[Linux-aus] The Ada Initiative - Should Linux Australia support it?
david at davidnewall.com
david at davidnewall.com
Thu Feb 24 13:19:49 EST 2011
Elliot Brennan:
> All things being equal, it is only reasonable to
> believe that women would be equally represented.
> As this appear not to be the case, then it speaks
> to itself that something is occurring which
> inhibits or restricts equality of opportunity and
> interest.
Might women just not enjoy computing? That's something which would inhibit them, but not a problem. Parity is not a requirement.
That alone is of concern to anyone who
> believes in equality of opportunity. There is no
> need to consider this bad. If one considers that
> women are statistically as smart as men, then the
> concern would be that a large group of highly
> intelligent people are unrepresented and that this
> is not in the best interests of the IT field.
>
> > Certainly we need no more
> > programmers of little ability who are only in it
> > for the money; not even if they are women.
> >
>
> Can't agree with you more.
>
> > I suspect that people with appropriate talent and
> > desire will find their way into the profession
> > regardless of encouragement.
>
> This would appear to not be the case. The dominant
> cultural values may well be changing. However this
> does not mean they are ineffective or irrelevant.
> There are multiple examples giving evidence to the
> existing biases, these include female-dominated
> industries which pay less when compared to
> male-dominated industries of similar
> skill/education levels and those areas in which
> skill and intelligence rather than physical
> prowess are required and yet there are few women -
> IT would appear to be one of them.
>
> The questions of 'why not?' is an obvious one and
> beliefs around what women will 'enjoy' or are
> attracted towards are evidence alone that there is
> a cultural bias. There is on evidence of a
> 'natural' inclination of such a high order as IT
> or Teaching.
>
> Without wishing to spend too long on the subject,
> cultural bias is not merely something one group
> imposes on another, but includes the
> internalisation of these biases by all groups. The
> internalisation and expression of cultural beliefs
> is one of the major mechanisms of the
> reproduction of these beliefs.
>
> People from a poor
> > socio-economic background might need a gentle
> > nudge but not, generally speaking, young 21st
> > century women. I'd rather see young people
> > encouraged into a healthy hacking culture,
> > regardless of sex, than to give scarce resources
> > to the purpose of attracting women who might
> > better enjoy working elsewhere.
>
> ...and here we have an example. It presupposes
> that women will enjoy working somewhere else. It
> also presupposes that women will be encouraged to
> enter a field they don't like - how many men does
> this happen to? People are usually attracted to
> what they believe best suits their internalised
> perception of an area they should work in. Few men
> become pole dancers.
>
> I do not say this > to pre-judge the Ada
> Initiative's outcomes, merely
> > to express a concern.
>
> Ditto.
>
> Though I would generally support those projects
> which aim to increase the population of those
> groups which are under-represented, as long as the
> money is well spent/gifted/donated etc, I'm not
> familiar enough with LA history or policies to
> express a view based on such.
>
> I agree that monies need to be spent wisely and
> that it should be clear what any money is spent on
> and why.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Patrick
>
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