[Linux-aus] The Ada Initiative - Should Linux Australia support it?
elliott-brennan
elliottbrennan at gmail.com
Tue Feb 22 11:47:20 EST 2011
I know too little of the Ada initiative to have a
strong opinion either way, other than that I
support mechanisms to improve the statistical
representation of all groups in any field of
endeavour, including the IT fields.
> David wrote
> Mon, 21 Feb 2011 21:18:45 +1030
>
> I'm generally opposed to discrimination <SNIP>...So called
> "affirmative action" policies fall clearly into
> this area in that, despite how they might be
> worded, they do seek to employ a minority even
> when a better candidate is on offer.
>
For the sake of clarity, there are significant
differences between the two.
The first is to ensure that the best candidate
receives the job by ensuring that irrelevant
issues are not considered during the job
interview. It is to ensure a 'level playing
field'. This includes such things as ensuring that
those who require wheelchair access are not
discriminated against because a company couldn't
be fussed to ensure it's office space was
appropriately designed.
'Affirmative Action' doesn't exist in Australia
(to my knowledge) and jobs are not offered to
'minorities' where a better candidate exists. The
policies you may be thinking of relate to
companies (most often Government - which I believe
is the employer with the best record of
non-discriminatory employment) creating programs
to assist disadvantaged groups to enter areas of
work not previously open to them (in practical
terms, rather than in lip service).
For instance, AREP (Aboriginal Rural Education
Program) students are provided access to tertiary
education without the requirement of proving
academic ability through an HSC result. They can
study externally, are provided extra mentoring and
can attend face-to-face block classes. A student
who has no ability will still fail. Those who have
the ability and interest will pass. AREP exists to
overcome the current and historical circumstances
which conspire to disadvantage Aboriginal people.
I would suggest that Aboriginal people are
statistically as intelligent as the rest of the
community but are under-represented in IT.
BTW I am not female, I am not Aboriginal. I'm your
standard white, English-speaking, Anglo-Irish,
middle-aged <cough>, hetero, married-with-children
male.
Thus none of this benefits me directly :))
<passes hat around in vain hope of money to feed
my children as I'm now looking to change jobs :))
> The Ada Initiative is different yet similar. It
> presupposes that there's something bad about the
> ratio of women to men in FOSS, a proposition I'm
> uncertain of as a person's sex is irrelevant.
All things being equal, it is only reasonable to
believe that women would be equally represented.
As this appear not to be the case, then it speaks
to itself that something is occurring which
inhibits or restricts equality of opportunity and
interest. That alone is of concern to anyone who
believes in equality of opportunity. There is no
need to consider this bad. If one considers that
women are statistically as smart as men, then the
concern would be that a large group of highly
intelligent people are unrepresented and that this
is not in the best interests of the IT field.
> Certainly we need no more
> programmers of little ability who are only in it
> for the money; not even if they are women.
>
Can't agree with you more.
> I suspect that people with appropriate talent and
> desire will find their way into the profession
> regardless of encouragement.
This would appear to not be the case. The dominant
cultural values may well be changing. However this
does not mean they are ineffective or irrelevant.
There are multiple examples giving evidence to the
existing biases, these include female-dominated
industries which pay less when compared to
male-dominated industries of similar
skill/education levels and those areas in which
skill and intelligence rather than physical
prowess are required and yet there are few women -
IT would appear to be one of them.
The questions of 'why not?' is an obvious one and
beliefs around what women will 'enjoy' or are
attracted towards are evidence alone that there is
a cultural bias. There is on evidence of a
'natural' inclination of such a high order as IT
or Teaching.
Without wishing to spend too long on the subject,
cultural bias is not merely something one group
imposes on another, but includes the
internalisation of these biases by all groups. The
internalisation and expression of cultural beliefs
is one of the major mechanisms of the
reproduction of these beliefs.
People from a poor
> socio-economic background might need a gentle
> nudge but not, generally speaking, young 21st
> century women. I'd rather see young people
> encouraged into a healthy hacking culture,
> regardless of sex, than to give scarce resources
> to the purpose of attracting women who might
> better enjoy working elsewhere.
...and here we have an example. It presupposes
that women will enjoy working somewhere else. It
also presupposes that women will be encouraged to
enter a field they don't like - how many men does
this happen to? People are usually attracted to
what they believe best suits their internalised
perception of an area they should work in. Few men
become pole dancers.
I do not say this > to pre-judge the Ada
Initiative's outcomes, merely
> to express a concern.
Ditto.
Though I would generally support those projects
which aim to increase the population of those
groups which are under-represented, as long as the
money is well spent/gifted/donated etc, I'm not
familiar enough with LA history or policies to
express a view based on such.
I agree that monies need to be spent wisely and
that it should be clear what any money is spent on
and why.
Regards,
Patrick
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