[Lias] Re: [qsite-lan_qsite_edu_au] Re: rpm error

[Paul Gear]

(Copying this to the LIAS list to see if anyone else can help us with
the general issue of Red Hat's failure to allow for us small folks in
their "brave new world".  Please don't use the "switch to Debian" (or
another community-supported distro) answer.  :-)

Simon Bryan wrote:
> Paul Gear said:
> 
>> Simon Bryan wrote:
>> 
>>> ... First of all 7.2 is pretty old, why not upgrade to at least
>>> 9? If upgrading or installing fresh select to install
>>> everything that way you don't have any dependency issues
>> 
>> I wouldn't be recommending to upgrade any Red Hat systems until
>> they come up with an appropriate product for us .edu types.  As
>> it stands, RHL9 reaches end-of-life in April, and there is no
>> product replacing it.  You can either switch to the free,
>> bleeding-edge Fedora Project, or pay $$$ for RHEL.  (See
>> http://fedora.redhat.com/about/rhel for details.)
> 
> 
> Can't agree totally here, RH9 is a good product for us and has
> proved to be reliable and stable.

I've been using RHL since 4.2.  I know how reliable and stable it is,
but that's not what i'm talking about.  I was saying i wouldn't be
recommending to *upgrade* any Red Hat systems due to the fact that
you'll have to do it again in less than 6 months due to the RHL9 EoL.

> I do know about the end-of-life of all RH products (I believe 7 has
>  already expired). From what I have read Fedora seems to be RH
> under another name, but then so is Mandrake in amny ways. I am
> considering the RHEL concept as the money managers are happier
> paying for support and updates than getting it for free!! 
> (Suspicous types).

Have you seen the pricing?  I just rang them, and got quoted the
following pricing (ex. tax.):

- Professional Workstation (12 month lifecycle, no guaranteed
updates): $99

- RHEL WS Standard Edition (5 year guaranteed updates, support
contract): $499

- RHEL ES Basic Edition (5 year guaranteed updates, RHN only): $545

They offer no educational discounts.  I don't know about you, but the
first would not be appropriate for our systems (due to the lack of
guaranteed security updates), and the next two are close to the cost
of our server hardware over a 4-year period.

>> I can't even get Red Hat sales to return my calls about what us 
>> .edu/.org types can do about things, since Fedora is not an 
>> appropriate product for most of us (due to the 4-6 month release 
>> lifespan), and RHEL is cost-prohibitive.
> 
> 
> Will start looking into this as well, I might have a contact who
> can lobby for us.

Hey - if you can get anywhere, i'm happy to jump on the lobbying
bandwagon.  Whenever i call, i keep getting this entry-level sales guy
who has no power to negotiate and no inclination to escalate.

> Not sure if you think this is too long or too short?

Too short.  Their RHEL and old RHL products were just about right.
See http://fedora.redhat.com/about/rhel.html and my whining about the
problem at
http://paulgear.webhop.net/the_page_formerly_known_as_rhel.html.

> I don't know what their update process is at the moment, but it
> can't be any worse than the endless updates and patches for
> windows, which in my opinion makes them a 'new release' every few
> days.

The above link shows a few details.  The frequency of updates has been
fine as far as i am concerned, and the process of applying them is
good.  The issue is that with Fedora, they are only going to support
updates for 2-3 months after the next product release.  Thus you are
left with an upgrade cycle of 6-9 months.  Too much work for me when i
support 11 servers and 3 workstations by myself (between work, home,
and my volunteer work).

> ... I am glad that others are working down similar paths to me,
> helps to have all this advice and experience made available.

At the moment, the "got no friends in Red Hat" path is a hard one to
work down, and one every .edu who has used RHL in the past will have
to work down.  ;-(

Paul
-- 
Paul Gear, Manager IT Operations
Redlands College, 38 Anson Road, Wellington Point 4160, 07 3286 0271
(Please send attachments in portable formats such as PDF, HTML, or
OpenOffice.)
-- 
Q: Why does this message show up as an attachment?
A: Because i use PGP/MIME to sign my messages, and Outlook Express 6
doesn't understand it.  Mozilla/Netscape, Eudora, and Pegasus work fine.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/lias/attachments/20031114/e4cf460a/attachment.pgp