From pip43211 at gmail.com Sun Jan 1 15:17:52 2023 From: pip43211 at gmail.com (phillip) Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2023 15:17:52 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] How the council breached their constitution - membersregister request section 7 In-Reply-To: <0ab2a394-048e-e715-fc4b-3771454c0a01@shirro.com> References: <61CA4839-38F3-4448-8E45-31D5B2273172@herstik.com> <2726158a-9747-436a-871d-903659894b5f@app.fastmail.com> <605614c8-cd8a-45a6-b385-c85d8af06092@app.fastmail.com> <198c649b-521e-7f49-f817-1a8fe3474729@kathyreid.id.au> <0ab2a394-048e-e715-fc4b-3771454c0a01@shirro.com> Message-ID: Perhaps, the constitution can be amended in such a way that analytics of membership can be made available on request, having the details of individual members revealed serves no purpose outside contact and demographics, why not replace it with data and a contact request service? On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 11:49 AM Paul Shirren via linux-aus < linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > Nothing much of value seems to be served by the current discussion. Can > people please avoid escalating the "discussion" by dragging in > completely unrelated issues and causes. > > Council has a mandate to serve the members interests and I believe most > people who contribute their time to serve do so selflessly and with > integrity and I thank them for their contributions. > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au > -- Phillip / Programmer pip43211 at gmail.com / N/A WormHoleStudios wormholestudios.com.au wormholestudios.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ambrose at vrvl.net Mon Jan 2 00:30:24 2023 From: ambrose at vrvl.net (Ambrose Andrews) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2023 00:30:24 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] How the council breached their constitution - membersregister request section 7 In-Reply-To: References: <61CA4839-38F3-4448-8E45-31D5B2273172@herstik.com> <2726158a-9747-436a-871d-903659894b5f@app.fastmail.com> <605614c8-cd8a-45a6-b385-c85d8af06092@app.fastmail.com> <198c649b-521e-7f49-f817-1a8fe3474729@kathyreid.id.au> <0ab2a394-048e-e715-fc4b-3771454c0a01@shirro.com> Message-ID: On 1/1/23 15:17, phillip via linux-aus wrote: > Perhaps, the constitution can be amended in such a way that analytics > of membership can be made available?on request, having the details of > individual?members revealed serves no?purpose outside contact and > demographics, why not replace it with data and a contact request service? I'm in favour of not putting additional detailed mandates for what the council must or might do in the constitution.? I'm in favour of not imposing lots of limitations on what council can agree to do if it wants to.? The problem with the current wording is that it might be able to used to limit the ability of council to act in the interests of members.? Putting specific ways the council *can* act in the interest of members in the constitution seems unnecessary and might imply that they can't do other unspecified things.? The main reason people seem to want details of members is not for data analytics, but to communicate with them.? There *might* be some argument for explicitly saying something about making available some avenue to communicate indirectly with members in some limited way (preferably compatible with protecting privacy and agency of members) without going into detail about the form. ? -AA. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wil at zeropointdevelopment.com Mon Jan 2 14:53:20 2023 From: wil at zeropointdevelopment.com (Wil Brown) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2023 14:53:20 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Constitutional background and towards a reformed constitution for Linux Australia In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi members, Regarding changes to the LA constitution, I propose we stay within the NSW Fair Trading Model Constitution document [1]. The NSW Fair Trading Model Constitution section 4, "Register of members", is the basis for the Linux Australia Constitution section 7 ", Register of members" [2]. Deviating too much from the model constitution will likely cause misinterpretation and open the floor to possible legal issues. The main issue our members must resolve is satisfying the purpose of obtaining member information and how that works with our privacy policy [3]. Our constitution S7(4) [4] states that a member can request "any" part of the register, whereas the model constitution S4(4) states that a member can request "a" part of the register. This word is crucial as in addition to name, postal address and joining date, the register *could *contain additional information, such as email address, phone number etc. I would suggest changing the wording in our constitution S7(4) [4] from "any" to "a", which will help council members vet the member data portion requested with the purpose of the request as outlined in S7(6) both parts (a) and (b) [5], and bring our constitution in line with the NSW Fair Trading model constitution. The purpose of using member data outlined in S7(6)(b) is clear and a compliance requirement. The purpose of using member data outlined in S7(6)(a) needs to be clarified. Using member data for postal newsletters and communications of member meetings and events seems reasonable. However, the phrase "or other material relating to the association" [6] is open for interpretation. Could I suggest that members debate what "other material relating to the association" is appropriate to communicate to a member via their personal data on the register, now and in the foreseeable future? Onboarding New Members: Something within our control and without having to change the constitution is ensuring that when new members register, they are sent links to the constitution and privacy policy. We could also clarify what data is stored, how members can request access, and for what purposes within the same onboarding message (once everything has been appropriately defined). In the same communication, we could ensure the member understands they can exercise their S7(5) [7] right to keep their data private and how to action that request. I welcome feedback and thoughts from our members on this topic. Wil. [1] https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/associations-and-co-operatives/associations/starting-an-association/model-constitution [2] https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/blob/master/constitution.txt#:~:text=7.%20Register%20of%20members [3] https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/blob/master/privacy_policy.md [4] https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/blob/master/constitution.txt#:~:text=of%20the%20association.-,(4),-A%20member%20of [5] https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/blob/master/constitution.txt#:~:text=available%20for%20inspection.-,(6),-A%20member%20must [6] https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/blob/master/constitution.txt#:~:text=or%20other%20material%20relating%20to%20the%20association [7] https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/blob/master/constitution.txt#:~:text=of%20the%20information.-,(5),-If%20a%20member On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 3:45 PM Kathy Reid wrote: > Thanks so much Wil and Jonathan - super helpful! > > We have a clear way forward for anyone wanting to contribute to changing > the Constitution :-) > > Best, Kathy > On 19/12/2022 12:10 pm, Wil Brown wrote: > > Thanks, Kathy > > Since the initial ask for members' information was requested, we (the > council) have discussed and noted that the current Constitution wording for > section seven, specifically subsections three and four, likely need to be > updated [1] to be 1) in line with changes to the NSW Fair Trading Act model > constitution, 2) set a realistic time for response, 3) clarity of what data > can be obtained, 4) what it can be used for and 5) how the constitution and > privacy policies work together. > > We also noted that the timeframe between the then council meeting (October > 26, 2022) and the upcoming AGM was unrealistic to discuss and implement the > changes. We will raise this as an issue for the 2023 LA Council to action. > > In the meantime, we welcome all members to contribute to the discussion on > this thread. > > Refs: > [1] > https://linux.org.au/council-meeting-26th-october-2022-minutes/#:~:text=Do%20we%20need%20to%20change%20the%20wording%20in%20the%20constitution%20S7(3)%20and%20S7(4)%20to%20explicitly%20state%20what%20register%20data%20a%20member%20can%20receive%20upon%20request%3F > > > Regards, > Wil. > > On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 11:02 AM Kathy Reid via linux-aus < > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > >> Hi folx, >> >> Firstly I hope that this note finds everyone safe, well and doing OK, >> after another challenging year on several fronts. >> >> Here, I'm weaving together several threads of discussion on the mailing >> list in an attempt to help the community forge a path ahead; this isn't >> Council endorsed - I'm doing this because I know how much Council has on >> at this time of year with end of year accounting, annual report and >> election preparation. They simply don't have time to get involved in >> discussions on list at the moment. So, I'm providing information that >> the community needs if they want to change the Constitution. I am going >> to remain neutral on whether the constitution *should* be changed - and >> limit the information here to the tools the community can use to >> *effect* change, if desired. >> >> CONSTITUTIONAL BACKGROUND >> >> Linux Australia is an incorporated association registered in the state >> of New South Wales. As such, the primary legislative authority is the >> Office of Fair Trading in NSW [1]. The primary underpinning legislation >> is the NSW Incorporated Associations Act 2009 (NSW) [2]. The >> legislation divides Associations into Tier 1 and Tier 2 organisations, >> depending on their size and assets. Linux Australia, due to its >> holdings, is a Tier 1 organisation. >> >> The Office of Fair Trading makes available a "model constitution" that >> associations can use as their association constitution - this gets >> updated from time to time, and was most recently updated earlier in the >> year [3]. For example, the new model constitution is more specific about >> elements such as the quorum required at general meetings. It provides an >> excellent basis for LA's constitution, but has had holes in it in the >> past. I haven't read the new one in depth, so cannot comment on it here. >> >> PREVIOUS CONSTITUTIONAL CHANGES >> >> Linux Australia has previously made constitutional changes, generally >> with the intent to come into compliance with the Act, or to remain >> compliant. Some of the organisational history here is before my time, >> but I've done my best to provide links to relevant changes. You'll note >> that community discussion on changes was, ah, equally vociferous. >> >> - In 2004, changes were made to allow the Secretary to approve >> memberships without needing approval by a Committee (Council) meeting >> (among others I think) [4] >> >> - In 2011, changes were made to align with the Act and I believe to move >> the financial year of the organisation to better align with conference >> financials [5] >> >> MAKING A CONSTITUTIONAL CHANGE >> >> In general, the Council has the power to make a constitutional change >> without consulting the membership. In practice, this has been discussed >> on this mailing list, and often put to a formal vote of members. For >> example, in 2017, a proposal to change the organisation's name was >> proposed (for transparency, by me in my capacity as then-President), and >> voted on as a motion at the upcoming AGM [6]. Once a decision has been >> arrived at, a member of the Council, or the organisation's public >> officer then contacts the Office of Fair Trading to update the >> Constitution. Fair Trading must agree to the change, and for this >> reason, Linux Australia will provide a rationale for the change - >> including, for example, results of a motion voted on at an AGM or SGM. >> >> MAKING CHANGE HAPPEN IN PRACTICE >> >> So, that's the *legislative* and *procedural* aspect of constitutional >> change for Linux Australia. In reality, the process of change often >> takes months of negotiation, discussion and debate on list. These >> discussions can get heated and occasionally, uncivil - so let's avoid >> that - but the energy here shows the passion that our membership has for >> creating structures that reflect our values and desired ways of working. >> >> WHAT NEXT? >> >> - If the community wishes to change the Constitution, you need to reach >> agreement on what you want to change it *to* >> >> - The Model Constitution is a good starting point. >> >> - In the past, GitHub has been used as a platform to transparently >> discuss and see changes and proposals - https://github.com/linuxaustralia >> . >> >> - When a loose consensus has been arrived at, the change is generally >> put up for voting on - at an AGM or SGM. They both have notice periods. >> >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Kathy Reid >> >> >> >> >> >> >> [1] >> >> https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/associations-and-co-operatives/associations >> >> [2] https://legislation.nsw.gov.au/view/html/inforce/current/act-2009-007 >> >> [3] >> >> https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/associations-and-co-operatives/associations/starting-an-association/model-constitution >> see also >> >> https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/word_doc/0018/1102491/Model-Constitution-for-Associations-2022-3.docx >> >> [4] 2004 - >> https://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2004-January/009490.html >> >> [5] 2011 - >> https://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2011-May/018832.html >> >> [6] >> https://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2017-December/023288.html >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> linux-aus mailing list >> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au >> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus >> >> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to >> linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au > > > > -- > Wil Brown > > *WordPress Consultant, Developer & Educator at **Zero Point Development > * > *Vice President of Linux Australia * > *WordPress Community Deputy* > > *m. 0423 526 829 <+61423526829> **w. zeropointdevelopment.com > > t. @WilBrown_AU LIn. LinkedIn > * > > *Get my FREE business courses . > ???* > > *Join me at WordPress Sydney > and Elementor > Sydney * > > > Wil Brown > about.me/wil_brown > > > -- Wil Brown *WordPress Consultant, Developer & Educator at **Zero Point Development * *Vice President of Linux Australia * *WordPress Community Deputy* *m. 0423 526 829 <+61423526829> **w. zeropointdevelopment.com t. @WilBrown_AU LIn. LinkedIn * *Get my FREE business courses . ???* *Join me at WordPress Sydney and Elementor Sydney * Wil Brown about.me/wil_brown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From simon at simotek.net Mon Jan 2 16:40:49 2023 From: simon at simotek.net (Simon Lees) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2023 16:10:49 +1030 Subject: [Linux-aus] Constitutional background and towards a reformed constitution for Linux Australia In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2f0a384e-1f3b-3860-f3ed-2abc8dd40180@simotek.net> On 1/2/23 14:23, Wil Brown via linux-aus wrote: > Hi members, > > Regarding changes to the LA constitution, I propose we stay within the > NSW Fair Trading Model Constitution document [1]. > > The NSW Fair Trading Model Constitution section 4, "Register of > members", is the basis for the Linux Australia Constitution section 7 ", > Register of members" [2]. > > Deviating too much from the model constitution will likely cause > misinterpretation and open the floor to possible legal issues. This also sounds reasonable to me. > The main issue our members must resolve is satisfying the purpose of > obtaining member information and how that works with our privacy policy [3]. > > Our constitution S7(4) [4] states that a member can request "any" part > of the register, whereas the model constitution S4(4) states that a > member can request "a" part of the register.? This word is crucial as in > addition to name, postal address and joining date, the register /could > /contain additional information, such as email address, phone number etc. > > I would suggest changing the wording in our constitution S7(4) [4] from > "any" to "a", which will help council members vet the member data > portion requested with the purpose of the request as outlined in S7(6) > both parts (a) and (b) [5], and bring our constitution in line with the > NSW Fair Trading model constitution. > > The purpose of using member data outlined in S7(6)(b) is clear and a > compliance requirement. > > The purpose of using member data outlined in S7(6)(a) needs to be > clarified.? Using member data for postal newsletters and communications > of member meetings and events seems reasonable.? However, the phrase "or > other material relating to the association" [6] is open for interpretation. > > Could I suggest that members debate what "other material relating to the > association" is appropriate to communicate to a member via their > personal data on the register, now and in the foreseeable future? From a quick read of the constitution I can see a couple of areas that may be impacted which illustrate why this may be important. Reason One: In Section 25 Members may call for a special general meeting but as outlined below the amount of paperwork to do such would require some level of coordination 25. Special general meetings ? calling of ... (2) The committee must, on the requisition in writing of at least 5 per cent of the total number of members or 20 members, whichever number is fewer, convene a special general meeting of the association. (a) must state the purpose or purposes of the meeting, and (b) must be signed by the members making the requisition, and (c) must be lodged with the secretary, and (d) may consist of several documents in a similar form, each signed by one or more of the members making the requisition. Further in Section 19 a member of the committee may be removed in a general meeting 19. Removal of committee members (1) The association in general meeting may by resolution remove any member of the committee from the office of member before the expiration of the member?s term of office and may by resolution appoint another person to hold office until the expiration of the term of office of the member so removed. So it seems like a somewhat sensible safeguard that if a group of members believe that say the secretary (or another member) has behaved inappropriately that they may want to discuss with other members the possibility of calling for a SGM without stating the reason. As an individual or group of individuals may not have decided whether they actually want to go ahead with calling a meeting i'm unsure if this case fits within the current reasoning. But I believe that its important for the balance of any constitution even if in the past its caused me many "headaches" when being on the board of community projects (People can ask me about that off list if they really feel like it, its off topic here). It would be possible to retain such a safeguard by providing a way for a member to contact all other members without giving direct access to personal information, however if this approach was to be taken I believe the constitution should be updated to ensure it remains. Reason Two: This is a somewhat strange one for an open source community and maybe points to another section of the constitution that we should consider changing. 10. Resolution of disputes (1) A dispute between a member and another member (in their capacity as members) of the association, or a dispute between a member or members and the association, are to be referred to a community justice centre for mediation under the Community Justice Centres Act 1983. (2) If a dispute is not resolved by mediation within 3 months of the referral to a community justice centre, the dispute is to be referred to arbitration. (3) The Commercial Arbitration Act 1984 applies to any such dispute referred to arbitration. I am not familiar with NSW law and whether the Act listed above gives a Community Justice Centre the legal right to request a members personal details in this case or whether this would be a case that would need to fall under the "other material relating to the association". Having just re read the relevant part of the constitution there is a section (b) "any other purpose necessary to comply with a requirement of the Act or the Regulation." Which covers this but i'll leave this reason because I think there is stuff in the below paragraph worth still discussing here. As someone who has been involved in the openSUSE Board, its constitution the first point for conflict resolutions between members should be the the Board, having looked at this in the past I know many open source projects either use there equivelent Board / Council or either a subcommittee or a separate internal body to deal with such situations. Given the constitution already gives the committee the power to discipline members (Section 11) maybe in the case of an organisation such as Linux Australia it makes more sense for such disputes to be handled by the committee or a subcommittee as a first point of call with the ability for them to refer it further if required. This is one part of the constitution that I think probably makes more sense for local bowling clubs etc then it does for Linux Australia which is essentially an international organisation. Reason Three: I'm less sure that this is necessarily a reason that needs to be listed in the constitution but the fact its there means we don't really need to think about it. As far as I can tell the constitution doesn't list anywhere else what the committee and or any sub committees can equally do with the membership data. Other then that they are members and as such can request it. Without the clause as currently written if say Linux Australia created a sub committee to review a certain topic and say this subcommittee was made up of non regular committee members, it isn't immediately obvious under current or maybe future privacy laws whether a member of such a sub committee or even a member of the current committee could use that membership information to send out a questionnaire or survey related to there review. It would be reasonably simple to address this should that section be removed by adding a line saying that the committee may approve use of the data for sending other material relating to the association if it is deemed reasonable. (Not in those exact words but that idea worded in a way that ties in with the rest of the constitution). Thanks Simon Lees > On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 3:45 PM Kathy Reid > wrote: > > Thanks so much Wil and Jonathan - super helpful! > > We have a clear way forward for anyone wanting to contribute to > changing the Constitution :-) > > Best, Kathy > > On 19/12/2022 12:10 pm, Wil Brown wrote: >> Thanks, Kathy >> >> Since the initial ask for members'?information was requested, we >> (the council) have discussed and noted that the current >> Constitution wording for section seven, specifically subsections >> three and?four, likely need to be updated [1] to be 1) in line >> with changes to the NSW Fair Trading Act model constitution, 2) >> set a realistic time for response, 3) clarity of what data can be >> obtained, 4) what it can be used for and 5) how the constitution >> and privacy policies work together. >> >> We also noted that the timeframe between the then?council meeting >> (October 26, 2022) and the upcoming AGM was unrealistic?to discuss >> and implement the changes.? We will raise this as an issue for the >> 2023 LA Council to action. >> >> In the meantime, we welcome all members to contribute to the >> discussion on this thread. >> >> Refs: >> [1] >> https://linux.org.au/council-meeting-26th-october-2022-minutes/#:~:text=Do%20we%20need%20to%20change%20the%20wording%20in%20the%20constitution%20S7(3)%20and%20S7(4)%20to%20explicitly%20state%20what%20register%20data%20a%20member%20can%20receive%20upon%20request%3F >> >> Regards, >> Wil. >> >> On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 11:02 AM Kathy Reid via linux-aus >> > > wrote: >> >> Hi folx, >> >> Firstly I hope that this note finds everyone safe, well and >> doing OK, >> after another challenging year on several fronts. >> >> Here, I'm weaving together several threads of discussion on >> the mailing >> list in an attempt to help the community forge a path ahead; >> this isn't >> Council endorsed - I'm doing this because I know how much >> Council has on >> at this time of year with end of year accounting, annual >> report and >> election preparation. They simply don't have time to get >> involved in >> discussions on list at the moment. So, I'm providing >> information that >> the community needs if they want to change the Constitution. I >> am going >> to remain neutral on whether the constitution *should* be >> changed - and >> limit the information here to the tools the community can use to >> *effect* change, if desired. >> >> CONSTITUTIONAL BACKGROUND >> >> Linux Australia is an incorporated association registered in >> the state >> of New South Wales. As such, the primary legislative authority >> is the >> Office of Fair Trading in NSW [1]. The primary underpinning >> legislation >> is the NSW Incorporated Associations Act 2009 (NSW) [2].? The >> legislation divides Associations into Tier 1 and Tier 2 >> organisations, >> depending on their size and assets. Linux Australia, due to its >> holdings, is a Tier 1 organisation. >> >> The Office of Fair Trading makes available a "model >> constitution" that >> associations can use as their association constitution - this >> gets >> updated from time to time, and was most recently updated >> earlier in the >> year [3]. For example, the new model constitution is more >> specific about >> elements such as the quorum required at general meetings. It >> provides an >> excellent basis for LA's constitution, but has had holes in it >> in the >> past. I haven't read the new one in depth, so cannot comment >> on it here. >> >> PREVIOUS CONSTITUTIONAL CHANGES >> >> Linux Australia has previously made constitutional changes, >> generally >> with the intent to come into compliance with the Act, or to >> remain >> compliant. Some of the organisational history here is before >> my time, >> but I've done my best to provide links to relevant changes. >> You'll note >> that community discussion on changes was, ah, equally vociferous. >> >> - In 2004, changes were made to allow the Secretary to approve >> memberships without needing approval by a Committee (Council) >> meeting >> (among others I think) [4] >> >> - In 2011, changes were made to align with the Act and I >> believe to move >> the financial year of the organisation to better align with >> conference >> financials [5] >> >> MAKING A CONSTITUTIONAL CHANGE >> >> In general, the Council has the power to make a constitutional >> change >> without consulting the membership. In practice, this has been >> discussed >> on this mailing list, and often put to a formal vote of >> members. For >> example, in 2017, a proposal to change the organisation's name >> was >> proposed (for transparency, by me in my capacity as >> then-President), and >> voted on as a motion at the upcoming AGM [6]. Once a decision >> has been >> arrived at, a member of the Council, or the organisation's public >> officer then contacts the Office of Fair Trading to update the >> Constitution. Fair Trading must agree to the change, and for this >> reason, Linux Australia will provide a rationale for the change - >> including, for example, results of a motion voted on at an AGM >> or SGM. >> >> MAKING CHANGE HAPPEN IN PRACTICE >> >> So, that's the *legislative* and *procedural* aspect of >> constitutional >> change for Linux Australia. In reality, the process of change >> often >> takes months of negotiation, discussion and debate on list. These >> discussions can get heated and occasionally, uncivil - so >> let's avoid >> that - but the energy here shows the passion that our >> membership has for >> creating structures that reflect our values and desired ways >> of working. >> >> WHAT NEXT? >> >> - If the community wishes to change the Constitution, you need >> to reach >> agreement on what you want to change it *to* >> >> - The Model Constitution is a good starting point. >> >> - In the past, GitHub has been used as a platform to >> transparently >> discuss and see changes and proposals - >> https://github.com/linuxaustralia >> . >> >> - When a loose consensus has been arrived at, the change is >> generally >> put up for voting on - at an AGM or SGM. They both have notice >> periods. >> >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Kathy Reid >> >> >> >> >> >> >> [1] >> https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/associations-and-co-operatives/associations >> >> [2] >> https://legislation.nsw.gov.au/view/html/inforce/current/act-2009-007 >> >> [3] >> https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/associations-and-co-operatives/associations/starting-an-association/model-constitution >> see also >> https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/word_doc/0018/1102491/Model-Constitution-for-Associations-2022-3.docx >> >> [4] 2004 - >> https://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2004-January/009490.html >> >> [5] 2011 - >> https://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2011-May/018832.html >> >> [6] >> https://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2017-December/023288.html >> > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au From miles at m0les.com Tue Jan 3 11:21:15 2023 From: miles at m0les.com (Miles Goodhew) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2023 11:21:15 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Reminder: 2023 Council Election Notice to Members In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all! PSA/reminder: The Linux Australia call for council position nominations closes THIS Saturday, 7-Jan. If you're a Linux Australia member and want to make a difference, please consider nominating for a position. While it's not zero work and there can challenging decisions to make, it is a rewarding experience. Also, nomination is a 3-step process: 1. Nominate (yourself or someone else). 2. Second the nomination (I'm happy to do it if you can point to some indication of your good intent). 3. ACCEPT nomination (Only nominees who accept their nominations will be up for election). Log in to https://linux.org.au and go to "MEMBER AREA" -> "Elections" for all the details. On Thu, 29 Dec 2022, at 22:21, Linux Australia Secretary wrote: > Dear Linux Australia Community, > > > Pursuant to clause (15) of the Linux Australia constitution [1] we > > hereby declare an election open and call for nominations to the Linux > > Australia Council for the term January 2023 to January 2024. > > > All office bearer and ordinary committee member positions are open for > > election. > > > * Nominations are open from 29 December 2022 and run > > until 11:59pm 7 January 2023 (AEDT). > > * Voting will open 00:01am 8 January 2023 (AEDT) and run until > > 11:59pm 17 January 2022 (AEDT). > > * Results will be available from 18 January 2023. > > * Results will be ratified during the Annual General Meeting (AGM) > to be held on Saturday 21 January 2023. > > > To view and participate in the election please visit > > _https://www.linux.org.au/_ > > * Click on ?Login? located on the top right hand side of the page and > > log in. > > * Click on ?Elections?. > > * Under ?Linux Australia Council Elections 2023?, click on ?View & > > Submit Nominations?. > > > ## What do I need to do? > > > First of all, make sure your details are correct at Linux Australia?s > > website [2]. If you need assistance accessing the membership portal > > please contact secretary at linux.org.au. Note that in line with common > > election conventions, new membership requests are not processed during > > the election period. > > > If you wish to nominate yourself, identify the positions you wish to > > nominate for and get an understanding of what each position involves. > > Think about what you might bring to the role and prepare a short pitch. > > Then, accept the nomination you've been given by clicking the 'Accept > > nomination' link. > > > *You must accept your nomination to move to the next stage of the > > election process* > > > Please note that all people elected to a position on the Council > > must provide their current residential address, as per requirements > > for NSW incorporated associations. > > > As Linux Australia has an Australian Registered Body Number (ARBN) > > it is required that people obtain a Director identification number (director ID) > > before assuming a Council position [3]. We strongly recommend people apply > > online as soon as their nomination is successful, so that they have their > > Director ID by the AGM and can assume their positions immediately. > > > If you wish to nominate another person for a position, you may wish to > > contact them first and have a chat to make sure they're happy being > > nominated. Then follow the 'Nominate' link to nominate them. > > > Once voting is open, you will be able to vote for candidates. Results > > will be announced at the Linux Australia AGM to be held on 21 January 2023. > > > ## Why should I nominate? > > > Being a member of Linux Australia Council is a fun way to meet new > > people, work on exciting projects and expand your skill base. It gives > > you excellent transferable skills to help build your career, and allows > > you to grow your professional network. It looks great on a CV, and is > > also a chance to give back to the vibrant Linux and open source > > ecosystem in Australia and globally. If you're passionate about open > > technologies and the communities that surround them, it's a great > > opportunity to help drive and steer Australia's contribution in this field. > > > ## What is the commitment required? > > > If you are contemplating nominating for a role on Council, in addition > > to referring to the Position Descriptions provided [4], you are strongly > > encouraged to approach current and former Council members for their > > perspective. You will find them, to a person, willing to discuss the > > roles and responsibilities in a more informal manner. > > > The roles do require a time commitment. > > * Ordinary Council Member: a minimum of 2-3 hours per week. > > * Office bearers: 8-12 hours per week. > > Please allow for this when considering your nomination. > > > ## Why should I run? > > > If you?ve been nominated, or are thinking of nominating yourself, you > > should give the opportunity serious consideration. Being on the Council > > is both hard and often thankless work, but it is also incredibly > > rewarding. Linux Australia can only achieve what it does by its members > > and helping out with the Council responsibilities is a great way to > > ensure Linux Australia continues to be successful. It is also an > > opportunity to help the organisation grow, reach into new areas and to > > succeed on important topics of national relevance. > > > As always, your feedback and questions are warmly welcomed. If you'd > > like to have a chat with anyone on Council around what it involves, > > please reach out. > > > Kind regards, > > > Clinton Roy > > Secretary, > > Linux Australia > > > [1] _http://www.linux.org.au/constitution_ > > [2] _http://www.linux.org.au/membership_ > > [3] _https://www.abrs.gov.au/director-identification-number_ > > [4] _https://github.com/linuxaustralia/position-descriptions_ > > > > > -- > Linux Australia Secretary > linux.org.au > Providing the logistical, financial and legal framework for Open Source events > _______________________________________________ > announce mailing list > announce at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/announce > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bronwyn at mazeevents.com Tue Jan 3 12:07:28 2023 From: bronwyn at mazeevents.com (Bronwyn Wilcox) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2023 01:07:28 +0000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Reminder: 2023 Council Election Notice to Members In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, Would you please remove me from this mailing list. Many thanks Bronwyn Bronwyn Wilcox Director Maze Events Mb: 0451118651 On 3 Jan 2023, at 11:21, Miles Goodhew via linux-aus wrote: ? Hi all! PSA/reminder: The Linux Australia call for council position nominations closes THIS Saturday, 7-Jan. If you're a Linux Australia member and want to make a difference, please consider nominating for a position. While it's not zero work and there can challenging decisions to make, it is a rewarding experience. Also, nomination is a 3-step process: 1. Nominate (yourself or someone else). 2. Second the nomination (I'm happy to do it if you can point to some indication of your good intent). 3. ACCEPT nomination (Only nominees who accept their nominations will be up for election). Log in to https://linux.org.au and go to "MEMBER AREA" -> "Elections" for all the details. On Thu, 29 Dec 2022, at 22:21, Linux Australia Secretary wrote: Dear Linux Australia Community, Pursuant to clause (15) of the Linux Australia constitution [1] we hereby declare an election open and call for nominations to the Linux Australia Council for the term January 2023 to January 2024. All office bearer and ordinary committee member positions are open for election. * Nominations are open from 29 December 2022 and run until 11:59pm 7 January 2023 (AEDT). * Voting will open 00:01am 8 January 2023 (AEDT) and run until 11:59pm 17 January 2022 (AEDT). * Results will be available from 18 January 2023. * Results will be ratified during the Annual General Meeting (AGM) to be held on Saturday 21 January 2023. To view and participate in the election please visit https://www.linux.org.au/ * Click on ?Login? located on the top right hand side of the page and log in. * Click on ?Elections?. * Under ?Linux Australia Council Elections 2023?, click on ?View & Submit Nominations?. ## What do I need to do? First of all, make sure your details are correct at Linux Australia?s website [2]. If you need assistance accessing the membership portal please contact secretary at linux.org.au. Note that in line with common election conventions, new membership requests are not processed during the election period. If you wish to nominate yourself, identify the positions you wish to nominate for and get an understanding of what each position involves. Think about what you might bring to the role and prepare a short pitch. Then, accept the nomination you've been given by clicking the 'Accept nomination' link. *You must accept your nomination to move to the next stage of the election process* Please note that all people elected to a position on the Council must provide their current residential address, as per requirements for NSW incorporated associations. As Linux Australia has an Australian Registered Body Number (ARBN) it is required that people obtain a Director identification number (director ID) before assuming a Council position [3]. We strongly recommend people apply online as soon as their nomination is successful, so that they have their Director ID by the AGM and can assume their positions immediately. If you wish to nominate another person for a position, you may wish to contact them first and have a chat to make sure they're happy being nominated. Then follow the 'Nominate' link to nominate them. Once voting is open, you will be able to vote for candidates. Results will be announced at the Linux Australia AGM to be held on 21 January 2023. ## Why should I nominate? Being a member of Linux Australia Council is a fun way to meet new people, work on exciting projects and expand your skill base. It gives you excellent transferable skills to help build your career, and allows you to grow your professional network. It looks great on a CV, and is also a chance to give back to the vibrant Linux and open source ecosystem in Australia and globally. If you're passionate about open technologies and the communities that surround them, it's a great opportunity to help drive and steer Australia's contribution in this field. ## What is the commitment required? If you are contemplating nominating for a role on Council, in addition to referring to the Position Descriptions provided [4], you are strongly encouraged to approach current and former Council members for their perspective. You will find them, to a person, willing to discuss the roles and responsibilities in a more informal manner. The roles do require a time commitment. * Ordinary Council Member: a minimum of 2-3 hours per week. * Office bearers: 8-12 hours per week. Please allow for this when considering your nomination. ## Why should I run? If you?ve been nominated, or are thinking of nominating yourself, you should give the opportunity serious consideration. Being on the Council is both hard and often thankless work, but it is also incredibly rewarding. Linux Australia can only achieve what it does by its members and helping out with the Council responsibilities is a great way to ensure Linux Australia continues to be successful. It is also an opportunity to help the organisation grow, reach into new areas and to succeed on important topics of national relevance. As always, your feedback and questions are warmly welcomed. If you'd like to have a chat with anyone on Council around what it involves, please reach out. Kind regards, Clinton Roy Secretary, Linux Australia [1] http://www.linux.org.au/constitution [2] http://www.linux.org.au/membership [3] https://www.abrs.gov.au/director-identification-number [4] https://github.com/linuxaustralia/position-descriptions -- Linux Australia Secretary linux.org.au Providing the logistical, financial and legal framework for Open Source events _______________________________________________ announce mailing list announce at lists.linux.org.au http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/announce _______________________________________________ linux-aus mailing list linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From geekscape at gmail.com Tue Jan 3 13:55:23 2023 From: geekscape at gmail.com (Andy Gelme) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2023 13:55:23 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Open Hardware 2022 project delivery plan --> Everything Open conference March 2023 Message-ID: <95c3787a-ae8b-001a-8e44-b20764fdfb74@gmail.com> To everyone who has been patiently waiting ...For the OHMC 2022 project, the SwagBadge and Rockling hardware have been assembled and we have firmware to test most of the functionality. There is additional work to be completed before we can fully test the audio chip on the Rockling. We have an FPGA gateware bootloader running on the Rockling and the application can be updated via USB from a host computer, e.g laptop. On-going development of the firmware and gateware will continue leading up-to Everything Open 2023 in-the-open with updates on GitHub / OHMC Wiki.? The SwagBadge is ready for anyone with microPython on ESP32 experience.? Whilst the Rockling FPGA in its current state requires FPGA expertise (similar to using a FOMU).? If you have FPGA experience and want to help with on-going development we can send the hardware to you from early January. Otherwise the SwagBadge 2022 and Rockling SAO will be ready for you at Everything Open 2023 or can be shipped to you at that time.On the Monday immediately prior to Everything Open 2023, the OHMC team will hold an all day workshop for the OHMC 2022 hardware.? The morning session will be based on prepared material about the hardware, the software, how to develop on and use your SwagBadge / Rockling FPGA.? The afternoon session will be open ended supporting development using your new kit.? This workshop will be held at the Melbourne HackerSpace (CCHS). Also on that Monday, from late afternoon an Everything Open social event (all welcome) will be held at the HackerSpace and potentially overflowing on to the nearby Hawthorn Hotel into the evening. Note: Monday, 13th March 2023 is a public holiday in Victoria, A.C.T, S.A and Tasmania Please bring your SwagBadge 2021 along to Everything Open, because it is largely compatible with SwagBadge 2022, especially regarding microPython, ESP32 and the Simple-Add-On (SAO) boards. *To help us plan and complete the delivery of this project, if you HAVE previously registered and paid for this hardware at LCA2022, please complete the following survey, which enables you to select delivery options, workshop attendance, etc. If you HAVE NOT previously registered for this hardware and are interested in acquiring a spare kit (should some become available), you can also indicate your interest with this form. ****https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1XxxYti2rxYYmd5JR9wf2oQddNSc-K6iJa4PmApPLfc0/edit*** regards Andy and Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marcus at herstik.com Wed Jan 4 09:41:01 2023 From: marcus at herstik.com (Marcus Herstik) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2023 22:41:01 +0000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Constitutional background and towards a reformed constitution for Linux Australia In-Reply-To: <2f0a384e-1f3b-3860-f3ed-2abc8dd40180@simotek.net> References: <2f0a384e-1f3b-3860-f3ed-2abc8dd40180@simotek.net> Message-ID: <25B13013-A658-4571-83CC-476E2EB158C9@herstik.com> I have a small comment or 2 below, but the general consensus from the boards and committees I have been on before is that the constitution should allow the leaders to act while ensuring accountability and transparency to the constituents that make up the organisation. If the members have issues there must always be a way to organise and remove members. > > On 2 Jan 2023, at 5:41 am, Simon Lees via linux-aus wrote: > > ? > >> On 1/2/23 14:23, Wil Brown via linux-aus wrote: >> Hi members, >> Regarding changes to the LA constitution, I propose we stay within the NSW Fair Trading Model Constitution document [1]. >> The NSW Fair Trading Model Constitution section 4, "Register of members", is the basis for the Linux Australia Constitution section 7 ", Register of members" [2]. >> Deviating too much from the model constitution will likely cause misinterpretation and open the floor to possible legal issues. > > This also sounds reasonable to me. Definitely best practice to stay as close as possible without good reasons to deviate. >> The main issue our members must resolve is satisfying the purpose of obtaining member information and how that works with our privacy policy [3]. >> Our constitution S7(4) [4] states that a member can request "any" part of the register, whereas the model constitution S4(4) states that a member can request "a" part of the register. This word is crucial as in addition to name, postal address and joining date, the register /could /contain additional information, such as email address, phone number etc. >> I would suggest changing the wording in our constitution S7(4) [4] from "any" to "a", which will help council members vet the member data portion requested with the purpose of the request as outlined in S7(6) both parts (a) and (b) [5], and bring our constitution in line with the NSW Fair Trading model constitution. >> The purpose of using member data outlined in S7(6)(b) is clear and a compliance requirement. >> The purpose of using member data outlined in S7(6)(a) needs to be clarified. Using member data for postal newsletters and communications of member meetings and events seems reasonable. However, the phrase "or other material relating to the association" [6] is open for interpretation. >> Could I suggest that members debate what "other material relating to the association" is appropriate to communicate to a member via their personal data on the register, now and in the foreseeable future? > > From a quick read of the constitution I can see a couple of areas that may be impacted which illustrate why this may be important. > > Reason One: > > In Section 25 Members may call for a special general meeting but as outlined below the amount of paperwork to do such would require some level of coordination > > 25. Special general meetings ? calling of > ... > (2) The committee must, on the requisition in writing of at least 5 per cent of the total number of members or 20 members, whichever number is fewer, convene a special general meeting of the association. > (a) must state the purpose or purposes of the meeting, and > (b) must be signed by the members making the requisition, and > (c) must be lodged with the secretary, and > (d) may consist of several documents in a similar form, each signed by one or more of the members making the requisition. > > Further in Section 19 a member of the committee may be removed in a general meeting > 19. Removal of committee members > (1) The association in general meeting may by resolution remove any member of the committee from the office of member before the expiration of the member?s term of office and may by resolution appoint another person to hold office until the expiration of the term of office of the member so removed. > > So it seems like a somewhat sensible safeguard that if a group of members believe that say the secretary (or another member) has behaved inappropriately that they may want to discuss with other members the possibility of calling for a SGM without stating the reason. As an individual or group of individuals may not have decided whether they actually want to go ahead with calling a meeting i'm unsure if this case fits within the current reasoning. But I believe that its important for the balance of any constitution even if in the past its caused me many "headaches" when being on the board of community projects (People can ask me about that off list if they really feel like it, its off topic here). > > It would be possible to retain such a safeguard by providing a way for a member to contact all other members without giving direct access to personal information, however if this approach was to be taken I believe the constitution should be updated to ensure it remains. This must remain to ensure integrity of the organisation or we risk what happened with the ACS. > > Reason Two: > This is a somewhat strange one for an open source community and maybe points to another section of the constitution that we should consider changing. > > 10. Resolution of disputes > (1) A dispute between a member and another member (in their capacity as members) of the association, or a dispute between a member or members and the association, are to be referred to a community justice centre for mediation under the Community Justice Centres Act 1983. > (2) If a dispute is not resolved by mediation within 3 months of the referral to a community justice centre, the dispute is to be referred to arbitration. > (3) The Commercial Arbitration Act 1984 applies to any such dispute referred to arbitration. > I am not familiar with NSW law and whether the Act listed above gives a Community Justice Centre the legal right to request a members personal details in this case or whether this would be a case that would need to fall under the "other material relating to the association". Having just re read the relevant part of the constitution there is a section (b) "any other purpose necessary to comply with a requirement of the Act or the Regulation." Which covers this but i'll leave this reason because I think there is stuff in the below paragraph worth still discussing here. So far I have not been contacted by anyone on council regarding resolving my dispute. > > As someone who has been involved in the openSUSE Board, its constitution the first point for conflict resolutions between members should be the the Board, having looked at this in the past I know many open source projects either use there equivelent Board / Council or either a subcommittee or a separate internal body to deal with such situations. Given the constitution already gives the committee the power to discipline members (Section 11) maybe in the case of an organisation such as Linux Australia it makes more sense for such disputes to be handled by the committee or a subcommittee as a first point of call with the ability for them to refer it further if required. This is one part of the constitution that I think probably makes more sense for local bowling clubs etc then it does for Linux Australia which is essentially an international organisation. While I agree it?s a weird process, especially for a national organisation, it needs to be able to be escalated as well. Most organisations have a stated jurisdiction, and therefore NSW is fine for that. However, having a justice centre be the arbiter is likely a waste of their time in the first instance. The legal fraternity takes a dim view of organisations wasting their time with minor disputes, especially if they can be dealt with internally. > > Reason Three: > I'm less sure that this is necessarily a reason that needs to be listed in the constitution but the fact its there means we don't really need to think about it. > > As far as I can tell the constitution doesn't list anywhere else what the committee and or any sub committees can equally do with the membership data. Other than that they are members and as such can request it. We are all equal members, some just have more responsibilities than others. We should also consider incorporating if we aren?t already. If I am not on the council after election they should talk to a lawyer as to why. > Without the clause as currently written if say Linux Australia created a sub committee to review a certain topic and say this subcommittee was made up of non regular committee members, it isn't immediately obvious under current or maybe future privacy laws whether a member of such a sub committee or even a member of the current committee could use that membership information to send out a questionnaire or survey related to there review. > Members of the org can ask for membership information - there is no restriction on the constitution as to reasoning. Therefore, if they are a sub-committee they can request it from the secretary and get it. Use is covered by disciplinary actions available. > It would be reasonably simple to address this should that section be removed by adding a line saying that the committee may approve use of the data for sending other material relating to the association if it is deemed reasonable. (Not in those exact words but that idea worded in a way that ties in with the rest of the constitution). > While I don?t think you envisage it being abused, it must never be up to be leadership to approve or deny the ability of its members to discuss things. Especially as it can be used to limit discussion of issues with the leadership or the organisation?s direction. > Thanks > > Simon Lees > >> On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 3:45 PM Kathy Reid > wrote: >> Thanks so much Wil and Jonathan - super helpful! >> We have a clear way forward for anyone wanting to contribute to >> changing the Constitution :-) >> Best, Kathy >>> On 19/12/2022 12:10 pm, Wil Brown wrote: >>> Thanks, Kathy >>> Since the initial ask for members' information was requested, we >>> (the council) have discussed and noted that the current >>> Constitution wording for section seven, specifically subsections >>> three and four, likely need to be updated [1] to be 1) in line >>> with changes to the NSW Fair Trading Act model constitution, 2) >>> set a realistic time for response, 3) clarity of what data can be >>> obtained, 4) what it can be used for and 5) how the constitution >>> and privacy policies work together. >>> We also noted that the timeframe between the then council meeting >>> (October 26, 2022) and the upcoming AGM was unrealistic to discuss >>> and implement the changes. We will raise this as an issue for the >>> 2023 LA Council to action. >>> In the meantime, we welcome all members to contribute to the >>> discussion on this thread. >>> Refs: >>> [1] >>> https://linux.org.au/council-meeting-26th-october-2022-minutes/#:~:text=Do%20we%20need%20to%20change%20the%20wording%20in%20the%20constitution%20S7(3)%20and%20S7(4)%20to%20explicitly%20state%20what%20register%20data%20a%20member%20can%20receive%20upon%20request%3F >>> Regards, >>> Wil. >>> On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 11:02 AM Kathy Reid via linux-aus >>> >> > wrote: >>> Hi folx, >>> Firstly I hope that this note finds everyone safe, well and >>> doing OK, >>> after another challenging year on several fronts. >>> Here, I'm weaving together several threads of discussion on >>> the mailing >>> list in an attempt to help the community forge a path ahead; >>> this isn't >>> Council endorsed - I'm doing this because I know how much >>> Council has on >>> at this time of year with end of year accounting, annual >>> report and >>> election preparation. They simply don't have time to get >>> involved in >>> discussions on list at the moment. So, I'm providing >>> information that >>> the community needs if they want to change the Constitution. I >>> am going >>> to remain neutral on whether the constitution *should* be >>> changed - and >>> limit the information here to the tools the community can use to >>> *effect* change, if desired. >>> CONSTITUTIONAL BACKGROUND >>> Linux Australia is an incorporated association registered in >>> the state >>> of New South Wales. As such, the primary legislative authority >>> is the >>> Office of Fair Trading in NSW [1]. The primary underpinning >>> legislation >>> is the NSW Incorporated Associations Act 2009 (NSW) [2]. The >>> legislation divides Associations into Tier 1 and Tier 2 >>> organisations, >>> depending on their size and assets. Linux Australia, due to its >>> holdings, is a Tier 1 organisation. >>> The Office of Fair Trading makes available a "model >>> constitution" that >>> associations can use as their association constitution - this >>> gets >>> updated from time to time, and was most recently updated >>> earlier in the >>> year [3]. For example, the new model constitution is more >>> specific about >>> elements such as the quorum required at general meetings. It >>> provides an >>> excellent basis for LA's constitution, but has had holes in it >>> in the >>> past. I haven't read the new one in depth, so cannot comment >>> on it here. >>> PREVIOUS CONSTITUTIONAL CHANGES >>> Linux Australia has previously made constitutional changes, >>> generally >>> with the intent to come into compliance with the Act, or to >>> remain >>> compliant. Some of the organisational history here is before >>> my time, >>> but I've done my best to provide links to relevant changes. >>> You'll note >>> that community discussion on changes was, ah, equally vociferous. >>> - In 2004, changes were made to allow the Secretary to approve >>> memberships without needing approval by a Committee (Council) >>> meeting >>> (among others I think) [4] >>> - In 2011, changes were made to align with the Act and I >>> believe to move >>> the financial year of the organisation to better align with >>> conference >>> financials [5] >>> MAKING A CONSTITUTIONAL CHANGE >>> In general, the Council has the power to make a constitutional >>> change >>> without consulting the membership. In practice, this has been >>> discussed >>> on this mailing list, and often put to a formal vote of >>> members. For >>> example, in 2017, a proposal to change the organisation's name >>> was >>> proposed (for transparency, by me in my capacity as >>> then-President), and >>> voted on as a motion at the upcoming AGM [6]. Once a decision >>> has been >>> arrived at, a member of the Council, or the organisation's public >>> officer then contacts the Office of Fair Trading to update the >>> Constitution. Fair Trading must agree to the change, and for this >>> reason, Linux Australia will provide a rationale for the change - >>> including, for example, results of a motion voted on at an AGM >>> or SGM. >>> MAKING CHANGE HAPPEN IN PRACTICE >>> So, that's the *legislative* and *procedural* aspect of >>> constitutional >>> change for Linux Australia. In reality, the process of change >>> often >>> takes months of negotiation, discussion and debate on list. These >>> discussions can get heated and occasionally, uncivil - so >>> let's avoid >>> that - but the energy here shows the passion that our >>> membership has for >>> creating structures that reflect our values and desired ways >>> of working. >>> WHAT NEXT? >>> - If the community wishes to change the Constitution, you need >>> to reach >>> agreement on what you want to change it *to* >>> - The Model Constitution is a good starting point. >>> - In the past, GitHub has been used as a platform to >>> transparently >>> discuss and see changes and proposals - >>> https://github.com/linuxaustralia >>> . >>> - When a loose consensus has been arrived at, the change is >>> generally >>> put up for voting on - at an AGM or SGM. They both have notice >>> periods. >>> Kind regards, >>> Kathy Reid >>> [1] >>> https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/associations-and-co-operatives/associations >>> [2] >>> https://legislation.nsw.gov.au/view/html/inforce/current/act-2009-007 >>> [3] >>> https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/associations-and-co-operatives/associations/starting-an-association/model-constitution >>> see also >>> https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/word_doc/0018/1102491/Model-Constitution-for-Associations-2022-3.docx >>> [4] 2004 - >>> https://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2004-January/009490.html >>> [5] 2011 - >>> https://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2011-May/018832.html >>> [6] >>> https://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2017-December/023288.html > >> linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au From lyematt at gmail.com Wed Jan 4 14:06:51 2023 From: lyematt at gmail.com (Matthew Lye) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 13:06:51 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Constitutional background and towards a reformed constitution for Linux Australia In-Reply-To: <25B13013-A658-4571-83CC-476E2EB158C9@herstik.com> References: <2f0a384e-1f3b-3860-f3ed-2abc8dd40180@simotek.net> <25B13013-A658-4571-83CC-476E2EB158C9@herstik.com> Message-ID: I've been following this conversation and agree with Marcus's comments with one slight deviation regarding this point: > It would be reasonably simple to address this should that section be > removed by adding a line saying that the committee may approve use of the > data for sending other material relating to the association if it is deemed > reasonable. (Not in those exact words but that idea worded in a way that > ties in with the rest of the constitution). > While I don?t think you envisage it being abused, it must never be up to > be leadership to approve or deny the ability of its members to discuss > things. Especially as it can be used to limit discussion of issues with the > leadership or the organisation?s direction. Would it not be fair to consider the ability for the members to communicate within the membership group met by providing the mailing list? Asking for additional details for the purposes of contacting members seems redundant and highly prone to abuse. -Matthew Lye On Wed, 4 Jan 2023 at 08:42, Marcus Herstik via linux-aus < linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > I have a small comment or 2 below, but the general consensus from the > boards and committees I have been on before is that the constitution should > allow the leaders to act while ensuring accountability and transparency to > the constituents that make up the organisation. > > If the members have issues there must always be a way to organise and > remove members. > > > > > On 2 Jan 2023, at 5:41 am, Simon Lees via linux-aus < > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > > > > ? > > > >> On 1/2/23 14:23, Wil Brown via linux-aus wrote: > >> Hi members, > >> Regarding changes to the LA constitution, I propose we stay within the > NSW Fair Trading Model Constitution document [1]. > >> The NSW Fair Trading Model Constitution section 4, "Register of > members", is the basis for the Linux Australia Constitution section 7 ", > Register of members" [2]. > >> Deviating too much from the model constitution will likely cause > misinterpretation and open the floor to possible legal issues. > > > > This also sounds reasonable to me. > > Definitely best practice to stay as close as possible without good reasons > to deviate. > > >> The main issue our members must resolve is satisfying the purpose of > obtaining member information and how that works with our privacy policy [3]. > >> Our constitution S7(4) [4] states that a member can request "any" part > of the register, whereas the model constitution S4(4) states that a member > can request "a" part of the register. This word is crucial as in addition > to name, postal address and joining date, the register /could /contain > additional information, such as email address, phone number etc. > >> I would suggest changing the wording in our constitution S7(4) [4] from > "any" to "a", which will help council members vet the member data portion > requested with the purpose of the request as outlined in S7(6) both parts > (a) and (b) [5], and bring our constitution in line with the NSW Fair > Trading model constitution. > >> The purpose of using member data outlined in S7(6)(b) is clear and a > compliance requirement. > >> The purpose of using member data outlined in S7(6)(a) needs to be > clarified. Using member data for postal newsletters and communications of > member meetings and events seems reasonable. However, the phrase "or other > material relating to the association" [6] is open for interpretation. > >> Could I suggest that members debate what "other material relating to > the association" is appropriate to communicate to a member via their > personal data on the register, now and in the foreseeable future? > > > > From a quick read of the constitution I can see a couple of areas that > may be impacted which illustrate why this may be important. > > > > Reason One: > > > > In Section 25 Members may call for a special general meeting but as > outlined below the amount of paperwork to do such would require some level > of coordination > > > > 25. Special general meetings ? calling of > > ... > > (2) The committee must, on the requisition in writing of at least 5 per > cent of the total number of members or 20 members, whichever number is > fewer, convene a special general meeting of the association. > > (a) must state the purpose or purposes of the meeting, and > > (b) must be signed by the members making the requisition, and > > (c) must be lodged with the secretary, and > > (d) may consist of several documents in a similar form, each signed by > one or more of the members making the requisition. > > > > Further in Section 19 a member of the committee may be removed in a > general meeting > > 19. Removal of committee members > > (1) The association in general meeting may by resolution remove any > member of the committee from the office of member before the expiration of > the member?s term of office and may by resolution appoint another person to > hold office until the expiration of the term of office of the member so > removed. > > > > So it seems like a somewhat sensible safeguard that if a group of > members believe that say the secretary (or another member) has behaved > inappropriately that they may want to discuss with other members the > possibility of calling for a SGM without stating the reason. As an > individual or group of individuals may not have decided whether they > actually want to go ahead with calling a meeting i'm unsure if this case > fits within the current reasoning. But I believe that its important for the > balance of any constitution even if in the past its caused me many > "headaches" when being on the board of community projects (People can ask > me about that off list if they really feel like it, its off topic here). > > > > It would be possible to retain such a safeguard by providing a way for a > member to contact all other members without giving direct access to > personal information, however if this approach was to be taken I believe > the constitution should be updated to ensure it remains. > > This must remain to ensure integrity of the organisation or we risk what > happened with the ACS. > > > > > Reason Two: > > This is a somewhat strange one for an open source community and maybe > points to another section of the constitution that we should consider > changing. > > > > 10. Resolution of disputes > > (1) A dispute between a member and another member (in their capacity as > members) of the association, or a dispute between a member or members and > the association, are to be referred to a community justice centre for > mediation under the Community Justice Centres Act 1983. > > (2) If a dispute is not resolved by mediation within 3 months of the > referral to a community justice centre, the dispute is to be referred to > arbitration. > > (3) The Commercial Arbitration Act 1984 applies to any such dispute > referred to arbitration. > > I am not familiar with NSW law and whether the Act listed above gives a > Community Justice Centre the legal right to request a members personal > details in this case or whether this would be a case that would need to > fall under the "other material relating to the association". Having just re > read the relevant part of the constitution there is a section (b) "any > other purpose necessary to comply with a requirement of the Act or the > Regulation." Which covers this but i'll leave this reason because I think > there is stuff in the below paragraph worth still discussing here. > > So far I have not been contacted by anyone on council regarding resolving > my dispute. > > > > As someone who has been involved in the openSUSE Board, its constitution > the first point for conflict resolutions between members should be the the > Board, having looked at this in the past I know many open source projects > either use there equivelent Board / Council or either a subcommittee or a > separate internal body to deal with such situations. Given the constitution > already gives the committee the power to discipline members (Section 11) > maybe in the case of an organisation such as Linux Australia it makes more > sense for such disputes to be handled by the committee or a subcommittee as > a first point of call with the ability for them to refer it further if > required. This is one part of the constitution that I think probably makes > more sense for local bowling clubs etc then it does for Linux Australia > which is essentially an international organisation. > While I agree it?s a weird process, especially for a national > organisation, it needs to be able to be escalated as well. > Most organisations have a stated jurisdiction, and therefore NSW is fine > for that. > However, having a justice centre be the arbiter is likely a waste of their > time in the first instance. > The legal fraternity takes a dim view of organisations wasting their time > with minor disputes, especially if they can be dealt with internally. > > > > > Reason Three: > > I'm less sure that this is necessarily a reason that needs to be listed > in the constitution but the fact its there means we don't really need to > think about it. > > > > As far as I can tell the constitution doesn't list anywhere else what > the committee and or any sub committees can equally do with the membership > data. Other than that they are members and as such can request it. > > We are all equal members, some just have more responsibilities than > others. > We should also consider incorporating if we aren?t already. If I am not on > the council after election they should talk to a lawyer as to why. > > > Without the clause as currently written if say Linux Australia created a > sub committee to review a certain topic and say this subcommittee was made > up of non regular committee members, it isn't immediately obvious under > current or maybe future privacy laws whether a member of such a sub > committee or even a member of the current committee could use that > membership information to send out a questionnaire or survey related to > there review. > > > > Members of the org can ask for membership information - there is no > restriction on the constitution as to reasoning. Therefore, if they are a > sub-committee they can request it from the secretary and get it. > Use is covered by disciplinary actions available. > > > It would be reasonably simple to address this should that section be > removed by adding a line saying that the committee may approve use of the > data for sending other material relating to the association if it is deemed > reasonable. (Not in those exact words but that idea worded in a way that > ties in with the rest of the constitution). > > > > While I don?t think you envisage it being abused, it must never be up to > be leadership to approve or deny the ability of its members to discuss > things. Especially as it can be used to limit discussion of issues with the > leadership or the organisation?s direction. > > > Thanks > > > > Simon Lees > > > >> On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 3:45 PM Kathy Reid > wrote: > >> Thanks so much Wil and Jonathan - super helpful! > >> We have a clear way forward for anyone wanting to contribute to > >> changing the Constitution :-) > >> Best, Kathy > >>> On 19/12/2022 12:10 pm, Wil Brown wrote: > >>> Thanks, Kathy > >>> Since the initial ask for members' information was requested, we > >>> (the council) have discussed and noted that the current > >>> Constitution wording for section seven, specifically subsections > >>> three and four, likely need to be updated [1] to be 1) in line > >>> with changes to the NSW Fair Trading Act model constitution, 2) > >>> set a realistic time for response, 3) clarity of what data can be > >>> obtained, 4) what it can be used for and 5) how the constitution > >>> and privacy policies work together. > >>> We also noted that the timeframe between the then council meeting > >>> (October 26, 2022) and the upcoming AGM was unrealistic to discuss > >>> and implement the changes. We will raise this as an issue for the > >>> 2023 LA Council to action. > >>> In the meantime, we welcome all members to contribute to the > >>> discussion on this thread. > >>> Refs: > >>> [1] > >>> > https://linux.org.au/council-meeting-26th-october-2022-minutes/#:~:text=Do%20we%20need%20to%20change%20the%20wording%20in%20the%20constitution%20S7(3)%20and%20S7(4)%20to%20explicitly%20state%20what%20register%20data%20a%20member%20can%20receive%20upon%20request%3F > < > https://linux.org.au/council-meeting-26th-october-2022-minutes/#:~:text=Do%20we%20need%20to%20change%20the%20wording%20in%20the%20constitution%20S7(3)%20and%20S7(4)%20to%20explicitly%20state%20what%20register%20data%20a%20member%20can%20receive%20upon%20request%3F > > > >>> Regards, > >>> Wil. > >>> On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 11:02 AM Kathy Reid via linux-aus > >>> >>> > wrote: > >>> Hi folx, > >>> Firstly I hope that this note finds everyone safe, well and > >>> doing OK, > >>> after another challenging year on several fronts. > >>> Here, I'm weaving together several threads of discussion on > >>> the mailing > >>> list in an attempt to help the community forge a path ahead; > >>> this isn't > >>> Council endorsed - I'm doing this because I know how much > >>> Council has on > >>> at this time of year with end of year accounting, annual > >>> report and > >>> election preparation. They simply don't have time to get > >>> involved in > >>> discussions on list at the moment. So, I'm providing > >>> information that > >>> the community needs if they want to change the Constitution. I > >>> am going > >>> to remain neutral on whether the constitution *should* be > >>> changed - and > >>> limit the information here to the tools the community can use to > >>> *effect* change, if desired. > >>> CONSTITUTIONAL BACKGROUND > >>> Linux Australia is an incorporated association registered in > >>> the state > >>> of New South Wales. As such, the primary legislative authority > >>> is the > >>> Office of Fair Trading in NSW [1]. The primary underpinning > >>> legislation > >>> is the NSW Incorporated Associations Act 2009 (NSW) [2]. The > >>> legislation divides Associations into Tier 1 and Tier 2 > >>> organisations, > >>> depending on their size and assets. Linux Australia, due to its > >>> holdings, is a Tier 1 organisation. > >>> The Office of Fair Trading makes available a "model > >>> constitution" that > >>> associations can use as their association constitution - this > >>> gets > >>> updated from time to time, and was most recently updated > >>> earlier in the > >>> year [3]. For example, the new model constitution is more > >>> specific about > >>> elements such as the quorum required at general meetings. It > >>> provides an > >>> excellent basis for LA's constitution, but has had holes in it > >>> in the > >>> past. I haven't read the new one in depth, so cannot comment > >>> on it here. > >>> PREVIOUS CONSTITUTIONAL CHANGES > >>> Linux Australia has previously made constitutional changes, > >>> generally > >>> with the intent to come into compliance with the Act, or to > >>> remain > >>> compliant. Some of the organisational history here is before > >>> my time, > >>> but I've done my best to provide links to relevant changes. > >>> You'll note > >>> that community discussion on changes was, ah, equally vociferous. > >>> - In 2004, changes were made to allow the Secretary to approve > >>> memberships without needing approval by a Committee (Council) > >>> meeting > >>> (among others I think) [4] > >>> - In 2011, changes were made to align with the Act and I > >>> believe to move > >>> the financial year of the organisation to better align with > >>> conference > >>> financials [5] > >>> MAKING A CONSTITUTIONAL CHANGE > >>> In general, the Council has the power to make a constitutional > >>> change > >>> without consulting the membership. In practice, this has been > >>> discussed > >>> on this mailing list, and often put to a formal vote of > >>> members. For > >>> example, in 2017, a proposal to change the organisation's name > >>> was > >>> proposed (for transparency, by me in my capacity as > >>> then-President), and > >>> voted on as a motion at the upcoming AGM [6]. Once a decision > >>> has been > >>> arrived at, a member of the Council, or the organisation's public > >>> officer then contacts the Office of Fair Trading to update the > >>> Constitution. Fair Trading must agree to the change, and for this > >>> reason, Linux Australia will provide a rationale for the change - > >>> including, for example, results of a motion voted on at an AGM > >>> or SGM. > >>> MAKING CHANGE HAPPEN IN PRACTICE > >>> So, that's the *legislative* and *procedural* aspect of > >>> constitutional > >>> change for Linux Australia. In reality, the process of change > >>> often > >>> takes months of negotiation, discussion and debate on list. These > >>> discussions can get heated and occasionally, uncivil - so > >>> let's avoid > >>> that - but the energy here shows the passion that our > >>> membership has for > >>> creating structures that reflect our values and desired ways > >>> of working. > >>> WHAT NEXT? > >>> - If the community wishes to change the Constitution, you need > >>> to reach > >>> agreement on what you want to change it *to* > >>> - The Model Constitution is a good starting point. > >>> - In the past, GitHub has been used as a platform to > >>> transparently > >>> discuss and see changes and proposals - > >>> https://github.com/linuxaustralia > >>> . > >>> - When a loose consensus has been arrived at, the change is > >>> generally > >>> put up for voting on - at an AGM or SGM. They both have notice > >>> periods. > >>> Kind regards, > >>> Kathy Reid > >>> [1] > >>> > https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/associations-and-co-operatives/associations > < > https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/associations-and-co-operatives/associations > > > >>> [2] > >>> > https://legislation.nsw.gov.au/view/html/inforce/current/act-2009-007 < > https://legislation.nsw.gov.au/view/html/inforce/current/act-2009-007> > >>> [3] > >>> > https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/associations-and-co-operatives/associations/starting-an-association/model-constitution > < > https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/associations-and-co-operatives/associations/starting-an-association/model-constitution > > > >>> see also > >>> > https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/word_doc/0018/1102491/Model-Constitution-for-Associations-2022-3.docx > < > https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/word_doc/0018/1102491/Model-Constitution-for-Associations-2022-3.docx > > > >>> [4] 2004 - > >>> > https://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2004-January/009490.html < > https://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2004-January/009490.html> > >>> [5] 2011 - > >>> > https://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2011-May/018832.html < > https://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2011-May/018832.html> > >>> [6] > >>> > https://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2017-December/023288.html < > https://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2017-December/023288.html> > > > >> linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au > > _______________________________________________ > > linux-aus mailing list > > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.esson at gmail.com Wed Jan 4 15:31:21 2023 From: paul.esson at gmail.com (Paul Esson) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 15:31:21 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Constitutional background and towards a reformed constitution for Linux Australia In-Reply-To: References: <2f0a384e-1f3b-3860-f3ed-2abc8dd40180@simotek.net> <25B13013-A658-4571-83CC-476E2EB158C9@herstik.com> Message-ID: Only First Name and Email are requirements when registering or updating details on linuxaus, This seems to be at odds with 2.7.1 which states: > The public officer or the secretary of the association must establish and maintain a register of members of the association specifying the name and postal or residential address of each person who is a member of the association together with the date on which the person became a member. it also makes it hard for the request Marcus made to be satisfied. I agree with Matthew's sentiment that this mailing list should be sufficient for people to voice their concerns or rally members around a cause, I would be in favor of any change that reflected how Linux Aus operates at the current time and expectations that members have of the organisation in respect to privacy and the data it has about them. Paul Esson On Wed, Jan 4, 2023 at 2:08 PM Matthew Lye via linux-aus < linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > I've been following this conversation and agree with Marcus's comments > with one slight deviation regarding this point: > > > It would be reasonably simple to address this should that section be >> removed by adding a line saying that the committee may approve use of the >> data for sending other material relating to the association if it is deemed >> reasonable. (Not in those exact words but that idea worded in a way that >> ties in with the rest of the constitution). > > >> While I don?t think you envisage it being abused, it must never be up to >> be leadership to approve or deny the ability of its members to discuss >> things. Especially as it can be used to limit discussion of issues with the >> leadership or the organisation?s direction. > > > Would it not be fair to consider the ability for the members to > communicate within the membership group met by providing the mailing list? > Asking for additional details for the purposes of contacting members seems > redundant and highly prone to abuse. > > -Matthew Lye > > electrons were terribly inconvenienced> > > > On Wed, 4 Jan 2023 at 08:42, Marcus Herstik via linux-aus < > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > >> I have a small comment or 2 below, but the general consensus from the >> boards and committees I have been on before is that the constitution should >> allow the leaders to act while ensuring accountability and transparency to >> the constituents that make up the organisation. >> >> If the members have issues there must always be a way to organise and >> remove members. >> >> > >> > On 2 Jan 2023, at 5:41 am, Simon Lees via linux-aus < >> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: >> > >> > ? >> > >> >> On 1/2/23 14:23, Wil Brown via linux-aus wrote: >> >> Hi members, >> >> Regarding changes to the LA constitution, I propose we stay within the >> NSW Fair Trading Model Constitution document [1]. >> >> The NSW Fair Trading Model Constitution section 4, "Register of >> members", is the basis for the Linux Australia Constitution section 7 ", >> Register of members" [2]. >> >> Deviating too much from the model constitution will likely cause >> misinterpretation and open the floor to possible legal issues. >> > >> > This also sounds reasonable to me. >> >> Definitely best practice to stay as close as possible without good >> reasons to deviate. >> >> >> The main issue our members must resolve is satisfying the purpose of >> obtaining member information and how that works with our privacy policy [3]. >> >> Our constitution S7(4) [4] states that a member can request "any" part >> of the register, whereas the model constitution S4(4) states that a member >> can request "a" part of the register. This word is crucial as in addition >> to name, postal address and joining date, the register /could /contain >> additional information, such as email address, phone number etc. >> >> I would suggest changing the wording in our constitution S7(4) [4] >> from "any" to "a", which will help council members vet the member data >> portion requested with the purpose of the request as outlined in S7(6) both >> parts (a) and (b) [5], and bring our constitution in line with the NSW Fair >> Trading model constitution. >> >> The purpose of using member data outlined in S7(6)(b) is clear and a >> compliance requirement. >> >> The purpose of using member data outlined in S7(6)(a) needs to be >> clarified. Using member data for postal newsletters and communications of >> member meetings and events seems reasonable. However, the phrase "or other >> material relating to the association" [6] is open for interpretation. >> >> Could I suggest that members debate what "other material relating to >> the association" is appropriate to communicate to a member via their >> personal data on the register, now and in the foreseeable future? >> > >> > From a quick read of the constitution I can see a couple of areas that >> may be impacted which illustrate why this may be important. >> > >> > Reason One: >> > >> > In Section 25 Members may call for a special general meeting but as >> outlined below the amount of paperwork to do such would require some level >> of coordination >> > >> > 25. Special general meetings ? calling of >> > ... >> > (2) The committee must, on the requisition in writing of at least 5 per >> cent of the total number of members or 20 members, whichever number is >> fewer, convene a special general meeting of the association. >> > (a) must state the purpose or purposes of the meeting, and >> > (b) must be signed by the members making the requisition, and >> > (c) must be lodged with the secretary, and >> > (d) may consist of several documents in a similar form, each signed by >> one or more of the members making the requisition. >> > >> > Further in Section 19 a member of the committee may be removed in a >> general meeting >> > 19. Removal of committee members >> > (1) The association in general meeting may by resolution remove any >> member of the committee from the office of member before the expiration of >> the member?s term of office and may by resolution appoint another person to >> hold office until the expiration of the term of office of the member so >> removed. >> > >> > So it seems like a somewhat sensible safeguard that if a group of >> members believe that say the secretary (or another member) has behaved >> inappropriately that they may want to discuss with other members the >> possibility of calling for a SGM without stating the reason. As an >> individual or group of individuals may not have decided whether they >> actually want to go ahead with calling a meeting i'm unsure if this case >> fits within the current reasoning. But I believe that its important for the >> balance of any constitution even if in the past its caused me many >> "headaches" when being on the board of community projects (People can ask >> me about that off list if they really feel like it, its off topic here). >> > >> > It would be possible to retain such a safeguard by providing a way for >> a member to contact all other members without giving direct access to >> personal information, however if this approach was to be taken I believe >> the constitution should be updated to ensure it remains. >> >> This must remain to ensure integrity of the organisation or we risk what >> happened with the ACS. >> >> > >> > Reason Two: >> > This is a somewhat strange one for an open source community and maybe >> points to another section of the constitution that we should consider >> changing. >> > >> > 10. Resolution of disputes >> > (1) A dispute between a member and another member (in their capacity as >> members) of the association, or a dispute between a member or members and >> the association, are to be referred to a community justice centre for >> mediation under the Community Justice Centres Act 1983. >> > (2) If a dispute is not resolved by mediation within 3 months of the >> referral to a community justice centre, the dispute is to be referred to >> arbitration. >> > (3) The Commercial Arbitration Act 1984 applies to any such dispute >> referred to arbitration. >> > I am not familiar with NSW law and whether the Act listed above gives a >> Community Justice Centre the legal right to request a members personal >> details in this case or whether this would be a case that would need to >> fall under the "other material relating to the association". Having just re >> read the relevant part of the constitution there is a section (b) "any >> other purpose necessary to comply with a requirement of the Act or the >> Regulation." Which covers this but i'll leave this reason because I think >> there is stuff in the below paragraph worth still discussing here. >> >> So far I have not been contacted by anyone on council regarding resolving >> my dispute. >> > >> > As someone who has been involved in the openSUSE Board, its >> constitution the first point for conflict resolutions between members >> should be the the Board, having looked at this in the past I know many open >> source projects either use there equivelent Board / Council or either a >> subcommittee or a separate internal body to deal with such situations. >> Given the constitution already gives the committee the power to discipline >> members (Section 11) maybe in the case of an organisation such as Linux >> Australia it makes more sense for such disputes to be handled by the >> committee or a subcommittee as a first point of call with the ability for >> them to refer it further if required. This is one part of the constitution >> that I think probably makes more sense for local bowling clubs etc then it >> does for Linux Australia which is essentially an international organisation. >> While I agree it?s a weird process, especially for a national >> organisation, it needs to be able to be escalated as well. >> Most organisations have a stated jurisdiction, and therefore NSW is fine >> for that. >> However, having a justice centre be the arbiter is likely a waste of >> their time in the first instance. >> The legal fraternity takes a dim view of organisations wasting their time >> with minor disputes, especially if they can be dealt with internally. >> >> > >> > Reason Three: >> > I'm less sure that this is necessarily a reason that needs to be listed >> in the constitution but the fact its there means we don't really need to >> think about it. >> > >> > As far as I can tell the constitution doesn't list anywhere else what >> the committee and or any sub committees can equally do with the membership >> data. Other than that they are members and as such can request it. >> >> We are all equal members, some just have more responsibilities than >> others. >> We should also consider incorporating if we aren?t already. If I am not >> on the council after election they should talk to a lawyer as to why. >> >> > Without the clause as currently written if say Linux Australia created >> a sub committee to review a certain topic and say this subcommittee was >> made up of non regular committee members, it isn't immediately obvious >> under current or maybe future privacy laws whether a member of such a sub >> committee or even a member of the current committee could use that >> membership information to send out a questionnaire or survey related to >> there review. >> > >> >> Members of the org can ask for membership information - there is no >> restriction on the constitution as to reasoning. Therefore, if they are a >> sub-committee they can request it from the secretary and get it. >> Use is covered by disciplinary actions available. >> >> > It would be reasonably simple to address this should that section be >> removed by adding a line saying that the committee may approve use of the >> data for sending other material relating to the association if it is deemed >> reasonable. (Not in those exact words but that idea worded in a way that >> ties in with the rest of the constitution). >> > >> >> While I don?t think you envisage it being abused, it must never be up to >> be leadership to approve or deny the ability of its members to discuss >> things. Especially as it can be used to limit discussion of issues with the >> leadership or the organisation?s direction. >> >> > Thanks >> > >> > Simon Lees >> > >> >> On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 3:45 PM Kathy Reid > > wrote: >> >> Thanks so much Wil and Jonathan - super helpful! >> >> We have a clear way forward for anyone wanting to contribute to >> >> changing the Constitution :-) >> >> Best, Kathy >> >>> On 19/12/2022 12:10 pm, Wil Brown wrote: >> >>> Thanks, Kathy >> >>> Since the initial ask for members' information was requested, we >> >>> (the council) have discussed and noted that the current >> >>> Constitution wording for section seven, specifically subsections >> >>> three and four, likely need to be updated [1] to be 1) in line >> >>> with changes to the NSW Fair Trading Act model constitution, 2) >> >>> set a realistic time for response, 3) clarity of what data can be >> >>> obtained, 4) what it can be used for and 5) how the constitution >> >>> and privacy policies work together. >> >>> We also noted that the timeframe between the then council meeting >> >>> (October 26, 2022) and the upcoming AGM was unrealistic to discuss >> >>> and implement the changes. We will raise this as an issue for the >> >>> 2023 LA Council to action. >> >>> In the meantime, we welcome all members to contribute to the >> >>> discussion on this thread. >> >>> Refs: >> >>> [1] >> >>> >> https://linux.org.au/council-meeting-26th-october-2022-minutes/#:~:text=Do%20we%20need%20to%20change%20the%20wording%20in%20the%20constitution%20S7(3)%20and%20S7(4)%20to%20explicitly%20state%20what%20register%20data%20a%20member%20can%20receive%20upon%20request%3F >> < >> https://linux.org.au/council-meeting-26th-october-2022-minutes/#:~:text=Do%20we%20need%20to%20change%20the%20wording%20in%20the%20constitution%20S7(3)%20and%20S7(4)%20to%20explicitly%20state%20what%20register%20data%20a%20member%20can%20receive%20upon%20request%3F >> > >> >>> Regards, >> >>> Wil. >> >>> On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 11:02 AM Kathy Reid via linux-aus >> >>> > >>> > wrote: >> >>> Hi folx, >> >>> Firstly I hope that this note finds everyone safe, well and >> >>> doing OK, >> >>> after another challenging year on several fronts. >> >>> Here, I'm weaving together several threads of discussion on >> >>> the mailing >> >>> list in an attempt to help the community forge a path ahead; >> >>> this isn't >> >>> Council endorsed - I'm doing this because I know how much >> >>> Council has on >> >>> at this time of year with end of year accounting, annual >> >>> report and >> >>> election preparation. They simply don't have time to get >> >>> involved in >> >>> discussions on list at the moment. So, I'm providing >> >>> information that >> >>> the community needs if they want to change the Constitution. I >> >>> am going >> >>> to remain neutral on whether the constitution *should* be >> >>> changed - and >> >>> limit the information here to the tools the community can use to >> >>> *effect* change, if desired. >> >>> CONSTITUTIONAL BACKGROUND >> >>> Linux Australia is an incorporated association registered in >> >>> the state >> >>> of New South Wales. As such, the primary legislative authority >> >>> is the >> >>> Office of Fair Trading in NSW [1]. The primary underpinning >> >>> legislation >> >>> is the NSW Incorporated Associations Act 2009 (NSW) [2]. The >> >>> legislation divides Associations into Tier 1 and Tier 2 >> >>> organisations, >> >>> depending on their size and assets. Linux Australia, due to its >> >>> holdings, is a Tier 1 organisation. >> >>> The Office of Fair Trading makes available a "model >> >>> constitution" that >> >>> associations can use as their association constitution - this >> >>> gets >> >>> updated from time to time, and was most recently updated >> >>> earlier in the >> >>> year [3]. For example, the new model constitution is more >> >>> specific about >> >>> elements such as the quorum required at general meetings. It >> >>> provides an >> >>> excellent basis for LA's constitution, but has had holes in it >> >>> in the >> >>> past. I haven't read the new one in depth, so cannot comment >> >>> on it here. >> >>> PREVIOUS CONSTITUTIONAL CHANGES >> >>> Linux Australia has previously made constitutional changes, >> >>> generally >> >>> with the intent to come into compliance with the Act, or to >> >>> remain >> >>> compliant. Some of the organisational history here is before >> >>> my time, >> >>> but I've done my best to provide links to relevant changes. >> >>> You'll note >> >>> that community discussion on changes was, ah, equally vociferous. >> >>> - In 2004, changes were made to allow the Secretary to approve >> >>> memberships without needing approval by a Committee (Council) >> >>> meeting >> >>> (among others I think) [4] >> >>> - In 2011, changes were made to align with the Act and I >> >>> believe to move >> >>> the financial year of the organisation to better align with >> >>> conference >> >>> financials [5] >> >>> MAKING A CONSTITUTIONAL CHANGE >> >>> In general, the Council has the power to make a constitutional >> >>> change >> >>> without consulting the membership. In practice, this has been >> >>> discussed >> >>> on this mailing list, and often put to a formal vote of >> >>> members. For >> >>> example, in 2017, a proposal to change the organisation's name >> >>> was >> >>> proposed (for transparency, by me in my capacity as >> >>> then-President), and >> >>> voted on as a motion at the upcoming AGM [6]. Once a decision >> >>> has been >> >>> arrived at, a member of the Council, or the organisation's public >> >>> officer then contacts the Office of Fair Trading to update the >> >>> Constitution. Fair Trading must agree to the change, and for this >> >>> reason, Linux Australia will provide a rationale for the change - >> >>> including, for example, results of a motion voted on at an AGM >> >>> or SGM. >> >>> MAKING CHANGE HAPPEN IN PRACTICE >> >>> So, that's the *legislative* and *procedural* aspect of >> >>> constitutional >> >>> change for Linux Australia. In reality, the process of change >> >>> often >> >>> takes months of negotiation, discussion and debate on list. These >> >>> discussions can get heated and occasionally, uncivil - so >> >>> let's avoid >> >>> that - but the energy here shows the passion that our >> >>> membership has for >> >>> creating structures that reflect our values and desired ways >> >>> of working. >> >>> WHAT NEXT? >> >>> - If the community wishes to change the Constitution, you need >> >>> to reach >> >>> agreement on what you want to change it *to* >> >>> - The Model Constitution is a good starting point. >> >>> - In the past, GitHub has been used as a platform to >> >>> transparently >> >>> discuss and see changes and proposals - >> >>> https://github.com/linuxaustralia >> >>> . >> >>> - When a loose consensus has been arrived at, the change is >> >>> generally >> >>> put up for voting on - at an AGM or SGM. They both have notice >> >>> periods. >> >>> Kind regards, >> >>> Kathy Reid >> >>> [1] >> >>> >> https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/associations-and-co-operatives/associations >> < >> https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/associations-and-co-operatives/associations >> > >> >>> [2] >> >>> >> https://legislation.nsw.gov.au/view/html/inforce/current/act-2009-007 < >> https://legislation.nsw.gov.au/view/html/inforce/current/act-2009-007> >> >>> [3] >> >>> >> https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/associations-and-co-operatives/associations/starting-an-association/model-constitution >> < >> https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/associations-and-co-operatives/associations/starting-an-association/model-constitution >> > >> >>> see also >> >>> >> https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/word_doc/0018/1102491/Model-Constitution-for-Associations-2022-3.docx >> < >> https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/word_doc/0018/1102491/Model-Constitution-for-Associations-2022-3.docx >> > >> >>> [4] 2004 - >> >>> >> https://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2004-January/009490.html < >> https://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2004-January/009490.html> >> >>> [5] 2011 - >> >>> >> https://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2011-May/018832.html < >> https://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2011-May/018832.html> >> >>> [6] >> >>> >> https://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2017-December/023288.html >> > > >> > >> >> linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au >> > _______________________________________________ >> > linux-aus mailing list >> > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au >> > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus >> > >> > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to >> > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au >> >> _______________________________________________ >> linux-aus mailing list >> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au >> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus >> >> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to >> linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kathy at kathyreid.id.au Wed Jan 4 15:42:39 2023 From: kathy at kathyreid.id.au (Kathy Reid) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 15:42:39 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Constitutional background and towards a reformed constitution for Linux Australia In-Reply-To: <25B13013-A658-4571-83CC-476E2EB158C9@herstik.com> References: <2f0a384e-1f3b-3860-f3ed-2abc8dd40180@simotek.net> <25B13013-A658-4571-83CC-476E2EB158C9@herstik.com> Message-ID: <00a754c2-44d3-dffa-e580-1bc65469e03e@kathyreid.id.au> On 4/1/23 09:41, Marcus Herstik via linux-aus wrote: > We should also consider incorporating if we aren?t already. If I am not on the council after election they should talk to a lawyer as to why. > Linux Australia Inc. is an incorporated association in NSW [1]. [1] https://linux.org.au/about-us/organisational-details/ From tfeccles at gmail.com Wed Jan 4 16:01:06 2023 From: tfeccles at gmail.com (Colin Fee) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 16:01:06 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Constitutional background and towards a reformed constitution for Linux Australia In-Reply-To: References: <2f0a384e-1f3b-3860-f3ed-2abc8dd40180@simotek.net> <25B13013-A658-4571-83CC-476E2EB158C9@herstik.com> Message-ID: Such clauses as 2.7.1 were written when digital communications methods were in their infancy. An association rules needed a means of providing members a check-and-balance mechanism to allow the membership to call a special general meeting should the need arise, using traditional methods of contact e.g. postal mail etc. I agree that nowadays, the (an?) email list would suffice. On Wed, 4 Jan 2023 at 15:32, Paul Esson via linux-aus < linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > > Only First Name and Email are requirements when registering or updating > details on linuxaus, This seems to be at odds with 2.7.1 which states: > > > The public officer or the secretary of the association must establish > and maintain a register of members of the association specifying the name > and postal or residential address of each person who is a member of the > association together with the date on which the person became a member. > > it also makes it hard for the request Marcus made to be satisfied. > > I agree with Matthew's sentiment that this mailing list should be > sufficient for people to voice their concerns or rally members around a > cause, I would be in favor of any change that reflected how Linux Aus > operates at the current time and expectations that members have of the > organisation in respect to privacy and the data it has about them. > > Paul Esson > > > On Wed, Jan 4, 2023 at 2:08 PM Matthew Lye via linux-aus < > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > >> I've been following this conversation and agree with Marcus's comments >> with one slight deviation regarding this point: >> >> > It would be reasonably simple to address this should that section be >>> removed by adding a line saying that the committee may approve use of the >>> data for sending other material relating to the association if it is deemed >>> reasonable. (Not in those exact words but that idea worded in a way that >>> ties in with the rest of the constitution). >> >> >>> While I don?t think you envisage it being abused, it must never be up to >>> be leadership to approve or deny the ability of its members to discuss >>> things. Especially as it can be used to limit discussion of issues with the >>> leadership or the organisation?s direction. >> >> >> Would it not be fair to consider the ability for the members to >> communicate within the membership group met by providing the mailing list? >> Asking for additional details for the purposes of contacting members seems >> redundant and highly prone to abuse. >> >> -Matthew Lye >> >> > of electrons were terribly inconvenienced> >> >> >> On Wed, 4 Jan 2023 at 08:42, Marcus Herstik via linux-aus < >> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: >> >>> I have a small comment or 2 below, but the general consensus from the >>> boards and committees I have been on before is that the constitution should >>> allow the leaders to act while ensuring accountability and transparency to >>> the constituents that make up the organisation. >>> >>> If the members have issues there must always be a way to organise and >>> remove members. >>> >>> > >>> > On 2 Jan 2023, at 5:41 am, Simon Lees via linux-aus < >>> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: >>> > >>> > ? >>> > >>> >> On 1/2/23 14:23, Wil Brown via linux-aus wrote: >>> >> Hi members, >>> >> Regarding changes to the LA constitution, I propose we stay within >>> the NSW Fair Trading Model Constitution document [1]. >>> >> The NSW Fair Trading Model Constitution section 4, "Register of >>> members", is the basis for the Linux Australia Constitution section 7 ", >>> Register of members" [2]. >>> >> Deviating too much from the model constitution will likely cause >>> misinterpretation and open the floor to possible legal issues. >>> > >>> > This also sounds reasonable to me. >>> >>> Definitely best practice to stay as close as possible without good >>> reasons to deviate. >>> >>> >> The main issue our members must resolve is satisfying the purpose of >>> obtaining member information and how that works with our privacy policy [3]. >>> >> Our constitution S7(4) [4] states that a member can request "any" >>> part of the register, whereas the model constitution S4(4) states that a >>> member can request "a" part of the register. This word is crucial as in >>> addition to name, postal address and joining date, the register /could >>> /contain additional information, such as email address, phone number etc. >>> >> I would suggest changing the wording in our constitution S7(4) [4] >>> from "any" to "a", which will help council members vet the member data >>> portion requested with the purpose of the request as outlined in S7(6) both >>> parts (a) and (b) [5], and bring our constitution in line with the NSW Fair >>> Trading model constitution. >>> >> The purpose of using member data outlined in S7(6)(b) is clear and a >>> compliance requirement. >>> >> The purpose of using member data outlined in S7(6)(a) needs to be >>> clarified. Using member data for postal newsletters and communications of >>> member meetings and events seems reasonable. However, the phrase "or other >>> material relating to the association" [6] is open for interpretation. >>> >> Could I suggest that members debate what "other material relating to >>> the association" is appropriate to communicate to a member via their >>> personal data on the register, now and in the foreseeable future? >>> > >>> > From a quick read of the constitution I can see a couple of areas that >>> may be impacted which illustrate why this may be important. >>> > >>> > Reason One: >>> > >>> > In Section 25 Members may call for a special general meeting but as >>> outlined below the amount of paperwork to do such would require some level >>> of coordination >>> > >>> > 25. Special general meetings ? calling of >>> > ... >>> > (2) The committee must, on the requisition in writing of at least 5 >>> per cent of the total number of members or 20 members, whichever number is >>> fewer, convene a special general meeting of the association. >>> > (a) must state the purpose or purposes of the meeting, and >>> > (b) must be signed by the members making the requisition, and >>> > (c) must be lodged with the secretary, and >>> > (d) may consist of several documents in a similar form, each signed by >>> one or more of the members making the requisition. >>> > >>> > Further in Section 19 a member of the committee may be removed in a >>> general meeting >>> > 19. Removal of committee members >>> > (1) The association in general meeting may by resolution remove any >>> member of the committee from the office of member before the expiration of >>> the member?s term of office and may by resolution appoint another person to >>> hold office until the expiration of the term of office of the member so >>> removed. >>> > >>> > So it seems like a somewhat sensible safeguard that if a group of >>> members believe that say the secretary (or another member) has behaved >>> inappropriately that they may want to discuss with other members the >>> possibility of calling for a SGM without stating the reason. As an >>> individual or group of individuals may not have decided whether they >>> actually want to go ahead with calling a meeting i'm unsure if this case >>> fits within the current reasoning. But I believe that its important for the >>> balance of any constitution even if in the past its caused me many >>> "headaches" when being on the board of community projects (People can ask >>> me about that off list if they really feel like it, its off topic here). >>> > >>> > It would be possible to retain such a safeguard by providing a way for >>> a member to contact all other members without giving direct access to >>> personal information, however if this approach was to be taken I believe >>> the constitution should be updated to ensure it remains. >>> >>> This must remain to ensure integrity of the organisation or we risk what >>> happened with the ACS. >>> >>> > >>> > Reason Two: >>> > This is a somewhat strange one for an open source community and maybe >>> points to another section of the constitution that we should consider >>> changing. >>> > >>> > 10. Resolution of disputes >>> > (1) A dispute between a member and another member (in their capacity >>> as members) of the association, or a dispute between a member or members >>> and the association, are to be referred to a community justice centre for >>> mediation under the Community Justice Centres Act 1983. >>> > (2) If a dispute is not resolved by mediation within 3 months of the >>> referral to a community justice centre, the dispute is to be referred to >>> arbitration. >>> > (3) The Commercial Arbitration Act 1984 applies to any such dispute >>> referred to arbitration. >>> > I am not familiar with NSW law and whether the Act listed above gives >>> a Community Justice Centre the legal right to request a members personal >>> details in this case or whether this would be a case that would need to >>> fall under the "other material relating to the association". Having just re >>> read the relevant part of the constitution there is a section (b) "any >>> other purpose necessary to comply with a requirement of the Act or the >>> Regulation." Which covers this but i'll leave this reason because I think >>> there is stuff in the below paragraph worth still discussing here. >>> >>> So far I have not been contacted by anyone on council regarding >>> resolving my dispute. >>> > >>> > As someone who has been involved in the openSUSE Board, its >>> constitution the first point for conflict resolutions between members >>> should be the the Board, having looked at this in the past I know many open >>> source projects either use there equivelent Board / Council or either a >>> subcommittee or a separate internal body to deal with such situations. >>> Given the constitution already gives the committee the power to discipline >>> members (Section 11) maybe in the case of an organisation such as Linux >>> Australia it makes more sense for such disputes to be handled by the >>> committee or a subcommittee as a first point of call with the ability for >>> them to refer it further if required. This is one part of the constitution >>> that I think probably makes more sense for local bowling clubs etc then it >>> does for Linux Australia which is essentially an international organisation. >>> While I agree it?s a weird process, especially for a national >>> organisation, it needs to be able to be escalated as well. >>> Most organisations have a stated jurisdiction, and therefore NSW is fine >>> for that. >>> However, having a justice centre be the arbiter is likely a waste of >>> their time in the first instance. >>> The legal fraternity takes a dim view of organisations wasting their >>> time with minor disputes, especially if they can be dealt with internally. >>> >>> > >>> > Reason Three: >>> > I'm less sure that this is necessarily a reason that needs to be >>> listed in the constitution but the fact its there means we don't really >>> need to think about it. >>> > >>> > As far as I can tell the constitution doesn't list anywhere else what >>> the committee and or any sub committees can equally do with the membership >>> data. Other than that they are members and as such can request it. >>> >>> We are all equal members, some just have more responsibilities than >>> others. >>> We should also consider incorporating if we aren?t already. If I am not >>> on the council after election they should talk to a lawyer as to why. >>> >>> > Without the clause as currently written if say Linux Australia created >>> a sub committee to review a certain topic and say this subcommittee was >>> made up of non regular committee members, it isn't immediately obvious >>> under current or maybe future privacy laws whether a member of such a sub >>> committee or even a member of the current committee could use that >>> membership information to send out a questionnaire or survey related to >>> there review. >>> > >>> >>> Members of the org can ask for membership information - there is no >>> restriction on the constitution as to reasoning. Therefore, if they are a >>> sub-committee they can request it from the secretary and get it. >>> Use is covered by disciplinary actions available. >>> >>> > It would be reasonably simple to address this should that section be >>> removed by adding a line saying that the committee may approve use of the >>> data for sending other material relating to the association if it is deemed >>> reasonable. (Not in those exact words but that idea worded in a way that >>> ties in with the rest of the constitution). >>> > >>> >>> While I don?t think you envisage it being abused, it must never be up to >>> be leadership to approve or deny the ability of its members to discuss >>> things. Especially as it can be used to limit discussion of issues with the >>> leadership or the organisation?s direction. >>> >>> > Thanks >>> > >>> > Simon Lees >>> > >>> >> On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 3:45 PM Kathy Reid >> > wrote: >>> >> Thanks so much Wil and Jonathan - super helpful! >>> >> We have a clear way forward for anyone wanting to contribute to >>> >> changing the Constitution :-) >>> >> Best, Kathy >>> >>> On 19/12/2022 12:10 pm, Wil Brown wrote: >>> >>> Thanks, Kathy >>> >>> Since the initial ask for members' information was requested, we >>> >>> (the council) have discussed and noted that the current >>> >>> Constitution wording for section seven, specifically subsections >>> >>> three and four, likely need to be updated [1] to be 1) in line >>> >>> with changes to the NSW Fair Trading Act model constitution, 2) >>> >>> set a realistic time for response, 3) clarity of what data can be >>> >>> obtained, 4) what it can be used for and 5) how the constitution >>> >>> and privacy policies work together. >>> >>> We also noted that the timeframe between the then council meeting >>> >>> (October 26, 2022) and the upcoming AGM was unrealistic to discuss >>> >>> and implement the changes. We will raise this as an issue for the >>> >>> 2023 LA Council to action. >>> >>> In the meantime, we welcome all members to contribute to the >>> >>> discussion on this thread. >>> >>> Refs: >>> >>> [1] >>> >>> >>> https://linux.org.au/council-meeting-26th-october-2022-minutes/#:~:text=Do%20we%20need%20to%20change%20the%20wording%20in%20the%20constitution%20S7(3)%20and%20S7(4)%20to%20explicitly%20state%20what%20register%20data%20a%20member%20can%20receive%20upon%20request%3F >>> < >>> https://linux.org.au/council-meeting-26th-october-2022-minutes/#:~:text=Do%20we%20need%20to%20change%20the%20wording%20in%20the%20constitution%20S7(3)%20and%20S7(4)%20to%20explicitly%20state%20what%20register%20data%20a%20member%20can%20receive%20upon%20request%3F >>> > >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Wil. >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 11:02 AM Kathy Reid via linux-aus >>> >>> >> >>> > wrote: >>> >>> Hi folx, >>> >>> Firstly I hope that this note finds everyone safe, well and >>> >>> doing OK, >>> >>> after another challenging year on several fronts. >>> >>> Here, I'm weaving together several threads of discussion on >>> >>> the mailing >>> >>> list in an attempt to help the community forge a path ahead; >>> >>> this isn't >>> >>> Council endorsed - I'm doing this because I know how much >>> >>> Council has on >>> >>> at this time of year with end of year accounting, annual >>> >>> report and >>> >>> election preparation. They simply don't have time to get >>> >>> involved in >>> >>> discussions on list at the moment. So, I'm providing >>> >>> information that >>> >>> the community needs if they want to change the Constitution. I >>> >>> am going >>> >>> to remain neutral on whether the constitution *should* be >>> >>> changed - and >>> >>> limit the information here to the tools the community can use to >>> >>> *effect* change, if desired. >>> >>> CONSTITUTIONAL BACKGROUND >>> >>> Linux Australia is an incorporated association registered in >>> >>> the state >>> >>> of New South Wales. As such, the primary legislative authority >>> >>> is the >>> >>> Office of Fair Trading in NSW [1]. The primary underpinning >>> >>> legislation >>> >>> is the NSW Incorporated Associations Act 2009 (NSW) [2]. The >>> >>> legislation divides Associations into Tier 1 and Tier 2 >>> >>> organisations, >>> >>> depending on their size and assets. Linux Australia, due to its >>> >>> holdings, is a Tier 1 organisation. >>> >>> The Office of Fair Trading makes available a "model >>> >>> constitution" that >>> >>> associations can use as their association constitution - this >>> >>> gets >>> >>> updated from time to time, and was most recently updated >>> >>> earlier in the >>> >>> year [3]. For example, the new model constitution is more >>> >>> specific about >>> >>> elements such as the quorum required at general meetings. It >>> >>> provides an >>> >>> excellent basis for LA's constitution, but has had holes in it >>> >>> in the >>> >>> past. I haven't read the new one in depth, so cannot comment >>> >>> on it here. >>> >>> PREVIOUS CONSTITUTIONAL CHANGES >>> >>> Linux Australia has previously made constitutional changes, >>> >>> generally >>> >>> with the intent to come into compliance with the Act, or to >>> >>> remain >>> >>> compliant. Some of the organisational history here is before >>> >>> my time, >>> >>> but I've done my best to provide links to relevant changes. >>> >>> You'll note >>> >>> that community discussion on changes was, ah, equally vociferous. >>> >>> - In 2004, changes were made to allow the Secretary to approve >>> >>> memberships without needing approval by a Committee (Council) >>> >>> meeting >>> >>> (among others I think) [4] >>> >>> - In 2011, changes were made to align with the Act and I >>> >>> believe to move >>> >>> the financial year of the organisation to better align with >>> >>> conference >>> >>> financials [5] >>> >>> MAKING A CONSTITUTIONAL CHANGE >>> >>> In general, the Council has the power to make a constitutional >>> >>> change >>> >>> without consulting the membership. In practice, this has been >>> >>> discussed >>> >>> on this mailing list, and often put to a formal vote of >>> >>> members. For >>> >>> example, in 2017, a proposal to change the organisation's name >>> >>> was >>> >>> proposed (for transparency, by me in my capacity as >>> >>> then-President), and >>> >>> voted on as a motion at the upcoming AGM [6]. Once a decision >>> >>> has been >>> >>> arrived at, a member of the Council, or the organisation's public >>> >>> officer then contacts the Office of Fair Trading to update the >>> >>> Constitution. Fair Trading must agree to the change, and for this >>> >>> reason, Linux Australia will provide a rationale for the change - >>> >>> including, for example, results of a motion voted on at an AGM >>> >>> or SGM. >>> >>> MAKING CHANGE HAPPEN IN PRACTICE >>> >>> So, that's the *legislative* and *procedural* aspect of >>> >>> constitutional >>> >>> change for Linux Australia. In reality, the process of change >>> >>> often >>> >>> takes months of negotiation, discussion and debate on list. These >>> >>> discussions can get heated and occasionally, uncivil - so >>> >>> let's avoid >>> >>> that - but the energy here shows the passion that our >>> >>> membership has for >>> >>> creating structures that reflect our values and desired ways >>> >>> of working. >>> >>> WHAT NEXT? >>> >>> - If the community wishes to change the Constitution, you need >>> >>> to reach >>> >>> agreement on what you want to change it *to* >>> >>> - The Model Constitution is a good starting point. >>> >>> - In the past, GitHub has been used as a platform to >>> >>> transparently >>> >>> discuss and see changes and proposals - >>> >>> https://github.com/linuxaustralia >>> >>> . >>> >>> - When a loose consensus has been arrived at, the change is >>> >>> generally >>> >>> put up for voting on - at an AGM or SGM. They both have notice >>> >>> periods. >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> >>> Kathy Reid >>> >>> [1] >>> >>> >>> https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/associations-and-co-operatives/associations >>> < >>> https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/associations-and-co-operatives/associations >>> > >>> >>> [2] >>> >>> >>> https://legislation.nsw.gov.au/view/html/inforce/current/act-2009-007 < >>> https://legislation.nsw.gov.au/view/html/inforce/current/act-2009-007> >>> >>> [3] >>> >>> >>> https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/associations-and-co-operatives/associations/starting-an-association/model-constitution >>> < >>> https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/associations-and-co-operatives/associations/starting-an-association/model-constitution >>> > >>> >>> see also >>> >>> >>> https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/word_doc/0018/1102491/Model-Constitution-for-Associations-2022-3.docx >>> < >>> https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/word_doc/0018/1102491/Model-Constitution-for-Associations-2022-3.docx >>> > >>> >>> [4] 2004 - >>> >>> >>> https://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2004-January/009490.html >>> >> > >>> >>> [5] 2011 - >>> >>> >>> https://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2011-May/018832.html < >>> https://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2011-May/018832.html> >>> >>> [6] >>> >>> >>> https://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2017-December/023288.html >>> < >>> https://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2017-December/023288.html >>> > >>> > >>> >> linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > linux-aus mailing list >>> > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au >>> > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus >>> > >>> > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to >>> > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> linux-aus mailing list >>> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au >>> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to >>> linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au >> >> _______________________________________________ >> linux-aus mailing list >> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au >> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus >> >> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to >> linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -- Colin Fee tfeccles at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marcus at herstik.com Wed Jan 4 21:12:39 2023 From: marcus at herstik.com (Marcus Herstik) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 10:12:39 +0000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Constitutional background and towards a reformed constitution for Linux Australia In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From simon at simotek.net Wed Jan 4 21:56:01 2023 From: simon at simotek.net (Simon Lees) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 21:26:01 +1030 Subject: [Linux-aus] Constitutional background and towards a reformed constitution for Linux Australia In-Reply-To: References: <2f0a384e-1f3b-3860-f3ed-2abc8dd40180@simotek.net> <25B13013-A658-4571-83CC-476E2EB158C9@herstik.com> Message-ID: On 1/4/23 13:36, Matthew Lye via linux-aus wrote: > I've been following this conversation and agree with Marcus's comments > with one slight deviation regarding this point: > > > It would be reasonably simple to address this should that section be removed by adding a line saying that the committee may approve use of the data for sending other material relating to the association if it is deemed reasonable. (Not in those exact words but that idea worded in a way that ties in with the rest of the constitution). > > > While I don?t think you envisage it being abused, it must never be > up to be leadership to approve or deny the ability of its members to > discuss things. Especially as it can be used to limit discussion of > issues with the leadership or the organisation?s direction. > > > Would it not be fair to consider the ability for the members to > communicate within the membership group met by providing the mailing > list? Asking for additional details for the purposes of contacting > members seems redundant and highly prone to abuse. Legally there maybe issues with the fact that presumably not all members are on this list or have been asked to join this list when they became members. I am not a lawyer and am additionally not familiar with the NSW set up but in some jurisdictions an association being able to provide a full list of members and there contact details to relevant government departments should they ask (sometimes they like to check its not a sham organisation). But maintaining a list of information in case its requested by a regulatory body is different from maintaining a list and allowing all members to have access. As such Likely we would need a lawyer with relevant experience before going down this path. In South Australia I know updated constitutions need to be resubmitted and can be rejected in certain cases well atleast could be 10 years back. Cheers Simon From simon at simotek.net Wed Jan 4 22:11:21 2023 From: simon at simotek.net (Simon Lees) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 21:41:21 +1030 Subject: [Linux-aus] Constitutional background and towards a reformed constitution for Linux Australia In-Reply-To: <25B13013-A658-4571-83CC-476E2EB158C9@herstik.com> References: <2f0a384e-1f3b-3860-f3ed-2abc8dd40180@simotek.net> <25B13013-A658-4571-83CC-476E2EB158C9@herstik.com> Message-ID: On 1/4/23 09:11, Marcus Herstik wrote: >> >> Reason Three: >> I'm less sure that this is necessarily a reason that needs to be listed in the constitution but the fact its there means we don't really need to think about it. >> >> As far as I can tell the constitution doesn't list anywhere else what the committee and or any sub committees can equally do with the membership data. Other than that they are members and as such can request it. > > We are all equal members, some just have more responsibilities than others. > We should also consider incorporating if we aren?t already. If I am not on the council after election they should talk to a lawyer as to why. > >> Without the clause as currently written if say Linux Australia created a sub committee to review a certain topic and say this subcommittee was made up of non regular committee members, it isn't immediately obvious under current or maybe future privacy laws whether a member of such a sub committee or even a member of the current committee could use that membership information to send out a questionnaire or survey related to there review. >> > > Members of the org can ask for membership information - there is no restriction on the constitution as to reasoning. Therefore, if they are a sub-committee they can request it from the secretary and get it. > Use is covered by disciplinary actions available. > >> It would be reasonably simple to address this should that section be removed by adding a line saying that the committee may approve use of the data for sending other material relating to the association if it is deemed reasonable. (Not in those exact words but that idea worded in a way that ties in with the rest of the constitution). >> > > While I don?t think you envisage it being abused, it must never be up to be leadership to approve or deny the ability of its members to discuss things. Especially as it can be used to limit discussion of issues with the leadership or the organisation?s direction. I tend to agree with you here, my email was mostly just trying to point out the other effects that Wil's proposed change would have and providing some possible suggestion of changes that would need to go alongside it. At the end of the day if someone requests the data and uses it for a reason not listed in the constitution it is a violation of NSW Law and they could be charged and prosecuted. Cheers Simon From marcus at herstik.com Wed Jan 4 22:17:36 2023 From: marcus at herstik.com (Marcus Herstik) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 11:17:36 +0000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Constitutional background and towards a reformed constitution for Linux Australia In-Reply-To: <00a754c2-44d3-dffa-e580-1bc65469e03e@kathyreid.id.au> References: <00a754c2-44d3-dffa-e580-1bc65469e03e@kathyreid.id.au> Message-ID: I thought as much as I kind-of remember a vote about it. Or maybe that was another org so I could have been confused. Thanks for the confirmation- it definitely reduces risk to members. Regards, Marcus Herstik M: 0405-569-466 A: P.O. Box 2443, Burleigh Waters, QLD, 4220 > On 4 Jan 2023, at 4:43 am, Kathy Reid via linux-aus wrote: > > ? >> On 4/1/23 09:41, Marcus Herstik via linux-aus wrote: >> We should also consider incorporating if we aren?t already. If I am not on the council after election they should talk to a lawyer as to why. >> > Linux Australia Inc. is an incorporated association in NSW [1]. > > [1] https://linux.org.au/about-us/organisational-details/ > > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au From lloy0076 at adam.com.au Thu Jan 5 00:47:40 2023 From: lloy0076 at adam.com.au (David Lloyd) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 08:47:40 -0500 Subject: [Linux-aus] Constitutional background and towards a reformed constitution for Linux Australia In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What actually started off by a group of possibly burned out people (in a conference that is/was not an LCA) has basically given me a reason why I'm not sure I would want to actually be on the organisation's organising committee. Why would I waste my time trying to do the best I can for a community I was invested in, when the result is basically a full on discussion about ... the constitution and how I'm not running the organisation properly? DSL From russell-linuxaus at stuart.id.au Thu Jan 5 14:56:54 2023 From: russell-linuxaus at stuart.id.au (Russell Stuart) Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2023 13:56:54 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Constitutional background and towards a reformed constitution for Linux Australia In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 4/1/23 20:12, Marcus Herstik via linux-aus wrote: > Considering there is the option to suppress details, maybe we provide > an option of what the member wants to suppress rather than make their > mind up for them. The main issue in my mind, and I suspect in the minds of the other Exec members, is not what happens going forward for new members. I assume we can come to some compromise that works. An opt-in checkbox that prevents LA from releasing any identifiable data beyond their names unless checked does seem reasonable. The difficulty is what happens for existing members. LA has never released personal data the scale or level of detail you requested. I think it's reasonable to assume most members thought this would always be so, and perhaps even assumed the constitution would protect them. But the constitution harks from another era addresses were for snails and spamming required dead trees and real money. Now your request has made it obvious this may not be the case a few members have contacted us. I think "outraged" would be a fair description of their reaction. So the main issue on the Exec's mind is "how do we respect their wishes". TL;DR: the approach the Exec has taken so far is to assume that checkbox always existed, and no one clicked it. That's in line with our privacy policy. If it is any other way then for me, on a personal level, it creates serious issues with the data LA has about me and what LA does with it. I assume I would not be the only one. LA is free to join, and anybody can join by filling in a web form. Once you are a member, you are free to demand all information allowed by our constitution and (I hope) LA's policies, just as you have done. If we are forced to release all the contact information we have, then it's effectively open slather to all who want it. From secretary at linux.org.au Sat Jan 7 16:48:02 2023 From: secretary at linux.org.au (Linux Australia Secretary) Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2023 16:48:02 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Notice of Linux Australia 2023 Annual General Meeting (AGM) Message-ID: Pursuant to Clause (24) of the Linux Australia Constitution [1], I hereby give notice that the Annual General Meeting of the organisation will be held Saturday 21 January 2023 at 2:30pm AEDT (UTC+11). The meeting will be held by video conference using Zoom. Attendees must pre-register at this URL using the same email address that they use for Linux Australia's member site: https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZApceCqrj8qHtxWAseWhM-eaTvT5RBPNTh3 Once registered, you should receive a confirmation email (please remember to check your spam folder). The meeting will (a) confirm the minutes of the last preceding annual general meeting and of any special general meeting held since that meeting, (b) receive from the committee reports on the activities of the association during the last preceding financial year, (c) elect office-bearers of the association and ordinary committee members, or to announce the results of a ballot held prior to the annual general meeting under clause 15(5), (d) receive and consider any financial statement or report required to be submitted to members under the Act. Please find below the draft agenda for the AGM. I also hereby call for any agenda items to be tabled for discussion at the Annual General Meeting. With kind regards, Clinton Roy Secretary, Linux Australia [1] http://www.linux.org.au/constitution -- Agenda of Linux Australia - Annual General Meeting 2023 Saturday 21 January 2023, 2:30pm AEDT (UTC+11) Video conference via Zoom. 1. President?s welcome MR JOEL ADDISON, President To note: attendance will be recorded in the minutes 2. Approval of the minutes from the previous Annual General Meeting - 2022 MOTION by MR JOEL ADDISON that the minutes of the Annual General Meeting 2022 of Linux Australia be accepted as complete and accurate. The minutes are available at: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aK91S5O_G4eucM-3RRUThED5CYH1kx2PhnyNY8uT01A/edit?usp=sharing To be seconded and voted upon 3. To receive the REPORTS of activities of the preceding year from OFFICE BEARERS MR JOEL ADDISON - President MR RUSSELL STUART - Treasurer Includes presentation of the Auditor?s Report MR CLINTON ROY - Secretary MOTION by RUSSELL STUART that the Auditor?s Report is a true statement of financial accounts MOTION by JOEL ADDISON that the President?s report is correct MOTION by CLINTON ROY that the Secretary?s report is correct MOTION by RUSSELL STUART that the Treasurer?s report is correct MOTION by JOEL ADDISON that the actions of Council during 2022 are endorsed by the membership To be seconded and voted upon 4. To CONSIDER items tabled in the call for agenda items 5. DECLARATION of Election and WELCOME of incoming Council by the Returning Officer 6. NOMINATION and ELECTION of Members to Vacant Council Positions 7. To HEAR and RESPOND to questions from the floor -- Linux Australia Secretary linux.org.au Providing the logistical, financial and legal framework for Open Source events -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kathy at kathyreid.id.au Tue Jan 10 12:12:43 2023 From: kathy at kathyreid.id.au (Kathy Reid) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2023 12:12:43 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Notice of Linux Australia 2023 Annual General Meeting (AGM) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Clinton, Many thanks for the notice of the AGM. I wish to table the following item for inclusion in Section 4 of the Agenda: MOTION by Kathy Reid that the Linux Australia community endorse the actions of Council 2022 and thank them for their valued volunteer service. I now seek acceptance of this item into the Agenda, and call for a Second for the motion. With kind regards, Kathy Reid On 7/1/23 16:48, Linux Australia Secretary via linux-aus wrote: > > Pursuant to Clause (24) of the Linux Australia Constitution [1], I > > hereby give notice that the Annual General Meeting of the organisation > > will be held Saturday 21 January 2023 at 2:30pm AEDT (UTC+11). > > > The meeting will be held by video conference using Zoom. Attendees must > > pre-register at this URL using the same email address that they use for > > Linux Australia's member site: > > https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZApceCqrj8qHtxWAseWhM-eaTvT5RBPNTh3 > > > > Once registered, you should receive a confirmation email (please > remember to check your spam folder). > > > The meeting will > > > ???(a) confirm the minutes of the last preceding annual general meeting > > and of any special general meeting held since that meeting, > > ???(b) receive from the committee reports on the activities of the > > association during the last preceding financial year, > > ???(c) elect office-bearers of the association and ordinary committee > > members, or to announce the results of a ballot held prior to the annual > > general meeting under clause 15(5), > > ???(d) receive and consider any financial statement or report required > > to be submitted to members under the Act. > > > Please find below the draft agenda for the AGM. > > > I also hereby call for any agenda items to be tabled for discussion at > > the Annual General Meeting. > > > > With kind regards, > > Clinton Roy > > Secretary, Linux Australia > > > [1]http://www.linux.org.au/constitution > > > > -- > > > Agenda of Linux Australia - Annual General Meeting 2023 > > > Saturday 21 January 2023, 2:30pm AEDT (UTC+11) > > Video conference via Zoom. > > > 1. President?s welcome > > MR JOEL ADDISON, President > > > To note: attendance will be recorded in the minutes > > > 2. Approval of the minutes from the previous Annual General Meeting - 2022 > > > MOTION by MR JOEL ADDISON that the minutes of the Annual General > > Meeting 2022 of Linux Australia be accepted as complete and accurate. > > The minutes are available at: > > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aK91S5O_G4eucM-3RRUThED5CYH1kx2PhnyNY8uT01A/edit?usp=sharing > > > To be seconded and voted upon > > > 3. To receive the REPORTS of activities of the preceding year from > > OFFICE BEARERS > > > MR JOEL ADDISON - President > > MR RUSSELL STUART - Treasurer > > Includes presentation of the Auditor?s Report > > MR CLINTON ROY - Secretary > > > MOTION by RUSSELL STUART that the Auditor?s Report is a true statement of > > financial accounts > > MOTION by JOEL ADDISON that the President?s report is correct > > MOTION by CLINTON ROY that the Secretary?s report is correct > > MOTION by RUSSELL STUART that the Treasurer?s report is correct > > MOTION by JOEL ADDISON that the actions of Council during 2022 are > endorsed by > > the membership > > > To be seconded and voted upon > > > 4. To CONSIDER items tabled in the call for agenda items > > > 5. DECLARATION of Election and WELCOME of incoming Council by the > > Returning Officer > > > 6. NOMINATION and ELECTION of Members to Vacant Council Positions > > > > > 7. To HEAR and RESPOND to questions from the floor > > > > > > -- > Linux Australia Secretary > linux.org.au > Providing the logistical, financial and legal framework for Open > Source events > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From s.germaine at gmail.com Tue Jan 10 12:29:29 2023 From: s.germaine at gmail.com (Sae Ra Germaine) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2023 12:29:29 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Notice of Linux Australia 2023 Annual General Meeting (AGM) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Kathy, I would like to second this motion. Thanks Sae Ra On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 at 12:13, Kathy Reid via linux-aus < linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > Dear Clinton, > > > Many thanks for the notice of the AGM. > > I wish to table the following item for inclusion in Section 4 of the > Agenda: > > MOTION by Kathy Reid that the Linux Australia community endorse the > actions of Council 2022 and thank them for their valued volunteer service. > > I now seek acceptance of this item into the Agenda, and call for a Second > for the motion. > > > With kind regards, > > Kathy Reid > > > > On 7/1/23 16:48, Linux Australia Secretary via linux-aus wrote: > > Pursuant to Clause (24) of the Linux Australia Constitution [1], I > > hereby give notice that the Annual General Meeting of the organisation > > will be held Saturday 21 January 2023 at 2:30pm AEDT (UTC+11). > > The meeting will be held by video conference using Zoom. Attendees must > > pre-register at this URL using the same email address that they use for > > Linux Australia's member site: > > > https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZApceCqrj8qHtxWAseWhM-eaTvT5RBPNTh3 > > > Once registered, you should receive a confirmation email (please remember > to check your spam folder). > > The meeting will > > (a) confirm the minutes of the last preceding annual general meeting > > and of any special general meeting held since that meeting, > > (b) receive from the committee reports on the activities of the > > association during the last preceding financial year, > > (c) elect office-bearers of the association and ordinary committee > > members, or to announce the results of a ballot held prior to the annual > > general meeting under clause 15(5), > > (d) receive and consider any financial statement or report required > > to be submitted to members under the Act. > > Please find below the draft agenda for the AGM. > > I also hereby call for any agenda items to be tabled for discussion at > > the Annual General Meeting. > > > With kind regards, > > Clinton Roy > > Secretary, Linux Australia > > [1] http://www.linux.org.au/constitution > > -- > > Agenda of Linux Australia - Annual General Meeting 2023 > > Saturday 21 January 2023, 2:30pm AEDT (UTC+11) > > Video conference via Zoom. > > 1. President?s welcome > > MR JOEL ADDISON, President > > To note: attendance will be recorded in the minutes > > 2. Approval of the minutes from the previous Annual General Meeting - 2022 > > MOTION by MR JOEL ADDISON that the minutes of the Annual General > > Meeting 2022 of Linux Australia be accepted as complete and accurate. > > The minutes are available at: > > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aK91S5O_G4eucM-3RRUThED5CYH1kx2PhnyNY8uT01A/edit?usp=sharing > > To be seconded and voted upon > > 3. To receive the REPORTS of activities of the preceding year from > > OFFICE BEARERS > > MR JOEL ADDISON - President > > MR RUSSELL STUART - Treasurer > > Includes presentation of the Auditor?s Report > > MR CLINTON ROY - Secretary > > MOTION by RUSSELL STUART that the Auditor?s Report is a true statement of > > financial accounts > > MOTION by JOEL ADDISON that the President?s report is correct > > MOTION by CLINTON ROY that the Secretary?s report is correct > > MOTION by RUSSELL STUART that the Treasurer?s report is correct > > MOTION by JOEL ADDISON that the actions of Council during 2022 are > endorsed by > > the membership > > To be seconded and voted upon > > 4. To CONSIDER items tabled in the call for agenda items > > 5. DECLARATION of Election and WELCOME of incoming Council by the > > Returning Officer > > 6. NOMINATION and ELECTION of Members to Vacant Council Positions > > > > 7. To HEAR and RESPOND to questions from the floor > > > > > -- > Linux Australia Secretary > linux.org.au > Providing the logistical, financial and legal framework for Open Source > events > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing listlinux-aus at lists.linux.org.auhttp://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email tolinux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From craige at mcwhirter.com.au Tue Jan 10 14:33:00 2023 From: craige at mcwhirter.com.au (Craige McWhirter) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2023 13:33:00 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Notice of Linux Australia 2023 Annual General Meeting (AGM) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20230110033300.fbxr2pigd45h4fc4@dionach> I'm an apology for this AGM due to it's timing conflicting with existing commitments. Most prior AGMs, apart from being held in person, have also been held in the evenings. I'd like to recommend to the incoming committee that a return to evenings be considered for future AGMs, whether they be in person or online. Thanks :-) On Sat, Jan 07, 2023 at 16:48:02 +1100, Linux Australia Secretary via linux-aus wrote: > Pursuant to Clause (24) of the Linux Australia Constitution [1], I > > hereby give notice that the Annual General Meeting of the > organisation > > will be held Saturday 21 January 2023 at 2:30pm AEDT (UTC+11). > > The meeting will be held by video conference using Zoom. Attendees > must > > pre-register at this URL using the same email address that they use > for > > Linux Australia's member site: > > https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZApceCqrj8qHtxWAseWhM-eaTvT > 5RBPNTh3? > > Once registered, you should receive a confirmation email (please > remember to check your spam folder). > > The meeting will > > ? ? ? (a) confirm the minutes of the last preceding annual general > meeting > > and of any special general meeting held since that meeting, > > ? ? ? (b) receive from the committee reports on the activities of the > > association during the last preceding financial year, > > ? ? ? (c) elect office-bearers of the association and ordinary > committee > > members, or to announce the results of a ballot held prior to the > annual > > general meeting under clause 15(5), > > ? ? ? (d) receive and consider any financial statement or report > required > > to be submitted to members under the Act. > > Please find below the draft agenda for the AGM. > > I also hereby call for any agenda items to be tabled for discussion > at > > the Annual General Meeting. > > With kind regards, > > Clinton Roy > > Secretary, Linux Australia > > [1] http://www.linux.org.au/constitution > > -- > > Agenda of Linux Australia - Annual General Meeting 2023 > > Saturday 21 January 2023, 2:30pm AEDT (UTC+11) > > Video conference via Zoom. > > 1. President?s welcome > > MR JOEL ADDISON, President > > To note: attendance will be recorded in the minutes > > 2. Approval of the minutes from the previous Annual General Meeting - > 2022 > > MOTION by MR JOEL ADDISON that the minutes of the Annual General > > Meeting 2022 of Linux Australia be accepted as complete and accurate. > > The minutes are available at: > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aK91S5O_G4eucM-3RRUThED5CYH1kx2Ph > nyNY8uT01A/edit?usp=sharing > > To be seconded and voted upon > > 3. To receive the REPORTS of activities of the preceding year from > > OFFICE BEARERS > > MR JOEL ADDISON - President > > MR RUSSELL STUART - Treasurer > > Includes presentation of the Auditor?s Report > > MR CLINTON ROY - Secretary > > MOTION by RUSSELL STUART that the Auditor?s Report is a true > statement of > > financial accounts > > MOTION by JOEL ADDISON that the President?s report is correct > > MOTION by CLINTON ROY that the Secretary?s report is correct > > MOTION by RUSSELL STUART that the Treasurer?s report is correct > > MOTION by JOEL ADDISON that the actions of Council during 2022 are > endorsed by > > the membership > > To be seconded and voted upon > > 4. To CONSIDER items tabled in the call for agenda items > > 5. DECLARATION of Election and WELCOME of incoming Council by the > > Returning Officer > > 6. NOMINATION and ELECTION of Members to Vacant Council Positions > > > > 7. To HEAR and RESPOND to questions from the floor > -- > Linux Australia Secretary > linux.org.au > Providing the logistical, financial and legal framework for Open > Source events > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -- Craige McWhirter Signal: +61 4685 91819 Matrix: @craige:mcwhirter.io Mastodon: @craige at mcwhirter.io -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 833 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kathy at kathyreid.id.au Tue Jan 10 14:59:40 2023 From: kathy at kathyreid.id.au (Kathy Reid) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2023 14:59:40 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Notice of Linux Australia 2023 Annual General Meeting (AGM) In-Reply-To: <20230110033300.fbxr2pigd45h4fc4@dionach> References: <20230110033300.fbxr2pigd45h4fc4@dionach> Message-ID: <89449235-a7e9-7033-8ca2-2b44f0d2c759@kathyreid.id.au> No. Holding professional events outside of business hours makes it difficult for people who have caring requirements - who are often women - to attend those events. This is often a barrier to participation for people becoming involved in organisations, for networking, and for professional development. Holding the AGM at say 7pm, outside of a conference setting, where childcare is often provided, means this overlaps with things like dinner prep, putting children to bed, and other caring requirements. Equity actions aren't just symbolic - they also need to be practical - like not holding an AGM during childrens' bathtime and bedtime. Regards, Kathy Reid On 10/1/23 14:33, Craige McWhirter via linux-aus wrote: > I'm an apology for this AGM due to it's timing conflicting with existing > commitments. > > Most prior AGMs, apart from being held in person, have also been held in the > evenings. > > I'd like to recommend to the incoming committee that a return to evenings be > considered for future AGMs, whether they be in person or online. > > Thanks :-) > > On Sat, Jan 07, 2023 at 16:48:02 +1100, Linux Australia Secretary via linux-aus wrote: >> Pursuant to Clause (24) of the Linux Australia Constitution [1], I >> >> hereby give notice that the Annual General Meeting of the >> organisation >> >> will be held Saturday 21 January 2023 at 2:30pm AEDT (UTC+11). >> >> The meeting will be held by video conference using Zoom. Attendees >> must >> >> pre-register at this URL using the same email address that they use >> for >> >> Linux Australia's member site: >> >> https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZApceCqrj8qHtxWAseWhM-eaTvT >> 5RBPNTh3? >> >> Once registered, you should receive a confirmation email (please >> remember to check your spam folder). >> >> The meeting will >> >> ? ? ? (a) confirm the minutes of the last preceding annual general >> meeting >> >> and of any special general meeting held since that meeting, >> >> ? ? ? (b) receive from the committee reports on the activities of the >> >> association during the last preceding financial year, >> >> ? ? ? (c) elect office-bearers of the association and ordinary >> committee >> >> members, or to announce the results of a ballot held prior to the >> annual >> >> general meeting under clause 15(5), >> >> ? ? ? (d) receive and consider any financial statement or report >> required >> >> to be submitted to members under the Act. >> >> Please find below the draft agenda for the AGM. >> >> I also hereby call for any agenda items to be tabled for discussion >> at >> >> the Annual General Meeting. >> >> With kind regards, >> >> Clinton Roy >> >> Secretary, Linux Australia >> >> [1] http://www.linux.org.au/constitution >> >> -- >> >> Agenda of Linux Australia - Annual General Meeting 2023 >> >> Saturday 21 January 2023, 2:30pm AEDT (UTC+11) >> >> Video conference via Zoom. >> >> 1. President?s welcome >> >> MR JOEL ADDISON, President >> >> To note: attendance will be recorded in the minutes >> >> 2. Approval of the minutes from the previous Annual General Meeting - >> 2022 >> >> MOTION by MR JOEL ADDISON that the minutes of the Annual General >> >> Meeting 2022 of Linux Australia be accepted as complete and accurate. >> >> The minutes are available at: >> >> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aK91S5O_G4eucM-3RRUThED5CYH1kx2Ph >> nyNY8uT01A/edit?usp=sharing >> >> To be seconded and voted upon >> >> 3. To receive the REPORTS of activities of the preceding year from >> >> OFFICE BEARERS >> >> MR JOEL ADDISON - President >> >> MR RUSSELL STUART - Treasurer >> >> Includes presentation of the Auditor?s Report >> >> MR CLINTON ROY - Secretary >> >> MOTION by RUSSELL STUART that the Auditor?s Report is a true >> statement of >> >> financial accounts >> >> MOTION by JOEL ADDISON that the President?s report is correct >> >> MOTION by CLINTON ROY that the Secretary?s report is correct >> >> MOTION by RUSSELL STUART that the Treasurer?s report is correct >> >> MOTION by JOEL ADDISON that the actions of Council during 2022 are >> endorsed by >> >> the membership >> >> To be seconded and voted upon >> >> 4. To CONSIDER items tabled in the call for agenda items >> >> 5. DECLARATION of Election and WELCOME of incoming Council by the >> >> Returning Officer >> >> 6. NOMINATION and ELECTION of Members to Vacant Council Positions >> >> >> >> 7. To HEAR and RESPOND to questions from the floor >> -- >> Linux Australia Secretary >> linux.org.au >> Providing the logistical, financial and legal framework for Open >> Source events >> _______________________________________________ >> linux-aus mailing list >> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au >> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus >> >> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to >> linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au > > -- > Craige McWhirter > Signal: +61 4685 91819 > Matrix: @craige:mcwhirter.io > Mastodon: @craige at mcwhirter.io > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au From andrew at donnellan.id.au Tue Jan 10 15:23:54 2023 From: andrew at donnellan.id.au (Andrew Donnellan) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2023 15:23:54 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Notice of Linux Australia 2023 Annual General Meeting (AGM) In-Reply-To: <89449235-a7e9-7033-8ca2-2b44f0d2c759@kathyreid.id.au> References: <20230110033300.fbxr2pigd45h4fc4@dionach> <89449235-a7e9-7033-8ca2-2b44f0d2c759@kathyreid.id.au> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 at 15:00, Kathy Reid via linux-aus < linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > No. > > Holding professional events outside of business hours makes it difficult > for people who have caring requirements - who are often women - to > attend those events. This is often a barrier to participation for people > becoming involved in organisations, for networking, and for professional > development. > > Holding the AGM at say 7pm, outside of a conference setting, where > childcare is often provided, means this overlaps with things like dinner > prep, putting children to bed, and other caring requirements. > > Equity actions aren't just symbolic - they also need to be practical - > like not holding an AGM during childrens' bathtime and bedtime. > And of course the scheduled date is a Saturday, so it's got the advantage of being both outside standard working hours and inside daylight hours! In a large organisation there's never going to be a time that suits everyone, as we all have a range of commitments. IME running other organisations, weekend daytimes are often the best balance for meetings like AGMs where large numbers of people are being invited. Kathy makes a good point that evenings are usually harder for those with caring responsibilities, and regardless of whether you have caring responsibilities, many of us have too many weeknight events for other groups or organisations already. Of course, members who have something particular that they want to raise or vote on at a meeting they can't attend can and should appoint a proxy. Andrew > > Regards, > > Kathy Reid > > > On 10/1/23 14:33, Craige McWhirter via linux-aus wrote: > > I'm an apology for this AGM due to it's timing conflicting with existing > > commitments. > > > > Most prior AGMs, apart from being held in person, have also been held in > the > > evenings. > > > > I'd like to recommend to the incoming committee that a return to > evenings be > > considered for future AGMs, whether they be in person or online. > > > > Thanks :-) > > > > On Sat, Jan 07, 2023 at 16:48:02 +1100, Linux Australia Secretary via > linux-aus wrote: > >> Pursuant to Clause (24) of the Linux Australia Constitution [1], I > >> > >> hereby give notice that the Annual General Meeting of the > >> organisation > >> > >> will be held Saturday 21 January 2023 at 2:30pm AEDT (UTC+11). > >> > >> The meeting will be held by video conference using Zoom. Attendees > >> must > >> > >> pre-register at this URL using the same email address that they use > >> for > >> > >> Linux Australia's member site: > >> > >> > https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZApceCqrj8qHtxWAseWhM-eaTvT > >> 5RBPNTh3? > >> > >> Once registered, you should receive a confirmation email (please > >> remember to check your spam folder). > >> > >> The meeting will > >> > >> ? ? ? (a) confirm the minutes of the last preceding annual general > >> meeting > >> > >> and of any special general meeting held since that meeting, > >> > >> ? ? ? (b) receive from the committee reports on the activities of > the > >> > >> association during the last preceding financial year, > >> > >> ? ? ? (c) elect office-bearers of the association and ordinary > >> committee > >> > >> members, or to announce the results of a ballot held prior to the > >> annual > >> > >> general meeting under clause 15(5), > >> > >> ? ? ? (d) receive and consider any financial statement or report > >> required > >> > >> to be submitted to members under the Act. > >> > >> Please find below the draft agenda for the AGM. > >> > >> I also hereby call for any agenda items to be tabled for discussion > >> at > >> > >> the Annual General Meeting. > >> > >> With kind regards, > >> > >> Clinton Roy > >> > >> Secretary, Linux Australia > >> > >> [1] http://www.linux.org.au/constitution > >> > >> -- > >> > >> Agenda of Linux Australia - Annual General Meeting 2023 > >> > >> Saturday 21 January 2023, 2:30pm AEDT (UTC+11) > >> > >> Video conference via Zoom. > >> > >> 1. President?s welcome > >> > >> MR JOEL ADDISON, President > >> > >> To note: attendance will be recorded in the minutes > >> > >> 2. Approval of the minutes from the previous Annual General Meeting > - > >> 2022 > >> > >> MOTION by MR JOEL ADDISON that the minutes of the Annual General > >> > >> Meeting 2022 of Linux Australia be accepted as complete and > accurate. > >> > >> The minutes are available at: > >> > >> > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aK91S5O_G4eucM-3RRUThED5CYH1kx2Ph > >> nyNY8uT01A/edit?usp=sharing > >> > >> To be seconded and voted upon > >> > >> 3. To receive the REPORTS of activities of the preceding year from > >> > >> OFFICE BEARERS > >> > >> MR JOEL ADDISON - President > >> > >> MR RUSSELL STUART - Treasurer > >> > >> Includes presentation of the Auditor?s Report > >> > >> MR CLINTON ROY - Secretary > >> > >> MOTION by RUSSELL STUART that the Auditor?s Report is a true > >> statement of > >> > >> financial accounts > >> > >> MOTION by JOEL ADDISON that the President?s report is correct > >> > >> MOTION by CLINTON ROY that the Secretary?s report is correct > >> > >> MOTION by RUSSELL STUART that the Treasurer?s report is correct > >> > >> MOTION by JOEL ADDISON that the actions of Council during 2022 are > >> endorsed by > >> > >> the membership > >> > >> To be seconded and voted upon > >> > >> 4. To CONSIDER items tabled in the call for agenda items > >> > >> 5. DECLARATION of Election and WELCOME of incoming Council by the > >> > >> Returning Officer > >> > >> 6. NOMINATION and ELECTION of Members to Vacant Council Positions > >> > >> > >> > >> 7. To HEAR and RESPOND to questions from the floor > >> -- > >> Linux Australia Secretary > >> linux.org.au > >> Providing the logistical, financial and legal framework for Open > >> Source events > >> _______________________________________________ > >> linux-aus mailing list > >> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > >> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > >> > >> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > >> linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au > > > > -- > > Craige McWhirter > > Signal: +61 4685 91819 > > Matrix: @craige:mcwhirter.io > > Mastodon: @craige at mcwhirter.io > > > > _______________________________________________ > > linux-aus mailing list > > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -- Andrew Donnellan http://andrew.donnellan.id.au andrew at donnellan.id.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From craige at mcwhirter.com.au Tue Jan 10 16:00:20 2023 From: craige at mcwhirter.com.au (Craige McWhirter) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2023 15:00:20 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Notice of Linux Australia 2023 Annual General Meeting (AGM) In-Reply-To: <89449235-a7e9-7033-8ca2-2b44f0d2c759@kathyreid.id.au> References: <20230110033300.fbxr2pigd45h4fc4@dionach> <89449235-a7e9-7033-8ca2-2b44f0d2c759@kathyreid.id.au> Message-ID: <20230110050020.7b62xqm7uzb4wc6m@dionach> Hi Kathy On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 14:59:40 +1100, Kathy Reid via linux-aus wrote: > No. Thank you for your response but my email was adressed to the incoming committee for their consideration. > Holding professional events outside of business hours makes it difficult for > people who have caring requirements - who are often women - to attend those > events. This is often a barrier to participation for people becoming > involved in organisations, for networking, and for professional development. Saturday at 14:30 _is_ already outside business hours and I'm unavailable due to caring responsobilities myself. It is far easier to shift my meal preparation by cooking the day prior and re-heating for example, than to shift physical care requirements. As a carer now for 25 years, I have a little experience in the field but I welcome your fresh insights. > On 10/1/23 14:33, Craige McWhirter via linux-aus wrote: > > I'm an apology for this AGM due to it's timing conflicting with existing > > commitments. > > > > Most prior AGMs, apart from being held in person, have also been held in the > > evenings. > > > > I'd like to recommend to the incoming committee that a return to evenings be > > considered for future AGMs, whether they be in person or online. > > > > Thanks :-) > > > > On Sat, Jan 07, 2023 at 16:48:02 +1100, Linux Australia Secretary via linux-aus wrote: > > > Pursuant to Clause (24) of the Linux Australia Constitution [1], I > > > > > > hereby give notice that the Annual General Meeting of the > > > organisation > > > > > > will be held Saturday 21 January 2023 at 2:30pm AEDT (UTC+11). > > > > > > The meeting will be held by video conference using Zoom. Attendees > > > must > > > > > > pre-register at this URL using the same email address that they use > > > for > > > > > > Linux Australia's member site: > > > > > > https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZApceCqrj8qHtxWAseWhM-eaTvT > > > 5RBPNTh3? > > > > > > Once registered, you should receive a confirmation email (please > > > remember to check your spam folder). > > > > > > The meeting will > > > > > > ? ? ? (a) confirm the minutes of the last preceding annual general > > > meeting > > > > > > and of any special general meeting held since that meeting, > > > > > > ? ? ? (b) receive from the committee reports on the activities of the > > > > > > association during the last preceding financial year, > > > > > > ? ? ? (c) elect office-bearers of the association and ordinary > > > committee > > > > > > members, or to announce the results of a ballot held prior to the > > > annual > > > > > > general meeting under clause 15(5), > > > > > > ? ? ? (d) receive and consider any financial statement or report > > > required > > > > > > to be submitted to members under the Act. > > > > > > Please find below the draft agenda for the AGM. > > > > > > I also hereby call for any agenda items to be tabled for discussion > > > at > > > > > > the Annual General Meeting. > > > > > > With kind regards, > > > > > > Clinton Roy > > > > > > Secretary, Linux Australia > > > > > > [1] http://www.linux.org.au/constitution > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Agenda of Linux Australia - Annual General Meeting 2023 > > > > > > Saturday 21 January 2023, 2:30pm AEDT (UTC+11) > > > > > > Video conference via Zoom. > > > > > > 1. President?s welcome > > > > > > MR JOEL ADDISON, President > > > > > > To note: attendance will be recorded in the minutes > > > > > > 2. Approval of the minutes from the previous Annual General Meeting - > > > 2022 > > > > > > MOTION by MR JOEL ADDISON that the minutes of the Annual General > > > > > > Meeting 2022 of Linux Australia be accepted as complete and accurate. > > > > > > The minutes are available at: > > > > > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aK91S5O_G4eucM-3RRUThED5CYH1kx2Ph > > > nyNY8uT01A/edit?usp=sharing > > > > > > To be seconded and voted upon > > > > > > 3. To receive the REPORTS of activities of the preceding year from > > > > > > OFFICE BEARERS > > > > > > MR JOEL ADDISON - President > > > > > > MR RUSSELL STUART - Treasurer > > > > > > Includes presentation of the Auditor?s Report > > > > > > MR CLINTON ROY - Secretary > > > > > > MOTION by RUSSELL STUART that the Auditor?s Report is a true > > > statement of > > > > > > financial accounts > > > > > > MOTION by JOEL ADDISON that the President?s report is correct > > > > > > MOTION by CLINTON ROY that the Secretary?s report is correct > > > > > > MOTION by RUSSELL STUART that the Treasurer?s report is correct > > > > > > MOTION by JOEL ADDISON that the actions of Council during 2022 are > > > endorsed by > > > > > > the membership > > > > > > To be seconded and voted upon > > > > > > 4. To CONSIDER items tabled in the call for agenda items > > > > > > 5. DECLARATION of Election and WELCOME of incoming Council by the > > > > > > Returning Officer > > > > > > 6. NOMINATION and ELECTION of Members to Vacant Council Positions > > > > > > > > > > > > 7. To HEAR and RESPOND to questions from the floor > > > -- > > > Linux Australia Secretary > > > linux.org.au > > > Providing the logistical, financial and legal framework for Open > > > Source events > > > _______________________________________________ > > > linux-aus mailing list > > > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > > > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > > > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au > > > > -- > > Craige McWhirter > > Signal: +61 4685 91819 > > Matrix: @craige:mcwhirter.io > > Mastodon: @craige at mcwhirter.io > > > > _______________________________________________ > > linux-aus mailing list > > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -- Craige McWhirter Signal: +61 4685 91819 Matrix: @craige:mcwhirter.io Mastodon: @craige at mcwhirter.io -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 833 bytes Desc: not available URL: From paulway at mabula.net Tue Jan 10 21:17:54 2023 From: paulway at mabula.net (Paul Wayper) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2023 21:17:54 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Notice of Linux Australia 2023 Annual General Meeting (AGM) In-Reply-To: <89449235-a7e9-7033-8ca2-2b44f0d2c759@kathyreid.id.au> References: <20230110033300.fbxr2pigd45h4fc4@dionach> <89449235-a7e9-7033-8ca2-2b44f0d2c759@kathyreid.id.au> Message-ID: <777817a3-c668-3221-e777-492de17e8a61@mabula.net> On 10/1/23 2:59 pm, Kathy Reid via linux-aus wrote: > No. > > Holding professional events outside of business hours makes it difficult for > people who have caring requirements - who are often women - to attend those > events. This is often a barrier to participation for people becoming > involved in organisations, for networking, and for professional development. Hi Kathy, While your passion for equality is noble, I'm wondering whether in this particular context its well placed. What would you say was the proportion of women in the Linux Australia membership? In the past the AGM has often been held after 5:30PM on the Monday of LCA.? Is this also something you expect to change to accommodate women carers?? It's strange that we haven't heard from you on this yet. Since 2:30PM on a Saturday would also expect to see carers at home - is that time and date also a problem in your opinion? I think the time and date is the best accommodation to the fact that - at a rough guess, just from looking around at some of the previous AGMs - most of our membership are full-time workers that are still working, and this is more likely to find them at home and at a time where they can more easily juggle their family and other commitments.? I'm wondering if you see it that way? As we've seen, Craige still has carer commitments at this time and he's given his respectful apologies.? Sadly, we can't accommodate everyone, can we? Regards, Paul -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nick at nicholasperkins.com Tue Jan 10 23:09:19 2023 From: nick at nicholasperkins.com (Nicholas Perkins) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2023 22:09:19 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Notice of Linux Australia 2023 Annual General Meeting (AGM) In-Reply-To: <777817a3-c668-3221-e777-492de17e8a61@mabula.net> References: <20230110033300.fbxr2pigd45h4fc4@dionach> <89449235-a7e9-7033-8ca2-2b44f0d2c759@kathyreid.id.au> <777817a3-c668-3221-e777-492de17e8a61@mabula.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Jan 2023, 8:18 pm Paul Wayper via linux-aus, < linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > On 10/1/23 2:59 pm, Kathy Reid via linux-aus wrote: > > No. > > Holding professional events outside of business hours makes it difficult > for people who have caring requirements - who are often women - to attend > those events. This is often a barrier to participation for people becoming > involved in organisations, for networking, and for professional > development. > > Hi Kathy, > > While your passion for equality is noble, I'm wondering whether in this > particular context its well placed. > I'm not sure your response could be more patronising. > What would you say was the proportion of women in the Linux Australia > membership? > Why should this matter? Shouldn't events and meetings be held at times that enable as many people of any gender to attend? > In the past the AGM has often been held after 5:30PM on the Monday of > LCA. Is this also something you expect to change to accommodate women > carers? It's strange that we haven't heard from you on this yet. > Until recently it was difficult for me to be away from home for extended periods due to carer responsibilities. Many carers are not women. > Since 2:30PM on a Saturday would also expect to see carers at home - is > that time and date also a problem in your opinion? > > I think the time and date is the best accommodation to the fact that - at > a rough guess, just from looking around at some of the previous AGMs - most > of our membership are full-time workers that are still working, and this is > more likely to find them at home and at a time where they can more easily > juggle their family and other commitments. I'm wondering if you see it > that way? > Here's the sad bit. I agree with some of your points here. If perhaps you hadn't taken to responding in what can only be seen as a patronising and misogynistic fashion... > As we've seen, Craige still has carer commitments at this time and he's > given his respectful apologies. Sadly, we can't accommodate everyone, can > we? > Regards, > > Paul > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From craige at mcwhirter.com.au Wed Jan 11 09:11:22 2023 From: craige at mcwhirter.com.au (Craige McWhirter) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2023 08:11:22 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Notice of Linux Australia 2023 Annual General Meeting (AGM) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20230110221122.i6gdwlb4jclr3hmq@dionach> Hi Clinton, I would like the following item considered for inclusion in Section 4 of our agenda: MOTION by Craige McWhirter that the roles of President and Vice President be renamed to Convenor and Co-Convenor respectively. I seek acceptance of this item into our agenda and call for a second for the motion. Context: as brief as I can keep it :-) Over the last 30 or so years of the FLOSS community in Australia, that Linux Australia represents, a hallmark of that community has been flat, non-hierarchical collaboration and mutual aid in relationship to FLOSS and related techonologies and empowering each other to achieve our goals, what ever those goals are for each of us. Our organisation has from the outset used the default term "President" which is intrinsically heirarchical and authoritarian. It is my opinion that the term "President" is not reflective of our community and it is perhaps time to reconsider the default, template titles we accepted in the 90's and discuss whether the title "Convenor" is more in line with our community as I believe it is. While as far as organisational powers go, changing to title makes no difference, it has been my experience that the psychological and cultural differences are far reaching and therefore worth our consideration. It would be great to see this discussed at the AGM, should anyone see fit to second this. Thanks :-) -- Craige McWhirter Signal: +61 4685 91819 Matrix: @craige:mcwhirter.io Mastodon: @craige at mcwhirter.io -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 833 bytes Desc: not available URL: From s.germaine at gmail.com Wed Jan 11 09:20:50 2023 From: s.germaine at gmail.com (Sae Ra Germaine) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2023 09:20:50 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Notice of Linux Australia 2023 Annual General Meeting (AGM) In-Reply-To: <20230110221122.i6gdwlb4jclr3hmq@dionach> References: <20230110221122.i6gdwlb4jclr3hmq@dionach> Message-ID: Hi Craige, Thank you for putting this suggestion forward but to make this happen would require a Constitutional change as the term President etc are named titles/terms used in the Constitution ( https://linux.org.au/about-us/constitution/). If this is something the community would like to see (maybe it's a "discussion" at the AGM rather than a Motion) then I would recommend this be added to the review of the constitution (to be conducted after this AGM) which can be voted on at another AGM/SGM. Would this be a valid way forward for you? Thanks, Sae Ra On Wed, 11 Jan 2023 at 09:11, Craige McWhirter via linux-aus < linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > Hi Clinton, > > I would like the following item considered for inclusion in Section 4 of > our > agenda: > > MOTION by Craige McWhirter that the roles of President and Vice President > be > renamed to Convenor and Co-Convenor respectively. > > I seek acceptance of this item into our agenda and call for a second for > the motion. > > > Context: as brief as I can keep it :-) > > Over the last 30 or so years of the FLOSS community in Australia, that > Linux > Australia represents, a hallmark of that community has been flat, > non-hierarchical collaboration and mutual aid in relationship to FLOSS and > related techonologies and empowering each other to achieve our goals, what > ever > those goals are for each of us. > > Our organisation has from the outset used the default term "President" > which is > intrinsically heirarchical and authoritarian. > > It is my opinion that the term "President" is not reflective of our > community > and it is perhaps time to reconsider the default, template titles we > accepted in > the 90's and discuss whether the title "Convenor" is more in line with our > community as I believe it is. > > While as far as organisational powers go, changing to title makes no > difference, it has been my experience that the psychological and cultural > differences are far reaching and therefore worth our consideration. > > It would be great to see this discussed at the AGM, should anyone see fit > to > second this. > > Thanks :-) > > -- > Craige McWhirter > Signal: +61 4685 91819 > Matrix: @craige:mcwhirter.io > Mastodon: @craige at mcwhirter.io > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paulway at mabula.net Wed Jan 11 10:15:31 2023 From: paulway at mabula.net (Paul Wayper) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2023 10:15:31 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Notice of Linux Australia 2023 Annual GeneralMeeting (AGM) In-Reply-To: References: <20230110033300.fbxr2pigd45h4fc4@dionach> <89449235-a7e9-7033-8ca2-2b44f0d2c759@kathyreid.id.au> <777817a3-c668-3221-e777-492de17e8a61@mabula.net> Message-ID: <5c012033-bf1f-4a9e-afba-f677f8107ca8@app.fastmail.com> On Tue, Jan 10, 2023, at 11:09 PM, Nicholas Perkins via linux-aus wrote: > On Tue, 10 Jan 2023, 8:18 pm Paul Wayper via linux-aus, wrote: >> On 10/1/23 2:59 pm, Kathy Reid via linux-aus wrote: >>> No. >>> >>> Holding professional events outside of business hours makes it difficult for people who have caring requirements - who are often women - to attend those events. This is often a barrier to participation for people becoming involved in organisations, for networking, and for professional development. >> Hi Kathy, >> >> While your passion for equality is noble, I'm wondering whether in this particular context its well placed. >> > I'm not sure your response could be more patronising. Oh, Nicholas, let me lay your doubts to rest - I can be _way_ more patronising than that. But why insult me? Why read Kathy's email charitably and mine as patronising? What's your point, here? I agree with Kathy that Linux Australia should be more diverse and inclusive, and should consider those issues in its choice of meeting times. But for Kathy to uncritically accept Saturday at 2:30PM AEDT as a meeting time (for a 'professional event') without querying whether that time is suitable for carers, and then to push back on Craige when he politely asks (as a carer) for a different meeting time in future because his request is, seemingly in Kathy's opinion, offensive to women as carers, strikes me as a bit hypocritical. Is that hypocritical to you, Nicholas? I am all for Linux Australia trying to be more diverse and inclusive. I welcome its attempts to consider those goals in finding meeting times, and locations, and in its other points of access. But it's impossible to please everyone all the time, and it's easy to come up with examples of ways that even this inclusive meeting time and online location exclude certain groups. Does that mean it's wrong? No; it just means its the best we've got so far. You've criticised me, Nicholas - what do you have to contribute to this attempt at diversity and inclusion? Regards, Paul -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From craige at mcwhirter.com.au Wed Jan 11 10:17:27 2023 From: craige at mcwhirter.com.au (Craige McWhirter) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2023 09:17:27 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Notice of Linux Australia 2023 Annual General Meeting (AGM) In-Reply-To: References: <20230110221122.i6gdwlb4jclr3hmq@dionach> Message-ID: <20230110231727.jskvxhi5qjvsucre@dionach> On Wed, Jan 11, 2023 at 09:20:50 +1100, Sae Ra Germaine wrote: > Hi Craige, Hi Sae Ra :-) > Thank you for putting this suggestion forward but to make this happen > would require a Constitutional change as the term President etc are > named titles/terms used in the Constitution > (https://linux.org.au/about-us/constitution/). Noted. Thank you. > If this is something the community would like to see (maybe it's a > "discussion" at the AGM rather than a Motion) then I would recommend this > be added to the review of the constitution (to be conducted after this > AGM) which can be voted on at another AGM/SGM. I'm significantly behind on LA email, so thank you for getting me up to speed there - I was unaware of the constitutional review and a proposed future AGM/SGM. > Would this be a valid way forward for you? I think so. I believe it's worth having the discussion at the AGM to test community sentiment despite previous low attendance rates, as I'd rather not drag changing the titles to Convenor and Co-Convenor into a constitutional review if there's no community support for it. Should there be second for it, it would be good to have it discussed at the AGM and the sentiment conveyed back to the community, so I know whether to include it in the review. So I would still like a motion but I'd now amend it to: MOTION by Craige McWhirter that after discussion of the merits of changing titles from President / Vice President to Convenor / Co-Convenor that the meeting chair tests the meeting for consensus that the suggested change is worth including in the contistutional review, falling back to a vote if consensus is blocked. If the consensus is that it's worth including in the review, than I'll run with that through the review process. Thanks :-) -- Craige McWhirter Signal: +61 4685 91819 Matrix: @craige:mcwhirter.io Mastodon: @craige at mcwhirter.io -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 833 bytes Desc: not available URL: From paulway at mabula.net Wed Jan 11 10:19:14 2023 From: paulway at mabula.net (Paul Wayper) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2023 10:19:14 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Notice of Linux Australia 2023 Annual General Meeting (AGM) In-Reply-To: <20230110231727.jskvxhi5qjvsucre@dionach> References: <20230110221122.i6gdwlb4jclr3hmq@dionach> <20230110231727.jskvxhi5qjvsucre@dionach> Message-ID: <2d1dab72-dbe5-4964-a046-9122286a7c44@app.fastmail.com> On Wed, Jan 11, 2023, at 10:17 AM, Craige McWhirter via linux-aus wrote: > MOTION by Craige McWhirter that after discussion of the merits of changing > titles from President / Vice President to Convenor / Co-Convenor that the > meeting chair tests the meeting for consensus that the suggested change is > worth including in the contistutional review, falling back to a vote if > consensus is blocked. I'd like to second this motion. Regards, Paul -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From s.germaine at gmail.com Wed Jan 11 10:20:54 2023 From: s.germaine at gmail.com (Sae Ra Germaine) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2023 10:20:54 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Notice of Linux Australia 2023 Annual General Meeting (AGM) In-Reply-To: <20230110231727.jskvxhi5qjvsucre@dionach> References: <20230110221122.i6gdwlb4jclr3hmq@dionach> <20230110231727.jskvxhi5qjvsucre@dionach> Message-ID: Hi Craige, Apologies I have to clarify, there isn't anything formalised in the way of a constitutional review, but given the recent discussions on the mailing list it may be prudent to do so and I would suspect that others may be thinking the same way. Because changes to the constitution requires more thought (and more notice before an AGM) I was suggesting that a review of any changes to the constitution happen after this one as we are running out of time. Thanks Sae Ra On Wed, 11 Jan 2023 at 10:17, Craige McWhirter via linux-aus < linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > On Wed, Jan 11, 2023 at 09:20:50 +1100, Sae Ra Germaine wrote: > > Hi Craige, > > Hi Sae Ra :-) > > > Thank you for putting this suggestion forward but to make this happen > > would require a Constitutional change as the term President etc are > > named titles/terms used in the Constitution > > (https://linux.org.au/about-us/constitution/). > > Noted. Thank you. > > > If this is something the community would like to see (maybe it's a > > "discussion" at the AGM rather than a Motion) then I would recommend > this > > be added to the review of the constitution (to be conducted after this > > AGM) which can be voted on at another AGM/SGM. > > I'm significantly behind on LA email, so thank you for getting me up to > speed > there - I was unaware of the constitutional review and a proposed future > AGM/SGM. > > > Would this be a valid way forward for you? > > I think so. I believe it's worth having the discussion at the AGM to test > community sentiment despite previous low attendance rates, as I'd rather > not > drag changing the titles to Convenor and Co-Convenor into a constitutional > review if there's no community support for it. > > Should there be second for it, it would be good to have it discussed at > the AGM > and the sentiment conveyed back to the community, so I know whether to > include > it in the review. > > So I would still like a motion but I'd now amend it to: > > MOTION by Craige McWhirter that after discussion of the merits of changing > titles from President / Vice President to Convenor / Co-Convenor that the > meeting chair tests the meeting for consensus that the suggested change is > worth including in the contistutional review, falling back to a vote if > consensus is blocked. > > If the consensus is that it's worth including in the review, than I'll run > with > that through the review process. > > Thanks :-) > > -- > Craige McWhirter > Signal: +61 4685 91819 > Matrix: @craige:mcwhirter.io > Mastodon: @craige at mcwhirter.io > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From joel at addison.net.au Wed Jan 11 10:47:15 2023 From: joel at addison.net.au (Joel Addison) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2023 09:47:15 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Notice of Linux Australia 2023 Annual General Meeting (AGM) In-Reply-To: References: <20230110221122.i6gdwlb4jclr3hmq@dionach> <20230110231727.jskvxhi5qjvsucre@dionach> Message-ID: <106EAF84-5CBC-4FE9-9EB8-205BB8B87917@addison.net.au> Hi everyone, Given the updates to the model constitution that NSW made last year, as well as other discussions around the constitution on this list and elsewhere over the past few months, the LA Council has discussed briefly what changes would be needed, and decided that it will perform a review and work on this during 2023. It was deemed too close to the AGM to properly conduct a review and propose changes at the end of last year, which is why we are not taking any constitutional changes to the AGM this month. Once the review is underway I expect an announcement will be made. Thanks, Joel Addison Linux Australia President > On 11 Jan 2023, at 9:20 am, Sae Ra Germaine via linux-aus wrote: > > Hi Craige, > > Apologies I have to clarify, there isn't anything formalised in the way of a constitutional review, but given the recent discussions on the mailing list it may be prudent to do so and I would suspect that others may be thinking the same way. Because changes to the constitution requires more thought (and more notice before an AGM) I was suggesting that a review of any changes to the constitution happen after this one as we are running out of time. > > Thanks > > Sae Ra > > > On Wed, 11 Jan 2023 at 10:17, Craige McWhirter via linux-aus > wrote: > On Wed, Jan 11, 2023 at 09:20:50 +1100, Sae Ra Germaine wrote: > > Hi Craige, > > Hi Sae Ra :-) > > > Thank you for putting this suggestion forward but to make this happen > > would require a Constitutional change as the term President etc are > > named titles/terms used in the Constitution > > (https://linux.org.au/about-us/constitution/ ). > > Noted. Thank you. > > > If this is something the community would like to see (maybe it's a > > "discussion" at the AGM rather than a Motion) then I would recommend this > > be added to the review of the constitution (to be conducted after this > > AGM) which can be voted on at another AGM/SGM. > > I'm significantly behind on LA email, so thank you for getting me up to speed > there - I was unaware of the constitutional review and a proposed future AGM/SGM. > > > Would this be a valid way forward for you? > > I think so. I believe it's worth having the discussion at the AGM to test > community sentiment despite previous low attendance rates, as I'd rather not > drag changing the titles to Convenor and Co-Convenor into a constitutional > review if there's no community support for it. > > Should there be second for it, it would be good to have it discussed at the AGM > and the sentiment conveyed back to the community, so I know whether to include > it in the review. > > So I would still like a motion but I'd now amend it to: > > MOTION by Craige McWhirter that after discussion of the merits of changing > titles from President / Vice President to Convenor / Co-Convenor that the > meeting chair tests the meeting for consensus that the suggested change is > worth including in the contistutional review, falling back to a vote if > consensus is blocked. > > If the consensus is that it's worth including in the review, than I'll run with > that through the review process. > > Thanks :-) > > -- > Craige McWhirter > Signal: +61 4685 91819 > Matrix: @craige:mcwhirter.io > Mastodon: @craige at mcwhirter.io > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jwoithe at just42.net Wed Jan 11 10:50:00 2023 From: jwoithe at just42.net (Jonathan Woithe) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2023 10:20:00 +1030 Subject: [Linux-aus] Notice of Linux Australia 2023 Annual General Meeting (AGM) In-Reply-To: References: <20230110221122.i6gdwlb4jclr3hmq@dionach> <20230110231727.jskvxhi5qjvsucre@dionach> Message-ID: On Wed, Jan 11, 2023 at 10:20:54AM +1100, Sae Ra Germaine via linux-aus wrote: > Apologies I have to clarify, there isn't anything formalised in the way of > a constitutional review, but given the recent discussions on the mailing > list it may be prudent to do so ... To further clarify (I hope) and as has been mentioned in connection with earlier discussions on list, council has recognised the need to review the constitution in line with changes to the NSW model constitution on which the LA constitution is based. As a result, the current Council has flagged such a review to be done by the incoming 2023 Council. Since a review is necessary, it makes sense to consider other points raised by the community at the same time. Thus the points raised in the previous mailing list discussions that Sae Ra referred to have been noted for consideration. Craige's title renaming proposal could also be included (subject to the conditions outlined in his motion). To summarise: while a consitution review is not yet formalised, it is a task the current Council has flagged for the 2023 Council. I therefore expect it to happen. Regards jonathan From craige at mcwhirter.com.au Wed Jan 11 10:54:50 2023 From: craige at mcwhirter.com.au (Craige McWhirter) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2023 09:54:50 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Notice of Linux Australia 2023 Annual General Meeting (AGM) In-Reply-To: References: <20230110221122.i6gdwlb4jclr3hmq@dionach> <20230110231727.jskvxhi5qjvsucre@dionach> Message-ID: <20230110235450.hq2e23fp6qhpjbkj@dionach> On Wed, Jan 11, 2023 at 10:20:54 +1100, Sae Ra Germaine wrote: > Hi Craige, Hi Sae Ra :-) > Apologies I have to clarify, there isn't anything formalised in the > way of a constitutional review, but given the recent discussions on > the mailing list it may be prudent to do so and I would suspect that > others may be thinking the same way. Because changes to the > constitution requires more thought (and more notice before an AGM) I > was suggesting that a review of any changes to the constitution > happen after this one as we are running out of time. Thank you for the clarification but even without a formal consitutional review in place / progress I'm much happier with where this motion has ended up, which was improved by your input. It leaves time and space for thought and consideration which will result in community direction to either pursue the change or drop the suggestion. I've been sitting on my personal opinion that we ought to change the titles for over a decade, so there's no rush from my perspective, it just seemed time to see how others felt. Time to let the idea breath and see where it goes :-) -- Craige McWhirter Signal: +61 4685 91819 Matrix: @craige:mcwhirter.io Mastodon: @craige at mcwhirter.io -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 833 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dwight at wwwalker.com.au Wed Jan 11 22:49:58 2023 From: dwight at wwwalker.com.au (Dwight Walker) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2023 21:49:58 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] candidate nominations systems broken on website for elections Message-ID: <5b091b6e3bab5d2771b6238e997eedc9.squirrel@wwwalker.com.au> On website under members area | elections person tried to enter nomination for position and get seconder but it then wanted them to nominate again. Nomination did not go through. System is broken. It needs fixing at least by next year when election is due again. There needs to be a simple manual for nominations with screen dumps on website so procedure is followed OK. Here is quote re nomination: "If you wish to nominate yourself, identify the positions you wish to nominate for and get an understanding of what each position involves. Think about what you might bring to the role and prepare a short pitch. Then, accept the nomination you've been given by clicking the 'Accept nomination' link. *You must accept your nomination to move to the next stage of the election process*" All there was was 'NOMINATE' button requiring person nominated to fill in what had been entered for nomination again which was not done. There was no Accept nomination link emailed to nominee or on the Website next to their name on position's area. There was no Accept nomination link the day before closing of nominations. There was no confirmation to nominator re why nomination failed just no nomination and candidate status: pending. -- Hamilton Dwight Walker WWWalker Web Development Pty Ltd https://wwwalker.com.au From craige at mcwhirter.com.au Thu Jan 12 09:40:55 2023 From: craige at mcwhirter.com.au (Craige McWhirter) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2023 08:40:55 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] candidate nominations systems broken on website for elections In-Reply-To: <5b091b6e3bab5d2771b6238e997eedc9.squirrel@wwwalker.com.au> References: <5b091b6e3bab5d2771b6238e997eedc9.squirrel@wwwalker.com.au> Message-ID: <20230111224055.gjfvbysbe63wviws@dionach> Hi Dwight, Nominations closed on the 7th - when were you attempting these nominations? It's entirely possible that the problems you were seeing are a result of error handling around a closed nomination period? On Wed, Jan 11, 2023 at 21:49:58 +1000, Dwight Walker via linux-aus wrote: > On website under members area | elections person tried to enter nomination > for position and get seconder but it then wanted them to nominate again. > > Nomination did not go through. > > System is broken. It needs fixing at least by next year when election is > due again. > > There needs to be a simple manual for nominations with screen dumps on > website so procedure is followed OK. > > Here is quote re nomination: > > "If you wish to nominate yourself, identify the positions you wish to > nominate for and get an understanding of what each position involves. > Think about what you might bring to the role and prepare a short pitch. > Then, accept the nomination you've been given by clicking the 'Accept > nomination' link. > *You must accept your nomination to move to the next stage of the > election process*" > > All there was was 'NOMINATE' button requiring person nominated to fill in > what had been entered for nomination again which was not done. > > There was no Accept nomination link emailed to nominee or on the Website > next to their name on position's area. > > There was no Accept nomination link the day before closing of nominations. > > There was no confirmation to nominator re why nomination failed just no > nomination and candidate status: pending. -- Craige McWhirter Signal: +61 4685 91819 Matrix: @craige:mcwhirter.io Mastodon: @craige at mcwhirter.io -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 833 bytes Desc: not available URL: From joel at addison.net.au Thu Jan 12 09:44:39 2023 From: joel at addison.net.au (Joel Addison) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2023 08:44:39 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] candidate nominations systems broken on website for elections In-Reply-To: <5b091b6e3bab5d2771b6238e997eedc9.squirrel@wwwalker.com.au> References: <5b091b6e3bab5d2771b6238e997eedc9.squirrel@wwwalker.com.au> Message-ID: Hi Dwight, As was explained by Clinton in other correspondence, the Accept button will appear once you have two or more nominations (ie. a nomination and a second). This will appear towards the top of the page, in a similar position as the original Nominate button that allows you to nominate yourself for any position. From what I can tell, your nominated yourself for a position, and had a second, but you did not click the Accept button prior to the nomination period closing, meaning your nomination does not appear in the election for voting. We can look at producing a guide with screenshots for future elections if that would make it clearer. There might be user interface changes that we could make also. Regards, Joel > On 11 Jan 2023, at 9:49 pm, Dwight Walker via linux-aus wrote: > > On website under members area | elections person tried to enter nomination > for position and get seconder but it then wanted them to nominate again. > > Nomination did not go through. > > System is broken. It needs fixing at least by next year when election is > due again. > > There needs to be a simple manual for nominations with screen dumps on > website so procedure is followed OK. > > Here is quote re nomination: > > "If you wish to nominate yourself, identify the positions you wish to > nominate for and get an understanding of what each position involves. > Think about what you might bring to the role and prepare a short pitch. > Then, accept the nomination you've been given by clicking the 'Accept > nomination' link. > *You must accept your nomination to move to the next stage of the > election process*" > > All there was was 'NOMINATE' button requiring person nominated to fill in > what had been entered for nomination again which was not done. > > There was no Accept nomination link emailed to nominee or on the Website > next to their name on position's area. > > There was no Accept nomination link the day before closing of nominations. > > There was no confirmation to nominator re why nomination failed just no > nomination and candidate status: pending. > > -- > Hamilton Dwight Walker > WWWalker Web Development Pty Ltd > https://wwwalker.com.au > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au From dwight at wwwalker.com.au Thu Jan 12 11:14:32 2023 From: dwight at wwwalker.com.au (Dwight Walker) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2023 10:14:32 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] candidate nominations systems broken on website for elections In-Reply-To: <20230111224055.gjfvbysbe63wviws@dionach> References: <5b091b6e3bab5d2771b6238e997eedc9.squirrel@wwwalker.com.au> <20230111224055.gjfvbysbe63wviws@dionach> Message-ID: Craig It was on 7/1/23 at about 8pm Brisbane time so before deadline at 10:59pm Brisbane time. I had a 15" monitor then so had to zoom to 90% to see all the nav bar buttons horizontally on linux.org.au site after this happened but it was too late. Button for accept nomination may have been below fold. I will have to wait till next January to test it again. Yesterday I bought 24" monitor so I can see all the site as most sites are now designed for 24" not 15" monitors. Dwight Walker On Thu, January 12, 2023 08:40, Craige McWhirter via linux-aus wrote: > Hi Dwight, > > Nominations closed on the 7th - when were you attempting these > nominations? > It's entirely possible that the problems you were seeing are a result of > error > handling around a closed nomination period? > > On Wed, Jan 11, 2023 at 21:49:58 +1000, Dwight Walker via linux-aus wrote: >> On website under members area | elections person tried to enter >> nomination >> for position and get seconder but it then wanted them to nominate again. >> >> Nomination did not go through. >> >> System is broken. It needs fixing at least by next year when election is >> due again. >> >> There needs to be a simple manual for nominations with screen dumps on >> website so procedure is followed OK. >> >> Here is quote re nomination: >> >> "If you wish to nominate yourself, identify the positions you wish to >> nominate for and get an understanding of what each position involves. >> Think about what you might bring to the role and prepare a short pitch. >> Then, accept the nomination you've been given by clicking the 'Accept >> nomination' link. >> *You must accept your nomination to move to the next stage of the >> election process*" >> >> All there was was 'NOMINATE' button requiring person nominated to fill >> in >> what had been entered for nomination again which was not done. >> >> There was no Accept nomination link emailed to nominee or on the Website >> next to their name on position's area. >> >> There was no Accept nomination link the day before closing of >> nominations. >> >> There was no confirmation to nominator re why nomination failed just no >> nomination and candidate status: pending. > > -- > Craige McWhirter > Signal: +61 4685 91819 > Matrix: @craige:mcwhirter.io > Mastodon: @craige at mcwhirter.io > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -- Dwight Walker WWWalker Web Development Pty Ltd https://wwwalker.com.au From dwight at wwwalker.com.au Thu Jan 12 11:20:36 2023 From: dwight at wwwalker.com.au (Dwight Walker) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2023 10:20:36 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] candidate nominations systems broken on website for elections In-Reply-To: References: <5b091b6e3bab5d2771b6238e997eedc9.squirrel@wwwalker.com.au> Message-ID: <0024718fc008de81e3459c8691f59623.squirrel@wwwalker.com.au> Joel I could not and did not see the Accept nomination button maybe because I had a 15" monitor and linux.org.au was designed for a 24" monitor so button may have been below fold. I bought a 24" monitor yesterday so now can see site with horizontal navigation and won't miss anything. Please do a short manual for nomination with screen dumps in case the perplexity re not being able to find buttons because monitor was too small and button had disappeared below bottom of screen or whatever. Dwight Walker On Thu, January 12, 2023 08:44, Joel Addison wrote: > Hi Dwight, > > As was explained by Clinton in other correspondence, the Accept button > will appear once you have two or more nominations (ie. a nomination and a > second). This will appear towards the top of the page, in a similar > position as the original Nominate button that allows you to nominate > yourself for any position. > > From what I can tell, your nominated yourself for a position, and had a > second, but you did not click the Accept button prior to the nomination > period closing, meaning your nomination does not appear in the election > for voting. > > We can look at producing a guide with screenshots for future elections if > that would make it clearer. There might be user interface changes that we > could make also. > > Regards, > Joel > >> On 11 Jan 2023, at 9:49 pm, Dwight Walker via linux-aus >> wrote: >> >> On website under members area | elections person tried to enter >> nomination >> for position and get seconder but it then wanted them to nominate again. >> >> Nomination did not go through. >> >> System is broken. It needs fixing at least by next year when election is >> due again. >> >> There needs to be a simple manual for nominations with screen dumps on >> website so procedure is followed OK. >> >> Here is quote re nomination: >> >> "If you wish to nominate yourself, identify the positions you wish to >> nominate for and get an understanding of what each position involves. >> Think about what you might bring to the role and prepare a short pitch. >> Then, accept the nomination you've been given by clicking the 'Accept >> nomination' link. >> *You must accept your nomination to move to the next stage of the >> election process*" >> >> All there was was 'NOMINATE' button requiring person nominated to fill >> in >> what had been entered for nomination again which was not done. >> >> There was no Accept nomination link emailed to nominee or on the Website >> next to their name on position's area. >> >> There was no Accept nomination link the day before closing of >> nominations. >> >> There was no confirmation to nominator re why nomination failed just no >> nomination and candidate status: pending. >> >> -- >> Hamilton Dwight Walker >> WWWalker Web Development Pty Ltd >> https://wwwalker.com.au >> >> _______________________________________________ >> linux-aus mailing list >> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au >> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus >> >> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to >> linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au > > -- Dwight Walker WWWalker Web Development Pty Ltd https://wwwalker.com.au From kathy at kathyreid.id.au Thu Jan 12 11:24:46 2023 From: kathy at kathyreid.id.au (Kathy Reid) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2023 11:24:46 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] candidate nominations systems broken on website for elections In-Reply-To: References: <5b091b6e3bab5d2771b6238e997eedc9.squirrel@wwwalker.com.au> Message-ID: <637e0026-7e03-e3b3-9675-f0a8d7165ea1@kathyreid.id.au> > There might be user interface changes that we could make also. > > Regards, > Joel Thanks Joel, When I commissioned the voting system module for CiviCRM as part of the linux.org.au website redevelopment in 2018, one of the stipulations was that the module be made available open source. https://civicrm.org/extensions/elections The module is now used in 47 CiviCRM installations worldwide. If anyone would like to submit patches, the source is at: https://github.com/agileware/au.com.agileware.elections I agree, the "Accept Nomination" part of the process could use some refinement, such as an email reminder to the nominated candidate. This would likely require some CiviCRM knowledge to set up some sort of email hook. Kind regards, Kathy From hi at alexar.me Fri Jan 13 18:28:00 2023 From: hi at alexar.me (Alexar Pendashteh) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2023 18:28:00 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Brainstorm your "Everything Open" submission (Saturday at 3pm AEDT) Message-ID: Linux Victoria (LUV) is hosting an online session to support those who are considering submitting a proposal to the upcoming LA conference, "Everything Open" . *Date and time*: Saturday, January 14, 2023 - 3pm (AEDT) *Link to join*: https://venue.electronworkshop.com.au/r/linux-victoria This is a free and online event. No registration is required and everyone is welcome to join, whether you are a member of LUV or not. More details on LUV website: https://www.luv.asn.au/events/everything-open-pitch-2023/ + Alexar Alexar Pendashteh -- Acting President Linux Users of Victoria [LUV]: https://luv.asn.au/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jessica at itgrrl.com Sat Jan 14 14:33:58 2023 From: jessica at itgrrl.com (itgrrl) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2023 14:33:58 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Notice of Linux Australia 2023 Annual General Meeting(AGM) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0d38b855-8928-4fab-924f-c095239e8edb@app.fastmail.com> Hi all - am I the only one who didn't received an email with the Zoom meeting link & passcode...? Cheers, Jessica From jessica at itgrrl.com Sat Jan 14 14:38:32 2023 From: jessica at itgrrl.com (itgrrl) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2023 14:38:32 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Notice of Linux Australia 2023 Annual GeneralMeeting(AGM) In-Reply-To: <0d38b855-8928-4fab-924f-c095239e8edb@app.fastmail.com> References: <0d38b855-8928-4fab-924f-c095239e8edb@app.fastmail.com> Message-ID: <24a3eb83-b292-4b11-a143-b72b70cc5aec@app.fastmail.com> On Sat, 14 Jan 2023, at 14:33, itgrrl via linux-aus wrote: > Hi all - am I the only one who didn't received an email with the Zoom > meeting link & passcode...? > > > Cheers, > > Jessica Oh LOL, I'm a week early... carry on :-D From clinton.roy at gmail.com Thu Jan 19 20:02:09 2023 From: clinton.roy at gmail.com (Clinton Roy) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2023 20:02:09 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Notice of Linux Australia 2023 Annual General Meeting (AGM) In-Reply-To: <20230110033300.fbxr2pigd45h4fc4@dionach> References: <20230110033300.fbxr2pigd45h4fc4@dionach> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 at 14:33, Craige McWhirter via linux-aus < linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > I'm an apology for this AGM due to it's timing conflicting with existing > commitments. > I just want to remind people that they can setup proxies for the AGM by forwarding those details to the secretary at least 24 hours before the AGM kicks off. cheers, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From treasurer at linux.org.au Fri Jan 20 22:19:14 2023 From: treasurer at linux.org.au (Russell Stuart) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2023 21:19:14 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Linux Australia 2022-2023 Annual Report Message-ID: <4f8756f1-052c-db7e-37c6-dc5f8b7e4c0c@linux.org.au> The Linux Australia 2022-2023 annual report, including the audited financial statements for 2021-2022, is now available on the LA web site: https://linux.org.au/about-us/annual-reports/ -- Regards, Russell Stuart LA Treasurer From hi at alexar.me Sat Jan 21 14:44:31 2023 From: hi at alexar.me (Alexar Pendashteh) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2023 14:44:31 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Notice of Linux Australia 2023 Annual General Meeting (AGM) In-Reply-To: References: <20230110033300.fbxr2pigd45h4fc4@dionach> Message-ID: Can someone share the pass code for zoom with me? Thanks On Thu, 19 Jan 2023, 8:02 pm Clinton Roy via linux-aus, < linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > > > On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 at 14:33, Craige McWhirter via linux-aus < > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > >> I'm an apology for this AGM due to it's timing conflicting with existing >> commitments. >> > > I just want to remind people that they can setup proxies for the AGM by > forwarding those details to the secretary at least 24 hours > before the AGM kicks off. > > cheers, > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jwoithe at just42.net Sat Jan 21 15:01:57 2023 From: jwoithe at just42.net (Jonathan Woithe) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2023 14:31:57 +1030 Subject: [Linux-aus] Notice of Linux Australia 2023 Annual General Meeting (AGM) In-Reply-To: References: <20230110033300.fbxr2pigd45h4fc4@dionach> Message-ID: Hi Alexar On Sat, Jan 21, 2023 at 02:44:31PM +1100, Alexar Pendashteh via linux-aus wrote: > Can someone share the pass code for zoom with me? The meeting requires pre-registration as outlined in earlier messages. This is needed to ensure that only LA members are present so the voting integrity is maintained. Rather than a passcode, one can only join the meeting using the URL sent in a separate email you receive when your registration is confirmed. The URL includes a token that's unique to you, so no one else can send it to you. Regards jonathan From simon at darkmere.gen.nz Fri Jan 27 13:06:33 2023 From: simon at darkmere.gen.nz (Simon Lyall) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2023 15:06:33 +1300 (NZDT) Subject: [Linux-aus] LA AGM and Council Message-ID: My understanding is that a new council hasn't been formed due to the legal action[1]. Anyone got any more information? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_Cunningham#%22Cunningham's_Law%22 -- Simon Lyall | Very Busy | Web: http://www.simonlyall.com/ "To stay awake all night adds a day to your life" - Stilgar From kathy at kathyreid.id.au Fri Jan 27 14:25:50 2023 From: kathy at kathyreid.id.au (Kathy Reid) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2023 14:25:50 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] LA AGM and Council In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <028cde18-f92e-0130-8d32-27a22778dff6@kathyreid.id.au> Do you mean the Council that was declared elected at last Saturday's AGM, and who appear on the LA website at [0]? [0] https://linux.org.au/about-us/council/ On 27/1/23 13:06, Simon Lyall via linux-aus wrote: > > My understanding is that a new council hasn't been formed due to the > legal action[1]. Anyone got any more information? > > > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_Cunningham#%22Cunningham's_Law%22 > From marcus at herstik.com Fri Jan 27 21:46:31 2023 From: marcus at herstik.com (Marcus Herstik) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2023 20:46:31 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] LA AGM and Council In-Reply-To: <028cde18-f92e-0130-8d32-27a22778dff6@kathyreid.id.au> References: <028cde18-f92e-0130-8d32-27a22778dff6@kathyreid.id.au> Message-ID: <2818EFEF-758F-4967-B8EF-729EE477EEF1@herstik.com> Well played sir. > > On 27 Jan 2023, at 1:26 pm, Kathy Reid via linux-aus wrote: > > ?Do you mean the Council that was declared elected at last Saturday's AGM, and who appear on the LA website at [0]? > > [0] https://linux.org.au/about-us/council/ > > >> On 27/1/23 13:06, Simon Lyall via linux-aus wrote: >> >> My understanding is that a new council hasn't been formed due to the legal action[1]. Anyone got any more information? >> >> >> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_Cunningham#%22Cunningham's_Law%22 >> > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au From tim.w.connors at gmail.com Sun Jan 29 13:15:11 2023 From: tim.w.connors at gmail.com (Tim Connors) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2023 13:15:11 +1100 (AEDT) Subject: [Linux-aus] LA AGM and Council In-Reply-To: <028cde18-f92e-0130-8d32-27a22778dff6@kathyreid.id.au> References: <028cde18-f92e-0130-8d32-27a22778dff6@kathyreid.id.au> Message-ID: I for one, welcome this new evolution to the Dorothy Dixer. (Also, thankyou to the new team, in particular, the new council member) On Fri, 27 Jan 2023, Kathy Reid via linux-aus wrote: > Do you mean the Council that was declared elected at last Saturday's AGM, and > who appear on the LA website at [0]? > > [0] https://linux.org.au/about-us/council/ > > > On 27/1/23 13:06, Simon Lyall via linux-aus wrote: > > > > My understanding is that a new council hasn't been formed due to the legal > > action[1]. Anyone got any more information? > > > > > > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_Cunningham#%22Cunningham's_Law%22 > > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au > > -- Tim Connors