From a.nielsen at shikadi.net Wed Jun 1 01:23:06 2022 From: a.nielsen at shikadi.net (Adam Nielsen) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2022 01:23:06 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] 4K monitor sizes In-Reply-To: <1787910.QCnGb9OGeP@xev> References: <1787910.QCnGb9OGeP@xev> Message-ID: <20220601012306.1753378d@vorticon.teln.shikadi.net> > Has anyone had experience with a monitor larger than 40" on their desktop? Not larger than, but I have been using a 3840x2160 40" for a few years now. 4K at 40" gives you the same DPI as with traditional LCD monitors, so it's the perfect size from a usability standpoint as I don't need to mess with the DPI settings to get text readable, or put up with microscopic text when using a program that doesn't respect the system's DPI value. For size comparison, I also have a Dell 3008 (30" 2K), and a few 24" 1920x1200 and the size of each pixel is pretty much the same across the board. I'm sitting about 40-60cm from the 40" LCD, and it takes up enough of my vision that I have to turn my head to see one side to the other. I don't find this much of a problem though, because I usually have enough windows on the screen that it's no different to turning my head from one monitor to another as I switch between tasks. Personally I think 40" is about the point where you probably want a curved monitor though, because the edges of the screen are noticeably further away from your eye than the middle (at the distance I sit from it anyway). It's kind of hard to explain but I think your eyes have to constantly refocus very slightly as you glance around the screen, so I feel that being curved so that every point on the screen is the same distance away from the eye would lead to a slightly better experience. If the 43" you mention isn't curved then I would probably suggest thinking twice about it, unless you plan to be sitting more than ~70cm away from it. One nice thing about a larger screen is that you get a lot more vertical space. Having two monitors side by side gives you a lot of width but not so much height. Some people used to rotate their widescreen monitors into portrait mode to get more vertical space (e.g. to see a whole A4 document page without scrolling) but with a large monitor you get that same vertical space even when it's in landscape. For me, it's great for multiple tall terminal windows side by side, as well as being able to see a large chunk of the source code I'm editing. I also don't have to scroll nearly so much on web pages. If I had to buy again, I would probably go for another 40" but definitely curved if I could. I found the 30" a little smaller than I expected it would be, so I would only get another 30" or smaller if it was really cheap (and even then more than one). From the choices you've listed, the 32" sounds like it would suit me the best. If you like the USB-C charging functionality, you can get an adapter that you plug both your laptop charger and monitor into (via a DisplayPort cable) and it combines it into a single USB-C plug that goes into your laptop. That lets you convert pretty much any monitor into a USB-C charging monitor. > Another possibility is getting multiple monitors. For a long time I have been > unconvinced of the benefits of multiple monitors I have seven monitors on my desk so I am well and truly convinced of the benefits of multiple monitors :) I would have more if I could fit them but it's surprisingly hard to find mounting solutions that let you stack monitors vertically one above the other, and that take screens larger than around 24". I managed to find a monitor arm designed for sit-stand use, and in "stand" position it gets two 24" screens sitting above the 30", but the 40" is just a bit too tall, the sit-stand arm won't go high enough to put anything above the 40". (A lot of people ask what I need so many monitors for so I will preempt that and say that I used to find myself constantly switching back and forth between the same programs - e-mail, instant messaging, terminal windows, etc. so I found it was easier to just have these programs visible all the time, so I could just glance at them out the corner of my eye to see if I needed to give them any attention, and it was much less of an interruption to what I was actually working on. I also have live camera feeds so I can see e.g. who's walking up to knock on the front door, which aren't so useful if they're covered up by another window most of the time.) > 2*27" gives me twice the pixels and 3/4 the area of a 32" monitor for about > the same price. 2x 27" will give you less vertical space but more horizontal, so the best option depends on what you will be working on. Getting more pixels in a smaller area means you're probably going to have to increase the DPI however. Many years ago when I last tried to change the DPI there were always programs that didn't respect the settings and came up with tiny text, so I've always tried to avoid having to change DPI where possible. Anyway, bit of a long explanation but hopefully you get something out of it. Cheers, Adam. From info at petermoulding.com Wed Jun 1 09:33:23 2022 From: info at petermoulding.com (Info) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2022 09:33:23 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] 4K monitor sizes In-Reply-To: <1787910.QCnGb9OGeP@xev> References: <1787910.QCnGb9OGeP@xev> Message-ID: <5505eec9-27be-5b96-c2c9-8610b68fbb29@petermoulding.com> 55" Useful for editing videos then seeing them as the viewer sees them. I found a big screen useful when working on something on a table. Hang the big screen on the wall at the other end of the table. For everything else, it was too big. I use a 32" and would look at something slightly bigger but not much. For people using reading glasses, there is a working visual range which limits the useful size of the screen. For writing, two vertical screens gives you one for your novel or program and the other at the side for email, todo lists, and code tests. Peter On 31/5/22 21:32, Russell Coker via linux-aus wrote: > Has anyone had experience with a monitor larger than 40" on their desktop? > Currently Dell has a 27" USB-C monitor for $422 and a 32" monitor for $594 > while Kogan has a 43" for $799 and I'm thinking of what to buy in July. > > My wife's monitor broke and my plan is to buy myself a new monitor and give > her my Samsung 28" 4K monitor (which is higher spec than her previous > monitor). > > USB-C monitors are ones that can supply USB-C power to a laptop while also > having keyboard and mouse connected to the monitor as a USB hub. It's > basically all the functionality of what used to be a laptop docking-station in > a monitor with a single cable. It would be quite handy to have that > functionality as a laptop with USB-C is on my shopping list too. > > https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by-size/size-to-distance-relationship > > According to the above article you want a TV to take up 30 degrees of vision, > but for a monitor it's probably a lot more as you focus on the window that > needs your attention. Based on resolution and size according to that article > a 43" 4K "TV" would be best at a distance of 80-160cm with the minimum being > based on not seeing individual pixels. For a monitor you don't need to not > see pixels IMHO, just need to have enough of them to clearly represent > letters. So maybe 43" would be a good size. It seems like a lot, but when I > had a 17" monitor on my desk any larger than that seemed excessive... > > Another possibility is getting multiple monitors. For a long time I have been > unconvinced of the benefits of multiple monitors, but now I'm working at a > company where there's a USB-C dock at every desk with 2 monitors and I've got > used to working with 2 monitors in addition to a laptop display. If I bought > 2 of those 27" USB-C monitors I could have them both on my desktop system most > of the time and connect one to a laptop on occasion when I needed to. Linux > has really good support for dynamic plugging of monitors nowadays and 2*27" > gives me twice the pixels and 3/4 the area of a 32" monitor for about the same > price. > From tfeccles at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 10:39:24 2022 From: tfeccles at gmail.com (Colin Fee) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2022 10:39:24 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] 4K monitor sizes In-Reply-To: <5505eec9-27be-5b96-c2c9-8610b68fbb29@petermoulding.com> References: <1787910.QCnGb9OGeP@xev> <5505eec9-27be-5b96-c2c9-8610b68fbb29@petermoulding.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Jun 2022 at 09:33, Info via linux-aus < linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > 55" > > Useful for editing videos then seeing them as the viewer sees them. > > I found a big screen useful when working on something on a table. Hang the > big screen on the wall at > the other end of the table. > > For everything else, it was too big. I use a 32" and would look at > something slightly bigger but not > much. For people using reading glasses, there is a working visual range > which limits the useful size > of the screen. > > For writing, two vertical screens gives you one for your novel or program > and the other at the side > for email, todo lists, and code tests. > > Peter Yep, agree with Peter here re the glasses. I'm long sighted so I need to wear my glasses to work at my computer etc. I bought a Dell 32" 4k curved monitor during a sale early last year but had to return it as the ppi at 139 was under a sweet spot that meant everything looked just slightly fuzzy to me. My eyes were constantly trying to focus it into sharpness and it gave me headaches. I think the magic number is about 160 ppi, any less and I find them difficult to use. Right now I'm sitting in front of my HP Z27 27" 4k that has 163 ppi. I can't see the pixels, everything is smooth and crisp. c.f with Apple retina displays that are crica 220 ppi. I found overtime when using 2 x 24" monitors I was never using the full real estate of the individual monitors i.e. the outer 1/3 was unused, so I switched to a single 27" of higher resolution and adjust app window sizes to suit so I can have 2 - 3 things open and work effectively. My 27" sits just out of arm's length and fill most of my FoV. I have my laptop sitting on a custom stand I made as a 2nd screen for things that don't require my attention. -- Colin Fee tfeccles at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pnunn at intq.it Wed Jun 1 11:09:09 2022 From: pnunn at intq.it (Peter Nunn) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2022 11:09:09 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] 4K monitor sizes In-Reply-To: References: <1787910.QCnGb9OGeP@xev> <5505eec9-27be-5b96-c2c9-8610b68fbb29@petermoulding.com> Message-ID: I'm using an XPS-15 with a 4K OLED on a dock with a Dell S3221QS curved 4K and the experiences is pretty good once I worked out the magic xrandr incantation to scale them correctly (this was a 32" flat Dell 4K but that was stolen by my daughter). I've done the same thing with an XPS-13 using wayland which also works well, but not enough stuff runs properly with wayland yet to use it for my daily drive. Wayland is MUCH easier to set up, and I think does the scaling better (seems to be a it crisper) though so I often switch back and froward on the 15 as well. Getting two hdi monitors working at different scale on linux is still an interesting exercise that's for sure. Peter. On Wed, 2022-06-01 at 10:39 +1000, Colin Fee via linux-aus wrote: > > On Wed, 1 Jun 2022 at 09:33, Info via linux-aus > wrote: > > 55" > > > > Useful for editing videos then seeing them as the viewer sees them. > > > > I found a big screen useful when working on something on a table. > > Hang the big screen on the wall at > > the other end of the table. > > > > For everything else, it was too big. I use a 32" and would look at > > something slightly bigger but not > > much. For people using reading glasses, there is a working visual > > range which limits the useful size > > of the screen. > > > > For writing, two vertical screens gives you one for your novel or > > program and the other at the side > > for email, todo lists, and code tests. > > > > Peter > > > > > Yep, agree with Peter here re the glasses.? I'm long sighted so I > need to wear my glasses to work at my computer etc.? > > I bought a Dell 32" 4k curved monitor during a sale early last year > but had to return it as the ppi at 139 was under a sweet spot that > meant everything looked just slightly fuzzy to me. My eyes were > constantly trying to focus it into sharpness and it gave me > headaches.? I think the magic number is about 160 ppi, any less and I > find them difficult to use.? Right now I'm sitting in front of my HP > Z27 27" 4k that has 163 ppi.? I can't see the pixels, everything is > smooth and crisp. c.f with Apple retina displays that are crica 220 > ppi. > > I found overtime when using 2 x 24" monitors I was never using the > full real estate of the individual monitors i.e. the outer 1/3 was > unused, so I switched to a single 27" of higher resolution and > adjust?app window sizes to suit so I can have 2 - 3 things open and > work effectively. > > My 27" sits just out of arm's length and fill most of my FoV.? I have > my laptop sitting on a custom stand I made as a 2nd screen for things > that don't require my attention. > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steven.ellis at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 12:50:27 2022 From: steven.ellis at gmail.com (Steven Ellis) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2022 14:50:27 +1200 Subject: [Linux-aus] 4K monitor sizes In-Reply-To: References: <1787910.QCnGb9OGeP@xev> <5505eec9-27be-5b96-c2c9-8610b68fbb29@petermoulding.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 1, 2022 at 12:40 PM Colin Fee via linux-aus < linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > > On Wed, 1 Jun 2022 at 09:33, Info via linux-aus < > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > >> 55" >> >> Useful for editing videos then seeing them as the viewer sees them. >> >> I found a big screen useful when working on something on a table. Hang >> the big screen on the wall at >> the other end of the table. >> >> For everything else, it was too big. I use a 32" and would look at >> something slightly bigger but not >> much. For people using reading glasses, there is a working visual range >> which limits the useful size >> of the screen. >> >> For writing, two vertical screens gives you one for your novel or program >> and the other at the side >> for email, todo lists, and code tests. >> >> Peter > > > Yep, agree with Peter here re the glasses. I'm long sighted so I need to > wear my glasses to work at my computer etc. > > I bought a Dell 32" 4k curved monitor during a sale early last year but > had to return it as the ppi at 139 was under a sweet spot that meant > everything looked just slightly fuzzy to me. My eyes were constantly trying > to focus it into sharpness and it gave me headaches. I think the magic > number is about 160 ppi, any less and I find them difficult to use. Right > now I'm sitting in front of my HP Z27 27" 4k that has 163 ppi. I can't see > the pixels, everything is smooth and crisp. c.f with Apple retina displays > that are crica 220 ppi. > > I found overtime when using 2 x 24" monitors I was never using the full > real estate of the individual monitors i.e. the outer 1/3 was unused, so I > switched to a single 27" of higher resolution and adjust app window sizes > to suit so I can have 2 - 3 things open and work effectively. > > My 27" sits just out of arm's length and fill most of my FoV. I have my > laptop sitting on a custom stand I made as a 2nd screen for things that > don't require my attention. > Interesting to hear your perspective on ppi. I've got a Dell 32" 4K monitor (S3221QS) and I'm very happy with the pixel density. I do find it very hard to use a 1080p 24" monitor now as it just seems a bit fuzzy in comparison. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tfeccles at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 13:03:13 2022 From: tfeccles at gmail.com (Colin Fee) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2022 13:03:13 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] 4K monitor sizes In-Reply-To: References: <1787910.QCnGb9OGeP@xev> <5505eec9-27be-5b96-c2c9-8610b68fbb29@petermoulding.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Jun 2022 at 12:50, Steven Ellis wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 1, 2022 at 12:40 PM Colin Fee via linux-aus < > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > >> >> On Wed, 1 Jun 2022 at 09:33, Info via linux-aus < >> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: >> >>> 55" >>> >>> Useful for editing videos then seeing them as the viewer sees them. >>> >>> I found a big screen useful when working on something on a table. Hang >>> the big screen on the wall at >>> the other end of the table. >>> >>> For everything else, it was too big. I use a 32" and would look at >>> something slightly bigger but not >>> much. For people using reading glasses, there is a working visual range >>> which limits the useful size >>> of the screen. >>> >>> For writing, two vertical screens gives you one for your novel or >>> program and the other at the side >>> for email, todo lists, and code tests. >>> >>> Peter >> >> >> Yep, agree with Peter here re the glasses. I'm long sighted so I need to >> wear my glasses to work at my computer etc. >> >> I bought a Dell 32" 4k curved monitor during a sale early last year but >> had to return it as the ppi at 139 was under a sweet spot that meant >> everything looked just slightly fuzzy to me. My eyes were constantly trying >> to focus it into sharpness and it gave me headaches. I think the magic >> number is about 160 ppi, any less and I find them difficult to use. Right >> now I'm sitting in front of my HP Z27 27" 4k that has 163 ppi. I can't see >> the pixels, everything is smooth and crisp. c.f with Apple retina displays >> that are crica 220 ppi. >> >> I found overtime when using 2 x 24" monitors I was never using the full >> real estate of the individual monitors i.e. the outer 1/3 was unused, so I >> switched to a single 27" of higher resolution and adjust app window sizes >> to suit so I can have 2 - 3 things open and work effectively. >> >> My 27" sits just out of arm's length and fill most of my FoV. I have my >> laptop sitting on a custom stand I made as a 2nd screen for things that >> don't require my attention. >> > > Interesting to hear your perspective on ppi. I've got a Dell 32" 4K > monitor (S3221QS) and I'm very happy with the pixel density. I do find it > very hard to use a 1080p 24" monitor now as it just seems a bit fuzzy in > comparison. > Yes it was a shame. I even tried it out on my PS4 thinking I could use it as a gaming monitor but the same issue, it was just that little bit fuzzy. I wonder in hindsight if it was that particular panel. I have the same experience as you with 1080p 24" monitors. We've also got a 2k 27" in the study that my wife uses and I find that while that doesn't cause me any issues I no longer like using it. -- Colin Fee tfeccles at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wil at zeropointdevelopment.com Wed Jun 1 14:00:02 2022 From: wil at zeropointdevelopment.com (Wil Brown) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2022 14:00:02 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] 4K monitor sizes In-Reply-To: References: <1787910.QCnGb9OGeP@xev> <5505eec9-27be-5b96-c2c9-8610b68fbb29@petermoulding.com> Message-ID: I've had a 29" LG IPS for 9 years now and only this year it developed a single vertical dead pixel line. Looking to replace it soon-ish so this thread is very on-topic for me. On Wed, Jun 1, 2022 at 1:04 PM Colin Fee via linux-aus < linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > > On Wed, 1 Jun 2022 at 12:50, Steven Ellis wrote: > >> >> On Wed, Jun 1, 2022 at 12:40 PM Colin Fee via linux-aus < >> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: >> >>> >>> On Wed, 1 Jun 2022 at 09:33, Info via linux-aus < >>> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: >>> >>>> 55" >>>> >>>> Useful for editing videos then seeing them as the viewer sees them. >>>> >>>> I found a big screen useful when working on something on a table. Hang >>>> the big screen on the wall at >>>> the other end of the table. >>>> >>>> For everything else, it was too big. I use a 32" and would look at >>>> something slightly bigger but not >>>> much. For people using reading glasses, there is a working visual range >>>> which limits the useful size >>>> of the screen. >>>> >>>> For writing, two vertical screens gives you one for your novel or >>>> program and the other at the side >>>> for email, todo lists, and code tests. >>>> >>>> Peter >>> >>> >>> Yep, agree with Peter here re the glasses. I'm long sighted so I need >>> to wear my glasses to work at my computer etc. >>> >>> I bought a Dell 32" 4k curved monitor during a sale early last year but >>> had to return it as the ppi at 139 was under a sweet spot that meant >>> everything looked just slightly fuzzy to me. My eyes were constantly trying >>> to focus it into sharpness and it gave me headaches. I think the magic >>> number is about 160 ppi, any less and I find them difficult to use. Right >>> now I'm sitting in front of my HP Z27 27" 4k that has 163 ppi. I can't see >>> the pixels, everything is smooth and crisp. c.f with Apple retina displays >>> that are crica 220 ppi. >>> >>> I found overtime when using 2 x 24" monitors I was never using the full >>> real estate of the individual monitors i.e. the outer 1/3 was unused, so I >>> switched to a single 27" of higher resolution and adjust app window sizes >>> to suit so I can have 2 - 3 things open and work effectively. >>> >>> My 27" sits just out of arm's length and fill most of my FoV. I have my >>> laptop sitting on a custom stand I made as a 2nd screen for things that >>> don't require my attention. >>> >> >> Interesting to hear your perspective on ppi. I've got a Dell 32" 4K >> monitor (S3221QS) and I'm very happy with the pixel density. I do find it >> very hard to use a 1080p 24" monitor now as it just seems a bit fuzzy in >> comparison. >> > > > Yes it was a shame. I even tried it out on my PS4 thinking I could use it > as a gaming monitor but the same issue, it was just that little bit fuzzy. > I wonder in hindsight if it was that particular panel. > > I have the same experience as you with 1080p 24" monitors. We've also got > a 2k 27" in the study that my wife uses and I find that while that doesn't > cause me any issues I no longer like using it. > > -- > Colin Fee > tfeccles at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -- Wil Brown *WordPress Consultant, Developer & Business Coach at **Zero Point Development * *Vice President of Linux Australia * *m. 0423 526 829 <+61423526829> **w. zeropointdevelopment.com t. @WilBrown_AU LIn. LinkedIn * *Get my FREE business courses . ???* *Join me at WordPress Sydney and Elementor Sydney * Wil Brown about.me/wil_brown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From russell at coker.com.au Wed Jun 1 21:49:14 2022 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2022 21:49:14 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] 4K monitor sizes In-Reply-To: References: <1787910.QCnGb9OGeP@xev> <5505eec9-27be-5b96-c2c9-8610b68fbb29@petermoulding.com> Message-ID: <9193020.2WqB4rESCP@xev> On Wednesday, 1 June 2022 10:39:24 AEST Colin Fee via linux-aus wrote: > Yep, agree with Peter here re the glasses. I'm long sighted so I need to > wear my glasses to work at my computer etc. I have recently started to wear reading glasses. The reading glasses I currently have were designed to work best at less than 30cm (I mistakenly got them made for reading books not computer screens) but now they seem to work best at about 35-70cm. Thanks for all the suggestions, looks like 43" will be a good size. I'm not planning to get a curved monitor as I want to retain the ability to share a screen for watching TV etc. https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/703591 https://www.ebay.com.au/e/coupon-offers/20-to-22-off-dell-may22? _trkparms=pageci%3A4a60484e- e15b-11ec-9e67-0ac674d3bd92%7Cparentrq%3A1d5146961810a9f5db913e84fff8673e%7Ciid%3A0 https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/184649802036? epid=24044057490&hash=item2afdfc6134:g:JkgAAOSwnXph9mFT&frcectupt=true What are good ways of getting monitors cheaply? So far I've found Kogan to be good and I've seen ozbargain and the Dell Ebay store recommended. I just found Harris Technology selling a Phillips 43" monitor on ebay cheaper than Kogan sells them. https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/ips-led-vs-va-lcd Some of the cheaper ones have VA displays. VA is apparently a lot like IPS but worse for text, which means bad for anyone who wants to use a monitor for coding or sysadmin. I'm not getting too much into the details on price yet as I plan to buy next month for tax reasons. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From a.nielsen at shikadi.net Wed Jun 1 22:14:34 2022 From: a.nielsen at shikadi.net (Adam Nielsen) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2022 22:14:34 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] 4K monitor sizes In-Reply-To: <9193020.2WqB4rESCP@xev> References: <1787910.QCnGb9OGeP@xev> <5505eec9-27be-5b96-c2c9-8610b68fbb29@petermoulding.com> <9193020.2WqB4rESCP@xev> Message-ID: <20220601221434.689169f1@vorticon.teln.shikadi.net> > What are good ways of getting monitors cheaply? Dell often have pretty aggressive EOFY sales, so it's coming up to the time of the year when these start coming out. They already have some monitors at half price: https://deals.dell.com/en-au/category/monitor_deals They often don't stay up for long (the 50% one ends tomorrow) so maybe keep an eye on the page every couple of days to see if anything suitable comes up before Jun 30. > I'm not getting too much into the details on price yet as I plan to buy next > month for tax reasons. From memory the discounts do go away after Jun 30, so you'll probably have to do the sums and figure out whether it's cheaper to buy it with the discount, or pay full price and tax deduct it next financial year. Assuming of course you decide on a Dell, there are plenty of alternatives too. Cheers, Adam. From michael at ralston.id.au Thu Jun 2 10:10:01 2022 From: michael at ralston.id.au (Michael Ralston) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2022 10:10:01 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] 4K monitor sizes In-Reply-To: <20220601221434.689169f1@vorticon.teln.shikadi.net> References: <1787910.QCnGb9OGeP@xev> <5505eec9-27be-5b96-c2c9-8610b68fbb29@petermoulding.com> <9193020.2WqB4rESCP@xev> <20220601221434.689169f1@vorticon.teln.shikadi.net> Message-ID: I've had my eye on this monitor for a while... it's high refresh rate and HDR1000... for gaming... might not be what you're looking for... https://www.mwave.com.au/product/gigabyte-aorus-fv43u-43-144hz-4k-uhd-hdr1000-gaming-qled-monitor-with-hdmi-21-ac43996 -- Michael Ralston B Comp Sci Software Developer Mobile: 0404887178 -- Disclaimer -- This email is a natural product made from recycled electrons. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its personal character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects. If you were not the intended recipient of this email, then you have probably already read it. Please tell the sender of your infringement, you will then be legally required to undergo a lobotomy to remove the unauthorised information. Please do not send this email to anyone else, as the lobotomy procedure is very expensive. -- Michael Ralston B Comp Sci Software Developer Mobile: 0404887178 -- Disclaimer -- This email is a natural product made from recycled electrons. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its personal character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects. If you were not the intended recipient of this email, then you have probably already read it. Please tell the sender of your infringement, you will then be legally required to undergo a lobotomy to remove the unauthorised information. Please do not send this email to anyone else, as the lobotomy procedure is very expensive. On Wed, 1 Jun 2022 at 22:15, Adam Nielsen via linux-aus < linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > > What are good ways of getting monitors cheaply? > > Dell often have pretty aggressive EOFY sales, so it's coming up to the > time of the year when these start coming out. They already have some > monitors at half price: > > https://deals.dell.com/en-au/category/monitor_deals > > They often don't stay up for long (the 50% one ends tomorrow) so maybe > keep an eye on the page every couple of days to see if anything > suitable comes up before Jun 30. > > > I'm not getting too much into the details on price yet as I plan to buy > next > > month for tax reasons. > > From memory the discounts do go away after Jun 30, so you'll probably > have to do the sums and figure out whether it's cheaper to buy it with > the discount, or pay full price and tax deduct it next financial year. > > Assuming of course you decide on a Dell, there are plenty of > alternatives too. > > Cheers, > Adam. > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nikolai at lusan.id.au Thu Jun 2 15:41:02 2022 From: nikolai at lusan.id.au (Nikolai Lusan) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2022 15:41:02 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] 4K monitor sizes In-Reply-To: <1787910.QCnGb9OGeP@xev> References: <1787910.QCnGb9OGeP@xev> Message-ID: <7be05850b2690b5b9d18f0cb12b946b835baeadf.camel@lusan.id.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Greetings, On Tue, 2022-05-31 at 21:32 +1000, Russell Coker via linux-aus wrote: > Has anyone had experience with a monitor larger than 40" on their desktop?? > Currently Dell has a 27" USB-C monitor for $422 and a 32" monitor for $594 > while Kogan has a 43" for $799 and I'm thinking of what to buy in July. FWIW monitor size, like TV size, depends on how close you are going to be sitting to it. If you are going to be close-ish, then you probably want to go with a smaller monitor. The following website can help you take viewing distance into consideration: https://www.inchcalculator.com/tv-size-viewing-distance-calculator/ > Another possibility is getting multiple monitors.? For a long time I have been > unconvinced of the benefits of multiple monitors, but now I'm working at a > company where there's a USB-C dock at every desk with 2 monitors and I've got > used to working with 2 monitors in addition to a laptop display.? If I bought > 2 of those 27" USB-C monitors I could have them both on my desktop system most > of the time and connect one to a laptop on occasion when I needed to.? Linux > has really good support for dynamic plugging of monitors nowadays and 2*27" > gives me twice the pixels and 3/4 the area of a 32" monitor for about the same > price. I would go for multiple monitors every time. When I first went to 2 monitors it changed my life - reference material on one, code on the the other ... with no need to switch workspaces or alt-tab through multiple windows. I eventually moved to 3 monitors because I was running out of desktop space when doing to photo editing. With 6:9 monitors I run two horizontal, and the third vertical. It's great for having documents open an available at a glance. Having said that you also need to setup you workspace properly so that you can make proper use of multiple monitors, and as others have said it's not for everyone. I use XFCE and normally have 9 virtual dekstops setup, each with it's own purpose. Adding multiple monitors to it makes it even more useful. If you are running a *nix machine and still need Windows (lets face it, there are somethings that still need to be done with Windows or Mac) having a virtualbox, or RDP, Windows instance pinned to one of your monitors can be useful. I am in the process of moving to 4K monitors, and my current residence is a temporary place for the next few months. Once I am settled somewhere new I will be looking to setup another triple monitor case - the monitor sizes will depend on the space I have available to use. I would suggest considering the physical workspace and things like viewing distance before deciding on monitor sizes. Like TV's there is such a thing as too big for a space. When I bought my current [65 inch] TV I was looking for something around the 55 inch range, but ended up with bigger because of other considerations - it turns out the larger size was perfect for how I ended up with things setup. You may find going bigger, or smaller, might fit your needs better. - -- Nikolai Lusan -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEVfd4GW6z4nsBxdLo4ZaDRV2VL6QFAmKYTW4ACgkQ4ZaDRV2V L6SIHBAAkRE0UI3toyQChyGUC6c0fb4gofPKNwG9zSXk8g25oFkKKMUsDXOqEV+D dweX5y6ur5oezA9xCCli8qA8jBaw9dM2zWC4xX/FG8RF5BRPKQmEwnit+xCtpFL3 h29TM03DwKY/UEVf9WHXjYUPnMdCdeSb5Xm0CGi1HVtMGwwcLjtx4SASCzfwVlaH pgOmtFnhWUXdL532ZNTzlyUKBdcb3XLpcIwGVZwMzBo9GNmzAZPLMzp1o/qulUx1 ZfmWbbvnrH2sg1+HKYM8lwyl9JkTwVEmLkfUGt55ALxDsO8/9CRjO502YHorRJMR qeV/CXhuTv3ijeTSxvHWYcX5XNwYVkIILZG57NyHSHtrL4LM/WehkyVmgMe2fpUg VWMg7hj0m7yfvAhGqo3HLh6sI8vJYNpB8K370//Egaw+36UOrPg5zvrPpCKtSv9s Fd90LmvsTTfs4Y79yqybqvHMkKUmWOclbCdmdtgURj/6bwCS48OFDdC+mL/9uNaK 8QST5SzvK38xn61vFspDhGMPi2tb2zdCKfNzjGBUPg4pp2Tf/+5WNQEsp300DiUp EysY31pMuFrquZHwv3LZY+5t8mSd4TYB8Lv8M6X2mXw0k9NbORZ8lISE1jcyvPJI kQw7IrwAIkeohuOXoQwrF/H5Bak5nXAVOH042j5N4MS6vLdEMJM= =IX9P -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kathy at kathyreid.id.au Fri Jun 3 15:02:49 2022 From: kathy at kathyreid.id.au (Kathy Reid) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2022 15:02:49 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Concerned Tech - influencing FinTech policy in the United States Message-ID: <004edf23-1b53-cf56-c32d-cfc108fb9dc0@kathyreid.id.au> Hi folx, If you despise blockchain, crypto and NFTs as much as I do, then you may be interested in: https://concerned.tech/ It's collective action by folx in the US to influence FinTech policy there to reduce the influence of the Shiny Magic Coins brigade over government. Best, Kathy From russell at coker.com.au Fri Jun 3 23:53:28 2022 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2022 23:53:28 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Meeting Saturday (tomorrow or today in NZ time) on Terraform Message-ID: <12014977.O9o76ZdvQC@liv> https://flounder.linux.org.au/events/flounder-june-2022/ On Saturday at 1PM Melbourne time we have the June meeting which is about Terraform. The training will be done on GCP but Terraform works on most clouds (I plan to use it on AWS). Free entry and no need to sign up. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From jwoithe at just42.net Mon Jun 6 19:02:33 2022 From: jwoithe at just42.net (Jonathan Woithe) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2022 18:32:33 +0930 Subject: [Linux-aus] Retro gaming racing wheel Message-ID: Hi everyone One of my collegues is cleaning out old electronics and has come across an old retro racing wheel: RadioShack Momo Racing Wheel with Table Base Cat No 26-8105 A photo is attached. It is not known whether it is still operational: the lack of suitable hardware and software makes testing difficult. It is thought that it was working when last used, possibly more than 20 years ago. The wheel is in Adelaide. My collegue wrote: Happy to sell/donate depending on circumstances. Let me know if anyone's interested. Regards jonathan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PC_gaming_wheel-small.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 51601 bytes Desc: not available URL: From andrew at sericyb.com.au Mon Jun 6 20:15:37 2022 From: andrew at sericyb.com.au (Andrew Pam) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2022 20:15:37 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Fwd: Main Meeting tomorrow night on "Dealing with Programming Languages" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Main Meeting tomorrow night on "Dealing with Programming Languages" Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2022 20:08:00 +1000 From: Alexar Pendashteh via luv-main Reply-To: Alexar Pendashteh Tomorrow is the first Tuesday of June and we'll be running our *monthly Main Meeting*. As per-usual, we'll spend some time chit chatting, showing off a cool gadget, our hobby project or playing some?guitar, because why not. Then we'll go through recent news in the Linux land and neighbouring islands. Finally we'll get into a group discussion on the topic of the month. This month we discuss the *tools, tips and tricks we use when dealing with a programming language* that is unfamiliar to us. It might be a language we want to get more proficient in or simply a once-off job that needs to be dealt with. Bring on your experiences of how to run or compile code, how to debug or how to distribute software in a language you are good at or you simply had to deal with once! If there are specific tips or tricks you would like to share during the meeting, [let us know][email committee] to include your name in the event description as a speaker, or otherwise simply bring it on during the discussion! Link to join: https://venue.electronworkshop.com.au/r/linux-victoria Schedule: 19:00 Meet and greet 19:30 News and announcements 20:00 Group discussion 21:00 Closure You may find the details of the event on LUV website: https://www.luv.asn.au/events/programming-languages-june2022/ RSVP (Optional): https://www.meetup.com/linux-users-of-victoria/events/285670454/ [email committee]: mailto:luv-ctte at luv.asn.au Alexar Pendashteh -- Acting President Linux Users of Victoria [LUV]: https://luv.asn.au/ From russell at coker.com.au Wed Jun 8 19:27:40 2022 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2022 19:27:40 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] 4K monitor sizes In-Reply-To: <9193020.2WqB4rESCP@xev> References: <1787910.QCnGb9OGeP@xev> <9193020.2WqB4rESCP@xev> Message-ID: <7920795.eFmWaWnqpD@xev> https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=158790 According to the above the DejaVu Sans and Droid Sans fonts are best for using few pixels. I was using Courier monospaced before at 8 point and now DejaVu Sans at 7 point which seems more readable. A fairly default Debian KDE setup doesn't have Droid Sans. Are there any fonts that are better for few pixels than DejaVu Sans that I should try? 4096/7=585, so with some space used by scroll bars and a panel that means I get 4 terminal windows that are each 100 characters wide across a 4K display with a bit of extra space for a 5th column that is partly obscured. That also gives 4 clear rows of terminals so I get clear visibility of 16 terminal windows that each have 100*25 text and for partially obscured windows that's another 9 more. Based on discussions here I am convinced that 43" is the correct choice. When holding up a meter ruler to my current 27" monitor 108cm doesn't seem significantly bigger. I just bought a Phillips 43" monitor because the price was good. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From a.nielsen at shikadi.net Wed Jun 8 21:02:33 2022 From: a.nielsen at shikadi.net (Adam Nielsen) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2022 21:02:33 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Terminal fonts (was: 4K monitor sizes) In-Reply-To: <7920795.eFmWaWnqpD@xev> References: <1787910.QCnGb9OGeP@xev> <9193020.2WqB4rESCP@xev> <7920795.eFmWaWnqpD@xev> Message-ID: <20220608210233.264480e4@vorticon.teln.shikadi.net> > According to the above the DejaVu Sans and Droid Sans fonts are best for using > few pixels. I was using Courier monospaced before at 8 point and now DejaVu > Sans at 7 point which seems more readable. A fairly default Debian KDE setup > doesn't have Droid Sans. Are there any fonts that are better for few pixels > than DejaVu Sans that I should try? For terminal windows I am quite fond of the Terminus font. Here is a link to the screenshots comparing font sizes: * http://terminus-font.sourceforge.net/shots.html On Arch Linux it's available in the "terminus-font" package. I'm sure other distributions have it prepackaged too. If not, you can download it from http://terminus-font.sourceforge.net/ > 4096/7=585, so with some space used by scroll bars and a panel that means I > get 4 terminal windows that are each 100 characters wide across a 4K display > with a bit of extra space for a 5th column that is partly obscured. That also > gives 4 clear rows of terminals so I get clear visibility of 16 terminal > windows that each have 100*25 text and for partially obscured windows that's > another 9 more. 4K is marketing, it's actually 3840 pixels wide (by 2160 high). Using Terminus size 140 gives me an 8x14 pixel cell for each character, so on a full-screen 4K terminal window that's 480 columns by 154 lines, with a few pixels left over at the bottom of the screen. I tend to run six terminal windows (three wide, two high) without any window decorations, so each window is 160 characters wide by 76 tall. A 4x4 grid like you describe would give you 120x38 character windows with the 8x14 Terminus font, with a row or column less if you have window borders and title bars visible, of course. Since we're discussing setups, I use GNU Screen to get multiple virtual terminals in the one window, so I tend to have only one window per machine I am connected to. I use rxvt-unicode as a terminal emulator primarily because it lets me set a background image for the terminal, so that I can put a different image for each machine I am connected to via SSH. I found it was easier to ensure I was typing commands into the correct machine by associating that unique background with a specific computer. Rather than having to scan each window looking for the hostname in the prompt or window title, just knowing that I want the window with the picture of the pumpkins in it for my file server for example, makes working across multiple computers much smoother for me. Of course this works because I'm only dealing with a small number of machines. If you're dealing with a large number (or only one) it probably won't be of much benefit. Cheers, Adam. From russell at coker.com.au Wed Jun 8 21:19:10 2022 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2022 21:19:10 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Terminal fonts (was: 4K monitor sizes) In-Reply-To: <20220608210233.264480e4@vorticon.teln.shikadi.net> References: <1787910.QCnGb9OGeP@xev> <7920795.eFmWaWnqpD@xev> <20220608210233.264480e4@vorticon.teln.shikadi.net> Message-ID: <2725188.6YUMPnJmAY@xev> On Wednesday, 8 June 2022 21:02:33 AEST Adam Nielsen wrote: > For terminal windows I am quite fond of the Terminus font. Here is a > link to the screenshots comparing font sizes: > > * http://terminus-font.sourceforge.net/shots.html Thanks for that suggestion, it's the fonts-terminus package in Debian. I'm currently testing it out in 8 point mode which gives the same width as 7 point in DejaVu Sans but slightly shorter so I get 5 extra rows of text on the screen. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From russell at coker.com.au Thu Jun 9 14:13:53 2022 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2022 14:13:53 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] SRV _kerberos._http.COMPANY.LOCAL. Message-ID: <2266725.ElGaqSPkdT@liv> I have a setup of sssd (the Linux Active Directory client) talking to a locally hosted AD instance which also has an Azure AD domain (which isn't supported by sssd) mirroring some of the data. I'm getting repeated DNS lookups for the above SRV entry, any idea of what this is about and what the right value should be? The real problem is poor performance with slow logins (like it's timing out trying to connect to the wrong server) and it appears that doing hundreds of DNS requests for things that don't exist is likely to be part of that problem. What does Kerberos expect with the _http service? Does it expect the server running on port 88? I'd appreciate any responses that give a clue here. Could be from the AD side how I can probe the AD setup or just guess what it's doing (assuming that most of it will be default options). Could be from the Linux/SSSD side of what the client is expecting and how to make it happy. Also I'm going to try to get the Ubuntu adsys package to work, currently installing it breaks AD on that workstation. But that's a later thing. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From ileyd at icloud.com Thu Jun 9 15:23:11 2022 From: ileyd at icloud.com (Lilac Kapul) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2022 15:23:11 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] SRV _kerberos._http.COMPANY.LOCAL. In-Reply-To: <2266725.ElGaqSPkdT@liv> References: <2266725.ElGaqSPkdT@liv> Message-ID: Hi Russell, How many groups are the users you login with a member of? Is the primary DNS search domain correct on the client machines? How many AD DCs do you have and are they on the same subnet? Warm Regards, Lilac Kapul (she/they) M 0432 114 172 E ileyd at icloud.com > On 9 Jun 2022, at 14:14, Russell Coker via linux-aus wrote: > > ?I have a setup of sssd (the Linux Active Directory client) talking to a > locally hosted AD instance which also has an Azure AD domain (which isn't > supported by sssd) mirroring some of the data. I'm getting repeated DNS > lookups for the above SRV entry, any idea of what this is about and what the > right value should be? > > The real problem is poor performance with slow logins (like it's timing out > trying to connect to the wrong server) and it appears that doing hundreds of > DNS requests for things that don't exist is likely to be part of that problem. > > What does Kerberos expect with the _http service? Does it expect the server > running on port 88? > > I'd appreciate any responses that give a clue here. Could be from the AD side > how I can probe the AD setup or just guess what it's doing (assuming that most > of it will be default options). Could be from the Linux/SSSD side of what the > client is expecting and how to make it happy. > > Also I'm going to try to get the Ubuntu adsys package to work, currently > installing it breaks AD on that workstation. But that's a later thing. > > -- > My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ > My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From frase at frase.id.au Thu Jun 9 15:45:35 2022 From: frase at frase.id.au (Fraser Tweedale) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2022 15:45:35 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] SRV _kerberos._http.COMPANY.LOCAL. In-Reply-To: <2266725.ElGaqSPkdT@liv> References: <2266725.ElGaqSPkdT@liv> Message-ID: On Thu, Jun 09, 2022 at 02:13:53PM +1000, Russell Coker via linux-aus wrote: > I have a setup of sssd (the Linux Active Directory client) talking to a > locally hosted AD instance which also has an Azure AD domain (which isn't > supported by sssd) mirroring some of the data. I'm getting repeated DNS > lookups for the above SRV entry, any idea of what this is about and what the > right value should be? > > The real problem is poor performance with slow logins (like it's timing out > trying to connect to the wrong server) and it appears that doing hundreds of > DNS requests for things that don't exist is likely to be part of that problem. > > What does Kerberos expect with the _http service? Does it expect the server > running on port 88? > I think it's looking for an MS-KKDCP[1] (a.k.a. "Kerberos HTTP proxy") service. The expected port is whatever the KDC proxy is running on. Typically 443, as the transport is HTTPS. If you're not running a KDC proxy leave this record undefined. [1] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/openspecs/windows_protocols/ms-kkdcp That said I can't see in the MIT Kerberos KDC discovery code how it could end up querying SRV _kerberos._http.REALM - rather it should be using URI records for KDC proxy discovery. But I might have missed something. Cheers, Fraser > I'd appreciate any responses that give a clue here. Could be from the AD side > how I can probe the AD setup or just guess what it's doing (assuming that most > of it will be default options). Could be from the Linux/SSSD side of what the > client is expecting and how to make it happy. > > Also I'm going to try to get the Ubuntu adsys package to work, currently > installing it breaks AD on that workstation. But that's a later thing. > > -- > My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ > My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au From brian at linuxpenguins.xyz Thu Jun 9 15:45:30 2022 From: brian at linuxpenguins.xyz (Brian May) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2022 15:45:30 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] SRV _kerberos._http.COMPANY.LOCAL. In-Reply-To: <2266725.ElGaqSPkdT@liv> References: <2266725.ElGaqSPkdT@liv> Message-ID: <87leu6qtj9.fsf@canidae.wired.pri> Russell Coker writes: > What does Kerberos expect with the _http service? Does it expect the > server running on port 88? I think it might be very different. As in the http protocol is a newer version of the kerberos protocol, or something like that. Been years since I looked at this, so don't take my word for it. -- Brian May https://linuxpenguins.xyz/brian/ From dwight at wwwalker.com.au Thu Jun 9 16:14:16 2022 From: dwight at wwwalker.com.au (Dwight Walker) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2022 16:14:16 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] please move technical support issues to another list Message-ID: Dear list members, Please move the tech support conversations to another list. Surely this list is for general Linux Australia announcements like meetings or conferences or elections. It was never used for technical support till the last few weeks or so. -- Dwight Walker WWWalker Web Development Pty Ltd https://wwwalker.com.au From russell at coker.com.au Thu Jun 9 16:51:38 2022 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2022 16:51:38 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] SRV _kerberos._http.COMPANY.LOCAL. In-Reply-To: References: <2266725.ElGaqSPkdT@liv> Message-ID: <2130168.irdbgypaU6@liv> On Thursday, 9 June 2022 15:45:35 AEST Fraser Tweedale wrote: > I think it's looking for an MS-KKDCP[1] (a.k.a. "Kerberos HTTP > proxy") service. The expected port is whatever the KDC proxy is > running on. Typically 443, as the transport is HTTPS. If you're > not running a KDC proxy leave this record undefined. > > [1] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/openspecs/windows_protocols/ms-kkdcp > > That said I can't see in the MIT Kerberos KDC discovery code how it > could end up querying SRV _kerberos._http.REALM - rather it should > be using URI records for KDC proxy discovery. But I might have > missed something. https://ubuntu.com/blog/new-active-directory-integration-features-in-ubuntu-22-04-part-2-group-policy-objects Thanks for that information. I stopped the adsys daemon (described at the above page) and the lookups for _kerberos._http.COMPANY.LOCAL. stopped. So it's not part of the sssd (which is just slow) but part of adsys (which is broken and causes total lack of functionality). -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From russell at coker.com.au Thu Jun 9 16:55:01 2022 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2022 16:55:01 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] SRV _kerberos._http.COMPANY.LOCAL. In-Reply-To: References: <2266725.ElGaqSPkdT@liv> Message-ID: <3197587.aeNJFYEL58@liv> On Thursday, 9 June 2022 15:23:11 AEST Lilac Kapul wrote: > How many groups are the users you login with a member of? My own account in that domain has 59 groups. That might be slightly higher than average (as I am a member of some sysadmin groups) but not a lot higher than average. > Is the primary DNS search domain correct on the client machines? How many AD > DCs do you have and are they on the same subnet? A problem that I face in this work is a lack of documentation on how it's setup and the people who know how it works being too busy to answer questions. How do I discover such things by probing the network? I can do so on Linux (Ubuntu 22.04 or 20.04) or Windows. Thanks -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From josh at hesketh.net.au Thu Jun 9 16:56:15 2022 From: josh at hesketh.net.au (Joshua Hesketh) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2022 16:56:15 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] please move technical support issues to another list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15cbe498-e1d4-59cb-c114-584d4fed52ef@hesketh.net.au> Hi Dwight, You may prefer to subscribe to the announce list which is intended for lower traffic here: https://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/announce As for this list, it's debatable what it is for (or even initially for), but I'm personally glad to see it getting some use :-). Cheers, Josh On 9/6/22 16:14, Dwight Walker via linux-aus wrote: > Dear list members, > > Please move the tech support conversations to another list. > > Surely this list is for general Linux Australia announcements like > meetings or conferences or elections. > > It was never used for technical support till the last few weeks or so. > From russell at coker.com.au Thu Jun 9 17:09:11 2022 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2022 17:09:11 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] please move technical support issues to another list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8099546.T7Z3S40VBb@liv> On Thursday, 9 June 2022 16:14:16 AEST Dwight Walker via linux-aus wrote: > Dear list members, > > Please move the tech support conversations to another list. > > Surely this list is for general Linux Australia announcements like > meetings or conferences or elections. > > It was never used for technical support till the last few weeks or so. http://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2021-August/023778.html This list has periodically been used for technical discussions over the years. Almost a year ago I started a discussion about the direction of this list, the above message seems to summarise the general feeling. If we determine that creating a separate list for technical discussions is a good idea then I'd be happy with that. Otherwise this seems like the best option for people wanting Linux advice in our region via email. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From david_crosswell at telaman.net.au Thu Jun 9 17:11:20 2022 From: david_crosswell at telaman.net.au (David) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2022 17:11:20 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] please move technical support issues to another list In-Reply-To: <15cbe498-e1d4-59cb-c114-584d4fed52ef@hesketh.net.au> References: <15cbe498-e1d4-59cb-c114-584d4fed52ef@hesketh.net.au> Message-ID: <20220609171120.5ee6a660.david_crosswell@telaman.net.au> On Thu, 9 Jun 2022 16:56:15 +1000 Joshua Hesketh via linux-aus wrote: > Hi Dwight, > > You may prefer to subscribe to the announce list which is intended for > lower traffic here: https://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/announce > > As for this list, it's debatable what it is for (or even initially for), > but I'm personally glad to see it getting some use :-). Yes, it's a low traffic list with no function without the current trend. It's good to see some community activity happening. Cheers! -- David Crosswell P.O. Box 477 100 Edward Street, Charleville 4470 Queensland Australia david_crosswell at telaman.net.au http://www.telaman.net.au/ From russell at coker.com.au Thu Jun 9 17:21:00 2022 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2022 17:21:00 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] SRV _kerberos._http.COMPANY.LOCAL. In-Reply-To: <2266725.ElGaqSPkdT@liv> References: <2266725.ElGaqSPkdT@liv> Message-ID: <21517934.EfDdHjke4D@liv> On Thursday, 9 June 2022 14:13:53 AEST Russell Coker via linux-aus wrote: > I have a setup of sssd (the Linux Active Directory client) talking to a > locally hosted AD instance which also has an Azure AD domain (which isn't > supported by sssd) mirroring some of the data. I'm getting repeated DNS > lookups for the above SRV entry, any idea of what this is about and what the > right value should be? Without the Ubuntu adsys (IE with only sssd) I get lookups like SRV _ldap._tcp.DCNAME._sites.company.local. where "DCNAME" is a substitution for the name of a DC that the company uses. So presumably somewhere in AD there's a list of server locations and the location "DCNAME" is given as one for my workstation to talk to. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From lloy0076 at adam.com.au Thu Jun 9 20:59:53 2022 From: lloy0076 at adam.com.au (David Lloyd) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2022 06:59:53 -0400 Subject: [Linux-aus] please move technical support issues to another list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There is an announcement only list at (https://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/announce). Technically this list claims that: Welcome to the Linux Australia primary mailing list. This mailing list is intended to carry discussions directly relating to the activities and projects of Linux Australia. Notices of general interest to the Linux community may also appear here from time to time, especially those relating to Linux activities within Australia. Ergo, technically they probably should go off of this list. My 2c whilst muttering something about vibrant communities, etc etc. DSL On 9/06/2022 2:14 am, Dwight Walker via linux-aus wrote: > Dear list members, > > Please move the tech support conversations to another list. > > Surely this list is for general Linux Australia announcements like > meetings or conferences or elections. > > It was never used for technical support till the last few weeks or so. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From russell at coker.com.au Thu Jun 9 23:13:53 2022 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2022 23:13:53 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] please move technical support issues to another list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3640544.VQhiAETyHQ@xev> On Thursday, 9 June 2022 20:59:53 AEST David Lloyd via linux-aus wrote: > Technically this list claims that: > > Welcome to the Linux Australia primary mailing list. > > This mailing list is intended to carry discussions directly relating > to the activities and projects of Linux Australia. Notices of general > interest to the Linux community may also appear here from time to time, > especially those relating to Linux activities within Australia. > > Ergo, technically they probably should go off of this list. https://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/flounder Such discussion is definitely on topic for the Flounder list. If it's declared that technical discussion is not on topic for this list it could be moved there. However most of the people participating in the recent discussions aren't on the Flounder list so there is less of a benefit in asking questions there at this time. If we could get a bunch of people to join the Flounder list that would change things. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From noel.butler at ausics.net Fri Jun 10 07:32:08 2022 From: noel.butler at ausics.net (Noel Butler) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2022 07:32:08 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] please move technical support issues to another list In-Reply-To: <3640544.VQhiAETyHQ@xev> References: <3640544.VQhiAETyHQ@xev> Message-ID: lets all sign up to all linux aus's lists, then try remember which one is on or off topic for what... heck... it wont be that hard really since the lists get about 10 posts a year.... jesus... if one objects to a topic - ignore the F'in thing.... its not like this is a high traffic list - which is when it would matter sp tech stuff doesnt get lost in noise, but on such a low traffic list like this, so low i'm sure most of us forget we are on it, it doesnt matter, now I dont and wont speak for the majority, but i'd be surprised if the silent majority disagreed. -- Regards, Noel Butler This Email, including attachments, may contain legally privileged information, therefore at all times remains confidential and subject to copyright protected under international law. You may not disseminate this message without the authors express written authority to do so. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender then delete all copies of this message including attachments immediately. Confidentiality, copyright, and legal privilege are not waived or lost by reason of the mistaken delivery of this message. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tfeccles at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 08:44:45 2022 From: tfeccles at gmail.com (Colin Fee) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2022 08:44:45 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] please move technical support issues to another list In-Reply-To: References: <3640544.VQhiAETyHQ@xev> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 at 07:32, Noel Butler via linux-aus < linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > lets all sign up to all linux aus's lists, then try remember which one is > on or off topic for what... heck... it wont be that hard really since the > lists get about 10 posts a year.... > > jesus... if one objects to a topic - ignore the F'in thing.... its not > like this is a high traffic list - which is when it would matter sp tech > stuff doesnt get lost in noise, but on such a low traffic list like this, > so low i'm sure most of us forget we are on it, it doesnt matter, now I > dont and wont speak for the majority, but i'd be surprised if the silent > majority disagreed. > -- > > Regards, > Noel Butler > > I guess I was one of the silent majority and I didn't agree with the sentiment. I've worked in IT for over 26 years now and one thing I tell most folks about email is that one, it's not instant messaging, and two, there's no compulsion to read all messages. -- Colin Fee tfeccles at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david at dward.us Sat Jun 11 00:29:14 2022 From: david at dward.us (David Ward) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2022 14:29:14 +0000 Subject: [Linux-aus] please move technical support issues to another list In-Reply-To: References: <3640544.VQhiAETyHQ@xev> Message-ID: <010801814e04eb71-6dfa0180-4a73-4621-b6e0-eef6aa522aca-000000@ap-southeast-2.amazonses.com> ????? I can both sites of the argument. I don't think an emotional response from anyone was needed though. One thing is for certain, it has created more dialogue than we've seen on this list for a long time ? On 10/6/22 08:44, Colin Fee via linux-aus wrote: > > > On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 at 07:32, Noel Butler via linux-aus > wrote: > > lets all sign up to all linux aus's lists, then try remember which > one is on or off topic for what... heck... it wont be that hard > really since the lists get about 10 posts a year.... > > jesus... if one objects to a topic - ignore the F'in thing.... its > not like this is a high traffic list - which is when it would > matter sp tech stuff doesnt get lost in noise, but on such a low > traffic list like this, so low i'm sure most of us forget we are > on it, it doesnt matter, now I dont and wont speak for the > majority, but i'd be surprised if the silent majority disagreed. > > -- > > Regards, > Noel Butler > > > > I guess I was one of the silent majority and I didn't agree?with the > sentiment. I've worked in IT for over 26 years now and one thing I > tell most folks about email is that one, it's not instant messaging, > and two, there's no compulsion to read all messages. > > > -- > Colin Fee > tfeccles at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From heracles1108 at gmail.com Sat Jun 11 10:13:51 2022 From: heracles1108 at gmail.com (Ashley) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2022 10:13:51 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] please move technical support issues to another list In-Reply-To: <010801814e04eb71-6dfa0180-4a73-4621-b6e0-eef6aa522aca-000000@ap-southeast-2.amazonses.com> References: <3640544.VQhiAETyHQ@xev> <010801814e04eb71-6dfa0180-4a73-4621-b6e0-eef6aa522aca-000000@ap-southeast-2.amazonses.com> Message-ID: <94779df6-d2bb-4aa3-1dd8-9539563d0b76@gmail.com> Hi All, I, for one, am gratified to see some discussion that is Linux related on any Linux list. We seem to have become quite silent since the original list split into many lists. I used to love reading the discussions on the SLUG list in the early days (1996- ...). The enthusiasm demonstrated then was infectious. I started using Linux with Ydrassil in about 1993 or so. It came on 11 5.25 inch floppy disks and was purely command line. I'm no expert but I learned a great deal from the various discussions on lists like this. Please keep it up. Ashley (AKA Heracles) On 11/6/22 00:29, David Ward via linux-aus wrote: > ????? > > I can both sites of the argument. I don't think an emotional response > from anyone was needed though. > > One thing is for certain, it has created more dialogue than we've seen > on this list for a long time ? > > > On 10/6/22 08:44, Colin Fee via linux-aus wrote: >> >> >> On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 at 07:32, Noel Butler via linux-aus >> wrote: >> >> lets all sign up to all linux aus's lists, then try remember >> which one is on or off topic for what... heck... it wont be that >> hard really since the lists get about 10 posts a year.... >> >> jesus... if one objects to a topic - ignore the F'in thing.... >> its not like this is a high traffic list - which is when it would >> matter sp tech stuff doesnt get lost in noise, but on such a low >> traffic list like this, so low i'm sure most of us forget we are >> on it, it doesnt matter, now I dont and wont speak for the >> majority, but i'd be surprised if the silent majority disagreed. >> >> -- >> >> Regards, >> Noel Butler >> >> >> >> I guess I was one of the silent majority and I didn't agree?with the >> sentiment. I've worked in IT for over 26 years now and one thing I >> tell most folks about email is that one, it's not instant messaging, >> and two, there's no compulsion to read all messages. >> >> >> -- >> Colin Fee >> tfeccles at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> linux-aus mailing list >> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au >> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus >> >> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to >> linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au > > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rhysjohnlewis at gmail.com Sat Jun 11 10:43:20 2022 From: rhysjohnlewis at gmail.com (Rhys Lewis) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2022 08:43:20 +0800 Subject: [Linux-aus] please move technical support issues to another list In-Reply-To: <94779df6-d2bb-4aa3-1dd8-9539563d0b76@gmail.com> References: <3640544.VQhiAETyHQ@xev> <010801814e04eb71-6dfa0180-4a73-4621-b6e0-eef6aa522aca-000000@ap-southeast-2.amazonses.com> <94779df6-d2bb-4aa3-1dd8-9539563d0b76@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi All, Both sides have some delicious points and I too am gratified to some discussion on a Linux list. However, has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? Sincerely, Rhys On Sat, 11 Jun 2022, 08:14 Ashley via linux-aus, < linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > Hi All, > > I, for one, am gratified to see some discussion that is Linux related on > any Linux list. We seem to have become quite silent since the original list > split into many lists. > > I used to love reading the discussions on the SLUG list in the early days > (1996- ...). The enthusiasm demonstrated then was infectious. I started > using Linux with Ydrassil in about 1993 or so. It came on 11 5.25 inch > floppy disks and was purely command line. I'm no expert but I learned a > great deal from the various discussions on lists like this. Please keep it > up. > > Ashley (AKA Heracles) > > > On 11/6/22 00:29, David Ward via linux-aus wrote: > > ????? > > I can both sites of the argument. I don't think an emotional response from > anyone was needed though. > > One thing is for certain, it has created more dialogue than we've seen on > this list for a long time ? > > > On 10/6/22 08:44, Colin Fee via linux-aus wrote: > > > > On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 at 07:32, Noel Butler via linux-aus < > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > >> lets all sign up to all linux aus's lists, then try remember which one is >> on or off topic for what... heck... it wont be that hard really since the >> lists get about 10 posts a year.... >> >> jesus... if one objects to a topic - ignore the F'in thing.... its not >> like this is a high traffic list - which is when it would matter sp tech >> stuff doesnt get lost in noise, but on such a low traffic list like this, >> so low i'm sure most of us forget we are on it, it doesnt matter, now I >> dont and wont speak for the majority, but i'd be surprised if the silent >> majority disagreed. >> -- >> >> Regards, >> Noel Butler >> >> > I guess I was one of the silent majority and I didn't agree with the > sentiment. I've worked in IT for over 26 years now and one thing I tell > most folks about email is that one, it's not instant messaging, and two, > there's no compulsion to read all messages. > > > -- > Colin Fee > tfeccles at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing listlinux-aus at lists.linux.org.auhttp://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email tolinux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au > > > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing listlinux-aus at lists.linux.org.auhttp://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email tolinux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From meyerri at gmail.com Sat Jun 11 11:09:23 2022 From: meyerri at gmail.com (Richard Meyer) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2022 11:09:23 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] please move technical support issues to another list In-Reply-To: References: <3640544.VQhiAETyHQ@xev> <010801814e04eb71-6dfa0180-4a73-4621-b6e0-eef6aa522aca-000000@ap-southeast-2.amazonses.com> <94779df6-d2bb-4aa3-1dd8-9539563d0b76@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Rhys, Having read your post a time or 4, I'm not sure what you're saying ... I suspect that, like me, you are leaning back and watching for a consensus. As for Ashley, you beat me to Linux bay a few years, I started with Slackware in 1995 (I even found a book on Yggdrassil in my local bookshop (with a CD), in about 1996, but by that time it was incredibly out of date, since we were running kernel 1,2,8 by that time ... ;) I was also able to run the experimental 1.3.20 IIRC. And now, we have split the discussion again ... :) -- Richard Meyer Linux Counter user #306629 On Sat, Jun 11, 2022 at 10:43 AM Rhys Lewis via linux-aus < linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > Hi All, > > Both sides have some delicious points and I too am gratified to some > discussion on a Linux list. > > However, has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to > do look more like? > > Sincerely, > Rhys > > On Sat, 11 Jun 2022, 08:14 Ashley via linux-aus, < > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> I, for one, am gratified to see some discussion that is Linux related on >> any Linux list. We seem to have become quite silent since the original list >> split into many lists. >> >> I used to love reading the discussions on the SLUG list in the early days >> (1996- ...). The enthusiasm demonstrated then was infectious. I started >> using Linux with Ydrassil in about 1993 or so. It came on 11 5.25 inch >> floppy disks and was purely command line. I'm no expert but I learned a >> great deal from the various discussions on lists like this. Please keep it >> up. >> >> Ashley (AKA Heracles) >> >> >> On 11/6/22 00:29, David Ward via linux-aus wrote: >> >> ????? >> >> I can both sites of the argument. I don't think an emotional response >> from anyone was needed though. >> >> One thing is for certain, it has created more dialogue than we've seen on >> this list for a long time ? >> >> >> On 10/6/22 08:44, Colin Fee via linux-aus wrote: >> >> >> >> On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 at 07:32, Noel Butler via linux-aus < >> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: >> >>> lets all sign up to all linux aus's lists, then try remember which one >>> is on or off topic for what... heck... it wont be that hard really since >>> the lists get about 10 posts a year.... >>> >>> jesus... if one objects to a topic - ignore the F'in thing.... its not >>> like this is a high traffic list - which is when it would matter sp tech >>> stuff doesnt get lost in noise, but on such a low traffic list like this, >>> so low i'm sure most of us forget we are on it, it doesnt matter, now I >>> dont and wont speak for the majority, but i'd be surprised if the silent >>> majority disagreed. >>> -- >>> >>> Regards, >>> Noel Butler >>> >>> >> I guess I was one of the silent majority and I didn't agree with the >> sentiment. I've worked in IT for over 26 years now and one thing I tell >> most folks about email is that one, it's not instant messaging, and two, >> there's no compulsion to read all messages. >> >> >> -- >> Colin Fee >> tfeccles at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> linux-aus mailing listlinux-aus at lists.linux.org.auhttp://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus >> >> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email tolinux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> linux-aus mailing listlinux-aus at lists.linux.org.auhttp://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus >> >> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email tolinux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au >> >> _______________________________________________ >> linux-aus mailing list >> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au >> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus >> >> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to >> linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tfeccles at gmail.com Sat Jun 11 11:41:03 2022 From: tfeccles at gmail.com (Colin Fee) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2022 11:41:03 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] please move technical support issues to another list In-Reply-To: References: <3640544.VQhiAETyHQ@xev> <010801814e04eb71-6dfa0180-4a73-4621-b6e0-eef6aa522aca-000000@ap-southeast-2.amazonses.com> <94779df6-d2bb-4aa3-1dd8-9539563d0b76@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Jun 2022 at 10:43, Rhys Lewis via linux-aus < linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > Hi All, > > Both sides have some delicious points and I too am gratified to some > discussion on a Linux list. > > However, has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to > do look more like? > > Pardon? -- Colin Fee tfeccles at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at sericyb.com.au Sat Jun 11 11:45:10 2022 From: andrew at sericyb.com.au (Andrew Pam) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2022 11:45:10 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] please move technical support issues to another list In-Reply-To: References: <3640544.VQhiAETyHQ@xev> <010801814e04eb71-6dfa0180-4a73-4621-b6e0-eef6aa522aca-000000@ap-southeast-2.amazonses.com> <94779df6-d2bb-4aa3-1dd8-9539563d0b76@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7d7fa2f0-5529-a659-a218-a40d7aeb00d1@sericyb.com.au> On 11/6/22 11:41, Colin Fee via linux-aus wrote: > Pardon? You're welcome. Cheers, Andrew -- mailto:andrew at sericyb.com.au Andrew Pam https://sericyb.com.au/ Manager, Serious Cybernetics https://glasswings.com.au/ Partner, Glass Wings From tfeccles at gmail.com Sat Jun 11 11:54:49 2022 From: tfeccles at gmail.com (Colin Fee) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2022 11:54:49 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] please move technical support issues to another list In-Reply-To: <7d7fa2f0-5529-a659-a218-a40d7aeb00d1@sericyb.com.au> References: <3640544.VQhiAETyHQ@xev> <010801814e04eb71-6dfa0180-4a73-4621-b6e0-eef6aa522aca-000000@ap-southeast-2.amazonses.com> <94779df6-d2bb-4aa3-1dd8-9539563d0b76@gmail.com> <7d7fa2f0-5529-a659-a218-a40d7aeb00d1@sericyb.com.au> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Jun 2022 at 11:45, Andrew Pam wrote: > On 11/6/22 11:41, Colin Fee via linux-aus wrote: > > Pardon? > > < > https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/has-anyone-really-been-far-even-as-decided-to-use-even-go-want-to-do-look-more-like > > > > You're welcome. > > Cheers, > Andrew > Thanks, none the wiser though. In fact, having read that, I feel like I've regressed. It's the interwebs I suppose. -- Colin Fee tfeccles at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at sericyb.com.au Sat Jun 11 11:58:09 2022 From: andrew at sericyb.com.au (Andrew Pam) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2022 11:58:09 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] please move technical support issues to another list In-Reply-To: References: <3640544.VQhiAETyHQ@xev> <010801814e04eb71-6dfa0180-4a73-4621-b6e0-eef6aa522aca-000000@ap-southeast-2.amazonses.com> <94779df6-d2bb-4aa3-1dd8-9539563d0b76@gmail.com> <7d7fa2f0-5529-a659-a218-a40d7aeb00d1@sericyb.com.au> Message-ID: <4e2e40a8-b0d8-ecb6-4c84-15fb0df9b4c5@sericyb.com.au> On 11/6/22 11:54, Colin Fee via linux-aus wrote: > Thanks, none the wiser though. In fact, having read that, I feel like > I've regressed. It's the interwebs I suppose. Indeed! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surreal_humour It's not for everyone. Cheers, Andrew -- mailto:andrew at sericyb.com.au Andrew Pam https://sericyb.com.au/ Manager, Serious Cybernetics https://glasswings.com.au/ Partner, Glass Wings From info at petermoulding.com Sat Jun 11 12:31:06 2022 From: info at petermoulding.com (Info) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2022 12:31:06 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] please move technical support issues to another list In-Reply-To: References: <3640544.VQhiAETyHQ@xev> <010801814e04eb71-6dfa0180-4a73-4621-b6e0-eef6aa522aca-000000@ap-southeast-2.amazonses.com> <94779df6-d2bb-4aa3-1dd8-9539563d0b76@gmail.com> Message-ID: <92fbb32f-73ce-b253-9d3e-7065cfd0cf9e@petermoulding.com> I find issues on a mailing list too hard to follow. When there is more activity, each item for a an issue is buried. Issues are better in an online forum where you can see all the entries for an issue in one page. At most, the mailing list should announce the creation of an issue. We could then subscribe or not to each issue in the forum. This list is currently 5 or 10 email per day. I will unsubscribe if it is more. I help people with Linux on two forums and both are set to send update mail only for the issues where I choose to subscribe. There is just one mail telling me there is an update, even if there are 10 updates before I choose to visit the issue. This means I can concentrate on issues where I can contribute. From quozl at laptop.org Sat Jun 11 12:47:10 2022 From: quozl at laptop.org (James Cameron) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2022 12:47:10 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] please move technical support issues to another list In-Reply-To: <92fbb32f-73ce-b253-9d3e-7065cfd0cf9e@petermoulding.com> References: <3640544.VQhiAETyHQ@xev> <010801814e04eb71-6dfa0180-4a73-4621-b6e0-eef6aa522aca-000000@ap-southeast-2.amazonses.com> <94779df6-d2bb-4aa3-1dd8-9539563d0b76@gmail.com> <92fbb32f-73ce-b253-9d3e-7065cfd0cf9e@petermoulding.com> Message-ID: <20220611024710.GA39061@laptop.org> On Sat, Jun 11, 2022 at 12:31:06PM +1000, Info via linux-aus wrote: > I find issues on a mailing list too hard to follow. When there is > more activity, each item for a an issue is buried. [...] Sounds like opportunity for mail client with threading and history. And not always using Inbox Zero strategy. From info at petermoulding.com Sat Jun 11 12:52:07 2022 From: info at petermoulding.com (Info) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2022 12:52:07 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] please move technical support issues to another list In-Reply-To: References: <3640544.VQhiAETyHQ@xev> <010801814e04eb71-6dfa0180-4a73-4621-b6e0-eef6aa522aca-000000@ap-southeast-2.amazonses.com> <94779df6-d2bb-4aa3-1dd8-9539563d0b76@gmail.com> Message-ID: <240dee9d-f446-8bb6-b62c-4053087bbcf4@petermoulding.com> On 11/6/22 11:09, Richard Meyer via linux-aus wrote: > As for Ashley, you beat me to Linux bay a few years, I started with Slackware in 1995 (I even found > a book on Yggdrassil in my local bookshop (with a CD), in about 1996, but by that time it was Ok, a bragging competition on who used Linux first. I had a slate disk recovered from a pyramid. The disk had Linux as 9 lines of source code. That version of the kernel supported antimatter as used in the USS Enterprise but not 8K video. :-( I did test the first floppy disk with Slackware back in 1892 but the first stable Debian was the first Linux usable on any of my machines for all the tasks I needed. I really liked a later Debian with the full set of 3,798 floppies that started the install with "Do you want fries with that". Well, maybe not quite those words. There was a list of options like File server, Print server, Espresso, Vegan, etc. I must have set up hundreds of servers using that set. Linux Mint is my current choice on the desktop. Despite all the lite versions for servers, I find it is easier to install a full GUI distribution on a server and use the GUI for config, maintenance, etc. From blakjak at blakjak.net Sat Jun 11 15:06:07 2022 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2022 17:06:07 +1200 Subject: [Linux-aus] please move technical support issues to another list In-Reply-To: <92fbb32f-73ce-b253-9d3e-7065cfd0cf9e@petermoulding.com> References: <3640544.VQhiAETyHQ@xev> <010801814e04eb71-6dfa0180-4a73-4621-b6e0-eef6aa522aca-000000@ap-southeast-2.amazonses.com> <94779df6-d2bb-4aa3-1dd8-9539563d0b76@gmail.com> <92fbb32f-73ce-b253-9d3e-7065cfd0cf9e@petermoulding.com> Message-ID: <818D8A67-EA98-44DA-963E-DC5B4DD534B9@blakjak.net> I agree that threading and filtering (even ad-hoc whilst reading your email) would solve this. Mailing lists have been providing a common-baselime information exchange forum for a very long time, including well before web forums became popular or ubiquitous. The mail traffic on any given list will wax and wane based on the demands of the time, if you unsubscribe because this list is seeing actual activity, "so long" I guess. I dont read everything posted here, nor do I feel the need to. Don't set yourself up to fail unnecessarily. You needn't be part of every conversation to be part of the community. Mark. On 11 June 2022 2:31:06 pm NZST, Info via linux-aus wrote: >I find issues on a mailing list too hard to follow. When there is more activity, each item for a an issue is buried. Issues are better in an online forum where you can see all the entries for an issue in one page. At most, the mailing list should announce the creation of an issue. We could then subscribe or not to each issue in the forum. > >This list is currently 5 or 10 email per day. I will unsubscribe if it is more. > >I help people with Linux on two forums and both are set to send update mail only for the issues where I choose to subscribe. There is just one mail telling me there is an update, even if there are 10 updates before I choose to visit the issue. This means I can concentrate on issues where I can contribute. >_______________________________________________ >linux-aus mailing list >linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au >http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > >To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to >linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -- Sent from a mobile device. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From russell at coker.com.au Sat Jun 11 23:07:06 2022 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2022 23:07:06 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] please move technical support issues to another list In-Reply-To: <94779df6-d2bb-4aa3-1dd8-9539563d0b76@gmail.com> References: <010801814e04eb71-6dfa0180-4a73-4621-b6e0-eef6aa522aca-000000@ap-southeast-2.amazonses.com> <94779df6-d2bb-4aa3-1dd8-9539563d0b76@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2907590.e9J7NaK4W3@xev> On Saturday, 11 June 2022 10:13:51 AEST Ashley via linux-aus wrote: > I, for one, am gratified to see some discussion that is Linux related on > any Linux list. We seem to have become quite silent since the original > list split into many lists. > > I used to love reading the discussions on the SLUG list in the early > days (1996- ...). The enthusiasm demonstrated then was infectious. I Given that most LUG mailing lists are dead or close to dead I think it makes sense to have a list of larger scope for technical discussion. The Flounder list is appropriate for such things (we got 2 new members when I last mentioned it) but this list has the people. I propose that every web page for every LUG in Australia have a pointer to this list instead of their own list. On Saturday, 11 June 2022 12:31:06 AEST Info via linux-aus wrote: > I find issues on a mailing list too hard to follow. When there is more > activity, each item for a an issue is buried. Issues are better in an > online forum where you can see all the entries for an issue in one page. At > most, the mailing list should announce the creation of an issue. We could > then subscribe or not to each issue in the forum. We could have a forum. Last I heard the LA council was opposed to running a forum, but we could run one under Flounder if we have a volunteer to do it. I'm happy to provide all the resources needed to run a forum and help out with sysadmin. https://community.nzoss.nz/ The NZOSS forum should also be a good option. They run things well. I'm not really into forums, so I'll let the people who are advise on the best options in this regard. https://lemmy.perthchat.org/ Another option is Lemmy, the federated FOSS competitor to Reddit. Perthchat runs a Lemmy server and I'm sure they would be happy to host any Linux spaces under that. I created an account on the Perthchat Lemmy server but haven't really used it. PS The one guaranteed way of getting more traffic on a list is to start a thread saying "we should have less traffic". -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From noel.butler at ausics.net Sun Jun 12 00:21:37 2022 From: noel.butler at ausics.net (Noel Butler) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 00:21:37 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] please move technical support issues to another list In-Reply-To: <2907590.e9J7NaK4W3@xev> References: <010801814e04eb71-6dfa0180-4a73-4621-b6e0-eef6aa522aca-000000@ap-southeast-2.amazonses.com> <94779df6-d2bb-4aa3-1dd8-9539563d0b76@gmail.com> <2907590.e9J7NaK4W3@xev> Message-ID: <418fc1d2e87cb8df69ebe65e06862720@ausics.net> On 11/06/2022 23:07, Russell Coker via linux-aus wrote: > On Saturday, 11 June 2022 10:13:51 AEST Ashley via linux-aus wrote: > >> I, for one, am gratified to see some discussion that is Linux related >> on >> any Linux list. We seem to have become quite silent since the original >> list split into many lists. >> >> I used to love reading the discussions on the SLUG list in the early >> days (1996- ...). The enthusiasm demonstrated then was infectious. I > > Given that most LUG mailing lists are dead or close to dead I think it > makes > sense to have a list of larger scope for technical discussion. The > Flounder > list is appropriate for such things (we got 2 new members when I last > mentioned it) but this list has the people. > > I propose that every web page for every LUG in Australia have a pointer > to > this list instead of their own list. > > On Saturday, 11 June 2022 12:31:06 AEST Info via linux-aus wrote: > >> I find issues on a mailing list too hard to follow. When there is more >> activity, each item for a an issue is buried. Issues are better in an >> online forum where you can see all the entries for an issue in one >> page. At >> most, the mailing list should announce the creation of an issue. We >> could >> then subscribe or not to each issue in the forum. > > We could have a forum. Last I heard the LA council was opposed to > running a > forum, but we could run one under Flounder if we have a volunteer to do > it. > I'm happy to provide all the resources needed to run a forum and help > out with > sysadmin. > > https://community.nzoss.nz/ > > The NZOSS forum should also be a good option. They run things well. > I'm not > really into forums, so I'll let the people who are advise on the best > options > in this regard. > > https://lemmy.perthchat.org/ > > Another option is Lemmy, the federated FOSS competitor to Reddit. > Perthchat > runs a Lemmy server and I'm sure they would be happy to host any Linux > spaces > under that. I created an account on the Perthchat Lemmy server but > haven't > really used it. > > PS The one guaranteed way of getting more traffic on a list is to > start a > thread saying "we should have less traffic". what was that... less traffic... we've had more posts in past 24 hours, 13 infact (so byebye info at petermoulding.com) then we've had in 6 months, mailman is starting to feel loved again :) Oh can I be the first to say it???? forums suck, all that extra crappy h t m l eye candy rubbish, ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww -- Regards, Noel Butler This Email, including attachments, may contain legally privileged information, therefore at all times remains confidential and subject to copyright protected under international law. You may not disseminate this message without the authors express written authority to do so. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender then delete all copies of this message including attachments immediately. Confidentiality, copyright, and legal privilege are not waived or lost by reason of the mistaken delivery of this message. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From a.nielsen at shikadi.net Sun Jun 12 03:04:06 2022 From: a.nielsen at shikadi.net (Adam Nielsen) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 03:04:06 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] please move technical support issues to another list In-Reply-To: <2907590.e9J7NaK4W3@xev> References: <010801814e04eb71-6dfa0180-4a73-4621-b6e0-eef6aa522aca-000000@ap-southeast-2.amazonses.com> <94779df6-d2bb-4aa3-1dd8-9539563d0b76@gmail.com> <2907590.e9J7NaK4W3@xev> Message-ID: <20220612030406.5086f237@vorticon.teln.shikadi.net> > Given that most LUG mailing lists are dead or close to dead I think > it makes sense to have a list of larger scope for technical > discussion. The Flounder list is appropriate for such things (we got > 2 new members when I last mentioned it) but this list has the people. Perhaps the reason those lists have little traffic is because there are so many better alternatives these days? Each Linux distro has their own forum for distribution-specific questions - just to name a few: * Arch: https://bbs.archlinux.org * Debian: https://forums.debian.net * Gentoo: https://forums.gentoo.org * Mint: https://forums.linuxmint.com * OpenWRT: https://forum.openwrt.org * Ubuntu: https://ubuntuforums.org If you have a question that's not specific to one distribution the Unix & Linux Stackexchange site is very good: https://unix.stackexchange.com/ If you have a Linux related programming question there is Stack Overflow: https://stackoverflow.com If you have a Linux server related question there is Server Fault: https://serverfault.com If your question is about using Linux on a Raspberry Pi there is a whole forum dedicated to just that: https://forums.raspberrypi.com Most applications have their own user support forums and/or e-mail lists too. Do you want help figuring out how to get Windows clients connecting to your Linux server? Samba has a users list: https://lists.samba.org/archive/samba/ Having problems figuring how to to encode a video with ffmpeg? There's a list for asking questions: http://ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-user/ Having trouble with the lowly "rmdir" command? Yes, there's a list for that too: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/coreutils/ Really, whatever you want to ask about Linux or the applications that run on it, there is almost certainly a web forum or e-mail list that already covers it. > We could have a forum. Last I heard the LA council was opposed to > running a forum, but we could run one under Flounder if we have a > volunteer to do it. What would another new forum cater for, that isn't already covered? Given how quiet this list is about issues specific to Australia, presumably a forum for Australian issues relating to Linux would be similarly quiet. This list has never really been a great fit for technical questions. Not because they are off topic, but because the audience is mostly people interested in Linux and open source issues affecting Australia. Asking technical questions on this list is more like foregoing a library visit and heading down to your local pub for help instead. Maybe the locals will be able to help, but unless you're asking a question about the local area, you'll be much less likely to happen upon someone with expert knowledge on your specific issue. I think this list should stick to issues relating to Australia, and whether technical questions are on topic or not is a moot point - there are far better places to be asking technical questions already. Cheers, Adam. From quozl at laptop.org Sun Jun 12 07:14:04 2022 From: quozl at laptop.org (James Cameron) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 07:14:04 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] please move technical support issues to another list In-Reply-To: <20220612030406.5086f237@vorticon.teln.shikadi.net> References: <010801814e04eb71-6dfa0180-4a73-4621-b6e0-eef6aa522aca-000000@ap-southeast-2.amazonses.com> <94779df6-d2bb-4aa3-1dd8-9539563d0b76@gmail.com> <2907590.e9J7NaK4W3@xev> <20220612030406.5086f237@vorticon.teln.shikadi.net> Message-ID: <20220611211404.GA75495@laptop.org> Yes, many technical alternatives, but with different cultures and identities. Some of them resist new posts by demanding use of a template, or fail to respond to people with names or visible identities that conflict with norms in other countries. The value of this mailing list arises from the same effects we find at linux.conf.au conferences; - Australian language usage; making it just that little bit easier to communicate, - Australian cultural identity; all those in-jokes are settled already, there's no desire to do the drop-bear thing, - Australian society's acceptance of multiple identity; even if you are a hermit in the outback, your posts can be acceptable, - geographical co-location; finding someone in your own area willing to come around to help, sell you something, or tell you about a job, - temporal co-location; responses that happen in our own time zone rather than the huge wait posed by many international services. I'm fine with the traffic so far. It's my job to filter or unsubscribe if I'm not. From simon at darkmere.gen.nz Sun Jun 12 16:53:48 2022 From: simon at darkmere.gen.nz (Simon Lyall) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 18:53:48 +1200 (NZST) Subject: [Linux-aus] LCA 2023 ? Message-ID: Just wondering when there will be an announcement on the status of Linux.conf.au 2023 ? -- Simon Lyall | Very Busy | Web: http://www.simonlyall.com/ "To stay awake all night adds a day to your life" - Stilgar From svetlana.tkachenko at fastmail.com Sun Jun 12 07:22:21 2022 From: svetlana.tkachenko at fastmail.com (Svetlana Tkachenko) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 07:22:21 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] 4K monitor sizes In-Reply-To: <1787910.QCnGb9OGeP@xev> References: <1787910.QCnGb9OGeP@xev> Message-ID: Hi all Thanks for lots of detail on dpi and layouts here. Now I also would like to increase screen estate by getting one bigger monitor. :-) Do you have a tip where to buy a 4k monitor or a HD 24" monitor at least (someone getting rid of one and would like to sell?) before eofy, i.e. end of this month? I've searched a few online computer hardware stores but the prices aren't that good. Dell preferred. I am in the Sydney area. Thanks, Svetlana From lilac at dissonance.tech Sun Jun 12 17:15:39 2022 From: lilac at dissonance.tech (Lilac Kapul) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 07:15:39 +0000 Subject: [Linux-aus] LCA 2023 ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Simon, You might want to send the question to the Linux Australia Council list (committee at lists.linux.org.au) to maximise the chance of getting a response from those involved in the preparation. I will bring the question to the attention of the Council at our next meeting. Warm Regards, Lilac Kapul (she/they) Ordinary Council Member M 0432 114 172 E lilac at dissonance.tech W linux.org.au [image001.png] GPO Box 4788 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia ARBN 618 108 544 ABN 56 987 117 479 Linux Australia acknowledges the Traditional Custodians of the lands and waters where we live, learn and meet. We pay our respects to Elders past and present, and extend our respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander and First Nations Peoples. On 12 Jun 2022, at 16:54, Simon Lyall via linux-aus wrote: ? Just wondering when there will be an announcement on the status of Linux.conf.au 2023 ? -- Simon Lyall | Very Busy | Web: http://www.simonlyall.com/ "To stay awake all night adds a day to your life" - Stilgar _______________________________________________ linux-aus mailing list linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 21877 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: From joel at addison.net.au Mon Jun 13 20:55:50 2022 From: joel at addison.net.au (Joel Addison) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2022 20:55:50 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] LCA 2023 ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Simon, The Linux Australia Council has been discussing this over the past few months to determine what should happen next year. We have not got all the details sorted as yet, but we should have an announcement in the next few weeks. If you have any questions in the meantime, please reach out to myself or Council. Kind regards, Joel Addison President Linux Australia president at linux.org.au http://linux.org.au Linux Australia Inc GPO Box 4788 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia Limited Liability (NSW) Y2998126 ABN 56 987 117 479 ARBN 618 108 544 > On 12 Jun 2022, at 4:53 pm, Simon Lyall via linux-aus wrote: > > > Just wondering when there will be an announcement on the status of Linux.conf.au 2023 ? > > -- > Simon Lyall | Very Busy | Web: http://www.simonlyall.com/ > "To stay awake all night adds a day to your life" - Stilgar From paulway at mabula.net Mon Jun 13 21:14:57 2022 From: paulway at mabula.net (Paul Wayper) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2022 21:14:57 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] LCA 2023 ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 13/6/22 8:55 pm, Joel Addison via linux-aus wrote: > Hi Simon, > > The Linux Australia Council has been discussing this over the past few months to determine what should happen next year. We have not got all the details sorted as yet, but we should have an announcement in the next few weeks. Just an observation, then: Linux Australia intends LCA 2023 to be an online only conference. Let's assume that the LA Council makes an announcement by the end of June.? Given that the LA Council has not announced any request for volunteers to organise a committee, it seems to me that the LA committee will follow up the announcement about LCA 2023 with a request for volunteers.? That would take a couple of weeks at least.? So from mid June the LCA organising committee would then have six months, roughly, to find a conference venue, dinner venues, keynotes, speakers, and caterers.? That, to me, seems... a lot of work in a short space of time. From about 2011 IIRC the lead time between a team forming and putting in a bid to run LCA and that team actually putting on LCA was pushed from one year to two.? I think the reason given at the time by the LA Council was that it had become too much work to put together an (then in-person) LCA in less than an entire year. So unless the LA Council has had a bid process it has not publicly announced and already chosen a team and that team already has several of the above major pieces of an in-person LCA already organised... then I think we can safely assume that it's going to be an online-only LCA. I looked in the LA Council minutes and the last council meeting that we have minutes for seems to be on the 12th of January 2022: https://linux.org.au/category/linux-australia/council-meetings/ There don't seem to be any notes on LCA 2023 (in any form) in there.? I have to assume, given the lack of minutes, that there have been no other Council meetings since then. So I'm wondering... Why so coy about the form that LCA 2023 will take? Regards, Paul Wayper -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From russell at coker.com.au Mon Jun 13 21:42:18 2022 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2022 21:42:18 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] 4K monitor sizes In-Reply-To: References: <1787910.QCnGb9OGeP@xev> Message-ID: <3641354.MHq7AAxBmi@liv> On Sunday, 12 June 2022 07:22:21 AEST Svetlana Tkachenko via linux-aus wrote: > Hi all > > Thanks for lots of detail on dpi and layouts here. Now I also would like to > increase screen estate by getting one bigger monitor. :-) > > Do you have a tip where to buy a 4k monitor or a HD 24" monitor at least > (someone getting rid of one and would like to sell?) before eofy, i.e. end > of this month? I've searched a few online computer hardware stores but the > prices aren't that good. Dell preferred. I am in the Sydney area. https://www.dell.com/en-au/shop/dell-s2722qc-27-4k-uhd-usb-c-monitor/apd/210-bccw/monitors-monitor-accessories What do you consider a good price? A 27" 4K monitor for $422 including delivery seems like a good price to me! -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From joel at addison.net.au Mon Jun 13 21:51:38 2022 From: joel at addison.net.au (Joel Addison) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2022 21:51:38 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] LCA 2023 ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On 13 Jun 2022, at 9:14 pm, Paul Wayper via linux-aus wrote: > > On 13/6/22 8:55 pm, Joel Addison via linux-aus wrote: >> Hi Simon, >> >> The Linux Australia Council has been discussing this over the past few months to determine what should happen next year. We have not got all the details sorted as yet, but we should have an announcement in the next few weeks. > Just an observation, then: Linux Australia intends LCA 2023 to be an online only conference. > > Let's assume that the LA Council makes an announcement by the end of June. Given that the LA Council has not announced any request for volunteers to organise a committee, it seems to me that the LA committee will follow up the announcement about LCA 2023 with a request for volunteers. That would take a couple of weeks at least. So from mid June the LCA organising committee would then have six months, roughly, to find a conference venue, dinner venues, keynotes, speakers, and caterers. That, to me, seems... a lot of work in a short space of time. > > From about 2011 IIRC the lead time between a team forming and putting in a bid to run LCA and that team actually putting on LCA was pushed from one year to two. I think the reason given at the time by the LA Council was that it had become too much work to put together an (then in-person) LCA in less than an entire year. > > So unless the LA Council has had a bid process it has not publicly announced and already chosen a team and that team already has several of the above major pieces of an in-person LCA already organised... then I think we can safely assume that it's going to be an online-only LCA. > > I looked in the LA Council minutes and the last council meeting that we have minutes for seems to be on the 12th of January 2022: > > https://linux.org.au/category/linux-australia/council-meetings/ > There don't seem to be any notes on LCA 2023 (in any form) in there. I have to assume, given the lack of minutes, that there have been no other Council meetings since then. > > So I'm wondering... > > Why so coy about the form that LCA 2023 will take? > > Regards, > > Paul Wayper > Hi Paul, You may make any observations you wish, but I haven?t said anything of the sort. We need to make sure all aspects of the event are in place before making announcements to give certainty to all those involved and all potential attendees, so as with any other year we will make sure this is all prepared prior to making the details public. We are aware the minutes are not yet up on the website. This is something our secretary is working on at the moment and the minutes will be up soon. We have met every fortnight since the beginning of the year, bar one, and have covered many discussion topics during this time. Regards, Joel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steven.ellis at gmail.com Mon Jun 13 21:52:44 2022 From: steven.ellis at gmail.com (Steven Ellis) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2022 23:52:44 +1200 Subject: [Linux-aus] LCA 2023 ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for the summation Paul. Some of us are beyond online / virtual events at this point, but I also know many who never intend on attending a physical conference ever again. I've been involved with hybrid events and they're even a bigger load than purely physical or virtual ones. LCA is an 18->24 month planning process, so I really hope something is going on elsewhere we don't know about. On Mon, Jun 13, 2022 at 11:15 PM Paul Wayper via linux-aus < linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > On 13/6/22 8:55 pm, Joel Addison via linux-aus wrote: > > Hi Simon, > > The Linux Australia Council has been discussing this over the past few months to determine what should happen next year. We have not got all the details sorted as yet, but we should have an announcement in the next few weeks. > > Just an observation, then: Linux Australia intends LCA 2023 to be an > online only conference. > > Let's assume that the LA Council makes an announcement by the end of > June. Given that the LA Council has not announced any request for > volunteers to organise a committee, it seems to me that the LA committee > will follow up the announcement about LCA 2023 with a request for > volunteers. That would take a couple of weeks at least. So from mid June > the LCA organising committee would then have six months, roughly, to find a > conference venue, dinner venues, keynotes, speakers, and caterers. That, > to me, seems... a lot of work in a short space of time. > > From about 2011 IIRC the lead time between a team forming and putting in a > bid to run LCA and that team actually putting on LCA was pushed from one > year to two. I think the reason given at the time by the LA Council was > that it had become too much work to put together an (then in-person) LCA in > less than an entire year. > > So unless the LA Council has had a bid process it has not publicly > announced and already chosen a team and that team already has several of > the above major pieces of an in-person LCA already organised... then I > think we can safely assume that it's going to be an online-only LCA. > > I looked in the LA Council minutes and the last council meeting that we > have minutes for seems to be on the 12th of January 2022: > > https://linux.org.au/category/linux-australia/council-meetings/ > > There don't seem to be any notes on LCA 2023 (in any form) in there. I > have to assume, given the lack of minutes, that there have been no other > Council meetings since then. > > So I'm wondering... > > Why so coy about the form that LCA 2023 will take? > > Regards, > > Paul Wayper > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dap at zepherin.com Tue Jun 14 12:57:17 2022 From: dap at zepherin.com (dap at zepherin.com) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 02:57:17 +0000 Subject: [Linux-aus] ***UNCHECKED*** internode/iinet/tpg ipv4 bogons in route Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-encrypted Size: 11 bytes Desc: PGP/MIME version identification URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: encrypted.asc Type: application/octet-stream Size: 25796 bytes Desc: OpenPGP encrypted message URL: From dap at zepherin.com Tue Jun 14 14:19:42 2022 From: dap at zepherin.com (dap at zepherin.com) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 04:19:42 +0000 Subject: [Linux-aus] internode/iinet/tpg ipv4 bogons in route In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Try again -- not sure why ProtonMail decided it had PGP keys for the mailing list. I currently have internode. For some unholy reason, my packets leave my place, and are routed thru a bogon: 10.20.21.212. Being paranoid, I assume this is doing deep packet inspection / recording for ASIO / NSA / ?? I have tried to suggest they fix their infrastructure so as to give the bogon a non-private address, but they demur. Anyone else out there with bogons in their routes? This is from?`mtr -4 www.apple.com` lust?(192.168.3.2) -> www.apple.com (23.63.20.216) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 2022-06-14T12:43:12+1000 Keys: ?Help ? Display mode ? Restart statistics ? Order of fields ? quit ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Packets? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Pings ?Host? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Loss% ? Snt ? Last ? Avg ?Best ?Wrst StDev ?1. gw3? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?0.0% ? ?46? ? 0.3?139.7? ?0.2?3453. 595.5 ?2. gw.xxxxxxx.com ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 0.0% ? ?45? ? 0.7?137.6? ?0.5?3350. 581.3 ?3. 10.20.21.212? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 4.4% ? ?45? ? 7.0?144.5? ?6.6?3248. 572.3 ?4. 60-240-241-214.static.tpgi.com.au ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 4.4% ? ?45? ? 7.7?140.1? ?7.1?3146. 551.5 ?5. 203-219-107-166.static.tpgi.com.au ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?2.2% ? ?45? ?12.2?182.1? ?7.2?3382. 600.9 ?6. a23-63-20-216.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com ? ?4.4% ? ?45? ? 7.3?114.3? ?6.6?2939. 505.9 Note that?`gw.xxxxxxx.com`?is a globally routable fixed IP address. Not sure why I am modest and will not disclose it, but folks seem shy about such details. It is the address assigned to my UDM Pro from a /29 assigned to me statically by internode. Sent with Proton Mail secure email. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: publickey - dap at zepherin.com - 0x2DD13951.asc Type: application/pgp-keys Size: 721 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 249 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From L.symons at live.com Tue Jun 14 14:27:04 2022 From: L.symons at live.com (Lucas Symons) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 04:27:04 +0000 Subject: [Linux-aus] internode/iinet/tpg ipv4 bogons in route In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you have a static /29 I'm assuming they wouldn't CgNat you so it's definitely unusual to have a private IP in your routes. Have they been able to explain what it's for? ________________________________ From: linux-aus on behalf of Damon Permezel via linux-aus Sent: Tuesday, 14 June 2022, 2:20 pm To: linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au Subject: Re: [Linux-aus] internode/iinet/tpg ipv4 bogons in route Try again -- not sure why ProtonMail decided it had PGP keys for the mailing list. I currently have internode. For some unholy reason, my packets leave my place, and are routed thru a bogon: 10.20.21.212. Being paranoid, I assume this is doing deep packet inspection / recording for ASIO / NSA / ?? I have tried to suggest they fix their infrastructure so as to give the bogon a non-private address, but they demur. Anyone else out there with bogons in their routes? This is from mtr -4 www.apple.com lust (192.168.3.2) -> www.apple.com (23.63.20.216) 2022-06-14T12:43:12+1000 Keys: Help Display mode Restart statistics Order of fields quit Packets Pings Host Loss% Snt Last Avg Best Wrst StDev 1. gw3 0.0% 46 0.3 139.7 0.2 3453. 595.5 2. gw.xxxxxxx.com 0.0% 45 0.7 137.6 0.5 3350. 581.3 3. 10.20.21.212 4.4% 45 7.0 144.5 6.6 3248. 572.3 4. 60-240-241-214.static.tpgi.com.au 4.4% 45 7.7 140.1 7.1 3146. 551.5 5. 203-219-107-166.static.tpgi.com.au 2.2% 45 12.2 182.1 7.2 3382. 600.9 6. a23-63-20-216.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com 4.4% 45 7.3 114.3 6.6 2939. 505.9 Note that gw.xxxxxxx.com is a globally routable fixed IP address. Not sure why I am modest and will not disclose it, but folks seem shy about such details. It is the address assigned to my UDM Pro from a /29 assigned to me statically by internode. Sent with Proton Mail secure email. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robk at ningaui.net Tue Jun 14 14:38:30 2022 From: robk at ningaui.net (Rob Kearey) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 14:38:30 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] internode/iinet/tpg ipv4 bogons in route In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is incredibly common practice, for all sorts of reasons. Rob K On Tue, Jun 14, 2022 at 2:20 PM Damon Permezel via linux-aus wrote: > > Try again -- not sure why ProtonMail decided it had PGP keys for the mailing list. > > > I currently have internode. For some unholy reason, my packets leave my place, and are routed thru a bogon: 10.20.21.212. Being paranoid, I assume this is doing deep packet inspection / recording for ASIO / NSA / ?? I have tried to suggest they fix their infrastructure so as to give the bogon a non-private address, but they demur. > > Anyone else out there with bogons in their routes? > > This is from mtr -4 www.apple.com > > lust (192.168.3.2) -> www.apple.com (23.63.20.216) 2022-06-14T12:43:12+1000 > Keys: Help Display mode Restart statistics Order of fields quit > Packets Pings > Host Loss% Snt Last Avg Best Wrst StDev > 1. gw3 0.0% 46 0.3 139.7 0.2 3453. 595.5 > 2. gw.xxxxxxx.com 0.0% 45 0.7 137.6 0.5 3350. 581.3 > 3. 10.20.21.212 4.4% 45 7.0 144.5 6.6 3248. 572.3 > 4. 60-240-241-214.static.tpgi.com.au 4.4% 45 7.7 140.1 7.1 3146. 551.5 > 5. 203-219-107-166.static.tpgi.com.au 2.2% 45 12.2 182.1 7.2 3382. 600.9 > 6. a23-63-20-216.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com 4.4% 45 7.3 114.3 6.6 2939. 505.9 > > Note that gw.xxxxxxx.com is a globally routable fixed IP address. Not sure why I am modest and will not disclose it, but folks seem shy about such details. It is the address assigned to my UDM Pro from a /29 assigned to me statically by internode. > > > > Sent with Proton Mail secure email. > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au From andrew at sericyb.com.au Tue Jun 14 14:41:21 2022 From: andrew at sericyb.com.au (Andrew Pam) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 14:41:21 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] internode/iinet/tpg ipv4 bogons in route In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7704c383-de44-03ff-e377-cc52c11cd057@sericyb.com.au> On 14/6/22 14:38, Rob Kearey via linux-aus wrote: > This is incredibly common practice, for all sorts of reasons. Yes, many ISPs use private addresses internally and they will show up as routing hops. Not at all unusual. Hope that helps, Andrew -- mailto:andrew at sericyb.com.au Andrew Pam https://sericyb.com.au/ Manager, Serious Cybernetics https://glasswings.com.au/ Partner, Glass Wings From paul-linuxaus at gear.email Tue Jun 14 14:50:56 2022 From: paul-linuxaus at gear.email (Paul Gear) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 14:50:56 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] internode/iinet/tpg ipv4 bogons in route In-Reply-To: <7704c383-de44-03ff-e377-cc52c11cd057@sericyb.com.au> References: <7704c383-de44-03ff-e377-cc52c11cd057@sericyb.com.au> Message-ID: <1e94e37a-733f-ac75-9920-addfb9e4c4ad@gear.email> On 14/6/22 14:41, Andrew Pam via linux-aus wrote: > On 14/6/22 14:38, Rob Kearey via linux-aus wrote: >> This is incredibly common practice, for all sorts of reasons. > > Yes, many ISPs use private addresses internally and they will show up > as routing hops.? Not at all unusual. Very normal; Internode use 10.0.0.0/8 on their PPPoE concentrators: # ip addr ls dev ppp0 16: ppp0: mtu 1492 qdisc pfifo_fast state UNKNOWN group default qlen 3 ??? link/ppp ??? inet 150.101.178.79 peer 10.20.26.119/32 scope global ppp0 ?????? valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever ??? inet6 fe80::1106:d625:b69f:eb2a/10 scope link ?????? valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever From michael at ralston.id.au Tue Jun 14 15:52:05 2022 From: michael at ralston.id.au (Michael Ralston) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 15:52:05 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] internode/iinet/tpg ipv4 bogons in route In-Reply-To: <1e94e37a-733f-ac75-9920-addfb9e4c4ad@gear.email> References: <7704c383-de44-03ff-e377-cc52c11cd057@sericyb.com.au> <1e94e37a-733f-ac75-9920-addfb9e4c4ad@gear.email> Message-ID: Yeah totally normal. I had a theory a while back that the only network devices truely in need of public IP address is servers and network borders. On Tue, 14 June 2022, 14:51 Paul Gear via linux-aus, < linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > On 14/6/22 14:41, Andrew Pam via linux-aus wrote: > > On 14/6/22 14:38, Rob Kearey via linux-aus wrote: > >> This is incredibly common practice, for all sorts of reasons. > > > > Yes, many ISPs use private addresses internally and they will show up > > as routing hops. Not at all unusual. > > > Very normal; Internode use 10.0.0.0/8 on their PPPoE concentrators: > > # ip addr ls dev ppp0 > 16: ppp0: mtu 1492 qdisc > pfifo_fast state UNKNOWN group default qlen 3 > link/ppp > inet 150.101.178.79 peer 10.20.26.119/32 scope global ppp0 > valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever > inet6 fe80::1106:d625:b69f:eb2a/10 scope link > valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever > > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dap at zepherin.com Tue Jun 14 20:11:18 2022 From: dap at zepherin.com (dap at zepherin.com) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 10:11:18 +0000 Subject: [Linux-aus] internode/iinet/tpg ipv4 bogons in route In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Here is the explanation from 2019: > The 10.20.x.x interestingly is a loopback address for the provider edge NBN / TPG network.It's not pingable, however it does appear in traceroutes.We have discussed this issue with networks to remove it, however it's not high on their agenda and it's not breaking anything, apart from causing angst among the network savvy customers. Sounds like exactly the thing they would say if they are intercepting all my traffic ... -;) Sent with Proton Mail secure email. ------- Original Message ------- On Tuesday, June 14th, 2022 at 14:27, Lucas Symons via linux-aus wrote: > If you have a static /29 I'm assuming they wouldn't CgNat you so it's definitely unusual to have a private IP in your routes.? > Have they been able to explain what it's for?? > > From: linux-aus on behalf of Damon Permezel via linux-aus > Sent: Tuesday, 14 June 2022, 2:20 pm > To: linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > Subject: Re: [Linux-aus] internode/iinet/tpg ipv4 bogons in route > > Try again -- not sure why ProtonMail decided it had PGP keys for the mailing list. > > > I currently have internode. For some unholy reason, my packets leave my place, and are routed thru a bogon: 10.20.21.212. Being paranoid, I assume this is doing deep packet inspection / recording for ASIO / NSA / ?? I have tried to suggest they fix their infrastructure so as to give the bogon a non-private address, but they demur. > > Anyone else out there with bogons in their routes? > > This is from?`mtr -4 www.apple.com` > > lust?(192.168.3.2) -> www.apple.com (23.63.20.216) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 2022-06-14T12:43:12+1000 > Keys: ?Help ? Display mode ? Restart statistics ? Order of fields ? quit > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Packets? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Pings > ?Host? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Loss% ? Snt ? Last ? Avg ?Best ?Wrst StDev > ?1. gw3? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?0.0% ? ?46? ? 0.3?139.7? ?0.2?3453. 595.5 > ?2. gw.xxxxxxx.com ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 0.0% ? ?45? ? 0.7?137.6? ?0.5?3350. 581.3 > ?3. 10.20.21.212? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 4.4% ? ?45? ? 7.0?144.5? ?6.6?3248. 572.3 > ?4. 60-240-241-214.static.tpgi.com.au ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 4.4% ? ?45? ? 7.7?140.1? ?7.1?3146. 551.5 > ?5. 203-219-107-166.static.tpgi.com.au ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?2.2% ? ?45? ?12.2?182.1? ?7.2?3382. 600.9 > ?6. a23-63-20-216.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com ? ?4.4% ? ?45? ? 7.3?114.3? ?6.6?2939. 505.9 > > > Note that?`gw.xxxxxxx.com`?is a globally routable fixed IP address. Not sure why I am modest and will not disclose it, but folks seem shy about such details. It is the address assigned to my UDM Pro from a /29 assigned to me statically by internode. > > > > Sent with Proton Mail secure email. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: publickey - dap at zepherin.com - 0x2DD13951.asc Type: application/pgp-keys Size: 721 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 249 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From dap at zepherin.com Tue Jun 14 20:15:48 2022 From: dap at zepherin.com (dap at zepherin.com) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 10:15:48 +0000 Subject: [Linux-aus] internode/iinet/tpg ipv4 bogons in route In-Reply-To: <1e94e37a-733f-ac75-9920-addfb9e4c4ad@gear.email> References: <7704c383-de44-03ff-e377-cc52c11cd057@sericyb.com.au> <1e94e37a-733f-ac75-9920-addfb9e4c4ad@gear.email> Message-ID: That makes sense. With a point-to-point link, you would not want to consume globally routable addresses. Sent with Proton Mail secure email. ------- Original Message ------- On Tuesday, June 14th, 2022 at 14:50, Paul Gear via linux-aus wrote: > On 14/6/22 14:41, Andrew Pam via linux-aus wrote: > > > On 14/6/22 14:38, Rob Kearey via linux-aus wrote: > > > > > This is incredibly common practice, for all sorts of reasons. > > > > Yes, many ISPs use private addresses internally and they will show up > > as routing hops. Not at all unusual. > > > > Very normal; Internode use 10.0.0.0/8 on their PPPoE concentrators: > > # ip addr ls dev ppp0 > 16: ppp0: mtu 1492 qdisc > > pfifo_fast state UNKNOWN group default qlen 3 > link/ppp > inet 150.101.178.79 peer 10.20.26.119/32 scope global ppp0 > valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever > inet6 fe80::1106:d625:b69f:eb2a/10 scope link > valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever > > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: publickey - dap at zepherin.com - 0x2DD13951.asc Type: application/pgp-keys Size: 721 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 249 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From tim.w.connors at gmail.com Wed Jun 15 11:10:30 2022 From: tim.w.connors at gmail.com (Tim Connors) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2022 11:10:30 +1000 (AEST) Subject: [Linux-aus] internode/iinet/tpg ipv4 bogons in route In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50b73c2c-2d70-41cb-13c8-d56a9dd1b569@gmail.com> On Tue, 14 Jun 2022, Damon Permezel via linux-aus wrote: > > Here is the explanation from 2019: > > > The 10.20.x.x interestingly is a loopback address for the provider > > edge NBN / TPG network.It's not pingable, however it does appear in > > traceroutes.We have discussed this issue with networks to remove it, > > however it's not high on their agenda and it's not breaking anything, > > apart from causing angst among the network savvy customers. > > Sounds like exactly the thing they would say if they are intercepting > all my traffic ... -;) I don't even understand the angst - maybe I'm not network savvy enough. Telecom providers have internal infrastructure required to route your traffic. What IP addresses they are assigned is completely irrelevant to you, so long as the packets can be routed to your required destination. Since your required destination isn't a private IP address, it's completely legitimate for hops along the way to be in the private ranges. It's not like it's going to break ICMP or anything. It's not like a vendor of ours who ship thousands of devices with unconfigurable IPs in a private range, which happens to clash with already existing mail servers in that same range, which we need to be able to communicate with. -- Tim Connors From brian at linuxpenguins.xyz Wed Jun 15 14:34:12 2022 From: brian at linuxpenguins.xyz (Brian May) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2022 14:34:12 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] internode/iinet/tpg ipv4 bogons in route In-Reply-To: <50b73c2c-2d70-41cb-13c8-d56a9dd1b569@gmail.com> References: <50b73c2c-2d70-41cb-13c8-d56a9dd1b569@gmail.com> Message-ID: <87fsk6r1dn.fsf@canidae.wired.pri> Tim Connors via linux-aus writes: > I don't even understand the angst - maybe I'm not network savvy > enough. I imagine if you block incoming packets from private IP address ranges - as typically is a good idea - especially if you use that address range in your network - then you won't see the details from this hop in traceroute. And traceroute might be a bit slower as a result. Not sure this actually matters that much. -- Brian May https://linuxpenguins.xyz/brian/ From dap at zepherin.com Wed Jun 15 14:35:12 2022 From: dap at zepherin.com (dap at zepherin.com) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2022 04:35:12 +0000 Subject: [Linux-aus] internode/iinet/tpg ipv4 bogons in route In-Reply-To: <50b73c2c-2d70-41cb-13c8-d56a9dd1b569@gmail.com> References: <50b73c2c-2d70-41cb-13c8-d56a9dd1b569@gmail.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: publicKey - dap at zepherin.com - 2dd13951.asc Type: application/pgp-keys Size: 697 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 249 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From paul-linuxaus at gear.email Wed Jun 15 15:10:45 2022 From: paul-linuxaus at gear.email (Paul Gear) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2022 15:10:45 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] internode/iinet/tpg ipv4 bogons in route In-Reply-To: References: <50b73c2c-2d70-41cb-13c8-d56a9dd1b569@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2e34388b-8f8a-c69b-6d36-de799959db34@gear.email> The existence of that node on the path should not break mtr - it should continue trying increased TTLs until it gets to the end node. Are you sure you're not blocking ping at your firewall? On 15/6/22 14:35, Damon Permezel via linux-aus wrote: > > Breaks mtr. > Im trying to diagnose some issues and the other party insists on mtr > working from both sides. > Inbound to me the 10.20.21.212 drops all pings and mtr goes no further. > The ping is not addressed to 10.20.21.212. It should elicit a ttl > expired icmp response. > > Thats the main reason this got my attention again. From dap at zepherin.com Wed Jun 15 23:33:19 2022 From: dap at zepherin.com (dap at zepherin.com) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2022 13:33:19 +0000 Subject: [Linux-aus] internode/iinet/tpg ipv4 bogons in route In-Reply-To: <2e34388b-8f8a-c69b-6d36-de799959db34@gear.email> References: <50b73c2c-2d70-41cb-13c8-d56a9dd1b569@gmail.com> <2e34388b-8f8a-c69b-6d36-de799959db34@gear.email> Message-ID: I am sure I'm not blocking the ping at my (UDM Pro) firewall, but the Fritz!box also has a firewall. Because I see the weird 10.20.21.212 hop outbound, I assumed I would see it on inbound, and thus it appeared to be the next hop to fix. However, no small amount of dorking about with the Fritz!Box has resulted in me figuring out that I need to designate the UDM as "exposed host". I know I should have more faith in the Unifi firewall, and I should have been happy to put the UDM into the DMZ, but I always felt marginally less insecure leaving it so that the mystical, inaccessible Fritz!box firewall was also preventing rogue SYNs from molesting my sockets. Once I enable "Exposed Host" on the Fritz, pings work, and "mtr" is able to reveal to me that there is no 10.20.21.212 hop inbound. Just outbound. The bogon hop still annoys me -- perhaps I need to get a life. Sent with Proton Mail secure email. ------- Original Message ------- On Wednesday, June 15th, 2022 at 15:10, Paul Gear via linux-aus wrote: > The existence of that node on the path should not break mtr - it should > continue trying increased TTLs until it gets to the end node. > > Are you sure you're not blocking ping at your firewall? > > On 15/6/22 14:35, Damon Permezel via linux-aus wrote: > > > Breaks mtr. > > Im trying to diagnose some issues and the other party insists on mtr > > working from both sides. > > Inbound to me the 10.20.21.212 drops all pings and mtr goes no further. > > The ping is not addressed to 10.20.21.212. It should elicit a ttl > > expired icmp response. > > > > Thats the main reason this got my attention again. > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: publickey - dap at zepherin.com - 0x2DD13951.asc Type: application/pgp-keys Size: 721 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 249 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From noel.butler at ausics.net Thu Jun 16 06:48:16 2022 From: noel.butler at ausics.net (Noel Butler) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2022 06:48:16 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] internode/iinet/tpg ipv4 bogons in route In-Reply-To: References: <50b73c2c-2d70-41cb-13c8-d56a9dd1b569@gmail.com> <2e34388b-8f8a-c69b-6d36-de799959db34@gear.email> Message-ID: On 15/06/2022 23:33, Damon Permezel via linux-aus wrote: > Once I enable "Exposed Host" on the Fritz, pings work, and "mtr" is > able to reveal to me that there is no 10.20.21.212 hop inbound. Just > outbound. WTF is this thread even here.. ISP's have been doing this for 30, yes THIRTY years, long before CGNAT and mobile. is this your first week into networking... We one tried masking it with a local DNS name to match, but F M D, people cried sooky about that too even though it was in middle of internal routng, actually, used by big T on its LNS's LAC's and so on, some show up as * * * on some ISP's, some show them on others. As others have said, RFC1918 addresses on the carrier side will not ever affect you on your end, if it did, do you think we'd use it in the first place, let alone still after 30 years. -- Regards, Noel Butler This Email, including attachments, may contain legally privileged information, therefore at all times remains confidential and subject to copyright protected under international law. You may not disseminate this message without the authors express written authority to do so. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender then delete all copies of this message including attachments immediately. Confidentiality, copyright, and legal privilege are not waived or lost by reason of the mistaken delivery of this message. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul-linuxaus at gear.email Thu Jun 16 07:04:48 2022 From: paul-linuxaus at gear.email (Paul Gear) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2022 07:04:48 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] internode/iinet/tpg ipv4 bogons in route In-Reply-To: References: <50b73c2c-2d70-41cb-13c8-d56a9dd1b569@gmail.com> <2e34388b-8f8a-c69b-6d36-de799959db34@gear.email> Message-ID: <430a37dc-584e-ca68-33b6-0fa79188f419@gear.email> It's also very common for a traceroute not to match in both directions, because the ICMP time exceeded messages come from the address of the interface facing the source IP, and a router will usually have different IP addresses on multiple interfaces.? (The data can also take a completely different path, often depending on economic arrangements between the parties involved.) For example, here are some of the hops between my router and route-views.routeviews.org (in Oregon).? It looks like TPG-iiNet-Internode peers with Hurricane Electric in San Jose, and it traverses the same ISP in both directions, but look at the addresses on the border between those two networks. Outbound: ... ? 4.|-- adl-ts3-2600-106.tpgi.com.au (203.29.135.106)?????????????? 0.0%??? 10?? 18.2? 18.4? 18.0 18.9?? 0.3 ? 5.|-- syd-apt-ros-int1-eth8-3.tpgi.com.au (203.29.134.67)???????? 0.0%??? 10?? 19.8? 21.4? 18.4? 25.5?? 2.6 ? 6.|-- 100gigabitethernet13-1.core1.sjc1.he.net (216.218.139.233)? 0.0%??? 10? 172.6 172.3 171.7 173.4?? 0.5 ? 7.|-- 100ge1-1.core1.sjc2.he.net (184.105.65.114)???????????????? 0.0%??? 10? 173.6 172.6 172.1 173.6?? 0.5 ... Inbound (looks different because route-views runs Cisco IOS-XE and it has traceroute, not mtr): ... ?13 100ge1-2.core1.pao1.he.net (184.104.195.173) [AS 6939] 16 msec ??? 100ge10-1.core1.sjc1.he.net (184.105.80.193) [AS 6939] 16 msec 17 msec ?14 tpg-internet-pty-ltd.100gigabitethernet11-1.core1.sjc1.he.net (216.218.139.234) [AS 6939] 178 msec 175 msec ??? 100ge10-1.core1.sjc1.he.net (184.105.80.193) [AS 6939] 16 msec ?15 tpg-internet-pty-ltd.100gigabitethernet11-1.core1.sjc1.he.net (216.218.139.234) [AS 6939] 175 msec 175 msec 176 msec ?16 syd-sot-ken-csw1-ge-2-23.tpgi.com.au (203.29.135.109) [AS 7545] [MPLS: Label 24446 Exp 0] 184 msec ??? syd-apt-ros-crt4-be-100.tpgi.com.au (203.29.134.44) [AS 7545] 172 msec ??? syd-sot-ken-csw1-ge-2-23.tpgi.com.au (203.29.135.109) [AS 7545] [MPLS: Label 24446 Exp 0] 184 msec ... 216.218.139.233 and 216.218.139.234 are probably the two ends of TPG's point-to-point connection to Hurricane Electric which is probably the network 216.218.139.232/30, but we only see one of the IPs in each direction.? (The /30 is just a guess, but it's not a /31, because they must start on the even-numbered address, and I get timeouts when pinging 216.218.139.232 and 216.218.139.235, so it seems a reasonable guess.) Regards, Paul On 15/6/22 23:33, dap at zepherin.com wrote: > I am sure I'm not blocking the ping at my (UDM Pro) firewall, but the Fritz!box also has a firewall. > > Because I see the weird 10.20.21.212 hop outbound, I assumed I would see it on inbound, and thus it appeared to be the next hop to fix. > However, no small amount of dorking about with the Fritz!Box has resulted in me figuring out that I need to designate the UDM as "exposed host". > > I know I should have more faith in the Unifi firewall, and I should have been happy to put the UDM into the DMZ, but I always felt marginally less insecure leaving it so that the mystical, inaccessible Fritz!box firewall was also preventing rogue SYNs from molesting my sockets. > > Once I enable "Exposed Host" on the Fritz, pings work, and "mtr" is able to reveal to me that there is no 10.20.21.212 hop inbound. Just outbound. > > The bogon hop still annoys me -- perhaps I need to get a life. > > > Sent with Proton Mail secure email. > ------- Original Message ------- > On Wednesday, June 15th, 2022 at 15:10, Paul Gear via linux-aus wrote: > > >> The existence of that node on the path should not break mtr - it should >> continue trying increased TTLs until it gets to the end node. >> >> Are you sure you're not blocking ping at your firewall? >> >> On 15/6/22 14:35, Damon Permezel via linux-aus wrote: >> >>> Breaks mtr. >>> Im trying to diagnose some issues and the other party insists on mtr >>> working from both sides. >>> Inbound to me the 10.20.21.212 drops all pings and mtr goes no further. >>> The ping is not addressed to 10.20.21.212. It should elicit a ttl >>> expired icmp response. >>> From tmciolek at gmail.com Thu Jun 16 07:33:26 2022 From: tmciolek at gmail.com (TMC) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2022 07:33:26 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] internode/iinet/tpg ipv4 bogons in route In-Reply-To: References: <50b73c2c-2d70-41cb-13c8-d56a9dd1b569@gmail.com> <2e34388b-8f8a-c69b-6d36-de799959db34@gear.email> Message-ID: Hi All have you considered that routers might have different IP addresses on "external facing" and "internal facing" interfaces, hence the discrepancies between outbound and inlound traceroute? I would be curious if its the same number of hops each way Tomasz On Wed, 15 Jun 2022 at 23:34, Damon Permezel via linux-aus < linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > I am sure I'm not blocking the ping at my (UDM Pro) firewall, but the > Fritz!box also has a firewall. > > Because I see the weird 10.20.21.212 hop outbound, I assumed I would see > it on inbound, and thus it appeared to be the next hop to fix. > However, no small amount of dorking about with the Fritz!Box has resulted > in me figuring out that I need to designate the UDM as "exposed host". > > I know I should have more faith in the Unifi firewall, and I should have > been happy to put the UDM into the DMZ, but I always felt marginally less > insecure leaving it so that the mystical, inaccessible Fritz!box firewall > was also preventing rogue SYNs from molesting my sockets. > > Once I enable "Exposed Host" on the Fritz, pings work, and "mtr" is able > to reveal to me that there is no 10.20.21.212 hop inbound. Just outbound. > > The bogon hop still annoys me -- perhaps I need to get a life. > > > Sent with Proton Mail secure email. > ------- Original Message ------- > On Wednesday, June 15th, 2022 at 15:10, Paul Gear via linux-aus < > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > > > > The existence of that node on the path should not break mtr - it should > > continue trying increased TTLs until it gets to the end node. > > > > > Are you sure you're not blocking ping at your firewall? > > > > > On 15/6/22 14:35, Damon Permezel via linux-aus wrote: > > > > > > Breaks mtr. > > > Im trying to diagnose some issues and the other party insists on mtr > > > working from both sides. > > > Inbound to me the 10.20.21.212 drops all pings and mtr goes no further. > > > The ping is not addressed to 10.20.21.212. It should elicit a ttl > > > expired icmp response. > > > > > > > Thats the main reason this got my attention again. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > linux-aus mailing list > > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -- -- GPG key fingerprint: 07DF B95B DB58 57B6 9656 682E 830A D092 288E F017 GPG public key available on pgp(dot)net key server -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From russell at coker.com.au Tue Jun 28 12:15:26 2022 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 12:15:26 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Ubuntu 20.04 resume time problem Message-ID: <2709207.mvXUDI8C0e@liv> I have a laptop that is dual boot Ubuntu 20.04 and Windows. I've configured it for "RTC in local TZ" with timedatectl so it can have the same time as Windows (I'm aware that I could change Windows via regedit to use UTC for the hwclock but I'm trying to work out the best option for a corporate rollout). The problem is that I resume from suspend and the system immediately treats the RTC as if it was in UTC thus being out by 10 hours (time zone +1000). How does Ubuntu get the time from the RTC on resume? Any clues as to where to look would be really appreciated. I've done Google searches and found nothing helpful. Even if you just know which program does it that would help a lot, I could read the source. Before someone says "oh what about the time change at the start/end of DST", for a laptop it's not a big deal as it will probably be in sleep mode then. As timedatectl supports this feature I think it's not unreasonable to expect it to work. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From l.symons at live.com Tue Jun 28 12:23:54 2022 From: l.symons at live.com (Lucas Symons) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 02:23:54 +0000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Ubuntu 20.04 resume time problem In-Reply-To: <2709207.mvXUDI8C0e@liv> References: <2709207.mvXUDI8C0e@liv> Message-ID: I would assume NTP will kick in and check to see if everything is synced. I believe it is configured automatically out of the box. Timedatectl is what controls this it's provided by systemd. The man pages have some interesting notes about using "set-local-rtc" https://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/focal/man1/timedatectl.1.html ________________________________ From: linux-aus on behalf of Russell Coker via linux-aus Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2022 12:15:26 PM To: Linux Australia Subject: [Linux-aus] Ubuntu 20.04 resume time problem I have a laptop that is dual boot Ubuntu 20.04 and Windows. I've configured it for "RTC in local TZ" with timedatectl so it can have the same time as Windows (I'm aware that I could change Windows via regedit to use UTC for the hwclock but I'm trying to work out the best option for a corporate rollout). The problem is that I resume from suspend and the system immediately treats the RTC as if it was in UTC thus being out by 10 hours (time zone +1000). How does Ubuntu get the time from the RTC on resume? Any clues as to where to look would be really appreciated. I've done Google searches and found nothing helpful. Even if you just know which program does it that would help a lot, I could read the source. Before someone says "oh what about the time change at the start/end of DST", for a laptop it's not a big deal as it will probably be in sleep mode then. As timedatectl supports this feature I think it's not unreasonable to expect it to work. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ _______________________________________________ linux-aus mailing list linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john at huiac.com Tue Jun 28 16:30:25 2022 From: john at huiac.com (John Pearson) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 16:30:25 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Ubuntu 20.04 resume time problem In-Reply-To: <2709207.mvXUDI8C0e@liv> References: <2709207.mvXUDI8C0e@liv> Message-ID: <0AB40F66-6BA3-4EFB-9054-62830A26EA53@huiac.com> Haven't been in this position often or for some time, but if the hw clock is set to localtime on a dualboot system then things might get strange when booting an os for the first time after dst starts/ends; one or both will probably feel responsible for adjusting the clock, and neither knows if it's already been done. NTP should fix it eventually, but until it does TLS and kerberos may have a hard time. John. On June 28, 2022 12:15:26 PM GMT+10:00, Russell Coker via linux-aus wrote: >I have a laptop that is dual boot Ubuntu 20.04 and Windows. I've configured it >for "RTC in local TZ" with timedatectl so it can have the same time as Windows >(I'm aware that I could change Windows via regedit to use UTC for the hwclock >but I'm trying to work out the best option for a corporate rollout). The >problem is that I resume from suspend and the system immediately treats the >RTC as if it was in UTC thus being out by 10 hours (time zone +1000). > >How does Ubuntu get the time from the RTC on resume? Any clues as to where to >look would be really appreciated. I've done Google searches and found nothing >helpful. Even if you just know which program does it that would help a lot, I >could read the source. > >Before someone says "oh what about the time change at the start/end of DST", >for a laptop it's not a big deal as it will probably be in sleep mode then. As >timedatectl supports this feature I think it's not unreasonable to expect it >to work. > >-- >My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ >My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ > > > >_______________________________________________ >linux-aus mailing list >linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au >http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > >To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to >linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From neonsignal-linux at meme.net.au Tue Jun 28 20:50:44 2022 From: neonsignal-linux at meme.net.au (Glenn McIntosh) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 20:50:44 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Ubuntu 20.04 resume time problem In-Reply-To: <2709207.mvXUDI8C0e@liv> References: <2709207.mvXUDI8C0e@liv> Message-ID: On 28/6/22 12:15, Russell Coker via linux-aus wrote: > I've configured it > for "RTC in local TZ" with timedatectl so it can have the same time as Windows > The problem is that I resume from suspend and the system immediately treats the > RTC as if it was in UTC thus being out by 10 hours (time zone +1000). > How does Ubuntu get the time from the RTC on resume? Wasn't able to replicate on Debian, but from what I understand the system clock can get set from RTC in two places 1) if CONFIG_RTC_HCTOSYS is enabled in the kernel, then the RTC will be read on boot when the RTC driver is initialized; I think it is assumed the RTC is in UTC, as the kernel cannot know the timezone 2) systemd will later set the clock (using /etc/adjtime to determine if it is UTC or local time) I imagine if the systemd one doesn't trigger on resume for some reason, you would get the symptoms you are experiencing. Glenn -- pgp: 833A 67F6 1966 EF5F 7AF1 DFF6 75B7 5621 6D65 6D65 From svetlana.tkachenko at fastmail.com Tue Jun 28 12:18:23 2022 From: svetlana.tkachenko at fastmail.com (Svetlana Tkachenko) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 12:18:23 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Ubuntu 20.04 resume time problem In-Reply-To: <2709207.mvXUDI8C0e@liv> References: <2709207.mvXUDI8C0e@liv> Message-ID: <6efa4f9d-2b21-43cd-8a7a-641a2d8fb18a@www.fastmail.com> Not an expert here, just wondering why isn't using ntp a viable option? From neilb at suse.de Tue Jun 28 13:30:57 2022 From: neilb at suse.de (NeilBrown) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 13:30:57 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Ubuntu 20.04 resume time problem In-Reply-To: <2709207.mvXUDI8C0e@liv> References: <2709207.mvXUDI8C0e@liv> Message-ID: <165638705732.15378.2867537305908632373@noble.neil.brown.name> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022, Russell Coker wrote: > I have a laptop that is dual boot Ubuntu 20.04 and Windows. I've configured it > for "RTC in local TZ" with timedatectl so it can have the same time as Windows > (I'm aware that I could change Windows via regedit to use UTC for the hwclock > but I'm trying to work out the best option for a corporate rollout). The > problem is that I resume from suspend and the system immediately treats the > RTC as if it was in UTC thus being out by 10 hours (time zone +1000). > > How does Ubuntu get the time from the RTC on resume? Any clues as to where to > look would be really appreciated. I've done Google searches and found nothing > helpful. Even if you just know which program does it that would help a lot, I > could read the source. It isn't up to Ubuntu - the Linux kernel does (or should do) everything needed. Providing the kernel is built with CONFIG_PM_SLEEP and CONFIG_RTC_HCTOSYS_DEVICE, and providing you have RTC hardware with a suitable driver, then on suspend rtc_suspend() in drivers/rtc/class.c will take note of the value stored in the rtc, and on resume rtc_resume() will check what the difference was and update the clock. cat /sys/class/rtc/rtc0/hctosys should show "1" if everythings is configured properly. In that case it should "just work". NeilBrown > > Before someone says "oh what about the time change at the start/end of DST", > for a laptop it's not a big deal as it will probably be in sleep mode then. As > timedatectl supports this feature I think it's not unreasonable to expect it > to work. > > -- > My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ > My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au >