From russell at coker.com.au Sat Jul 2 01:36:48 2022 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2022 01:36:48 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Flounder FOSS phones meeting in 11.5 hours Message-ID: <13120650.uLZWGnKmhe@liv> https://flounder.linux.org.au/events/flounder-july-2022/ The July meeting will be 1PM Melbourne time (03:00 UTC) on the 2nd of July. The above URL has the details. It will be about FOSS phones and what has to be done to make regular Linux software work on them with the Librem 5 as a case study and demonstration. Hopefully a demonstration of a PinePhone too. https://b.coker.com.au/ No need to register, just visit the above URL at the appointed time to join the meeting. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From russell at coker.com.au Sat Jul 2 11:54:50 2022 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2022 11:54:50 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] LUV needs volunteers Message-ID: <8197059.NyiUUSuA9g@liv> Currently no-one is reading the LUV president email. Email about the expiry of luv.asn.au have been going to the president mailbox since April and now the domain is suspended. I'm CCing this email to the Linux Australia list because probably a lot of LUV members won't get this message through the LUV list due to the expired domain. The LUV committee list receives almost no email, the committee seems entirely inactive in aggregate. Presumably Andrew Pam will renew the domain (as he did last year) after my monitoring system detected that the domain was suspended (as it did last year) due to President email not being read and it not being renewed in time. I'm putting this in a public email because I don't want to be falsely accused of being responsible for this debacle as I was last year. If LUV is going to run effectively it needs someone to volunteer to read the president email. It gets an average of 2-3 spam messages per day which is probably not much compared to the spam that slips through most of our spam filters. Most of the LUV president spam comes from the web contact form. The contact page could be changed to not have a form for submitting a message and instead refer to a Matrix address or something, it's easy to change. While I've generally given up on all LUV sysadmin tasks than the minimum needed to keep things running I would be happy to change the contact page to something that will get a response for people who want information (IE anything other than going to a mailbox that hasn't been read since early September 2021). Finally one thing that should be considered is moving the LUV mailing lists to the Linux Australia server. The latest version of Mailman is a major pain to run and the older version is deprecated. It doesn't seem likely that anyone will volunteer to give the LUV mailing lists the attention that's needed to get them running properly and the LA lists are maintained properly. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From andrew at sericyb.com.au Sat Jul 2 14:04:04 2022 From: andrew at sericyb.com.au (Andrew Pam) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 14:04:04 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] LUV needs volunteers In-Reply-To: References: <8197059.NyiUUSuA9g@liv> Message-ID: On 2/7/22 13:09, Yuchen Pei via luv-main wrote: > Silly question: is the president email supposed to be read by the president? If so is this a call for someone to volunteer to be the president? Yes it is! We currently have a vice-president (acting president) and a treasurer. A volunteer for president would be most welcome! Cheers, Andrew -- mailto:andrew at sericyb.com.au Andrew Pam https://sericyb.com.au/ Manager, Serious Cybernetics https://glasswings.com.au/ Partner, Glass Wings From timwhite88 at gmail.com Sat Jul 2 14:56:51 2022 From: timwhite88 at gmail.com (Tim) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 12:56:51 +0800 Subject: [Linux-aus] LUV needs volunteers In-Reply-To: <8197059.NyiUUSuA9g@liv> References: <8197059.NyiUUSuA9g@liv> Message-ID: I'm happy to offer the same 'service' that I offer PLUG, regarding domain registrations to any Australian Linux/Unix user group. I'll register the domain through my business wholesale account, and that way it's always automatically renewed and paid and I just invoice the LUG the cost of the domain (rounded up to the nearest dollar, so $10, so I can tell the ATO I am /trying/ to make a profit). Many years ago we had this recurring issue with PLUG domains expiring due to there not being a PLUG credit card to have automatic renewals setup on, and just having an individual put their card on the line was a little more than people wanted. At one point we used prepaid cards, but they expire and also people forget to topup the funds. As long as the LUG eventually pays the invoice, I'm not concerned, and I can pester them once a month until it's paid. For many years I just donated the cost of PLUG's domain instead of bothering with invoicing, but I no longer make money with my business, it's just there to give non-profits access to cheap domains and webhosting. Who am I to offer this? Many many many moons ago I was the PLUG president, technically still am a PLUG system admin, and now my involvement is mostly just lurking as having a family doesn't leave as much free time (and I'm rural to Perth). Regards Tim On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 at 09:55, Russell Coker via linux-aus < linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > Currently no-one is reading the LUV president email. Email about the > expiry > of luv.asn.au have been going to the president mailbox since April and > now the > domain is suspended. I'm CCing this email to the Linux Australia list > because > probably a lot of LUV members won't get this message through the LUV list > due > to the expired domain. > > The LUV committee list receives almost no email, the committee seems > entirely > inactive in aggregate. Presumably Andrew Pam will renew the domain (as he > did > last year) after my monitoring system detected that the domain was > suspended > (as it did last year) due to President email not being read and it not > being > renewed in time. I'm putting this in a public email because I don't want > to > be falsely accused of being responsible for this debacle as I was last > year. > > If LUV is going to run effectively it needs someone to volunteer to read > the > president email. It gets an average of 2-3 spam messages per day which is > probably not much compared to the spam that slips through most of our spam > filters. > > Most of the LUV president spam comes from the web contact form. The > contact > page could be changed to not have a form for submitting a message and > instead > refer to a Matrix address or something, it's easy to change. While I've > generally given up on all LUV sysadmin tasks than the minimum needed to > keep > things running I would be happy to change the contact page to something > that > will get a response for people who want information (IE anything other > than > going to a mailbox that hasn't been read since early September 2021). > > Finally one thing that should be considered is moving the LUV mailing > lists to > the Linux Australia server. The latest version of Mailman is a major pain > to > run and the older version is deprecated. It doesn't seem likely that > anyone > will volunteer to give the LUV mailing lists the attention that's needed > to > get them running properly and the LA lists are maintained properly. > > -- > My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ > My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jwoithe at just42.net Sat Jul 2 18:48:13 2022 From: jwoithe at just42.net (Jonathan Woithe) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 18:18:13 +0930 Subject: [Linux-aus] LUV needs volunteers In-Reply-To: References: <8197059.NyiUUSuA9g@liv> Message-ID: On Sat, Jul 02, 2022 at 12:56:51PM +0800, Tim via linux-aus wrote: > I'm happy to offer the same 'service' that I offer PLUG, regarding domain > registrations to any Australian Linux/Unix user group. I'll register the > domain through my business wholesale account, and that way it's always > automatically renewed and paid and I just invoice the LUG the cost of the > domain (rounded up to the nearest dollar, so $10 ... Linux Australia (LA) is also happy to handle domain registration and renewal for LUGs and other similar groups. We already do this for TasLUG and SLUG (I think). LA does not charge LUGs for the domains that it manages on their behalf - it's part of the service we offer to the community. If the relevant people are interested in pursuing this for LUV please contact me or anyone else on the LA council, and we'll make it happen. Regards jonathan From russell at coker.com.au Sat Jul 2 21:10:28 2022 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2022 21:10:28 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] LUV needs volunteers In-Reply-To: <87ilofq0vq.fsf@ypei.me> References: <8197059.NyiUUSuA9g@liv> <87ilofq0vq.fsf@ypei.me> Message-ID: <12009197.O9o76ZdvQC@xev> On Saturday, 2 July 2022 20:12:25 AEST Yuchen Pei wrote: > On Sat 2022-07-02 11:54:50 +1000, Russell Coker via luv-main wrote: > > Finally one thing that should be considered is moving the LUV mailing > > lists to the Linux Australia server. The latest version of Mailman is a > > major pain to run and the older version is deprecated. > > I don't quite get this part. LUV list server seems to be using > mailman3, whereas mailman2 is still widely used, including the Linux > Australia list server[1]. By the older version is deprecated do you > mean that the LUV server cannot *revert* back to mailman2? > > [1] https://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo It probably can, but it's a pain and no-one is volunteering to do it. https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=mailman But if you did it then you would have to support it, Mailman version 2.x is no longer in Debian. At this time someone might suggest using a distribution other than Debian which still supports Mailman 2.x, but that makes supporting all the other stuff more difficult or requires a second VM. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From hi at ypei.me Sat Jul 2 13:09:58 2022 From: hi at ypei.me (Yuchen Pei) Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2022 13:09:58 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] LUV needs volunteers In-Reply-To: <8197059.NyiUUSuA9g@liv> References: <8197059.NyiUUSuA9g@liv> Message-ID: On 2 July 2022 11:54:50 GMT+10:00, Russell Coker via luv-main wrote: >Currently no-one is reading the LUV president email. Email about the expiry >of luv.asn.au have been going to the president mailbox since April and now the >domain is suspended. I'm CCing this email to the Linux Australia list because >probably a lot of LUV members won't get this message through the LUV list due >to the expired domain. > >The LUV committee list receives almost no email, the committee seems entirely >inactive in aggregate. Presumably Andrew Pam will renew the domain (as he did >last year) after my monitoring system detected that the domain was suspended >(as it did last year) due to President email not being read and it not being >renewed in time. I'm putting this in a public email because I don't want to >be falsely accused of being responsible for this debacle as I was last year. > >If LUV is going to run effectively it needs someone to volunteer to read the >president email. Silly question: is the president email supposed to be read by the president? If so is this a call for someone to volunteer to be the president? -- Best, Yuchen Sent from a mobile device. Please excuse my brevity, typos and lack of pgp. From hi at ypei.me Sat Jul 2 20:12:25 2022 From: hi at ypei.me (Yuchen Pei) Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2022 20:12:25 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] LUV needs volunteers In-Reply-To: <8197059.NyiUUSuA9g@liv> (Russell Coker via luv-main's message of "Sat, 02 Jul 2022 11:54:50 +1000") References: <8197059.NyiUUSuA9g@liv> Message-ID: <87ilofq0vq.fsf@ypei.me> On Sat 2022-07-02 11:54:50 +1000, Russell Coker via luv-main wrote: > > Finally one thing that should be considered is moving the LUV mailing lists to > the Linux Australia server. The latest version of Mailman is a major pain to > run and the older version is deprecated. I don't quite get this part. LUV list server seems to be using mailman3, whereas mailman2 is still widely used, including the Linux Australia list server[1]. By the older version is deprecated do you mean that the LUV server cannot *revert* back to mailman2? [1] https://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo Best, Yuchen -- PGP Key: 47F9 D050 1E11 8879 9040 4941 2126 7E93 EF86 DFD0 From hi at ypei.me Sat Jul 2 20:28:36 2022 From: hi at ypei.me (Yuchen Pei) Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2022 20:28:36 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Flounder FOSS phones meeting in 11.5 hours In-Reply-To: <13120650.uLZWGnKmhe@liv> (Russell Coker via luv-main's message of "Sat, 02 Jul 2022 01:36:48 +1000") References: <13120650.uLZWGnKmhe@liv> Message-ID: <877d4vq04r.fsf@ypei.me> On Sat 2022-07-02 01:36:48 +1000, Russell Coker via luv-main wrote: > https://flounder.linux.org.au/events/flounder-july-2022/ > > The July meeting will be 1PM Melbourne time (03:00 UTC) on the 2nd of July. > The above URL has the details. > > It will be about FOSS phones and what has to be done to make regular Linux > software work on them with the Librem 5 as a case study and demonstration. > Hopefully a demonstration of a PinePhone too. Relevant to the topic, the h-node project[1] aims at the construction of a hardware database in order to identify what devices work with a fully free operating system. It recently added replicant as a supported distro. If you have a phone that can run replicant, PureOS or any fully free systems, please consider adding the phone to the database: https://h-node.org/notebooks/catalogue/en [1] https://h-node.org/ Disclosure: I'm the (sys)admin of the project. > > https://b.coker.com.au/ > > No need to register, just visit the above URL at the appointed time to join > the meeting. Best, Yuchen -- PGP Key: 47F9 D050 1E11 8879 9040 4941 2126 7E93 EF86 DFD0 From jamesbtobin at gmail.com Mon Jul 4 18:24:25 2022 From: jamesbtobin at gmail.com (James Tobin) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2022 09:24:25 +0100 Subject: [Linux-aus] JOB | Production Support (Sydney) Message-ID: Hello, I'm working with an employer that is looking to hire someone to help support their global financial trading platform in a Linux production environment from their Sydney office. Financial exposure would be beneficial (but not essential) - such as at least one asset class and the FIX protocol. Consequently, I hoped that some members of this list may like to discuss further. I can be reached using "JamesBTobin (at) Gmail (dot) Com". Kind regards, James From russell at coker.com.au Wed Jul 6 17:44:41 2022 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2022 17:44:41 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Ubuntu 20.04 resume time problem In-Reply-To: <165638705732.15378.2867537305908632373@noble.neil.brown.name> References: <2709207.mvXUDI8C0e@liv> <165638705732.15378.2867537305908632373@noble.neil.brown.name> Message-ID: <2590406.Lt9SDvczpP@liv> On Tuesday, 28 June 2022 13:30:57 AEST NeilBrown via linux-aus wrote: > On Tue, 28 Jun 2022, Russell Coker wrote: > > I have a laptop that is dual boot Ubuntu 20.04 and Windows. I've > > configured it for "RTC in local TZ" with timedatectl so it can have the > > same time as Windows (I'm aware that I could change Windows via regedit > > to use UTC for the hwclock but I'm trying to work out the best option for > > a corporate rollout). The problem is that I resume from suspend and the > > system immediately treats the RTC as if it was in UTC thus being out by > > 10 hours (time zone +1000). > > > > How does Ubuntu get the time from the RTC on resume? Any clues as to where > > to look would be really appreciated. I've done Google searches and found > > nothing helpful. Even if you just know which program does it that would > > help a lot, I could read the source. > > It isn't up to Ubuntu - the Linux kernel does (or should do) everything > needed. > Providing the kernel is built with CONFIG_PM_SLEEP and > CONFIG_RTC_HCTOSYS_DEVICE, and providing you have RTC hardware with a > suitable driver, then on suspend rtc_suspend() in drivers/rtc/class.c > will take note of the value stored in the rtc, and on resume > rtc_resume() will check what the difference was and update the clock. > > cat /sys/class/rtc/rtc0/hctosys > > should show "1" if everythings is configured properly. In that case it > should "just work". It does show "1" and the kernel build options include those ones you specify, but unfortunately it doesn't "just work". NTP the protocol allows fixing this with the systemd-timesyncd implementation, the ntpd implementation gets unhappy when the time is more than 20 minutes out. With systemd-timesyncd it takes some time to get back to the right time, sometimes more than 10 minutes. I have not seen this cause a SSL problem. When this happens Kerberos is no more broken than usual (that's another issue I have to solve). Yes I know that using the local time for the RTC has some downsides, but every option for dual boot has some downsides. Thanks for the suggestions. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From numard at meijome.net Wed Jul 6 18:57:29 2022 From: numard at meijome.net (Norberto Meijome) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 18:57:29 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Ubuntu 20.04 resume time problem In-Reply-To: <2590406.Lt9SDvczpP@liv> References: <2709207.mvXUDI8C0e@liv> <165638705732.15378.2867537305908632373@noble.neil.brown.name> <2590406.Lt9SDvczpP@liv> Message-ID: > With systemd-timesyncd it takes some time to get back to the right time, > sometimes more than 10 minutes. Hi, seeing the obvious/expected fixes have failed, I feel less squeamish to suggest an exec of ntpdate on wake and after network service is up. I hoped you could also tweak how aggressively systemd.timesyncd drifts the clock but its config seems quite minimal (only man page checked though). good luck, B On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 at 17:45, Russell Coker via linux-aus < linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > On Tuesday, 28 June 2022 13:30:57 AEST NeilBrown via linux-aus wrote: > > On Tue, 28 Jun 2022, Russell Coker wrote: > > > I have a laptop that is dual boot Ubuntu 20.04 and Windows. I've > > > configured it for "RTC in local TZ" with timedatectl so it can have the > > > same time as Windows (I'm aware that I could change Windows via regedit > > > to use UTC for the hwclock but I'm trying to work out the best option > for > > > a corporate rollout). The problem is that I resume from suspend and > the > > > system immediately treats the RTC as if it was in UTC thus being out by > > > 10 hours (time zone +1000). > > > > > > How does Ubuntu get the time from the RTC on resume? Any clues as to > where > > > to look would be really appreciated. I've done Google searches and > found > > > nothing helpful. Even if you just know which program does it that would > > > help a lot, I could read the source. > > > > It isn't up to Ubuntu - the Linux kernel does (or should do) everything > > needed. > > Providing the kernel is built with CONFIG_PM_SLEEP and > > CONFIG_RTC_HCTOSYS_DEVICE, and providing you have RTC hardware with a > > suitable driver, then on suspend rtc_suspend() in drivers/rtc/class.c > > will take note of the value stored in the rtc, and on resume > > rtc_resume() will check what the difference was and update the clock. > > > > cat /sys/class/rtc/rtc0/hctosys > > > > should show "1" if everythings is configured properly. In that case it > > should "just work". > > It does show "1" and the kernel build options include those ones you > specify, > but unfortunately it doesn't "just work". > > NTP the protocol allows fixing this with the systemd-timesyncd > implementation, > the ntpd implementation gets unhappy when the time is more than 20 minutes > out. With systemd-timesyncd it takes some time to get back to the right > time, > sometimes more than 10 minutes. > > I have not seen this cause a SSL problem. When this happens Kerberos is > no > more broken than usual (that's another issue I have to solve). > > Yes I know that using the local time for the RTC has some downsides, but > every > option for dual boot has some downsides. > > Thanks for the suggestions. > > -- > My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ > My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux at eyal.emu.id.au Wed Jul 6 22:00:31 2022 From: linux at eyal.emu.id.au (Eyal Lebedinsky) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 22:00:31 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Ubuntu 20.04 resume time problem In-Reply-To: References: <2709207.mvXUDI8C0e@liv> <165638705732.15378.2867537305908632373@noble.neil.brown.name> <2590406.Lt9SDvczpP@liv> Message-ID: On 06/07/2022 18.57, Norberto Meijome via linux-aus wrote: > > With systemd-timesyncd it takes some time to get back to the right time, > > sometimes more than 10 minutes. > > Hi, > seeing the obvious/expected fixes have failed, I feel less squeamish?to suggest an exec of ntpdate on wake and after network service is up. I hoped you could also tweak how aggressively systemd.timesyncd drifts the clock but its config seems quite minimal (only man page checked though). I see this problem regularly when I boot a windows laptop after running Linux from SSD. Linux seems to sort this out OK on boot but not windows. However, when a linux kvm is resumed it does not adjust the time, so my wakeup script issues, following the 'virsh restore': ssh eyal at e4 'sudo ntpdate -bu time.iinet.net.au' I did not find a simpler solution when I looked into it a few years ago. > good luck, > B > > On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 at 17:45, Russell Coker via linux-aus > wrote: > > On Tuesday, 28 June 2022 13:30:57 AEST NeilBrown via linux-aus wrote: > > On Tue, 28 Jun 2022, Russell Coker wrote: > > > I have a laptop that is dual boot Ubuntu 20.04 and Windows. I've > > > configured it for "RTC in local TZ" with timedatectl so it can have the > > > same time as Windows (I'm aware that I could change Windows via regedit > > > to use UTC for the hwclock but I'm trying to work out the best option for > > > a corporate rollout).? The problem is that I resume from suspend and the > > > system immediately treats the RTC as if it was in UTC thus being out by > > > 10 hours (time zone +1000). > > > > > > How does Ubuntu get the time from the RTC on resume? Any clues as to where > > > to look would be really appreciated. I've done Google searches and found > > > nothing helpful. Even if you just know which program does it that would > > > help a lot, I could read the source. > > > > It isn't up to Ubuntu - the Linux kernel does (or should do) everything > > needed. > > Providing the kernel is built with CONFIG_PM_SLEEP and > > CONFIG_RTC_HCTOSYS_DEVICE, and providing you have RTC hardware with a > > suitable driver, then on suspend rtc_suspend() in drivers/rtc/class.c > > will take note of the value stored in the rtc, and on resume > > rtc_resume() will check what the difference was and update the clock. > > > > cat /sys/class/rtc/rtc0/hctosys > > > > should show "1" if everythings is configured properly.? In that case it > > should "just work". > > It does show "1" and the kernel build options include those ones you specify, > but unfortunately it doesn't "just work". > > NTP the protocol allows fixing this with the systemd-timesyncd implementation, > the ntpd implementation gets unhappy when the time is more than 20 minutes > out.? With systemd-timesyncd it takes some time to get back to the right time, > sometimes more than 10 minutes. > > I have not seen this cause a SSL problem.? When this happens Kerberos is no > more broken than usual (that's another issue I have to solve). > > Yes I know that using the local time for the RTC has some downsides, but every > option for dual boot has some downsides. > > Thanks for the suggestions. > > -- > My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ > My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ -- Eyal Lebedinsky (linux at eyal.emu.id.au) From paul at cohsoft.com.au Thu Jul 7 11:50:56 2022 From: paul at cohsoft.com.au (Paul Foxworthy) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2022 11:50:56 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] LUV needs volunteers In-Reply-To: <12009197.O9o76ZdvQC@xev> References: <8197059.NyiUUSuA9g@liv> <87ilofq0vq.fsf@ypei.me> <12009197.O9o76ZdvQC@xev> Message-ID: Hi all, Just get mailmanlists (mailmanlists.net) to do it. Sydney based and when I have needed support they have been very responsive. Cheers Paul Foxworthy On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 at 21:11, Russell Coker via linux-aus < linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > On Saturday, 2 July 2022 20:12:25 AEST Yuchen Pei wrote: > > On Sat 2022-07-02 11:54:50 +1000, Russell Coker via luv-main wrote: > > > Finally one thing that should be considered is moving the LUV mailing > > > lists to the Linux Australia server. The latest version of Mailman is > a > > > major pain to run and the older version is deprecated. > > > > I don't quite get this part. LUV list server seems to be using > > mailman3, whereas mailman2 is still widely used, including the Linux > > Australia list server[1]. By the older version is deprecated do you > > mean that the LUV server cannot *revert* back to mailman2? > > > > [1] https://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo > > It probably can, but it's a pain and no-one is volunteering to do it. > > https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=mailman > > But if you did it then you would have to support it, Mailman version 2.x > is no > longer in Debian. At this time someone might suggest using a distribution > other than Debian which still supports Mailman 2.x, but that makes > supporting > all the other stuff more difficult or requires a second VM. > > -- > My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ > My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au > -- Coherent Software Australia Pty Ltd PO Box 2773 Cheltenham Vic 3192 Australia Phone: +61 3 9585 6788 Web: http://www.coherentsoftware.com.au/ Email: info at coherentsoftware.com.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hdixon at bigpond.net.au Fri Jul 8 16:42:02 2022 From: hdixon at bigpond.net.au (hd) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2022 16:42:02 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] LUV needs volunteers In-Reply-To: <8197059.NyiUUSuA9g@liv> References: <8197059.NyiUUSuA9g@liv> Message-ID: <20220708164202.70c868db@dtop.modem> On Sat, 02 Jul 2022 11:54:50 +1000 Russell Coker via luv-main wrote: > Currently no-one is reading the LUV president email. Email about the > expiry of luv.asn.au have been going to the president mailbox since > April and now the domain is suspended. I'm CCing this email to the > Linux Australia list because probably a lot of LUV members won't get > this message through the LUV list due to the expired domain. > > The LUV committee list receives almost no email, the committee seems > entirely inactive in aggregate. Presumably Andrew Pam will renew the > domain (as he did last year) after my monitoring system detected that > the domain was suspended (as it did last year) due to President email > not being read and it not being renewed in time. I'm putting this in > a public email because I don't want to be falsely accused of being > responsible for this debacle as I was last year. > > If LUV is going to run effectively it needs someone to volunteer to > read the president email. It gets an average of 2-3 spam messages > per day which is probably not much compared to the spam that slips > through most of our spam filters. > > Most of the LUV president spam comes from the web contact form. The > contact page could be changed to not have a form for submitting a > message and instead refer to a Matrix address or something, it's easy > to change. While I've generally given up on all LUV sysadmin tasks > than the minimum needed to keep things running I would be happy to > change the contact page to something that will get a response for > people who want information (IE anything other than going to a > mailbox that hasn't been read since early September 2021). > > Finally one thing that should be considered is moving the LUV mailing > lists to the Linux Australia server. The latest version of Mailman > is a major pain to run and the older version is deprecated. It > doesn't seem likely that anyone will volunteer to give the LUV > mailing lists the attention that's needed to get them running > properly and the LA lists are maintained properly. > How many emails go into the presidents mailbox? (ie ham) If all that is required is basic sorting and forwarding I could make some time every couple of days to do this. I have little knowledge of the workings of LUV, so will not be replying to email, but deleting spam and forwarding outstanding bills to the treasurer and other email to respective committee members does not sound impossible... H From jackson.lyndsey at gmail.com Fri Jul 8 23:28:22 2022 From: jackson.lyndsey at gmail.com (Lyndsey Jackson) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2022 22:58:22 +0930 Subject: [Linux-aus] LUV needs volunteers In-Reply-To: References: <8197059.NyiUUSuA9g@liv> Message-ID: Ten bucks and a member gets a tax benefit seems like a good deal to me. I love tax deductions tho Am I allowed to reply to this? I don't know the rules Lyndsey On Sat, Jul 2, 2022, 2:27 PM Tim via linux-aus wrote: > I'm happy to offer the same 'service' that I offer PLUG, regarding domain > registrations to any Australian Linux/Unix user group. I'll register the > domain through my business wholesale account, and that way it's always > automatically renewed and paid and I just invoice the LUG the cost of the > domain (rounded up to the nearest dollar, so $10, so I can tell the ATO I > am /trying/ to make a profit). Many years ago we had this recurring issue > with PLUG domains expiring due to there not being a PLUG credit card to > have automatic renewals setup on, and just having an individual put their > card on the line was a little more than people wanted. At one point we used > prepaid cards, but they expire and also people forget to topup the funds. > > As long as the LUG eventually pays the invoice, I'm not concerned, and I > can pester them once a month until it's paid. For many years I just donated > the cost of PLUG's domain instead of bothering with invoicing, but I no > longer make money with my business, it's just there to give non-profits > access to cheap domains and webhosting. > > Who am I to offer this? Many many many moons ago I was the PLUG president, > technically still am a PLUG system admin, and now my involvement is mostly > just lurking as having a family doesn't leave as much free time (and I'm > rural to Perth). > > Regards > > Tim > > On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 at 09:55, Russell Coker via linux-aus < > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > >> Currently no-one is reading the LUV president email. Email about the >> expiry >> of luv.asn.au have been going to the president mailbox since April and >> now the >> domain is suspended. I'm CCing this email to the Linux Australia list >> because >> probably a lot of LUV members won't get this message through the LUV list >> due >> to the expired domain. >> >> The LUV committee list receives almost no email, the committee seems >> entirely >> inactive in aggregate. Presumably Andrew Pam will renew the domain (as >> he did >> last year) after my monitoring system detected that the domain was >> suspended >> (as it did last year) due to President email not being read and it not >> being >> renewed in time. I'm putting this in a public email because I don't want >> to >> be falsely accused of being responsible for this debacle as I was last >> year. >> >> If LUV is going to run effectively it needs someone to volunteer to read >> the >> president email. It gets an average of 2-3 spam messages per day which >> is >> probably not much compared to the spam that slips through most of our >> spam >> filters. >> >> Most of the LUV president spam comes from the web contact form. The >> contact >> page could be changed to not have a form for submitting a message and >> instead >> refer to a Matrix address or something, it's easy to change. While I've >> generally given up on all LUV sysadmin tasks than the minimum needed to >> keep >> things running I would be happy to change the contact page to something >> that >> will get a response for people who want information (IE anything other >> than >> going to a mailbox that hasn't been read since early September 2021). >> >> Finally one thing that should be considered is moving the LUV mailing >> lists to >> the Linux Australia server. The latest version of Mailman is a major >> pain to >> run and the older version is deprecated. It doesn't seem likely that >> anyone >> will volunteer to give the LUV mailing lists the attention that's needed >> to >> get them running properly and the LA lists are maintained properly. >> >> -- >> My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ >> My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> linux-aus mailing list >> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au >> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus >> >> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to >> linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au >> > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From luke at rapiddata.com.au Fri Jul 8 23:47:53 2022 From: luke at rapiddata.com.au (Luke Attard) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2022 23:47:53 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] LUV needs volunteers In-Reply-To: References: <8197059.NyiUUSuA9g@liv> Message-ID: Long answer: The rule I go by, is if you are on the list, then you can send to the list. You received the message, so you are on the list, and therefore can reply if you want. Short Answer: Yes Regards, Luke Attard On 8/07/2022 23:28, Lyndsey Jackson via linux-aus wrote: > Ten bucks and a member gets a tax benefit seems like a good deal to me. > > I love tax deductions tho > > Am I allowed to reply to this? I don't know the rules > > Lyndsey > > On Sat, Jul 2, 2022, 2:27 PM Tim via linux-aus > wrote: > > I'm happy to offer the same 'service' that I offer PLUG, regarding > domain registrations to any Australian Linux/Unix user group. I'll > register the domain through my business wholesale account, and > that way it's always automatically renewed and paid and I just > invoice the LUG the cost of the domain (rounded up to the nearest > dollar, so $10, so I can tell the ATO I am /trying/ to make a > profit). Many years ago we had this recurring issue with PLUG > domains expiring due to there not being a PLUG credit card to have > automatic renewals setup on, and just having an individual put > their card on the line was a little more than people wanted. At > one point we used prepaid cards, but they expire and also people > forget to topup the funds. > > As long as the LUG eventually pays the invoice, I'm not concerned, > and I can pester them once a month until it's paid. For many years > I just donated the cost of PLUG's domain instead of bothering with > invoicing, but I no longer make money with my business, it's just > there to give non-profits access to cheap domains and webhosting. > > Who am I to offer this? Many many many moons ago I was the PLUG > president, technically still am a PLUG system admin, and now my > involvement is mostly just lurking as having a family doesn't > leave as much free time (and I'm rural to Perth). > > Regards > > Tim > > On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 at 09:55, Russell Coker via linux-aus > wrote: > > Currently no-one is reading the LUV president email.? Email > about the expiry > of luv.asn.au have been going to the > president mailbox since April and now the > domain is suspended.? I'm CCing this email to the Linux > Australia list because > probably a lot of LUV members won't get this message through > the LUV list due > to the expired domain. > > The LUV committee list receives almost no email, the committee > seems entirely > inactive in aggregate.? Presumably Andrew Pam will renew the > domain (as he did > last year) after my monitoring system detected that the domain > was suspended > (as it did last year) due to President email not being read > and it not being > renewed in time.? I'm putting this in a public email because I > don't want to > be falsely accused of being responsible for this debacle as I > was last year. > > If LUV is going to run effectively it needs someone to > volunteer to read the > president email.? It gets an average of 2-3 spam messages per > day which is > probably not much compared to the spam that slips through most > of our spam > filters. > > Most of the LUV president spam comes from the web contact > form.? The contact > page could be changed to not have a form for submitting a > message and instead > refer to a Matrix address or something, it's easy to change.? > While I've > generally given up on all LUV sysadmin tasks than the minimum > needed to keep > things running I would be happy to change the contact page to > something that > will get a response for people who want information (IE > anything other than > going to a mailbox that hasn't been read since early September > 2021). > > Finally one thing that should be considered is moving the LUV > mailing lists to > the Linux Australia server.? The latest version of Mailman is > a major pain to > run and the older version is deprecated.? It doesn't seem > likely that anyone > will volunteer to give the LUV mailing lists the attention > that's needed to > get them running properly and the LA lists are maintained > properly. > > -- > My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ > My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au > > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From russell at coker.com.au Sat Jul 9 21:16:52 2022 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2022 21:16:52 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] LUV needs volunteers In-Reply-To: <59233B5E-E3B9-4CE5-877B-89432DB5221E@netexperts.com.au> References: <8197059.NyiUUSuA9g@liv> <20220708164202.70c868db@dtop.modem> <59233B5E-E3B9-4CE5-877B-89432DB5221E@netexperts.com.au> Message-ID: <22707324.6Emhk5qWAg@xev> On Friday, 8 July 2022 19:07:25 AEST Melissa Star wrote: > I?m happy to help, and if you need money to renew the domain, I?ll take on > the cost (assuming it?s the typical $10-$20ish cost of a .au domain > renewal). Thanks for the offer, but LUV has plenty of money being a subcommittee of Linux Australia. While we can hand over the domain to Linux Australia and that would probably be the best thing to do given that LUV is a LA subcommittee that still leaves the issue that mail needs to be read. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From sonamdolji at gmail.com Sat Jul 9 21:21:55 2022 From: sonamdolji at gmail.com (Sonam Dorji) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2022 21:21:55 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] LUV needs volunteers In-Reply-To: <22707324.6Emhk5qWAg@xev> References: <8197059.NyiUUSuA9g@liv> <20220708164202.70c868db@dtop.modem> <59233B5E-E3B9-4CE5-877B-89432DB5221E@netexperts.com.au> <22707324.6Emhk5qWAg@xev> Message-ID: Hi, I am happy to volunteer. Let me know how can I help. I am based in Canberra and I have just basic knowledge in Linux. However, I would like to learn more. With regards, Sonam Dorji On Sat, 9 Jul 2022 at 9:17 pm, Russell Coker via linux-aus < linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > On Friday, 8 July 2022 19:07:25 AEST Melissa Star wrote: > > I?m happy to help, and if you need money to renew the domain, I?ll take > on > > the cost (assuming it?s the typical $10-$20ish cost of a .au domain > > renewal). > > Thanks for the offer, but LUV has plenty of money being a subcommittee of > Linux Australia. > > While we can hand over the domain to Linux Australia and that would > probably > be the best thing to do given that LUV is a LA subcommittee that still > leaves > the issue that mail needs to be read. > > -- > My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ > My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -- *With Regards,Sonam Dorji* *Contact No: 0452623605* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From russell at coker.com.au Sat Jul 9 21:45:19 2022 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2022 21:45:19 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] LUV needs volunteers In-Reply-To: References: <8197059.NyiUUSuA9g@liv> <12009197.O9o76ZdvQC@xev> Message-ID: <1910900.yKVeVyVuyW@xev> On Thursday, 7 July 2022 11:50:56 AEST Paul Foxworthy wrote: > Just get mailmanlists (mailmanlists.net) to do it. Sydney based and when I > have needed support they have been very responsive. Thanks for the suggestion. While $13/month isn't an impossible amount of money I think it's best to avoid spending when possible. The LA List server runs pretty well now that they don't have DKIM problems so running it there would be a better option if the choice is to now self host it any more. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From russell at coker.com.au Sat Jul 9 21:54:10 2022 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2022 21:54:10 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] LUV needs volunteers In-Reply-To: <20220708164202.70c868db@dtop.modem> References: <8197059.NyiUUSuA9g@liv> <20220708164202.70c868db@dtop.modem> Message-ID: <14670659.tv2OnDr8pf@xev> On Friday, 8 July 2022 16:42:02 AEST hd via linux-aus wrote: > How many emails go into the presidents mailbox? (ie ham) > If all that is required is basic sorting and forwarding I could make > some time every couple of days to do this. > I have little knowledge of the workings of LUV, so will not be > replying to email, but deleting spam and forwarding outstanding bills to > the treasurer and other email to respective committee members does not > sound impossible... There's only 2-3 messages per day, most of which are from the web form and therefore identifying spam from ham isn't as easy as with most mail (the subject and sender aren't relevant). But generally mail isn't urgent, you could check it once a week. Most mail that isn't spam is questions about how to join LUV (give them the list subscription details) or simple Linux questions (you can answer any that you can and point them to a list for anything more difficult). Nothing really difficult, just has to be done consistently. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From russell at coker.com.au Sat Jul 9 22:49:31 2022 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2022 22:49:31 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] LUV needs volunteers In-Reply-To: References: <8197059.NyiUUSuA9g@liv> <22707324.6Emhk5qWAg@xev> Message-ID: <4821627.0VBMTVartN@xev> On Saturday, 9 July 2022 21:21:55 AEST Sonam Dorji wrote: > Hi, I am happy to volunteer. Let me know how can I help. I am based in > Canberra and I have just basic knowledge in Linux. However, I would like to > learn more. https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/linux The Canberra's LUG has some activity on their mailing list, I don't know if they still have meetings. If CLUG has a meeting some time when I'm in Canberra I could join that, I could give a talk on something interesting related to Linux that I've worked on recently. http://clug.org.au/ http://matlab.anu.edu.au/ CLUG has 2 web sites, one is broken and the other hasn't been changed for 13 years. It would be good if you could find someone to work with you on updating those sites and getting more stuff going in Canberra. https://flounder.linux.org.au/ Also Flounder has only online meetings and may be suitable for you. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From luke at rapiddata.com.au Sun Jul 10 01:44:42 2022 From: luke at rapiddata.com.au (Luke Attard) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 01:44:42 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Nomination to fill the causal vacancy - President for LUV Message-ID: <287ac4ad-b86c-6e22-d5ed-058e96522cb1@rapiddata.com.au> LUV Members, Over the last few days there has been a discussion regarding the LUV President mail box, and the need to have this checked/cleared regularly.? There has been a couple of volunteers from outside of Victoria, and thank you to those people for offering to help. I always believe it is better to fix a problem in full if possible, rather then doing a band-aid fix and kicking the can down the road.? Therefore I purpose we fix the main problem, being that there is no a President for LUV, and by sounds of it the position has been vacant for some time. Being a linux user for over 20 years, I have wanted to get more involved for some time now, and I have the time available to give the position the attention it needs. Happy to give more of a profile and rundown of my experience if anyone wants it. ?I formally nominate myself to fill the causal Vacancy position of? President for LUV, and therefore take on the responsibility for the president's mailbox, and the responsibility for completing/delegating out the other tasks that have been discussed that needs seeing too. Luke Attard From russell at coker.com.au Sun Jul 10 12:38:56 2022 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 12:38:56 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Nomination to fill the causal vacancy - President for LUV In-Reply-To: <287ac4ad-b86c-6e22-d5ed-058e96522cb1@rapiddata.com.au> References: <287ac4ad-b86c-6e22-d5ed-058e96522cb1@rapiddata.com.au> Message-ID: <6402996.G0QQBjFxQf@xev> On Sunday, 10 July 2022 01:44:42 AEST Luke Attard via linux-aus wrote: > I formally nominate myself to fill the causal Vacancy position of > President for LUV, and therefore take on the responsibility for the > president's mailbox, and the responsibility for completing/delegating > out the other tasks that have been discussed that needs seeing too. To get a new president we need to have an AGM, which we haven't had for some years. Such a meeting needs to have advance notice of at least a month. So we could plan an AGM for September, formally announce it within a week, and then accept your nomination. Some things to note, firstly it's convention that someone's first committee position isn't as president. So while it's not impossible it will be an uphill battle if someone else contends for the position. The next thing is that it's not required that someone be president to read the president email, being on the committee is required for such things but ordinary committee members can be appointed by general agreement without an election. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From blakjak at blakjak.net Sun Jul 10 12:51:48 2022 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 14:51:48 +1200 Subject: [Linux-aus] Nomination to fill the causal vacancy - President for LUV In-Reply-To: <6402996.G0QQBjFxQf@xev> References: <287ac4ad-b86c-6e22-d5ed-058e96522cb1@rapiddata.com.au> <6402996.G0QQBjFxQf@xev> Message-ID: <7c7a3412-7660-4503-b376-454f8709db7f@blakjak.net> On 10/07/2022 2:38 pm, Russell Coker via linux-aus wrote: > On Sunday, 10 July 2022 01:44:42 AEST Luke Attard via linux-aus wrote: >> I formally nominate myself to fill the causal Vacancy position of >> President for LUV, and therefore take on the responsibility for the >> president's mailbox, and the responsibility for completing/delegating >> out the other tasks that have been discussed that needs seeing too. > To get a new president we need to have an AGM, which we haven't had for some > years. Such a meeting needs to have advance notice of at least a month. So > we could plan an AGM for September, formally announce it within a week, and > then accept your nomination. > > Some things to note, firstly it's convention that someone's first committee > position isn't as president. So while it's not impossible it will be an > uphill battle if someone else contends for the position. The next thing is > that it's not required that someone be president to read the president email, > being on the committee is required for such things but ordinary committee > members can be appointed by general agreement without an election. I'm largely an outsider but I am finding this entire thread somewhat ridiculous. There should be no need to 'call for volunteers to read the President's emails'. Whoever holds that role, either permanently or for the interim, or whoever is acting in that role, should be reading it and taking whatever necessary actions result. If the group has not had an AGM for some time, then the group is not acting within the expected norms of an organised society or group and so its legal status is at question, at best. The technical issue of managing things like domain name registrations or SSL cert renewals are something else. Either LUV has the critical mass of interested persons to sustain its operations or it doesn't. If there's community value in Linux Australia directly intervening to ensure that the operations are continued for the benefit of its members _but in the absence of LUV themselves being in a position to make those decisions_, then if the relationship supports that, then fine. But the entire idea of hitting up the larger LA community for a volunteer, astounds me a bit. If LUV in its current form is unsustainable then change is required, but LUV or its remnants should be the first people initiating actions on this. Mark. From brian at linuxpenguins.xyz Sun Jul 10 13:18:05 2022 From: brian at linuxpenguins.xyz (Brian May) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 13:18:05 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Nomination to fill the causal vacancy - President for LUV In-Reply-To: <6402996.G0QQBjFxQf@xev> References: <287ac4ad-b86c-6e22-d5ed-058e96522cb1@rapiddata.com.au> <6402996.G0QQBjFxQf@xev> Message-ID: <87let1sljm.fsf@canidae.wired.pri> Russell Coker via linux-aus writes: > To get a new president we need to have an AGM, which we haven't had for some > years. Such a meeting needs to have advance notice of at least a month. So > we could plan an AGM for September, formally announce it within a week, and > then accept your nomination. In that case do we even have a committee? > [...]. So while it's not impossible it will be an uphill battle if > someone else contends for the position. [...] I get the impression the reason we are in this mess is because there is little or no interest in contending the position of president. -- Brian May https://linuxpenguins.xyz/brian/ From russell at coker.com.au Sun Jul 10 15:30:38 2022 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 15:30:38 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Nomination to fill the causal vacancy - President for LUV In-Reply-To: <87let1sljm.fsf@canidae.wired.pri> References: <287ac4ad-b86c-6e22-d5ed-058e96522cb1@rapiddata.com.au> <6402996.G0QQBjFxQf@xev> <87let1sljm.fsf@canidae.wired.pri> Message-ID: <7537466.lvqk35OSZv@xev> On Sunday, 10 July 2022 13:18:05 AEST Brian May wrote: > Russell Coker via linux-aus writes: > > To get a new president we need to have an AGM, which we haven't had for > > some years. Such a meeting needs to have advance notice of at least a > > month. So we could plan an AGM for September, formally announce it > > within a week, and then accept your nomination. > > In that case do we even have a committee? There are 21 people subscribed to the luv-ctte mailing list, so yes. > > [...]. So while it's not impossible it will be an uphill battle if > > someone else contends for the position. [...] > > I get the impression the reason we are in this mess is because there is > little or no interest in contending the position of president. I think there is much more interest in contending the position than doing the job. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From luke at rapiddata.com.au Sun Jul 10 15:37:54 2022 From: luke at rapiddata.com.au (Luke Attard) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 15:37:54 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Nomination to fill the causal vacancy - President for LUV In-Reply-To: <87let1sljm.fsf@canidae.wired.pri> References: <287ac4ad-b86c-6e22-d5ed-058e96522cb1@rapiddata.com.au> <6402996.G0QQBjFxQf@xev> <87let1sljm.fsf@canidae.wired.pri> Message-ID: <3586abc7-8f33-dc28-dc99-270f1720427e@rapiddata.com.au> Thank you everyone for the input. I am not worried about what the title is, not putting my hand up to add an extra line on my resume, just wanting to contribute.? I am happy if the title was "systemd" for all I care. I have been on boards, and committees many times in the past, one thing I have learned, is to always read the constitution and by-laws before sending out anything.? LUV is a subcommittee of Linux Australia, therefore the need for a AGM to appoint a "President" or any role for that matter is not required, Linux Australia Committee may appoint (and remove) members of a subcommittee as they see fit. People on committees, can get burned out, or have events in life that takes their attention away form the organisation.? It is not surprising with Covid and everything else going on, that an a few subcommittees have been left without active members.? I am willing, have the time and I am able to jump in, keep the organisation going, and hopefully inject some life back into it. I will at least get the monthly meetings running again, tidy up the site, and? other tasks that need doing, and I am sure we will see people coming back, and activity leads to more activity. I am not wanting to step on anyone's toes, and if I have done so, I apologies.? Without Russell's email requesting volunteers, I would not have known the LUV committee had not been active and needed some more help.? Ideally organisations have new active members that step up regularly to allow those who have been doing the tasks for some time to have a break and recharge.? Committees are also good training grounds for the? younger (by age or heart) who want to learn what is actually involved in running an organisation and getting events from paper to reality If any of the previous committee members situations change again, and they have the time and desire to help out again, I will be the first to welcome them.? However in the absence of any such members, the Linux Australia Constitution allows for new appointments to ensure the subcommittee keeps going, and I for one do not see a negative.? One of my tasks would be to organise a AGM for Jan, in line with Linux Australia, even perhaps to run on the same day, directly after the Linux Australia AGM to hopefully encourage a higher attendance. Happy to answer any questions, and to hear any ideas.?? I live in Melbourne, I a member of LUV now, and therefore Russell's email has worked even better, in my view, then he had intended. Have a great afternoon, Luke Attard On 10/07/2022 13:18, Brian May via luv-main wrote: > Russell Coker via linux-aus writes: > >> To get a new president we need to have an AGM, which we haven't had for some >> years. Such a meeting needs to have advance notice of at least a month. So >> we could plan an AGM for September, formally announce it within a week, and >> then accept your nomination. > In that case do we even have a committee? > >> [...]. So while it's not impossible it will be an uphill battle if >> someone else contends for the position. [...] > I get the impression the reason we are in this mess is because there is > little or no interest in contending the position of president. From andrew at sericyb.com.au Sun Jul 10 15:43:33 2022 From: andrew at sericyb.com.au (Andrew Pam) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 15:43:33 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] LUV needs volunteers In-Reply-To: References: <8197059.NyiUUSuA9g@liv> Message-ID: On 2/7/22 14:56, Tim via linux-aus wrote: > I'm happy to offer the same 'service' that I offer PLUG, regarding > domain registrations to any Australian Linux/Unix user group. I'll > register the domain through my business wholesale account, and that way > it's always automatically renewed and paid and I just invoice the LUG > the cost of the domain (rounded up to the nearest dollar, so $10, so I > can tell the ATO I am /trying/ to make a profit). That sounds excellent, thanks. I have just renewed luv.asn.au for another two years, and we currently have luv.au on Priority Hold pending release. Cheers, Andrew -- mailto:andrew at sericyb.com.au Andrew Pam https://sericyb.com.au/ Manager, Serious Cybernetics https://glasswings.com.au/ Partner, Glass Wings From andrew at sericyb.com.au Sun Jul 10 15:46:05 2022 From: andrew at sericyb.com.au (Andrew Pam) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 15:46:05 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] LUV needs volunteers In-Reply-To: References: <8197059.NyiUUSuA9g@liv> Message-ID: On 2/7/22 18:48, Jonathan Woithe via linux-aus wrote: > Linux Australia (LA) is also happy to handle domain registration and renewal > for LUGs and other similar groups. We already do this for TasLUG and SLUG > (I think). LA does not charge LUGs for the domains that it manages on their > behalf - it's part of the service we offer to the community. > > If the relevant people are interested in pursuing this for LUV please > contact me or anyone else on the LA council, and we'll make it happen. That sounds even better! The LUV committee will make a note to contact the LA council when luv.au becomes available and when luv.asn.au is next coming up for renewal in 2024. Thanks, Andrew -- mailto:andrew at sericyb.com.au Andrew Pam https://sericyb.com.au/ Manager, Serious Cybernetics https://glasswings.com.au/ Partner, Glass Wings From russell at coker.com.au Sun Jul 10 17:33:57 2022 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 17:33:57 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Nomination to fill the causal vacancy - President for LUV In-Reply-To: <3586abc7-8f33-dc28-dc99-270f1720427e@rapiddata.com.au> References: <287ac4ad-b86c-6e22-d5ed-058e96522cb1@rapiddata.com.au> <87let1sljm.fsf@canidae.wired.pri> <3586abc7-8f33-dc28-dc99-270f1720427e@rapiddata.com.au> Message-ID: <8636180.VV5PYv0bhD@xev> On Sunday, 10 July 2022 15:37:54 AEST Luke Attard via linux-aus wrote: > I have been on boards, and committees many times in the past, one thing > I have learned, is to always read the constitution and by-laws before > sending out anything. LUV is a subcommittee of Linux Australia, > therefore the need for a AGM to appoint a "President" or any role for > that matter is not required, Linux Australia Committee may appoint (and > remove) members of a subcommittee as they see fit. True. But after becoming a subcommittee LUV had continued to have AGMs and the general agreement was that it would continue to do so. However one could argue that by having no AGMs since before Covid19 that agreement was broken. > People on committees, can get burned out, or have events in life that > takes their attention away form the organisation. It is not surprising > with Covid and everything else going on, that an a few subcommittees > have been left without active members. I am willing, have the time and > I am able to jump in, keep the organisation going, and hopefully inject > some life back into it. I will at least get the monthly meetings running > again, tidy up the site, and other tasks that need doing, and I am sure > we will see people coming back, and activity leads to more activity. That sounds positive. > If any of the previous committee members situations change again, and > they have the time and desire to help out again, I will be the first to > welcome them. However in the absence of any such members, the Linux > Australia Constitution allows for new appointments to ensure the > subcommittee keeps going, and I for one do not see a negative. One of > my tasks would be to organise a AGM for Jan, in line with Linux > Australia, even perhaps to run on the same day, directly after the Linux > Australia AGM to hopefully encourage a higher attendance. Sounds reasonable. > Happy to answer any questions, and to hear any ideas. I live in > Melbourne, I a member of LUV now, and therefore Russell's email has > worked even better, in my view, then he had intended. Great! -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From aperinich at gmail.com Sun Jul 10 17:44:33 2022 From: aperinich at gmail.com (Alex Perinich) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 17:44:33 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Nomination to fill the causal vacancy - President for LUV In-Reply-To: <8636180.VV5PYv0bhD@xev> References: <287ac4ad-b86c-6e22-d5ed-058e96522cb1@rapiddata.com.au> <87let1sljm.fsf@canidae.wired.pri> <3586abc7-8f33-dc28-dc99-270f1720427e@rapiddata.com.au> <8636180.VV5PYv0bhD@xev> Message-ID: I've unsubbed this multiple times, but still getting blasted. Please stop emailing this address, has changed hands and interests On 10/7/22 5:33 pm, Russell Coker via linux-aus wrote: > On Sunday, 10 July 2022 15:37:54 AEST Luke Attard via linux-aus wrote: >> I have been on boards, and committees many times in the past, one thing >> I have learned, is to always read the constitution and by-laws before >> sending out anything. LUV is a subcommittee of Linux Australia, >> therefore the need for a AGM to appoint a "President" or any role for >> that matter is not required, Linux Australia Committee may appoint (and >> remove) members of a subcommittee as they see fit. > True. But after becoming a subcommittee LUV had continued to have AGMs and > the general agreement was that it would continue to do so. However one could > argue that by having no AGMs since before Covid19 that agreement was broken. > >> People on committees, can get burned out, or have events in life that >> takes their attention away form the organisation. It is not surprising >> with Covid and everything else going on, that an a few subcommittees >> have been left without active members. I am willing, have the time and >> I am able to jump in, keep the organisation going, and hopefully inject >> some life back into it. I will at least get the monthly meetings running >> again, tidy up the site, and other tasks that need doing, and I am sure >> we will see people coming back, and activity leads to more activity. > That sounds positive. > >> If any of the previous committee members situations change again, and >> they have the time and desire to help out again, I will be the first to >> welcome them. However in the absence of any such members, the Linux >> Australia Constitution allows for new appointments to ensure the >> subcommittee keeps going, and I for one do not see a negative. One of >> my tasks would be to organise a AGM for Jan, in line with Linux >> Australia, even perhaps to run on the same day, directly after the Linux >> Australia AGM to hopefully encourage a higher attendance. > Sounds reasonable. > >> Happy to answer any questions, and to hear any ideas. I live in >> Melbourne, I a member of LUV now, and therefore Russell's email has >> worked even better, in my view, then he had intended. > Great! > From keith.bainbridge.3216 at mail.com Sun Jul 10 12:40:00 2022 From: keith.bainbridge.3216 at mail.com (Keith Bainbridge) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 02:40:00 +0000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Nomination to fill the causal vacancy - President for LUV In-Reply-To: <99c9e072-d4cc-f9be-87d4-0748fd966fd8@cuft.com.au> References: <287ac4ad-b86c-6e22-d5ed-058e96522cb1@rapiddata.com.au> <99c9e072-d4cc-f9be-87d4-0748fd966fd8@cuft.com.au> Message-ID: Agree As long as the existing office bearers are happy to work with Luke -- All the best Keith Bainbridge keith.bainbridge.3216 at mail.com 0447 667 468 Sent from my Android tablet, Please excuse my brevity On 10 July 2022 1:23:36 am UTC, Rohan McLeod via luv-main wrote: >Luke Attard via luv-main wrote: >> LUV Members, >> >> Over the last few days there has been a discussion regarding the LUV President mail box, and the need to have this checked/cleared regularly.? There has been a couple of volunteers from outside of Victoria, and thank you to those people for offering to help. >> >> I always believe it is better to fix a problem in full if possible, rather then doing a band-aid fix and kicking the can down the road.? Therefore I purpose we fix the main problem, being that there is no a President for LUV, and by sounds of it the position has been vacant for some time. >> >> Being a linux user for over 20 years, I have wanted to get more involved for some time now, and I have the time available to give the position the attention it needs. Happy to give more of a profile and rundown of my experience if anyone wants it. >> >> ?I formally nominate myself to fill the causal Vacancy position of? President for LUV, and therefore take on the responsibility for the president's mailbox, and the responsibility for completing/delegating out the other tasks that have been discussed that needs seeing too. >> >> >> Luke Attard >> >> _______________________________________________ >> luv-main mailing list -- luv-main at luv.asn.au >> To unsubscribe send an email to luv-main-leave at luv.asn.au > >?Luke ; this the problem and your solution to it, is the best suggestion to date (my opinions are not humble :-)); > >regards Rohan McLeod >_______________________________________________ >luv-main mailing list -- luv-main at luv.asn.au >To unsubscribe send an email to luv-main-leave at luv.asn.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rhn at cuft.com.au Sun Jul 10 11:23:36 2022 From: rhn at cuft.com.au (Rohan McLeod) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 11:23:36 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Nomination to fill the causal vacancy - President for LUV In-Reply-To: <287ac4ad-b86c-6e22-d5ed-058e96522cb1@rapiddata.com.au> References: <287ac4ad-b86c-6e22-d5ed-058e96522cb1@rapiddata.com.au> Message-ID: <99c9e072-d4cc-f9be-87d4-0748fd966fd8@cuft.com.au> Luke Attard via luv-main wrote: > LUV Members, > > Over the last few days there has been a discussion regarding the LUV > President mail box, and the need to have this checked/cleared > regularly.? There has been a couple of volunteers from outside of > Victoria, and thank you to those people for offering to help. > > I always believe it is better to fix a problem in full if possible, > rather then doing a band-aid fix and kicking the can down the road.? > Therefore I purpose we fix the main problem, being that there is no a > President for LUV, and by sounds of it the position has been vacant > for some time. > > Being a linux user for over 20 years, I have wanted to get more > involved for some time now, and I have the time available to give the > position the attention it needs. Happy to give more of a profile and > rundown of my experience if anyone wants it. > > ?I formally nominate myself to fill the causal Vacancy position of? > President for LUV, and therefore take on the responsibility for the > president's mailbox, and the responsibility for completing/delegating > out the other tasks that have been discussed that needs seeing too. > > > Luke Attard > > _______________________________________________ > luv-main mailing list -- luv-main at luv.asn.au > To unsubscribe send an email to luv-main-leave at luv.asn.au ?Luke ; this the problem and your solution to it, is the best suggestion to date (my opinions are not humble :-)); regards Rohan McLeod From joel at addison.net.au Sun Jul 10 18:33:46 2022 From: joel at addison.net.au (Joel Addison) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 18:33:46 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Nomination to fill the causal vacancy - President for LUV In-Reply-To: <8636180.VV5PYv0bhD@xev> References: <287ac4ad-b86c-6e22-d5ed-058e96522cb1@rapiddata.com.au> <87let1sljm.fsf@canidae.wired.pri> <3586abc7-8f33-dc28-dc99-270f1720427e@rapiddata.com.au> <8636180.VV5PYv0bhD@xev> Message-ID: <6D93EF2A-3699-4E1E-832F-F79A38381AE5@addison.net.au> Hi everyone, Linux Australia generally leaves subcommittees such as LUV to continue running their group as they determine, and as such they will generally keep having meetings and electing their own committee. There are some requirements for subcommittees to follow, outlined in our Subcommittee Policy (https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/blob/master/subcommittee_policy_v3.md ). For the purposes of this discussion, the main thing is to have contacts registered with LA so we can talk to them when required, and to have two signatories in place for bank account access (if the subcommittee has a bank account, which LUV does). The Linux Australia Council will work with LUV to make sure there is a committee in place that is able to meet the expectations we have, and to ensure they continue to provide a local user group that people in Victoria can participate in. I will note that we still have active contacts for LUV. We will also work with them on domains and mailing lists, as appropriate. At this point I would ask that discussion on this matter comes to an end on the Linux Australia mailing list. This is not something that all LA mailing list members need to be a part of, and is best suited on a more specific list such as the LUV mailing lists. Regards, Joel Addison President Linux Australia president at linux.org.au http://linux.org.au Linux Australia Inc GPO Box 4788 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia Limited Liability (NSW) Y2998126 ABN 56 987 117 479 ARBN 618 108 544 > On 10 Jul 2022, at 17:33, Russell Coker via linux-aus wrote: > > On Sunday, 10 July 2022 15:37:54 AEST Luke Attard via linux-aus wrote: >> I have been on boards, and committees many times in the past, one thing >> I have learned, is to always read the constitution and by-laws before >> sending out anything. LUV is a subcommittee of Linux Australia, >> therefore the need for a AGM to appoint a "President" or any role for >> that matter is not required, Linux Australia Committee may appoint (and >> remove) members of a subcommittee as they see fit. > > True. But after becoming a subcommittee LUV had continued to have AGMs and > the general agreement was that it would continue to do so. However one could > argue that by having no AGMs since before Covid19 that agreement was broken. > >> People on committees, can get burned out, or have events in life that >> takes their attention away form the organisation. It is not surprising >> with Covid and everything else going on, that an a few subcommittees >> have been left without active members. I am willing, have the time and >> I am able to jump in, keep the organisation going, and hopefully inject >> some life back into it. I will at least get the monthly meetings running >> again, tidy up the site, and other tasks that need doing, and I am sure >> we will see people coming back, and activity leads to more activity. > > That sounds positive. > >> If any of the previous committee members situations change again, and >> they have the time and desire to help out again, I will be the first to >> welcome them. However in the absence of any such members, the Linux >> Australia Constitution allows for new appointments to ensure the >> subcommittee keeps going, and I for one do not see a negative. One of >> my tasks would be to organise a AGM for Jan, in line with Linux >> Australia, even perhaps to run on the same day, directly after the Linux >> Australia AGM to hopefully encourage a higher attendance. > > Sounds reasonable. > >> Happy to answer any questions, and to hear any ideas. I live in >> Melbourne, I a member of LUV now, and therefore Russell's email has >> worked even better, in my view, then he had intended. > > Great! > > -- > My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ > My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From treasurer at linux.org.au Sun Jul 10 19:05:08 2022 From: treasurer at linux.org.au (Russell Stuart) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 19:05:08 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Nomination to fill the causal vacancy - President for LUV In-Reply-To: <8636180.VV5PYv0bhD@xev> References: <287ac4ad-b86c-6e22-d5ed-058e96522cb1@rapiddata.com.au> <87let1sljm.fsf@canidae.wired.pri> <3586abc7-8f33-dc28-dc99-270f1720427e@rapiddata.com.au> <8636180.VV5PYv0bhD@xev> Message-ID: <05d49dbe-4e0a-1f0a-d10d-46008daa3c1a@linux.org.au> On 10/7/22 17:33, Russell Coker via linux-aus wrote: > True. But after becoming a subcommittee LUV had continued to have > AGMs and the general agreement was that it would continue to do so. > However one could argue that by having no AGMs since before Covid19 > that agreement was broken. For clarity, Becoming a Linux Australia subcommittee doesn't change much operational wise. The Linux Australia Executive doesn't want to be in the business of running LUG or other groups, and speaking for myself don't have to time to do so. So LA's subcommittee policy requires a subcommittee still has all the organisational structure a they would normally have operating outside of LA. It's needs a executive, (president, secretary, treasurer), and fair and open way of electing them which is documented somewhere (typically in a constitution), and have at least one regular meeting each year. This "subcommittee" thing is a service to all open source groups, not just LUG's. A subcommittee can gets more than a few things out of it such as a bank account, public liability insurance, proper accounting records and tax. That can save them some work. If a group of you are banding together for open source project/conference/club, and want a bank account, or need insurance, or free VM or a mailing list, then taking advantage of this is probably going to save you effort. There is a trade-off: subcommittees get access to these things because legally they are operating as Linux Australia, which also means they must operate in accordance to LA's policies and constitution. But in reality LA does little active monitoring beyond asking for an annual report and insisting finance and accounting follows some well defined procedures. So although in principle the LA exec is the peak body governing all subcommittees, no governing it likely to happen unless there is a complaint or bad publicity. -- Russell Stuart Treasurer, Linux Australia From noel.butler at ausics.net Sun Jul 10 19:40:34 2022 From: noel.butler at ausics.net (Noel Butler) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 19:40:34 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Nomination to fill the causal vacancy - President for LUV In-Reply-To: <3586abc7-8f33-dc28-dc99-270f1720427e@rapiddata.com.au> References: <287ac4ad-b86c-6e22-d5ed-058e96522cb1@rapiddata.com.au> <6402996.G0QQBjFxQf@xev> <87let1sljm.fsf@canidae.wired.pri> <3586abc7-8f33-dc28-dc99-270f1720427e@rapiddata.com.au> Message-ID: <6ed812920d5bc4b311c1366aeddbf6d0@ausics.net> On 10/07/2022 15:37, Luke Attard via linux-aus wrote: > I am happy if the title was "systemd" for all I care. You're happy for a linux destroying virus to have that title? ... brave... very brave. -- Regards, Noel Butler This Email, including attachments, may contain legally privileged information, therefore at all times remains confidential and subject to copyright protected under international law. You may not disseminate this message without the authors express written authority to do so. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender then delete all copies of this message including attachments immediately. Confidentiality, copyright, and legal privilege are not waived or lost by reason of the mistaken delivery of this message. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at donnellan.id.au Tue Jul 26 14:35:35 2022 From: andrew at donnellan.id.au (Andrew Donnellan) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2022 14:35:35 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] LCA 2023 ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Joel, On Mon, 13 Jun 2022 at 20:56, Joel Addison via linux-aus < linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > The Linux Australia Council has been discussing this over the past few > months to determine what should happen next year. We have not got all the > details sorted as yet, but we should have an announcement in the next few > weeks. > I haven't seen any further announcements - has there been any further progress on this? Andrew -- Andrew Donnellan http://andrew.donnellan.id.au andrew at donnellan.id.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kathy at kathyreid.id.au Sat Jul 30 20:32:26 2022 From: kathy at kathyreid.id.au (Kathy Reid) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 20:32:26 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] LCA 2023 ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <07382cda-01e6-e5a2-9977-a80f9cb00b68@kathyreid.id.au> Hi everyone, One of the things I'm observing here is people wanting news on future open source events from Linux Australia. What I am *not* observing are folks putting up their hands to volunteer to help run those events. We've seen PyconAU 2022 not go ahead (quite rightly) to ensure sustainability and prevent (further) volunteer burnout. OSDC was last held in 2015 (fantastic event by the way, thanks Morgan and Tim and team), for similar reasons. Having been involved in running a few* open source events now, they happen in one of a few ways (think of this as a rough typography of open source events): The first is where a dedicated, volunteer team develops and unites around a vision, pulls together, overcomes obstacles, floods (looking at you Brisvegas, and Gold Coast, and oh, G-town), norovirus (kia ora, Dunedin), bushfire reconstruction delaying the opening of Penguin Dinner venues (Yama, Canberra), airport buses not showing (hey Ballarat), and always manages to deliver a memorable experience for hundreds of delegates. The costs are generally low, because the event relies on volunteer labour - which is essentially offsetting the labour cost of the event. The second is where event management professionals are engaged to run part or all of the event, necessitating increased costs. Those paid professionals may be in areas such as event management, audio visual, sponsor engagement, communications and marketing and so on. The third is where a commercial enterprise that has an interest in engaging the open source community runs an event. These can be either free or low-cost, with the downside that the content is usually sponsor-flavoured or heavily skewed to the company's interest in putting on the event - think "make X easier with our product Y" or "Hero TM stories featuring our product Y but not explicitly referencing our product Y". If they are higher cost, then the aim of the company is to derive a profit from the event. The event is a profit generation mechanism. Sometimes they can be both - sponsor-flavoured and profit-generating. Linux Aus events (LCA, PyConAU, OSDC back in the day, GovHack for a couple years, HealthHack, a few BarCamps and such) have tended to move from type 1 to type 2 as they have grown in size and complexity, but I think are definitely not in type 3 territory. Sure, there are often profits from LA events, but they go back into a) the event itself with b) 6% going to LA to cover things like insurance and filing taxes and adminis-not-trivia. Even if events run as type 2 events - with lots of professionally-paid skills on board, they still require type 1 event volunteers to set direction and take ownership of the event. Without this, events are type 3 events - where the event is run as a commercial endeavour. My point is this - LCA, PyConAU and similar events simply don't run if we don't have volunteers to run them. And if the events weren't fun, or worthwhile, or high value, we wouldn't have people missing them. In a perverse way, it's a good thing that we're missing LCA and PyConAU - because it's highlighted the invisible labour, the taken-for-granted volunteers and the thousands of hours of time and passion that go into these events. We've gotten comfortable expecting an LCA every January or a PyConAU every September. Because the work of delivering them has been hidden - behind maturity, behind dedicated people, behind better processes and systems and technology and communications. Without that passion, that time, that labour, these events don't happen. So, if you want an open source event to happen in 2023, you know what to do. Patches welcome. Kind regards, Kathy Reid * BarCamp Geelong 2011, LCA 2012, GovHack Geelong 2015 & 2016, LCA2016, and a bunch of years on LA Council > > I haven't seen any further announcements - has there been any further > progress on this? > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From simon at darkmere.gen.nz Sat Jul 30 20:46:26 2022 From: simon at darkmere.gen.nz (Simon Lyall) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 22:46:26 +1200 (NZST) Subject: [Linux-aus] LCA 2023 ? In-Reply-To: <07382cda-01e6-e5a2-9977-a80f9cb00b68@kathyreid.id.au> References: <07382cda-01e6-e5a2-9977-a80f9cb00b68@kathyreid.id.au> Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Jul 2022, Kathy Reid via linux-aus wrote: > Without that passion, that time, that labour, these events don't happen. > So, if you want an open source event to happen in 2023, you know what to > do. Patches welcome. The problem is that a few weeks ago Joel Addison was tell us an announcement was imminent. For all most people on the list know this could be a full in-person LCA in January 2023. It's a bit hard to send patches when the source code hasn't been released. -- Simon Lyall | Very Busy | Web: http://www.simonlyall.com/ "To stay awake all night adds a day to your life" - Stilgar From david_crosswell at telaman.net.au Sat Jul 30 20:50:55 2022 From: david_crosswell at telaman.net.au (David) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 20:50:55 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] LCA 2023 ? In-Reply-To: <07382cda-01e6-e5a2-9977-a80f9cb00b68@kathyreid.id.au> References: <07382cda-01e6-e5a2-9977-a80f9cb00b68@kathyreid.id.au> Message-ID: <20220730205055.636d092d.david_crosswell@telaman.net.au> On Sat, 30 Jul 2022 20:32:26 +1000 Kathy Reid via linux-aus wrote: > Hi everyone, Hullo, yourself! > One of the things I'm observing here is people wanting news on future > open source events from Linux Australia. What I am *not* observing are > folks putting up their hands to volunteer to help run those events. > We've seen PyconAU 2022 not go ahead (quite rightly) to ensure > sustainability and prevent (further) volunteer burnout. OSDC was last > held in 2015 (fantastic event by the way, thanks Morgan and Tim and > team), for similar reasons. People might have their reasons for this. For example, I know a bloke who lives in the desert, 1000 Kms west of Brisbane and, if he's not there, he's in Russia, China, or India (among other destinations). He's only ever managed to get to just one open source event - the Gold Coast. > Having been involved in running a few* open source events now, they > happen in one of a few ways (think of this as a rough typography of open > source events): > > The first is where a dedicated, volunteer team develops and unites > around a vision, pulls together, overcomes obstacles, floods (looking at > you Brisvegas, and Gold Coast, and oh, G-town), norovirus (kia ora, > Dunedin), bushfire reconstruction delaying the opening of Penguin Dinner > venues (Yama, Canberra), airport buses not showing (hey Ballarat), and > always manages to deliver a memorable experience for hundreds of > delegates. The costs are generally low, because the event relies on > volunteer labour - which is essentially offsetting the labour cost of > the event. > > The second is where event management professionals are engaged to run > part or all of the event, necessitating increased costs. Those paid > professionals may be in areas such as event management, audio visual, > sponsor engagement, communications and marketing and so on. > > The third is where a commercial enterprise that has an interest in > engaging the open source community runs an event. These can be either > free or low-cost, with the downside that the content is usually > sponsor-flavoured or heavily skewed to the company's interest in putting > on the event - think "make X easier with our product Y" or "Hero TM > stories featuring our product Y but not explicitly referencing our > product Y". If they are higher cost, then the aim of the company is to > derive a profit from the event. The event is a profit generation > mechanism. Sometimes they can be both - sponsor-flavoured and > profit-generating. > > Linux Aus events (LCA, PyConAU, OSDC back in the day, GovHack for a > couple years, HealthHack, a few BarCamps and such) have tended to move > from type 1 to type 2 as they have grown in size and complexity, but I > think are definitely not in type 3 territory. Sure, there are often > profits from LA events, but they go back into a) the event itself with > b) 6% going to LA to cover things like insurance and filing taxes and > adminis-not-trivia. > > Even if events run as type 2 events - with lots of professionally-paid > skills on board, they still require type 1 event volunteers to set > direction and take ownership of the event. Without this, events are type > 3 events - where the event is run as a commercial endeavour. > > My point is this - LCA, PyConAU and similar events simply don't run if > we don't have volunteers to run them. And if the events weren't fun, or > worthwhile, or high value, we wouldn't have people missing them. In a > perverse way, it's a good thing that we're missing LCA and PyConAU - > because it's highlighted the invisible labour, the taken-for-granted > volunteers and the thousands of hours of time and passion that go into > these events. We've gotten comfortable expecting an LCA every January or > a PyConAU every September. Because the work of delivering them has been > hidden - behind maturity, behind dedicated people, behind better > processes and systems and technology and communications. > > Without that passion, that time, that labour, these events don't happen. > So, if you want an open source event to happen in 2023, you know what to > do. Patches welcome. O.K., here's one. Volunteers will always be necessary, but the rest of it isn't. It almost happened during the pandemic. In an environment as geographically diverse as Australia, with people 1000s of kms apart, nobody has clicked on to running virtual summits/conferences. We have the software and know how, yet somehow the logical medium never happens. The F2F aspect is nice to have every now and again, but it doesn't need to be every time. If we had five years to organise one of those, it would be an event worth going to. Perhaps Porcupine Tree playing the main stage? Even kinder regards, -- David Crosswell P.O. Box 477 100 Edward Street, Charleville 4470 Queensland Australia david_crosswell at telaman.net.au https://www.telaman.net.au/ From kathy at kathyreid.id.au Sat Jul 30 20:52:13 2022 From: kathy at kathyreid.id.au (Kathy Reid) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 20:52:13 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] LCA 2023 ? In-Reply-To: References: <07382cda-01e6-e5a2-9977-a80f9cb00b68@kathyreid.id.au> Message-ID: <34731b98-6e72-551f-88fd-cebe89fa4ef7@kathyreid.id.au> I can't possibly imagine what the hold up might be with so many dedicated volunteers helping Joel ... > The problem is that a few weeks ago Joel Addison was tell us an > announcement was imminent. For all most people on the list know this > could be a full in-person LCA in January 2023. > > It's a bit hard to send patches when the source code hasn't been > released. > From simon at darkmere.gen.nz Sat Jul 30 21:03:03 2022 From: simon at darkmere.gen.nz (Simon Lyall) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 23:03:03 +1200 (NZST) Subject: [Linux-aus] LCA 2023 ? In-Reply-To: <34731b98-6e72-551f-88fd-cebe89fa4ef7@kathyreid.id.au> References: <07382cda-01e6-e5a2-9977-a80f9cb00b68@kathyreid.id.au> <34731b98-6e72-551f-88fd-cebe89fa4ef7@kathyreid.id.au> Message-ID: Joel sounded like he had all the people he needed: "We need to make sure all aspects of the event are in place before making announcements to give certainty to all those involved and all potential attendees, so as with any other year we will make sure this is all prepared prior to making the details public." - Joel - 13 June 2022 On Sat, 30 Jul 2022, Kathy Reid via linux-aus wrote: > I can't possibly imagine what the hold up might be with so many dedicated > volunteers helping Joel ... > >> The problem is that a few weeks ago Joel Addison was tell us an >> announcement was imminent. For all most people on the list know this >> could be a full in-person LCA in January 2023. >> >> It's a bit hard to send patches when the source code hasn't been >> released. >> > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au > -- Simon Lyall | Very Busy | Web: http://www.simonlyall.com/ "To stay awake all night adds a day to your life" - Stilgar From paulway at mabula.net Sat Jul 30 21:10:14 2022 From: paulway at mabula.net (Paul Wayper) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 21:10:14 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] LCA 2023 ? In-Reply-To: <34731b98-6e72-551f-88fd-cebe89fa4ef7@kathyreid.id.au> References: <07382cda-01e6-e5a2-9977-a80f9cb00b68@kathyreid.id.au> <34731b98-6e72-551f-88fd-cebe89fa4ef7@kathyreid.id.au> Message-ID: On 30/7/22 8:52 pm, Kathy Reid via linux-aus wrote: > I can't possibly imagine what the hold up might be with so many dedicated > volunteers helping Joel ... Sarcasm?? Kathy, I don't know what's going on there but you're sounding very aggressive about this.? I don't think you should be attacking us. We haven't even seen an announcement that LCA 2023 needed volunteers.? There hasn't even been an announcement that there was a bid, or a team, or that it was even on.? I really have no idea, therefore, how you expect the Open Source community in Australia to have deduced that they needed to volunteer for anything, much less that it was Joel that they should be applying to. I totally understand your frustration.? Volunteers are hard to come by.? It hasn't helped that we've had a pandemic that has sent us away from our regular in-person meetings - which is where we get those communities and friendship networks that can be drawn on to put together a team to run something like LCA.? As someone who was on the team to run LCA 2021 - before Linux Australia decided that it would run LCA 2021 itself - and who was on a team who put a bid in to run LCA in 2022, I totally get how hard it is to get people to really commit to the full work of the LCA committee.? I was on the LCA 2013 team, so I know how hard that work can be. But ... I'm with Andrew here.? Joel said he'd make an announcement, we're just waiting for it.? I'm with Simon here. Joel did not ask for volunteers on 13th June; he made it sound like he had everything in hand. If Joel needs volunteers, Joel has only to ask the community.? He can do that in public - on the LA email list for example.? He can do that in private.? He can do it any way he wants to. But I think you do the charity and community spirit of the Open Source community in Australia a disservice by upbraiding it on not volunteering to help an LCA we haven't heard of and have not been asked to help on. Hope this helps, Paul -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From russell at coker.com.au Sat Jul 30 21:48:40 2022 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 21:48:40 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] LCA 2023 ? In-Reply-To: <20220730205055.636d092d.david_crosswell@telaman.net.au> References: <07382cda-01e6-e5a2-9977-a80f9cb00b68@kathyreid.id.au> <20220730205055.636d092d.david_crosswell@telaman.net.au> Message-ID: <1990732.kUgFBCI4xA@xev> On Saturday, 30 July 2022 20:50:55 AEST David via linux-aus wrote: > In an environment as geographically diverse as Australia, with people 1000s > of kms apart, nobody has clicked on to running virtual summits/conferences. > We have the software and know how, yet somehow the logical medium never > happens. https://flounder.linux.org.au/events/ It seems hard to get people interested in virtual events. Due to the decline of face to face meetings (due to the pandemic and due to the fact that we have to compete with watching YouTube at home) I started a new group Flounder. I had expected that with an area covering Australia, New Zealand, and surroundings we would soon have 100+ people attending regularly and lots of offers of talks. Unfortunately it hasn't been as successful as hoped with typically about a dozen people. We have had some quality lectures with content presented by experts. The people who attend all have fun and learn useful things. But we haven't been able to get more people. If you have any suggestions on how to improve this situation then please let me know. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From andrew at donnellan.id.au Sat Jul 30 22:17:03 2022 From: andrew at donnellan.id.au (Andrew Donnellan) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 22:17:03 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] LCA 2023 ? In-Reply-To: <07382cda-01e6-e5a2-9977-a80f9cb00b68@kathyreid.id.au> References: <07382cda-01e6-e5a2-9977-a80f9cb00b68@kathyreid.id.au> Message-ID: Hi Kathy, On Sat, 30 Jul 2022 at 20:32, Kathy Reid via linux-aus < linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > My point is this - LCA, PyConAU and similar events simply don't run if we > don't have volunteers to run them. And if the events weren't fun, or > worthwhile, or high value, we wouldn't have people missing them. In a > perverse way, it's a good thing that we're missing LCA and PyConAU - > because it's highlighted the invisible labour, the taken-for-granted > volunteers and the thousands of hours of time and passion that go into > these events. We've gotten comfortable expecting an LCA every January or a > PyConAU every September. Because the work of delivering them has been > hidden - behind maturity, behind dedicated people, behind better processes > and systems and technology and communications. > > Without that passion, that time, that labour, these events don't happen. > So, if you want an open source event to happen in 2023, you know what to > do. Patches welcome. > I absolutely appreciate all of these points, as someone who personally saw through a series of fully volunteer-run conferences from 2013-16 from initial conception through to making the final call to dissolve our association and archive the website - for precisely the reason you described: we determined that we had no sustainable pipeline of volunteers. I spent many, many hours doing just about everything - running a CFP, calling insurance brokers, filling out tax paperwork, handling travel bookings for speakers, packing bags with conference shirts... (and so I also understand why people *don't* volunteer!) I have seen just the tiniest glimpse into the enormous effort that is organising an LCA after running a miniconf for 6 years - I would personally love to help out LCA more, but unfortunately being a miniconf organiser is currently the upper bound of my ability to contribute to LCA given my role on the committees of two other non-profits (that, just like LA, are struggling immensely to recruit volunteers). The specific motivation behind my question was to get a bit of clarity as to whether I might end up running a miniconf again at LCA2023, whether I should start sounding out some contacts who may be interested in submitting miniconf talks, and a potential sponsorship opportunity I'm looking at. I appreciate your point that Joel is also very busy and has a lot to do, and with the benefit of hindsight my last email should have been less curt and a bit more respectful. Joel's last email did suggest that some decisions and announcements are in the pipeline and I'm eager to hear what they are - whether it be a regular LCA, an online event, or a decision to take a break and reset ourselves for 2024 (a very reasonable choice!). Andrew -- Andrew Donnellan http://andrew.donnellan.id.au andrew at donnellan.id.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: