From a.nielsen at shikadi.net Wed Sep 1 01:09:52 2021 From: a.nielsen at shikadi.net (Adam Nielsen) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2021 01:09:52 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] this list In-Reply-To: <2548892.hIFruQV7Wq@xev> References: <2548892.hIFruQV7Wq@xev> Message-ID: <20210901010952.1793a278@vorticon> > Past discussions here have had a conclusion that using this list for general > Linux support is OK. But the majority of traffic here isn't about that which > will be a disincentive to people asking such questions. > > Should we have a separate list for Linux support in Australia to be welcoming > to such queries? Personally while I don't mind the odd support question, I'd probably unsubscribe if the list became support heavy, and I wouldn't subscribe to a new support list. I'm already on specific lists for things I'm interested in (usually the app's own support list) and for OS level stuff I use the web forums provided by the distros I use. Stack Exchange might not be open source but at least the user content is Creative Commons so I have no issue using that as one of many other alternatives. The problem with having a support list with as generic a subject as "Linux" means you'll end up with questions about distros you know nothing about, programs you would never use, problems you can't help with, etc. so you'll just end up with a lot of noise. Good mailing lists have a very narrow focus to keep the content relevant to all subscribers, otherwise you risk people unsubscribing because there are too many messages they find irrelevant - case in point, all the Python conference announcements that were posted here for a while until we asked them to keep it down to one or two messages each season as they were only relevant to a small minority of the list. To be clear, I don't want to discourage you from improving things, I'm just offering a different viewpoint that might help explain some of the silence in response to the proposals. > I received more replies to my message about hands-on training from the luv- > main list than this list in spite of this list having more than twice as many > subscribers. Does that mean this list isn't reaching the sort of people who > want to learn about how to configure Postfix etc and is mostly about the sort > of people who are interested in LCA CFPs? That isn't a bad thing, but if so > then we probably need a separate list for the people who aren't planning to > present at LCA. For the record, I'm on this list because it's the only place I hear about larger, often political issues affecting Linux and the free software ecosystem in general, usually specific to Australia, such as the recent messages about upcoming changes to the right-to-repair laws that may change the way we use embedded Linux in appliances. I'm less interested in the LCA CFPs. And I already run Exim :) > Finally we have the lugcomms list which we tried to resurrect months ago. One > possibility would be to repurpose that list for announcements to general LUG > members which members of each of the LUGs could forward to their groups by > whatever method is most appropriate. I know little of these LUGs you speak of except that you mention LUV a lot, which I assume is one of them. (My point being maybe a reminder is due for the benefit of new members and those such as myself who have forgotten.) Cheers, Adam. From heracles1108 at gmail.com Wed Sep 1 12:37:35 2021 From: heracles1108 at gmail.com (Ashley) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2021 12:37:35 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] this list In-Reply-To: <20210901010952.1793a278@vorticon> References: <2548892.hIFruQV7Wq@xev> <20210901010952.1793a278@vorticon> Message-ID: On 1/9/21 1:09 am, Adam Nielsen via linux-aus wrote: >> Past discussions here have had a conclusion that using this list for general >> Linux support is OK. But the majority of traffic here isn't about that which >> will be a disincentive to people asking such questions. >> >> Should we have a separate list for Linux support in Australia to be welcoming >> to such queries? > Personally while I don't mind the odd support question, I'd probably > unsubscribe if the list became support heavy, and I wouldn't subscribe > to a new support list. I'm already on specific lists for things I'm > interested in (usually the app's own support list) and for OS level > stuff I use the web forums provided by the distros I use. Stack > Exchange might not be open source but at least the user content is > Creative Commons so I have no issue using that as one of many other > alternatives. > > > Cheers, > Adam. I would like to make a comment that may be irrelevant but: When I originally joined SLUG in the late 90s we had a list that was very active and useful. Many members asked questions related to the linux OS and replies came from many other members. At this time the group was member focused. It was populated with users and developers. We all helped each other. Now that we are members of Linux Australia the user focus has disappeared and it seems to have become a System Admin group. I know sys admin and politics are important areas but surely there is room for the users/amateur programmers/testers in the organisation. Stay well and happy Heracles From simon at darkmere.gen.nz Wed Sep 1 20:23:55 2021 From: simon at darkmere.gen.nz (Simon Lyall) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2021 22:23:55 +1200 (NZST) Subject: [Linux-aus] CFP for Sysadmin Miniconf closing soon Message-ID: Just a reminder that the Sysadmin Miniconf CFP along with the other Linux.conf.au CFPs expires in just a few days on Sunday September 5th. Please get you submission in soon. The original CFP email is below with more details and links ---- The Call for Proposals is now up for the Sysadmin Miniconf at Linux.conf.au 2022, Online the 14th of January 2022. We are looking for 30 minute long Operations-related talks. We'd particularly love your War Stories about responding to the global pandemic and general work for home, or how you avoided earning war stories. The good news is that all talks accepted to the Miniconf get a free ticket for the whole of the conference! The bad news is that the CFP closes in just over 3 weeks from now on September 5th. So don't delay getting your proposal in! See our long CFP for more details: https://sysadmin.miniconf.org/cfp22.html Or Register and Login the the Conference dashboard to submit a proposal: https://linux.conf.au/dashboard -- Simon Lyall | Very Busy | Web: http://www.simonlyall.com/ "To stay awake all night adds a day to your life" - Stilgar _______________________________________________ linux-aus mailing list linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au From karl at kgoetz.id.au Wed Sep 1 20:14:32 2021 From: karl at kgoetz.id.au (Karl Goetz) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2021 20:14:32 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] this list In-Reply-To: References: <2548892.hIFruQV7Wq@xev> <20210901010952.1793a278@vorticon> Message-ID: <6ab35a79-85e5-96cd-103f-508eb7d5e578@kgoetz.id.au> On 1/9/21 12:37 pm, Ashley via linux-aus wrote: > > On 1/9/21 1:09 am, Adam Nielsen via linux-aus wrote: >>> Past discussions here have had a conclusion that using this list for >>> general >>> Linux support is OK.? But the majority of traffic here isn't about >>> that which >>> will be a disincentive to people asking such questions. >>> >>> Should we have a separate list for Linux support in Australia to be >>> welcoming >>> to such queries? >> Personally while I don't mind the odd support question, I'd probably >> unsubscribe if the list became support heavy, and I wouldn't subscribe >> to a new support list.? I'm already on specific lists for things I'm >> interested in (usually the app's own support list) and for OS level >> stuff I use the web forums provided by the distros I use.? Stack >> Exchange might not be open source but at least the user content is >> Creative Commons so I have no issue using that as one of many other >> alternatives. >> >> >> Cheers, >> Adam. > > I would like to make a comment that may be irrelevant but: > > When I originally joined SLUG in the late 90s we had a list that was > very active and useful. Many members asked questions related to the > linux OS and replies came from many other members. At this time the > group was member focused. It was populated with users and developers. We > all helped each other. Now that we are members of Linux Australia the > user focus has disappeared and it seems to have become a System Admin > group. I know sys admin and politics are important areas but surely > there is room for the users/amateur programmers/testers in the > organisation. If the LA lists are anything like the other communities I'm involved in its not that the sysadmins came and squeezed everyone else out, "rather everyone" else left to find more specialised places to ask their questions (which I believe is consistent with Adams text above). thanks, kk PS. That said, I am aware that more specialised groups for sysadmins like SAGE-AU and AUUG effectively disappeared so there is probably more to this story than I've given credit for above. From david_crosswell at telaman.net.au Thu Sep 2 06:52:12 2021 From: david_crosswell at telaman.net.au (David) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2021 06:52:12 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] this list In-Reply-To: <6ab35a79-85e5-96cd-103f-508eb7d5e578@kgoetz.id.au> References: <2548892.hIFruQV7Wq@xev> <20210901010952.1793a278@vorticon> <6ab35a79-85e5-96cd-103f-508eb7d5e578@kgoetz.id.au> Message-ID: <20210902065212.61fd0f09.david_crosswell@telaman.net.au> On Wed, 1 Sep 2021 20:14:32 +1000 Karl Goetz via linux-aus wrote: > On 1/9/21 12:37 pm, Ashley via linux-aus wrote: > > > > On 1/9/21 1:09 am, Adam Nielsen via linux-aus wrote: > >>> Past discussions here have had a conclusion that using this list for > >>> general > >>> Linux support is OK.? But the majority of traffic here isn't about > >>> that which > >>> will be a disincentive to people asking such questions. > >>> > >>> Should we have a separate list for Linux support in Australia to be > >>> welcoming > >>> to such queries? > >> Personally while I don't mind the odd support question, I'd probably > >> unsubscribe if the list became support heavy, and I wouldn't subscribe > >> to a new support list.? I'm already on specific lists for things I'm > >> interested in (usually the app's own support list) and for OS level > >> stuff I use the web forums provided by the distros I use.? Stack > >> Exchange might not be open source but at least the user content is > >> Creative Commons so I have no issue using that as one of many other > >> alternatives. > >> > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Adam. > > > > I would like to make a comment that may be irrelevant but: > > > > When I originally joined SLUG in the late 90s we had a list that was > > very active and useful. Many members asked questions related to the > > linux OS and replies came from many other members. At this time the > > group was member focused. It was populated with users and developers. We > > all helped each other. Now that we are members of Linux Australia the > > user focus has disappeared and it seems to have become a System Admin > > group. I know sys admin and politics are important areas but surely > > there is room for the users/amateur programmers/testers in the > > organisation. > > If the LA lists are anything like the other communities I'm involved in > its not that the sysadmins came and squeezed everyone else out, "rather > everyone" else left to find more specialised places to ask their > questions (which I believe is consistent with Adams text above). Yes, that will definitely be part of it. For me, for example, lists like debian-user, and OpenBSD, FreeBSD, and DragonflyBSD, Bluefish, et al, are more specific in what I'm looking for. But, there are other reasons. I was once a member of SageAU and a couple of other organisations and they all banded together, at one stage, for some common, inoffensive cause, but advertised they would not be involved in advocacy to any degree. Consequently, my membership lapsed in all of them. I don't think I was alone. What's the use of an organisation that is not prepared to advocate on behalf of its members? This standing in the background, quietly and compliantly wibbling away in the hope of potential future government funding, perhaps, doesn't cut it! So, like many others, I just hang off the edges of the communities, these days, just to keep an eye on what's happening. Lack of involvement doesn't earn involvement. Cheers! > thanks, > kk > > PS. > That said, I am aware that more specialised groups for sysadmins like > SAGE-AU and AUUG effectively disappeared so there is probably more to > this story than I've given credit for above. > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au From shirro at shirro.com Thu Sep 2 12:52:45 2021 From: shirro at shirro.com (Paul Shirren) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2021 12:22:45 +0930 Subject: [Linux-aus] this list In-Reply-To: <2548892.hIFruQV7Wq@xev> References: <2548892.hIFruQV7Wq@xev> Message-ID: On Tue, 2021-08-31 at 15:46 +1000, Russell Coker via linux-aus wrote: > > Should we have a separate list for Linux support in Australia to be > welcoming > to such queries? Having enough traffic to split a mailing list would be a nice problem to have these days. The best way to assist the extremely rare lost person who somehow stumbles onto the main list is to cheerfully point them in the direction of useful resources or help them off list rather than throw list policy at them. Those enquiries are not currently a problem and I can't see them growing to become a problem.? If there is some sort of activity going on that it is anticipated will generate lots of activity like training then they probably do need their own separate?forum but I don't know if mailing lists can compete with the alternatives. If anyone has the access and time to add more mailing lists they might want to reap some of the old inactive ones while they are there. I would aim to kill 2 for every new one added. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From president at linux.org.au Thu Sep 2 22:17:47 2021 From: president at linux.org.au (President, Linux Australia - Sae Ra Germaine) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2021 22:17:47 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Community Update: a small reminder. linux.conf.au 2022 Call for Sessions open + Extended Message-ID: <9d705279-1f5a-2e40-f8c8-6a3a3d11c079@linux.org.au> **apologies for cross-posting** TL;DR: Submit your talks for LCA2022 - pretty please! Dear Community, It?s been a very long time between emails. You may or may not have seen emails and alerts on social media going around about our wonderful conference linux.conf.au 2022. Following the success that we had in January with LCA2021, we thought we would try it again. But?. sadly the call for sessions has now been open for 2 weeks and we unfortunately don?t have enough sessions to fill the entire 3 days. Excitedly though, we have plenty of keynotes (more info on that to come soon once we have firmly locked them in place ?).? Thank you to those who have already submitted, they are looking fantastic and as it is I would struggle to work out which one I would want to see live the most! I would really love for this conference to go ahead, LCA is what brought me into this community and it is what has convinced me to hang around and contribute back. I know most of us are fatigued by the pandemic and online events, but regardless of Online vs Face-to-face, it was amazing to see everyone and all your wonderful faces and I?d love to do it again. While online isn?t ideal, it?s the best option we've got and we want to make the best of a bad scenario (and not cancel it entirely). So this is a bit of a plea from me. Please submit a talk, join us in January. We have the "venue" sorted, sponsors organised, miniconfs chosen, keynotes ready, now all we need is a wonderful program of sessions for our community to listen and watch. We also have MiniConf specialist tracks focussing on System Administration, Kernel, Open Hardware and GLAM (Galleries, Libraries, Archives & Museums) so submit there as well! Some ideas for session submissions are: * Are you working on a new ground breaking project and want to share the details or launch the code? * Did you give a talk at LCA 10 years ago? How about using the same slides and giving the talk again but this time updating us as to where things got to: did you ditch the project, or did it thrive and become bigger than you expected? * Are you contributing to an Open Source community and you want to share your wisdom with us? Now because I?m sending this out and the call for sessions was due to close this weekend we?ve organised to extend the deadline by an extra week. Our wonderful Session Selection Committee is ready to review submissions from the new deadline of 11:59pm Sunday 12th September (Anywhere on Earth). Submissions can be made from: https://linux.conf.au/programme/proposals/ Also spread the word! If you know someone who is working on or has something interesting to say then recommend that they submit. Looking forward to seeing you all in January, Sae Ra -- Sae Ra Germaine President and linux.conf.au 2022 Session Selection Committee Member Linux Australia president at linux.org.au http://linux.org.au Linux Australia Inc GPO Box 4788 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia ABN 56 987 117 479 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at donnellan.id.au Fri Sep 3 15:02:57 2021 From: andrew at donnellan.id.au (Andrew Donnellan) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2021 15:02:57 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] [CFP] linux.conf.au Online 2022 Kernel Miniconf In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The CFP has been extended to 12 September, 23:59 (Anywhere on Earth), along with the main LCA conference and the other miniconfs. At this point we are still very short on submissions; I would much appreciate if people on this list could share the CFP with any developers, researchers, etc who might be interested in submitting. Full info as always at https://lca-kernel.ozlabs.org/2022-cfp.html Andrew On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 at 14:35, Andrew Donnellan wrote: > The CFP is still open until 5 September, in a week from now - please get > your submissions in and/or suggest it to your kernel-interested friends and > colleagues. > > > Regards > > Andrew > > On Thu, 12 Aug 2021 at 01:21, Andrew Donnellan > wrote: > >> LCA2022 Kernel Miniconf - Online - 2022-01-14 >> --------------------------------------------- >> >> The linux.conf.au 2022 Kernel Miniconf Call for Proposals is now open. >> Start working on your talks! >> >> Date: 2022-01-14 >> Location: The Internet (again) >> Submissions close: 2021-09-05, 23:59 AoE/UTC-12 >> Submissions: https://linux.conf.au/proposals/submit/kernel-miniconf/ >> More info: https://lca-kernel.ozlabs.org/2022-cfp.html >> >> Significant changes from last year: >> - All miniconf speakers are guaranteed a free ticket >> - All talks will be 30 minutes long >> - CFP is now being run at the same time as main conference CFP process: >> if your talk is of broader interest consider submitting to the main >> conference as well >> >> *************************************************************************** >> >> >> linux.conf.au 2022 will be held from 14-16 January 2022. >> >> Due to the ongoing COVID-19-related restrictions on events and travel, >> LCA2022 will once again be held online. (Silver lining is you can speak or >> attend from wherever you are without flying here!) >> >> The Kernel Miniconf is a single-day miniconf track, held on Friday 14 >> January, about everything related to the kernel and low-level systems >> programming. >> >> The Kernel Miniconf invites talks about up-and-coming kernel >> developments, the future direction of the kernel, and kernel development >> community and process matters. Past Kernel Miniconfs have covered topics >> such as memory management, RCU, scheduling, testing/CI and filesystems, as >> well as community and process topics such as licensing, developer >> workflows, safety critical processes, and so on. >> >> We invite submissions on anything related to kernel and low-level systems >> programming. We welcome submissions from developers of all levels of >> experience, and from anyone connected with the kernel whether you are an >> upstream kernel developer, distro maintainer, academic researcher or a >> developer who works further downstream. The focus of the miniconf will >> primarily be on Linux, however non-Linux talks of sufficient interest to a >> primarily Linux audience will be considered. >> >> -- >> Andrew Donnellan >> http://andrew.donnellan.id.au andrew at donnellan.id.au >> > > > -- > Andrew Donnellan > http://andrew.donnellan.id.au andrew at donnellan.id.au > -- Andrew Donnellan http://andrew.donnellan.id.au andrew at donnellan.id.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From president at linux.org.au Wed Sep 8 14:27:18 2021 From: president at linux.org.au (President, Linux Australia - Sae Ra Germaine) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2021 14:27:18 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] [LACTTE] Community Update: a small reminder. linux.conf.au 2022 Call for Sessions open + Extended In-Reply-To: <9d705279-1f5a-2e40-f8c8-6a3a3d11c079@linux.org.au> References: <9d705279-1f5a-2e40-f8c8-6a3a3d11c079@linux.org.au> Message-ID: <1dacfaa8-9e8b-c566-3a6f-9ff7d552f6be@linux.org.au> Hi again everyone, Just a reminder that submissions are due this weekend. We would really like to see those submit numbers go up so we can have a substantial conference program for you to attend. Also, please spread the word to your networks/communities. Thanks, Sae Ra -- Sae Ra Germaine President Linux Australia president at linux.org.au http://linux.org.au Linux Australia Inc GPO Box 4788 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia ABN 56 987 117 479 On 2/09/2021 10:17 pm, President, Linux Australia - Sae Ra Germaine via committee wrote: > > **apologies for cross-posting** TL;DR: Submit your talks for LCA2022 - > pretty please! > > > Dear Community, > > > It?s been a very long time between emails. You may or may not have > seen emails and alerts on social media going around about our > wonderful conference linux.conf.au 2022. Following the success that we > had in January with LCA2021, we thought we would try it again. > > > But?. sadly the call for sessions has now been open for 2 weeks and we > unfortunately don?t have enough sessions to fill the entire 3 days. > Excitedly though, we have plenty of keynotes (more info on that to > come soon once we have firmly locked them in place ?).? Thank you to > those who have already submitted, they are looking fantastic and as it > is I would struggle to work out which one I would want to see live the > most! > > > I would really love for this conference to go ahead, LCA is what > brought me into this community and it is what has convinced me to hang > around and contribute back. I know most of us are fatigued by the > pandemic and online events, but regardless of Online vs Face-to-face, > it was amazing to see everyone and all your wonderful faces and I?d > love to do it again. While online isn?t ideal, it?s the best option > we've got and we want to make the best of a bad scenario (and not > cancel it entirely). > > > So this is a bit of a plea from me. Please submit a talk, join us in > January. We have the "venue" sorted, sponsors organised, miniconfs > chosen, keynotes ready, now all we need is a wonderful program of > sessions for our community to listen and watch. We also have MiniConf > specialist tracks focussing on System Administration, Kernel, Open > Hardware and GLAM (Galleries, Libraries, Archives & Museums) so submit > there as well! > > > Some ideas for session submissions are: > > * > > Are you working on a new ground breaking project and want to share > the details or launch the code? > > * > > Did you give a talk at LCA 10 years ago? How about using the same > slides and giving the talk again but this time updating us as to > where things got to: did you ditch the project, or did it thrive > and become bigger than you expected? > > * > > Are you contributing to an Open Source community and you want to > share your wisdom with us? > > > Now because I?m sending this out and the call for sessions was due to > close this weekend we?ve organised to extend the deadline by an extra > week. Our wonderful Session Selection Committee is ready to review > submissions from the new deadline of 11:59pm Sunday 12th September > (Anywhere on Earth). Submissions can be made from: > https://linux.conf.au/programme/proposals/ > > > > Also spread the word! If you know someone who is working on or has > something interesting to say then recommend that they submit. > > > Looking forward to seeing you all in January, > > > Sae Ra > > -- > Sae Ra Germaine > President and linux.conf.au 2022 Session Selection Committee Member > Linux Australia > > president at linux.org.au > http://linux.org.au > > Linux Australia Inc > GPO Box 4788 > Sydney NSW 2001 > Australia > > ABN 56 987 117 479 > > _______________________________________________ > committee mailing list > committee at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/committee > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > committee-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From russell at coker.com.au Sat Sep 11 21:02:12 2021 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2021 21:02:12 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Fwd: [luv-announce] Brainstorming session for LCA proposals // Tomorrow at 3pm Message-ID: <7573722.aVPaq5GWTT@xev> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: [luv-announce] Brainstorming session for LCA proposals // Tomorrow at 3pm Date: Saturday, 11 September 2021, 15:45:01 AEST From: Alexar Pendashteh via luv-announce To: luv-announce at luv.asn.au Hi all! This weekend is the deadline for submitting a talk to LCA 2022: https://linux.conf.au/programme/proposals/ >From the page: *"Deciding what to speak about at linux.conf.au can be a tough challenge, particularly for new speakers."* We are hosting a brainstorming session to help members with their proposal ideas. *Time*: Sunday, 3pm *URL*: https://venue.electronworkshop.com.au/b/luv-fab-onf-sjp *Join to support people who are considering submitting a talk* The more people we have on the call, the better we can support people with talk ideas. *Join to present your ideas for a talk* You may have potential ideas for submitting a talk but are not sure if they are relevant or how to put them together in a proposal. This is a good opportunity to bring up your idea and get support. *Join to help us test our new BBB installation* We are preparing our new BBB installation for the Software Freedom Day next week. The more people attend, the better we can test the server under stress. We can also find potential incompatibilities with certain devices, browsers etc. Hopefully see you tomorrow afternoon! + Alexar -- *Alexar Pendashteh* Acting President *Linux Users of Victoria * From kira0030 at gmail.com Thu Sep 16 17:06:04 2021 From: kira0030 at gmail.com (Kylie Willison) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2021 16:36:04 +0930 Subject: [Linux-aus] Software Freedom Day In Adelaide Message-ID: This Saturday 18th September is Software Freedom Day. Call in to Makerspace Adelaide between 1pm and 4:30pm-ish to hang out and chat about free software. Bring some cash for afternoon pizza and soft drinks from the vending machine which are $2 each. Bring laptops, use the free wifi. BYO hack/project if you want to. BYO mask Robyn and Kylie Willison -- Makerspace Adelaide 100 Franklin St Adelaide 5000 Kylie's Genes Research Services http://www.research.kyliesgenes.com Adelaide Local Exchange Trading System http://www.letsadelaide.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: