From russell+linux-aus at coker.com.au Tue Jun 1 19:39:00 2021 From: russell+linux-aus at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2021 19:39:00 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Fwd: Suggestion: virtual lug talks Message-ID: <3359568.el2rDvYuWp@xev> I had an idea for arranging Australia (and maybe NZ too) wide Linux meetings. Russell Stuart improved on that idea dramatically, we had a delay of a few months due to everyone working on other things too. But now I'm publishing his email (with his permission) to start a public discussion. ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Suggestion: virtual lug talks Date: Wednesday, 3 March 2021, 11:46:53 AM AEST From: Russell Stuart To: Russell Coker First draft. Let me know what you think. I think being signed by both of us might be a good idea, but if so a lot of I's below will have to be re-worded. Hi all, This is a follow up to the virtual LUG meeting we had at LCA 2021. It's far too late. Apologies for that. Before getting into the meat of it, there is something you should be aware of. I suggested we convene on this mailing list because it was inactive. But now I'm a moderator, I can see 64 current subscribers who will get this email, and there were about 10 of us. I think that is a good thing. First, a summary of our online meeting. I gather we agree LUG's are all suffer from two problems. One immediate: COVID wrecking havoc with our normal meetup habits. The second is long term. There is less interest in the style of gatherings LUG's tend to have, ie meetings based on running Linux on your PC. I will add to these two other things we seem to agree on: enthusiasm for open source is as strong as ever. The active participation LUG's used to attract hasn't gone away. It's just splintered into lots of different meetup's, online communities and conferences. In fact here in Brisbane I would lay long odds if added up all the hours people spend discussing and collaborating on Rust, Javascript, VR and other meetups I would find it far surpasses the interest Humbug attracted at its peak, and at that peak was well over 100 people attending every meeting. The second observation is those meetup's in particular have been battered by COVID 19, just as we have been. The nub of this email is it appears we open source people have a problem in common with LUG's: COVID 19 is preventing us from getting together to have a natter about our favourite interest. And it also appears to me the LUG's could band together to provide an answer to that common problem. Most of us have roused up speakers in the past, and we tend to have the broad social networks needed to do the job. We also have the in-house expertise to set up virtual Australia wide talk. Well, to be more precise LUV has that expertise, in fact they do it now. And finally, we have the ear of the LA council. On the subject of the LA council, I should set expectations. I've been the LA treasurer for 4 years, so I can say with some authority they are like the rest of open source: the council is a do'oracy. Things happen because someone gave up their spare time to make it happen. In a do'oracy the people in charge tend to be the people who gave up their time. The people on the council are busy people already. They can't and won't be organising and throwing resources our way to make our job easier. If this is a success, it will be because we made it a success and it will be ours to own. But ... they do have access to money. They are pretty tight fisted with that money - to have any hope of being granted some, you have to convince them you are advancing open source. And even then we aren't talking a lot of money. But if this is a success and we need to pay for VM's or bandwidth, I expect the smallish means required to do that will be forthcoming after a suitable amount of begging. We might also need to provide headsets to speakers to ensure suitable audio quality. The proposal is we LUGS organize a regular nation wide virtual meetup that our members can attend, the bait being talks. Ie, no different to what we used to do, but virtual. And that we actively seek to make this appealing to the splintered offshoots, so they also provide talks and their members attend. Doing that will lessen the load and broaden the group. The nuts and bolts of this proposal are: - LUV sets up the infrastructure for a nation wide virtual meeting. Apart from organising the server, this boils down to providing speakers and attendees with suitable URL's. - Each participating LUG undertakes by replying to this email to find suitable speakers on a rotating basis. - I suggest we organise with a calendar like thing (cloud spreadsheet, trello or whatever) with a LUGS name beside each meeting date, and the LUG enters the talk names they have lined up. Continuity is critical, and this will allow is to see if someone is having trouble so others can step up with a talk they already have. - The LUG's will activity canvas other open source'y groups in their area, asking them if they know of speakers who could contribute and members who would be interested in attending. - We will maintain a registry of those other open source groups and their contacts to ensure the process can continue as people fall off the perch. - We will actively encourage people from outside the LUG's to join us as organisers of this - ie allow them to organise talks, giving them access to whatever small amounts of infrastructure we have. - For clarity for now the only explicit goal is to have a talk organised, invites containing URL's distributed, and perhaps more than 20 attend. If we regularly pull that off I'll deem the endeavour a wild success. Other things like recording the talks or providing chat rooms for other purposes will probably happen, but for the moment the focus is simply on getting this ball rolling. Action Items ------------ I will also create a folder on LA's Google account that will initially contain the two spreadsheets mentioned above - the meeting dates and group registry, and I will share that folder with whoever replies to this email. (I'm guessing we will change this arrangement later.) Russell Coker, has to reply to this email on behalf of LUV saying they will step up and organise the infrastructure for the first few rounds of talks. WE have to decide on meeting dates and frequency. YOU have to reply to this email, saying: - You are interested in arranging talks on behalf of LUG xxxx in area yyyy, - You will contact other open source groups in your area canvassing for talks, - You will host (introduce speakers, your LUG, etc) your talks on the infrastructure we come up with, - You will distribute the invites containing the URL's to the talks far and wide, - You will keep any paperwork we decide on up to date with your doings (eg, the talk schedule and registry mentioned above), and finally - Any meeting time and frequency preferences your LUG has. I, on behalf of Humbug (the Brisbane LUG), undertake to get the ball rolling by organising the first talk. It will be from brispy, the local Python meetup, who has ceased meeting due to COVID. With respects to dates and times, fortnightly or monthly seems appropriate. If they take off weekly might also be appropriate. On times, during weekdays anything starting between 6:30 PM and 8:30 PM Queensland time (+1000) is OK. On the weekends any time could probably be made to work. ----------------------------------------- -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From david_crosswell at telaman.net.au Wed Jun 2 04:39:57 2021 From: david_crosswell at telaman.net.au (David) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2021 04:39:57 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Fwd: Suggestion: virtual lug talks In-Reply-To: <3359568.el2rDvYuWp@xev> References: <3359568.el2rDvYuWp@xev> Message-ID: <20210602043957.527a5e2b.david_crosswell@telaman.net.au> On Tue, 01 Jun 2021 19:39:00 +1000 Russell Coker via linux-aus wrote: > I had an idea for arranging Australia (and maybe NZ too) wide Linux > meetings. Russell Stuart improved on that idea dramatically, we had a delay > of a few months due to everyone working on other things too. But now I'm > publishing his email (with his permission) to start a public discussion. Excellent idea, and I have often wondered why it hasn't been put into effect long before now. We have everything needed, from Big Blue Button to Jami, to place it into effect, constituents spread over such a wide geographical area with the need, yet it has remained unemployed. There is still a need for F2F functions, but for a mechanism to promote and maintain community, we have it available, but it remains idle. I'm often away overseas, border controls permitting, but count me in. Kind regards, David Crosswell. From shirro at shirro.com Wed Jun 2 10:39:36 2021 From: shirro at shirro.com (Paul Shirren) Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2021 10:09:36 +0930 Subject: [Linux-aus] Fwd: Suggestion: virtual lug talks In-Reply-To: <3359568.el2rDvYuWp@xev> References: <3359568.el2rDvYuWp@xev> Message-ID: <04085170ef59b05c2505642891d58a1b27fc8022.camel@shirro.com> Bringing it under one umbrella would help with discoverability and reach. Years ago I tried to run a rural LUG and only got 3-4 people attending due to the low population and it was difficult to sustain as people had conflicts with work and other activities. IRL meetings are great also difficult to attend for many people even before Covid. Adelaide with a population of 1.3million had LinuxSA fell off the Internet last year. The link on the LA site to linuxsa at?https://linux.org.au/lugs/#lugsa probably should be removed since the domain was not renewed. From info at petermoulding.com Wed Jun 2 11:12:28 2021 From: info at petermoulding.com (Info) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2021 11:12:28 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Fwd: Suggestion: virtual lug talks In-Reply-To: <04085170ef59b05c2505642891d58a1b27fc8022.camel@shirro.com> References: <3359568.el2rDvYuWp@xev> <04085170ef59b05c2505642891d58a1b27fc8022.camel@shirro.com> Message-ID: <03a11702-9d99-f40d-37f8-d9da1bc5ee52@petermoulding.com> My experience with early chat systems showed a problem for many volunteers, people without paid time slots for the project, and people planning events. People who miss the start of a discussion, or cannot stay for the end, do not get to see the full discussion. Some newer systems let you record a discussion so that those who miss the session can catch up before the next session. It can be hard to link discussions when they expand out to a project or an event plan. Chat as part of an overall larger project oriented application could lead to better preparation and easier conversion to a plan plus the addition of images, mind maps, whatever. Editable chat with images, etc, could develop into an education session, sort of like a Wiki but with audio visual. Big Blue Button is worth research. Cheaper than the Atlassian products. :-) On 2/6/21 10:39 am, Paul Shirren via linux-aus wrote: > Bringing it under one umbrella would help with discoverability and > reach. From lloy0076 at adam.com.au Wed Jun 2 20:25:36 2021 From: lloy0076 at adam.com.au (David Lloyd) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2021 06:25:36 -0400 Subject: [Linux-aus] Fwd: Suggestion: virtual lug talks In-Reply-To: <04085170ef59b05c2505642891d58a1b27fc8022.camel@shirro.com> References: <3359568.el2rDvYuWp@xev> <04085170ef59b05c2505642891d58a1b27fc8022.camel@shirro.com> Message-ID: Kim Hawtin seems to be the current registrant for that domain :) On 1/06/2021 8:39 pm, Paul Shirren via linux-aus wrote: > Bringing it under one umbrella would help with discoverability and > reach. > > Years ago I tried to run a rural LUG and only got 3-4 people attending > due to the low population and it was difficult to sustain as people had > conflicts with work and other activities. IRL meetings are great also > difficult to attend for many people even before Covid. > > Adelaide with a population of 1.3million had LinuxSA fell off the > Internet last year. > > The link on the LA site to linuxsa at?https://linux.org.au/lugs/#lugsa > probably should be removed since the domain was not renewed. > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au From sam at samwilson.id.au Wed Jun 2 20:33:36 2021 From: sam at samwilson.id.au (Sam Wilson) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2021 18:33:36 +0800 Subject: [Linux-aus] Fwd: Suggestion: virtual lug talks In-Reply-To: References: <3359568.el2rDvYuWp@xev> <04085170ef59b05c2505642891d58a1b27fc8022.camel@shirro.com> Message-ID: <2eec1726-b452-d515-b8c1-c6ab9e64fe44@samwilson.id.au> Could it be related to the recent changes to eligibility for .org.au domains? i.e. you now have to be an incorporated association to own them. On 2/6/21 6:25 pm, David Lloyd via linux-aus wrote: > > Kim Hawtin seems to be the current registrant for that domain :) > > > On 1/06/2021 8:39 pm, Paul Shirren via linux-aus wrote: >> Bringing it under one umbrella would help with discoverability and >> reach. >> >> Years ago I tried to run a rural LUG and only got 3-4 people attending >> due to the low population and it was difficult to sustain as people had >> conflicts with work and other activities. IRL meetings are great also >> difficult to attend for many people even before Covid. >> >> Adelaide with a population of 1.3million had LinuxSA fell off the >> Internet last year. >> >> The link on the LA site to linuxsa at?https://linux.org.au/lugs/#lugsa >> probably should be removed since the domain was not renewed. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> linux-aus mailing list >> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au >> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus >> >> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to >> linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au From eliot at blennerhassett.gen.nz Wed Jun 2 20:50:58 2021 From: eliot at blennerhassett.gen.nz (Eliot Blennerhassett) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2021 22:50:58 +1200 Subject: [Linux-aus] Fwd: Suggestion: virtual lug talks In-Reply-To: <03a11702-9d99-f40d-37f8-d9da1bc5ee52@petermoulding.com> References: <3359568.el2rDvYuWp@xev> <04085170ef59b05c2505642891d58a1b27fc8022.camel@shirro.com> <03a11702-9d99-f40d-37f8-d9da1bc5ee52@petermoulding.com> Message-ID: <936273c2-56ee-99a1-c724-bdcc04218df5@blennerhassett.gen.nz> On 2/06/21 1:12 pm, Info via linux-aus wrote: > > Big Blue Button is worth research. Greetings, NZ Open Source Society (NZOSS) is already running BBB, RocketChat and Nextcloud amongst others. (as always, we offer thanks to Catalyst.net.nz for generous hosting) We're using BBB for virtual meetups, and council meetings. You're welcome to register (open but moderated signup) on our Rocket chat at https://chat.nzoss.nz if you want to talk with us about this stuff. We can also make our BBB available if you want to try that. regards -- Eliot From shirro at shirro.com Wed Jun 2 21:31:22 2021 From: shirro at shirro.com (Paul Shirren) Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2021 21:01:22 +0930 Subject: [Linux-aus] Fwd: Suggestion: virtual lug talks In-Reply-To: References: <3359568.el2rDvYuWp@xev> <04085170ef59b05c2505642891d58a1b27fc8022.camel@shirro.com> Message-ID: <4720ef9b9b58147b72467dab63d1ca70ba25214f.camel@shirro.com> On Wed, 2021-06-02 at 06:25 -0400, David Lloyd via linux-aus wrote: > Kim Hawtin seems to be the current registrant for that domain :) Damn, I knew that. Still it is pointing at the netcraft ns and no email or web. Looks inactive from here. I wonder how many LUGs remain active enough to respond. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shirro at shirro.com Wed Jun 2 21:47:05 2021 From: shirro at shirro.com (Paul Shirren) Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2021 21:17:05 +0930 Subject: [Linux-aus] Fwd: Suggestion: virtual lug talks In-Reply-To: <2eec1726-b452-d515-b8c1-c6ab9e64fe44@samwilson.id.au> References: <3359568.el2rDvYuWp@xev> <04085170ef59b05c2505642891d58a1b27fc8022.camel@shirro.com> <2eec1726-b452-d515-b8c1-c6ab9e64fe44@samwilson.id.au> Message-ID: <8ca8ca3ac15cc6fa1112ad66901d05a5d840365c.camel@shirro.com> No, my mistake. The registration was transferred to someone but the group didn't appear to arrange new hosting when the old hosting agreement expired. There are probably ways around the eligibility. As an incorporated body I think LA could register a domain and claim regional lugs as a service they provide or an event they sponsor. On Wed, 2021-06-02 at 18:33 +0800, Sam Wilson via linux-aus wrote: > Could it be related to the recent changes to eligibility for .org.au > domains? i.e. you now have to be an incorporated association to own > them. > > On 2/6/21 6:25 pm, David Lloyd via linux-aus wrote: > > > > Kim Hawtin seems to be the current registrant for that domain :) > > > > > > On 1/06/2021 8:39 pm, Paul Shirren via linux-aus wrote: > > > Bringing it under one umbrella would help with discoverability > > > and > > > reach. > > > > > > Years ago I tried to run a rural LUG and only got 3-4 people > > > attending > > > due to the low population and it was difficult to sustain as > > > people had > > > conflicts with work and other activities. IRL meetings are great > > > also > > > difficult to attend for many people even before Covid. > > > > > > Adelaide with a population of 1.3million had LinuxSA fell off the > > > Internet last year. > > > > > > The link on the LA site to linuxsa > > > at?https://linux.org.au/lugs/#lugsa > > > probably should be removed since the domain was not renewed. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > linux-aus mailing list > > > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > > > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > > > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au > > _______________________________________________ > > linux-aus mailing list > > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lloy0076 at adam.com.au Wed Jun 2 21:54:57 2021 From: lloy0076 at adam.com.au (David Lloyd) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2021 07:54:57 -0400 Subject: [Linux-aus] Fwd: Suggestion: virtual lug talks In-Reply-To: <8ca8ca3ac15cc6fa1112ad66901d05a5d840365c.camel@shirro.com> References: <3359568.el2rDvYuWp@xev> <04085170ef59b05c2505642891d58a1b27fc8022.camel@shirro.com> <2eec1726-b452-d515-b8c1-c6ab9e64fe44@samwilson.id.au> <8ca8ca3ac15cc6fa1112ad66901d05a5d840365c.camel@shirro.com> Message-ID: <16f8f3aa-eaea-0473-a86a-0a67b7786d9a@adam.com.au> The easiest way around legibility would be to ask Linux Australia to "own" the domain which multiple versions of the committee have *already agreed to*. However, the domain was handed to someone else because of various reasons (the main one, I think, being that every time it looked like it could happen volunteer teams got busy - life happens). The birds tell me that Kim is looking for the backups of the LinuxSA web-site, by the way... DSL On 2/06/2021 7:47 am, Paul Shirren via linux-aus wrote: > No, my mistake. The registration was transferred to someone but the > group didn't appear to arrange new hosting when the old hosting > agreement expired. > > There are probably ways around the eligibility. As an incorporated > body I think LA could register a domain and claim regional lugs as a > service they provide or an event they sponsor. > > On Wed, 2021-06-02 at 18:33 +0800, Sam Wilson via linux-aus wrote: >> Could it be related to the recent changes to eligibility for .org.au >> domains? i.e. you now have to be an incorporated association to own them. >> >> On 2/6/21 6:25 pm, David Lloyd via linux-aus wrote: >>> >>> Kim Hawtin seems to be the current registrant for that domain :) >>> >>> >>> On 1/06/2021 8:39 pm, Paul Shirren via linux-aus wrote: >>>> Bringing it under one umbrella would help with discoverability and >>>> reach. >>>> >>>> Years ago I tried to run a rural LUG and only got 3-4 people attending >>>> due to the low population and it was difficult to sustain as people had >>>> conflicts with work and other activities. IRL meetings are great also >>>> difficult to attend for many people even before Covid. >>>> >>>> Adelaide with a population of 1.3million had LinuxSA fell off the >>>> Internet last year. >>>> >>>> The link on the LA site to linuxsa at >>>> https://linux.org.au/lugs/#lugsa >>>> probably should be removed since the domain was not renewed. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> linux-aus mailing list >>>> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au >>>> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus >>>> >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to >>>> linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> linux-aus mailing list >>> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au >>> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus >>> >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to >>> linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> linux-aus mailing list >> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au >> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to >> linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au >> > > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at sericyb.com.au Wed Jun 2 23:03:27 2021 From: andrew at sericyb.com.au (Andrew Pam) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2021 23:03:27 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Fwd: Suggestion: virtual lug talks In-Reply-To: <936273c2-56ee-99a1-c724-bdcc04218df5@blennerhassett.gen.nz> References: <3359568.el2rDvYuWp@xev> <04085170ef59b05c2505642891d58a1b27fc8022.camel@shirro.com> <03a11702-9d99-f40d-37f8-d9da1bc5ee52@petermoulding.com> <936273c2-56ee-99a1-c724-bdcc04218df5@blennerhassett.gen.nz> Message-ID: <44312108-05a7-144e-d0f1-f5c2a3bb760c@sericyb.com.au> On 2/6/21 8:50 pm, Eliot Blennerhassett via linux-aus wrote: > On 2/06/21 1:12 pm, Info via linux-aus wrote: >> Big Blue Button is worth research. > > NZ Open Source Society (NZOSS) is already running BBB, RocketChat and Nextcloud amongst others. > We're using BBB for virtual meetups, and council meetings. LUV has also been using BBB for our virtual meetups for a few years now. Cheers, Andrew -- mailto:andrew at sericyb.com.au Andrew Pam https://sericyb.com.au/ Manager, Serious Cybernetics https://glasswings.com.au/ Partner, Glass Wings From jwoithe at just42.net Thu Jun 3 10:00:52 2021 From: jwoithe at just42.net (Jonathan Woithe) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2021 09:30:52 +0930 Subject: [Linux-aus] Fwd: Suggestion: virtual lug talks In-Reply-To: <16f8f3aa-eaea-0473-a86a-0a67b7786d9a@adam.com.au> References: <3359568.el2rDvYuWp@xev> <04085170ef59b05c2505642891d58a1b27fc8022.camel@shirro.com> <2eec1726-b452-d515-b8c1-c6ab9e64fe44@samwilson.id.au> <8ca8ca3ac15cc6fa1112ad66901d05a5d840365c.camel@shirro.com> <16f8f3aa-eaea-0473-a86a-0a67b7786d9a@adam.com.au> Message-ID: <20210603000052.GB29283@marvin.atrad.com.au> On Wed, Jun 02, 2021 at 07:54:57AM -0400, David Lloyd via linux-aus wrote: > The easiest way around legibility would be to ask Linux Australia to "own" > the domain which multiple versions of the committee have *already agreed > to*. Correct. Affected groups connected to the Open Source community in Australia are more than welcome to contact LA Council (council at linux.org.au) or any member of the council to discuss the logistics of making this happen. Regards jonathan From kim at hawtin.net.au Thu Jun 3 10:18:39 2021 From: kim at hawtin.net.au (Kim Hawtin) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2021 09:48:39 +0930 Subject: [Linux-aus] Suggestion: virtual lug talks In-Reply-To: <4720ef9b9b58147b72467dab63d1ca70ba25214f.camel@shirro.com> References: <3359568.el2rDvYuWp@xev> <04085170ef59b05c2505642891d58a1b27fc8022.camel@shirro.com> <4720ef9b9b58147b72467dab63d1ca70ba25214f.camel@shirro.com> Message-ID: <947DB0DF-911E-43A3-BB8B-EE53A51D35C7@hawtin.net.au> > On 2 Jun 2021, at 9:01 pm, Paul Shirren wrote: > On Wed, 2021-06-02 at 06:25 -0400, David Lloyd via linux-aus wrote: >> Kim Hawtin seems to be the current registrant for that domain :) > > Damn, I knew that. Still it is pointing at the netcraft ns and no email or web. Looks inactive from here. > > I wonder how many LUGs remain active enough to respond. Summary; Netcraft wanted to stop hosting the domain and the vm. They gave us some time, new host was found, backups made, etc. Because COVID education sector federal government fail, I lost my job and had messy casual work eat me alive. I have backups of the VM, but I have lost contact with the person that had offered to host a VM. While I am back in work, with other commitments, I won?t have time until late July. If anyone wants to push this barrow happy to make backups available. Regards, Kim From svetlana at members.fsf.org Thu Jun 3 15:25:12 2021 From: svetlana at members.fsf.org (Svetlana Tkachenko) Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2021 15:25:12 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Suggestion: virtual lug talks In-Reply-To: <947DB0DF-911E-43A3-BB8B-EE53A51D35C7@hawtin.net.au> References: <3359568.el2rDvYuWp@xev> <04085170ef59b05c2505642891d58a1b27fc8022.camel@shirro.com> <4720ef9b9b58147b72467dab63d1ca70ba25214f.camel@shirro.com> <947DB0DF-911E-43A3-BB8B-EE53A51D35C7@hawtin.net.au> Message-ID: <2fba1197-06f8-42e1-8a66-0896347ae583@www.fastmail.com> > People who miss the start of a discussion, or cannot stay > for the end, do not get to see the full discussion. In my view IRC resolves that, conversation is easy to review without being there on time. -- Svetlana From steve at nerdvana.org.au Thu Jun 3 19:41:14 2021 From: steve at nerdvana.org.au (Steve Walsh) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2021 19:41:14 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Suggestion: virtual lug talks In-Reply-To: <947DB0DF-911E-43A3-BB8B-EE53A51D35C7@hawtin.net.au> References: <3359568.el2rDvYuWp@xev> <04085170ef59b05c2505642891d58a1b27fc8022.camel@shirro.com> <4720ef9b9b58147b72467dab63d1ca70ba25214f.camel@shirro.com> <947DB0DF-911E-43A3-BB8B-EE53A51D35C7@hawtin.net.au> Message-ID: Hi Kim On 3/6/21 10:18 am, Kim Hawtin via linux-aus wrote: > While I am back in work, with other commitments, I won?t have time until late July. > If anyone wants to push this barrow happy to make backups available. reach out, I'll make it happen. From glenn.l.mcgrath at gmail.com Fri Jun 11 10:09:50 2021 From: glenn.l.mcgrath at gmail.com (Glenn) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2021 10:09:50 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Right to Repair (draft report by Productivity Commission) Message-ID: <03d54cf8b1012a62a8c2f543da6434177d3fda39.camel@gmail.com> The productivity Commission has been conducting an enquiry into the right to repair in Australia, and have come up with a draft report, available at the following link. https://www.pc.gov.au/inquiries/current/repair They have been looking at software related issues as a part of the investigation, and have some information requests. If you can handle responding to reports like this, or know someone who can, i encourage your to have a look, productivity commission has a lot of influence, opportunities for change in this area don't come around very often and things wont change unless we can articulate how its broken. Some key points ive noticed from a quick look, the second one (5.1) is most important which is talking about changing copyright law. INFORMATION REQUEST 3.1 REPAIR FACILITIES, SPARE PARTS AND SOFTWARE UPDATES To better understand whether consumers have reasonable access to repair facilities, spare parts and software updates, the Commission is seeking further information on: ? ? ? whether consumers are experiencing problems using their products due to a software fault or lack of software updates, including specific examples where manufacturers have not addressed the problem because of claims that it is not covered by consumer guarantees ? the costs and benefits of requiring that software updates be provided by manufacturers for a reasonable period of time after the product has been purchased. INFORMATION REQUEST 5.1 IMPROVING ACCESS TO REPAIR INFORMATION The Commission is considering recommending amendments to intellectual property laws to improve access to repair information through the options outlined in draft finding 5.2. It is seeking views on each option, in particular: ? whether the proposed reform options will assist repairers in accessing repair information, and therefore facilitate third-party repair ? what types of contractual arrangements that could override such reforms are most likely to be of concern ? the costs, benefits and risks of pursuing each option. The draft finding its referring to is; DRAFT FINDING 5.2 OPTIONS TO IMPROVE ACCESS TO REPAIR INFORMATION There are two main options to amend intellectual property protections to improve access to repair information. ? Amend the Copyright Act 1968 to allow for the reproduction and sharing of repair information, through the introduction of a fair use exception or a repair-specific fair dealing exception. ? Amend the Copyright Act 1968 to allow repairers to legally procure tools required to access repair information protected by technological protection measures (TPMs), such as digital locks. This may also require the Australian Government to clarify the scope and intent of the existing (related) exception for circumventing TPMs for the purpose of repair. To reduce the risk of manufacturers using contractual arrangements (such as confidentiality agreements) to ?override? the operation of any such reforms, it may also be beneficial to amend the Copyright Act 1968 to prohibit the use of contract terms that restrict repair-related activities otherwise permitted under copyright law Cheers Glenn From info at petermoulding.com Fri Jun 11 11:14:24 2021 From: info at petermoulding.com (Info) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2021 11:14:24 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Right to Repair (draft report by Productivity Commission) In-Reply-To: <03d54cf8b1012a62a8c2f543da6434177d3fda39.camel@gmail.com> References: <03d54cf8b1012a62a8c2f543da6434177d3fda39.camel@gmail.com> Message-ID: I am thinking about the following. Three submissions. Updates. Replaceability. Price disclosure. * Manufacturers should state in the sales lit/specs exactly how long the customer will get updates for BIOS/firmware/security. * If updates are not available for a reasonable time, say 10 years, the manufacturer should facilitate an alternative. The alternative might be support for open source software. * All BIOS/firmware loaders should be open source to allow porting to any operating system. * The specs for all USB devices should include the USB ID. * The most common replacements are batteries and storage. The device description/specs should state how batteries and storage are replaced or have a big warning that they are not replaceable. * For potential purchasers of handheld devices and electric cars, the manufacturer should either publish the cost of a replacement battery (a future shock for Tesla owners) or publish the specifications so that other suppliers can make plug compatible batteries, just like the batteries in current cars and old Samsungs. On 11/6/21 10:09 am, Glenn via linux-aus wrote: > The productivity Commission has been conducting an enquiry into the > right to repair in Australia, and have come up with a draft report, > available at the following link. > https://www.pc.gov.au/inquiries/current/repair > > They have been looking at software related issues as a part of the > investigation, and have some information requests. > > If you can handle responding to reports like this, or know someone who > can, i encourage your to have a look, productivity commission has a lot > of influence, opportunities for change in this area don't come around > very often and things wont change unless we can articulate how its > broken. > > Some key points ive noticed from a quick look, the second one (5.1) is > most important which is talking about changing copyright law. > > INFORMATION REQUEST 3.1 REPAIR FACILITIES, SPARE PARTS AND SOFTWARE > UPDATES > To better understand whether consumers have reasonable access to repair > facilities, spare parts and software updates, the Commission is seeking > further information on: > ? > ? > ? whether consumers are experiencing problems using their products due > to a software fault or lack of software updates, including specific > examples where manufacturers have not addressed the problem because of > claims that it is not covered by consumer guarantees > ? the costs and benefits of requiring that software updates be provided > by manufacturers for a reasonable period of time after the product has > been purchased. > > INFORMATION REQUEST 5.1 IMPROVING ACCESS TO REPAIR INFORMATION > The Commission is considering recommending amendments to intellectual > property laws to improve access to repair information through the > options outlined in draft finding 5.2. > It is seeking views on each option, in particular: > ? whether the proposed reform options will assist repairers in > accessing repair information, and therefore facilitate third-party > repair > ? what types of contractual arrangements that could override such > reforms are most likely to be of concern > ? the costs, benefits and risks of pursuing each option. > > The draft finding its referring to is; > > DRAFT FINDING 5.2 OPTIONS TO IMPROVE ACCESS TO REPAIR INFORMATION > There are two main options to amend intellectual property protections > to improve access to repair information. > ? Amend the Copyright Act 1968 to allow for the reproduction and > sharing of repair information, through the introduction of a fair use > exception or a repair-specific fair dealing exception. > ? Amend the Copyright Act 1968 to allow repairers to legally procure > tools required to access repair information protected by technological > protection measures (TPMs), such as digital locks. This may also > require the Australian Government to clarify the scope and intent of > the existing (related) exception for circumventing TPMs for the > purpose of repair. > To reduce the risk of manufacturers using contractual arrangements > (such as confidentiality agreements) to ?override? the operation of any > such reforms, it may also be beneficial to amend the Copyright Act 1968 > to prohibit the use of contract terms that restrict repair-related > activities otherwise permitted under copyright law > > > Cheers > > Glenn > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au > From glenn.l.mcgrath at gmail.com Fri Jun 11 12:00:14 2021 From: glenn.l.mcgrath at gmail.com (Glenn) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2021 12:00:14 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Right to Repair (draft report by Productivity Commission) In-Reply-To: References: <03d54cf8b1012a62a8c2f543da6434177d3fda39.camel@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 2021-06-11 at 11:14 +1000, Info wrote: > I am thinking about the following. Three submissions. Updates. > Replaceability. Price disclosure. > > * Manufacturers should state in the sales lit/specs exactly how long > the customer will get updates > for BIOS/firmware/security. Agree > * If updates are not available for a reasonable time, say 10 years, > the manufacturer should > facilitate an alternative. The alternative might be support for open > source software. Agree, i tried to argue a similar thing in my original submission, especially in relation to software security, where the reasonable time period should be the products physical life. It should be similar to airbags, where manufacturers are responsible for the outcomes of defective products, although probably not life threatening, bad firmware for consumer devices can infringe on the owners fundamental human rights. > * All BIOS/firmware loaders should be open source to allow porting to > any operating system. I dont think they can/would mandate open source directly, but they can recommend rules that make open source adoption the most logical way forward. In the report they also consider the view from "Industry" that their are benefits to locking things down, which they dont necessarily find to be the case. > * The specs for all USB devices should include the USB ID. This is the sort of outcomes i assume they want from adding fair use to the copyright act; should be covered by the "assist repairers in accessing repair information". There is a fair bit to read in the initial report, it provides a lot of context with existing consumer protection laws, plenty of digging to do. Glenn From dan at kortschak.io Fri Jun 11 12:23:38 2021 From: dan at kortschak.io (Dan Kortschak) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2021 02:23:38 +0000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Right to Repair (draft report by Productivity Commission) In-Reply-To: References: <03d54cf8b1012a62a8c2f543da6434177d3fda39.camel@gmail.com> Message-ID: <05adf7bd580fcabb9f9ca4458ca4043387d93a33.camel@kortschak.io> On Fri, 2021-06-11 at 12:00 +1000, Glenn via linux-aus wrote: > > * If updates are not available for a reasonable time, say 10 years, > > the manufacturer should > > facilitate an alternative. The alternative might be support for > > open > > source software. > > Agree, i tried to argue a similar thing in my original submission, > especially in relation to software security, where the reasonable > time > period should be the products physical life. It should be similar to > airbags, where manufacturers are responsible for the outcomes of > defective products, although probably not life threatening, bad > firmware for consumer devices can infringe on the owners fundamental > human rights. I think it goes beyond the owner's rights and into public liability; a vulnerability may open up third parties to damage by virtue of the networked nature of most modern devices. Dan From president at linux.org.au Fri Jun 18 23:07:41 2021 From: president at linux.org.au (President, Linux Australia - Sae Ra Germaine) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2021 23:07:41 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Linux Australia and related communication channels Message-ID: <2d68e6f8-a346-9f4d-cfe4-5fbb2c22df24@linux.org.au> *Apologies for cross posting* Dear Everyone, After some lengthy yet snappy deliberations, I think Linux Australia has come up with a workable real-time chat solution that keeps everyone connected in some sort of way. Interestingly, our IRC/Matrix channels of communication are one of our more popular ways of engaging with our community and it is essential that we do the right thing and make sure we don?t segregate the community [0] by implementing yet another chat platform. I will talk about 2 specific modes of communication. These will/have been bridged so that they talk to each other. #Matrix TL;DR: we are staying, with more bridges! Matrix[1] will become our primary channel space. We have had a presence here for a while now, and are taking the opportunity to make this our official communication channel. For those new to Matrix, Element is a great multi-platform client to get started with.? Note that Matrix does not require you run your own home-server: just choose matrix.org as your home-server when setting up your account. We have registered a Linux Australia ?Public Space? as an experiment (as Spaces are still in Beta) but we think that this is a great way to centralise everything and make our Linux Australia community groups more discoverable. You can join the space via https://matrix.to/#/#linux-australia:matrix.org , from which you can see all our rooms (aka channels). All of our channels are also available in the directory, so you can join without using the space: * #linuxaus (https://matrix.to/#/#linuxaus:matrix.org ) * #linuxaus-lugs (https://matrix.to/#/#linuxaus-lugs:matrix.org ) * #linux.conf.au (https://matrix.to/#/#linux.conf.au:matrix.org ) #IRC TL;DR: we have moved to libera.chat and any channels there will be bridged to Matrix. Although Matrix will be our primary platform, we will be backwards compatible with IRC by bridging key Matrix rooms into their IRC equivalent. We have put in an application to the libera.chat team to create what?s called project and community groups (https://libera.chat/chanreg ) based around our major chat channels. Once this has been completed we will let everyone know where to point to (or not). Hopefully this shouldn?t take too long and we will be in touch as soon as we know more. #For those who aren?t in either Join us! We will be creating some documentation on our website about joining these specific channels shortly. If you have any questions please don?t hesitate to reach out to us via these methods: Email: council at linux.org.au IRC/Matrix: Myself - MsMaryMac Joel - jea/Joela Russell - rstuart Steve - evil_steve Thanks, Sae Ra [0] https://xkcd.com/1810/ [1] https://matrix.org/faq/ -- Sae Ra Germaine President Linux Australia president at linux.org.au http://linux.org.au Linux Australia Inc GPO Box 4788 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia ABN 56 987 117 479 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: