[Linux-aus] Matrix (was: Operation Anzacathon is go!)

Daniel Pocock daniel at pocock.com.au
Tue May 5 08:12:28 AEST 2020

On 04/05/2020 20:19, Ben McGinnes via linux-aus wrote:
> On Mon, May 04, 2020 at 01:09:02PM +1200, martin f krafft via linux-aus wrote:
>> Regarding the following, written by "Ben McGinnes" on 2020-05-04 at 00:42 Uhr +0000:
>>> I haven't used a specific IM client in a few years (not counting group
>>> chat things like Discord, Slack, and IRC).  Is Matrix effectively the
>>> successor to XMPP?
>> The team answers this question somewhat in [their FAQs](https://matrix.org/faq/#what-is-the-difference-between-matrix-and-xmpp%3F),
> Interesting.  Though digging in, I now realise that this is one of the
> few projects my fellow Pirates had been waxing lyrical about a while
> back.  Now I see why.

Notice that the identity stuff, which is pretty fundamental, is still


They have made some really good achievements but they also have some
gaps to fill.  They are completely transparent about that.  Given the
open nature of the project, I'm sure they would welcome ideas about how
to fill those gaps.

I attended quite a few early meetings of the UK ENUM committee, they
faced many of the same thorny issues that Matrix refer to as 3PID today.

ENUM, of course, was IETF while Matrix is not:


but the fundamental issues around identity are much the same either way.

Notice that like Signal, Matrix still requires a server somewhere, they
just give more people the option to run the servers.

Jami tries to be even more decentralized, not federated like Matrix


>> Matrix probably can't do much what XMPP doesn't also do, but it's
>> easier to get up and running to a modern standard (media,
>> multi-device, encryption, real-time voice/video),
> Well, if it can do real-time voice and video then it's already got one
> big plus over XMPP, which never quite got that behaving properly.  It
> was eternally on the todo list.

WebRTC is also making strong progress in voice and video.  Anybody can
white label JSCommunicator into a web site or CMS, see the integration guide



It aims to do federated SIP.  That actually works calling from:

to any Fedora user on:

Jitsi Meet has also become really well known for online meetings.

>> and has a stronger governance behind it.
> So I see.  Particularly in their, quite welcome, resistance to certain
> nasty, exclusionary trends in a number of projects of late.

Nasty?  People using words like that on some mailing lists have been
banned/censored/moderated/demoted/shamed and humiliated for violating
the Code of Obedience, oops, Code of Conduct.

>> To me, the best thing about Matrix is the concept of
>> [bridges](https://matrix.org/bridges), which tie in other protocols,
>> so you can also use Matrix to interact with the poor sods on Slack,
>> or Discord users, or even some of the (other) proprietary
>> surveillance shit that comes out of Silicon Valley.
> That has a definite appeal to me too.  Also interesting that it's gone
> for RESTful APIs with JSON data, which means getting it to play nicely
> with the other Fediverse, built on ActivityPub and ActivityStreams 2.0,
> should be fairly straight forward.
> Which means I should probably finalise my draft (optional) protocol to
> provide end-to-end encryption for ActivityPub and ActivityStreams
> using OpenPGP, [Active Cryptography](http://files.de.adversary.org/crypto/ac/index.html).
> It's almost complete, I just need to re-do the key sharing method
> (because the SKS servers are showing their age, but WKD isn't quite
> there yet).  Well, that and code examples for it, of course, but I've
> done a fair bit of the ground work on that anyway.

The challenge with some of those bridges is that you end up building a
following on one of those other platforms and not on Matrix itself.

Then you remain at the mercy of the other platform and their API.

Just look at what happened when Skype pulled the rug out from under
Asterisk users:


and Google and Facebook both pulled the rug out under XMPP.  There is no
guarantee that bridges for Slack or other proprietary platforms will
work indefinitely.



Debian Developer

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