From president at linux.org.au Tue Dec 4 14:42:21 2018 From: president at linux.org.au (Linux Australia President) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2018 14:42:21 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Rusty Wrench nominations 2019 Message-ID: Hi everyone, At the end of 30th? November, the following nominations were received for the Rusty Wrench award. Nominee details are withheld to protect privacy. We will now work with the Rusty Wrench team to determine the recipient, which will be announced at LCA2019 in Christchurch. A huge thank you to all those who made a nomination, and much kudos to all nominees for the respect you've garnered in our community. Kind regards, Kathy Nominee Reason Paul King Paul's contributions over the last 12 years to the groovy project have benefited us all, both directly, and indirectly via gradle.? He's also given speeches and written books on groovy to enlighten us all.? In 2010 he received the RockStar award at JavaOne. Tim Ansell I'd like to nominate Tim Ansell for the Rusty Wrench Award. Over the years he has done a lot for Open Source in Australia, including: - founded pyconau - done video at many LA conferences for many years, including personally funding a huge amount of development to get us to where we are today - massively improved the open FPGA space - done tomu - run SLUG - etc etc - and been a generally nice guy I think the timing is nice as he is getting dragged to the US for FPGA things, and I'd like a way to say that we've appreciated his efforts over the years. Joshua Hesketh Joshua exemplifies what it means to be a community leader in open source. His efforts in Linux Australia and in linux.conf.au 2017 in Tasmania, his diplomatic style, attention to detail and all around respect make him a role model for others to aspire to. Joshua Hesketh I'd like to nominate Josh Hesketh as he is the community member that we should all aspire to be. He goes above and beyond when volunteering for this organisation. He helps us Council members when in need of wisdom, advice, help with that pesky MemberDB. He helps and chairs the Diversity Team and brings a level headed and fair approach in whatever situation he is thrown into. And finally he is just an overall decent person. Richard Jones For his years of work making PyCon AU happen, for his work on Python and PyPI, and his continued support of young Python developers through initiatives like https://pyweek.org/ Christopher Neugebauer For his years of work organising PyCon AU, Linux.conf.au, Lightning Talk Tzar For Life, and continuing to bring python conferences to life even after leaving Australia. By 2019 he would have been working to help make space for people to learn and teach open source ideals for at least a full decade; not bad for someone so (relatively) young. -- Kathy Reid President Linux Australia 0418 130 636 president at linux.org.au http://linux.org.au Linux Australia Inc GPO Box 4788 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia ABN 56 987 117 479 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aj at erisian.com.au Thu Dec 6 11:51:24 2018 From: aj at erisian.com.au (Anthony Towns) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2018 10:51:24 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Encryption bill and open source Message-ID: <20181206005124.af4z764bwwkdk7k4@erisian.com.au> Hey *, (Is this still a discussion list? Apologies if not) It seems like the Assistance and Access bill is going to pass with bi-partisan support because apparently national security needs a Christmas present [0]. Like everyone has already said, this is utterly unconscionable and a disaster for both Australians' privacy and trust in Australian IT service providers. But maybe (and maybe this is more of a contrarian take than a realistic one) this is something open source can already protect itself against. The whole "change the code to insert backdoors and ship it out to customers without telling them" approach is one that only works if you've got centralised control of what users run, and nobody able to identify backdoors (and allowed to object to them) is reviewing the code. If you're instead using best practices for open source development, that's not an issue: to get the backdoor into users hands, you have to: a) get the backdoor published as source and passing review, even by independent co-contributors who might be outside the AA bill's jurisdiction; or b) get the backdoor published as a binary that doesn't match the published source and hence isn't a reproducible build; and have user's not build from source and not notice that the build they're using is non-reproducible There's two *really* hard steps there: a) getting co-contributors who actively review patches to all the open source software people use; and b) making it so non-technical users can actually benefit from reproducible builds But both those are already problems even with non-state-level attackers; eg [1] or [2] for (a), and for (b) hopefully it's obvious that deliberately adding backdoors in binaries is easy if that's what everyone uses and no one can check it actually matches the published source. So maybe we should be thinking about ways of improving the state of the art in open source, and routing around ridiculous laws, rather than relying on avoiding ridiculous laws, given the fix is already in? Like, encouraging LUGs to have hackathons/talks on how to build your own android system (OS and apps) from source; or encouraging conferences to have sessions on how devs can find/encourage co-maintainers and do reviews of patches and dependencies to avoid exploits slipping in? I mean, the AA bill is still a horrible idea and both political parties should have known better [3], but at least open source has *some* prospect of defending users against it. At least until they talk to Intel and just backdoor the system over built-in wifi from below the kernel level of course... An alternative approach be for many of us to say "complying with the AA bill by inserting backdoors is unethical", and to back that up by supporting those of us who actually resist it, eg by covering legal costs for devs/admins who break the law by not implementing backdoors when required, or by revealing their existence; and having a fund to support their families if they're unable to get paid in the meantime, etc. If we had a simple, consistent, understandable set of principles like that, it could be a strong way of preventing lawmaking that goes against those ethics; in a similar way in which the Hippocratic oath lets patients generally trust doctors. I'm not what a broadly acceptable ethical principle would be exactly; if the principle was "software should serve the end user's interest", that could make it unethical to work for a whole bunch of data harvesting companies like Google and Facebook, which... might not be wrong, but probably wouldn't be effective. Kind of interesting that the end-to-end principle is topical again just in time for lca's first return to the South Island of NZ since Dan Jacobsen's talk on using that philosophy to get a high performance network stack back at lca 2006... Cheers, aj [0] "Assistant Home Affairs Minister Linda Reynolds claimed the legislation needs to be rushed to help alleviate security threats over the coming summer break. "Christmas is a heightened security issue for us and we need to make sure people are as safe and as secure as possible," Reynolds said on Sunday. "It is the lives of Australians at risk, because the threat is real." " -- https://www.zdnet.com/article/coalition-and-labor-strike-deal-on-encryption-legislation/ [1] https://it.slashdot.org/story/18/12/01/2217231/nodejs-event-stream-hack-reveals-open-source-developer-infrastructure-exploit [2] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2003/02/msg00771.html [3] The AA bill seems like a potential disaster for small IT outsourcing companies. Without the AA bill, you could at least meet the people involved and say "yeah, they seem trustworthy, I don't think they'll login as root and read all my email if I get them to run my mail server". With the AA bill, even otherwise trustworthy people can be forced to forward all your emails to the govt, so any loss of trust in the govt's handling of private info seems like it flow pretty quickly into job losses there, if people start preferring to outsource to foreign IT companies instead. It seems like it could be bad for internal admin jobs too; if eg the ATO manages to use the bill to get an admin to add a hook to bcc all company executives' emails to their tax avoidance squad, which is after all just a 21st century way of investigating potential crimes, and a budget surplus is probably a national security issue, right? Why employ an Australian as an admin if they can be forced to forward your emails to govt agencies on fishing expeditions? Maybe multinationals who can have admins checking over each others changes will have less of a problem; but still why hire Australian's who you have to check not just for mistakes or corruption, but also government directed malfeasance? From president at linux.org.au Thu Dec 6 15:47:22 2018 From: president at linux.org.au (Linux Australia President) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2018 15:47:22 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Encryption bill and open source In-Reply-To: <20181206005124.af4z764bwwkdk7k4@erisian.com.au> References: <20181206005124.af4z764bwwkdk7k4@erisian.com.au> Message-ID: <8feea8e8-0e5e-d2c4-b994-262cc0cd21ba@linux.org.au> Thanks aj for getting the conversation started. The proposed legislation is deeply flawed, ill-conceived, poorly consulted and no doubt will be improperly executed. The list of submissions to PJCIS [0] is staggering in its volume, how many big players responded, and the overarching message that the AAbill is flawed. What's even more appalling is how the submissions have been resoundingly ignored over vague, specious national security claims. And yes, passing of this bill undoubtedly jeopardises the Australian technology industry. Would improving the state of the art in open source help to defray its effects? Yes, but no-one's going to do it. Open * / free * / libre * groups internationally all face the same set of problems Nadia Eghbal set out in her excellent paper "Roads and bridges" - essentially everyone uses open source software, but no one's paying for it to be maintained [1]. Linux Australia - and LUGs - which are rapidly dying out - don't have the bandwidth to help put together the education and advocacy programs you talk about. Instead, what's happening is that these are becoming the domain of Developer Advocate / Developer Relations roles (full disclosure: I work in a similar role) which are funded by for-profit companies to further the uptake of their product or platform. Community management and community building takes time, energy and effort - and many open source? / Linux User groups - have none left. Where I do see some possibilities is in partnering with digital rights groups - such as EFA or DRW - to put together material which can be used as the basis for talks - easily consumable, easily reused. I've had some very initial conversations with EFA around this - but again this requires people to actually do the work. Perhaps that's something that could be funded under a Grant Request. Looking at platforms and tools, knowledge of GitLab, GitHub, Git, BitBucket etc - is required to effectively review and assure code changes. What we're increasingly seeing in this space is the monetisation of platforms through third party plugins, addons etc that purport to make CI / CD pipelines "easier" and "hassle free" - effectively removing testers further and further away from the codebase itself. Herein lies the great paradox - the easier we make it for people to use, the more we're abstracting it away from the very place that malicious changes are made. Would collective action from technology practitioners help to defray its effects? Yes, but there are significant forces working to stop? this. ITPA, with kudos to Robert Hudson, has been very vocal about its objection to the bill and its consequences, urging members to take action to contact parliamentarians to vote against the bill [2]. The ACS has been less vocal, but did make a submission [3]. Remember that 457/482 visa holders working in IT need to be a member of a "professional association". However, in an era of offshoring, stagnant wages growth, consolidation of technology companies, particularly those with open source leanings (ohai, ex-Red Hatters), individuals will be fearful of non-compliance. Sure, we can ask the community to support people whose livelihoods are threatened, but how many instances will it take before donor fatigue hits in? We see this countless times with Patreon, with Wikipedia's donation requests on every page, and so on. The collective will, I believe, just isn't there. There will always be those brave souls who put themselves out as beacons - and respect to them - but I think generally the tech community has too much to lose. The Google walkouts we've seen in recent times only work because of the specialist talent they have. Imagine an ASX100 company's tech staff walking out like that - next day the IT function is outsourced to India. What would help overturn the bill? Given that the entirety of technical expertise is being ignored, technical explanations won't win. Perhaps a list of the Australian based companies who would be subject to the legislation? A list of companies to use that are _not_ subject to it? It seems even the threat of moving Australian tech jobs overseas is not enough to deter both major political parties. [0] https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Joint/Intelligence_and_Security/TelcoAmendmentBill2018/Submissions [1] https://www.fordfoundation.org/about/library/reports-and-studies/roads-and-bridges-the-unseen-labor-behind-our-digital-infrastructure [2] https://www.technologydecisions.com.au/content/information-technology-professionals-association/article/act-now-help-stop-the-aabill-dead-in-its-tracks-206398004 [3] https://www.aph.gov.au/DocumentStore.ashx?id=b46fc472-5d30-496a-8b74-393e2b80a07a&subId=660366 On 6/12/18 11:51 am, Anthony Towns via linux-aus wrote: > Hey *, > > (Is this still a discussion list? Apologies if not) > > It seems like the Assistance and Access bill is going to pass with > bi-partisan support because apparently national security needs a > Christmas present [0]. Like everyone has already said, this is utterly > unconscionable and a disaster for both Australians' privacy and trust > in Australian IT service providers. > > But maybe (and maybe this is more of a contrarian take than a realistic > one) this is something open source can already protect itself against. The > whole "change the code to insert backdoors and ship it out to customers > without telling them" approach is one that only works if you've got > centralised control of what users run, and nobody able to identify > backdoors (and allowed to object to them) is reviewing the code. > > If you're instead using best practices for open source development, > that's not an issue: to get the backdoor into users hands, you have to: > > a) get the backdoor published as source and passing review, even by > independent co-contributors who might be outside the AA bill's > jurisdiction; or > > b) get the backdoor published as a binary that doesn't match the > published source and hence isn't a reproducible build; and have > user's not build from source and not notice that the build they're > using is non-reproducible > > There's two *really* hard steps there: > > a) getting co-contributors who actively review patches to all the open > source software people use; and > > b) making it so non-technical users can actually benefit from > reproducible builds > > But both those are already problems even with non-state-level > attackers; eg [1] or [2] for (a), and for (b) hopefully it's obvious that > deliberately adding backdoors in binaries is easy if that's what everyone > uses and no one can check it actually matches the published source. > > So maybe we should be thinking about ways of improving the state of > the art in open source, and routing around ridiculous laws, rather than > relying on avoiding ridiculous laws, given the fix is already in? Like, > encouraging LUGs to have hackathons/talks on how to build your own > android system (OS and apps) from source; or encouraging conferences > to have sessions on how devs can find/encourage co-maintainers and do > reviews of patches and dependencies to avoid exploits slipping in? > > I mean, the AA bill is still a horrible idea and both political parties > should have known better [3], but at least open source has *some* > prospect of defending users against it. At least until they talk to > Intel and just backdoor the system over built-in wifi from below the > kernel level of course... > > An alternative approach be for many of us to say "complying with the > AA bill by inserting backdoors is unethical", and to back that up by > supporting those of us who actually resist it, eg by covering legal > costs for devs/admins who break the law by not implementing backdoors > when required, or by revealing their existence; and having a fund to > support their families if they're unable to get paid in the meantime, > etc. If we had a simple, consistent, understandable set of principles > like that, it could be a strong way of preventing lawmaking that goes > against those ethics; in a similar way in which the Hippocratic oath > lets patients generally trust doctors. I'm not what a broadly acceptable > ethical principle would be exactly; if the principle was "software should > serve the end user's interest", that could make it unethical to work > for a whole bunch of data harvesting companies like Google and Facebook, > which... might not be wrong, but probably wouldn't be effective. > > Kind of interesting that the end-to-end principle is topical again > just in time for lca's first return to the South Island of NZ since > Dan Jacobsen's talk on using that philosophy to get a high performance > network stack back at lca 2006... > > Cheers, > aj > > [0] "Assistant Home Affairs Minister Linda Reynolds claimed the > legislation needs to be rushed to help alleviate security threats > over the coming summer break. > > "Christmas is a heightened security issue for us and we need to > make sure people are as safe and as secure as possible," Reynolds > said on Sunday. > > "It is the lives of Australians at risk, because the threat is real." > " -- https://www.zdnet.com/article/coalition-and-labor-strike-deal-on-encryption-legislation/ > > [1] https://it.slashdot.org/story/18/12/01/2217231/nodejs-event-stream-hack-reveals-open-source-developer-infrastructure-exploit > > [2] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2003/02/msg00771.html > > [3] The AA bill seems like a potential disaster for small IT outsourcing > companies. Without the AA bill, you could at least meet the people > involved and say "yeah, they seem trustworthy, I don't think they'll > login as root and read all my email if I get them to run my mail > server". With the AA bill, even otherwise trustworthy people can > be forced to forward all your emails to the govt, so any loss of > trust in the govt's handling of private info seems like it flow > pretty quickly into job losses there, if people start preferring > to outsource to foreign IT companies instead. > > It seems like it could be bad for internal admin jobs too; if eg > the ATO manages to use the bill to get an admin to add a hook to > bcc all company executives' emails to their tax avoidance squad, > which is after all just a 21st century way of investigating potential > crimes, and a budget surplus is probably a national security issue, > right? Why employ an Australian as an admin if they can be forced to > forward your emails to govt agencies on fishing expeditions? Maybe > multinationals who can have admins checking over each others changes > will have less of a problem; but still why hire Australian's who > you have to check not just for mistakes or corruption, but also > government directed malfeasance? > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -- Kathy Reid President Linux Australia 0418 130 636 president at linux.org.au http://linux.org.au Linux Australia Inc GPO Box 4788 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia ABN 56 987 117 479 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh at blemings.org Thu Dec 6 16:19:20 2018 From: hugh at blemings.org (Hugh Blemings) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2018 16:19:20 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Encryption bill and open source In-Reply-To: <8feea8e8-0e5e-d2c4-b994-262cc0cd21ba@linux.org.au> References: <20181206005124.af4z764bwwkdk7k4@erisian.com.au> <8feea8e8-0e5e-d2c4-b994-262cc0cd21ba@linux.org.au> Message-ID: <634fdc00-852f-61c2-8737-6b2cb4412497@blemings.org> Hiya, A timely conversation, one I'm sorry that we find ourselves even having to have at all :( Thank you AJ and Kathy for your considered analysis - fine stuff indeed. One thing I would urge all of you to consider doing is call your local MP. Seriously. Respectfully ask that your views (presumably against) be noted and give one or two reasons why - EFFA have written concisely on this aspect[0]. I say this from the standpoint of having talked to my local MP and the call being respectfully received, noted and being, I gather one of many. Further having had an old high school friend that was once an advisor to a senior minister, his feedback was always that in the main, politicians actually do want to hear what their electorate says - but that most of the time they get one visit/call from their electorate for dozens of lobbyists. So -please- let us by all means continue the timely and worthwhile discourse on linux-aus on what we might be able to do if we have the misfortune of it passing, but in the meantime please make the call! While you are on the phone, please also consider voicing your views on the myriad of other silliness we find ourselves presented with including the all to many far more directly humanitarian matters - some examples [1][2]. Cheers, Hugh [0] https://digitalrights.good.do/aabill_say_no_efa/phone/ [1] https://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/refugees/let-s-push-mps-to-back-the-bill/push-mps-to-vote-with-their-conscience [2] https://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/women-s-rights/don-t-waste-100-million/100-million-for-family-violence-great-but--2 From mark.phillips at automatedtestsystems.com.au Thu Dec 6 17:35:16 2018 From: mark.phillips at automatedtestsystems.com.au (Mark Phillips) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2018 17:35:16 +1100 (AEDT) Subject: [Linux-aus] Encryption bill and open source In-Reply-To: <634fdc00-852f-61c2-8737-6b2cb4412497@blemings.org> References: <20181206005124.af4z764bwwkdk7k4@erisian.com.au> <8feea8e8-0e5e-d2c4-b994-262cc0cd21ba@linux.org.au> <634fdc00-852f-61c2-8737-6b2cb4412497@blemings.org> Message-ID: <410899543.325191.30192531-b708-4a23-b20c-e6f145fa49b2.open-xchange@webmailox.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shirro at shirro.com Thu Dec 6 18:14:33 2018 From: shirro at shirro.com (Paul Shirren) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2018 17:44:33 +1030 Subject: [Linux-aus] Encryption bill and open source In-Reply-To: <634fdc00-852f-61c2-8737-6b2cb4412497@blemings.org> References: <20181206005124.af4z764bwwkdk7k4@erisian.com.au> <8feea8e8-0e5e-d2c4-b994-262cc0cd21ba@linux.org.au> <634fdc00-852f-61c2-8737-6b2cb4412497@blemings.org> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shirro at shirro.com Thu Dec 6 18:30:57 2018 From: shirro at shirro.com (Paul Shirren) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2018 18:00:57 +1030 Subject: [Linux-aus] Encryption bill and open source In-Reply-To: References: <20181206005124.af4z764bwwkdk7k4@erisian.com.au> <8feea8e8-0e5e-d2c4-b994-262cc0cd21ba@linux.org.au> <634fdc00-852f-61c2-8737-6b2cb4412497@blemings.org> Message-ID: <3b95c125-62ad-7daf-d595-3881fade3bb1@shirro.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aj at erisian.com.au Thu Dec 6 20:20:51 2018 From: aj at erisian.com.au (Anthony Towns) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2018 19:20:51 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Encryption bill and open source In-Reply-To: <634fdc00-852f-61c2-8737-6b2cb4412497@blemings.org> <8feea8e8-0e5e-d2c4-b994-262cc0cd21ba@linux.org.au> Message-ID: <20181206092051.bst7yy2zjwniohmu@erisian.com.au> On Thu, Dec 06, 2018 at 03:47:22PM +1100, Linux Australia President via linux-aus wrote: > Thanks aj for getting the conversation started. > The proposed legislation is deeply flawed, [...] To me, it seems clear that's irrelevant; the consultation phase was rushed and pro-forma with comments not being given any serious consideration, and the legislative phase is looking the same way, with an emphasis on getting it through for Christmas as if that's going to have any immediate effect. My guess is the new Morrison government isn't strong enough to stand up to the police and intelligence agencies, and apparently Labor doesn't want to choose the soft-on-terror side with an election coming up either. I'd be pleased to find out I'm wrong, but I don't think there's any chance of a last minute legislative save here (or a judicial or public service save after the fact), and in any case in the hour or since I postponed this message, it's apparently passed the senate without any amendments? But hey, YMMV of course. > Would improving the state of the art in open source help to defray its effects? > Yes, but no-one's going to do it. Well, not with that attitude, certainly... Here's some projects already working on reproducible builds -- there's a lot: https://reproducible-builds.org/who/ They're funded with $300k USD as of last month, according to https://reproducible-builds.org/news/2018/11/08/reproducible-builds-joins-software-freedom-concervancy/ . > Looking at platforms and tools, knowledge of GitLab, GitHub, Git, BitBucket etc > - is required to effectively review and assure code changes. What we're > increasingly seeing in this space is the monetisation of platforms through > third party plugins, addons etc that purport to make CI / CD pipelines "easier" > and "hassle free" - effectively removing testers further and further away from > the codebase itself. Herein lies the great paradox - the easier we make it for > people to use, the more we're abstracting it away from the very place that > malicious changes are made. So, I feel like my beard is still the wrong colour for this, but the ease with which you can review code now compared to when I started with open source is a bajillion miles ahead; and that's comparing with free software at the time, comparing it with the proprietary software (or shareware even) that people actually used obviously puts it infinitely far ahead. Sure, there's a step backwards now and then, but there's been a lot more steps forward. The state of the art isn't perfect, but it's pretty good, and it's also the best we've ever had. > Would collective action from technology practitioners help to defray its > effects? > Yes, but there are significant forces working to stop? this. Anything worthwhile has its detractors. Free software and open source certainly did. > Sure, we can > ask the community to support people whose livelihoods are threatened, but how > many instances will it take before donor fatigue hits in? It seems like it could pretty easily be supported by membership in a professional organisation (with support being available only to members). Perhaps that would be an actual reason to join ACS... I don't think it'd be fatiguing to regularly pay, what, $500-$1k a year and see that money getting spent on legal defences for people acting ethically. Arguably complying with the AA bill violates the "You will strive to enhance the quality of life of those affected by your work" and "You will be honest in your representation of .. products" sections of the ACS code of ethics, for instance. > What would help overturn the bill? Like I said, I don't think that's realistic -- lives are at stake! -- and therefore not a good use of time or energy. Equally, I think amping up the rhetoric about the horrors that await will backfire; the negatives won't all happen, and even the ones that do won't happen for a while, and that will get used as evidence that all the objectors were just scaremongering and that both parties were right to listen to the police and security agencies and forge ahead. On Thu, Dec 06, 2018 at 04:19:20PM +1100, Hugh Blemings via linux-aus wrote: > I say this from the standpoint of having talked to my local MP and the call > being respectfully received, noted and being, I gather one of many. At the point when industry objections are being overruled, I don't think talking to local MPs will have much real effect. If people were willing to change their vote over things like this, maybe that would be different, but I think most everyone here cares more about the usual hot button issues like refugees or the economy, and won't change their vote if whichever party they think is worse on those issues starts doing good on tech issues. So the calculus for the major parties ends up being "look strong on terror and politely ignore the whiny tech people". Cheers, aj From shirro at shirro.com Thu Dec 6 20:32:18 2018 From: shirro at shirro.com (Paul Shirren) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2018 20:02:18 +1030 Subject: [Linux-aus] Encryption bill and open source In-Reply-To: <20181206092051.bst7yy2zjwniohmu@erisian.com.au> References: <20181206092051.bst7yy2zjwniohmu@erisian.com.au> Message-ID: I am wondering it Linux Australia should try and get some clarification about the responsibilities of open source contributors under the legislation? Would they have to comply with a technical assistance notice? Would volunteers be treated the same as people paid to contribute to projects? Does it matter that open source projects usually have a global user base. What if the copyright is owned by others including non-Australians? What about people packaging others code for a distro? From president at linux.org.au Thu Dec 6 21:21:57 2018 From: president at linux.org.au (Linux Australia President) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2018 21:21:57 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Encryption bill and open source In-Reply-To: References: <20181206092051.bst7yy2zjwniohmu@erisian.com.au> Message-ID: Sure - volunteers to take this on very warmly welcomed. Would improving the state of the art in open source help to defray its effects? Yes, but no-one's going to do it. I don't have time to do it, and neither does the rest of Council. This is precisely my point. AJ is right to say it's the wrong attitude - so someone, please go ahead and prove me wrong and take ownership of this task. Best, Kathy On 6/12/18 8:32 pm, Paul Shirren via linux-aus wrote: > I am wondering it Linux Australia should try and get some clarification > about the responsibilities of open source contributors under the > legislation? > > Would they have to comply with a technical assistance notice? Would > volunteers be treated the same as people paid to contribute to projects? > > Does it matter that open source projects usually have a global user > base. What if the copyright is owned by others including > non-Australians? What about people packaging others code for a distro? > = -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From russell-linuxaus at stuart.id.au Thu Dec 6 22:59:09 2018 From: russell-linuxaus at stuart.id.au (Russell Stuart) Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2018 21:59:09 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Encryption bill and open source In-Reply-To: <634fdc00-852f-61c2-8737-6b2cb4412497@blemings.org> References: <20181206005124.af4z764bwwkdk7k4@erisian.com.au> <8feea8e8-0e5e-d2c4-b994-262cc0cd21ba@linux.org.au> <634fdc00-852f-61c2-8737-6b2cb4412497@blemings.org> Message-ID: <1544097549.6380.5.camel@stuart.id.au> On Thu, 2018-12-06 at 16:19 +1100, Hugh Blemings via linux-aus wrote: > One thing I would urge all of you to consider doing is call your > local MP.??Seriously.??Respectfully ask that your views (presumably > against) be noted and give one or two reasons why - EFFA have written > concisely on this aspect[0]. With due respect to Hugh, I suspect there are quite a few here who don't know what is being proposed will refrain from contacting their MP on the grounds they don't really have a clue what they are talking about. The fix is easy: read the 400 odd pages of dull legalise the government has published at [0]. If for some reason you don't want to do that, here is my take (which turned out to be only slightly shorter). Beware I've take considerably liberties in translating [0] into what I think is the intended implementation. The problem they are trying to solve is the internet is going dark "post Snowden". "Going dark" refers to existing legislation when allows them to ask Telco's (think Telstra, TPG, Optus, ...) to place taps on their network so information passing through it goes to the Law Enforcement Agencies (think police, AFP, ASIO). The problem is post Snowden that information is now encrypted, so it is no longer useful to them. "Post Snowden" is meant to obfuscate the real cause: to wit, at a security conference NSA presented some slides of places that had put taps and there happen to be some Google Security engineers in the audience who recognised the place as one of Google's own interconnects. Apparently Google was pissed, so pissed they pretty much single handedly forced the the internet to encrypt everything by penalising non https URL's in their search results. The use of "single handedly" is meant to signal to you that I am indeed doing as I warned and applying some of my own spin here: obviously at the very least "Lets Encrypt" also had a hand in moving the web to https. The first idea that came to the LEA's collective minds was to mandate a backdoor in encryption, and many high ranking police officers have asked for just that in public. But the suggestion didn't go down so well, probably because it was tried before and was by-passed by someone walking through customers the PERL code for RSA on their t-shirt. This is the second attempt. It is based on the observation that the information must be unencrypted at the end points: ie, when human sender composes it, and when the intended recipients read it. The Assistance and Access bill just extends the existing legislation from the Telco's to all software providers, so that the LEA's can force any software or hardware provider to create "tap", and install it for them at the end point, where the data isn't encrypted. Like the existing taps, it must be done in secret: a provider ordered to do this can not reveal it to anyone. The current legislation has been in use for a long time. From the perspective of the LEA's and the politicians, it has proved an effective tool for law enforcement while having enough checks and balances to ensure it hasn't been abused. For example, it explicitly forbids mass surveillance: these each taps must be authorised, they must target particular individuals who must be suspected of committing a crime and each one must be authorised by a judge who checks these things. These existing protections will apply to the new taps enabled by the?Assistance and Access bill. Now onto the implementation details. The word "Assistance" in the bill's name is another piece of spin. The bill is worded as if the software providers may be asked to give "assistance" in creating the taps. The bill helpfully lists many kinds of assistance that might be asked for - like API's and schematics. I not sure why as does as in reality they can ask for anything as the bill very noticability doesn't place any limit what the software providers can be asked to do, provided they pay for it. As an example, the bill says the tap must be undetectable by the user. This is at odds with Android's current power monitoring notifications. Without special "assistance" I would get a notification that the "ASIO Remote Spy Tool" is running in the background and consuming power. In fact without special assistance, I would get notified "ASIO Remote Spy Tool" wanted permission to access everything. If they are going to re- write the internals of Android, so for example the SELINUX protections provided by the kernel are by-passed, it's going to take a little more than the provision of a few API's. Since SELINUX was created by NSA (with able assistance from our very own Russell Coker) I doubt it can be by-passed by a normal application - although assistance could be demanded from Russell for that. (We would never know.) Which brings us to the next word in the bill's title, "Access". Access means "you will download our taps onto the devices for us". In other words, if they want to spy on me they ask Google to auto download their taps onto my phone via the app store. This isn't a big ask. I can get the app store to download any application to a phone on the other side of the planet via a web page now. (The act doesn't say this of course - but it is very explicit in saying the tap must be able to be installed remotely, and silently. And it must send the data it gathers securely back to the LEA.) Try as I might, I can't shake the image of a bored police officer lazing back in his chain in his Canberra office, pressing a button, and seeing a live feed of some perp's camera in a escort agency appear on his monitor. But lets put such wild thoughts aside, as the legal checks and balances in the bill are there to ensure that can't happen. The way the Assistance and Access bill is imagined, it will be _very_ precisely targeted: - A person suspected of a crime will be identified. - A judge will vet LEA's reasoning. - If the judge approves lots of legally weighty papers are signed by great numbers of very important people. - On presentation of said paper the person employed to press the "install tap" button will check it carefully, and then enter the IMEI, UUID or whatever, and press the button. - The tap will be installed, and data will flow to Canberra. There is even a provision for transparency. After a suitable time has elapsed (potentially years), we get to know how many times the button was pressed (and nothing else). The bill has specific wording to assure us it can not happen any other way. It explicitly prohibits LEA's from asking for a systemic weakness. A systemic weakness is one that weakens security of all of us. A cryptography back door would weaken cryptography in general, so that is out. Presumably introducing a special public key signature that allows an application to by-pass SELINUX also weakens the entire system so it would be out too. I used the word "presumably" because as the bill stands it does not define "systemic weakness" so it could have been potentially weaselled away, however Labor has insisted that loop hole be fixed before they will accept it. I'm guessing the supporters of the bill get a lot of confidence from their faith in Australia's democracy and institutions. From their point of view even if the bill does go awry it will be fixed without too much damage occurring. My guess is that belief so strong any argument's about creating a surveillance or police state will get you branded as a nutter. Perhaps they are right. I have enormous confidence in Australia's institutions myself. What makes me uneasy is the bill does not seem to limit the sort of information that can be collected. It's no longer just email, SMS and voice. Its your GPS position and speed in real time, your microphone, your cameras, the MAC's of other devices around you, your banking passwords (as they can see you type them). And your Tor browsing habits and microcode Intel installed into its CPU. And it isn't just your phone - it's anything that auto installs software patches. So it's your PC, your TV, your car, your router, your watch, my vacuum, and perhaps even Karen Sanders pace maker. They will probably say most of these things aren't their intention right now. But the bill doesn't say that. They also said they intended to keep our meta data private, and now it's available to man+dog. There is no hiding from this sort of surveillance. It isn't just the stuff we would encrypt. It's the stuff we would never write down or record at all. It's your pins, lastpass and GPG passwords, your Debian repository signatures. It's boardroom conversations about billion dollar takeovers. It's not just your device you have to worry about - it's every one in the room, and the security camera behind the pot plant pointed at your keyboard. We've got TV shows like Person of Interest exploring of what a world like this might look like, but they got it wrong. In this one (only?) instance TV didn't go far enough - it really didn't scratch the surface of what a world without secrets would look like. For example secrets are a major way we hold people accountable: only your credit card knows secure key, it will only lock with the pin, only you know the pin therefore you authorised the expenditure. In fact the bill does not discuss risks at all. Those risks it does seek to mitigate are only those that can be solved with law and order. I guess the mentality behind it is every risk can be managed by a "sneak an unauthorised peek and we will crush you and throw away the key" strategy. To be fair, it's kept murder at workable rates for centuries - which is something that should inspire some faith in the system. Unfortunately, law and order has stopped working for some edge cases in today's world. Sending spam is against the law, yet over 1/2 the email travelling across the wire is spam. I have no doubt the law enforcement officers receive the same amount of spam I do - and I have no doubt they also given up on law and order and don't report it. Attempts to hack my VOIP servers is illegal, yet it happens so quickly the trace in my logs makes debugging legitimate problems almost impossible if I don't ignore the attempts, which of course I do. Taking Sony down was illegal yet no one is in jail. Stealing the EternalBlue exploit the NSA had developed was illegal as was the 10's of thousands of routers it was used to hack, I wonder who the NSA reported the crime to? I saw a similar point being made in the senate hearings on the Assistance and Access bill [1]. It was like the proverbial elephant in the room made a surprise appearance - everybody thought there must be something they were missing and was keen to move on. They were missing something. I'm sure after reflecting on it, and if they didn't reflect they were told by ASIO, the police, and the ASD this would be very well guarded facility, and the people who do it have a very good track record government secrets (the BOM hack [2] and missing filing cabinets notwithstanding [3]). Indeed, I have no doubt no effort will be spared once they realise what they have created. Perhaps unbeknowns to them, they will create something worth a huge amount of money. Knowing trade secrets is worth millions, as is knowing what the reserve bank governor will say tomorrow. Knowing a BHP takeover is about to happen is worth billions. Knowing all these things without anybody knowing you know gives you the potential to earn trillions before you destroy the economy. Still, there are other unimaginable things, right? What is in Fort Knox is unimaginable, or at least was once. Yet they kept it safe. It was safe because blowing a hole in Fort Knox is bound to be noticed by a whole pile of people, some of whom couldn't be corrupted for love or money. And even if the hole wasn't noticed, someone is probably going to notice the gold is gone and the hounds would be unleashed in very short order. Nobody has to blow a hole in ASIO to use this thing. The reality is the companies they compel will want as little to do with it as possible. When the duly authorised important man pushes the button to infect someone with a tap, that will probably be the last human involved in the chain. Thereafter it will be managed by software. Probably proprietary software our government, LEA's and judges will never be allowed to see. In fact not just software, but software stacks with each level written by lots of different programmers in different countries, all running in monolithic kernels where every line of code has access to everything. It will be big complex code with bugs, bugs that must be patched regularly. If the price of any one of these people is found and they send a copy of some data somewhere, no one will know. Unlike Fort Knox, data doesn't change when it is copied. The thing they didn't notice is they are vulnerable to the same attack they are proposing to use on us. The feature they probably love - being able to launch it from the safety of an office also applies. The attackers probably won't be within reach of their laws, as it can come from anywhere on the planet. Or possibly their own home router, hacked with EternalBlue. And the reward for pull this off this is almost unimaginably huge. Since I wrote this to give you ammunition, I have one final round to add. A common retort from the LEA's is: well we need this information, do you know of any other way to get it. The answer they usually get is "no". A "yes" answer is: add one more element to the legislation. Make mandatory to get physical access to the device to install your taps. It could be a USB connection, opening it and shorting a pin, a special NFC device. It doesn't matter. What matters is it requires several people to cooperate with the venture to effect something in the real world, something that could be noticed. You will be able to do it once or twice and not be noticed: but doing it enough to break an entire country is near impossible. [0] https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Bills_Legislation/Bills_Search_Results/Result?bId=r6195 [1] http://parlview.aph.gov.au/mediaPlayer.php?videoID=427993 (downloadable) [2] https://www.abc.net.au/news/7923770 [3] https://www.abc.net.au/news/9168442 From aj at erisian.com.au Fri Dec 7 02:14:40 2018 From: aj at erisian.com.au (Anthony Towns) Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2018 01:14:40 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Encryption bill and open source In-Reply-To: References: <20181206092051.bst7yy2zjwniohmu@erisian.com.au> Message-ID: <20181206151440.kdszeixqybyitjb6@erisian.com.au> On Thu, Dec 06, 2018 at 09:21:57PM +1100, Linux Australia President via linux-aus wrote: > Sure - volunteers to take this on very warmly welcomed. > Would improving the state of the art in open source help to defray its effects? > Yes, but no-one's going to do it. > I don't have time to do it, and neither does the rest of Council. This is > precisely my point. Oh, sorry, I should've expected that interpretation and avoided it in advance. What I'm thinking of is more that LA (the council, but the membership more broadly) just encourage people to focus on various measures to ensure trustworthiness of the software users run, and the vendors that provide that software. So encouraging LCA and PyCon and the like to have BoFs or suggest the topic in their CFPs, or encouraging LUGs to host talks or tutorials on the topic if you're talking to them, or even just retweeting people who do have novel, helpful things to say about it. For instance: - anyone running stock Android or iOS on their phone or table is vulnerable to vendor backdoors; is it practical to build your own version of Android from source to avoid this? Personally, I've been waiting since last LCA for Marco to give a talk at HUMBUG about LineageOS which maybe solves this... - anyone running any Android or iPhone apps by Australian authors are potentially vulnerable to backdoors due to the new legislation; can you use fdroid or some other open source "app store" to at least theoretically avoid that risk? Are there any app stores that are both open source-y and can accept payment via Bitcoin, say? - is there any realistic best practices for code verification, so that deliberate backdoors can be detected before you install a binary or get exploited? in particular ones that square with things like pypi or nodejs or java or ruby dependency systems where you're randomly installing bunches of easily updatable code from internet repositories? - is it realistic to do any of the things everyone relies on centralised trusted third parties for, ourselves? like Google Maps' location history, or facebook/instagram/snapchat's photo and story sharing, or hangouts/skype/zoom videochat, or signal/whatsapp/telegram/wickr/whatever "private" messaging, or dropbox/evernote/gdrive/etc file storage, or even gmail? Every trusted third party has always been a security hole, but now you're not only trusting the nominal provider, but every Australian security dept too (except the anti-corruption ones, apparently?). Freedom Box was meant to help with this, but never really did afaik... I know enough to ask the questions, and to know that I don't have good enough answers to any of those; if someone actually knows better about any of them, I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter, so to speak. Or attend an impromptu BOF or similar at lca or elsewhere? But maybe nobody knows better, and lots of people know less and I should be offering the BOF? I have no idea. > On 6/12/18 8:32 pm, Paul Shirren via linux-aus wrote: > I am wondering it Linux Australia should try and get some clarification > about the responsibilities of open source contributors under the > legislation? > Would they have to comply with a technical assistance notice? Would > volunteers be treated the same as people paid to contribute to projects? It applies to anyone who even has a website... The objectives can be "enforcing the criminal law and laws imposing pecuniary penalties" (so, by my reading, traffic fines and fines for your dog not being leashed totally qualify...), or "assisting the enforcement of the criminal laws in force in a foreign country", or "safeguarding national security". There are civil penalties for: * aiding, abetting, counselling or procuring non-compliance with assistance and capability notices * inducing (by threat or promise) non-compliance * knowingly concerned in or a party to non-compliance * conspiring with others to effect non-compliance If I'm reading it right, penalties are $50k for individuals, and $10M for companies. But it's a defence if complying requires doing something in a foreign country and complying would be an offence in that country. If you (as a website owner given a notice) or anyone in the applicable govt agencies (the ones giving the notices) reveal any of the info in relation to the notices, then it's 5 years imprisonment. However you can do so if authorised (ie, loophole for the govt) or if a State Gov requires it, or if you need legal advice. Disclosure between intelligence agencies is also fine. You can also disclose the number of notices you've received in a 6+ month period, so warrant canaries should be possible. Costs for the work you have to do in complying are covered; but you're not allowed to profit; which probably means if you're a sole trader that your time isn't compensated at all... There's also "section 64A" (of the surveillance devices act?) which allows LEOs to ask a judge for an assistance order that requires a specified person to provide info to allow them to "access or copy data in a computer that's subject of a warrant or emergency authorisation", or to "convert that data into a form intelligible to a LEO"; if the person is the computer's owner, or their employee or a contractor or a sysadmin or anyone who's used the computer. There's a bunch of sections which set penalties at 5 years prison and/or $63k, or 10 years prison and/or $126k; but I can't tell what they're actually for from the bill text. > Does it matter that open source projects usually have a global user > base. What if the copyright is owned by others including > non-Australians? What about people packaging others code for a distro? AFAICT, they can require a company to insert backdoors and provide encryption keys, as long as they pay costs (probably including salaries for time spent). They can require individual devs to apply patches to the code; and can require admins to reveal or update keys/binaries or anything else admins are technically capable of. Maybe it would be a defense that you have to ship the source if you're modifying a GPLed binary that you don't have full copyright control of (particularly if your hosting site is foreign?), but if you're just revealing a crypto key or you're given obfusticated source to ship, I think you're out of luck. Being able to make pull requests, but not commit directly, seems like it might be an effective defense. Cheers, aj From cjdp at cjdpenterprises.com Fri Dec 7 02:59:44 2018 From: cjdp at cjdpenterprises.com (C J du Preez) Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2018 02:29:44 +1030 Subject: [Linux-aus] Encryption bill and open source In-Reply-To: <20181206151440.kdszeixqybyitjb6@erisian.com.au> References: <20181206092051.bst7yy2zjwniohmu@erisian.com.au> <20181206151440.kdszeixqybyitjb6@erisian.com.au> Message-ID: > For instance: > > - anyone running stock Android or iOS on their phone or table is > vulnerable to vendor backdoors; is it practical to build your own > version of Android from source to avoid this? Personally, I've been > waiting since last LCA for Marco to give a talk at HUMBUG about > LineageOS which maybe solves this... right?> > > - anyone running any Android or iPhone apps by Australian authors > are potentially vulnerable to backdoors due to the new legislation; > can you use fdroid or some other open source "app store" to at least > theoretically avoid that risk? Are there any app stores that are > both open source-y and can accept payment via Bitcoin, say? > > - is there any realistic best practices for code verification, so that > deliberate backdoors can be detected before you install a binary or > get exploited? in particular ones that square with things like pypi > or nodejs or java or ruby dependency systems where you're randomly > installing bunches of easily updatable code from internet > repositories? > > - is it realistic to do any of the things everyone relies on centralised > trusted third parties for, ourselves? like Google Maps' > location history, or facebook/instagram/snapchat's photo > and story sharing, or hangouts/skype/zoom videochat, or > signal/whatsapp/telegram/wickr/whatever "private" messaging, or > dropbox/evernote/gdrive/etc file storage, or even gmail? Every trusted > third party has always been a security hole, but now you're not only > trusting the nominal provider, but every Australian security dept too > (except the anti-corruption ones, apparently?). Freedom Box was meant > to help with this, but never really did afaik... > > I know enough to ask the questions, and to know that I don't have good > enough answers to any of those; if someone actually knows better about > any of them, I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter, so to speak. Or > attend an impromptu BOF or similar at lca or elsewhere? But maybe nobody > knows better, and lots of people know less and I should be offering the > BOF? I have no idea. > Some options: A phone: https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/ Decentralized chat you can host: https://matrix.org/blog/home/ An OS: https://www.qubes-os.org/ Recommendations for privacy tools and services: https://www.privacytools.io/ https://thatoneprivacysite.net/ From paul at gear.dyndns.org Fri Dec 7 09:19:02 2018 From: paul at gear.dyndns.org (Paul Gear) Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2018 08:19:02 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Encryption bill and open source In-Reply-To: <1544097549.6380.5.camel@stuart.id.au> References: <20181206005124.af4z764bwwkdk7k4@erisian.com.au> <8feea8e8-0e5e-d2c4-b994-262cc0cd21ba@linux.org.au> <634fdc00-852f-61c2-8737-6b2cb4412497@blemings.org> <1544097549.6380.5.camel@stuart.id.au> Message-ID: <443bc489-6626-80eb-f993-fe55a85f8706@gear.dyndns.org> On 6/12/18 9:59 pm, Russell Stuart via linux-aus wrote: > On Thu, 2018-12-06 at 16:19 +1100, Hugh Blemings via linux-aus wrote: >> One thing I would urge all of you to consider doing is call your >> local MP.??Seriously.??Respectfully ask that your views (presumably >> against) be noted and give one or two reasons why - EFFA have written >> concisely on this aspect[0]. > With due respect to Hugh, I suspect there are quite a few here who > don't know what is being proposed will refrain from contacting their MP > on the grounds they don't really have a clue what they are talking > about. The fix is easy: read the 400 odd pages of dull legalise the > government has published at [0]. Is there still time to call our MPs?? (Not being a mainstream news watcher/reader, I don't know the best source to find this out.) If so, it would be great to have something to say more than "I oppose this bill and the damage it will do" as suggested by [1].? Going to a politician without a clear message is a recipe for getting ignored, so it would be great if we could get together a list of the most important talking points. Here's my start: 1. The measures will be ineffective, because the terrorists and paedophiles will switch to technologies not covered by Australian law. 2. The measures will be abused by those in LEAs, as has already been the case with data retention. 3. The measures put IT workers in Australia in untenable positions. 4. The measures put IT companies based in Australia at a competitive disadvantage. 5. Any vulnerabilities successfully introduced into products subject to Australian law will be abused by 3rd parties not subject to Australian law. Paul 1. https://digitalrights.good.do/aabill_say_no_efa/phone/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shirro at shirro.com Fri Dec 7 09:43:23 2018 From: shirro at shirro.com (Paul Shirren) Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2018 09:13:23 +1030 Subject: [Linux-aus] Encryption bill and open source In-Reply-To: <443bc489-6626-80eb-f993-fe55a85f8706@gear.dyndns.org> References: <20181206005124.af4z764bwwkdk7k4@erisian.com.au> <8feea8e8-0e5e-d2c4-b994-262cc0cd21ba@linux.org.au> <634fdc00-852f-61c2-8737-6b2cb4412497@blemings.org> <1544097549.6380.5.camel@stuart.id.au> <443bc489-6626-80eb-f993-fe55a85f8706@gear.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <09e0d963-84ba-1f73-3d9e-aaf40778a1f9@shirro.com> On 7/12/18 8:49 am, Paul Gear via linux-aus wrote: > Is there still time to call our MPs?? (Not being a mainstream news > watcher/reader, I don't know the best source to find this out.) I guess it never hurts but it is hard to see how it makes a difference. This was posted on Reddit by user pwnies: > For what it's worth, myself and some colleagues read through?every > single letter written during the open comment period > . > We wanted to know what percentage of people agreed with the bill so > we?tallied up the results in a spreadsheet > . > > Out of all 343 responses,?only one > ?was > in support of the bill. When it comes time to vote again, remember > that on a bill related to technology nearly every MP ignored the > feedback from: > > * Australian citizens (not a single individual who wrote in was in > support) > * Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, Atlassian (one of the biggest tech > companies in Australia), and every other member of?the Software > Alliance . > * The Internet Architecture Board, Internet Australia, the > Australian Information Industry Alliance, the Australian Human > Rights Commission, and countless other oversight organisations. > * MIT's Internet Policy Research Initiative and countless other > people who have doctorates/immediate experience in this field. > > And instead represented a single church in Tasmania's stance on a bill > completely unrelated to them. > https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/a3j466/assistance_and_access_bill_2018_just_passed_the/eb75et6/ From russell-linuxaus at stuart.id.au Fri Dec 7 11:15:32 2018 From: russell-linuxaus at stuart.id.au (Russell Stuart) Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2018 10:15:32 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Encryption bill and open source In-Reply-To: <443bc489-6626-80eb-f993-fe55a85f8706@gear.dyndns.org> References: <20181206005124.af4z764bwwkdk7k4@erisian.com.au> <8feea8e8-0e5e-d2c4-b994-262cc0cd21ba@linux.org.au> <634fdc00-852f-61c2-8737-6b2cb4412497@blemings.org> <1544097549.6380.5.camel@stuart.id.au> <443bc489-6626-80eb-f993-fe55a85f8706@gear.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1544141732.6768.3.camel@stuart.id.au> On Fri, 2018-12-07 at 08:19 +1000, Paul Gear via linux-aus wrote: > Is there still time to call our MPs?? (Not being a mainstream news > watcher/reader, I don't know the best source to find this out.) The bill has been passed by both houses without Labor's promised amendments, so for example there is no definition of what a systemic weakness might be. It is now effectively law. Any efforts you make will be to get the law changed. > The measures will be ineffective, because the terrorists and > paedophiles will switch to technologies not covered by Australian > law. This is harder than you might expect. The issue is software comes in stacks, and generally bits lower down in the stack have access to everything above them. For example, you might decide to use Signal instead of Google Hangouts because while Google has a presence in Australia and will almost certainly comply with any legal request, Signal is open source, not based in Australia, and Moxie Marlinspike seems a man of some conviction. The problem is Signal runs in Android's JVM, and so uses java libraries provided by Google to read the keyboard and display the messages. OK, so we will re-write Signal to use its own libraries. But you are still running in the JVM, so all data will be visible to that. OK, so you re-write it in C. In that case you will be using the C POSIX library (as was the JVM and the Java Libraries), and it has access to everything. So bugger it, my new Signal application won't use a library - it will talk directly to the kernel. Well, Google controls the kernel. So I will build my own kernel. I'm not sure what happens in ARM land, but in Intel land the CPU runs it's own kernel in the Management Engine. (ARM provides similar kernels running in what they call a Trust Zone, but I'm not familiar with them.) The whole point of this Management Engine is to allow the sysadmin to take over the machine when the OS fails. It's sees the screen, keyboard, allows you to load firmware and modify disks. This stuff is _very_ hard to escape. But lets say you put in a guts effort and create your own secure world with a dumb TV, driving a VW Beetle without a radio, and of course no internet connection because you can't trust the modem in whatever NTU you have to use. The problems remains that you have to interact with others, and when you talk to them their devices can record you say, when you see them they can video you, when you email them their can read your emails, when you travel with them their GPS will know the position of your phone MAC address and bluetooth. The root cause is communication of this has two endpoints, and you can only secure yours. We sink or swim together on this one. > The measures put IT companies based in Australia at a competitive > disadvantage. This is a serious issue. The senate committee heard testimony from Mr Andrew Wilson, Chief Executive Officer of Senetas. It was his testimony I posted a link to earlier. Senetas makes encryption equipment that is exported around the world. It is used by the Israeli parliament, for example. The one thing a company that exports equipment to people like the Israeli's is the possibly of a foreign government controlled back door inserted into their equipment. One of the suppliers to?Senetas wrote a submission effectively saying "hey, you could send these guys broke, and that would break me too". The committee didn't sound particularly sympathetic, and given the bill was passed without amendments I guess they weren't. I presume the attitude is "maybe it's true, maybe not, but its not a big deal. If we end up sending a few firms broke we can always patch the bill". That's an attitude you should share. The law is not something set in stone. In particular politicians are the people who change the laws - it's their day job. To them it's not so much stone as putty that can be moulded, sculptured and refined. The first attempt is never the final attempt. Finally, here is are of some of people who took the time out of their day to appear before an Australian Senate committee and be grilled. I don't know what they said (the video of their testimony is available online if you are interested), but my guess is they were all ignored: - Mr Matthew Carling, Cisco, Security Architect - Mr Daniel J. Weitzner, Founding Director ? MIT Internet Policy Research Initiative - Mr Martin Thomson, Member, Internet Architecture Board - Dr Elizabeth Coombs, University of Malta, UN Rapporteur on privacy From mark.phillips at automatedtestsystems.com.au Fri Dec 7 14:09:03 2018 From: mark.phillips at automatedtestsystems.com.au (Mark Phillips) Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2018 14:09:03 +1100 (AEDT) Subject: [Linux-aus] Encryption bill and open source In-Reply-To: <1544141732.6768.3.camel@stuart.id.au> References: <20181206005124.af4z764bwwkdk7k4@erisian.com.au> <8feea8e8-0e5e-d2c4-b994-262cc0cd21ba@linux.org.au> <634fdc00-852f-61c2-8737-6b2cb4412497@blemings.org> <1544097549.6380.5.camel@stuart.id.au> <443bc489-6626-80eb-f993-fe55a85f8706@gear.dyndns.org> <1544141732.6768.3.camel@stuart.id.au> Message-ID: <1438346436.9055844.6736bd81-44ad-4293-b489-d7be6c515bfc.open-xchange@webmailox.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark.phillips at automatedtestsystems.com.au Fri Dec 7 14:16:14 2018 From: mark.phillips at automatedtestsystems.com.au (Mark Phillips) Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2018 14:16:14 +1100 (AEDT) Subject: [Linux-aus] Encryption bill and open source In-Reply-To: <1544141732.6768.3.camel@stuart.id.au> References: <20181206005124.af4z764bwwkdk7k4@erisian.com.au> <8feea8e8-0e5e-d2c4-b994-262cc0cd21ba@linux.org.au> <634fdc00-852f-61c2-8737-6b2cb4412497@blemings.org> <1544097549.6380.5.camel@stuart.id.au> <443bc489-6626-80eb-f993-fe55a85f8706@gear.dyndns.org> <1544141732.6768.3.camel@stuart.id.au> Message-ID: <1360972528.9056094.6736bd81-44ad-4293-b489-d7be6c515bfc.open-xchange@webmailox.com.au> > On 07 December 2018 at 11:15 Russell Stuart via linux-aus > wrote: > > The law is not something set in > stone. In particular politicians are the people who change the laws - > it's their day job. To them it's not so much stone as putty that can > be moulded, sculptured and refined. The first attempt is never the > final attempt. > This is not a technical problem. It is a legal problem and thus must be contested through legal means or through adverse publicity. Publicity Financial Bank transfers are made safe through secure transactions Secure transactions use some form of encryption. Secure transactions is now broken through this legislation Your bank accounts are now at risk. ( this would probably be the most effective to bring home the issues with the legislation.) Defence From mark.phillips at automatedtestsystems.com.au Fri Dec 7 14:19:35 2018 From: mark.phillips at automatedtestsystems.com.au (Mark Phillips) Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2018 14:19:35 +1100 (AEDT) Subject: [Linux-aus] Encryption bill and open source In-Reply-To: <1360972528.9056094.6736bd81-44ad-4293-b489-d7be6c515bfc.open-xchange@webmailox.com.au> References: <20181206005124.af4z764bwwkdk7k4@erisian.com.au> <8feea8e8-0e5e-d2c4-b994-262cc0cd21ba@linux.org.au> <634fdc00-852f-61c2-8737-6b2cb4412497@blemings.org> <1544097549.6380.5.camel@stuart.id.au> <443bc489-6626-80eb-f993-fe55a85f8706@gear.dyndns.org> <1544141732.6768.3.camel@stuart.id.au> <1360972528.9056094.6736bd81-44ad-4293-b489-d7be6c515bfc.open-xchange@webmailox.com.au> Message-ID: <576603537.9056161.6736bd81-44ad-4293-b489-d7be6c515bfc.open-xchange@webmailox.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark.phillips at automatedtestsystems.com.au Fri Dec 7 14:23:10 2018 From: mark.phillips at automatedtestsystems.com.au (Mark Phillips) Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2018 14:23:10 +1100 (AEDT) Subject: [Linux-aus] Encryption bill and open source In-Reply-To: <576603537.9056161.6736bd81-44ad-4293-b489-d7be6c515bfc.open-xchange@webmailox.com.au> References: <20181206005124.af4z764bwwkdk7k4@erisian.com.au> <8feea8e8-0e5e-d2c4-b994-262cc0cd21ba@linux.org.au> <634fdc00-852f-61c2-8737-6b2cb4412497@blemings.org> <1544097549.6380.5.camel@stuart.id.au> <443bc489-6626-80eb-f993-fe55a85f8706@gear.dyndns.org> <1544141732.6768.3.camel@stuart.id.au> <1360972528.9056094.6736bd81-44ad-4293-b489-d7be6c515bfc.open-xchange@webmailox.com.au> <576603537.9056161.6736bd81-44ad-4293-b489-d7be6c515bfc.open-xchange@webmailox.com.au> Message-ID: <1054046348.9056232.6736bd81-44ad-4293-b489-d7be6c515bfc.open-xchange@webmailox.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From president at linux.org.au Fri Dec 7 14:26:41 2018 From: president at linux.org.au (Linux Australia President) Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2018 14:26:41 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Encryption bill and open source In-Reply-To: <1054046348.9056232.6736bd81-44ad-4293-b489-d7be6c515bfc.open-xchange@webmailox.com.au> References: <20181206005124.af4z764bwwkdk7k4@erisian.com.au> <8feea8e8-0e5e-d2c4-b994-262cc0cd21ba@linux.org.au> <634fdc00-852f-61c2-8737-6b2cb4412497@blemings.org> <1544097549.6380.5.camel@stuart.id.au> <443bc489-6626-80eb-f993-fe55a85f8706@gear.dyndns.org> <1544141732.6768.3.camel@stuart.id.au> <1360972528.9056094.6736bd81-44ad-4293-b489-d7be6c515bfc.open-xchange@webmailox.com.au> <576603537.9056161.6736bd81-44ad-4293-b489-d7be6c515bfc.open-xchange@webmailox.com.au> <1054046348.9056232.6736bd81-44ad-4293-b489-d7be6c515bfc.open-xchange@webmailox.com.au> Message-ID: <9cb7462a-ea71-089c-e214-84ba0053dba8@linux.org.au> Volunteers warmly welcomed ;-) On 7/12/18 2:23 pm, Mark Phillips via linux-aus wrote: > > And just another thought based on the publicity angle. > > OSIA have paid for press release service. It might be worth it to see > if you can jointly put out a number of press releases around the topic. > > mark > From aj at erisian.com.au Fri Dec 7 18:46:11 2018 From: aj at erisian.com.au (Anthony Towns) Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2018 17:46:11 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Encryption bill and open source In-Reply-To: <443bc489-6626-80eb-f993-fe55a85f8706@gear.dyndns.org> References: <20181206005124.af4z764bwwkdk7k4@erisian.com.au> <8feea8e8-0e5e-d2c4-b994-262cc0cd21ba@linux.org.au> <634fdc00-852f-61c2-8737-6b2cb4412497@blemings.org> <1544097549.6380.5.camel@stuart.id.au> <443bc489-6626-80eb-f993-fe55a85f8706@gear.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20181207074611.y63iwcj256o3zj6c@erisian.com.au> On Fri, Dec 07, 2018 at 08:19:02AM +1000, Paul Gear via linux-aus wrote: > Is there still time to call our MPs?? (Not being a mainstream news watcher/ > reader, I don't know the best source to find this out.) Well, there's always time to call your MP; but given they barely listened to legal and technical concerns so far, I don't see why that would change? I guess I'm leaning towards something along the lines of: "Thankyou for voting for the absurd Assistance and Access bills without amendments. It has been evident from the leadership debacles within both the Liberal and Labor parties over the past decade that Australia's interests are not at the forefront of your minds, but the poor drafting and disregard for public consultation in this bill makes it crystal clear neither party prioritises responsible governance at all any longer. While I hope you will be able to follow through on your commitments to amend the bill, I cannot say I have any confidence that you will do so, as it seems the Lucky Country's good luck in having a broadly competent political class on both sides of politics has run out. I look forward to expressing my opinions further at the forthcoming election. Sincerely, etc" and encouraging people to vote Labor/Liberal equal last on ballots, so neither party even benefits from preference flows. I guess I could imagine forgiving the Nationals and Hinch and co for being swept along, but both Labor and the Libs should be able to stand up to the security agencies in support of good governance processes. They evidently can't do that anymore, so what use are they? Maybe given some time to think it over something more moderate will come to mind. Based on reddit/theyvoteforyou, the minor party votes were: - against: Greens (Di Natale, Faruqi, Hanson-Young, McKim, Rice, Siewert, Steele-John, Waters, Whish-Wilson) Centre-Alliance (Griff, Patrick) Independent (Storer) - missing: Australian Conservatives (Bernardi) Independent (Anning) LDP (Leyonhjelm) Nationals (Scullion, Canavan, Martin, O'Sullivan, Williams) - for: Hinch (Hinch) One Nation (Georgiou, Hanson) Nationals (McKenzie) United Australia Party (Burston) - missing ALP/Lib: ALP (Brown, Dodson, Lines, Marshall, Polley, Watta) Liberal (Abetz, Gichuhi, Paterson, Payne, Sinodinos) I guess most of the missing Nationals were on planes back home by the time of the vote? Or perhaps had just left the chamber to avoid the asylum filibuster or whatever it was? And Leyonhjelm is disappointing as usual. At least it leaves a handful of experienced senators to vote for with the Greens on the left and the ex-Xenophon Centre Alliance on the right(ish?). Upside: I had been thinking of voting for Bill Shorten's Labor, even as 1st preference, last Sunday. At least I don't have to consider that any more! Cheers, aj From ben at adversary.org Sat Dec 8 07:28:15 2018 From: ben at adversary.org (Ben McGinnes) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2018 07:28:15 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Encryption bill and open source In-Reply-To: <8feea8e8-0e5e-d2c4-b994-262cc0cd21ba@linux.org.au> References: <20181206005124.af4z764bwwkdk7k4@erisian.com.au> <8feea8e8-0e5e-d2c4-b994-262cc0cd21ba@linux.org.au> Message-ID: <20181207202815.eza4xerelklrhvo5@adversary.org> On Thu, Dec 06, 2018 at 03:47:22PM +1100, Linux Australia President via linux-aus wrote: > Thanks aj for getting the conversation started. > > The proposed legislation is deeply flawed, ill-conceived, poorly > consulted and no doubt will be improperly executed. The list of > submissions to PJCIS [0] is staggering in its volume, how many big > players responded, and the overarching message that the AAbill is > flawed. What's even more appalling is how the submissions have been > resoundingly ignored over vague, specious national security > claims. And yes, passing of this bill undoubtedly jeopardises the > Australian technology industry. It will, but some of us who've actively opposed crap like this for years have been a little more silent this time around. Most likely a result of burn out in trying to maintain the sisyphean struggle against totalitarian power grabs. I've certainly felt that, coupled with a few other things. So this time around I concentrated as much as possible on technical solutions before doing so may or may not become illegal here (I haven't checked the final language and honestly don't really give a damn). >> Would improving the state of the art in open source help to defray >> its effects? > > Yes, but no-one's going to do it. > > Open * / free * / libre * groups internationally all face the same > set of problems Nadia Eghbal set out in her excellent paper "Roads > and bridges" - essentially everyone uses open source software, but > no one's paying for it to be maintained [1]. This is a major understatement. My current job, for example, is a paid job until the end of this year, but that's when the money runs out. It's a perfectly decent example of exactly this problem; the more so because the free software project I work in is clearly relevant to this issue. It's also used in bootstrapping most, if not all, of the FOSS OSes; yet seen a negligible amount of their funding. As for my obligatory disclaimer regarding work (and impending need to do less in the role in order to find a paying gig elsewhere); I'm leaving my work email .signature in place this time (I normally cut them from posts to lists). Even though I'm not posting from my work/project address. As for whether or not it ought to receive more funding from those companies and organisations which depend on it ... well, my view is biased and the corporate world has clearly decided it doesn't. Aside from the token community grant from, of all companies, Facebook. You can all decide for yourselves if that project is worthwhile in relation to human rights and civil liberties. ;) Anyway, there's more to do before the year is done, so I'll keep my focus where it will do some real good.[1] This has the added bonus of also being civil disobedience in the current political climate. As for whether or not the current legislation makes my work illegal or unlawful; I'm willing to give this legislation[2] about as much regard as those behind this latest power grab have for conducting themselves within the bounds of the law at all times and respecting the human rights of everyone else. That seems like a fair compromise.[3] Regards, Ben 1: No, I won't plant backdoors in the thing and all my commits are publicly viewable here: https://dev.gnupg.org/people/commits/498/ 2: Amongst a number of other legislative instruments used by both Australia and its allies. 3: Do I really need to say how little this regard must be? No? Good. -- | Ben McGinnes | GNU Privacy Guard | ben at gnupg.org | | ---------------------------------------------------------------- | | GNU Privacy Guard Made Easy (GPGME) Python 3 API Maintainer | | GPG key: 0x321E4E2373590E5D http://www.adversary.org/ben-key.asc | | GPG key fpr: DB47 24E6 FA42 86C9 2B4E 55C4 321E 4E23 7359 0E5D | | Web: https://www.gnupg.org/ Tor: http://ic6au7wa3f6naxjq.onion/ | | ---------------------------------------------------------------- | -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 228 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ben at adversary.org Sat Dec 8 07:52:46 2018 From: ben at adversary.org (Ben McGinnes) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2018 07:52:46 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Encryption bill and open source In-Reply-To: <410899543.325191.30192531-b708-4a23-b20c-e6f145fa49b2.open-xchange@webmailox.com.au> References: <20181206005124.af4z764bwwkdk7k4@erisian.com.au> <8feea8e8-0e5e-d2c4-b994-262cc0cd21ba@linux.org.au> <634fdc00-852f-61c2-8737-6b2cb4412497@blemings.org> <410899543.325191.30192531-b708-4a23-b20c-e6f145fa49b2.open-xchange@webmailox.com.au> Message-ID: <20181207205246.gea2qhnivbf6teop@adversary.org> On Thu, Dec 06, 2018 at 05:35:16PM +1100, Mark Phillips via linux-aus wrote: > > As such I am currently writing a research paper with the working > title of ?Government Overreach Through (Technical) Ignorance? which > is carrying out a fairly detailed analysis of how legislation that > affects technology is enabled, and by whom. If you have information > that might help send me details. Yep this is a plug! You called it GOTTI?! That's *gold*! :) Regards, Ben -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 228 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lev at levlafayette.com Mon Dec 10 09:57:28 2018 From: lev at levlafayette.com (Lev Lafayette) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2018 09:57:28 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Encryption bill and open source In-Reply-To: <20181207205246.gea2qhnivbf6teop@adversary.org> References: <20181206005124.af4z764bwwkdk7k4@erisian.com.au> <8feea8e8-0e5e-d2c4-b994-262cc0cd21ba@linux.org.au> <634fdc00-852f-61c2-8737-6b2cb4412497@blemings.org> <410899543.325191.30192531-b708-4a23-b20c-e6f145fa49b2.open-xchange@webmailox.com.au> <20181207205246.gea2qhnivbf6teop@adversary.org> Message-ID: On Sat, December 8, 2018 7:52 am, Ben McGinnes via linux-aus wrote: > On Thu, Dec 06, 2018 at 05:35:16PM +1100, Mark Phillips via linux-aus > wrote: > >> >> As such I am currently writing a research paper with the working >> title of ?Government Overreach Through (Technical) Ignorance? which is >> carrying out a fairly detailed analysis of how legislation that affects >> technology is enabled, and by whom. If you have information that might >> help send me details. Yep this is a plug! > > You called it GOTTI?! That's *gold*! :) He showed the world who's boss :) -- Lev Lafayette, BA (Hons), GradCertTerAdEd (Murdoch), GradCertPM, MBA (Tech Mngmnt) (Chifley) mobile: 0432 255 208 RFC 1855 Netiquette Guidelines http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1855.txt From arjen at lentz.com.au Wed Dec 12 11:34:50 2018 From: arjen at lentz.com.au (Arjen Lentz) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2018 10:34:50 +1000 (AEST) Subject: [Linux-aus] The LCA2019 Open Education miniconference needs you! Message-ID: <1722120483.413406.1544574890268.JavaMail.zimbra@lentz.com.au> Hi all We need more content in our open edu miniconf, and it's getting close. A day on using open tools, open source and creative commons thinking in schools and other education environments. How open source hardware and software, open data and standards, can be a force for good change and really enable students' engagement with learning - reducing or removing gender, financial and other barriers. Submit your talk https://linux.conf.au/proposals/submit/ Please get your own talk in, spread the word, and also use any other means you have to prod individuals? Thanks! Regards, Arjen. From president at linux.org.au Thu Dec 13 12:03:24 2018 From: president at linux.org.au (Linux Australia President) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 12:03:24 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Courtesy note - we're updating linux.org.au today Message-ID: Hi everyone, This is a courtesy note to advise we're doing the migration of linux.org.au over the next two days. Bear with us as we expect some glitches, and possibly emails being generated from the CiviCRM system / WordPress system we are implementing. Further communications will be sent out tomorrow evening once migration is complete with clear instructions on how to activate your membership in the new system. Please don't hesitate to contact me directly (president at linux.org.au) if you have questions or concerns you're not comfortable sharing publicly. Kind regards, Kathy -- Kathy Reid President Linux Australia 0418 130 636 president at linux.org.au http://linux.org.au Linux Australia Inc GPO Box 4788 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia ABN 56 987 117 479 From president at linux.org.au Fri Dec 14 04:56:22 2018 From: president at linux.org.au (Linux Australia President) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2018 04:56:22 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] READ ME: New Linux Australia Membership system and what you have to do Message-ID: Dear colleagues, Over the last year, the Linux Australia Council has been undertaking actions to renew both our web presence and our membership database. These projects have several drivers. Our existing web presence is dated, and the software stack on which it resides is difficult to maintain without significant effort. Our previous platform, MemberDB, is over 10 years old, and while it served us well, it is very definitely end of life. To this end, we undertook a competitive quote process and engaged the services of Agileware, a Canberra-based WordPress, Drupal and CiviCRM vendor. We've worked closely with Agileware over the last few months and the new website and membership database is now live. The new system is CiviCRM with WordPress. The new system requires some actions on your part as a Linux Australia member, and this email clearly communicates what to expect, what we need you to do, and where you can go for help and assistance. https://linux.org.au Membership renewal and how to renew your membership Due to our requirements as an incorporated association in the state of NSW, governed by the NSW Office of Fair Trading, we are implementing membership renewal. All existing records in MemberDB have been imported into the new Membership system based on CiviCRM, but they will need to be 'activated' by you to renew your membership. 1. Go to https://linux.org.au and click on the 'Login' button, and using your email address from MemberDB, reset your password. A confirmation of reset will be sent to your email address. 2. Log in to the website using your new password. 3. Click on the 'Member area' button 4. Select 'Renew Membership' 5. Update your Member details 6. Linux Australia Council members will review and, if all is in order, approve your membership. Memberships that are not renewed after several months will be expunged. Where to go for help If you need help in renewing your membership, please email me via return email. Website feedback? Other inquiries about the new system? Please use the 'Contact Us' form on the new website, which goes to the Council. That way we'll make sure we're able to effectively prioritise and action any feedback. You MUST renew your Membership before being able to vote or nominate in Council elections. Kind regards, Kathy -- Kathy Reid President Linux Australia 0418 130 636 president at linux.org.au http://linux.org.au Linux Australia Inc GPO Box 4788 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia ABN 56 987 117 479 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From president at linux.org.au Fri Dec 14 16:15:30 2018 From: president at linux.org.au (Linux Australia President) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2018 16:15:30 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Congratulations to Dr Andrew Tridgell, awarded DSc honoris causa from ANU earlier this week Message-ID: <14801d37-5b82-0c98-d6c8-93ad2a9be299@linux.org.au> https://cecs.anu.edu.au/news/dr-andrew-tridgell "Chancellor, it is with pleasure that I present to you Dr Andrew Tridgell that you may confer on him the degree of Doctor of Science /honoris causa/ for his exceptional contributions to computer science through open and free software." - Nobel Laureate Prof. Brian Schmidt conferring the award Tridge, if I'm allowed to address someone so esteemed so informally, is an absolute pillar of our community and embodies all the values we hold dear - openness, transparency, the sense of curiosity, endeavour and learning, and as an organisation we couldn't be prouder. Congratulations. My particular thanks to Bob Edwards for passing this on - much appreciated Bob. With kind regards, Kathy -- Kathy Reid President Linux Australia 0418 130 636 president at linux.org.au http://linux.org.au Linux Australia Inc GPO Box 4788 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia ABN 56 987 117 479 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trish at thefrasers.org Fri Dec 14 20:46:56 2018 From: trish at thefrasers.org (Trish Fraser) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2018 20:46:56 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] [Announce] READ ME: New Linux Australia Membership system and what you have to do In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20181214204656.4524bff2@cassiopeia> Hi, ... > The new system requires some actions on your part as a Linux Australia > member, and this email clearly communicates what to expect, what we > need you to do, and where you can go for help and assistance. Just done this: have to say, I find the new site eye-crossingly hard to read. I'll try it in other browsers, but argh! the font! Cheers, -- Trish Fraser, VVMZ4 91L2V -35.67910, 142.66607 Fri Dec 14 20:45:26 AEDT 2018 GNU/Linux 1997-2017 #283226 counter.li.org cassiopeia up up 2 weeks, 5 days, 6 hours, 4 minutes Mageia release 6 (Official) for x86_64 kernel 4.18.12-desktop-1.mga6 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jgoodwin at studio442.com.au Fri Dec 14 22:54:58 2018 From: jgoodwin at studio442.com.au (Julien Goodwin) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2018 22:54:58 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] READ ME: New Linux Australia Membership system and what you have to do In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 14/12/18 4:56 am, Linux Australia President via linux-aus wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > Over the last year, the Linux Australia Council has been undertaking > actions to renew both our web presence and our membership database. > These projects have several drivers. Our existing web presence is dated, > and the software stack on which it resides is difficult to maintain > without significant effort. Our previous platform, MemberDB, is over 10 > years old, and while it served us well, it is very definitely end of life. > > To this end, we undertook a competitive quote process and engaged the > services of Agileware, a Canberra-based WordPress, Drupal and CiviCRM > vendor. We've worked closely with Agileware over the last few months and > the new website and membership database is now live. The new system is > CiviCRM with WordPress. > > The new system requires some actions on your part as a Linux Australia > member, and this email clearly communicates what to expect, what we need > you to do, and where you can go for help and assistance. > > https://linux.org.au > > > Membership renewal and how to renew your membership > > Due to our requirements as an incorporated association in the state of > NSW, governed by the NSW Office of Fair Trading, we are implementing > membership renewal. All existing records in MemberDB have been imported > into the new Membership system based on CiviCRM, but they will need to > be 'activated' by you to renew your membership. > > 1. Go to https://linux.org.au and click on the 'Login' button, and using > your email address from MemberDB, reset your password. A confirmation of > reset will be sent to your email address. > > 2. Log in to the website using your new password. > > 3. Click on the 'Member area' button > > 4. Select 'Renew Membership' > > 5. Update your Member details Instead of the form I simply get a message stating "Your membership is not currently due for renewal". From rowland.mosbergen at gmail.com Fri Dec 14 23:00:16 2018 From: rowland.mosbergen at gmail.com (Rowland Mosbergen) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2018 23:00:16 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] READ ME: New Linux Australia Membership system and what you have to do In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I get the same message "Your membership is not currently due for renewal". On Fri, Dec 14, 2018 at 10:55 PM Julien Goodwin via linux-aus < linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > > > On 14/12/18 4:56 am, Linux Australia President via linux-aus wrote: > > Dear colleagues, > > > > Over the last year, the Linux Australia Council has been undertaking > > actions to renew both our web presence and our membership database. > > These projects have several drivers. Our existing web presence is dated, > > and the software stack on which it resides is difficult to maintain > > without significant effort. Our previous platform, MemberDB, is over 10 > > years old, and while it served us well, it is very definitely end of > life. > > > > To this end, we undertook a competitive quote process and engaged the > > services of Agileware, a Canberra-based WordPress, Drupal and CiviCRM > > vendor. We've worked closely with Agileware over the last few months and > > the new website and membership database is now live. The new system is > > CiviCRM with WordPress. > > > > The new system requires some actions on your part as a Linux Australia > > member, and this email clearly communicates what to expect, what we need > > you to do, and where you can go for help and assistance. > > > > https://linux.org.au > > > > > > Membership renewal and how to renew your membership > > > > Due to our requirements as an incorporated association in the state of > > NSW, governed by the NSW Office of Fair Trading, we are implementing > > membership renewal. All existing records in MemberDB have been imported > > into the new Membership system based on CiviCRM, but they will need to > > be 'activated' by you to renew your membership. > > > > 1. Go to https://linux.org.au and click on the 'Login' button, and using > > your email address from MemberDB, reset your password. A confirmation of > > reset will be sent to your email address. > > > > 2. Log in to the website using your new password. > > > > 3. Click on the 'Member area' button > > > > 4. Select 'Renew Membership' > > > > 5. Update your Member details > > Instead of the form I simply get a message stating "Your membership is > not currently due for renewal". > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robyn at robynspcs.com Sat Dec 15 13:23:42 2018 From: robyn at robynspcs.com (Robyn Willison) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2018 12:53:42 +1030 Subject: [Linux-aus] READ ME: New Linux Australia Membership system and what you have to do In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8991823c-3515-b3e6-1697-cdeb2b916457@robynspcs.com> yeah i get the same On 14/12/18 10:30 pm, Rowland Mosbergen via linux-aus wrote: > I get the same message "Your membership is not currently due for renewal". > > On Fri, Dec 14, 2018 at 10:55 PM Julien Goodwin via linux-aus > > > wrote: > > > > On 14/12/18 4:56 am, Linux Australia President via linux-aus wrote: > > Dear colleagues, > > > > Over the last year, the Linux Australia Council has been undertaking > > actions to renew both our web presence and our membership database. > > These projects have several drivers. Our existing web presence > is dated, > > and the software stack on which it resides is difficult to maintain > > without significant effort. Our previous platform, MemberDB, is > over 10 > > years old, and while it served us well, it is very definitely > end of life. > > > > To this end, we undertook a competitive quote process and > engaged the > > services of Agileware, a Canberra-based WordPress, Drupal and > CiviCRM > > vendor. We've worked closely with Agileware over the last few > months and > > the new website and membership database is now live. The new > system is > > CiviCRM with WordPress. > > > > The new system requires some actions on your part as a Linux > Australia > > member, and this email clearly communicates what to expect, what > we need > > you to do, and where you can go for help and assistance. > > > > https://linux.org.au > > > > > >? ? ?Membership renewal and how to renew your membership > > > > Due to our requirements as an incorporated association in the > state of > > NSW, governed by the NSW Office of Fair Trading, we are implementing > > membership renewal. All existing records in MemberDB have been > imported > > into the new Membership system based on CiviCRM, but they will > need to > > be 'activated' by you to renew your membership. > > > > 1. Go to https://linux.org.au and click on the 'Login' button, > and using > > your email address from MemberDB, reset your password. A > confirmation of > > reset will be sent to your email address. > > > > 2. Log in to the website using your new password. > > > > 3. Click on the 'Member area' button > > > > 4. Select 'Renew Membership' > > > > 5. Update your Member details > > Instead of the form I simply get a message stating "Your membership is > not currently due for renewal". > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au > > > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robyn at robynspcs.com Sat Dec 15 13:24:48 2018 From: robyn at robynspcs.com (Robyn Willison) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2018 12:54:48 +1030 Subject: [Linux-aus] Congratulations to Dr Andrew Tridgell, awarded DSc honoris causa from ANU earlier this week In-Reply-To: <14801d37-5b82-0c98-d6c8-93ad2a9be299@linux.org.au> References: <14801d37-5b82-0c98-d6c8-93ad2a9be299@linux.org.au> Message-ID: <254ea5d9-b54f-1d52-d1c9-218c47f093bd@robynspcs.com> Congrats Tridge On 14/12/18 3:45 pm, Linux Australia President via linux-aus wrote: > > https://cecs.anu.edu.au/news/dr-andrew-tridgell > > > "Chancellor, it is with pleasure that I present to you Dr Andrew > Tridgell that you may confer on him the degree of Doctor of > Science /honoris causa/ for his exceptional contributions to > computer science through open and free software." > > > - Nobel Laureate Prof. Brian Schmidt conferring the award > > > Tridge, if I'm allowed to address someone so esteemed so informally, > is an absolute pillar of our community and embodies all the values we > hold dear - openness, transparency, the sense of curiosity, endeavour > and learning, and as an organisation we couldn't be prouder. > Congratulations. > > > My particular thanks to Bob Edwards for passing this on - much > appreciated Bob. > > > With kind regards, > > Kathy > > > -- > Kathy Reid > President > Linux Australia > > 0418 130 636 > > president at linux.org.au > http://linux.org.au > > Linux Australia Inc > GPO Box 4788 > Sydney NSW 2001 > Australia > > ABN 56 987 117 479 > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From president at linux.org.au Mon Dec 17 01:38:30 2018 From: president at linux.org.au (Linux Australia President) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 01:38:30 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Declaration of Election - Linux Australia Inc. Message-ID: <0ca4f011-0f31-9500-30a8-827beb44dc7c@linux.org.au> Dear Linux Australia Community, Pursuant to clause (15) of the Linux Australia constitution [1] we hereby declare an election open and call for nominations to the Linux Australia Council for the term January 2019 to January 2020. All office bearer and ordinary committee member positions are open for election. * Nominations will open from 17 December 2018 until 30 December 2018 * Voting will open 31st December until 20 January 2019 * Results will be announced at the AGM in Christchurch, New Zealand at linux.conf.au on or after 21 January 2019 The election can be viewed here: https://linux.org.au/elections/ (You must be logged in to see the elections) What do I need to do? First of all, make sure your details are correct at https://linux.org.au/ If you wish to nominate, identify the positions you wish to nominate for and get an understanding of what they involve. Think about what you might bring to the role and prepare a short pitch. Then, accept the nomination you've been given by clicking the 'Accept nomination' link. If you wish to nominate another person for a position, you may wish to contact them first and have a chat to make sure they're happy being nominated. Then follow the 'Nominate' link to nominate them. Once voting is open, you will be able to vote for candidates. Results will be announced at the AGM at linux.conf.au in Christchurch in January 2019. Why should I nominate? Being a member of Linux Australia Council is a fun way to meet new people, work on exciting projects and expand your skill base. It gives you excellent transferable skills to help build your career, and allows you to grow your professional network. It looks great on a CV, and is also a chance to give back to the vibrant Linux and open source ecosystem in Australia and globally. If you're passionate about Linux and open source, it's a great opportunity to help drive and steer Australia's contribution in this field. If you are contemplating nominating for a role on Council, in addition to referring to the Position Descriptions provided [3], you are strongly encouraged to approach current and former council members for their perspective.? You will find them, to a person, willing to discuss the roles and responsibilities in a more informal manner. The roles do require a time commitment so please consider this with your nomination. Each role has been documented for you as a position description [1]https://linux.org.au/about-us/constitution/ [2]http://www.linux.org.au/membership [3]https://github.com/linuxaustralia/position-descriptions As always, your feedback and questions are warmly welcomed. If you'd like to have a chat with anyone on Council around what it involves, please do make contact. With kind regards, Sae Ra -- Sae Ra Germaine Secretary Linux Australia secretary at linux.org.au http://linux.org.au Linux Australia Inc GPO Box 4788 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia ABN 56 987 117 479 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From president at linux.org.au Mon Dec 17 01:39:57 2018 From: president at linux.org.au (Linux Australia President) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 01:39:57 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Information on Elections in the new Linux Australia voting system Message-ID: <2b176b23-545e-e310-90a2-571b8e8a219d@linux.org.au> Dear Colleagues, In my previous email I outlined the new Linux Australia Membership System, based on CiviCRM, and provided details on how to update your details in the new system. I would now like to outline how Elections for the Linux Australia Council will run for Council 2019 using the Linux Australia Membership System. How are elections being run? We have engaged Agileware to build a custom module for CiviCRM based on the existing Membership DB preferential run-off style elections. You can see the source code for this module at https://github.com/agileware/au.com.agileware.elections To nominate a Linux Australia Member for Council 1. Log? in the Member area of the Linux Australia website https://linux.org.au/member-area 2. Click on Elections https://linux.org.au/elections/ 3. On the Election Linux Australia Council Election 2019, click the Nominate button 4. Search for the Linux Australia member you wish to Nominate 5. Select the member A member must be nominated twice to become a candidate. Members may nominate themselves. If you are viewing nominees and click the 'Second' button, be aware that the person won't be automatically selected and you will have to type their name in again. To vote in the election Voting will open on 31st December 2018. 1. Log? in the Member area of the Linux Australia website https://linux.org.au/member-area 2. Click on Elections https://linux.org.au/elections/ 3. On the ElectionLinux Australia Council Election 2019, click the Vote button 4. Vote for choice of candidate 5. Save your selection You can vote again - if you vote again it will overwrite your initial choice.? Where do I get help? Via return email, or via the 'Contact Us' form on the website. Kind regards, Kathy -- Kathy Reid President Linux Australia 0418 130 636 president at linux.org.au http://linux.org.au Linux Australia Inc GPO Box 4788 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia ABN 56 987 117 479 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kathy at kathyreid.id.au Mon Dec 17 10:47:18 2018 From: kathy at kathyreid.id.au (Kathy Reid) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 10:47:18 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Kathy Reid - not nominating for Council in 2019 Message-ID: Hi everyone, With election nominations now open, it's a good time to let everyone know I won't be nominating for Council 2019. While I'm delighted to have gained a place at Australian National University's new 3A Institute Masters program to help develop a new applied science in artificial intelligence and cyber-physical systems, I would prefer not to take on significant additional responsibilities in addition to this focus. I've served with Linux Australia in some capacity since 2011, including two stints on a linux.conf.au core team (Ballarat 2012, Geelong 2016), 2 years as Secretary, 1 year as Vice President and 2 years as President - and I hope, have delivered some value in that time. Now is the right junction to encourage others in our community to take up the mantle, use the opportunity to further develop leadership capabilities and to serve the wonderful free and open source ecosystem in Australia. So if you're sitting there thinking "what if Linux Australia did $SOMETHING" - now is your opportunity to step up and make it happen. Kind regards, Kathy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: pEpkey.asc Type: application/pgp-keys Size: 2456 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hugh at blemings.org Mon Dec 17 12:35:38 2018 From: hugh at blemings.org (Hugh Blemings) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 12:35:38 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Kathy Reid - not nominating for Council in 2019 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 17/12/18 10:47, Kathy Reid via linux-aus wrote: > Hi everyone, > > With election nominations now open, it's a good time to let everyone > know I won't be nominating for Council 2019. > > [...] While it wasn't the point of your email Kathy, I will none the less place on record my sincere thanks for all you have contributed to Linux Australia over the years. We are as a technical commons that much richer for all that you've done, and it has been a privilege and joy to work with you in various capacities over the years! :) Thank you! Cheers, Hugh From jwoithe at just42.net Mon Dec 17 13:22:57 2018 From: jwoithe at just42.net (Jonathan Woithe) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 12:52:57 +1030 Subject: [Linux-aus] Kathy Reid - not nominating for Council in 2019 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20181217022257.GG30198@marvin.atrad.com.au> Hi all On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 12:35:38PM +1100, Hugh Blemings via linux-aus wrote: > On 17/12/18 10:47, Kathy Reid via linux-aus wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > > > With election nominations now open, it's a good time to let everyone > > know I won't be nominating for Council 2019. > > > > [...] > > While it wasn't the point of your email Kathy, I will none the less place on > record my sincere thanks for all you have contributed to Linux Australia > over the years. I second this. The obvious energy and enthusiasm you have put into Linux Australia, particularly over the last two years, has greatly benefitted the community as a whole in countless ways. Thank you. Regards jonathan From kathy at kathyreid.id.au Mon Dec 17 18:00:50 2018 From: kathy at kathyreid.id.au (Kathy Reid) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 18:00:50 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Kathy Reid - not nominating for Council in 2019 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <30f85dd6-672b-4e65-a497-819bab2e34e1@kathyreid.id.au> On 17/12/18 12:35 pm, Hugh Blemings wrote: > > We are as a technical commons that much richer for all that you've > done, and it has been a privilege and joy to work with you in various > capacities over the years! :) > > Thank you! Thank *you*, and all those who provided advice, and guidance, and who were, and are, role models for me. It takes a village to raise a child, or a President, or ... you get my drift. A strong community grows strong leaders. > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: pEpkey.asc Type: application/pgp-keys Size: 2456 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mike.carden at gmail.com Mon Dec 17 18:16:57 2018 From: mike.carden at gmail.com (Mike Carden) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 18:16:57 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Kathy Reid - not nominating for Council in 2019 In-Reply-To: <30f85dd6-672b-4e65-a497-819bab2e34e1@kathyreid.id.au> References: <30f85dd6-672b-4e65-a497-819bab2e34e1@kathyreid.id.au> Message-ID: Kathy, Having been on the sharp end of both the LA Council and an LCA core team, I know some of what you have been through to contribute as you have. As a privileged middle aged white Anglo Saxon male, I didn't experience any of the additional challenges that you certainly faced doing so much as a woman in a society that often devalues contributions from women. I thank you for your passion, your commitment, your work and for all you have done to benefit this great community. Kathy, you have done the thing we should all strive to do; "Leave it better than you found it". And LA is better, due to you. So... Thanks, and here's hoping you can shake up AI at the ANU. -- MC On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 6:01 PM Kathy Reid via linux-aus < linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > > On 17/12/18 12:35 pm, Hugh Blemings wrote: > > > > We are as a technical commons that much richer for all that you've > > done, and it has been a privilege and joy to work with you in various > > capacities over the years! :) > > > > Thank you! > Thank *you*, and all those who provided advice, and guidance, and who > were, and are, role models for me. It takes a village to raise a child, > or a President, or ... you get my drift. A strong community grows strong > leaders. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steven.ellis at gmail.com Mon Dec 17 20:49:36 2018 From: steven.ellis at gmail.com (Steven Ellis) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 22:49:36 +1300 Subject: [Linux-aus] Kathy Reid - not nominating for Council in 2019 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kathy - Like many others I want to thank you for all the work you've put in during your time on the Council. In addition I'm super excited about your new project and wish you all the very best success. Steven On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 12:47 PM Kathy Reid via linux-aus < linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > Hi everyone, > > With election nominations now open, it's a good time to let everyone > know I won't be nominating for Council 2019. > > While I'm delighted to have gained a place at Australian National > University's new 3A Institute Masters program to help develop a new > applied science in artificial intelligence and cyber-physical systems, I > would prefer not to take on significant additional responsibilities in > addition to this focus. > > I've served with Linux Australia in some capacity since 2011, including > two stints on a linux.conf.au core team (Ballarat 2012, Geelong 2016), 2 > years as Secretary, 1 year as Vice President and 2 years as President - > and I hope, have delivered some value in that time. > > Now is the right junction to encourage others in our community to take > up the mantle, use the opportunity to further develop leadership > capabilities and to serve the wonderful free and open source ecosystem > in Australia. So if you're sitting there thinking "what if Linux > Australia did $SOMETHING" - now is your opportunity to step up and make > it happen. > > Kind regards, > > Kathy > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh at blemings.org Tue Dec 18 15:41:50 2018 From: hugh at blemings.org (Hugh Blemings) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 15:41:50 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Hugh Blemings - not seeking nomination for Council in 2019 Message-ID: Hiya, Prompted in part by Kathy's recent email, it seemed appropriate to note my own intentions not to seek nomination for a role on the Linux Australia Council for 2019. This decision a reflection of nothing more than expected changes to my personal and professional circumstances during the course of 2019. In both spheres said changes very much positive - for example an exciting and busy year ahead for OpenPOWER and likely moving house as well. Given I found my time stretched in the 2nd half of 2018 it seems prudent to leave the chair vacant for someone better able to commit time to Council. I will note that I believe a number of roles will be vacant this election so if you've been contemplating putting your hand up, now would be an excellent time to do so! My thanks to my colleagues on Council and the broader community for being such wonderful folk to work with, it's been a privilege to serve over the last few years. All the best, Hugh From jwoithe at just42.net Tue Dec 18 16:30:23 2018 From: jwoithe at just42.net (Jonathan Woithe) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 16:00:23 +1030 Subject: [Linux-aus] Hugh Blemings - not seeking nomination for Council in 2019 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20181218053023.GO5046@marvin.atrad.com.au> Hi Hugh On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 03:41:50PM +1100, Hugh Blemings via linux-aus wrote: > Prompted in part by Kathy's recent email, it seemed appropriate to note my > own intentions not to seek nomination for a role on the Linux Australia > Council for 2019. > : > Given I found my time stretched in the 2nd half of 2018 it seems prudent to > leave the chair vacant for someone better able to commit time to Council. Thank you for your dedicated service to Linux Australia over the last few years in various roles. Your insights, guidance and steady hand have proven invaluable and our community has appreciated and greatly benefitted from your work. I for one wish you all the best in what sounds like being an incredibly busy year for you in 2019. Regards jonathan From mickbert at posteo.net Tue Dec 18 19:50:53 2018 From: mickbert at posteo.net (mickbert at posteo.net) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 09:50:53 +0100 Subject: [Linux-aus] READ ME: New Linux Australia Membership system and what you have to do In-Reply-To: <8991823c-3515-b3e6-1697-cdeb2b916457@robynspcs.com> References: <8991823c-3515-b3e6-1697-cdeb2b916457@robynspcs.com> Message-ID: On 15.12.2018 03:23, Robyn Willison via linux-aus wrote: > yeah i get the same > > On 14/12/18 10:30 pm, Rowland Mosbergen via linux-aus wrote: > >> I get the same message "Your membership is not currently due for >> renewal". Me too. -- Mick From jdub at bethesignal.org Tue Dec 18 23:00:08 2018 From: jdub at bethesignal.org (Jeff Waugh) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 23:00:08 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Kathy Reid - not nominating for Council in 2019 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 10:47 AM Kathy Reid via linux-aus < linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > I've served with Linux Australia in some capacity since 2011, including > two stints on a linux.conf.au core team (Ballarat 2012, Geelong 2016), 2 > years as Secretary, 1 year as Vice President and 2 years as President - > and I hope, have delivered some value in that time. Most certainly! You've invested a lot of heart, soul, thought, and time in this community. It's great to hear you'll be moving on to something super cool. Thank you! :-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From secretary at linux.org.au Fri Dec 21 23:38:38 2018 From: secretary at linux.org.au (Linux Australia Secretary) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 23:38:38 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Agenda for Linux Australia Annual General Meeting 21st January 2019 1730hrs (NZDT) Message-ID: Dear all, Pursuant to Clause (24) of the?Linux?Australia?Constitution [1], I hereby give notice that the Annual General Meeting of the organisation will be held?on 21st January 2019 at?linux.conf.au?University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand. The meeting will: confirm the minutes of the last preceding Annual General Meeting (to be forthcoming when the?Agenda?is advised) and of any Special General Meeting held since that meeting (nil SGM held), receive from the Council reports on the activities of the association during the last preceding financial year elect office-bearers of the association and ordinary committee members, or to announce the results of a ballot held prior to the Annual General Meeting under clause 15(5) - see [2] receive and consider any financial statement or report required to be submitted to members under the Act Please find below the draft agenda for the AGM. I would like to specifically point out the proposed changes to the Constitution. The pull request to this change is linked in the agenda below. Voting for these changes will be via the new website?s voting module and a link to this will be announced shortly.? Please advise me at secretary[at]linux.org.au?asap if you wish to be marked as an apology or if there are agenda items you wish to have tabled.? Don?t forget that nominations for the 2019 Council is currently open!? Kind Regards, Sae Ra -- Sae Ra Germaine Secretary Linux Australia secretary at linux.org.au http://linux.org.au Linux Australia Inc GPO Box 4788 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia ABN 56 987 117 479 -- Agenda of Linux Australia - Annual General Meeting 2019 University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand Monday 21st ?January 2019, 1730hrs (NZDT) in ?Lecture Theatre ,C1. Zoom Facilities will also be available announcement coming. 1. President?s welcome MS KATHY REID, President To note: attendees should fill in attendance slip for an accurate record in the minutes 2. Approval of the minutes from the previous - Annual General Meeting 2018 MOTION by MS KATHY REID that the minutes of the Annual General Meeting 2018 of Linux Australia be accepted as complete and accurate. The minutes are available at: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Js5EzY4KCd_jHohwYw6gBmI6h8YWcYolmVEPaYzwDAs/edit?usp=sharing To be seconded and voted upon 3. To receive the REPORTS of activities of the preceding year from OFFICE BEARERS MS KATHY REID - President MR RUSSELL STUART - Treasurer Includes presentation of the Auditor?s Report MS SAE RA GERMAINE - Secretary Please refer to the Annual Report MOTION by {TBA} that the Auditor?s Report is a true statement of financial accounts MOTION by {TBA} that the President?s report is correct MOTION by {TBA} that the Secretary?s report is correct MOTION by {TBA} that the Treasurer?s report is correct MOTION by {TBA} that the actions of Council during 2018 are endorsed by the membership To be seconded and voted upon 4. To CONSIDER items tabled in the call for agenda items Amendments to the Constitution: The Council recommends changes to the Constitution in the following areas https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/commit/9c215f83037e6e2193f9bcf83fb70747e56a5a71 Voting for this Constitutional change will be available via the website shortly 5. DECLARATION of Election and WELCOME of incoming Council by the Returning Officer 6. NOMINATION and ELECTION of Members to Vacant Council Positions 7. To HEAR and RESPOND to questions from the floor -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From treasurer at linux.org.au Sun Dec 23 12:15:17 2018 From: treasurer at linux.org.au (Russell Stuart) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2018 11:15:17 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] [LACTTE] Changes to the Constitution to be voted on at the AGM Message-ID: <1545527717.26655.19.camel@linux.org.au> LA members, Early this year a conference organiser suggested Linux Australia become a registered Charity as that would have made it easier for some of the organisations he approached to sponsor his conference.??Later on Stripe told me the same thing: it would be much easier to grant LA the not for profit discount (automatic in fact) if LA was a registered charity. The council sort advice on this from our Auditor and Account.??Both advised becoming a charity would have no material effect on how LA is run. Consequently the executive has put in application to https://www.acnc.gov.au/ to make LA a charity.??The ACNC then told us our application can not proceed until include some clauses they require in our constitution. You can find the discussion on the proposed pull request here. Put in your own 2c worth if you wish: ????https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/pull/38 No changes can be accepted after Dec 30th, as our constitution requires 21 days notice of any proposed change.??My apologies for the short discussion period. The current text adds the following section to the constitution, but beware the pull request is the authoritative version of the changes: ?43. Objects of the association ? ?(1) The objects for which the association is established are: ? ???(a) to facilitate the communication of information relating to ???????inventions, results, techniques, and governance of open source; ? ???(b) to support open source projects and the creators of open? ???????source; ? ???(c) to support and promote the adoption of open source; ? ???(d) to support and promote awareness and understanding of? ???????open source; ? ???(e) to conduct open source advocacy with the government, business ???????and civil society; ? ???(f) to create a network for related local and online open source ???????communities. ? ?(2) The association must pursue charitable purposes only and must ?????apply its income in promoting those purposes. ? ?(3) The association must manage payments and gifts to the association ?????and ensure that they are used to further the stated objects of ?????the association. ? ?(4) In the event of the Organisation being wound up, its assets must ?????go to a charitable entity whose objectives aren?t inconsistent ?????with the stated objects of the Organisation. -- Regards, Russell Stuart Treasurer, Linux Australia +61 438 805 133 http://www.humbug.org.au/RussellStuart From stewart at flamingspork.com Sun Dec 23 13:58:32 2018 From: stewart at flamingspork.com (Stewart Smith) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2018 13:58:32 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] [LACTTE] Changes to the Constitution to be voted on at the AGM In-Reply-To: <1545527717.26655.19.camel@linux.org.au> References: <1545527717.26655.19.camel@linux.org.au> Message-ID: <4D92C89A-728A-4324-981D-1261F608A61C@flamingspork.com> > On 23 Dec 2018, at 12:15, Russell Stuart via linux-aus wrote: > > LA members, > > Early this year a conference organiser suggested Linux Australia > become a registered Charity as that would have made it easier for some > of the organisations he approached to sponsor his conference. Later on > Stripe told me the same thing: it would be much easier to grant LA the > not for profit discount (automatic in fact) if LA was a registered > charity. > > The council sort advice on this from our Auditor and Account. Both > advised becoming a charity would have no material effect on how LA is > run. Fantastic! I?m trying to remember why we didn?t pursue this years ago, and I just can?t. Good idea though. This would mean that donations would be tax deductible? From andrew at donnellan.id.au Sun Dec 23 14:06:23 2018 From: andrew at donnellan.id.au (Andrew Donnellan) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2018 14:06:23 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] [LACTTE] Changes to the Constitution to be voted on at the AGM In-Reply-To: <4D92C89A-728A-4324-981D-1261F608A61C@flamingspork.com> References: <1545527717.26655.19.camel@linux.org.au> <4D92C89A-728A-4324-981D-1261F608A61C@flamingspork.com> Message-ID: On Sun., 23 Dec. 2018, 13:59 Stewart Smith via linux-aus < linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au wrote: > > > > On 23 Dec 2018, at 12:15, Russell Stuart via linux-aus < > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > > > > LA members, > > > > Early this year a conference organiser suggested Linux Australia > > become a registered Charity as that would have made it easier for some > > of the organisations he approached to sponsor his conference. Later on > > Stripe told me the same thing: it would be much easier to grant LA the > > not for profit discount (automatic in fact) if LA was a registered > > charity. > > > > The council sort advice on this from our Auditor and Account. Both > > advised becoming a charity would have no material effect on how LA is > > run. > > Fantastic! I?m trying to remember why we didn?t pursue this years ago, and > I just can?t. Good idea though. This would mean that donations would be tax > deductible? > The ACNC did not exist until legislation was passed in 2013 to establish a system of charity registration. There are some tax benefits to being a charity, but being a charity is not the same as being a Deductible Gift Recipient (a status that existed long before the ACNC's charity registration regime). DGR status is considerably more restricted and most charities do not qualify. Andrew (who has done the ACNC chairty registration rigmarole before...) > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From russell-linuxaus at stuart.id.au Sun Dec 23 14:12:18 2018 From: russell-linuxaus at stuart.id.au (Russell Stuart) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2018 13:12:18 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Changes to the Constitution to be voted on at the AGM In-Reply-To: <4D92C89A-728A-4324-981D-1261F608A61C@flamingspork.com> References: <1545527717.26655.19.camel@linux.org.au> <4D92C89A-728A-4324-981D-1261F608A61C@flamingspork.com> Message-ID: <1545534738.26655.21.camel@stuart.id.au> On Sun, 2018-12-23 at 13:58 +1100, Stewart Smith wrote: > Fantastic! I?m trying to remember why we didn?t pursue this years > ago, and I just can?t. Good idea though. This would mean that > donations would be tax deductible? No, or at least that isn't what we asked for in our appication. The reason we didn't apply for it is the ATO made it clear is your constitution had to say funds must to go to a similar organisation if it was wound up, and ours didn't. (As a aside, that is a decidedly odd omission from the NSW model rules we adopted). The ACNC didn't list the clauses as a requirement so I thought I could put in the submission in without them. In fact you have to tick boxes on a web form, and it won't let proceed if you don't have the right boxes ticked. It let me proceed. But then the person assessing our application said "I won't consider your application unless you have that clause and a statement of objects in your constitution." Since we have to have the clauses I guess I could now change the application to say we claim tax deductibility. But I probably won't. I expect we can change it afterwards, and I'd like to get to step 1. From djitnah at greenwareit.com.au Sun Dec 23 14:23:25 2018 From: djitnah at greenwareit.com.au (Daniel Jitnah) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2018 14:23:25 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Changes to the Constitution to be voted on at the AGM In-Reply-To: <1545534738.26655.21.camel@stuart.id.au> References: <1545527717.26655.19.camel@linux.org.au> <4D92C89A-728A-4324-981D-1261F608A61C@flamingspork.com> <1545534738.26655.21.camel@stuart.id.au> Message-ID: <1545535405.3735.4.camel@greenwareit.com.au> Hi, On Sun, 2018-12-23 at 13:12 +1000, Russell Stuart via linux-aus wrote: > On Sun, 2018-12-23 at 13:58 +1100, Stewart Smith wrote: > > Fantastic! I?m trying to remember why we didn?t pursue this years > > ago, and I just can?t. Good idea though. This would mean that > > donations would be tax deductible? > > No, or at least that isn't what we asked for in our appication. Just wondering, if tax deductability is not available, how would this make it more attractive to a potential sponsor/donor? Cheers Daniel. From russell-linuxaus at stuart.id.au Sun Dec 23 20:53:17 2018 From: russell-linuxaus at stuart.id.au (Russell Stuart) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2018 19:53:17 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Changes to the Constitution to be voted on at the AGM In-Reply-To: <1545535405.3735.4.camel@greenwareit.com.au> References: <1545527717.26655.19.camel@linux.org.au> <4D92C89A-728A-4324-981D-1261F608A61C@flamingspork.com> <1545534738.26655.21.camel@stuart.id.au> <1545535405.3735.4.camel@greenwareit.com.au> Message-ID: <1545558797.26655.23.camel@stuart.id.au> On Sun, 2018-12-23 at 14:23 +1100, Daniel Jitnah via linux-aus wrote: > Just wondering, if tax deductability is not available, how would this > make it more attractive to a potential sponsor/donor??? No idea. You would have to ask the companies that wanted it - eg Stripe. From andrew at donnellan.id.au Sun Dec 23 22:21:33 2018 From: andrew at donnellan.id.au (Andrew Donnellan) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2018 22:21:33 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Changes to the Constitution to be voted on at the AGM In-Reply-To: <1545558797.26655.23.camel@stuart.id.au> References: <1545527717.26655.19.camel@linux.org.au> <4D92C89A-728A-4324-981D-1261F608A61C@flamingspork.com> <1545534738.26655.21.camel@stuart.id.au> <1545535405.3735.4.camel@greenwareit.com.au> <1545558797.26655.23.camel@stuart.id.au> Message-ID: On Sun., 23 Dec. 2018, 20:53 Russell Stuart via linux-aus < linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au wrote: > On Sun, 2018-12-23 at 14:23 +1100, Daniel Jitnah via linux-aus wrote: > > Just wondering, if tax deductability is not available, how would this > > make it more attractive to a potential sponsor/donor? > > No idea. You would have to ask the companies that wanted it - eg > Stripe. > My impression from running another organisation that used its charity status to get discounts is that it's simply useful as an indicator that an organisation is legitimately considered to be a non profit and it can be trivially verified. There's no central registry of non-profit organisations that are *not* registered as charities, merely consulting the ABN database etc doesn't necessarily tell you whether an organisation is non-profit. ACNC registered charity status is a much better indicator of that. Andrew > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steve at refactor.com.au Mon Dec 24 07:03:32 2018 From: steve at refactor.com.au (Stephen Dalton) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2018 06:03:32 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Changes to the Constitution to be voted on at the AGM In-Reply-To: References: <1545527717.26655.19.camel@linux.org.au> <4D92C89A-728A-4324-981D-1261F608A61C@flamingspork.com> <1545534738.26655.21.camel@stuart.id.au> <1545535405.3735.4.camel@greenwareit.com.au> <1545558797.26655.23.camel@stuart.id.au> Message-ID: Our makerspace, GCTechSpace got registered with https://www.connectingup.org as a non-profit. Connecting up is AU affiliate of techsoup.org which most tech companies recognise as the official arbiter. There was some paperwork, but you only have to do it once and then you get most of the discounts (not sure about stripe). We are an incorporated association in QLD - but from an ABN search the non-profit status is not clear. Just as an aside, the other model I have seen that works quite well is a Non-Profit limited by Guarantee. This is like a pty ltd company but has slightly different director/ownership structure that makes it work for non-profits. In hindsight I should have set Techspace up like this if I was going to do it all again. Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stewart at flamingspork.com Mon Dec 24 13:01:07 2018 From: stewart at flamingspork.com (Stewart Smith) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2018 21:01:07 -0500 Subject: [Linux-aus] Kathy Reid - not nominating for Council in 2019 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <809d70dc-7de5-4415-a4f4-1839ccf4f6b0@www.fastmail.com> On Mon, Dec 17, 2018, at 10:47 AM, Kathy Reid via linux-aus wrote: > Hi everyone, > > With election nominations now open, it's a good time to let everyone > know I won't be nominating for Council 2019. > > While I'm delighted to have gained a place at Australian National > University's new 3A Institute Masters program to help develop a new > applied science in artificial intelligence and cyber-physical systems, I > would prefer not to take on significant additional responsibilities in > addition to this focus. > > I've served with Linux Australia in some capacity since 2011, including > two stints on a linux.conf.au core team (Ballarat 2012, Geelong 2016), 2 > years as Secretary, 1 year as Vice President and 2 years as President - > and I hope, have delivered some value in that time. I would say you've delivered tremendous value! Thank you. From president at linux.org.au Mon Dec 24 20:05:34 2018 From: president at linux.org.au (Linux Australia President) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2018 20:05:34 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] December update, and a very happy holidays to all Message-ID: <492883e1-bd70-ce68-93d2-8d80f94d3631@linux.org.au> Hi everyone, Firstly on behalf of the Council we hope that this message finds you happy, healthy and enjoying the holidays - but perhaps not so much the heat that is visiting upon much of the country - stay safe and cool. This is our last communication for 2018, and there's quite a lot to get through, so without further ado, our December update! Declaration of election, Council positions available and call for Agenda items for AGM It may be dry and boring for most people, but as an Incorporated Association, there are a few bits and pieces that legally we need to do to be compliant - and to govern effectively. Chief among these are the election of a new Council, as Council terms are 12 months, and expire in January. You can read more about nominating from Council on our new website; https://linux.org.au/nominate-for-council/ Several Council members, myself included, are not standing for re-election, for various reasons. At the time of writing, we have zero (0) nominations for President or Vice President, and only two nominations for three OCM positions. Without these positions nominated and filled, Linux Australia Council as a team, and Linux Australia as an organisation, is less likely to be as effective as it has been in recent years. If there's something you would like Linux Australia to be working on, now's your chance to put up your hand and make it happen! Nominations close 30th December, make sure you nominate soon. The election this year is being run through our new website. Specifically, it's running a custom-written Voting module for CiviCRM - a previous email had the link to the open source code if anyone wants to inspect it. We've done our best to bring over accounts from MemberDB and to merge duplicates, but if you can't log in to the new website Member Area to nominate or vote, then let me know, or use the Contact Form on the website. We've still got quite a few inquiries to respond to, so thanks in advance for your patience. Our wonderful Secretary Sae Ra has recently sent out information about our upcoming AGM, including a call for agenda items. Please let her know if there are any items you wish to be added to the agenda. This year's AGM also contains a proposed constitutional change. Our excellent Treasurer Russell has previously outlined the reason for the proposed change, and the method to suggest amendments. The election for this will be set up shortly in the Member Area of the new website shortly. https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/pull/38 New website and membership system Thanks to everyone who's already jumped in and had a look around, and for the feedback we've already received. We'll be tweaking the website to respond to feedback over the next few weeks, and will gradually be adding more content, such as the Council minutes. Again, if you have any issues, let me know, or use the Contact Forum on the website to let us know. If you have images available under a CC license that you would like to be featured on the site, let me know - we picked a few great ones - but we know there's lot of great images out there of Linux Australia events, so let us know. Equally, if we've used a CC image of yours, and you're not comfortable with this, we'll take it down. linux.conf.au There is still time to register! It will be awesome! Get on it! https://linux.conf.au Linux Australia sponsors Open Hardware Miniconf at linux.conf.au The Open Hardware folks - Andy Gelme, Jon Oxer, and many others working behind the scenes, have something Very Special planned this year to celebrate 10 years of Open Hardware Miniconf. In order to both encourage diversity of attendance at OHMC, and to keep the price point around $AUD 100, Linux Australia has sponsored the OHMC up to $AUD 4k. Call for bids for LCA2021 extended to end of December We've extended the Call for bids for LCA2021 to, whelp, Sunday night! So if you're thinking of making a bid, get in super super quick. Again, very best wishes for the holidays, Kind regards, Kathy -- Kathy Reid President Linux Australia 0418 130 636 president at linux.org.au http://linux.org.au Linux Australia Inc GPO Box 4788 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia ABN 56 987 117 479 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From russell at coker.com.au Tue Dec 25 09:52:32 2018 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2018 09:52:32 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] DKIM yet again Message-ID: <2752378.DAHS4l4snH@xev> https://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2017-July/023173.html Here's a link to a previous discussion of DKIM and Linux Australia lists, which contains links to previous discussions dating back to 2013. Below are the log entries about the latest DKIM failure. Could someone please set REMOVE_DKIM_HEADERS=Yes in Mailman to solve this issue? Also it would be ideal if messages sent out by the Linux Australia servers were DKIM signed. Dec 24 20:25:05 smtp postfix/smtpd[11955]: 5B8CBF638: client=mailhost.linux.org.au[192.55.98.181] Dec 24 20:25:05 smtp postfix/cleanup[12096]: 5B8CBF638: message-id=<492883e1- bd70-ce68-93d2-8d80f94d3631 at linux.org.au> Dec 24 20:25:06 smtp opendkim[683]: 5B8CBF638: s=default d=kathyreid.id.au SSL error:04091068:rsa routines:int_rsa_verify:bad signature Dec 24 20:25:06 smtp opendkim[683]: 5B8CBF638: bad signature data Dec 24 20:25:06 smtp postfix/cleanup[12096]: 5B8CBF638: milter-reject: END-OF- MESSAGE from mailhost.linux.org.au[192.55.98.181]: 5.7.0 bad DKIM signature data; from= to= proto=ESMTP helo= -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From s.germaine at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 21:36:01 2018 From: s.germaine at gmail.com (Sae Ra Germaine) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2018 21:36:01 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Accepting nomination for President of Linux Australia Council in 2019 Message-ID: Hi All, First of all thank you to those who have nominated me. I have worked with some amazing Council members and should I be elected as President, I have definitely got some big shoes to fill. I have been a member of council for 5 years now, 4 of them as Secretary and have been privileged to see this organisation go from strength to strength. Now that we have renewed our brand and website, this helps gives us visibility and management efficiencies, allowing us to help facilitate and enable council and our members to focus on advocacy and grow our partnerships with other organisations. We will also be able to see our grants programme reach even further to multiple sectors and support a more diverse range of open source/technology projects. Who am I? I'm the current Secretary of Linux Australia, Vice-Chair of the Board for Internet Australia and a Digital Platforms wrangler in the GLAM (Galleries, Libraries, Archives and Museums) Sector. I have been on the Core organising teams of 2012 and 2016 linux.conf.au and I have volunteered at many more. I have a Bachelor of Computing (Honours) To all those who would like to or are thinking of nominating for Council: Please do so. We would love to have you on board. Council has been a very rewarding time for me since I have joined. There aren't many days left. If you are interested please do ping me, I'm happy to answer any questions you may have. Thanks, Sae Ra -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aj at erisian.com.au Thu Dec 27 19:16:28 2018 From: aj at erisian.com.au (Anthony Towns) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2018 18:16:28 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Declining VP nomination Message-ID: <20181227081628.zslhdaeawpw6ungl@erisian.com.au> Hey *, I don't have the spare attention to do LA VP stuff, so I've declined my nomination: my cup overfloweth with all the open source Bitcoin stuff I get to do for a dayjob, so pouring in anything else is just totally out of the question. Heck, I barely have enough time to stir up the mailing list these days :) Cheers, aj From josh at hesketh.net.au Mon Dec 17 15:03:24 2018 From: josh at hesketh.net.au (Joshua Hesketh) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 15:03:24 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Kathy Reid - not nominating for Council in 2019 In-Reply-To: <20181217022257.GG30198@marvin.atrad.com.au> References: <20181217022257.GG30198@marvin.atrad.com.au> Message-ID: <9e33da27-518a-81cc-bccc-19cb624773b4@hesketh.net.au> Hear, hear! Thank you very much Kathy for all your hard work, dedication, and invaluable contributions over the years. It has been an absolute pleasure to work with you when I have had the chance and I wish you all the best with your new endeavors :-) Cheers, Josh On 17/12/18 1:22 pm, Jonathan Woithe via linux-aus wrote: > Hi all > > On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 12:35:38PM +1100, Hugh Blemings via linux-aus wrote: >> On 17/12/18 10:47, Kathy Reid via linux-aus wrote: >>> Hi everyone, >>> >>> With election nominations now open, it's a good time to let everyone >>> know I won't be nominating for Council 2019. >>> >>> [...] >> While it wasn't the point of your email Kathy, I will none the less place on >> record my sincere thanks for all you have contributed to Linux Australia >> over the years. > I second this. The obvious energy and enthusiasm you have put into Linux > Australia, particularly over the last two years, has greatly benefitted the > community as a whole in countless ways. Thank you. > > Regards > jonathan > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au From s.germaine at gmail.com Sat Dec 29 21:38:31 2018 From: s.germaine at gmail.com (Sae Ra Germaine) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2018 21:38:31 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] [Announce] Declaration of Election - Linux Australia Inc. In-Reply-To: <0ca4f011-0f31-9500-30a8-827beb44dc7c@linux.org.au> References: <0ca4f011-0f31-9500-30a8-827beb44dc7c@linux.org.au> Message-ID: Dear All, Just a quick reminder that nominations close TOMORROW! If you have nominated you will need to accept the nomination if you have been seconded. If you would like to nominate but are not sure please do ping one of us on Council I'm sure we can help you out. Thanks, Sae Ra On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 at 01:39, Linux Australia President < president at linux.org.au> wrote: > Dear Linux Australia Community, > > Pursuant to clause (15) of the Linux Australia constitution [1] we hereby > declare an election open and call for nominations to the Linux Australia > Council for the term January 2019 to January 2020. > > All office bearer and ordinary committee member positions are open for > election. > > > - Nominations will open from 17 December 2018 until 30 December 2018 > - Voting will open 31st December until 20 January 2019 > - Results will be announced at the AGM in Christchurch, New Zealand at > linux.conf.au on or after 21 January 2019 > > > > The election can be viewed here: > > https://linux.org.au/elections/ > > (You must be logged in to see the elections) > > > What do I need to do? > First of all, make sure your details are correct at https://linux.org.au/ > > If you wish to nominate, identify the positions you wish to nominate for > and get an understanding of what they involve. Think about what you might > bring to the role and prepare a short pitch. Then, accept the nomination > you've been given by clicking the 'Accept nomination' link. > > If you wish to nominate another person for a position, you may wish to > contact them first and have a chat to make sure they're happy being > nominated. Then follow the 'Nominate' link to nominate them. > > Once voting is open, you will be able to vote for candidates. Results will > be announced at the AGM at linux.conf.au in Christchurch in January 2019. > > Why should I nominate? > Being a member of Linux Australia Council is a fun way to meet new people, > work on exciting projects and expand your skill base. It gives you > excellent transferable skills to help build your career, and allows you to > grow your professional network. It looks great on a CV, and is also a > chance to give back to the vibrant Linux and open source ecosystem in > Australia and globally. If you're passionate about Linux and open source, > it's a great opportunity to help drive and steer Australia's contribution > in this field. > > > If you are contemplating nominating for a role on Council, in addition to > referring to the Position Descriptions provided [3], you are strongly > encouraged to approach current and former council members for their > perspective. You will find them, to a person, willing to discuss the roles > and responsibilities in a more informal manner. > > The roles do require a time commitment so please consider this with your > nomination. Each role has been documented for you as a position description > > [1]https://linux.org.au/about-us/constitution/ > [2]http://www.linux.org.au/membership > [3]https://github.com/linuxaustralia/position-descriptions > > As always, your feedback and questions are warmly welcomed. If you'd like > to have a chat with anyone on Council around what it involves, please do > make contact. > > With kind regards, > > > Sae Ra > > > -- > > Sae Ra Germaine > Secretary > Linux Australia > > secretary at linux.org.au > http://linux.org.au > > Linux Australia Inc > GPO Box 4788 > Sydney NSW 2001 > Australia > > ABN 56 987 117 479 > > > _______________________________________________ > announce mailing list > announce at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/announce > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From president at linux.org.au Mon Dec 31 01:46:19 2018 From: president at linux.org.au (Linux Australia President) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 01:46:19 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] DKIM yet again In-Reply-To: <2752378.DAHS4l4snH@xev> References: <2752378.DAHS4l4snH@xev> Message-ID: <8e21ac3f-a668-753e-9e69-8fb0beae6618@linux.org.au> Hi Russell, the Council is busy with reporting requirements and an election before the AGM; this is not a priority for us currently. We will revisit this if we have time. Regards, Kathy On 25/12/18 9:52 am, Russell Coker via linux-aus wrote: > https://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2017-July/023173.html > > Here's a link to a previous discussion of DKIM and Linux Australia lists, > which contains links to previous discussions dating back to 2013. > > Below are the log entries about the latest DKIM failure. Could someone please > set REMOVE_DKIM_HEADERS=Yes in Mailman to solve this issue? > > Also it would be ideal if messages sent out by the Linux Australia servers > were DKIM signed. > > Dec 24 20:25:05 smtp postfix/smtpd[11955]: 5B8CBF638: > client=mailhost.linux.org.au[192.55.98.181] > Dec 24 20:25:05 smtp postfix/cleanup[12096]: 5B8CBF638: message-id=<492883e1- > bd70-ce68-93d2-8d80f94d3631 at linux.org.au> > Dec 24 20:25:06 smtp opendkim[683]: 5B8CBF638: s=default d=kathyreid.id.au SSL > error:04091068:rsa routines:int_rsa_verify:bad signature > Dec 24 20:25:06 smtp opendkim[683]: 5B8CBF638: bad signature data > Dec 24 20:25:06 smtp postfix/cleanup[12096]: 5B8CBF638: milter-reject: END-OF- > MESSAGE from mailhost.linux.org.au[192.55.98.181]: 5.7.0 bad DKIM signature > data; from= to= > proto=ESMTP helo= > -- Kathy Reid President Linux Australia 0418 130 636 president at linux.org.au http://linux.org.au Linux Australia Inc GPO Box 4788 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia ABN 56 987 117 479 From noel.butler at ausics.net Mon Dec 31 11:44:36 2018 From: noel.butler at ausics.net (Noel Butler) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 10:44:36 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] DKIM yet again In-Reply-To: <8e21ac3f-a668-753e-9e69-8fb0beae6618@linux.org.au> References: <2752378.DAHS4l4snH@xev> <8e21ac3f-a668-753e-9e69-8fb0beae6618@linux.org.au> Message-ID: huh? you need a council meeting to determine if someone can add a simple setting to mailman? like... WTF ? Are any of you actually system administrators? if you are, hang your heads in shame if you are that dictatorial over what the sysadmin team can do on the mail/list server, a task that would take no more than 30 seconds. On 31/12/2018 00:46, Linux Australia President via linux-aus wrote: > Hi Russell, the Council is busy with reporting requirements and an election before the AGM; this is not a priority for us currently. We will revisit this if we have time. > > Regards, > > Kathy > > On 25/12/18 9:52 am, Russell Coker via linux-aus wrote: > >> https://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2017-July/023173.html >> >> Here's a link to a previous discussion of DKIM and Linux Australia lists, >> which contains links to previous discussions dating back to 2013. >> >> Below are the log entries about the latest DKIM failure. Could someone please >> set REMOVE_DKIM_HEADERS=Yes in Mailman to solve this issue? >> >> Also it would be ideal if messages sent out by the Linux Australia servers >> were DKIM signed. >> >> Dec 24 20:25:05 smtp postfix/smtpd[11955]: 5B8CBF638: >> client=mailhost.linux.org.au[192.55.98.181] >> Dec 24 20:25:05 smtp postfix/cleanup[12096]: 5B8CBF638: message-id=<492883e1- >> bd70-ce68-93d2-8d80f94d3631 at linux.org.au> >> Dec 24 20:25:06 smtp opendkim[683]: 5B8CBF638: s=default d=kathyreid.id.au SSL >> error:04091068:rsa routines:int_rsa_verify:bad signature >> Dec 24 20:25:06 smtp opendkim[683]: 5B8CBF638: bad signature data >> Dec 24 20:25:06 smtp postfix/cleanup[12096]: 5B8CBF638: milter-reject: END-OF- >> MESSAGE from mailhost.linux.org.au[192.55.98.181]: 5.7.0 bad DKIM signature >> data; from= to= >> proto=ESMTP helo= > -- > Kathy Reid > President > Linux Australia > > 0418 130 636 > > president at linux.org.au > http://linux.org.au > > Linux Australia Inc > GPO Box 4788 > Sydney NSW 2001 > Australia > > ABN 56 987 117 479 > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -- Kind Regards, Noel Butler This Email, including any attachments, may contain legally privileged information, therefore remains confidential and subject to copyright protected under international law. You may not disseminate, discuss, or reveal, any part, to anyone, without the authors express written authority to do so. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender then delete all copies of this message including attachments, immediately. Confidentiality, copyright, and legal privilege are not waived or lost by reason of the mistaken delivery of this message. Only PDF [1] and ODF [2] documents accepted, please do not send proprietary formatted documents Links: ------ [1] http://www.adobe.com/ [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From president at linux.org.au Mon Dec 31 11:50:17 2018 From: president at linux.org.au (Linux Australia President) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 11:50:17 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] DKIM yet again In-Reply-To: References: <2752378.DAHS4l4snH@xev> <8e21ac3f-a668-753e-9e69-8fb0beae6618@linux.org.au> Message-ID: <7dd7f493-ec4b-3751-f46b-f6934c0f3211@linux.org.au> Noel, I'm going to give you an opportunity to reconsider your approach here. It's unprofessional, and quite frankly, downright rude. Implementing DKIM has a number of follow on impacts, as we've seen from previous work in this space, which need to be considered. You may also wish to consider that it is currently New Years' Eve, and our Admin Team (and Council) may be enjoying some well-earned rest and recreation. I'm not going to bother them with DKIM at this time. Kathy On 31/12/18 11:44 am, Noel Butler via linux-aus wrote: > > huh? you need a council meeting to determine if someone can add a > simple setting to mailman? like...? WTF ? > > Are any of you actually system administrators?? if you are, hang your > heads in shame if you are that dictatorial over what the sysadmin team > can do on the mail/list server, a task that would take no more than 30 > seconds. > > > On 31/12/2018 00:46, Linux Australia President via linux-aus wrote: > >> Hi Russell, the Council is busy with reporting requirements and an >> election before the AGM; this is not a priority for us currently. We >> will revisit this if we have time. >> >> Regards, >> >> Kathy >> >> On?25/12/18?9:52?am,?Russell?Coker?via?linux-aus?wrote: >>> https://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2017-July/023173.html >>> >>> Here's?a?link?to?a?previous?discussion?of?DKIM?and?Linux?Australia?lists, >>> which?contains?links?to?previous?discussions?dating?back?to?2013. >>> >>> Below?are?the?log?entries?about?the?latest?DKIM?failure.??Could?someone?please >>> set?REMOVE_DKIM_HEADERS=Yes?in?Mailman?to?solve?this?issue? >>> >>> Also?it?would?be?ideal?if?messages?sent?out?by?the?Linux?Australia?servers >>> were?DKIM?signed. >>> >>> Dec?24?20:25:05?smtp?postfix/smtpd[11955]:?5B8CBF638: >>> client=mailhost.linux.org.au[192.55.98.181] >>> Dec?24?20:25:05?smtp?postfix/cleanup[12096]:?5B8CBF638:?message-id=<492883e1- >>> bd70-ce68-93d2-8d80f94d3631 at linux.org.au >>> > >>> Dec?24?20:25:06?smtp?opendkim[683]:?5B8CBF638:?s=default?d=kathyreid.id.au?SSL >>> error:04091068:rsa?routines:int_rsa_verify:bad?signature >>> Dec?24?20:25:06?smtp?opendkim[683]:?5B8CBF638:?bad?signature?data >>> Dec?24?20:25:06?smtp?postfix/cleanup[12096]:?5B8CBF638:?milter-reject:?END-OF- >>> MESSAGE?from?mailhost.linux.org.au[192.55.98.181]:?5.7.0?bad?DKIM?signature >>> data;?from=>> >?to=>> > >>> proto=ESMTP?helo= >>> >> --? >> Kathy?Reid >> President >> Linux?Australia >> >> 0418?130?636 >> >> president at linux.org.au >> http://linux.org.au >> >> Linux?Australia?Inc >> GPO?Box?4788 >> Sydney?NSW?2001 >> Australia >> >> ABN?56?987?117?479 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> linux-aus?mailing?list >> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au >> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus >> >> To?unsubscribe?from?this?list,?send?a?blank?email?to >> linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au >> > > > -- > > Kind Regards, > > Noel Butler > > This Email, including any attachments, may contain legally privileged > information, therefore remains confidential and subject to copyright > protected under international law. You may not disseminate, discuss, > or reveal, any part, to anyone, without the authors express written > authority to do so. If you are not the intended recipient, please > notify the sender then delete all copies of this message including > attachments, immediately. Confidentiality, copyright, and legal > privilege are not waived or lost by reason of the mistaken delivery of > this message. Only PDF and ODF > documents accepted, please > do not send proprietary formatted documents > > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -- Kathy Reid President Linux Australia 0418 130 636 president at linux.org.au http://linux.org.au Linux Australia Inc GPO Box 4788 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia ABN 56 987 117 479 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.t.bell91 at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 11:51:36 2018 From: david.t.bell91 at gmail.com (David Bell) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 11:51:36 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] DKIM yet again In-Reply-To: References: <2752378.DAHS4l4snH@xev> <8e21ac3f-a668-753e-9e69-8fb0beae6618@linux.org.au> Message-ID: I believe Kathy's email was more around priorities than what is required to make a decision. Linux Australia has mandated reporting and administration which must be completed by a certain deadline. Changes to emails, whilst nice, aren't a requirement of the organisation at this busy administrative time (which, unfortunately, overlaps with a time most would prefer to spend with friends and family relaxing). On Mon., 31 Dec. 2018, 11:45 Noel Butler via linux-aus < linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au wrote: > huh? you need a council meeting to determine if someone can add a simple > setting to mailman? like... WTF ? > > Are any of you actually system administrators? if you are, hang your > heads in shame if you are that dictatorial over what the sysadmin team can > do on the mail/list server, a task that would take no more than 30 seconds. > > > On 31/12/2018 00:46, Linux Australia President via linux-aus wrote: > > Hi Russell, the Council is busy with reporting requirements and an > election before the AGM; this is not a priority for us currently. We will > revisit this if we have time. > > Regards, > > Kathy > > On 25/12/18 9:52 am, Russell Coker via linux-aus wrote: > > https://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2017-July/023173.html > > Here's a link to a previous discussion of DKIM and Linux Australia lists, > which contains links to previous discussions dating back to 2013. > > > Below are the log entries about the latest DKIM failure. Could someone please > set REMOVE_DKIM_HEADERS=Yes in Mailman to solve this issue? > > Also it would be ideal if messages sent out by the Linux Australia servers > were DKIM signed. > > Dec 24 20:25:05 smtp postfix/smtpd[11955]: 5B8CBF638: > client=mailhost.linux.org.au[192.55.98.181] > > Dec 24 20:25:05 smtp postfix/cleanup[12096]: 5B8CBF638: message-id=<492883e1- > bd70-ce68-93d2-8d80f94d3631 at linux.org.au> > Dec 24 20:25:06 smtp opendkim[683]: 5B8CBF638: s=default d=kathyreid.id.au > SSL > error:04091068:rsa routines:int_rsa_verify:bad signature > Dec 24 20:25:06 smtp opendkim[683]: 5B8CBF638: bad signature data > > Dec 24 20:25:06 smtp postfix/cleanup[12096]: 5B8CBF638: milter-reject: END-OF- > MESSAGE from mailhost.linux.org.au > [192.55.98.181]: 5.7.0 bad DKIM signature > data; from= to= > proto=ESMTP helo= > > -- > Kathy Reid > President > Linux Australia > > 0418 130 636 > > president at linux.org.au > http://linux.org.au > > Linux Australia Inc > GPO Box 4788 > Sydney NSW 2001 > Australia > > ABN 56 987 117 479 > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au > > > -- > > Kind Regards, > > Noel Butler > This Email, including any attachments, may contain legally privileged > information, therefore remains confidential and subject to copyright > protected under international law. You may not disseminate, discuss, or > reveal, any part, to anyone, without the authors express written authority > to do so. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender > then delete all copies of this message including attachments, immediately. > Confidentiality, copyright, and legal privilege are not waived or lost by > reason of the mistaken delivery of this message. Only PDF > and ODF > documents accepted, please do > not send proprietary formatted documents > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noel.butler at ausics.net Mon Dec 31 12:06:29 2018 From: noel.butler at ausics.net (Noel Butler) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 11:06:29 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] DKIM yet again In-Reply-To: <7dd7f493-ec4b-3751-f46b-f6934c0f3211@linux.org.au> References: <2752378.DAHS4l4snH@xev> <8e21ac3f-a668-753e-9e69-8fb0beae6618@linux.org.au> <7dd7f493-ec4b-3751-f46b-f6934c0f3211@linux.org.au> Message-ID: I've run mail servers including for ISP's for 25 years or so, although I personally dont run DKIM, some of the servers I run do, and so are very aware of whats involved. Whats unprofessional here is councils usual "it's not an open source software idea so shaft it again till whenever", perhaps the new council will take a different approach and address the request and be transparent about it and in a timely manor. As for NYE? seriously? This has been brought up a few times, well before NYE. No wonder this place is loosing active members. Council has done a lot of good, but its lacks in other areas when it comes to something that doesn't suite them. Cheers On 31/12/2018 10:50, Linux Australia President wrote: > Noel, I'm going to give you an opportunity to reconsider your approach here. It's unprofessional, and quite frankly, downright rude. > > Implementing DKIM has a number of follow on impacts, as we've seen from previous work in this space, which need to be considered. > > You may also wish to consider that it is currently New Years' Eve, and our Admin Team (and Council) may be enjoying some well-earned rest and recreation. I'm not going to bother them with DKIM at this time. > > Kathy > > On 31/12/18 11:44 am, Noel Butler via linux-aus wrote: > > huh? you need a council meeting to determine if someone can add a simple setting to mailman? like... WTF ? > > Are any of you actually system administrators? if you are, hang your heads in shame if you are that dictatorial over what the sysadmin team can do on the mail/list server, a task that would take no more than 30 seconds. > > On 31/12/2018 00:46, Linux Australia President via linux-aus wrote: > Hi Russell, the Council is busy with reporting requirements and an election before the AGM; this is not a priority for us currently. We will revisit this if we have time. > > Regards, > > Kathy > > On 25/12/18 9:52 am, Russell Coker via linux-aus wrote: https://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2017-July/023173.html > > Here's a link to a previous discussion of DKIM and Linux Australia lists, > which contains links to previous discussions dating back to 2013. > > Below are the log entries about the latest DKIM failure. Could someone please > set REMOVE_DKIM_HEADERS=Yes in Mailman to solve this issue? > > Also it would be ideal if messages sent out by the Linux Australia servers > were DKIM signed. > > Dec 24 20:25:05 smtp postfix/smtpd[11955]: 5B8CBF638: > client=mailhost.linux.org.au[192.55.98.181] > Dec 24 20:25:05 smtp postfix/cleanup[12096]: 5B8CBF638: message-id=<492883e1- > bd70-ce68-93d2-8d80f94d3631 at linux.org.au> > Dec 24 20:25:06 smtp opendkim[683]: 5B8CBF638: s=default d=kathyreid.id.au SSL > error:04091068:rsa routines:int_rsa_verify:bad signature > Dec 24 20:25:06 smtp opendkim[683]: 5B8CBF638: bad signature data > Dec 24 20:25:06 smtp postfix/cleanup[12096]: 5B8CBF638: milter-reject: END-OF- > MESSAGE from mailhost.linux.org.au[192.55.98.181]: 5.7.0 bad DKIM signature > data; from= to= > proto=ESMTP helo= > > -- > Kathy Reid > President > Linux Australia > > 0418 130 636 > > president at linux.org.au > http://linux.org.au > > Linux Australia Inc > GPO Box 4788 > Sydney NSW 2001 > Australia > > ABN 56 987 117 479 > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -- Kind Regards, Noel Butler This Email, including any attachments, may contain legally privileged information, therefore remains confidential and subject to copyright protected under international law. You may not disseminate, discuss, or reveal, any part, to anyone, without the authors express written authority to do so. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender then delete all copies of this message including attachments, immediately. Confidentiality, copyright, and legal privilege are not waived or lost by reason of the mistaken delivery of this message. Only PDF [1] and ODF [2] documents accepted, please do not send proprietary formatted documents _______________________________________________ linux-aus mailing list linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -- Kathy Reid President Linux Australia 0418 130 636 president at linux.org.au http://linux.org.au Linux Australia Inc GPO Box 4788 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia ABN 56 987 117 479 -- Kind Regards, Noel Butler This Email, including any attachments, may contain legally privileged information, therefore remains confidential and subject to copyright protected under international law. You may not disseminate, discuss, or reveal, any part, to anyone, without the authors express written authority to do so. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender then delete all copies of this message including attachments, immediately. Confidentiality, copyright, and legal privilege are not waived or lost by reason of the mistaken delivery of this message. Only PDF [1] and ODF [2] documents accepted, please do not send proprietary formatted documents Links: ------ [1] http://www.adobe.com/ [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From neill.cox at ingenious.com.au Mon Dec 31 12:41:33 2018 From: neill.cox at ingenious.com.au (Neill Cox) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 12:41:33 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] DKIM yet again In-Reply-To: References: <2752378.DAHS4l4snH@xev> <8e21ac3f-a668-753e-9e69-8fb0beae6618@linux.org.au> <7dd7f493-ec4b-3751-f46b-f6934c0f3211@linux.org.au> Message-ID: Noel, As someone who is not on the council, and doesn't even know most of the current council well (so no personal axe to grind)... You are indeed being both rude and unprofessional. Please walk away from the keyboard for a while and consider your manner. I can understand your frustration, but the way you are expressing is not helping. Regards, Neill On Mon., 31 Dec. 2018, 12:06 Noel Butler via linux-aus < linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au wrote: > I've run mail servers including for ISP's for 25 years or so, although I > personally dont run DKIM, some of the servers I run do, and so are very > aware of whats involved. > > Whats unprofessional here is councils usual "it's not an open source > software idea so shaft it again till whenever", perhaps the new council > will take a different approach and address the request and be transparent > about it and in a timely manor. > > As for NYE? seriously? This has been brought up a few times, well before > NYE. > > No wonder this place is loosing active members. Council has done a lot of > good, but its lacks in other areas when it comes to something that doesn't > suite them. > > Cheers > > > On 31/12/2018 10:50, Linux Australia President wrote: > > Noel, I'm going to give you an opportunity to reconsider your approach > here. It's unprofessional, and quite frankly, downright rude. > > Implementing DKIM has a number of follow on impacts, as we've seen from > previous work in this space, which need to be considered. > > You may also wish to consider that it is currently New Years' Eve, and our > Admin Team (and Council) may be enjoying some well-earned rest and > recreation. I'm not going to bother them with DKIM at this time. > > Kathy > > > On 31/12/18 11:44 am, Noel Butler via linux-aus wrote: > > huh? you need a council meeting to determine if someone can add a simple > setting to mailman? like... WTF ? > > Are any of you actually system administrators? if you are, hang your > heads in shame if you are that dictatorial over what the sysadmin team can > do on the mail/list server, a task that would take no more than 30 seconds. > > > On 31/12/2018 00:46, Linux Australia President via linux-aus wrote: > > Hi Russell, the Council is busy with reporting requirements and an > election before the AGM; this is not a priority for us currently. We will > revisit this if we have time. > > Regards, > > Kathy > > On 25/12/18 9:52 am, Russell Coker via linux-aus wrote: > > https://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2017-July/023173.html > > Here's a link to a previous discussion of DKIM and Linux Australia lists, > which contains links to previous discussions dating back to 2013. > > > Below are the log entries about the latest DKIM failure. Could someone please > set REMOVE_DKIM_HEADERS=Yes in Mailman to solve this issue? > > Also it would be ideal if messages sent out by the Linux Australia servers > were DKIM signed. > > Dec 24 20:25:05 smtp postfix/smtpd[11955]: 5B8CBF638: > client=mailhost.linux.org.au[192.55.98.181] > > Dec 24 20:25:05 smtp postfix/cleanup[12096]: 5B8CBF638: message-id=<492883e1- > bd70-ce68-93d2-8d80f94d3631 at linux.org.au> > Dec 24 20:25:06 smtp opendkim[683]: 5B8CBF638: s=default d=kathyreid.id.au > SSL > error:04091068:rsa routines:int_rsa_verify:bad signature > Dec 24 20:25:06 smtp opendkim[683]: 5B8CBF638: bad signature data > > Dec 24 20:25:06 smtp postfix/cleanup[12096]: 5B8CBF638: milter-reject: END-OF- > MESSAGE from mailhost.linux.org.au > [192.55.98.181]: 5.7.0 bad DKIM signature > data; from= to= > proto=ESMTP helo= > > -- > Kathy Reid > President > Linux Australia > > 0418 130 636 > > president at linux.org.au > http://linux.org.au > > Linux Australia Inc > GPO Box 4788 > Sydney NSW 2001 > Australia > > ABN 56 987 117 479 > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au > > > -- > > Kind Regards, > > Noel Butler > This Email, including any attachments, may contain legally privileged > information, therefore remains confidential and subject to copyright > protected under international law. You may not disseminate, discuss, or > reveal, any part, to anyone, without the authors express written authority > to do so. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender > then delete all copies of this message including attachments, immediately. > Confidentiality, copyright, and legal privilege are not waived or lost by > reason of the mistaken delivery of this message. Only PDF > and ODF > documents accepted, please do > not send proprietary formatted documents > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing listlinux-aus at lists.linux.org.auhttp://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email tolinux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au > > -- > Kathy Reid > President > Linux Australia > > 0418 130 636 > president at linux.org.auhttp://linux.org.au > > Linux Australia Inc > GPO Box 4788 > Sydney NSW 2001 > Australia > > ABN 56 987 117 479 > > > -- > > Kind Regards, > > Noel Butler > This Email, including any attachments, may contain legally privileged > information, therefore remains confidential and subject to copyright > protected under international law. You may not disseminate, discuss, or > reveal, any part, to anyone, without the authors express written authority > to do so. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender > then delete all copies of this message including attachments, immediately. > Confidentiality, copyright, and legal privilege are not waived or lost by > reason of the mistaken delivery of this message. Only PDF > and ODF > documents accepted, please do > not send proprietary formatted documents > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to > linux-aus-unsubscribe at lists.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From russell-linuxaus at stuart.id.au Mon Dec 31 13:15:36 2018 From: russell-linuxaus at stuart.id.au (Russell Stuart) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 12:15:36 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] DKIM yet again In-Reply-To: References: <2752378.DAHS4l4snH@xev> <8e21ac3f-a668-753e-9e69-8fb0beae6618@linux.org.au> Message-ID: <1546222536.5900.16.camel@stuart.id.au> On Mon, 2018-12-31 at 10:44 +1000, Noel Butler via linux-aus wrote: > huh? you need a council meeting to determine if someone can add a > simple setting to mailman? like...? WTF ? > > Are any of you actually system administrators???if you are, hang your > heads in shame if you are that dictatorial over what the sysadmin > team can do on the mail/list server, a task that would take no more > than 30 seconds. Noel, It's a people problem, not a technical problem. I'm on the council and I manage Humbug's servers. Humbug's servers run mailman, DKIM sign everything, use SPF and do DMARC just fine. Clearly if I ran things it would be fixed. But I don't run things. I'm part of a bureaucracy that runs things because that's how the organisation must be run. A dictatorship would be untenable to most of LA's members, but more importantly completely untenable to me. It runs against everything I believe in. That aside it's completely impracticable - no one individual has the time to do all the things that LA does. I'm fond of saying there is nothing dumber than a bureaucracy. I sincerely believe that it's true, but it does mean I am part of something that sometimes behaves in ways I like you find inexplicable. But I'm conceited enough not to consider myself stupid and the other council members are some of the smartest people I've had the pleasure of working with. Why it turns out this way is a bit of a conundrum, but I suspect it has something to do with all having limited time to work with each other, and the shear amount of time and effort it takes for all of us to come to appreciate each others point of view so we can act as a group, and not a dictatorship. This problem gets worse as the groups get larger, and LA and it's subcommittees are a very large group. (You may not realise that most of LA's activities and that includes almost all of the money the money that flows through the organisation is not managed by LA's executive or me, the treasurer. Rather it's handled by the subcommittees, most of whom I've never met personally. Yet aside from the odd niggle like this, it works pretty smoothly.) It helps if everyone behaves constructively. For example, we all know to fix a problem you have to find the root cause. If you are posting about an apparent technical problem to linuxaus, you know the root cause will almost certainly not be technical as you are dealing with one of the most technically astute groups on the planet. It will probably lack of something - time, motivation, equipment, or perhaps organisational bitrot (eg the person with the private keys has moved on). Whatever it is, if you care about it pro-actively seeking out the real cause and coming up with a fix is helpful, telling them what they already know as you did here is not. It really does help when everyone pulls in the same direction. Apart from that I'm not sure what the solution is, other than to say things tend to work themselves out over time.??A bureaucracy may be slow, but it has a inevitability to it that rewards those who are patient and persistent.??This is Russell's second year at it, and if he keeps it up I am sure it will be fixed.??Eventually. From russell at coker.com.au Mon Dec 31 14:29:56 2018 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 14:29:56 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] DKIM yet again In-Reply-To: <8e21ac3f-a668-753e-9e69-8fb0beae6618@linux.org.au> References: <2752378.DAHS4l4snH@xev> <8e21ac3f-a668-753e-9e69-8fb0beae6618@linux.org.au> Message-ID: <1555321.oMRusOX3jx@liv> On Monday, 31 December 2018 1:46:19 AM AEDT Linux Australia President wrote: > Hi Russell, the Council is busy with reporting requirements and an > election before the AGM; this is not a priority for us currently. We > will revisit this if we have time. Could we schedule a time to make the 1 line config file change that has been discussed repeatedly over the course of years? Seriously, 1 line is all that's required to make this issue go away and to stop having people get unsubscribed from LA lists due to DKIM failures. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From steve at nerdvana.org.au Mon Dec 31 14:34:57 2018 From: steve at nerdvana.org.au (Steve Walsh) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 14:34:57 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] DKIM yet again In-Reply-To: <1555321.oMRusOX3jx@liv> References: <2752378.DAHS4l4snH@xev> <8e21ac3f-a668-753e-9e69-8fb0beae6618@linux.org.au> <1555321.oMRusOX3jx@liv> Message-ID: <7c841d50-745b-24bd-34f0-3f7a2c727bd5@nerdvana.org.au> Hello Russell On 31/12/18 2:29 pm, Russell Coker via linux-aus wrote: > Seriously, 1 line is all that's required to make this issue go away and to > stop having people get unsubscribed from LA lists due to DKIM failures. I'm certainly not seeing the swathe of unsubscribes (either DKIM related or deleted addresses) that you are, can you give me an idea of what rate you're seeing them at? From noel.butler at ausics.net Mon Dec 31 14:50:18 2018 From: noel.butler at ausics.net (Noel Butler) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 13:50:18 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] DKIM yet again In-Reply-To: References: <2752378.DAHS4l4snH@xev> <8e21ac3f-a668-753e-9e69-8fb0beae6618@linux.org.au> <7dd7f493-ec4b-3751-f46b-f6934c0f3211@linux.org.au> Message-ID: Ahhhhhh so this is an organisation where when somethings broken or wrong, or we disagree with, we just shut up and move on, or we walk on cotton wool saying same but can never criticize, else you are accused of being rude, unprofessional, sadistic, a troll ...... in the real world you have to take the bad with the good, but not here eh... perhaps I should reconsider my membership and support of such a fairytale organisation then. On 31/12/2018 11:41, Neill Cox wrote: > Noel, > > As someone who is not on the council, and doesn't even know most of the current council well (so no personal axe to grind)... > > You are indeed being both rude and unprofessional. Please walk away from the keyboard for a while and consider your manner. > > I can understand your frustration, but the way you are expressing is not helping. > > Regards, > Neill -- Kind Regards, Noel Butler This Email, including any attachments, may contain legally privileged information, therefore remains confidential and subject to copyright protected under international law. You may not disseminate, discuss, or reveal, any part, to anyone, without the authors express written authority to do so. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender then delete all copies of this message including attachments, immediately. Confidentiality, copyright, and legal privilege are not waived or lost by reason of the mistaken delivery of this message. Only PDF [1] and ODF [2] documents accepted, please do not send proprietary formatted documents Links: ------ [1] http://www.adobe.com/ [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kenosti at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 14:58:36 2018 From: kenosti at gmail.com (Anestis Kozakis) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 14:58:36 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] DKIM yet again In-Reply-To: References: <2752378.DAHS4l4snH@xev> <8e21ac3f-a668-753e-9e69-8fb0beae6618@linux.org.au> <7dd7f493-ec4b-3751-f46b-f6934c0f3211@linux.org.au> Message-ID: I don't post/reply much as I'm content to let things be run and am generally happy as to how things are run, but in this I had to speak up. Are people freakin' serious? Russell C. made the request. The council said they'd consider it. It's New Year's Eve. Let the Council do it's end of year admin stuff, get on with the election, and, when all is done, it can be revisited. As also mentioned it's New Year's Eve, people preferring to spend time with family and friends to greet in the New Year. So much for Love, Respect, and GoodWill to All during the holiday season. Have some respect people! Let it be for now. It will be considered by the council when the council has time to consider it, and right now is not a good time. Besides, I haven't had any issues with DKIM issues, so it can't be that big an issue. Anestis. On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 at 14:50, Noel Butler via linux-aus < linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> wrote: > Ahhhhhh so this is an organisation where when somethings broken or > wrong, or we disagree with, we just shut up and move on, or we walk on > cotton wool saying same but can never criticize, else you are accused of > being rude, unprofessional, sadistic, a troll ...... in the real world you > have to take the bad with the good, but not here eh... > > perhaps I should reconsider my membership and support of such a fairytale > organisation then. > > On 31/12/2018 11:41, Neill Cox wrote: > > Noel, > > As someone who is not on the council, and doesn't even know most of the > current council well (so no personal axe to grind)... > > You are indeed being both rude and unprofessional. Please walk away from > the keyboard for a while and consider your manner. > > I can understand your frustration, but the way you are expressing is not > helping. > > Regards, > Neill > > > -- > > Kind Regards, > > Noel Butler > -- Anestis Kozakis | kenosti at gmail.com - "In Numenera, players are not rewarded for slaying foes in combat, so using a smart idea to avoid combat and still succeed is just good play. Likewise, coming up with an idea to defeat a foe without hammering on it with weapons is encouraged - creativity is not cheating!" - Numenera Core RuleBook - Page 102 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ctudball at outlook.com Mon Dec 31 15:09:52 2018 From: ctudball at outlook.com (Cameron Tudball) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 04:09:52 +0000 Subject: [Linux-aus] DKIM yet again In-Reply-To: References: <2752378.DAHS4l4snH@xev> <8e21ac3f-a668-753e-9e69-8fb0beae6618@linux.org.au> <7dd7f493-ec4b-3751-f46b-f6934c0f3211@linux.org.au> , Message-ID: > Ahhhhhh so this is an organisation where when somethings broken or wrong, or we disagree with, we just shut up and move on, or we walk on cotton wool saying same but can never criticize, There is a difference between offering criticism, and being mean by putting others down. If you want something fixed, offering a solution is an approach that will be taken on board and discussed. I'm not sure what community exists where complaining and insulting people who are volunteering their time leads to productive outcomes. I've never seen such a community organisation. As it currently stands, the current mail configuration works just fine for myself. Therefore, on the lists of possible things that could be done for LA, investigating edge cases for the mail setup is way down on my priority list. I would suggest if you want it fixed, explain your problem in a way that allows me to build empathy. That way, your problem becomes my problem, and we can both get a solution. -- Cameron Tudball ________________________________ From: linux-aus on behalf of Noel Butler via linux-aus Sent: Monday, 31 December 2018 2:50 PM To: linux-aus Subject: Re: [Linux-aus] DKIM yet again Ahhhhhh so this is an organisation where when somethings broken or wrong, or we disagree with, we just shut up and move on, or we walk on cotton wool saying same but can never criticize, else you are accused of being rude, unprofessional, sadistic, a troll ...... in the real world you have to take the bad with the good, but not here eh... perhaps I should reconsider my membership and support of such a fairytale organisation then. On 31/12/2018 11:41, Neill Cox wrote: Noel, As someone who is not on the council, and doesn't even know most of the current council well (so no personal axe to grind)... You are indeed being both rude and unprofessional. Please walk away from the keyboard for a while and consider your manner. I can understand your frustration, but the way you are expressing is not helping. Regards, Neill -- Kind Regards, Noel Butler This Email, including any attachments, may contain legally privileged information, therefore remains confidential and subject to copyright protected under international law. You may not disseminate, discuss, or reveal, any part, to anyone, without the authors express written authority to do so. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender then delete all copies of this message including attachments, immediately. Confidentiality, copyright, and legal privilege are not waived or lost by reason of the mistaken delivery of this message. Only PDF and ODF documents accepted, please do not send proprietary formatted documents -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From a.nielsen at shikadi.net Mon Dec 31 16:33:14 2018 From: a.nielsen at shikadi.net (Adam Nielsen) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 15:33:14 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] DKIM yet again In-Reply-To: <7c841d50-745b-24bd-34f0-3f7a2c727bd5@nerdvana.org.au> References: <2752378.DAHS4l4snH@xev> <8e21ac3f-a668-753e-9e69-8fb0beae6618@linux.org.au> <1555321.oMRusOX3jx@liv> <7c841d50-745b-24bd-34f0-3f7a2c727bd5@nerdvana.org.au> Message-ID: <20181231153314.616e85d3@vorticon.teln.shikadi.net> > I'm certainly not seeing the swathe of unsubscribes (either DKIM related > or deleted addresses) that you are, can you give me an idea of what rate > you're seeing them at? Basically every message that comes in is picked up by the spam filter as likely spam, due to the DKIM failure. I worked around the issue by whitelisting the linux-aus list on my mail server, but this is just sweeping the problem under the carpet. If other mail servers aren't configured quite so harshly against DKIM verification failures, them the symptom is that messages from the list will be randomly lost as a spam filter somewhere eats them. I'm not sure how many list members seem to only receive half of a conversation thread but if you seem to be missing messages here and there, this is likely why. Philosophically it is a problem if we, as technical people, are encouraging the adoption of DKIM and other technologies to help reduce spam, but then we can't even get them to work on our own infrastructure. Who is going to rush to implement this stuff on their own servers when the experts are still busy figuring out workarounds? I have yet to see an e-mail list configured correctly that works with DKIM, so I am not convinced that this config change will fix the problem. However linux-aus is in many ways the perfect place to try to get it working, so that we can use it as an example for others to follow. Just to be perfectly clear I am not being critical at all of anyone involved with the infrastructure here, I am speaking in general terms as like I said this is far from the only mailing list with the problem. As a volunteer on other committees I know only too well how thankless it often can be, so I certainly don't want to come across as being unappreciative of anyone's effort. Cheers, Adam. From a.nielsen at shikadi.net Mon Dec 31 16:40:31 2018 From: a.nielsen at shikadi.net (Adam Nielsen) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 15:40:31 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] DKIM yet again In-Reply-To: <20181231153314.616e85d3@vorticon.teln.shikadi.net> References: <2752378.DAHS4l4snH@xev> <8e21ac3f-a668-753e-9e69-8fb0beae6618@linux.org.au> <1555321.oMRusOX3jx@liv> <7c841d50-745b-24bd-34f0-3f7a2c727bd5@nerdvana.org.au> <20181231153314.616e85d3@vorticon.teln.shikadi.net> Message-ID: <20181231154031.0cef5726@vorticon.teln.shikadi.net> > I have yet to see an e-mail list configured correctly that works with > DKIM, so I am not convinced that this config change will fix the > problem. And so with that I notice am no longer getting DKIM verification errors, since about 13:30 today... Cheers, Adam. From lloy0076 at adam.com.au Mon Dec 31 23:40:54 2018 From: lloy0076 at adam.com.au (lloy0076 at adam.com.au) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 07:40:54 -0500 Subject: [Linux-aus] DKIM yet again In-Reply-To: References: <2752378.DAHS4l4snH@xev> <8e21ac3f-a668-753e-9e69-8fb0beae6618@linux.org.au> <7dd7f493-ec4b-3751-f46b-f6934c0f3211@linux.org.au> Message-ID: <04c901d4a106$15d0d3f0$41727bd0$@adam.com.au> If the DKIM filter has stopped messages from triggering some people?s truculent, petulant and childlike behaviour, I?d vote to keep it ? My 2c worth. DSL -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: