From president at linux.org.au Thu Mar 2 08:34:30 2017 From: president at linux.org.au (Linux Australia President) Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2017 08:34:30 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] AUD $35, 000 available in the 2017 Linux Australia Grants Program In-Reply-To: <658f8fc2-2ecd-83ec-3cff-44cdc1c53c05@linux.org.au> References: <658f8fc2-2ecd-83ec-3cff-44cdc1c53c05@linux.org.au> Message-ID: <0ce89a16-2450-25db-6cc7-1d956f25496c@linux.org.au> As of now, we currently have received zero (0) Grant Applications. There's $35k on the table, and we'd like to see it used to do Good Open* Things. Kind regards, Kathy On 16/02/17 22:01, Linux Australia President wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > Linux Australia is delighted to announce the availability of $AUD 35,000 > for open source, open data, open government, open education, open > hardware and open culture projects, as part of the organisation?s > commitment to free and open source systems and communities in the region. > > This year, we have deliberately weighted some areas in which we strongly > welcome grant applications. > > More information is available at: https://linux.org.au/projects/grants > > Please do share this with colleagues who may find it of interest, and > feel free to contact the Linux Australia Council if you would like a > private discussion. > > With kind regards, > > Kathy > > -- Kathy Reid President Linux Australia 0418 130 636 president at linux.org.au http://linux.org.au Linux Australia Inc GPO Box 4788 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia ABN 56 987 117 479 From derrend at yahoo.co.uk Thu Mar 2 11:43:55 2017 From: derrend at yahoo.co.uk (Derren Desouza) Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2017 10:43:55 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant application Cryptoproof In-Reply-To: <0ce89a16-2450-25db-6cc7-1d956f25496c@linux.org.au> References: <658f8fc2-2ecd-83ec-3cff-44cdc1c53c05@linux.org.au> <0ce89a16-2450-25db-6cc7-1d956f25496c@linux.org.au> Message-ID: Project name - Cryptoproof https://cryptoproof.info/ https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1579977.msg15863685#msg15863685 https://github.com/cryptoproofinfo Aim of the project, including any key stages or milestones of the project - Provide a platform to users at zero/near zero cost which they can use to verify the authenticity of products, detect tampering and verity ID to a very hight degree of certainty. Provide producers with various analytics to also detect fraud/misuse and possibly track the location and owner of products. How the success of the project will be measured - The project will be considered successful if it generates enough revenue to sustain it?s own hosting costs and so can remain in service indefinitely. Estimated cost breakdown of the project, including any materials, projects or online services that are required to deliver the project. The cost breakdown should include estimates of labour costs and/or professional services - The vast majority of the work needed to create a working implementation is done already. Some security features are yet to be implemented to the database, the user interface needs an overhaul and many features are yet to be added to the mobile app. The project also needs to be rebased from ubuntu to core os. The project will be hosted on several paas instances, ~$1000 pa. Mobile application features, ~$2000. Web application security and code audit ~$5000. Flat design video tutorial explaining what the project is, what it does and how it works, ~$2000. Desktop tools for easily checking/registering public keys, ~$2000. Advertising, $0, need to make the app robust before I can think about that. So $12,000 in total. (Although I could really do with 2 years worth of hosting if you feel like giving it to me). The project team, their credentials and professional capabilities, especially their history of open source, open data, open hardware or open culture contributions - It?s just me for now. http://stackoverflow.com/users/3335799/derrend https://github.com/derrend https://au.linkedin.com/in/derrend I have been a linux system administrator ~4 years. I produced a security report for Queensland police regarding the potential criminal use cases of cryptocurrencies in 2016. I?m skilled in several programming languages but I don?t have a masters degree in any of them. Blockchain technology is my passion and it?s the main reason I shifted my career focus to computer science. Person responsible for project A statement including a willingness to provide regular project updates on the project - Me again. I hereby state that I am willing to provide regular project updates on the project. Personal statement - I have been working on this project for over two years now. My greatest challenge has been to overcome the learning curve regarding crypto currencies and cryptography to new users of the service. How blockchains and public addresses function and how they can be used in conjunction with a 3rd party provider who maintains a database of information and yet remains practically trustless is difficult to explain in an elevator pitch and so raising money from potential investors, applying for grants or acquiring new users is very difficult. I should also mention that I have applied for a grant for this project previously in 2015. Please feel free to get in touch with me via phone, skype, email. I love to talk about and explain the project day or night ;) Kind regards Derren Desouza On 02/03/17 07:34, Linux Australia President wrote: > As of now, we currently have received zero (0) Grant Applications. > > There's $35k on the table, and we'd like to see it used to do Good Open* > Things. > > Kind regards, > > Kathy > > > On 16/02/17 22:01, Linux Australia President wrote: >> Dear colleagues, >> >> Linux Australia is delighted to announce the availability of $AUD 35,000 >> for open source, open data, open government, open education, open >> hardware and open culture projects, as part of the organisation?s >> commitment to free and open source systems and communities in the region. >> >> This year, we have deliberately weighted some areas in which we strongly >> welcome grant applications. >> >> More information is available at: https://linux.org.au/projects/grants >> >> Please do share this with colleagues who may find it of interest, and >> feel free to contact the Linux Australia Council if you would like a >> private discussion. >> >> With kind regards, >> >> Kathy >> >> > From president at linux.org.au Sat Mar 11 07:32:00 2017 From: president at linux.org.au (Linux Australia President) Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2017 07:32:00 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant application Cryptoproof In-Reply-To: References: <658f8fc2-2ecd-83ec-3cff-44cdc1c53c05@linux.org.au> <0ce89a16-2450-25db-6cc7-1d956f25496c@linux.org.au> Message-ID: <8b79b428-dbba-6711-8d91-100195cf0ac4@linux.org.au> A courtesy note to flag there are 5 days left to provide community feedback on this grant application. No feedback has been received to date. This Grant Application is schedule for discussion at Council Meeting 16th March. Kind regards, Kathy On 02/03/17 11:43, Derren Desouza wrote: > Project name > - > Cryptoproof > https://cryptoproof.info/ > https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1579977.msg15863685#msg15863685 > https://github.com/cryptoproofinfo > > > Aim of the project, including any key stages or milestones of the project > - > Provide a platform to users at zero/near zero cost which they can use > to verify the authenticity of products, detect tampering and verity ID > to a very hight degree of certainty. > > Provide producers with various analytics to also detect fraud/misuse > and possibly track the location and owner of products. > > > How the success of the project will be measured > - > The project will be considered successful if it generates enough > revenue to sustain it?s own hosting costs and so can remain in service > indefinitely. > > > Estimated cost breakdown of the project, including any materials, > projects or online services that are required to deliver the project. > The cost breakdown should include estimates of labour costs and/or > professional services > - > The vast majority of the work needed to create a working > implementation is done already. > Some security features are yet to be implemented to the database, the > user interface needs an overhaul and many features are yet to be added > to the mobile app. > The project also needs to be rebased from ubuntu to core os. > > The project will be hosted on several paas instances, ~$1000 pa. > Mobile application features, ~$2000. > Web application security and code audit ~$5000. > Flat design video tutorial explaining what the project is, what it > does and how it works, ~$2000. > Desktop tools for easily checking/registering public keys, ~$2000. > Advertising, $0, need to make the app robust before I can think about > that. > > So $12,000 in total. (Although I could really do with 2 years worth of > hosting if you feel like giving it to me). > > > The project team, their credentials and professional capabilities, > especially their history of open source, open data, open hardware or > open culture contributions > - > It?s just me for now. > http://stackoverflow.com/users/3335799/derrend > https://github.com/derrend > https://au.linkedin.com/in/derrend > > I have been a linux system administrator ~4 years. > I produced a security report for Queensland police regarding the > potential criminal use cases of cryptocurrencies in 2016. > I?m skilled in several programming languages but I don?t have a > masters degree in any of them. > Blockchain technology is my passion and it?s the main reason I shifted > my career focus to computer science. > > > Person responsible for project > A statement including a willingness to provide regular project updates > on the project > - > Me again. > I hereby state that I am willing to provide regular project updates on > the project. > > > Personal statement > - > I have been working on this project for over two years now. > My greatest challenge has been to overcome the learning curve > regarding crypto currencies and cryptography to new users of the service. > > How blockchains and public addresses function and how they can be used > in conjunction with a 3rd party provider who maintains a database of > information and yet remains practically trustless is difficult to > explain in an elevator pitch and so raising money from potential > investors, applying for grants or acquiring new users is very difficult. > > I should also mention that I have applied for a grant for this project > previously in 2015. > > Please feel free to get in touch with me via phone, skype, email. > I love to talk about and explain the project day or night ;) > > > Kind regards > Derren Desouza > > > On 02/03/17 07:34, Linux Australia President wrote: >> As of now, we currently have received zero (0) Grant Applications. >> >> There's $35k on the table, and we'd like to see it used to do Good Open* >> Things. >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Kathy >> >> >> On 16/02/17 22:01, Linux Australia President wrote: >>> Dear colleagues, >>> >>> Linux Australia is delighted to announce the availability of $AUD >>> 35,000 >>> for open source, open data, open government, open education, open >>> hardware and open culture projects, as part of the organisation?s >>> commitment to free and open source systems and communities in the >>> region. >>> >>> This year, we have deliberately weighted some areas in which we >>> strongly >>> welcome grant applications. >>> >>> More information is available at: https://linux.org.au/projects/grants >>> >>> Please do share this with colleagues who may find it of interest, and >>> feel free to contact the Linux Australia Council if you would like a >>> private discussion. >>> >>> With kind regards, >>> >>> Kathy >>> >>> >> > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus -- Kathy Reid President Linux Australia 0418 130 636 president at linux.org.au http://linux.org.au Linux Australia Inc GPO Box 4788 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia ABN 56 987 117 479 From la at mjec.net Sat Mar 11 09:46:16 2017 From: la at mjec.net (Michael Cordover) Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2017 17:46:16 -0500 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant application Cryptoproof In-Reply-To: <8b79b428-dbba-6711-8d91-100195cf0ac4@linux.org.au> References: <658f8fc2-2ecd-83ec-3cff-44cdc1c53c05@linux.org.au> <0ce89a16-2450-25db-6cc7-1d956f25496c@linux.org.au> <8b79b428-dbba-6711-8d91-100195cf0ac4@linux.org.au> Message-ID: <1489185976.137603.907521984.0E625F94@webmail.messagingengine.com> Hi folks I have a few thoughts. First, the requested grant is a significant amount of money, so I think the return to the community needs to match that. This project appears to have only one contributor, and not to have strong community presence. For me, this project doesn't appear to have sufficient strong utility to justify the significant work involved. In particular, it appears to require a trusted third party to verify a trustless protocol. This doesn't seem to add a lot of value. I'm also struggling a little with the project budget, which is presented in approximate form and without the type of detail I would expect in a grant application. For example, $1000pa PAAS hosting - what host? Why? Is that appropriate given the expected traffic? Who will receive the funds for design, development and audit work? How have these costs been estimated? Finally, this project's key success metric is generating sufficient revenue to be self-sustaining (though I note it does not indicate how that revenue is generated). While generating revenue is not a bad aim per se, I don't think LA should provide business start-up grants. Our grants programs should be community-focused. Building a self-sustaining service that has strong community demand might fall into that category; supporting a for-profit service like this doesn't seem to. For those reasons I'm opposed to making this grant in its current form. Notably, I've made a few assumptions above, and I might be wrong about several of them. Derren, feel free to correct me/provide more detail (on list), and I will re-evaluate. Regards Michael On Fri, Mar 10, 2017, at 15:32, Linux Australia President wrote: > A courtesy note to flag there are 5 days left to provide community > feedback on this grant application. > > No feedback has been received to date. > > This Grant Application is schedule for discussion at Council Meeting > 16th March. > > Kind regards, > > Kathy > > > On 02/03/17 11:43, Derren Desouza wrote: > > Project name > > - > > Cryptoproof > > https://cryptoproof.info/ > > https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1579977.msg15863685#msg15863685 > > https://github.com/cryptoproofinfo > > > > > > Aim of the project, including any key stages or milestones of the project > > - > > Provide a platform to users at zero/near zero cost which they can use > > to verify the authenticity of products, detect tampering and verity ID > > to a very hight degree of certainty. > > > > Provide producers with various analytics to also detect fraud/misuse > > and possibly track the location and owner of products. > > > > > > How the success of the project will be measured > > - > > The project will be considered successful if it generates enough > > revenue to sustain it?s own hosting costs and so can remain in service > > indefinitely. > > > > > > Estimated cost breakdown of the project, including any materials, > > projects or online services that are required to deliver the project. > > The cost breakdown should include estimates of labour costs and/or > > professional services > > - > > The vast majority of the work needed to create a working > > implementation is done already. > > Some security features are yet to be implemented to the database, the > > user interface needs an overhaul and many features are yet to be added > > to the mobile app. > > The project also needs to be rebased from ubuntu to core os. > > > > The project will be hosted on several paas instances, ~$1000 pa. > > Mobile application features, ~$2000. > > Web application security and code audit ~$5000. > > Flat design video tutorial explaining what the project is, what it > > does and how it works, ~$2000. > > Desktop tools for easily checking/registering public keys, ~$2000. > > Advertising, $0, need to make the app robust before I can think about > > that. > > > > So $12,000 in total. (Although I could really do with 2 years worth of > > hosting if you feel like giving it to me). > > > > > > The project team, their credentials and professional capabilities, > > especially their history of open source, open data, open hardware or > > open culture contributions > > - > > It?s just me for now. > > http://stackoverflow.com/users/3335799/derrend > > https://github.com/derrend > > https://au.linkedin.com/in/derrend > > > > I have been a linux system administrator ~4 years. > > I produced a security report for Queensland police regarding the > > potential criminal use cases of cryptocurrencies in 2016. > > I?m skilled in several programming languages but I don?t have a > > masters degree in any of them. > > Blockchain technology is my passion and it?s the main reason I shifted > > my career focus to computer science. > > > > > > Person responsible for project > > A statement including a willingness to provide regular project updates > > on the project > > - > > Me again. > > I hereby state that I am willing to provide regular project updates on > > the project. > > > > > > Personal statement > > - > > I have been working on this project for over two years now. > > My greatest challenge has been to overcome the learning curve > > regarding crypto currencies and cryptography to new users of the service. > > > > How blockchains and public addresses function and how they can be used > > in conjunction with a 3rd party provider who maintains a database of > > information and yet remains practically trustless is difficult to > > explain in an elevator pitch and so raising money from potential > > investors, applying for grants or acquiring new users is very difficult. > > > > I should also mention that I have applied for a grant for this project > > previously in 2015. > > > > Please feel free to get in touch with me via phone, skype, email. > > I love to talk about and explain the project day or night ;) > > > > > > Kind regards > > Derren Desouza > > > > > > On 02/03/17 07:34, Linux Australia President wrote: > >> As of now, we currently have received zero (0) Grant Applications. > >> > >> There's $35k on the table, and we'd like to see it used to do Good Open* > >> Things. > >> > >> Kind regards, > >> > >> Kathy > >> > >> > >> On 16/02/17 22:01, Linux Australia President wrote: > >>> Dear colleagues, > >>> > >>> Linux Australia is delighted to announce the availability of $AUD > >>> 35,000 > >>> for open source, open data, open government, open education, open > >>> hardware and open culture projects, as part of the organisation?s > >>> commitment to free and open source systems and communities in the > >>> region. > >>> > >>> This year, we have deliberately weighted some areas in which we > >>> strongly > >>> welcome grant applications. > >>> > >>> More information is available at: https://linux.org.au/projects/grants > >>> > >>> Please do share this with colleagues who may find it of interest, and > >>> feel free to contact the Linux Australia Council if you would like a > >>> private discussion. > >>> > >>> With kind regards, > >>> > >>> Kathy > >>> > >>> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > linux-aus mailing list > > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > -- > Kathy Reid > President > Linux Australia > > 0418 130 636 > > president at linux.org.au > http://linux.org.au > > Linux Australia Inc > GPO Box 4788 > Sydney NSW 2001 > Australia > > ABN 56 987 117 479 > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus From michael at hybr.id.au Mon Mar 13 15:10:10 2017 From: michael at hybr.id.au (Michael Van Delft) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 12:10:10 +0800 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant application Cryptoproof In-Reply-To: <1489185976.137603.907521984.0E625F94@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <658f8fc2-2ecd-83ec-3cff-44cdc1c53c05@linux.org.au> <0ce89a16-2450-25db-6cc7-1d956f25496c@linux.org.au> <8b79b428-dbba-6711-8d91-100195cf0ac4@linux.org.au> <1489185976.137603.907521984.0E625F94@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: I suspect my spam filter was being overzealous because I missed the first email in this chain. When the first version of this grant application came through in October 2015 http://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2015-October/022212.html I raised a number of concerns and from a quick read through the links provided I don't believe that these issues have been addressed. I don't believe that cryptoproof is fundamentally capable of achieving it's stated goal of proving a physical object is unique and/or genuine and would not recommend Linux Australia fund this application. -- Michael -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From president at linux.org.au Mon Mar 13 17:30:54 2017 From: president at linux.org.au (Linux Australia President) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 17:30:54 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Outreachy applications are now welcomed from women worldwide Message-ID: Hi everyone, On behalf of the Outreachy team at the GNOME Foundation, I'd like to let you know that applications to participate in Outreachy are now welcomed from women worldwide - including Australia. ----- Greetings, Applications are now open for Outreachy, an internship program for people traditionally underrepresented in tech. Outreachy offers remote, three-month internships with a $5,500 stipend and a $500 conference travel stipend. These internships are open world-wide to all women (cis and trans), trans men, and genderqueer people. Additionally, they are open in the U.S, to all Black/African American, Hispanic/Latin@, American Indian, Alaska Native, Native Hawaiian, and Pacific Islander people. https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreachy/ Interns work remotely with experienced mentors in free and open source software projects. The internships are often focused on programming tasks, but some projects offer internships in user experience design, graphic design, documentation, web development, marketing, translation, and more. The Outreachy internships run from May 30 to August 30. More details and eligibility criteria can be found here: https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreachy#Program_Details Applying to Outreachy is a little different than other internship programs. During the application period (February 16 to March 30), potential interns are expected to make contact with one or more of the open source project mentors, and make a contribution to the project. Outreachy coordinators have found that the strongest applicants contact mentors early, ask a lot of questions, and continually submit small contributions throughout the application period. One of the Outreachy coordinators (Sarah Sharp) can give a virtual introductory talk with interested organizations or universities in the coming weeks. You can see her availability and schedule a meeting here: http://doodle.com/sarahsharp Please let me know if you have any questions about the program. The Outreachy coordinators (Marina, Karen, Sarah, Cindy, and Tony) can all be reached at outreachy-admins at gnome.org I hope you'll help us spread the word about the Outreachy internships! p.s. Please note that Google Summer of Code is also accepting applications for their internships: https://developers.google.com/open-source/gsoc/ -- Kathy Reid President Linux Australia 0418 130 636 president at linux.org.au http://linux.org.au Linux Australia Inc GPO Box 4788 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia ABN 56 987 117 479 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From president at linux.org.au Mon Mar 13 22:57:27 2017 From: president at linux.org.au (Linux Australia President) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 22:57:27 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Fwd: Re: [Announce] AUD $35, 000 available in the 2017 Linux Australia Grants Program In-Reply-To: <48cf2a7c-6416-2cc3-9c95-9fc4e39ef9f9@yahoo.co.uk> References: <48cf2a7c-6416-2cc3-9c95-9fc4e39ef9f9@yahoo.co.uk> Message-ID: <759ae396-6ffb-c833-4b11-754ea86ed343@linux.org.au> (Forwarding this to the Linux Aus list - which I'm presuming Derren is not a member of) Best, K. -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: [Announce] AUD $35, 000 available in the 2017 Linux Australia Grants Program Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 21:48:31 +1000 From: Derren Desouza To: Joshua Hesketh , announce at lists.linux.org.au, Joshua Hesketh Hi guys, Just to let you know I'm not actually getting mail from the regarding community feedback, I did a quick google search earlier and found some responses on http://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2017-March/022957.html and so I'm sending this email now to address some of the points being raised. "I'm also struggling a little with the project budget, which is presented in approximate form and without the type of detail I would expect in a grant application. For example, $1000pa PAAS hosting - what host? Why?" I see the point here. In my rush to jot down a budget and send in an application I did only estimate the costs and idealize the situation. >From a bare bones perspective we can exclude noncritical expenses such as re-basing the project to core os and simply run on a single ubuntu instance which would reduce costs considerably. There was $35,000 available and no applicants though so I figured I may as well go for it. "I don't think LA should provide business start-up grants. Our grants programs should be community-focused. Building a self-sustaining service that has strong community demand might fall into that category; supporting a for-profit service like this doesn't seem to." Weather an applicant intends to generate revenue or not is irrelevant I believe. The only consideration of importance should be the value of service provided to the community. Cryptoproof will be available to the global community, it has the potential to prevent people becoming victims of fraud or even ingesting counterfeit medication which is of great benefit in my opinion. Just to provide some perspective, cryptoproof earns $0.01 (expected to be reduced as popularity increases) for each instantiated key which means to cover hosting costs each server instance at $20 per month would require 500 new keys per week so I don't think I'll be shopping for a new Lamborghini any time soon. "I don't believe that cryptoproof is fundamentally capable of achieving it's stated goal of proving a physical object is unique and/or genuine" I get this a lot. This tells me that the community member has failed to understand how it works. In a previous comment it was expressed that it wasn't clear how the service would generate revenue even though it's outlined specifically in the announcement section of the website itself. The ann page gives explicit reasoning as to why the service is trustless and how it achieves it's goals - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1579977.msg15863685#msg15863685 It's certainly not a concept that's easily grasped, I myself had to wrestle with it for a while but if community members have any points they would like me to clarify or any scenarios that don't seem to make sense please let me know and I'll be happy address them. If linux australia sees value in the idea and is interested in helping me bring it to fruition then I'd be happy to work out the details. Of critical importance would be - Web app code audit and review, ~$4000 (less thorough but cheaper) Mobile app feature expansion, ~$2000 Flat design video tutorial and explanation, ~$2000 The rest can be put on the back burner until the service gains in popularity and the request can be reduced to ~$8000 if this is more agreeable. Kind regards Derren -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From a.nielsen at shikadi.net Tue Mar 14 00:58:18 2017 From: a.nielsen at shikadi.net (Adam Nielsen) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 23:58:18 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant application Cryptoproof In-Reply-To: <759ae396-6ffb-c833-4b11-754ea86ed343@linux.org.au> References: <48cf2a7c-6416-2cc3-9c95-9fc4e39ef9f9@yahoo.co.uk> <759ae396-6ffb-c833-4b11-754ea86ed343@linux.org.au> Message-ID: <20170313235818.3a80471a@gik.teln.shikadi.net> > "I don't believe that cryptoproof is fundamentally capable of achieving > it's stated goal of proving a physical object is unique and/or genuine" > > I get this a lot. This tells me that the community member has failed to > understand how it works. In a previous comment it was expressed that it > wasn't clear how the service would generate revenue even though it's > outlined specifically in the announcement section of the website itself. > The ann page gives explicit reasoning as to why the service is trustless > and how it achieves it's goals - > https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1579977.msg15863685#msg15863685 > It's certainly not a concept that's easily grasped, I myself had to > wrestle with it for a while but if community members have any points > they would like me to clarify or any scenarios that don't seem to make > sense please let me know and I'll be happy address them. // TL;DR: There seem to be a number of unanswered questions and after // trying to understand what the proposed online service will do, I // am struggling to find any scenario where it provides something that // cannot be done already with existing means. // The long version: Hi Derren, I'm also struggling to understand so please bear with me. Having read your post at the link, this is my understanding of it. * The Bitcoin BIP32 proposal allows people to take an existing Bitcoin account/address and deterministically generate additional accounts from it, which can be used for sending payment to the original account owner, even without access to the original account's private key. The example given is that a web server can create a new address for each online shopping transaction, without having access to the merchant's private key, and thus funds cannot be spent if the server is compromised. * Your proposal is based around the idea that these generated keys can be traced back to the original parent key, to prove that they are all owned by the same entity. * You propose to do this by storing the original (public) key (Bitcoin account number) on servers controlled by you, and providing a service to verify that any given child key/account is attached to this parent. * The parent key is public, so anyone can also perform this verification themselves, with suitable software and no need to trust a third party. * A merchant needs an SSL certificate hosted at a HTTPS URL in order to verify their identity with your proposed service. Why can't the merchant just display the child key (=Bitcoin account number for payment) to their customers during checkout, with verification provided by the encrypted HTTPS connection and SSL certificate? * You propose to record each time a child key is queried through your service, under the assumption that the first query will be from the original purchaser. If a query is performed and it is not the first, then you seem to suggest that this could mean the item being purchased is counterfeit, however this does not make sense to me - why would a counterfeiter ask you to pay the original company? * You propose that this same query mechanism can be used to confirm that only one copy of the item is in existence, by checking how many times a child key has been "submitted" previously. However a merchant can simply generate more child addresses at will, so I do not see how this mechanism alone would guarantee uniqueness. * You say that by branding each purchased item (which I assume means physically marking the merchandise with the child key) it will ensure that the customer receives the item that was sent, and will quickly discover if it has been substituted with another item during transit. This doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Why does the merchant need your service for this? They have already told the customer where to send payment over a secure HTTPS connection, so they can just stamp this unique account number on the merchandise without using your service and the customer will know what identifier to look for. Also, what's to stop someone intercepting the package and simply reading off this watermark and applying it to their counterfeit product anyway? If I am misunderstanding something please correct me. As far as I can make out, BIP32 suggests that anyone can verify that a given child key belongs to a given parent key, so there does not appear to be the need for an online service to do this, other than convenience until it is included in standard Bitcoin wallet software. I also cannot see how recording the number of times an address has been used would prevent counterfeiting. You can already look up Bitcoin addresses on blockchain.info to see whether an address has been used previously or not, so I can't see what your proposed service would add in this regard. Lastly, I can't see how physically marking the merchandise would prevent counterfeiting, and even if it did, I can't see why your service would need to be involved when the merchant and customer already have a secure communication channel where they can tell each other what markings to look for to check product authenticity. This has turned out to be a rather long message for which I apologise, but it seems I am grossly misunderstanding how your proposed service would work! With the understanding I have as I write this, it seems that the proposal doesn't really add anything to the Bitcoin ecosystem that isn't there already. Hopefully you can explain what I am missing. Kind regards, Adam. From ilox11 at gmail.com Tue Mar 14 14:39:42 2017 From: ilox11 at gmail.com (Ian) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 14:09:42 +1030 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant application Cryptoproof In-Reply-To: <1489185976.137603.907521984.0E625F94@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <658f8fc2-2ecd-83ec-3cff-44cdc1c53c05@linux.org.au> <0ce89a16-2450-25db-6cc7-1d956f25496c@linux.org.au> <8b79b428-dbba-6711-8d91-100195cf0ac4@linux.org.au> <1489185976.137603.907521984.0E625F94@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: Michael Cordover said: "Finally, this project's key success metric is generating sufficient revenue to be self-sustaining (though I note it does not indicate how that revenue is generated). While generating revenue is not a bad aim per se, I don't think LA should provide business start-up grants. Our grants programs should be community-focused. Building a self-sustaining service that has strong community demand might fall into that category; supporting a for-profit service like this doesn't seem to." I agree completely and that is one of a number of reasons why I do not support this Grant Application. (the other reasons revolve around the perceptions of others that it is not capable of achieving the stated goals plus the funding for and reliance on only one person to achieve the goals.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From president at linux.org.au Fri Mar 17 11:26:23 2017 From: president at linux.org.au (Linux Australia President) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 11:26:23 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application - Cryptoproof - Declined Message-ID: Dear Derren, Thank you for your Grant Application under the Linux Australia Grants programme for 'CryptoProof'. Based on community feedback, this Grant Application is respectfully declined. With kind regards, Kathy -- Kathy Reid President Linux Australia 0418 130 636 president at linux.org.au http://linux.org.au Linux Australia Inc GPO Box 4788 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia ABN 56 987 117 479 From president at linux.org.au Sun Mar 19 10:22:34 2017 From: president at linux.org.au (Linux Australia President) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 10:22:34 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Cartesian Creative partners with Linux Australia Grants Program to improve open source UX Message-ID: <049728ed-c379-faf3-5530-59d95d92c7de@linux.org.au> Dear Colleagues, Cartesian Creative, a Melbourne-based design and software agency, are partnering with Linux Australia, offering up to $4k matched funding on Grants aimed at improving the user experience (UX) of open source software projects. Matched dollar for dollar by Linux Australia, this means that UX improvement projects could receive up to $AUD 8k in funding. Duncan Macneil, Senior UX Analyst at Cartesian Creative was excited at the value the partnership will deliver. "Open Source projects don't often get the luxury of time spent on UX concerns. By co-sponsoring this grant, Cartesian Creative recognise the contribution Free, Libre and Open Source projects make in the tech community, along with the importance of compelling user experiences." Linux Australia President, Kathy Reid, was delighted with the partnership. "User experience is an often undervalued component of software, hardware and digital projects, and time and again in the open source community we see products which are very functional, but barely usable. We're thrilled to be partnering with a company with such strong UX credentials to help improve open source UX. Innovation truly does happen at the intersection of art and science." More information on the Grants Program, including how to apply, is available at: https://linux.org.au/projects/grants Cartesian Creative is a Melbourne-based consultancy: http://cartesiancreative.com.au With kind regards, Kathy Reid -- Kathy Reid President Linux Australia 0418 130 636 president at linux.org.au http://linux.org.au Linux Australia Inc GPO Box 4788 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia ABN 56 987 117 479 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From president at linux.org.au Mon Mar 20 11:39:32 2017 From: president at linux.org.au (Linux Australia President) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 11:39:32 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] March update from Council Message-ID: Hi everyone, Hope this note finds you all well, and that those who are starting a University year are enjoying it, and those of you with young ones at school have had a smooth start to the year. Can you believe Easter is almost upon us?! This email is a quick update to keep you informed of Linux Australia activities - and as always, questions, comments and feedback are warmly welcomed. DrupalGov Canberra Is on 27th March, and there have been record ticket sales. Huge kudos to Si Hobbs, Rosie Gooch, and Chris Skene for all their efforts. Tix at http://drupalgov.org/events/drupalgov-canberra-2017. WordCamps We have progressed discussions with WordCamp.org - in essence we will be partnering with them to help facilitate WordPress-based events - WordCamps, WordPress-based Meetups and the like - in Australia. We still have some details to work through, but both WordCamp.org and LA are looking forward to making it easier for people to run WordPress-based events in Australia. Linux Australia Grants Program Thank you to all community members who have provided feedback in response to Grant Applications; Council serves at the behest of the community - and your feedback is vital in ensuring we do your bidding. Council have been in discussion with around 6-8 parties who are in the formulation stage of Grant Applications, and the community should expect more Grant Applications to start coming through. At the time of writing, we have declined 1 Grant Application, and approved 0 Applications, with a remaining $35k pool left. We're delighted to be partnering with Melbourne based design agency, Cartesian Creative, who are co-sponsoring up to $AUD 4k in Grants for UX-related opensource Grant Applications. So, if there's an open source product you want to love, but can't, because its UX sucks, now's the opportunity to do something about it. A huge thanks to Duncan Macneil of Cartesian Creative for his support. You might remember Duncan provided a little song for us during LCA2016 Geelong lighting talks. Linux Australia now has a Facebook page While some of this audience may not use Facebook, we're finding it's increasingly useful in promoting events and advocating key messages. You can follow LA on Facebook at - https://www.facebook.com/LinuxAustralia/ Meeting with Internet Australia, Electronic Frontiers Australia and Linux Australia We feel that there are potential areas of overlap and collaboration for IA, EFA and LA, and the three organisations will be meeting this Friday to discuss opportunities where we can partner for greater impact. Stay tuned - as always we'll keep you updated on outcomes. Assessing insurance coverage One of the services LA provides to events who choose to operate under LA's auspices is a range of insurance cover. Hugh Blemings has taken the lead on re-evaluating our insurance needs, and I'd like to publicly thank him for his efforts here. GovHack 2017 - 28 to 30 July 2017 Although GovHack this year transitions from an LA event to an independent organisation, we'd like to give them a bit of a shout out! GovHack 2017 will be run 28 to 30 July - see govhack.org for more details or to register your interest in volunteering. Maturing financial oversight for Subcommittees On a more personal note, I'd like to extend my sincere thanks to Russell Stuart - whom HUMBUG members will know. In his role as Treasurer on Council, Russell has recently undertaken a huge amount of work in maturing some of our financial procedures regarding Subcommittees, in addition to arranging the transfer of banking account access after Council elections. This detail administrative work is often under-valued - and it shouldn't be. Much of our successes are often due to lots of behind-the-scenes work by very diligent people. Thank you, Russell. With kind regards, Kathy -- Kathy Reid President Linux Australia 0418 130 636 president at linux.org.au http://linux.org.au Linux Australia Inc GPO Box 4788 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia ABN 56 987 117 479 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From president at linux.org.au Mon Mar 20 15:10:39 2017 From: president at linux.org.au (Linux Australia President) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 15:10:39 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant request approved for SunLUG for domain hosting Message-ID: Hi everyone, A courtesy note that Council has approved a low-cost Grant Application to Sunraysia LUG - SunLUG - for domain hosting. MOTION by Kathy that LA provide a grant to SunLUG for domain hosting of up to $AUD 50 per year Given the low cost of this grant request, we evaluated it as a 'no-brainer' and have foregone community consultation. In this case the offer of LA doing the domain hosting on our infrastructure was extended, but for now SunLUG would like to look after their own domain hosting. Kind regards, Kathy -- Kathy Reid President Linux Australia 0418 130 636 president at linux.org.au http://linux.org.au Linux Australia Inc GPO Box 4788 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia ABN 56 987 117 479 From russell at coker.com.au Mon Mar 20 15:34:09 2017 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 15:34:09 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant request approved for SunLUG for domain hosting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <17531030.raov85FoTf@russell.coker.com.au> On Monday, 20 March 2017 3:10:39 PM AEDT Linux Australia President wrote: > A courtesy note that Council has approved a low-cost Grant Application > to Sunraysia LUG - SunLUG - for domain hosting. How many Linux users are there in that area? Should we have some sort of mini-conf there as we have done for Ballarat and other regional areas? -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From trish at thefrasers.org Mon Mar 20 16:14:46 2017 From: trish at thefrasers.org (Trish Fraser) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 16:14:46 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant request approved for SunLUG for domain hosting In-Reply-To: <17531030.raov85FoTf@russell.coker.com.au> References: <17531030.raov85FoTf@russell.coker.com.au> Message-ID: <20170320161446.34d8fe1b@cassiopeia> > On Monday, 20 March 2017 3:10:39 PM AEDT Linux Australia President > wrote: > > A courtesy note that Council has approved a low-cost Grant > > Application to Sunraysia LUG - SunLUG - for domain hosting. > > How many Linux users are there in that area? > > Should we have some sort of mini-conf there as we have done for > Ballarat and other regional areas? Yes please... -- Trish Fraser, VVMZ4 91L2V -35.67910, 142.66607 Mon Mar 20 16:14:31 AEDT 2017 GNU/Linux 1997-2013 #283226 counter.li.org cassiopeia up up 5 weeks, 6 days, 25 minutes Mageia release 5 (Official) for x86_64 kernel 4.4.39-desktop-1.mga5 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 473 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From president at linux.org.au Mon Mar 20 16:56:05 2017 From: president at linux.org.au (Linux Australia President) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 16:56:05 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant request approved for SunLUG for domain hosting In-Reply-To: <17531030.raov85FoTf@russell.coker.com.au> References: <17531030.raov85FoTf@russell.coker.com.au> Message-ID: It may be worth contacting Phil (CC'd) - to identify whether it's worth pursuing a Linux Users Vic event there. Regards, Kathy On 20/03/17 15:34, Russell Coker wrote: > On Monday, 20 March 2017 3:10:39 PM AEDT Linux Australia President wrote: >> A courtesy note that Council has approved a low-cost Grant Application >> to Sunraysia LUG - SunLUG - for domain hosting. > How many Linux users are there in that area? > > Should we have some sort of mini-conf there as we have done for Ballarat and > other regional areas? > -- Kathy Reid President Linux Australia 0418 130 636 president at linux.org.au http://linux.org.au Linux Australia Inc GPO Box 4788 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia ABN 56 987 117 479 From tleeuwenburg at gmail.com Mon Mar 20 22:46:22 2017 From: tleeuwenburg at gmail.com (Tennessee Leeuwenburg) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 22:46:22 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] PyCon AU 2017 is calling for proposals! Message-ID: Welcome all -- coders, tinkerers, contributors, presenters, thinkers, teachers and artists... our call for proposals is finally here! In just a few more months, PyCon AU will be in full swing. We have developed both our community engagement and technical depth year on year, consolidating in people?s hearts and minds the value of coming along to this fantastic event. Those who have presented or attended before can attest to the high calibre of our speakers, the quality of our technical content, and also the welcoming and inclusive approach to new speakers and people from a broad variety of backgrounds. Please visit https://2017.pycon-au.org/program/cfp/ for more details on how to submit a proposal for PyCon AU 2017. Regardless of whether you are intending to submit a proposal, please help us spread the word on twitter, Facebook and email, by sharing a link to this page, along with the hashtag #pyconau. Finally, although the website gnomes and bugfinding goblins have been working hard to achieve a smooth user experience, Murphy is as harsh lawmaker, and it?s possible you might need to contact us with questions or raise issues. Please email program at pycon-au.org should you need to reach us. Thanks, Tennessee Leeuwenburg, Program Chair, PyCon AU 2017 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From russell at coker.com.au Thu Mar 23 03:52:05 2017 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2017 03:52:05 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant request approved for SunLUG for domain hosting In-Reply-To: <20170320161446.34d8fe1b@cassiopeia> References: <17531030.raov85FoTf@russell.coker.com.au> <20170320161446.34d8fe1b@cassiopeia> Message-ID: <2360802.PsShRS4LGR@russell.coker.com.au> On Monday, 20 March 2017 4:14:46 PM AEDT Trish Fraser wrote: > > How many Linux users are there in that area? > > Should we have some sort of mini-conf there as we have done for > > Ballarat and other regional areas? > > Yes please... To do this we need to know how many people are likely to attend and we need to apply for a Linux Australia grant to run it. It appears that they aren't getting many viable requests for grants so if there are enough people likely to attend then I think we will probably get a grant. https://ptv-prod-timetables.s3.amazonaws.com/timetables/01V35/all/ttpdf-vic-I-ttb-TIMINGPOINTS-01V35--1490120127/timetable.pdf To get to Mildura from Melbourne means 8 hours travel by public transport according to the above URL. According to Google Maps it's just under 6 hours drive. Due to the travel time speakers travelling from Melbourne will need at least 1 night's accommodation and maybe 2 in Mildura. If we have 5 speakers then that's 5/10 nights accommodation and travel expenses for 5 people. If we go for 2 nights accommodation then that means either arriving just after midnight on a Friday night (and maybe making special arrangements with a hotel) or doing it on a long weekend. 1 night accommodation means getting home at midnight or later and not having dinner with Mildura people. The tradition with such events has been to have a BBQ. So we will also apply for the grant to cover heaps of sausages and bread, plenty of sauce, and maybe some onions. I drive a Kia Carnival which can fit 8 people with a squeeze for those in the back row, 6 people in great comfort, and 7 people with moderate comfort for those in the middle row. I have an inverter that allows powering one full- sized laptop while driving and sockets that allow powering another 2 if people have inverters they can bring (some laptops last 8 hours on battery and we can charge at bars/cafes while on breaks) so every laptop should run for the whole trip. My phone plan has more data than I can use so I can provide wifi to everyone within reason (no youtube). We could get some good coding done on the way - or just party. ;) I'm happy to have my car used for transporting speakers if the grant covers petrol (which is probably cheaper than 5+ seats on a coach + train) a meal for the people driving (which absolutely won't be me both ways), and something like $20 for drinks and snacks each way. A Kia Carnival full of speakers is enough to provide 8 hours of lectures. Also Mildura is only a little over 4 hours drive from Adelaide, maybe we can get some people from Adelaide to speak too. Finally I haven't polled other people from Melbourne about whether they are interested in going to Mildura. But if Linux Australia pays for my expenses I'm happy to go even if no-one else does. I can speak about SE Linux, general Linux security, hard drive benchmarking, running ISPs, BTRFS, and ZFS among other things. I'd still like a BBQ though. ;) -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From Phil at SunLUG Thu Mar 23 08:47:38 2017 From: Phil at SunLUG (Phil at SunLUG) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2017 08:47:38 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant request approved for SunLUG for domain hosting In-Reply-To: <20170320161446.34d8fe1b@cassiopeia> References: <17531030.raov85FoTf@russell.coker.com.au> <20170320161446.34d8fe1b@cassiopeia> Message-ID: ** Sorry bout the offlist post Trish :/ ** Hi, I'm Phil and with my mate Steve we are Sunlug, As there is only 2 of us atm it would be a very mini conf. I love the idea but maybe give us a couple of weeks or so to find our feet and hopefully a couple of others . . . Gee I'm thrilled by the enthusiasm :) Cheers From Sunny Mildura Phil. On 20/03/2017 4:14 PM, Trish Fraser wrote: > >> On Monday, 20 March 2017 3:10:39 PM AEDT Linux Australia President >> wrote: >>> A courtesy note that Council has approved a low-cost Grant >>> Application to Sunraysia LUG - SunLUG - for domain hosting. >> How many Linux users are there in that area? >> >> Should we have some sort of mini-conf there as we have done for >> Ballarat and other regional areas? > Yes please... > > > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at sericyb.com.au Thu Mar 23 10:51:39 2017 From: andrew at sericyb.com.au (Andrew Pam) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2017 10:51:39 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant request approved for SunLUG for domain hosting In-Reply-To: <2360802.PsShRS4LGR@russell.coker.com.au> References: <17531030.raov85FoTf@russell.coker.com.au> <20170320161446.34d8fe1b@cassiopeia> <2360802.PsShRS4LGR@russell.coker.com.au> Message-ID: <366471f8-c96f-e55a-5be7-57df87af02eb@sericyb.com.au> On 23/03/17 03:52, Russell Coker wrote: > Also Mildura is only a little over 4 hours drive from Adelaide, maybe > we can > get some people from Adelaide to speak too. Great idea, I'm still on the linuxsa mailing list so I'll ask. > Finally I haven't polled other people from Melbourne about whether they are > interested in going to Mildura. If we provide IT education for the general public and especially underskilled groups such as minorities and seniors it could be part of my employer's Digital Inclusion work, which could open up additional possibilities for sponsorship and maybe speakers. Cheers, Andrew From russell at coker.com.au Thu Mar 23 19:25:18 2017 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2017 19:25:18 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant request approved for SunLUG for domain hosting In-Reply-To: References: <20170320161446.34d8fe1b@cassiopeia> Message-ID: <6539106.P57ObPE8Fc@russell.coker.com.au> On Thursday, 23 March 2017 8:47:38 AM AEDT Phil at SunLUG, admin at sunlug.com.au wrote: > Hi, I'm Phil and with my mate Steve we are Sunlug, > > As there is only 2 of us atm it would be a very mini conf. > > I love the idea but maybe give us a couple of weeks or so to find our > feet and hopefully a couple of others . . . > > Gee I'm thrilled by the enthusiasm :) In the past regional LUGs have been kicked off with events like this. Sure it will take a little time to get enough interest, but it takes some time to organise this sort of thing. Are your local librarians into computers? Librarians can be really helpful in arranging such things. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From Phil at SunLUG Thu Mar 23 20:39:18 2017 From: Phil at SunLUG (Phil at SunLUG) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2017 20:39:18 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant request approved for SunLUG for domain hosting In-Reply-To: <6539106.P57ObPE8Fc@russell.coker.com.au> References: <20170320161446.34d8fe1b@cassiopeia> <6539106.P57ObPE8Fc@russell.coker.com.au> Message-ID: On 23/03/2017 7:25 PM, Russell Coker wrote: > On Thursday, 23 March 2017 8:47:38 AM AEDT Phil at SunLUG, admin at sunlug.com.au > wrote: >> Hi, I'm Phil and with my mate Steve we are Sunlug, >> >> As there is only 2 of us atm it would be a very mini conf. >> >> I love the idea but maybe give us a couple of weeks or so to find our >> feet and hopefully a couple of others . . . >> >> Gee I'm thrilled by the enthusiasm :) > In the past regional LUGs have been kicked off with events like this. Sure it > will take a little time to get enough interest, but it takes some time to > organise this sort of thing. > > Are your local librarians into computers? Librarians can be really helpful in > arranging such things. > I'll find out, the thought never crossed my mind . . . Cheers From Sunny Mildura Phil. From russell at coker.com.au Fri Mar 24 01:10:45 2017 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 01:10:45 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant request approved for SunLUG for domain hosting In-Reply-To: References: <20170320161446.34d8fe1b@cassiopeia> Message-ID: <4532610.frUrIKso4C@russell.coker.com.au> On Thursday, 23 March 2017 8:47:38 AM AEDT Phil at SunLUG, admin at sunlug.com.au wrote: > Hi, I'm Phil and with my mate Steve we are Sunlug, > > As there is only 2 of us atm it would be a very mini conf. It might be good for you to attend a LUV beginners' SIG meeting which is on a Saturday so you don't need to miss work. You could see what we do and we could discuss ideas for setting up a LUG in your region. If this interests you then you might ask for a grant to cover travel and accommodation costs. I don't know if the grants process covers travelling for research about LUG development, but there's no harm in asking. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From admin at sunlug.com.au Fri Mar 24 07:07:10 2017 From: admin at sunlug.com.au (Phil "@" SunLUG) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 07:07:10 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant request approved for SunLUG for domain hosting In-Reply-To: <4532610.frUrIKso4C@russell.coker.com.au> References: <20170320161446.34d8fe1b@cassiopeia> <4532610.frUrIKso4C@russell.coker.com.au> Message-ID: On 24/03/2017 1:10 AM, Russell Coker wrote: > It might be good for you to attend a LUV beginners' SIG meeting Sounds good, what is it? And is there a link for more information . . . :) -- Cheers From Sunny Mildura Phil. From kathy at kathyreid.id.au Fri Mar 24 10:04:36 2017 From: kathy at kathyreid.id.au (Kathy Reid) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 10:04:36 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application - A grant to Moe Menshed (about to start) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi everyone, I'm forwarding this Grant Application on behalf of Robert Palmer (CC'd) - feedback on this Grant Application from the community is now open for two weeks. Kind regards, Kathy -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: [LACTTE] A grant to Moe Menshed (about to start) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 11:08:20 +1100 From: Robert Palmer To: council at linux.org.au Dear Linux Council, Moe Menshed is just starting up. I was a member of the Menshed in Wagga Wagga but was hit by a car when riding a bicycle, I was knocked unconscious for a week and broke my right leg. I was flown to Sydney and then to Melbourne. I came to Moe because I have some familly in the area. I have met someone who is part of an attempt to start a Menshed in Moe. His name is Collin Wootton, tel 03 5127 3693. I understand that they have a building chosen but not much installed. In Wagga Wagga the Menshed had a very extensive building with much very expensive fitting and turning machinery that was very competently run by a group of old men. They also had a computer room which had more users than the workshop. I would like the Moe Menshed to start up with a computer room. For that to happen we need a few computer experts preferably, I hope with enthusiasm for and knowledge of Linux as well as Windows. I have met a young bloke in Moe whose knowledge of Linux is much greater than mine. his name is Luke and he teaches mostly bored housewives in a few classes. I am surprised to find someone in Moe with more knowledge of Linux than I have. He also is much better, than I am, at getting information from the Internet and has a good knowledge of modern computers which I for one, lack badly. He teaches in Moe Neighbourhood House in Elizabeth st. If he was in the Menshed when it is starting up and answering questions, it would be a good thing. Many people have older computers which will not run Windows 10 but will run Linux, eg Mint, Mate or Ubuntu. Rather than spend about $1000 on a new computer they would do better to install Linux. He would be able to tell them how to do this. The computer room would need a Router (Modem) with connections for at least four computers and a telephone for the Menshed administration. I don't know what is being done about this. Collin Wootton 03 5127 3693 should be able to tell you this. I do not know what teachers are payed but I would think that if he got $100 for two hour lessons for about ten weeks, it would be very helpful. Yours Robert Palmer at rpalmer47 at gmail.com -- Robert Palmer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ committee mailing list committee at lists.linux.org.au http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/committee From noel.butler at ausics.net Fri Mar 24 14:27:22 2017 From: noel.butler at ausics.net (Noel Butler) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 13:27:22 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application - A grant to Moe Menshed (about to start) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <506aaebf6c26c34b78ddb957e8cce1bd@ausics.net> Has this Luke been approached to donate his time? I gather the request is for a grant to pay him, your pretty much saying 50 dollars an hour, that seems excessive given the Men's Shed's operation which usually has all mentors/experts donate their time, so I at least, have reservations. If the grant request was however for the computer room "equipment" that could not be found through donations (talked to Harvey Norman?) like modem/router/switches, cabling, I do fully support that type of request. On 24/03/2017 09:04, Kathy Reid wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I'm forwarding this Grant Application on behalf of Robert Palmer (CC'd) - feedback on this Grant Application from the community is now open for two weeks. > > Kind regards, > > Kathy > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > > SUBJECT: > [LACTTE] A grant to Moe Menshed (about to start) > > DATE: > Fri, 17 Mar 2017 11:08:20 +1100 > > FROM: > Robert Palmer > > TO: > council at linux.org.au > > Dear Linux Council, > Moe Menshed is just starting up. I was a member of the Menshed in Wagga Wagga but was hit by a car when riding a bicycle, I was knocked unconscious for a week and broke my right leg. I was flown to Sydney and then to Melbourne. I came to Moe because I have some familly in the area. > I have met someone who is part of an attempt to start a Menshed in Moe. > His name is Collin Wootton, tel 03 5127 3693. I understand that they have a building chosen but not much installed. In Wagga Wagga the Menshed had a very extensive building with much very expensive fitting and turning machinery that was very competently run by a group of old men. They also had a computer room which had more users than the workshop. I would like the Moe Menshed to start up with a computer room. For that to happen we need a few computer experts preferably, I hope with enthusiasm for and knowledge of Linux as well as Windows. > I have met a young bloke in Moe whose knowledge of Linux is much greater than mine. his name is Luke and he teaches mostly bored housewives in a few classes. I am surprised to find someone in Moe with more knowledge of Linux than I have. He also is much better, than I am, at getting information from the Internet and has a good knowledge of modern computers which I for one, lack badly. He teaches in Moe Neighbourhood House in Elizabeth st. > If he was in the Menshed when it is starting up and answering questions, it would be a good thing. Many people have older computers which will not run Windows 10 but will run Linux, eg Mint, Mate or Ubuntu. Rather than spend about $1000 on a new computer they would do better to install Linux. He would be able to tell them how to do this. > The computer room would need a Router (Modem) with connections for at least four computers and a telephone for the Menshed administration. I don't know what is being done about this. Collin Wootton 03 5127 3693 should be able to tell you this. > I do not know what teachers are payed but I would think that if he got $100 for two hour lessons for about ten weeks, it would be very helpful. > Yours Robert Palmer at rpalmer47 at gmail.com > > -- > Robert Palmer > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus -- Kind Regards, Noel Butler This Email, including any attachments, may contain legally privileged information, therefore remains confidential and subject to copyright protected under international law. You may not disseminate, discuss, or reveal, any part, to anyone, without the authors express written authority to do so. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender then delete all copies of this message including attachments, immediately. Confidentiality, copyright, and legal privilege are not waived or lost by reason of the mistaken delivery of this message. Only PDF [1] and ODF [2] documents accepted, please do not send proprietary formatted documents Links: ------ [1] http://www.adobe.com/ [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 473 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From russell at coker.com.au Fri Mar 24 14:32:47 2017 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 14:32:47 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application - A grant to Moe Menshed (about to start) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2814825.a2cUjXfA5k@russell.coker.com.au> On Friday, 24 March 2017 10:04:36 AM AEDT Kathy Reid wrote: > I'm forwarding this Grant Application on behalf of Robert Palmer (CC'd) > - feedback on this Grant Application from the community is now open for > two weeks. I'm opposed to funding a menshed. https://www.doubleunion.org/ If there is a hackerspace that is open to people of all genders then I think that we should consider giving a grant. If there was an Australian hackerspace like Double Union I think it would be reasonable to consider giving a grant due to women being significantly under-represented and disadvantaged in related areas. If an Australian hackerspace has an event for trans people (as some hackerspaces in other regions have done) then I think it would be reasonable to consider a grant to support that. But I don't think that sponsoring a male-only space for working in a traditionally male- dominated field is an appropriate use of LA funds. Also I think that funding for hackerspaces generally should not involve paying salaries, it should be restricted to covering expenses. I would however support paying a salary to someone who has problems getting other work. If a plan was to hire someone who was out of work due to disability then that is something we could consider sponsoring. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From russell at coker.com.au Fri Mar 24 14:40:00 2017 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 14:40:00 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application - A grant to Moe Menshed (about to start) In-Reply-To: <506aaebf6c26c34b78ddb957e8cce1bd@ausics.net> References: <506aaebf6c26c34b78ddb957e8cce1bd@ausics.net> Message-ID: <1539308.zxjztiLa3v@russell.coker.com.au> On Friday, 24 March 2017 1:27:22 PM AEDT Noel Butler wrote: > I gather the request is for a grant to pay him, your pretty much saying > 50 dollars an hour, that seems excessive given the Men's Shed's > operation which usually has all mentors/experts donate their time, so I > at least, have reservations. > > If the grant request was however for the computer room "equipment" that > could not be found through donations (talked to Harvey Norman?) like > modem/router/switches, cabling, I do fully support that type of request. Equipment is a better use of funds than a salary, but I wouldn't support even that as an LA issue. However I support getting people in Victoria to donate old hardware. I would be happy to donate some switches, PCs, and other stuff from both my own personal stockpile and the LUV hardware library if needed. I could arrange collecting a heap of computer gear for someone to make a single trip to Moe to deliver it. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From noel.butler at ausics.net Fri Mar 24 14:42:01 2017 From: noel.butler at ausics.net (Noel Butler) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 13:42:01 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application - A grant to Moe Menshed (about to start) In-Reply-To: <2814825.a2cUjXfA5k@russell.coker.com.au> References: <2814825.a2cUjXfA5k@russell.coker.com.au> Message-ID: On 24/03/2017 13:32, Russell Coker wrote: > that sponsoring a male-only space for working in a traditionally male- > dominated field is an appropriate use of LA funds. It was only a couple of years ago we approved a grant to an "American" Women's only organisation, Mary someone or other IIRC, so the precedence of issuing grants to targeted gender audiences has already been set. I warned back then that it was a dangerous precedent, interesting to see if those who issued vile statements to me off-list, and those with slightly tamer on-list comments, support this one :) > Also I think that funding for hackerspaces generally should not involve paying > salaries, Agreed -- Kind Regards, Noel Butler This Email, including any attachments, may contain legally privileged information, therefore remains confidential and subject to copyright protected under international law. You may not disseminate, discuss, or reveal, any part, to anyone, without the authors express written authority to do so. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender then delete all copies of this message including attachments, immediately. Confidentiality, copyright, and legal privilege are not waived or lost by reason of the mistaken delivery of this message. Only PDF [1] and ODF [2] documents accepted, please do not send proprietary formatted documents Links: ------ [1] http://www.adobe.com/ [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 473 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From russell at coker.com.au Fri Mar 24 14:48:05 2017 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 14:48:05 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application - A grant to Moe Menshed (about to start) In-Reply-To: References: <2814825.a2cUjXfA5k@russell.coker.com.au> Message-ID: <12850538.g4ZkE760pS@russell.coker.com.au> On Friday, 24 March 2017 1:42:01 PM AEDT Noel Butler wrote: > On 24/03/2017 13:32, Russell Coker wrote: > > that sponsoring a male-only space for working in a traditionally male- > > dominated field is an appropriate use of LA funds. > > It was only a couple of years ago we approved a grant to an "American" > Women's only organisation, Mary someone or other IIRC, so the precedence > of issuing grants to targeted gender audiences has already been set. You quoted 2 lines and managed to not read them before replying? -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From russell at coker.com.au Fri Mar 24 14:50:13 2017 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 14:50:13 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant request approved for SunLUG for domain hosting In-Reply-To: References: <4532610.frUrIKso4C@russell.coker.com.au> Message-ID: <1891770.VYDy7Yoc5G@russell.coker.com.au> On Friday, 24 March 2017 7:07:10 AM AEDT Phil "@" SunLUG wrote: > On 24/03/2017 1:10 AM, Russell Coker wrote: > > It might be good for you to attend a LUV beginners' SIG meeting > > Sounds good, what is it? And is there a link for more information . . . :) https://luv.asn.au/ All LUV meetings are advertised at the above URL. The Beginners' meeting has 90 minutes of hanging out, fixing random problems, and socialising before the lecture or tutorial starts. People often bring PCs in to have someone help fix them. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From noel.butler at ausics.net Fri Mar 24 15:00:07 2017 From: noel.butler at ausics.net (Noel Butler) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 14:00:07 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application - A grant to Moe Menshed (about to start) In-Reply-To: <12850538.g4ZkE760pS@russell.coker.com.au> References: <2814825.a2cUjXfA5k@russell.coker.com.au> <12850538.g4ZkE760pS@russell.coker.com.au> Message-ID: On 24/03/2017 13:48, Russell Coker wrote: > On Friday, 24 March 2017 1:42:01 PM AEDT Noel Butler wrote: On 24/03/2017 13:32, Russell Coker wrote: that sponsoring a male-only space for working in a traditionally male- > dominated field is an appropriate use of LA funds. > It was only a couple of years ago we approved a grant to an "American" > Women's only organisation, Mary someone or other IIRC, so the precedence > of issuing grants to targeted gender audiences has already been set. You quoted 2 lines and managed to not read them before replying? I read them. As one who is, and has to be on top of discrimination laws, I apply those same tests when dealing with things like this as well, because I know the legal shitstorm that can arise from doing otherwise. LA has opened the door to playing gender favorites, so has to live with its past decisions. -- Kind Regards, Noel Butler This Email, including any attachments, may contain legally privileged information, therefore remains confidential and subject to copyright protected under international law. You may not disseminate, discuss, or reveal, any part, to anyone, without the authors express written authority to do so. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender then delete all copies of this message including attachments, immediately. Confidentiality, copyright, and legal privilege are not waived or lost by reason of the mistaken delivery of this message. Only PDF [1] and ODF [2] documents accepted, please do not send proprietary formatted documents Links: ------ [1] http://www.adobe.com/ [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 473 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From robyn at robynspcs.com Fri Mar 24 15:34:38 2017 From: robyn at robynspcs.com (Robyn Willison) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 15:04:38 +1030 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application - A grant to Moe Menshed (about to start) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4a2bd177-83a1-bff1-32f9-fb0505936661@robynspcs.com> Hi everyone In Adelaide mensheds are open to all. Menshed is just a name. The equipment could come from ITShare SA Inc. www.itshare.org.au or their equivalent Computerbank Vic and they'd just need help with transporting the gear (part of a grant funding). I volunteer regularly with ITShare so know it would happen. Sheds are a fantastic idea and they could build towards becoming a hackerspace/makerspace. Some people can't work for nothing, so asking people to pay $5-$10 each per session for computer classes isn't too much. I recommend funding it but in different ways to what they are asking. I am willing to work with Robert to get this arranged. Regards Robyn Willison On 24/03/2017 9:34 AM, Kathy Reid wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > I'm forwarding this Grant Application on behalf of Robert Palmer > (CC'd) - feedback on this Grant Application from the community is now > open for two weeks. > > Kind regards, > > Kathy > > > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > Subject: [LACTTE] A grant to Moe Menshed (about to start) > Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 11:08:20 +1100 > From: Robert Palmer > To: council at linux.org.au > > > > Dear Linux Council, > Moe Menshed is just starting up. I was a member of the Menshed in > Wagga Wagga but was hit by a car when riding a bicycle, I was knocked > unconscious for a week and broke my right leg. I was flown to Sydney > and then to Melbourne. I came to Moe because I have some familly in > the area. > I have met someone who is part of an attempt to start a Menshed in Moe. > His name is Collin Wootton, tel 03 5127 3693. I understand that > they have a building chosen but not much installed. In Wagga Wagga > the Menshed had a very extensive building with much very expensive > fitting and turning machinery that was very competently run by a group > of old men. They also had a computer room which had more users than > the workshop. I would like the Moe Menshed to start up with a > computer room. For that to happen we need a few computer experts > preferably, I hope with enthusiasm for and knowledge of Linux as well > as Windows. > I have met a young bloke in Moe whose knowledge of Linux is much > greater than mine. his name is Luke and he teaches mostly bored > housewives in a few classes. I am surprised to find someone in Moe > with more knowledge of Linux than I have. He also is much better, > than I am, at getting information from the Internet and has a good > knowledge of modern computers which I for one, lack badly. He teaches > in Moe Neighbourhood House in Elizabeth st. > If he was in the Menshed when it is starting up and answering > questions, it would be a good thing. Many people have older computers > which will not run Windows 10 but will run Linux, eg Mint, Mate or > Ubuntu. Rather than spend about $1000 on a new computer they would do > better to install Linux. He would be able to tell them how to do this. > The computer room would need a Router (Modem) with connections for > at least four computers and a telephone for the Menshed > administration. I don't know what is being done about this. Collin > Wootton 03 5127 3693 should be able to tell you this. > I do not know what teachers are payed but I would think that if he > got $100 for two hour lessons for about ten weeks, it would be very > helpful. > Yours Robert Palmer at rpalmer47 at gmail.com > > > > > -- > Robert Palmer > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From russell at coker.com.au Fri Mar 24 16:27:08 2017 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 16:27:08 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application - A grant to Moe Menshed (about to start) In-Reply-To: <4a2bd177-83a1-bff1-32f9-fb0505936661@robynspcs.com> References: <4a2bd177-83a1-bff1-32f9-fb0505936661@robynspcs.com> Message-ID: <3526135.zCyy1LDH2H@russell.coker.com.au> On Friday, 24 March 2017 3:04:38 PM AEDT Robyn Willison wrote: > In Adelaide mensheds are open to all. Menshed is just a name. Why call it a menshed then? Why not "personshed", "shed", "makerspace", "hackerspace", or something else? If they are set on the name "menshed" then it says a lot about how it's going to be run. > The equipment could come from ITShare SA Inc. www.itshare.org.au or > their equivalent Computerbank Vic and they'd just need help with > transporting the gear (part of a grant funding). I volunteer regularly > with ITShare so know it would happen. I don't think LA should grant funding for transporting the gear. > Sheds are a fantastic idea and they could build towards becoming a > hackerspace/makerspace. Why not just have a hackerspace/makerspace then? > Some people can't work for nothing, so asking people to pay $5-$10 each > per session for computer classes isn't too much. > > I recommend funding it but in different ways to what they are asking. I > am willing to work with Robert to get this arranged. I think it's fine if LA members want to work with him. But I oppose LA funding. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From kathy at kathyreid.id.au Fri Mar 24 16:36:01 2017 From: kathy at kathyreid.id.au (Kathy Reid) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 16:36:01 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application - A grant to Moe Menshed (about to start) In-Reply-To: <3526135.zCyy1LDH2H@russell.coker.com.au> References: <4a2bd177-83a1-bff1-32f9-fb0505936661@robynspcs.com> <3526135.zCyy1LDH2H@russell.coker.com.au> Message-ID: <44a05998-21d1-167e-0c9d-b8b303842d3f@kathyreid.id.au> Let's called it a BIKE-shed, because this is exactly what this is. Robyn, thank you enormously for your kind offer of assistance. I warmly welcome other community feedback on this Grant Application. With kind regards, Kathy On 24/03/17 16:27, Russell Coker wrote: > On Friday, 24 March 2017 3:04:38 PM AEDT Robyn Willison wrote: >> In Adelaide mensheds are open to all. Menshed is just a name. > Why call it a menshed then? Why not "personshed", "shed", "makerspace", > "hackerspace", or something else? If they are set on the name "menshed" then > it says a lot about how it's going to be run. > >> The equipment could come from ITShare SA Inc. www.itshare.org.au or >> their equivalent Computerbank Vic and they'd just need help with >> transporting the gear (part of a grant funding). I volunteer regularly >> with ITShare so know it would happen. > I don't think LA should grant funding for transporting the gear. > >> Sheds are a fantastic idea and they could build towards becoming a >> hackerspace/makerspace. > Why not just have a hackerspace/makerspace then? > >> Some people can't work for nothing, so asking people to pay $5-$10 each >> per session for computer classes isn't too much. >> >> I recommend funding it but in different ways to what they are asking. I >> am willing to work with Robert to get this arranged. > I think it's fine if LA members want to work with him. But I oppose LA > funding. > From paulway at mabula.net Sat Mar 25 08:10:18 2017 From: paulway at mabula.net (Paul Wayper) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 08:10:18 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application - A grant to Moe Menshed (about to start) In-Reply-To: <44a05998-21d1-167e-0c9d-b8b303842d3f@kathyreid.id.au> References: <4a2bd177-83a1-bff1-32f9-fb0505936661@robynspcs.com> <3526135.zCyy1LDH2H@russell.coker.com.au> <44a05998-21d1-167e-0c9d-b8b303842d3f@kathyreid.id.au> Message-ID: <12c8a755-0802-3d34-65d2-3c14200b2d9c@mabula.net> On 24/03/17 16:36, Kathy Reid wrote: > Let's called it a BIKE-shed, because this is exactly what this is. I disagree. I fully agree with Russell - if it's open to all people, call it a shed or a hackerspace or whatever. I would not like to see Linux Australia putting money toward something where women were excluded even just by the name - especially this shed is asking for help in getting computer resources. Likewise, I'd like to promote to this shed the use of Linux and Open Source Software. Is that something we can weave into this proposal? Have fun, Paul From noel.butler at ausics.net Sat Mar 25 18:04:47 2017 From: noel.butler at ausics.net (Noel Butler) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 17:04:47 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application - A grant to Moe Menshed (about to start) In-Reply-To: <12c8a755-0802-3d34-65d2-3c14200b2d9c@mabula.net> References: <4a2bd177-83a1-bff1-32f9-fb0505936661@robynspcs.com> <3526135.zCyy1LDH2H@russell.coker.com.au> <44a05998-21d1-167e-0c9d-b8b303842d3f@kathyreid.id.au> <12c8a755-0802-3d34-65d2-3c14200b2d9c@mabula.net> Message-ID: <481a537ef35a085cfa991d82535e62f7@ausics.net> On 25/03/2017 07:10, Paul Wayper wrote: > On 24/03/17 16:36, Kathy Reid wrote: > >> Let's called it a BIKE-shed, because this is exactly what this is. > > I disagree. I fully agree with Russell - if it's open to all people, call it > a shed or a hackerspace or whatever. I would not like to see Linux Australia-- Mens Shed is their Australia wide legal name, they are everywhere, I've helped out a couple local ones myself when they needed some telco work done, so your argument on what they call themselves is pointless, they also aren't just a bunch of old blokes, there's teenagers as young as 16 involved. > I would not like to see Linux Australia putting money toward something where women were excluded So you objected a few years back when LA gave to the womens only thingy? Dont recall your name saying as much. All forms of gender/sex discrimination is wrong, but when you do, you cant play favorites, all sides are to be treated and considered without the "gender only" consideration - unless you want to appear before the federal court to explain your actions if a rejection is challenged :) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 473 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From russell at coker.com.au Sat Mar 25 18:40:12 2017 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 18:40:12 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application - A grant to Moe Menshed (about to start) In-Reply-To: <481a537ef35a085cfa991d82535e62f7@ausics.net> References: <12c8a755-0802-3d34-65d2-3c14200b2d9c@mabula.net> <481a537ef35a085cfa991d82535e62f7@ausics.net> Message-ID: <2047371.MOPriS2tZL@russell.coker.com.au> Robert, we are having ongoing discussions about your application for a menshed grant. Robyn says that in Adelaide the mensheds don't exclude women. To clarify the issue please briefly explain what you are doing to make your menshed welcoming to women and non-binary people. On Saturday, 25 March 2017 5:04:47 PM AEDT Noel Butler wrote: > On 25/03/2017 07:10, Paul Wayper wrote: > > On 24/03/17 16:36, Kathy Reid wrote: > >> Let's called it a BIKE-shed, because this is exactly what this is. > > > > I disagree. I fully agree with Russell - if it's open to all people, call > > it a shed or a hackerspace or whatever. I would not like to see Linux > > Australia-- > Mens Shed is their Australia wide legal name, they are everywhere, I've > helped out a couple local ones myself when they needed some telco work > done, so your argument on what they call themselves is pointless, they > also aren't just a bunch of old blokes, there's teenagers as young as 16 > involved. > > > I would not like to see Linux Australia putting money toward something > > where women were excluded > So you objected a few years back when LA gave to the womens only thingy? > Dont recall your name saying as much. > > All forms of gender/sex discrimination is wrong, but when you do, you > cant play favorites, all sides are to be treated and considered without > the "gender only" consideration - unless you want to appear before the > federal court to explain your actions if a rejection is challenged :) https://linux.conf.au/attend/code-of-conduct/ The CoC used for LA events refers to "unwarranted exclusion from conference or related events based on age, gender, sexual orientation". So having a women- only event to address problems with the exclusion of women in many areas of technology is acceptable. But having a men-only technology event would be unwarranted. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From jamezpolley at gmail.com Sat Mar 25 19:37:38 2017 From: jamezpolley at gmail.com (James Polley) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 19:37:38 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application - A grant to Moe Menshed (about to start) In-Reply-To: <2047371.MOPriS2tZL@russell.coker.com.au> References: <12c8a755-0802-3d34-65d2-3c14200b2d9c@mabula.net> <481a537ef35a085cfa991d82535e62f7@ausics.net> <2047371.MOPriS2tZL@russell.coker.com.au> Message-ID: On Sat, Mar 25, 2017 at 6:40 PM, Russell Coker wrote: > Robert, we are having ongoing discussions about your application for a > menshed > grant. Robyn says that in Adelaide the mensheds don't exclude women. To > clarify the issue please briefly explain what you are doing to make your > menshed welcoming to women and non-binary people. > I don?t believe this request to Robert is warranted. The section of the CoC[0] Russell quoted refers to ?unwarranted exclusion from a conference or related events?. Firstly: this is not a conference, nor a related event, so I?m not sure why this would apply. Secondly: assuming that it does apply, the wording still refers to ?unwarranted exclusion?. Robert has been asked to defend the ?exclusion? part, but the ?unwarranted? part seems to have been ignored. Beyond Blue commissioned a detailed study[2] on Mens Sheds in 2013 and found that they ?are in an important position to be able to impact priority health group?; and that ?Shed membership positively impacts on the experience of mental health and well-being.? So: this is not a conference, nor a related event. Rather than exclusion, there is a focus particular priority health group, and that focus seems to have been shown to be warranted. The Code of Conduct also asks all Linux Australia members to adopt the principles in LA Statement of Values[3], which says in part: ?We value the creation, support and maintenance of community around open technologies.? To me this request seems like it could certainly lead to the ?creation ? of community around open technologies?. I?d like to see some more thought given to how that community could be supported and maintained; but given the small size of the grant request (and the lack of competition for the funds) I?m personally happy to see that answered after the community has been created. I think the original grant request here is suboptimal - I would prefer to see us working together with ITShare or ComputerBank on a coordinated approach, where perhaps we provide funding, they provide hardware, and the Mens Shed provides a venue and training. I don?t know precisely what Robyn had in mind, but I commend her for stepping up and offering to work on a more effective way for the funding to be used. In summary: I read this as a request to lend support to a proven non-exclusionary intervention targeting a priority health group, which has the potential to support the creation of a community around open technologies. Given the size of the request and the lack of competition, I support the grant - especially if Robyn or other volunteers are able to work on ways to make the funding more effective and to make it more likely that such a community is created. [0] The CoC quoted here was actually specific to LCA2017 and definitely not relevant here; but it?s based on the actual LA code of conduct[1], which does contain the same language. [1] https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/blob/master/code_of_conduct.md [2] https://www.beyondblue.org.au/docs/default-source/research-project-files/bw0208.pdf?sfvrsn=2 [3] https://linux.org.au/values > On Saturday, 25 March 2017 5:04:47 PM AEDT Noel Butler wrote: > > On 25/03/2017 07:10, Paul Wayper wrote: > > > On 24/03/17 16:36, Kathy Reid wrote: > > >> Let's called it a BIKE-shed, because this is exactly what this is. > > > > > > I disagree. I fully agree with Russell - if it's open to all people, > call > > > it a shed or a hackerspace or whatever. I would not like to see Linux > > > Australia-- > > Mens Shed is their Australia wide legal name, they are everywhere, I've > > helped out a couple local ones myself when they needed some telco work > > done, so your argument on what they call themselves is pointless, they > > also aren't just a bunch of old blokes, there's teenagers as young as 16 > > involved. > > > > > I would not like to see Linux Australia putting money toward something > > > where women were excluded > > So you objected a few years back when LA gave to the womens only thingy? > > Dont recall your name saying as much. > > > > All forms of gender/sex discrimination is wrong, but when you do, you > > cant play favorites, all sides are to be treated and considered without > > the "gender only" consideration - unless you want to appear before the > > federal court to explain your actions if a rejection is challenged :) > > https://linux.conf.au/attend/code-of-conduct/ > > The CoC used for LA events refers to "unwarranted exclusion from > conference or > related events based on age, gender, sexual orientation". So having a > women- > only event to address problems with the exclusion of women in many areas of > technology is acceptable. But having a men-only technology event would be > unwarranted. > > -- > My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ > My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From russell at coker.com.au Sat Mar 25 20:41:07 2017 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 20:41:07 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application - A grant to Moe Menshed (about to start) In-Reply-To: References: <2047371.MOPriS2tZL@russell.coker.com.au> Message-ID: <4348180.CfaXf4OK6d@russell.coker.com.au> On Saturday, 25 March 2017 7:37:38 PM AEDT James Polley wrote: > On Sat, Mar 25, 2017 at 6:40 PM, Russell Coker wrote: > > Robert, we are having ongoing discussions about your application for a > > menshed > > grant. Robyn says that in Adelaide the mensheds don't exclude women. To > > clarify the issue please briefly explain what you are doing to make your > > menshed welcoming to women and non-binary people. > > I don?t believe this request to Robert is warranted. Robyn made a claim that determines the suitability of the grant that isn't specific to the Moe Menshed. I think it's reasonable to discover whether the Moe Menshed is going to operate like the ones in Adelaide. > Secondly: assuming that it does apply, the wording still refers to > ?unwarranted exclusion?. Robert has been asked to defend the ?exclusion? > part, but the ?unwarranted? part seems to have been ignored. Beyond Blue > commissioned a detailed study[2] on Mens Sheds in 2013 and found that they > ?are in an important position to be able to impact priority health group?; > and that ?Shed membership positively impacts on the experience of mental > health and well-being.? That article raises some good points. But there's nothing in there that indicates a single-gender shed is required and there's no comparison done with makerspaces, hackerspaces, or other non-gender specific organisations. In terms of support for older men, makerspaces and hackerspaces appear to do well in that regard. In all my visits to such places in Australia the only time I recall seeing more than 1 woman in a hackerspace at the same time was the special visit to the Canberra space after an LCA. On most of the occasions I've visited hackerspaces there have been no women there for the entire duration of my visit. > So: this is not a conference, nor a related event. Rather than exclusion, > there is a focus particular priority health group, and that focus seems to > have been shown to be warranted. Where has it been shown that being gender specific is required? Have the Adelaide mensheds that allow women to enter been shown to be less effective than ones that are strictly men-only? If "menshed" is just a name as Robyn says then Robert can easily confirm this and we can move on. But we need facts to make a decision. We can't have a reasonable discussion about it when people are operating on significantly different interpretations of the meaning of the organisation. James, we need to know whether your interpretation or Robyn's interpretation is correct. Robert is the only one who can clarify this. > I think the original grant request here is suboptimal - I would prefer to > see us working together with ITShare or ComputerBank on a coordinated > approach, where perhaps we provide funding, they provide hardware, and the > Mens Shed provides a venue and training. I don?t know precisely what Robyn > had in mind, but I commend her for stepping up and offering to work on a > more effective way for the funding to be used. Of the reasons given for joining mens' sheds in the Beyond Blue article 2 of the top 4 are "to give back to the community" and "to share my knowledge and expertise". It seems that paying people to run training isn't going to help that and may actually diminish it. Consider Dunc Tank as a practical demonstration of this. > [0] The CoC quoted here was actually specific to LCA2017 and definitely not > relevant here; but it?s based on the actual LA code of conduct[1], which > does contain the same language. > [1] > https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/blob/master/code > _of_conduct.md [2] > https://www.beyondblue.org.au/docs/default-source/research-project-files/bw0 > 208.pdf?sfvrsn=2 [3] https://linux.org.au/values -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From jamesrpurser at gmail.com Sat Mar 25 21:16:49 2017 From: jamesrpurser at gmail.com (James Purser) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 10:16:49 +0000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application - A grant to Moe Menshed (about to start) In-Reply-To: <4348180.CfaXf4OK6d@russell.coker.com.au> References: <2047371.MOPriS2tZL@russell.coker.com.au> <4348180.CfaXf4OK6d@russell.coker.com.au> Message-ID: I'm more than happy for Linux Australia to find a grant for equipment if it's related to educating people in the use of FOSS and what FOSS is about. The discussion about whether a "men's shed" is a valid recipient? Absolutely. While their focus may be for men, they provide a vital connection for men over a certain age, who are statistically much more at risk of suicide and social isolation. This is a good thing. As to paying for training? Eh not so much but I'm sure something can be arranged in terms of volunteers. Yet another James On Sat., 25 Mar. 2017, 8:41 pm Russell Coker, wrote: > On Saturday, 25 March 2017 7:37:38 PM AEDT James Polley wrote: > > On Sat, Mar 25, 2017 at 6:40 PM, Russell Coker > wrote: > > > Robert, we are having ongoing discussions about your application for a > > > menshed > > > grant. Robyn says that in Adelaide the mensheds don't exclude women. > To > > > clarify the issue please briefly explain what you are doing to make > your > > > menshed welcoming to women and non-binary people. > > > > I don?t believe this request to Robert is warranted. > > Robyn made a claim that determines the suitability of the grant that isn't > specific to the Moe Menshed. I think it's reasonable to discover whether > the > Moe Menshed is going to operate like the ones in Adelaide. > > > Secondly: assuming that it does apply, the wording still refers to > > ?unwarranted exclusion?. Robert has been asked to defend the ?exclusion? > > part, but the ?unwarranted? part seems to have been ignored. Beyond Blue > > commissioned a detailed study[2] on Mens Sheds in 2013 and found that > they > > ?are in an important position to be able to impact priority health > group?; > > and that ?Shed membership positively impacts on the experience of mental > > health and well-being.? > > That article raises some good points. But there's nothing in there that > indicates a single-gender shed is required and there's no comparison done > with > makerspaces, hackerspaces, or other non-gender specific organisations. > > In terms of support for older men, makerspaces and hackerspaces appear to > do > well in that regard. In all my visits to such places in Australia the only > time I recall seeing more than 1 woman in a hackerspace at the same time > was > the special visit to the Canberra space after an LCA. On most of the > occasions I've visited hackerspaces there have been no women there for the > entire duration of my visit. > > > So: this is not a conference, nor a related event. Rather than exclusion, > > there is a focus particular priority health group, and that focus seems > to > > have been shown to be warranted. > > Where has it been shown that being gender specific is required? > > Have the Adelaide mensheds that allow women to enter been shown to be less > effective than ones that are strictly men-only? > > If "menshed" is just a name as Robyn says then Robert can easily confirm > this > and we can move on. But we need facts to make a decision. We can't have a > reasonable discussion about it when people are operating on significantly > different interpretations of the meaning of the organisation. > > James, we need to know whether your interpretation or Robyn's > interpretation > is correct. Robert is the only one who can clarify this. > > > I think the original grant request here is suboptimal - I would prefer to > > see us working together with ITShare or ComputerBank on a coordinated > > approach, where perhaps we provide funding, they provide hardware, and > the > > Mens Shed provides a venue and training. I don?t know precisely what > Robyn > > had in mind, but I commend her for stepping up and offering to work on a > > more effective way for the funding to be used. > > Of the reasons given for joining mens' sheds in the Beyond Blue article 2 > of > the top 4 are "to give back to the community" and "to share my knowledge > and > expertise". It seems that paying people to run training isn't going to > help > that and may actually diminish it. Consider Dunc Tank as a practical > demonstration of this. > > > [0] The CoC quoted here was actually specific to LCA2017 and definitely > not > > relevant here; but it?s based on the actual LA code of conduct[1], which > > does contain the same language. > > [1] > > > https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/blob/master/code > > _of_conduct.md [2] > > > https://www.beyondblue.org.au/docs/default-source/research-project-files/bw0 > > 208.pdf?sfvrsn=2 [3] https://linux.org.au/values > > -- > My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ > My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From russell at coker.com.au Sat Mar 25 21:34:44 2017 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 21:34:44 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application - A grant to Moe Menshed (about to start) In-Reply-To: References: <4348180.CfaXf4OK6d@russell.coker.com.au> Message-ID: <2572609.ynZRpN1AX9@russell.coker.com.au> On Saturday, 25 March 2017 10:16:49 AM AEDT James Purser wrote: > I'm more than happy for Linux Australia to find a grant for equipment if > it's related to educating people in the use of FOSS and what FOSS is about. I agree. I go even further, I support hackerspaces/makerspaces even if they don't have a FOSS focus. While some hackerspaces tend towards a Linux focus because the people who want to control their hardware tend to want to control their software, I've seen more than a few Windows systems at hackerspaces in the past. I don't think that LA should be opposed to non-profit artistic and engineering persuits that just happen to involve Windows (LA isn't a Linux specific organisation). > The discussion about whether a "men's shed" is a valid recipient? > Absolutely. While their focus may be for men, they provide a vital > connection for men over a certain age, who are statistically much more at > risk of suicide and social isolation. The hackerspaces and makerspaces in Australia appear to be significantly greater than 90% male (based on who I've observed attending) and they have a good portion of grey-haired men who attend. If the Moe Menshed is going to be another name for a hackerspace and have the same 90%+ male membership as the other hackerspaces then I think it's OK to fund equipment in a cost effective manner such as arranging transport from Melbourne where lots of good stuff (including i7 PCs, large switches, rack- mount servers, and more) is available for free. As I said before I'm happy to help arrange free hardware. If it's going to be a specifically male venue then I won't support sponsorship unless there is evidence that there is a social benefit that can't be achieved by a multi-gender organisation. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From paulway at mabula.net Sun Mar 26 16:27:14 2017 From: paulway at mabula.net (Paul Wayper) Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 16:27:14 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application - A grant to Moe Menshed (about to start) In-Reply-To: <481a537ef35a085cfa991d82535e62f7@ausics.net> References: <4a2bd177-83a1-bff1-32f9-fb0505936661@robynspcs.com> <3526135.zCyy1LDH2H@russell.coker.com.au> <44a05998-21d1-167e-0c9d-b8b303842d3f@kathyreid.id.au> <12c8a755-0802-3d34-65d2-3c14200b2d9c@mabula.net> <481a537ef35a085cfa991d82535e62f7@ausics.net> Message-ID: <42fa9427-96a9-bf98-0d38-2affc1cfa19a@mabula.net> On 25/03/17 18:04, Noel Butler wrote: > On 25/03/2017 07:10, Paul Wayper wrote: > >> On 24/03/17 16:36, Kathy Reid wrote: >>> Let's called it a BIKE-shed, because this is exactly what this is. >> >> I disagree. I fully agree with Russell - if it's open to all people, call it >> a shed or a hackerspace or whatever. I would not like to see Linux Australia-- >> >> >> > Mens Shed is their Australia wide legal name, they are everywhere, I've helped > out a couple local ones myself when they needed some telco work done, so your > argument on what they call themselves is pointless, they also aren't just a > bunch of old blokes, there's teenagers as young as 16 involved. > > >> I would not like to see Linux Australia putting money toward something where >> women were excluded >> > So you objected a few years back when LA gave to the womens only thingy? Dont > recall your name saying as much. I think you need to learn the difference between positive and negative discrimination. > All forms of gender/sex discrimination is wrong, but when you do, you cant > play favorites, all sides are to be treated and considered without the "gender > only" consideration - unless you want to appear before the federal court to > explain your actions if a rejection is challenged :) Oh, please, stop the amateur dramatics. I'm a member of the ACT Woodcraft Guild. This is a club that's about 80% male membership (at a guess). Why? Because historically men were the ones given access to training in woodworking (at school), and so were given more chance to develop an interest in woodworking. We don't have 'men' in the title, and the Guild charter says nothing about gender. But we have a bias toward men because that's the history of manual crafts. We now have about 40% or more women coming along to the wood turning, thanks to a couple of dedicated women who have been keen and enthusiastic and bringing their friends along. We're continuing to see more women of all ages come along. It's also about 70% retiree membership, and that's slowly being pushed down as the shed is available on more evenings and weekends for more activities (as we expand). The ACTWG hasn't done any "positive discrimination" sessions where the shed is set aside for women and men are asked to not attend those sessions. But I've been in other woodcraft groups and I've seen those sessions, and they're great. I'd fully encourage those sessions - not least because there are still some misogynist guys around in the ACTWG whose behaviour is never actionable but is sometimes enough to put women off. OTOH nearby the ACTWG is the Woden Men's Shed. A friend has been to it, and said it's basically 100% retired old white men complaining about how they're being left behind, making sexist jokes, and not doing much. Until we get to the stage where sexist behaviour is a thing of the past, I'm prepared to see positive discrimination for people who aren't given a fair go. So as Russell has said, I'd like at least to hear from the Moe Menshed group itself on its policy around women members. I don't care what their current membership proportions are, I'm only interested in their policy. HTH, Paul From president at linux.org.au Mon Mar 27 08:21:33 2017 From: president at linux.org.au (Linux Australia President) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 08:21:33 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application - A grant to Moe Menshed (about to start) In-Reply-To: <42fa9427-96a9-bf98-0d38-2affc1cfa19a@mabula.net> References: <4a2bd177-83a1-bff1-32f9-fb0505936661@robynspcs.com> <3526135.zCyy1LDH2H@russell.coker.com.au> <44a05998-21d1-167e-0c9d-b8b303842d3f@kathyreid.id.au> <12c8a755-0802-3d34-65d2-3c14200b2d9c@mabula.net> <481a537ef35a085cfa991d82535e62f7@ausics.net> <42fa9427-96a9-bf98-0d38-2affc1cfa19a@mabula.net> Message-ID: Thanks everyone for your feedback on this Grant Application. We will take on board this feedback at Council Meeting 13th April, where this Grant Application will be decided. Kind regards, Kathy On 26/03/17 16:27, Paul Wayper wrote: > On 25/03/17 18:04, Noel Butler wrote: >> On 25/03/2017 07:10, Paul Wayper wrote: >> >>> On 24/03/17 16:36, Kathy Reid wrote: >>>> Let's called it a BIKE-shed, because this is exactly what this is. >>> I disagree. I fully agree with Russell - if it's open to all people, call it >>> a shed or a hackerspace or whatever. I would not like to see Linux Australia-- >>> >>> >>> >> Mens Shed is their Australia wide legal name, they are everywhere, I've helped >> out a couple local ones myself when they needed some telco work done, so your >> argument on what they call themselves is pointless, they also aren't just a >> bunch of old blokes, there's teenagers as young as 16 involved. >> >> >>> I would not like to see Linux Australia putting money toward something where >>> women were excluded >>> >> So you objected a few years back when LA gave to the womens only thingy? Dont >> recall your name saying as much. > I think you need to learn the difference between positive and negative > discrimination. > >> All forms of gender/sex discrimination is wrong, but when you do, you cant >> play favorites, all sides are to be treated and considered without the "gender >> only" consideration - unless you want to appear before the federal court to >> explain your actions if a rejection is challenged :) > Oh, please, stop the amateur dramatics. > > I'm a member of the ACT Woodcraft Guild. This is a club that's about 80% male > membership (at a guess). Why? Because historically men were the ones given > access to training in woodworking (at school), and so were given more chance > to develop an interest in woodworking. We don't have 'men' in the title, and > the Guild charter says nothing about gender. But we have a bias toward men > because that's the history of manual crafts. > > We now have about 40% or more women coming along to the wood turning, thanks > to a couple of dedicated women who have been keen and enthusiastic and > bringing their friends along. We're continuing to see more women of all ages > come along. It's also about 70% retiree membership, and that's slowly being > pushed down as the shed is available on more evenings and weekends for more > activities (as we expand). > > The ACTWG hasn't done any "positive discrimination" sessions where the shed is > set aside for women and men are asked to not attend those sessions. But I've > been in other woodcraft groups and I've seen those sessions, and they're > great. I'd fully encourage those sessions - not least because there are still > some misogynist guys around in the ACTWG whose behaviour is never actionable > but is sometimes enough to put women off. > > OTOH nearby the ACTWG is the Woden Men's Shed. A friend has been to it, and > said it's basically 100% retired old white men complaining about how they're > being left behind, making sexist jokes, and not doing much. > > Until we get to the stage where sexist behaviour is a thing of the past, I'm > prepared to see positive discrimination for people who aren't given a fair go. > > So as Russell has said, I'd like at least to hear from the Moe Menshed group > itself on its policy around women members. I don't care what their current > membership proportions are, I'm only interested in their policy. > > HTH, > > Paul > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus -- Kathy Reid President Linux Australia 0418 130 636 president at linux.org.au http://linux.org.au Linux Australia Inc GPO Box 4788 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia ABN 56 987 117 479 From russell at coker.com.au Mon Mar 27 16:21:51 2017 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 16:21:51 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Fwd: Re: Grant Application - A grant to Moe Menshed (about to start) Message-ID: <12964559.ILLEiEFjPr@russell.coker.com.au> Robert asked me to forward this message to the list as he isn't aware of how to use lists. I've removed the phone number, I'll provide it privately to anyone who has a good reason to call him. ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Re: [Linux-aus] Grant Application - A grant to Moe Menshed (about to start) Date: Sunday, 26 March 2017, 8:55:43 AM AEDT From: Robert Palmer To: russell at coker.com.au Dear Russell, The reason that it is called a menshed is so that wives left at home do not worry that their husband is seeing another woman. In Wagga Wagga Menshed one or two women actually had official position and were an asset. I find that a few women do improve the character of the club. In the same way, having a computer room and section changes the character of the club otherwise ex-tradesmen overwhelmingly predominate. I am not an ex-tradesman and have an odd background for this organisation. I started bee-keeping in Wagga Wagga Menshed; this was not in the character of the organisation. It is, I think, rather important to keep the pretense of men only but it is better if it is not the reality. Talk to Collin Wooton on Tel ******** to get a more valid picture of Moe Menshed values Yours faithfully Robert Palmer On 25 March 2017 at 18:40, Russell Coker wrote: > Robert, we are having ongoing discussions about your application for a > menshed > grant. Robyn says that in Adelaide the mensheds don't exclude women. To > clarify the issue please briefly explain what you are doing to make your > menshed welcoming to women and non-binary people. > > On Saturday, 25 March 2017 5:04:47 PM AEDT Noel Butler wrote: > > On 25/03/2017 07:10, Paul Wayper wrote: > > > On 24/03/17 16:36, Kathy Reid wrote: > > >> Let's called it a BIKE-shed, because this is exactly what this is. > > > > > > I disagree. I fully agree with Russell - if it's open to all people, > call > > > it a shed or a hackerspace or whatever. I would not like to see Linux > > > Australia-- > > Mens Shed is their Australia wide legal name, they are everywhere, I've > > helped out a couple local ones myself when they needed some telco work > > done, so your argument on what they call themselves is pointless, they > > also aren't just a bunch of old blokes, there's teenagers as young as 16 > > involved. > > > > > I would not like to see Linux Australia putting money toward something > > > where women were excluded > > So you objected a few years back when LA gave to the womens only thingy? > > Dont recall your name saying as much. > > > > All forms of gender/sex discrimination is wrong, but when you do, you > > cant play favorites, all sides are to be treated and considered without > > the "gender only" consideration - unless you want to appear before the > > federal court to explain your actions if a rejection is challenged :) > > https://linux.conf.au/attend/code-of-conduct/ > > The CoC used for LA events refers to "unwarranted exclusion from > conference or > related events based on age, gender, sexual orientation". So having a > women- > only event to address problems with the exclusion of women in many areas of > technology is acceptable. But having a men-only technology event would be > unwarranted. > > -- > My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ > My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ > > -- Robert Palmer ----------------------------------------- -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From brent.wallis at gmail.com Mon Mar 27 19:21:13 2017 From: brent.wallis at gmail.com (Brent Wallis) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 19:21:13 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Fwd: Re: Grant Application - A grant to Moe Menshed (about to start) In-Reply-To: <12964559.ILLEiEFjPr@russell.coker.com.au> References: <12964559.ILLEiEFjPr@russell.coker.com.au> Message-ID: https://www.beyondblue.org.au/about-us/research-projects/research-projects/men-s-sheds-in-australia On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 4:21 PM, Russell Coker wrote: > Robert asked me to forward this message to the list as he isn't aware of > how > to use lists. I've removed the phone number, I'll provide it privately to > anyone who has a good reason to call him. > > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > > Subject: Re: [Linux-aus] Grant Application - A grant to Moe Menshed (about > to > start) > Date: Sunday, 26 March 2017, 8:55:43 AM AEDT > From: Robert Palmer > To: russell at coker.com.au > > Dear Russell, > The reason that it is called a menshed is so that wives left at home do > not worry that their husband is seeing another woman. In Wagga Wagga > Menshed one or two women actually had official position and were an asset. > I find that a few women do improve the character of the club. In the same > way, having a computer room and section changes the character of the club > otherwise ex-tradesmen overwhelmingly predominate. I am not an > ex-tradesman and have an odd background for this organisation. I started > bee-keeping in Wagga Wagga Menshed; this was not in the character of the > organisation. It is, I think, rather important to keep the pretense of men > only but it is better if it is not the reality. > Talk to Collin Wooton on Tel ******** to get a more valid picture of > Moe Menshed values > Yours faithfully Robert Palmer > > On 25 March 2017 at 18:40, Russell Coker wrote: > > > Robert, we are having ongoing discussions about your application for a > > menshed > > grant. Robyn says that in Adelaide the mensheds don't exclude women. To > > clarify the issue please briefly explain what you are doing to make your > > menshed welcoming to women and non-binary people. > > > > On Saturday, 25 March 2017 5:04:47 PM AEDT Noel Butler wrote: > > > On 25/03/2017 07:10, Paul Wayper wrote: > > > > On 24/03/17 16:36, Kathy Reid wrote: > > > >> Let's called it a BIKE-shed, because this is exactly what this is. > > > > > > > > I disagree. I fully agree with Russell - if it's open to all people, > > call > > > > it a shed or a hackerspace or whatever. I would not like to see > Linux > > > > Australia-- > > > Mens Shed is their Australia wide legal name, they are everywhere, I've > > > helped out a couple local ones myself when they needed some telco work > > > done, so your argument on what they call themselves is pointless, they > > > also aren't just a bunch of old blokes, there's teenagers as young as > 16 > > > involved. > > > > > > > I would not like to see Linux Australia putting money toward > something > > > > where women were excluded > > > So you objected a few years back when LA gave to the womens only > thingy? > > > Dont recall your name saying as much. > > > > > > All forms of gender/sex discrimination is wrong, but when you do, you > > > cant play favorites, all sides are to be treated and considered without > > > the "gender only" consideration - unless you want to appear before the > > > federal court to explain your actions if a rejection is challenged :) > > > > https://linux.conf.au/attend/code-of-conduct/ > > > > The CoC used for LA events refers to "unwarranted exclusion from > > conference or > > related events based on age, gender, sexual orientation". So having a > > women- > > only event to address problems with the exclusion of women in many areas > of > > technology is acceptable. But having a men-only technology event would > be > > unwarranted. > > > > -- > > My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ > > My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ > > > > > > > -- > Robert Palmer > > ----------------------------------------- > -- > My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ > My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tleeuwenburg at gmail.com Mon Mar 27 19:42:38 2017 From: tleeuwenburg at gmail.com (Tennessee Leeuwenburg) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 19:42:38 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application - A grant to Moe Menshed (about to start) In-Reply-To: References: <4a2bd177-83a1-bff1-32f9-fb0505936661@robynspcs.com> <3526135.zCyy1LDH2H@russell.coker.com.au> <44a05998-21d1-167e-0c9d-b8b303842d3f@kathyreid.id.au> <12c8a755-0802-3d34-65d2-3c14200b2d9c@mabula.net> <481a537ef35a085cfa991d82535e62f7@ausics.net> <42fa9427-96a9-bf98-0d38-2affc1cfa19a@mabula.net> Message-ID: I personally have no problem with supporting a donation / support for a Men's Shed. It has a clearly positive intent, and I don't think the fact it serves a particular demographic takes away from its positive mission in this case. It is possible that this could be approached by seeing if a matched donation to either PyLadies or Data Dames would be of assistance (not that they have applied)? That would perhaps allow LA to support this group while also ensuring that there is an even support across other demographics. It may be a bit simplistic, but perhaps it is enough. While I can see why people would have a variety of views on this matter, I think there "helping people help others" is an impact multiplier and it's important to support such efforts. On 27 March 2017 at 08:21, Linux Australia President wrote: > Thanks everyone for your feedback on this Grant Application. We will take > on board this feedback at Council Meeting 13th April, where this Grant > Application will be decided. > > Kind regards, > Kathy > > > On 26/03/17 16:27, Paul Wayper wrote: > > On 25/03/17 18:04, Noel Butler wrote: > >> On 25/03/2017 07:10, Paul Wayper wrote: > >> > >>> On 24/03/17 16:36, Kathy Reid wrote: > >>>> Let's called it a BIKE-shed, because this is exactly what this is. > >>> I disagree. I fully agree with Russell - if it's open to all people, > call it > >>> a shed or a hackerspace or whatever. I would not like to see Linux > Australia-- > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> Mens Shed is their Australia wide legal name, they are everywhere, I've > helped > >> out a couple local ones myself when they needed some telco work done, > so your > >> argument on what they call themselves is pointless, they also aren't > just a > >> bunch of old blokes, there's teenagers as young as 16 involved. > >> > >> > >>> I would not like to see Linux Australia putting money toward something > where > >>> women were excluded > >>> > >> So you objected a few years back when LA gave to the womens only > thingy? Dont > >> recall your name saying as much. > > I think you need to learn the difference between positive and negative > > discrimination. > > > >> All forms of gender/sex discrimination is wrong, but when you do, you > cant > >> play favorites, all sides are to be treated and considered without the > "gender > >> only" consideration - unless you want to appear before the federal > court to > >> explain your actions if a rejection is challenged :) > > Oh, please, stop the amateur dramatics. > > > > I'm a member of the ACT Woodcraft Guild. This is a club that's about > 80% male > > membership (at a guess). Why? Because historically men were the ones > given > > access to training in woodworking (at school), and so were given more > chance > > to develop an interest in woodworking. We don't have 'men' in the > title, and > > the Guild charter says nothing about gender. But we have a bias toward > men > > because that's the history of manual crafts. > > > > We now have about 40% or more women coming along to the wood turning, > thanks > > to a couple of dedicated women who have been keen and enthusiastic and > > bringing their friends along. We're continuing to see more women of all > ages > > come along. It's also about 70% retiree membership, and that's slowly > being > > pushed down as the shed is available on more evenings and weekends for > more > > activities (as we expand). > > > > The ACTWG hasn't done any "positive discrimination" sessions where the > shed is > > set aside for women and men are asked to not attend those sessions. But > I've > > been in other woodcraft groups and I've seen those sessions, and they're > > great. I'd fully encourage those sessions - not least because there are > still > > some misogynist guys around in the ACTWG whose behaviour is never > actionable > > but is sometimes enough to put women off. > > > > OTOH nearby the ACTWG is the Woden Men's Shed. A friend has been to it, > and > > said it's basically 100% retired old white men complaining about how > they're > > being left behind, making sexist jokes, and not doing much. > > > > Until we get to the stage where sexist behaviour is a thing of the past, > I'm > > prepared to see positive discrimination for people who aren't given a > fair go. > > > > So as Russell has said, I'd like at least to hear from the Moe Menshed > group > > itself on its policy around women members. I don't care what their > current > > membership proportions are, I'm only interested in their policy. > > > > HTH, > > > > Paul > > _______________________________________________ > > linux-aus mailing list > > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > -- > Kathy Reid > President > Linux Australia > > 0418 130 636 > > president at linux.org.au > http://linux.org.au > > Linux Australia Inc > GPO Box 4788 > Sydney NSW 2001 > Australia > > ABN 56 987 117 479 > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > -- -------------------------------------------------- Tennessee Leeuwenburg http://myownhat.blogspot.com/ "Don't believe everything you think" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lloy0076 at adam.com.au Tue Mar 28 00:49:11 2017 From: lloy0076 at adam.com.au (David Lloyd) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 09:49:11 -0400 Subject: [Linux-aus] Fwd: Re: Grant Application - A grant to Moe Menshed (about to start) In-Reply-To: References: <12964559.ILLEiEFjPr@russell.coker.com.au> Message-ID: <018601d2a700$eb9ed7e0$c2dc87a0$@adam.com.au> For my two cents, it?s important to evaluate: * Would the grant further the constitutional aim of Linux Australia Inc and if so, how? * Would the grant be in line with the policies as set by Linux Australia (usually by the committee in consultation with its members)? Obviously, Linux Australia Inc is an organisation committed to gender equality, and one aware that in the Australian context it is not difficult to argue that there are structural, cultural and other reasons why women are not as represented as men even though women in Australia are, as expected, approximately 50% of the population [1]. In the sense that the grant could, as I understand it, it would be difficult to claim that a grant to ?provide a safe computing environment running open source software in the community? is against the organisation?s constitutional aims and I don?t think anyone is arguing that. Whether granting this grant on the basis that the association maintain a ?pretense [sic] of men only? fits in with the policies seems the major issue. Given the summary of the research project from Beyond Blue (source URL in quote below) ? i.e. that such an organisation might ?help men regain a purpose in life, enhance self-esteem?, I don?t feel this is outside of the organisation?s goal ? nor is it against its stated policies. That said, a lot of valid concerns (and other chatter) has been had over this matter and I am but one opinion amongst many esteemed friends. DSL [1] Statistics, statisticians and liars! From: linux-aus [mailto:linux-aus-bounces at lists.linux.org.au] On Behalf Of Brent Wallis Sent: Monday, 27 March 2017 4:21 AM To: Linux Australia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Linux-aus] Fwd: Re: Grant Application - A grant to Moe Menshed (about to start) https://www.beyondblue.org.au/about-us/research-projects/research-projects/men-s-sheds-in-australia On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 4:21 PM, Russell Coker > wrote: Robert asked me to forward this message to the list as he isn't aware of how to use lists. I've removed the phone number, I'll provide it privately to anyone who has a good reason to call him. ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Re: [Linux-aus] Grant Application - A grant to Moe Menshed (about to start) Date: Sunday, 26 March 2017, 8:55:43 AM AEDT From: Robert Palmer > To: russell at coker.com.au Dear Russell, The reason that it is called a menshed is so that wives left at home do not worry that their husband is seeing another woman. In Wagga Wagga Menshed one or two women actually had official position and were an asset. I find that a few women do improve the character of the club. In the same way, having a computer room and section changes the character of the club otherwise ex-tradesmen overwhelmingly predominate. I am not an ex-tradesman and have an odd background for this organisation. I started bee-keeping in Wagga Wagga Menshed; this was not in the character of the organisation. It is, I think, rather important to keep the pretense of men only but it is better if it is not the reality. Talk to Collin Wooton on Tel ******** to get a more valid picture of Moe Menshed values Yours faithfully Robert Palmer On 25 March 2017 at 18:40, Russell Coker > wrote: > Robert, we are having ongoing discussions about your application for a > menshed > grant. Robyn says that in Adelaide the mensheds don't exclude women. To > clarify the issue please briefly explain what you are doing to make your > menshed welcoming to women and non-binary people. > > On Saturday, 25 March 2017 5:04:47 PM AEDT Noel Butler wrote: > > On 25/03/2017 07:10, Paul Wayper wrote: > > > On 24/03/17 16:36, Kathy Reid wrote: > > >> Let's called it a BIKE-shed, because this is exactly what this is. > > > > > > I disagree. I fully agree with Russell - if it's open to all people, > call > > > it a shed or a hackerspace or whatever. I would not like to see Linux > > > Australia-- > > Mens Shed is their Australia wide legal name, they are everywhere, I've > > helped out a couple local ones myself when they needed some telco work > > done, so your argument on what they call themselves is pointless, they > > also aren't just a bunch of old blokes, there's teenagers as young as 16 > > involved. > > > > > I would not like to see Linux Australia putting money toward something > > > where women were excluded > > So you objected a few years back when LA gave to the womens only thingy? > > Dont recall your name saying as much. > > > > All forms of gender/sex discrimination is wrong, but when you do, you > > cant play favorites, all sides are to be treated and considered without > > the "gender only" consideration - unless you want to appear before the > > federal court to explain your actions if a rejection is challenged :) > > https://linux.conf.au/attend/code-of-conduct/ > > The CoC used for LA events refers to "unwarranted exclusion from > conference or > related events based on age, gender, sexual orientation". So having a > women- > only event to address problems with the exclusion of women in many areas of > technology is acceptable. But having a men-only technology event would be > unwarranted. > > -- > My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ > My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ > > -- Robert Palmer ----------------------------------------- -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ _______________________________________________ linux-aus mailing list linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noel.butler at ausics.net Tue Mar 28 17:50:42 2017 From: noel.butler at ausics.net (Noel Butler) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 16:50:42 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application - A grant to Moe Menshed (about to start) In-Reply-To: <2047371.MOPriS2tZL@russell.coker.com.au> References: <12c8a755-0802-3d34-65d2-3c14200b2d9c@mabula.net> <481a537ef35a085cfa991d82535e62f7@ausics.net> <2047371.MOPriS2tZL@russell.coker.com.au> Message-ID: On 25/03/2017 17:40, Russell Coker wrote: >> All forms of gender/sex discrimination is wrong, but when you do, you >> cant play favorites, all sides are to be treated and considered without >> the "gender only" consideration - unless you want to appear before the >> federal court to explain your actions if a rejection is challenged :) > > https://linux.conf.au/attend/code-of-conduct/ > > The CoC used for LA events refers to "unwarranted exclusion from conference or > related events based on age, gender, sexual orientation". So having a women- > only event to address problems with the exclusion of women in many areas of > technology is acceptable. But having a men-only technology event would be > unwarranted. So, if they are a bunch of old blokes only, that is acceptable then since they are even more remote than women in this industry, but I suspect you'll deny that too. As I've said a few times, I find no discrimination acceptable, but when you do, you can't continue to play favorites with only one side, there must be balance, but it seems you do so long as its a minority group you want to support, and that's fair enough, after all, that's the entire point of it being discussed, to assist council in their final determination. Concluding, it seems Russell, we'll have to agree to disagree on playing favorites, and on support for this grant, enjoy your day. -- Kind Regards, Noel Butler This Email, including any attachments, may contain legally privileged information, therefore remains confidential and subject to copyright protected under international law. You may not disseminate, discuss, or reveal, any part, to anyone, without the authors express written authority to do so. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender then delete all copies of this message including attachments, immediately. Confidentiality, copyright, and legal privilege are not waived or lost by reason of the mistaken delivery of this message. Only PDF [1] and ODF [2] documents accepted, please do not send proprietary formatted documents Links: ------ [1] http://www.adobe.com/ [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 473 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From noel.butler at ausics.net Tue Mar 28 17:55:30 2017 From: noel.butler at ausics.net (Noel Butler) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 16:55:30 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application - A grant to Moe Menshed (about to start) In-Reply-To: References: <4a2bd177-83a1-bff1-32f9-fb0505936661@robynspcs.com> <3526135.zCyy1LDH2H@russell.coker.com.au> <44a05998-21d1-167e-0c9d-b8b303842d3f@kathyreid.id.au> <12c8a755-0802-3d34-65d2-3c14200b2d9c@mabula.net> <481a537ef35a085cfa991d82535e62f7@ausics.net> <42fa9427-96a9-bf98-0d38-2affc1cfa19a@mabula.net> Message-ID: Hrmm, didn't see the post from Paul, but my reply to Russell a few moments ago, more or less answers this one as well. On 27/03/2017 07:21, Linux Australia President wrote: > Thanks everyone for your feedback on this Grant Application. We will take on board this feedback at Council Meeting 13th April, where this Grant Application will be decided. > > Kind regards, > Kathy > > On 26/03/17 16:27, Paul Wayper wrote: O > So you objected a few years back when LA gave to the womens only thingy? Dont > recall your name saying as much. I think you need to learn the difference between positive and negative > discrimination. -- Kind Regards, Noel Butler This Email, including any attachments, may contain legally privileged information, therefore remains confidential and subject to copyright protected under international law. You may not disseminate, discuss, or reveal, any part, to anyone, without the authors express written authority to do so. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender then delete all copies of this message including attachments, immediately. Confidentiality, copyright, and legal privilege are not waived or lost by reason of the mistaken delivery of this message. Only PDF [1] and ODF [2] documents accepted, please do not send proprietary formatted documents Links: ------ [1] http://www.adobe.com/ [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 473 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rowland at stemformatics.org Wed Mar 29 17:46:12 2017 From: rowland at stemformatics.org (Rowland Mosbergen) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 17:46:12 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Stemformatics application for the Linux Australia Grants Scheme Message-ID: Dear Linux Australia Council members and community, I would like to make a grant application for the Linux Australia Grants Scheme on behalf of Stemformatics. You can view the application as a pdf (attached) or a link (below): https://docs.google.com/document/d/15Hjv6EC6GA2A6_DQcOjv7zqubt96nBaqoV7YbeUNCJg/edit?usp=sharing I only recently realised that I need to be a member of Linux Australia to quality for this grant. I did apply on the 27th of March 2017 to fulfil this criteria. Please let me know if any extra information is needed for this application. Regards, Rowland ------------ Rowland Mosbergen | Business Manager, Stemformatics Wells Laboratory | Centre for Stem Cell Systems Department of Anatomy and Neuroscience | Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry and Health Sciences Room 1.36, Level 1, Kenneth Myer Building The University of Melbourne, Victoria 3010 Australia T: +61 3 8344 6623 | E: rowland at stemformatics.org W: www.stemformatics.org | Skype: rowland.stemformatics [image: id:image001.jpg at 01D20A8D.3D4A4630] This email and any attachments may contain personal information or information that is otherwise confidential or the subject of copyright. Any use, disclosure or copying of any part of it is prohibited. The University does not warrant that this email or any attachments are free from viruses or defects. Please check any attachments for viruses and defects before opening them. If this email is received in error please delete it and notify us by return email. This email and any attachments may contain personal information or information that is otherwise confidential or the subject of copyright. Any use, disclosure or copying of any part of it is prohibited. The University does not warrant that this email or any attachments are free from viruses or defects. Please check any attachments for viruses and defects before opening them. If this email is received in error please delete it and notify us by return email. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 14698 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2017-03-27 Stemformatics Data Portal Linux Australia Grant Submission.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 71067 bytes Desc: not available URL: From russell at coker.com.au Wed Mar 29 21:37:20 2017 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 21:37:20 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Stemformatics application for the Linux Australia Grants Scheme In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5005519.zjfqnDTL4Y@russell.coker.com.au> On Wednesday, 29 March 2017 5:46:12 PM AEDT Rowland Mosbergen wrote: > Dear Linux Australia Council members and community, > > I would like to make a grant application for the Linux Australia Grants > Scheme on behalf of Stemformatics. > > You can view the application as a pdf (attached) or a link (below): > https://docs.google.com/document/d/15Hjv6EC6GA2A6_DQcOjv7zqubt96nBaqoV7YbeUN > CJg/edit?usp=sharing > > I only recently realised that I need to be a member of Linux Australia to > quality for this grant. I did apply on the 27th of March 2017 to fulfil > this criteria. > > Please let me know if any extra information is needed for this application. I think this is a very worthy project and the amount of money requested seems reasonable given the expected return. But I have some concerns about licensing and source access. The PDF states that you will "create all of these under an open source license (Apache License, Version 2.0)". What about the license of the datasets that you are using? It's implied that you are getting them from other organisations, do they have licenses that are compatible or are you receiving a license grant from those organisations that permits redistributing the bundle under the Apache license? I expect that you will have sorted this out somehow, but I would like it made clear. For the software that is produced, will you put it in a public repository like Github? How big is the data? Can the data fit in github or some other public repository? Is there a risk that access to the curated data needed for the application might be removed at some future time? Finally if this grant application is approved I suggest that we make a further offer of travel expenses if one of the developers of this project is accepted as a speaker at an LCA miniconf. The general practice is that speakers at the main conference may be offered travel expenses from the LCA budget but not for miniconf speakers. I think that we should make it a standard practice that a miniconf speaker who is speaking about work performed under an LA grant should be offered a further grant towards travel expenses from anywhere in Australia or NZ. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From president at linux.org.au Fri Mar 31 12:36:14 2017 From: president at linux.org.au (Linux Australia President) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 12:36:14 +1100 Subject: [Linux-aus] Internet Australia Security Special Interest Group (SIG) Message-ID: <9f194b5e-9cd6-627b-dde1-ebe28827f970@linux.org.au> Hi everyone, In a previous communication we relayed that we were intending to meet with both Electronic Frontiers Australia and Internet Australia to identify where our organisations could align and co-operate for stronger impact. We've now met with both Jon Lawrence and George Fong respectively, and there are many threads of discussion that are now being worked through - and when they are more concrete I will of course report them back. I thank both Jon and George for their time, energy and willingness to identify areas where we can work together. One of the first items to arise from these discussions is that of the Internet Australia Security Special Interest Group (SIG) https://www.internet.org.au/our-work/23-our-work/sigs/58-security The SIG aims to give body to the Internet Architecture Board's Statement on Internet Confidentiality https://www.iab.org/2014/11/14/iab-statement-on-internet-confidentiality/ the most important line of which is, IMHO, "We recommend that encryption be deployed throughout the protocol stack since there is not a single place within the stack where all kinds of communication can be protected." Internet Australia have approached Linux Australia for technical representation on this SIG - and we're now seeking nominations from our broader community to join the SIG. Nominations can be directed to George Fong (george at lateral plains one word dot com) With kind regards, Kathy -- Kathy Reid President Linux Australia 0418 130 636 president at linux.org.au http://linux.org.au Linux Australia Inc GPO Box 4788 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia ABN 56 987 117 479