From rowland at stemformatics.org  Sat Apr  1 09:05:39 2017
From: rowland at stemformatics.org (Rowland Mosbergen)
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2017 09:05:39 +1100
Subject: [Linux-aus] Stemformatics application for the Linux Australia
 Grants Scheme
In-Reply-To: <5005519.zjfqnDTL4Y@russell.coker.com.au>
References: <CACSt7qmi+5B+Da7j7XPNZ8miZG_M+=n7K9gKd6+tQaUdaEUjyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5005519.zjfqnDTL4Y@russell.coker.com.au>
Message-ID: <CACSt7qkd9VpxcCtqbqG2csQO4eAwWr-BGsu5gKXmrcfFGFg6ww@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Russell,

That question about dataset licensing is very good one that I have not
thought of before.  Going forward I will do some research about where we
are getting our data from and their licensing and choose a data license for
our processed data and make it explicit on the website.

All software will be put into a public bitbucket account alongside our
current Stemformatics software.

I can also see your point about *"Is there a risk that access to the
curated data needed for the **application might be removed at some future
time?"*. The processed data would be in the tens of TBs so would not be
able to fit in github/bitbucket. This data will be treated the same as
other research data as it will be hosted on NeCTAR / RDS services. The
chances of that data being removed without oversight in the future would be
greatly reduced  compared to hosting it on a commercial platform.

Thanks again for your input Russell, I hope that I have answered your
questions.

Regards,

Rowland

------------

Rowland Mosbergen | Business Manager, Stemformatics
Wells Laboratory | Centre for Stem Cell Systems
Department of Anatomy and Neuroscience | Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry and
Health Sciences

Room 1.36, Level 1, Kenneth Myer Building
The University of Melbourne, Victoria 3010 Australia
T: +61 3 8344 6623 | E: rowland at stemformatics.org
W: www.stemformatics.org  | Skype: rowland.stemformatics

[image: id:image001.jpg at 01D20A8D.3D4A4630]



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On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 9:37 PM, Russell Coker <russell at coker.com.au> wrote:

> On Wednesday, 29 March 2017 5:46:12 PM AEDT Rowland Mosbergen wrote:
> > Dear Linux Australia Council members and community,
> >
> > I would like to make a grant application for the Linux Australia Grants
> > Scheme on behalf of Stemformatics.
> >
> > You can view the application as a pdf (attached) or a link (below):
> > https://docs.google.com/document/d/15Hjv6EC6GA2A6_
> DQcOjv7zqubt96nBaqoV7YbeUN
> > CJg/edit?usp=sharing
> >
> > I only recently realised that I need to be a member of Linux Australia to
> > quality for this grant. I did apply on the 27th of March 2017 to fulfil
> > this criteria.
> >
> > Please let me know if any extra information is needed for this
> application.
>
> I think this is a very worthy project and the amount of money requested
> seems
> reasonable given the expected return.  But I have some concerns about
> licensing and source access.
>
> The PDF states that you will "create all of these under an open source
> license
> (Apache License, Version 2.0)".  What about the license of the datasets
> that
> you are using?  It's implied that you are getting them from other
> organisations, do they have licenses that are compatible or are you
> receiving
> a license grant from those organisations that permits redistributing the
> bundle under the Apache license?  I expect that you will have sorted this
> out
> somehow, but I would like it made clear.
>
> For the software that is produced, will you put it in a public repository
> like
> Github?  How big is the data?  Can the data fit in github or some other
> public
> repository?  Is there a risk that access to the curated data needed for the
> application might be removed at some future time?
>
> Finally if this grant application is approved I suggest that we make a
> further
> offer of travel expenses if one of the developers of this project is
> accepted
> as a speaker at an LCA miniconf.  The general practice is that speakers at
> the
> main conference may be offered travel expenses from the LCA budget but not
> for
> miniconf speakers.  I think that we should make it a standard practice
> that a
> miniconf speaker who is speaking about work performed under an LA grant
> should
> be offered a further grant towards travel expenses from anywhere in
> Australia
> or NZ.
>
> --
> My Main Blog         http://etbe.coker.com.au/
> My Documents Blog    http://doc.coker.com.au/
>
>
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From mark.wallis at newcastle.edu.au  Mon Apr  3 12:36:11 2017
From: mark.wallis at newcastle.edu.au (Mark Wallis)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 02:36:11 +0000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in undergraduate
 Computer Science,
 Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University of
 Newcastle
Message-ID: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>

Hello everyone.

Please find below a grant application for your consideration. Please feel free to direct any feedback/queries to myself via the list.

Project Name: Promotion of FOSS in undergraduate Computer Science, Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University of Newcastle

Chief Investigator: Dr. Mark Wallis, Distributed Computing Research Group, University of Newcastle (mark.wallis at newcastle.edu.au)

Project Aim/Description:

The University of Newcastle currently offers under-graduate Bachelor degrees in Computer Science, Information Technology and Software Engineering. Courses from these degrees are taught from the School of Electrical Engineering and Computing across our Callaghan (Newcastle), Central Coast and Singapore campuses.

There is currently a low level of FOSS software promotion within the course material used to teach these degrees. Worked examples, workshops and tutorial material is strongly Microsoft Windows focused, primarily due to this being the operating system installed in all computer labs at the university. The effect is that students feel less inclined to explore FOSS in UON courses such as Programming, Operating Systems, Compiler Design and Computer Networks.

We propose to undertake a review of the course material being presented in the first 2 years of the above degrees. The review will identify all worked examples, tutorials and workshops which are presenting closed-sourced centric solutions. The outcome of this review will be a course development plan which aims to develop alternative or extended course material that covers alternate FOSS options available to students. The project will hire one undergraduate student to work with the chief investigator to develop the new course content during 2017, ready for students in 2018.

Examples of the course material that will be generated includes:

  *   Worked-examples under Linux, rather than Microsoft Windows (for example, instructions showing students how to install and configure a compiler)
  *   Short 5-minute video?s presenting FOSS alternatives to tools presented in the primary course material
  *   Short 5?minute video?s providing context of how the course relates to Open Source (for example, a case study of Linux Kernel development to be presented during the Operating Systems course)

To comply with pre-existing copyright, any existing course material which is expanded to include content generated by this grant will remain under the existing copyright terms. Any new content, such as the video presentations, will be released under a Creative Commons license.

The primary aim is to promote FOSS earlier in undergraduate degree?s to ensure that students graduate with an increased knowledge of the FOSS environment.

Project Milestones:


  *   Milestone 1 - Draft of the course development plan distributed to UON stakeholders (see over) ? 1 June 2017
  *   Milestone 2 - Final course development plan for signoff by UON stakeholders ? 1 July 2017
  *   Milestone 3 - Draft material presented to Course Co-ordinators for review ? 1 October 2017
  *   Milestone 4 ? Final material presented to Course Co-ordinators for signoff ? 1 November 2017


Project Review/Success:

Between Milestone 3 and Milestone 4 the course material will be iteratively developed with UON students who have previously completed the target courses. Focus groups will be run with these students, asking them to review the material and then complete a short questionnaire that will collect metrics on the following:


  *   The quality of the material
  *   The relevance of the material to the course and their degree
  *   Whether they believe the material will encourage them to personally investigate FOSS in more detail

The results of this survey will be anonymous and used to gauge the success of the project.
Pending approval by the UoN Ethics committee, these results will be made available and be used to gauge the success of the project.

Project Costs:

The chief investigator will provide in-kind support of time and expertise for the management of the grant and the co-development of new course material. An undergraduate student will be hired on a casual basis to co-develop the course material and manage the testing/feedback process.

An estimated 22 weeks at 5 hours per week will be allocated to the undergraduate student. The undergraduate student will be employed at HEW 5.1 casual rate of $43.77 per hour. With UON on-costs (16.2%) and indirect research costs (25%) this equates to a total of $6994.

We are requesting a grant of $7000 to cover these costs. There will be no additional costs associated with the project. All costs will be incurred by the 30th September 2017 as per grant requirements.

Project Management and Reporting:

The UON already has in place a reporting structure for all grants. Mid-way and final written reports will be provided to the Linux Australia Council.

Project Team:

The chief investigator for this project is Dr Mark Wallis. Mark is a member of Linux Australia and the Distributed Computing Research Group at UON and has been involved in teaching since 2010. Mark has been involved in various FOSS projects over the years, including the Newcastle Linux Users Group and kernel driver development for the Ralink 802.11 wireless chipset. Mark will be the key person responsible for this project.

The undergraduate student will be hired from our pool of undergraduates that we use for teaching tutorials and workshops.

Key stakeholders for this project include Course Co-ordinators who are responsible for delivery of the courses, Program Convenors who are responsible for each degrees, the Deputy HOS(Academic), Head of School, the School Industrial Advisory Board and student representatives.


Regards,
Mark.
===============================
Dr. Mark Wallis (Associate Lecturer)

School of Electrical Engineering and Computing
Faculty of Engineering and Built Environment
The University of Newcastle, Callaghan, 2308, NSW
AUSTRALIA

Webpage:
https://www.newcastle.edu.au/profile/mark-wallis


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From lloy0076 at adam.com.au  Mon Apr  3 12:55:55 2017
From: lloy0076 at adam.com.au (David Lloyd)
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2017 22:55:55 -0400
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in
	undergraduate Computer Science,
	Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the
	University of Newcastle
In-Reply-To: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
References: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
Message-ID: <007601d2ac25$d2e7f4f0$78b7ded0$@adam.com.au>

 

What do you want to do?

 

From: linux-aus [mailto:linux-aus-bounces at lists.linux.org.au] On Behalf Of Mark Wallis
Sent: Sunday, 2 April 2017 10:36 PM
To: linux-aus at linux.org.au; council at linux.org.au
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in undergraduate Computer Science, Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University of Newcastle

 

Hello everyone.

 

Please find below a grant application for your consideration. Please feel free to direct any feedback/queries to myself via the list.

 

Project Name: Promotion of FOSS in undergraduate Computer Science, Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University of Newcastle 

 

Chief Investigator: Dr. Mark Wallis, Distributed Computing Research Group, University of Newcastle (mark.wallis at newcastle.edu.au <mailto:mark.wallis at newcastle.edu.au> )

 

Project Aim/Description:

 

The University of Newcastle currently offers under-graduate Bachelor degrees in Computer Science, Information Technology and Software Engineering. Courses from these degrees are taught from the School of Electrical Engineering and Computing across our Callaghan (Newcastle), Central Coast and Singapore campuses.

 

There is currently a low level of FOSS software promotion within the course material used to teach these degrees. Worked examples, workshops and tutorial material is strongly Microsoft Windows focused, primarily due to this being the operating system installed in all computer labs at the university. The effect is that students feel less inclined to explore FOSS in UON courses such as Programming, Operating Systems, Compiler Design and Computer Networks.

 

We propose to undertake a review of the course material being presented in the first 2 years of the above degrees. The review will identify all worked examples, tutorials and workshops which are presenting closed-sourced centric solutions. The outcome of this review will be a course development plan which aims to develop alternative or extended course material that covers alternate FOSS options available to students. The project will hire one undergraduate student to work with the chief investigator to develop the new course content during 2017, ready for students in 2018.

 

Examples of the course material that will be generated includes:

*	Worked-examples under Linux, rather than Microsoft Windows (for example, instructions showing students how to install and configure a compiler)
*	Short 5-minute video?s presenting FOSS alternatives to tools presented in the primary course material 
*	Short 5?minute video?s providing context of how the course relates to Open Source (for example, a case study of Linux Kernel development to be presented during the Operating Systems course) 

 

To comply with pre-existing copyright, any existing course material which is expanded to include content generated by this grant will remain under the existing copyright terms. Any new content, such as the video presentations, will be released under a Creative Commons license.

 

The primary aim is to promote FOSS earlier in undergraduate degree?s to ensure that students graduate with an increased knowledge of the FOSS environment.

 

Project Milestones:

 

*	Milestone 1 - Draft of the course development plan distributed to UON stakeholders (see over) ? 1 June 2017
*	Milestone 2 - Final course development plan for signoff by UON stakeholders ? 1 July 2017
*	Milestone 3 - Draft material presented to Course Co-ordinators for review ? 1 October 2017
*	Milestone 4 ? Final material presented to Course Co-ordinators for signoff ? 1 November 2017

 

 

Project Review/Success:

 

Between Milestone 3 and Milestone 4 the course material will be iteratively developed with UON students who have previously completed the target courses. Focus groups will be run with these students, asking them to review the material and then complete a short questionnaire that will collect metrics on the following:

 

*	The quality of the material
*	The relevance of the material to the course and their degree
*	Whether they believe the material will encourage them to personally investigate FOSS in more detail

 

The results of this survey will be anonymous and used to gauge the success of the project.

Pending approval by the UoN Ethics committee, these results will be made available and be used to gauge the success of the project.

 

Project Costs:

 

The chief investigator will provide in-kind support of time and expertise for the management of the grant and the co-development of new course material. An undergraduate student will be hired on a casual basis to co-develop the course material and manage the testing/feedback process.

 

An estimated 22 weeks at 5 hours per week will be allocated to the undergraduate student. The undergraduate student will be employed at HEW 5.1 casual rate of $43.77 per hour. With UON on-costs (16.2%) and indirect research costs (25%) this equates to a total of $6994.

 

We are requesting a grant of $7000 to cover these costs. There will be no additional costs associated with the project. All costs will be incurred by the 30th September 2017 as per grant requirements.

 

Project Management and Reporting:

 

The UON already has in place a reporting structure for all grants. Mid-way and final written reports will be provided to the Linux Australia Council.

 

Project Team:

 

The chief investigator for this project is Dr Mark Wallis. Mark is a member of Linux Australia and the Distributed Computing Research Group at UON and has been involved in teaching since 2010. Mark has been involved in various FOSS projects over the years, including the Newcastle Linux Users Group and kernel driver development for the Ralink 802.11 wireless chipset. Mark will be the key person responsible for this project.

 

The undergraduate student will be hired from our pool of undergraduates that we use for teaching tutorials and workshops. 

 

Key stakeholders for this project include Course Co-ordinators who are responsible for delivery of the courses, Program Convenors who are responsible for each degrees, the Deputy HOS(Academic), Head of School, the School Industrial Advisory Board and student representatives. 

 

 

Regards,

Mark.

===============================

Dr. Mark Wallis (Associate Lecturer)

 

School of Electrical Engineering and Computing

Faculty of Engineering and Built Environment

The University of Newcastle, Callaghan, 2308, NSW

AUSTRALIA

 

Webpage:

https://www.newcastle.edu.au/profile/mark-wallis

 

 

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From bpa at iss.net.au  Mon Apr  3 12:57:17 2017
From: bpa at iss.net.au (Brenda Aynsley)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 12:27:17 +0930
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in
 undergraduate Computer Science,
 Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University of
 Newcastle
In-Reply-To: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
References: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
Message-ID: <2090a398-66d9-5e50-3ccb-3b7554272364@iss.net.au>

On 03/04/17 12:06, Mark Wallis wrote:
>
> Hello everyone.
>
> Please find below a grant application for your consideration. Please 
> feel free to direct any feedback/queries to myself via the list.
>
> *Project Name*: Promotion of FOSS in undergraduate Computer Science, 
> Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the 
> University of Newcastle
>
> *Chief Investigator: *Dr. Mark Wallis, Distributed Computing Research 
> Group, University of Newcastle (mark.wallis at newcastle.edu.au)
>
> *Project Aim/Description:*
>
> **
>
> The University of Newcastle currently offers under-graduate Bachelor 
> degrees in Computer Science, Information Technology and Software 
> Engineering. Courses from these degrees are taught from the School of 
> Electrical Engineering and Computing across our Callaghan (Newcastle), 
> Central Coast and Singapore campuses.
>
> There is currently a low level of FOSS software promotion within the 
> course material used to teach these degrees. Worked examples, 
> workshops and tutorial material is strongly Microsoft Windows focused, 
> primarily due to this being the operating system installed in all 
> computer labs at the university. The effect is that students feel less 
> inclined to explore FOSS in UON courses such as Programming, Operating 
> Systems, Compiler Design and Computer Networks.
>
> We propose to undertake a review of the course material being 
> presented in the first 2 years of the above degrees. The review will 
> identify all worked examples, tutorials and workshops which are 
> presenting closed-sourced centric solutions. The outcome of this 
> review will be a course development plan which aims to develop 
> alternative or extended course material that covers alternate FOSS 
> options available to students. The project will hire one undergraduate 
> student to work with the chief investigator to develop the new course 
> content during 2017, ready for students in 2018.
>
> Examples of the course material that will be generated includes:
>
>   * Worked-examples under Linux, rather than Microsoft Windows (for
>     example, instructions showing students how to install and
>     configure a compiler)
>   * Short 5-minute video?s presenting FOSS alternatives to tools
>     presented in the primary course material
>   * Short 5?minute video?s providing context of how the course relates
>     to Open Source (for example, a case study of Linux Kernel
>     development to be presented during the Operating Systems course)
>
> To comply with pre-existing copyright, any existing course material 
> which is expanded to include content generated by this grant will 
> remain under the existing copyright terms. Any new content, such as 
> the video presentations, will be released under a Creative Commons 
> license.
>
> The primary aim is to promote FOSS earlier in undergraduate degree?s 
> to ensure that students graduate with an increased knowledge of the 
> FOSS environment.
>
> *Project Milestones:*
>
> **
>
>   * Milestone 1 - Draft of the course development plan distributed to
>     UON stakeholders (see over) ? 1 June 2017
>   * Milestone 2 - Final course development plan for signoff by UON
>     stakeholders ? 1 July 2017
>   * Milestone 3 - Draft material presented to Course Co-ordinators for
>     review ? 1 October 2017
>   * Milestone 4 ? Final material presented to Course Co-ordinators for
>     signoff ? 1 November 2017
>
> **
>
> *Project Review/Success:*
>
> Between Milestone 3 and Milestone 4 the course material will be 
> iteratively developed with UON students who have previously completed 
> the target courses. Focus groups will be run with these students, 
> asking them to review the material and then complete a short 
> questionnaire that will collect metrics on the following:
>
>   * The quality of the material
>   * The relevance of the material to the course and their degree
>   * Whether they believe the material will encourage them to
>     personally investigate FOSS in more detail
>
> The results of this survey will be anonymous and used to gauge the 
> success of the project.
>
> Pending approval by the UoN Ethics committee, these results will be 
> made available and be used to gauge the success of the project.
>
> *Project Costs:*
>
> **
>
> The chief investigator will provide in-kind support of time and 
> expertise for the management of the grant and the co-development of 
> new course material. An undergraduate student will be hired on a 
> casual basis to co-develop the course material and manage the 
> testing/feedback process.
>
> An estimated 22 weeks at 5 hours per week will be allocated to the 
> undergraduate student. The undergraduate student will be employed at 
> HEW 5.1 casual rate of $43.77 per hour. With UON on-costs (16.2%) and 
> indirect research costs (25%) this equates to a total of $6994.
>
> We are requesting a grant of $7000 to cover these costs. There will be 
> no additional costs associated with the project. All costs will be 
> incurred by the 30^th September 2017 as per grant requirements.
>
> *Project Management and Reporting:*
>
> **
>
> The UON already has in place a reporting structure for all grants. 
> Mid-way and final written reports will be provided to the Linux 
> Australia Council.
>
> *Project Team:*
>
> **
>
> The chief investigator for this project is Dr Mark Wallis. Mark is a 
> member of Linux Australia and the Distributed Computing Research Group 
> at UON and has been involved in teaching since 2010. Mark has been 
> involved in various FOSS projects over the years, including the 
> Newcastle Linux Users Group and kernel driver development for the 
> Ralink 802.11 wireless chipset. Mark will be the key person 
> responsible for this project.
>
> The undergraduate student will be hired from our pool of 
> undergraduates that we use for teaching tutorials and workshops.
>
> Key stakeholders for this project include Course Co-ordinators who are 
> responsible for delivery of the courses, Program Convenors who are 
> responsible for each degrees, the Deputy HOS(Academic), Head of 
> School, the School Industrial Advisory Board and student representatives.
>
>

I like the notion put forward by Mark.

How certain are we that these resources will not sit on a shelf and 
gather dust?  That is what likelihood is there that students will use  
them or be given the opportunity to use them?

cheers

brenda

-- 
Brenda Aynsley OAM, FACS CP, ACS Honorary Life Member
ACS Immediate Past President 2016 & 2017
Chair IFIP International Professional Practice Partnership (IP3) 2011-17
Senior Vice President, Professions Australia 2015-2016

ACS Partnering for Success

Mobile:+61(0)412 662 988 || Phone:+61(0)8 7127 0107
Skype/Yahoo/Twitter: baynsley
Mobile when I am out of Australia: +61(0)489 958 851

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From markwalkom at gmail.com  Mon Apr  3 13:22:56 2017
From: markwalkom at gmail.com (Mark Walkom)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 13:22:56 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in
 undergraduate Computer Science,
 Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University of
 Newcastle
In-Reply-To: <2090a398-66d9-5e50-3ccb-3b7554272364@iss.net.au>
References: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
 <2090a398-66d9-5e50-3ccb-3b7554272364@iss.net.au>
Message-ID: <CAEYi1X9hBuSDpFM3pGVtezGnYB=0j+5ecj9kO1xxb5gsLM6-mg@mail.gmail.com>

G'Day Mark,
Having these as open sourced materials for the larger community is a
massive value add for your proposal. What is the possibility of that
happening from your perspective?

On 3 April 2017 at 12:57, Brenda Aynsley <bpa at iss.net.au> wrote:

> On 03/04/17 12:06, Mark Wallis wrote:
>
> Hello everyone.
>
>
>
> Please find below a grant application for your consideration. Please feel
> free to direct any feedback/queries to myself via the list.
>
>
>
> *Project Name*: Promotion of FOSS in undergraduate Computer Science,
> Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University
> of Newcastle
>
>
>
> *Chief Investigator: *Dr. Mark Wallis, Distributed Computing Research
> Group, University of Newcastle (mark.wallis at newcastle.edu.au)
>
>
>
> *Project Aim/Description:*
>
>
>
> The University of Newcastle currently offers under-graduate Bachelor
> degrees in Computer Science, Information Technology and Software
> Engineering. Courses from these degrees are taught from the School of
> Electrical Engineering and Computing across our Callaghan (Newcastle),
> Central Coast and Singapore campuses.
>
>
>
> There is currently a low level of FOSS software promotion within the
> course material used to teach these degrees. Worked examples, workshops and
> tutorial material is strongly Microsoft Windows focused, primarily due to
> this being the operating system installed in all computer labs at the
> university. The effect is that students feel less inclined to explore FOSS
> in UON courses such as Programming, Operating Systems, Compiler Design and
> Computer Networks.
>
>
>
> We propose to undertake a review of the course material being presented in
> the first 2 years of the above degrees. The review will identify all worked
> examples, tutorials and workshops which are presenting closed-sourced
> centric solutions. The outcome of this review will be a course development
> plan which aims to develop alternative or extended course material that
> covers alternate FOSS options available to students. The project will hire
> one undergraduate student to work with the chief investigator to develop
> the new course content during 2017, ready for students in 2018.
>
>
>
> Examples of the course material that will be generated includes:
>
>    - Worked-examples under Linux, rather than Microsoft Windows (for
>    example, instructions showing students how to install and configure a
>    compiler)
>    - Short 5-minute video?s presenting FOSS alternatives to tools
>    presented in the primary course material
>    - Short 5?minute video?s providing context of how the course relates
>    to Open Source (for example, a case study of Linux Kernel development to be
>    presented during the Operating Systems course)
>
>
>
> To comply with pre-existing copyright, any existing course material which
> is expanded to include content generated by this grant will remain under
> the existing copyright terms. Any new content, such as the video
> presentations, will be released under a Creative Commons license.
>
>
>
> The primary aim is to promote FOSS earlier in undergraduate degree?s to
> ensure that students graduate with an increased knowledge of the FOSS
> environment.
>
>
>
> *Project Milestones:*
>
>
>
>    - Milestone 1 - Draft of the course development plan distributed to
>    UON stakeholders (see over) ? 1 June 2017
>    - Milestone 2 - Final course development plan for signoff by UON
>    stakeholders ? 1 July 2017
>    - Milestone 3 - Draft material presented to Course Co-ordinators for
>    review ? 1 October 2017
>    - Milestone 4 ? Final material presented to Course Co-ordinators for
>    signoff ? 1 November 2017
>
>
>
>
>
> *Project Review/Success:*
>
>
>
> Between Milestone 3 and Milestone 4 the course material will be
> iteratively developed with UON students who have previously completed the
> target courses. Focus groups will be run with these students, asking them
> to review the material and then complete a short questionnaire that will
> collect metrics on the following:
>
>
>
>    - The quality of the material
>    - The relevance of the material to the course and their degree
>    - Whether they believe the material will encourage them to personally
>    investigate FOSS in more detail
>
>
>
> The results of this survey will be anonymous and used to gauge the success
> of the project.
>
> Pending approval by the UoN Ethics committee, these results will be made
> available and be used to gauge the success of the project.
>
>
>
> *Project Costs:*
>
>
>
> The chief investigator will provide in-kind support of time and expertise
> for the management of the grant and the co-development of new course
> material. An undergraduate student will be hired on a casual basis to
> co-develop the course material and manage the testing/feedback process.
>
>
>
> An estimated 22 weeks at 5 hours per week will be allocated to the
> undergraduate student. The undergraduate student will be employed at HEW
> 5.1 casual rate of $43.77 per hour. With UON on-costs (16.2%) and indirect
> research costs (25%) this equates to a total of $6994.
>
>
>
> We are requesting a grant of $7000 to cover these costs. There will be no
> additional costs associated with the project. All costs will be incurred by
> the 30th September 2017 as per grant requirements.
>
>
>
> *Project Management and Reporting:*
>
>
>
> The UON already has in place a reporting structure for all grants. Mid-way
> and final written reports will be provided to the Linux Australia Council.
>
>
>
> *Project Team:*
>
>
>
> The chief investigator for this project is Dr Mark Wallis. Mark is a
> member of Linux Australia and the Distributed Computing Research Group at
> UON and has been involved in teaching since 2010. Mark has been involved in
> various FOSS projects over the years, including the Newcastle Linux Users
> Group and kernel driver development for the Ralink 802.11 wireless chipset.
> Mark will be the key person responsible for this project.
>
>
>
> The undergraduate student will be hired from our pool of undergraduates
> that we use for teaching tutorials and workshops.
>
>
>
> Key stakeholders for this project include Course Co-ordinators who are
> responsible for delivery of the courses, Program Convenors who are
> responsible for each degrees, the Deputy HOS(Academic), Head of School, the
> School Industrial Advisory Board and student representatives.
>
>
>
>
> I like the notion put forward by Mark.
>
> How certain are we that these resources will not sit on a shelf and gather
> dust?  That is what likelihood is there that students will use  them or be
> given the opportunity to use them?
>
> cheers
>
> brenda
>
> --
> Brenda Aynsley OAM, FACS CP, ACS Honorary Life Member
> ACS Immediate Past President 2016 & 2017
> Chair IFIP International Professional Practice Partnership (IP3) 2011-17
> Senior Vice President, Professions Australia 2015-2016
>
> ACS Partnering for Success
>
> Mobile:+61(0)412 662 988 <+61%20412%20662%20988> || Phone:+61(0)8 7127 0107 <+61%208%207127%200107>
> Skype/Yahoo/Twitter: baynsley
> Mobile when I am out of Australia: +61(0)489 958 851 <+61%20489%20958%20851>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> linux-aus mailing list
> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au
> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus
>
>
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From mark.wallis at newcastle.edu.au  Mon Apr  3 13:25:50 2017
From: mark.wallis at newcastle.edu.au (Mark Wallis)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 03:25:50 +0000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in
 undergraduate Computer Science,
 Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University of
 Newcastle
In-Reply-To: <2090a398-66d9-5e50-3ccb-3b7554272364@iss.net.au>
References: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
 <2090a398-66d9-5e50-3ccb-3b7554272364@iss.net.au>
Message-ID: <D14BE4D4-8779-447E-AC20-530DEC701009@newcastle.edu.au>

Hi Brenda,

Thank you for the feedback.

> On 3 Apr 2017, at 12:57 pm, Brenda Aynsley <bpa at iss.net.au> wrote:
> 
> How certain are we that these resources will not sit on a shelf and gather dust?  That is what likelihood is there that students will use  them or be given the opportunity to use them?
> 

In regards to resource use, the team will work with the various lecturers to ensure the content is included in the 2018 courses. Courses are ?cloned? from year to year, which will ensure the material will make it into the 2019 courses and beyond (unless the lecturer at the time specifically removes the content for some reason).

As to the likelihood of students using the material, what I?m aiming to achieve is to remove the current barrier of ?oh, they have only provided Windows examples, I guess that is what I have to use?. I imagine the content will primarily be consumed by students that already have a passing interest in FOSS, but have previously been put-off by lack of course content. This is based on feedback I?ve been provided by students over the past 7 years teaching at UoN.

Kind Regards,

Regards,
Mark.
===============================
Dr. Mark Wallis (Associate Lecturer)
 
School of Electrical Engineering and Computing
Faculty of Engineering and Built Environment
The University of Newcastle, Callaghan, 2308, NSW
AUSTRALIA
 
Webpage:
https://www.newcastle.edu.au/profile/mark-wallis

From mark.wallis at newcastle.edu.au  Mon Apr  3 13:25:48 2017
From: mark.wallis at newcastle.edu.au (Mark Wallis)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 03:25:48 +0000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in
 undergraduate Computer Science,
 Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University of
 Newcastle
In-Reply-To: <007601d2ac25$d2e7f4f0$78b7ded0$@adam.com.au>
References: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
 <007601d2ac25$d2e7f4f0$78b7ded0$@adam.com.au>
Message-ID: <CB80C10A-2BE8-4D14-84A7-BBFE4686FE23@newcastle.edu.au>

Hi David,

> On 3 Apr 2017, at 12:55 pm, David Lloyd <lloy0076 at adam.com.au> wrote:
>  
> What do you want to do?

To summarise the project aim, we are looking to update course material for our Comp Sci/IT/Soft Eng courses to ensure that we aren?t only providing students closed-source options. 

Perhaps a couple of examples would help clarify further.

1. workshops where we only provide steps that work on the Windows platform. The grant would pay an undergraduate student to work with me to ensure that an alternate workshop is create for students that want to complete that work under Linux.

2. assignments where we ask students to draw diagrams using software only available on Windows - for example UML diagrams. We would research and provide documentation showing students some FOSS alternates to that software.

3 course such as our Operating Systems course provides a lot of theory, but not a lot of practical demonstration. This grant would pay for an undergrad to work with me to present a case study of how some of that theory is implemented in the Linux kernel.

I hope that helps clarify.

Kind Regards,

Regards,
Mark.
===============================
Dr. Mark Wallis (Associate Lecturer)
 
School of Electrical Engineering and Computing
Faculty of Engineering and Built Environment
The University of Newcastle, Callaghan, 2308, NSW
AUSTRALIA
 
Webpage:
https://www.newcastle.edu.au/profile/mark-wallis

From mark.wallis at newcastle.edu.au  Mon Apr  3 13:30:38 2017
From: mark.wallis at newcastle.edu.au (Mark Wallis)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 03:30:38 +0000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in
 undergraduate Computer Science,
 Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University of
 Newcastle
In-Reply-To: <CAEYi1X9hBuSDpFM3pGVtezGnYB=0j+5ecj9kO1xxb5gsLM6-mg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
 <2090a398-66d9-5e50-3ccb-3b7554272364@iss.net.au>
 <CAEYi1X9hBuSDpFM3pGVtezGnYB=0j+5ecj9kO1xxb5gsLM6-mg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DCB35C31-3978-4593-A082-600C6B9CDEA9@newcastle.edu.au>

Hi Mark,

> On 3 Apr 2017, at 1:22 pm, Mark Walkom <markwalkom at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Having these as open sourced materials for the larger community is a massive value add for your proposal. What is the possibility of that happening from your perspective?

I?ll admit there are complexities here. In the proposal I?ve committed to ensuring that any brand-new content we generate, for example, video?s we might record that present FOSS-centric case studies for students, will be released under a Creative Commons license.

The problem lies around any time where we take existing lecture material and ?update? it to provide either FOSS-centric points of view or alternate steps for the students to work through. All existing lecture material is under a closed copyright by UoN. In that case, I won?t be able to release this ?updated? material to the community.

We will always endeavour to generate ?new? content where we can so it can be released to the community. We also have to balance this though by ensuring the content ?fits? into the existing course flow. If it doesn?t, then there is an increased likelihood that it won?t be consumed by the students.


Kind Regards,

Regards,
Mark.
===============================
Dr. Mark Wallis (Associate Lecturer)

School of Electrical Engineering and Computing
Faculty of Engineering and Built Environment
The University of Newcastle, Callaghan, 2308, NSW
AUSTRALIA

Webpage:
https://www.newcastle.edu.au/profile/mark-wallis

From jamezpolley at gmail.com  Mon Apr  3 14:07:22 2017
From: jamezpolley at gmail.com (James Polley)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 14:07:22 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in
 undergraduate Computer Science,
 Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University of
 Newcastle
In-Reply-To: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
References: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
Message-ID: <CAA+GJgT_BHgt+cjzks-NSwrPi7Ocm+6i9QdyUPaJPCvEZ7GQ6g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mark,

I?m very much in favour of the general idea of providing alternative
instructions for those students who want them. It seems to me that at its
most basic, the mere fact that two procedures with different sets of
tooling are provided can help students to understand that the tool they are
using is *a* tool, not the only tool; and can help them think at more
abstract level - they?re exposed to the idea that the same outcome can
happen with different sets of tools; the outcome isn?t innately tied to the
tools

I?m even more in favour when one of the alternatives is a FOSS alternative,
as it gives the students an awareness that closed-source development models
aren?t the only things available.

I also like the fact that this proposal includes measures to look at the
success of the project. If this comes off well, this should mean that this
grant would not only provide a set of material for one set of students; it
gives us data to help decide whether future similar grants are likely to be
good value for money.

Before I say that I?m outright in favour of this bid being accepted though,
I have a few questions:

* Are the current course materials accessible to me (as a non-UoN student)
online? I ask this for two reasons; one is that if they are, I?d like to
take a look at them to get more of an idea of what materials would be
produced by this grant. But secondly, I ask because I?ve often found that
publicly accessible course materials and procedures from universities, once
they get indexed by search engines, become helpful to a much wider range of
people than the students they?re aimed at. I?m wondering if the new
materials produced here would be publicly readable even if they can?t be
copied; and I?m using the accessibility of the current materials as a proxy
for that question.

* Are you aware of any similar research that has already been done along
the lines of your proposed Project Review/Success survey? I?m taking it for
granted that you the method you have proposed (focus group, review
material, short questionnaire) is sound; I?m specifically wondering if
you?re aware of anyone who has already attempted something similar to this
process and has obtained similar data.

Thanks for your interest in the grant, and thanks for such a detailed
proposal (and such prompt responses to the questions you?ve already
received)

On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 12:36 PM, Mark Wallis <mark.wallis at newcastle.edu.au>
wrote:

> Hello everyone.
>
>
>
> Please find below a grant application for your consideration. Please feel
> free to direct any feedback/queries to myself via the list.
>
>
>
> *Project Name*: Promotion of FOSS in undergraduate Computer Science,
> Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University
> of Newcastle
>
>
>
> *Chief Investigator: *Dr. Mark Wallis, Distributed Computing Research
> Group, University of Newcastle (mark.wallis at newcastle.edu.au)
>
>
>
> *Project Aim/Description:*
>
>
>
> The University of Newcastle currently offers under-graduate Bachelor
> degrees in Computer Science, Information Technology and Software
> Engineering. Courses from these degrees are taught from the School of
> Electrical Engineering and Computing across our Callaghan (Newcastle),
> Central Coast and Singapore campuses.
>
>
>
> There is currently a low level of FOSS software promotion within the
> course material used to teach these degrees. Worked examples, workshops and
> tutorial material is strongly Microsoft Windows focused, primarily due to
> this being the operating system installed in all computer labs at the
> university. The effect is that students feel less inclined to explore FOSS
> in UON courses such as Programming, Operating Systems, Compiler Design and
> Computer Networks.
>
>
>
> We propose to undertake a review of the course material being presented in
> the first 2 years of the above degrees. The review will identify all worked
> examples, tutorials and workshops which are presenting closed-sourced
> centric solutions. The outcome of this review will be a course development
> plan which aims to develop alternative or extended course material that
> covers alternate FOSS options available to students. The project will hire
> one undergraduate student to work with the chief investigator to develop
> the new course content during 2017, ready for students in 2018.
>
>
>
> Examples of the course material that will be generated includes:
>
>    - Worked-examples under Linux, rather than Microsoft Windows (for
>    example, instructions showing students how to install and configure a
>    compiler)
>    - Short 5-minute video?s presenting FOSS alternatives to tools
>    presented in the primary course material
>    - Short 5?minute video?s providing context of how the course relates
>    to Open Source (for example, a case study of Linux Kernel development to be
>    presented during the Operating Systems course)
>
>
>
> To comply with pre-existing copyright, any existing course material which
> is expanded to include content generated by this grant will remain under
> the existing copyright terms. Any new content, such as the video
> presentations, will be released under a Creative Commons license.
>
>
>
> The primary aim is to promote FOSS earlier in undergraduate degree?s to
> ensure that students graduate with an increased knowledge of the FOSS
> environment.
>
>
>
> *Project Milestones:*
>
>
>
>    - Milestone 1 - Draft of the course development plan distributed to
>    UON stakeholders (see over) ? 1 June 2017
>    - Milestone 2 - Final course development plan for signoff by UON
>    stakeholders ? 1 July 2017
>    - Milestone 3 - Draft material presented to Course Co-ordinators for
>    review ? 1 October 2017
>    - Milestone 4 ? Final material presented to Course Co-ordinators for
>    signoff ? 1 November 2017
>
>
>
>
>
> *Project Review/Success:*
>
>
>
> Between Milestone 3 and Milestone 4 the course material will be
> iteratively developed with UON students who have previously completed the
> target courses. Focus groups will be run with these students, asking them
> to review the material and then complete a short questionnaire that will
> collect metrics on the following:
>
>
>
>    - The quality of the material
>    - The relevance of the material to the course and their degree
>    - Whether they believe the material will encourage them to personally
>    investigate FOSS in more detail
>
>
>
> The results of this survey will be anonymous and used to gauge the success
> of the project.
>
> Pending approval by the UoN Ethics committee, these results will be made
> available and be used to gauge the success of the project.
>
>
>
> *Project Costs:*
>
>
>
> The chief investigator will provide in-kind support of time and expertise
> for the management of the grant and the co-development of new course
> material. An undergraduate student will be hired on a casual basis to
> co-develop the course material and manage the testing/feedback process.
>
>
>
> An estimated 22 weeks at 5 hours per week will be allocated to the
> undergraduate student. The undergraduate student will be employed at HEW
> 5.1 casual rate of $43.77 per hour. With UON on-costs (16.2%) and indirect
> research costs (25%) this equates to a total of $6994.
>
>
>
> We are requesting a grant of $7000 to cover these costs. There will be no
> additional costs associated with the project. All costs will be incurred by
> the 30th September 2017 as per grant requirements.
>
>
>
> *Project Management and Reporting:*
>
>
>
> The UON already has in place a reporting structure for all grants. Mid-way
> and final written reports will be provided to the Linux Australia Council.
>
>
>
> *Project Team:*
>
>
>
> The chief investigator for this project is Dr Mark Wallis. Mark is a
> member of Linux Australia and the Distributed Computing Research Group at
> UON and has been involved in teaching since 2010. Mark has been involved in
> various FOSS projects over the years, including the Newcastle Linux Users
> Group and kernel driver development for the Ralink 802.11 wireless chipset.
> Mark will be the key person responsible for this project.
>
>
>
> The undergraduate student will be hired from our pool of undergraduates
> that we use for teaching tutorials and workshops.
>
>
>
> Key stakeholders for this project include Course Co-ordinators who are
> responsible for delivery of the courses, Program Convenors who are
> responsible for each degrees, the Deputy HOS(Academic), Head of School, the
> School Industrial Advisory Board and student representatives.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Mark.
>
> ===============================
>
> Dr. Mark Wallis (Associate Lecturer)
>
>
>
> School of Electrical Engineering and Computing
>
> Faculty of Engineering and Built Environment
>
> The University of Newcastle, Callaghan, 2308, NSW
>
> AUSTRALIA
>
>
>
> Webpage:
>
> *https://www.newcastle.edu.au/profile/mark-wallis
> <https://www.newcastle.edu.au/profile/mark-wallis>*
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> linux-aus mailing list
> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au
> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus
>
>
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From mark.wallis at newcastle.edu.au  Mon Apr  3 14:19:26 2017
From: mark.wallis at newcastle.edu.au (Mark Wallis)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 04:19:26 +0000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in
 undergraduate Computer Science,
 Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University of
 Newcastle
In-Reply-To: <CAA+GJgT_BHgt+cjzks-NSwrPi7Ocm+6i9QdyUPaJPCvEZ7GQ6g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
 <CAA+GJgT_BHgt+cjzks-NSwrPi7Ocm+6i9QdyUPaJPCvEZ7GQ6g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C8BF1C3E-FDCD-4BA1-9017-613D3A20E721@newcastle.edu.au>

Hi James

Thanks for your feedback !

> On 3 Apr 2017, at 2:07 pm, James Polley <jamezpolley at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> * Are the current course materials accessible to me (as a non-UoN student) online? I ask this for two reasons; one is that if they are, I?d like to take a look at them to get more of an idea of what materials would be produced by this grant. But secondly, I ask because I?ve often found that publicly accessible course materials and procedures from universities, once they get indexed by search engines, become helpful to a much wider range of people than the students they?re aimed at. I?m wondering if the new materials produced here would be publicly readable even if they can?t be copied; and I?m using the accessibility of the current materials as a proxy for that question.

I?m afraid not. UoN does not currently promote a policy of making their course material publicly available. As for the content I propose to release under a CC license, I intend to host that content outside of the standard UoN course tools and then link students to it. For example, we may upload the videos we record to YouTube, and then just link students to that content. That way - we ensure the material is publicly available.

> * Are you aware of any similar research that has already been done along the lines of your proposed Project Review/Success survey? I?m taking it for granted that you the method you have proposed (focus group, review material, short questionnaire) is sound; I?m specifically wondering if you?re aware of anyone who has already attempted something similar to this process and has obtained similar data.

We have based this approach on our existing course review processes. Courses taught at UoN always go through student review process at the end of the semester where we ask the students to complete a short questionnaire that gives them the opportunity to provide us feedback on how we can improve the course content. I intend to essentially re-use that process to have students who have previously completed the courses provide feedback on how much better they thought the course would be if the updated/new content existed. That?s the plan anyway - I?ll admit that this may alter as the grant progresses as we may need to go through the UoN Ethics committee if we wish to collect such data and publish it. 

Regards,
Mark.
===============================
Dr. Mark Wallis (Associate Lecturer)
 
School of Electrical Engineering and Computing
Faculty of Engineering and Built Environment
The University of Newcastle, Callaghan, 2308, NSW
AUSTRALIA
 
Webpage:
https://www.newcastle.edu.au/profile/mark-wallis

From andrew at donnellan.id.au  Mon Apr  3 14:20:24 2017
From: andrew at donnellan.id.au (Andrew Donnellan)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 14:20:24 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in
 undergraduate Computer Science,
 Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University of
 Newcastle
In-Reply-To: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
References: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
Message-ID: <CALn+=Jo4+3Kk2n4th57-pRQsaJaC9uHbAMNGzF8f8afkBruMSQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mark,

On 3 April 2017 at 12:36, Mark Wallis <mark.wallis at newcastle.edu.au> wrote:
> Project Name: Promotion of FOSS in undergraduate Computer Science,
> Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University of
> Newcastle

This sounds like a fantastic initiative. (As a graduate of the ANU,
where our computer science labs run Linux and will probably continue
to run Linux at least until our current sysadmins die... it honestly
confuses me when I remember this isn't the case at all Australian
universities...)

Overall I think this grant request seems pretty reasonable and I'm
supportive of it.

> Project Review/Success:
>
>
>
> Between Milestone 3 and Milestone 4 the course material will be iteratively
> developed with UON students who have previously completed the target
> courses. Focus groups will be run with these students, asking them to review
> the material and then complete a short questionnaire that will collect
> metrics on the following:
>
>
>
> The quality of the material
> The relevance of the material to the course and their degree
> Whether they believe the material will encourage them to personally
> investigate FOSS in more detail
>
>
>
> The results of this survey will be anonymous and used to gauge the success
> of the project.
>
> Pending approval by the UoN Ethics committee, these results will be made
> available and be used to gauge the success of the project.

Any chance of the deliverable also including a report on the success
of the overall process + views of course academics involved? I think
that would be useful for anyone attempting a similar project at other
institutions.


-- 
Andrew Donnellan
http://andrew.donnellan.id.au         andrew at donnellan.id.au

From mark.wallis at newcastle.edu.au  Mon Apr  3 14:38:42 2017
From: mark.wallis at newcastle.edu.au (Mark Wallis)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 04:38:42 +0000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in
 undergraduate Computer Science,
 Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University of
 Newcastle
In-Reply-To: <CALn+=Jo4+3Kk2n4th57-pRQsaJaC9uHbAMNGzF8f8afkBruMSQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
 <CALn+=Jo4+3Kk2n4th57-pRQsaJaC9uHbAMNGzF8f8afkBruMSQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F6B1967C-A986-433D-BF5B-5BA655F9EB68@newcastle.edu.au>

Thank you for your feedback Andrew.

> On 3 Apr 2017, at 2:20 pm, Andrew Donnellan <andrew at donnellan.id.au> wrote:
> 
> Any chance of the deliverable also including a report on the success
> of the overall process + views of course academics involved? I think
> that would be useful for anyone attempting a similar project at other
> institutions.

Absolutely. One of the final deliverables is a ?final written report? that will summarise the project outputs and provide our views on its success. We will then ask the wider LA community for their views on the success of the project and where we could have done better. I believe this will be valuable for any other institutions in the future that might want to tackle something similar.


Regards,
Mark.
===============================
Dr. Mark Wallis (Associate Lecturer)
 
School of Electrical Engineering and Computing
Faculty of Engineering and Built Environment
The University of Newcastle, Callaghan, 2308, NSW
AUSTRALIA
 
Webpage:
https://www.newcastle.edu.au/profile/mark-wallis

From paul2471 at gmail.com  Mon Apr  3 15:00:09 2017
From: paul2471 at gmail.com (Paul W Parker)
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2017 15:00:09 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in
 undergraduate Computer Science,
 Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University of
 Newcastle
References: <mailman.2693.1491189822.3022.linux-aus@lists.linux.org.au>
Message-ID: <1491195609.12089.35.camel@gmail.com>

Might this be adapted and applied as a general introduction towards
basic understanding for linux and other FOSS software amongst other
educators and businesses ??

Education mostly appears to remain Microsoft Windows focused as it
appears it remains operating system installed and used in the majority
of education facilities.?

May this course be applied as in-service education to introduce other
educators to ensure a basic understanding, encouraging them to explore
and promote using FOSS within their education facilities ??

Paul W Parker?



From web at polynate.net  Mon Apr  3 15:32:55 2017
From: web at polynate.net (Nathan Bailey)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 15:32:55 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in
 undergraduate Computer Science,
 Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University of
 Newcastle
Message-ID: <CAKwoNTvTgeX1a-itV66eHsz3CpnAomDL0UwTSvXeaZc5UbXCWg@mail.gmail.com>

Good thought Paul, although that may be ambitious (the needs of undergrad
CS students are probably a lot more specific than general educational
contexts), but one thing I'd like to see is a potential collaboration with
another university so that more than one pool of students benefit from this.

ie. this is a commendable effort and likely to bear fruit but we wouldn't
want to have to do 20+ of them for all the other MS Windows-oriented CS
schools in AU (guessing that half are Windows and half Linux).

Mark, is there any chance you could collaborate on this with another uni?
Universities tend to be far more understanding of sharing coursework with
each other than with the general public, so there may be some opportunity
to collaborate on the "closed" bits as well as the open bits.

Note that I do NOT recommend trying to get many universities collaborating
(condemning this to a series of academic committees!) but one other CS
school would be good value.
-N

On 3 April 2017 at 15:00, Paul W Parker <paul2471 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Might this be adapted and applied as a general introduction towards
> basic understanding for linux and other FOSS software amongst other
> educators and businesses ?
>
> Education mostly appears to remain Microsoft Windows focused as it
> appears it remains operating system installed and used in the majority
> of education facilities.
>
> May this course be applied as in-service education to introduce other
> educators to ensure a basic understanding, encouraging them to explore
> and promote using FOSS within their education facilities ?
>
> Paul W Parker
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> linux-aus mailing list
> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au
> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus
>
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From mark.wallis at newcastle.edu.au  Mon Apr  3 15:49:14 2017
From: mark.wallis at newcastle.edu.au (Mark Wallis)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 05:49:14 +0000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in
 undergraduate Computer Science,
 Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University of
 Newcastle
In-Reply-To: <CAKwoNTvTgeX1a-itV66eHsz3CpnAomDL0UwTSvXeaZc5UbXCWg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKwoNTvTgeX1a-itV66eHsz3CpnAomDL0UwTSvXeaZc5UbXCWg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5427CC87-6124-4F04-BCAA-A865049C4171@newcastle.edu.au>

Thanks Nathan and Paul for your feedback.

> On 3 Apr 2017, at 3:32 pm, Nathan Bailey <web at polynate.net> wrote:
> 
> Mark, is there any chance you could collaborate on this with another uni? Universities tend to be far more understanding of sharing coursework with each other than with the general public, so there may be some opportunity to collaborate on the "closed" bits as well as the open bits.

While hesitant to bite off more than I can chew, I had thoughts that if the project went well we would write a paper and submit it to one of the leading Australian Computer Science Education conferences - probably ACE. This is the ?Computer Science Education? conference and would definitely help promote the approach across other ANZ educational institutions.

There is a fair bit of ?we don?t know what we don?t know? here as well. I doubt we will have a clear view of just how bad a problem we have here (i.e. how much FOSS-unfriendly content we have) until we get through the initial review part of the grant. I think it?s important we complete at least that part of the grant before engaging any other institutions.

Regards,
Mark.
===============================
Dr. Mark Wallis (Associate Lecturer)
 
School of Electrical Engineering and Computing
Faculty of Engineering and Built Environment
The University of Newcastle, Callaghan, 2308, NSW
AUSTRALIA
 
Webpage:
https://www.newcastle.edu.au/profile/mark-wallis



From brent.wallis at gmail.com  Mon Apr  3 20:29:44 2017
From: brent.wallis at gmail.com (Brent Wallis)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 20:29:44 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in
 undergraduate Computer Science,
 Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University of
 Newcastle
In-Reply-To: <5427CC87-6124-4F04-BCAA-A865049C4171@newcastle.edu.au>
References: <CAKwoNTvTgeX1a-itV66eHsz3CpnAomDL0UwTSvXeaZc5UbXCWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5427CC87-6124-4F04-BCAA-A865049C4171@newcastle.edu.au>
Message-ID: <CAOsODkCTsch2Ek+zpoo-+zMCa7v1_ATrC0vhwHTyvR0_JofsgQ@mail.gmail.com>

+1 on the proposal.
A worthwhile thing based on the submission and followups.

@All...there is absolutely NO relation here btw.... :-)

BW

On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Mark Wallis <mark.wallis at newcastle.edu.au>
wrote:

> Thanks Nathan and Paul for your feedback.
>
> > On 3 Apr 2017, at 3:32 pm, Nathan Bailey <web at polynate.net> wrote:
> >
> > Mark, is there any chance you could collaborate on this with another
> uni? Universities tend to be far more understanding of sharing coursework
> with each other than with the general public, so there may be some
> opportunity to collaborate on the "closed" bits as well as the open bits.
>
> While hesitant to bite off more than I can chew, I had thoughts that if
> the project went well we would write a paper and submit it to one of the
> leading Australian Computer Science Education conferences - probably ACE.
> This is the ?Computer Science Education? conference and would definitely
> help promote the approach across other ANZ educational institutions.
>
> There is a fair bit of ?we don?t know what we don?t know? here as well. I
> doubt we will have a clear view of just how bad a problem we have here
> (i.e. how much FOSS-unfriendly content we have) until we get through the
> initial review part of the grant. I think it?s important we complete at
> least that part of the grant before engaging any other institutions.
>
> Regards,
> Mark.
> ===============================
> Dr. Mark Wallis (Associate Lecturer)
>
> School of Electrical Engineering and Computing
> Faculty of Engineering and Built Environment
> The University of Newcastle, Callaghan, 2308, NSW
> AUSTRALIA
>
> Webpage:
> https://www.newcastle.edu.au/profile/mark-wallis
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> linux-aus mailing list
> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au
> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus
>
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From russell at coker.com.au  Tue Apr  4 00:35:56 2017
From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker)
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2017 00:35:56 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in
	undergraduate Computer Science,
	Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the
	University of Newcastle
In-Reply-To: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
References: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
Message-ID: <201704040035.56223.russell@coker.com.au>

On Mon, 3 Apr 2017 12:36:11 PM Mark Wallis wrote:
> We propose to undertake a review of the course material being presented in
> the first 2 years of the above degrees. The review will identify all
> worked examples, tutorials and workshops which are presenting
> closed-sourced centric solutions. The outcome of this review will be a
> course development plan which aims to develop alternative or extended
> course material that covers alternate FOSS options available to students.
> The project will hire one undergraduate student to work with the chief
> investigator to develop the new course content during 2017, ready for
> students in 2018.
> 
> Examples of the course material that will be generated includes:
> 
>   *   Worked-examples under Linux, rather than Microsoft Windows (for
> example, instructions showing students how to install and configure a
> compiler) *   Short 5-minute video?s presenting FOSS alternatives to tools
> presented in the primary course material *   Short 5?minute video?s
> providing context of how the course relates to Open Source (for example, a
> case study of Linux Kernel development to be presented during the
> Operating Systems course)
> 
> To comply with pre-existing copyright, any existing course material which
> is expanded to include content generated by this grant will remain under
> the existing copyright terms. Any new content, such as the video
> presentations, will be released under a Creative Commons license.

http://www.australianuniversities.com.au/list/

I think it's good to have more Linux inclusion in university courses.  But I 
am concerned about paying for material of a limited scope.  The above URL says 
"There is a total of 43 accredited universities in Australia comprising 40 
Australian universities, two international universities, and a smaller private 
speciality university".

40*$7000 = $280,000, which is obviously outside our budget.

5*$7000 = $35,000 - the total budget for grants this year.

On Mon, 3 Apr 2017 01:30:38 PM Mark Wallis wrote:
> I?ll admit there are complexities here. In the proposal I?ve committed to
> ensuring that any brand-new content we generate, for example, video?s we
> might record that present FOSS-centric case studies for students, will be
> released under a Creative Commons license.

Will this be on Youtube or a similar site that provides free and easy access?

> The problem lies around any time where we take existing lecture material
> and ?update? it to provide either FOSS-centric points of view or alternate
> steps for the students to work through. All existing lecture material is
> under a closed copyright by UoN. In that case, I won?t be able to release
> this ?updated? material to the community.

But you could release new slides that are added to existing lecture material, 
it wouldn't make a complete presentation, but it would be a good start for 
someone who wanted to develop something similar.  If you released the new 
slides that showed how to do things with Linux while keeping the old slides 
showing how to do things with Windows secret that would achieve the aims of 
Linux Australia.  FWIW I'm generally in favor of free resources for Windows 
training, but if you ended up only offering free resources for Linux training I 
wouldn't complain.  ;)

In the past I released some diagrams for demonstrating concepts that I was 
lecturing about under a free license.  Some people included those diagrams in 
their own lectures so it seemed to do some good.

-- 
My Main Blog         http://etbe.coker.com.au/
My Documents Blog    http://doc.coker.com.au/

From mark.wallis at newcastle.edu.au  Tue Apr  4 07:20:10 2017
From: mark.wallis at newcastle.edu.au (Mark Wallis)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 21:20:10 +0000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in
 undergraduate Computer Science,
 Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University of
 Newcastle
In-Reply-To: <201704040035.56223.russell@coker.com.au>
References: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
 <201704040035.56223.russell@coker.com.au>
Message-ID: <26C3308D-5297-451C-ACB6-AE836840FAE1@newcastle.edu.au>

Good morning Russell

> On 4 Apr 2017, at 12:35 am, Russell Coker <russell at coker.com.au> wrote:
> 
> I think it's good to have more Linux inclusion in university courses.  But I 
> am concerned about paying for material of a limited scope.  

From that perspective, it would seem a sensible approach to partner with one of the larger open Universities and generate brand new course content to teach about FOSS. I believe there are a number of courses that are already available, but generating generic content is not the purpose of this grant. Our aim is purely to reduce the barriers for UoN students that are currently stopping them adopting FOSS. I?m hoping that our work, if we can get it published at the end of the grant, will help spur on further discussions with domestic Universities at large to adopt a similar mindset. 

> Will this be on Youtube or a similar site that provides free and easy access?

Correct.

> But you could release new slides that are added to existing lecture material, 
> it wouldn't make a complete presentation, but it would be a good start for 
> someone who wanted to develop something similar.  If you released the new 
> slides that showed how to do things with Linux while keeping the old slides 
> showing how to do things with Windows secret that would achieve the aims of 
> Linux Australia.  

My only concern with this approach is the disruption to the flow of the course content. If students have to go ?seek out? the alternate content then that could affect adoption rates, where if the alternate content is provided in-line with the existing Windows-centric content then it?s unavoidable that they will consume in. In any case, we are happy to adopt a policy that wherever we can, we will always aim to generate seperate content so we can release it under an open license.

> In the past I released some diagrams for demonstrating concepts that I was 
> lecturing about under a free license.  Some people included those diagrams in 
> their own lectures so it seemed to do some good.

We will be more than happy to search out and include those diagrams to reduce our workload :-)

Regards,
Mark.
===============================
Dr. Mark Wallis (Associate Lecturer)
 
Discipline of Computer Science and Software Engineering
School of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
Faculty of Engineering and Built Environment
The University of Newcastle, Callaghan, 2308, NSW
AUSTRALIA
 
Webpage:
https://www.newcastle.edu.au/profile/mark-wallis


From president at linux.org.au  Tue Apr  4 08:03:15 2017
From: president at linux.org.au (Linux Australia President)
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2017 08:03:15 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grants Application updates April 2017
Message-ID: <e4591968-7b8b-e048-bf52-b25f6b9224da@linux.org.au>

Hi everyone,

This email is to provide a quick update on the status of Grant
Applications, including dates for feedback and when the application will
be discussed at Linux Aus Council.


        Already determined Grant Applications

Derren Desouza - Cryptoproof - Respectfully declined

http://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2017-March/022955.html
<mailto:derrend at yahoo.co.uk>


<mailto:derrend at yahoo.co.uk>

Phil Steel-Wilson - Sunraysia LUG domain and hosting $50 - approved
without community consultation given small amount

http://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2017-March/022966.html


        Grant Applications currently under consideration

Robert Palmer - Moe Men's Shed classes - submitted 24th March, community
feedback open until Friday 7th April, tabled for decision at Council
Meeting 11th April
http://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2017-March/022978.html

Rowland Mosbergen - Stemformatics - submitted 29th March, community
feedback open until Wednesday 12th April, tabled for decision at Council
Meeting 25th April
http://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2017-March/023004.html

Dr Mark Wallis - Open Source Teaching Materials - submitted 3rd April,
community feedback open until Monday 17th April, tabled for decision at
Council Meeting 25th April
http://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2017-April/023008.html


        Overall summary

Currently available funds: $34,950

At the time of writing, no applications have been received for
UX-related funding, matched dollar for dollar up to $AUD 4k by Cartesian
Creative.
At the time of writing, no applications have been received for our
weighted /priority areas.

https://linux.org.au/projects/grants


I would also like to thank the community for the generally high tone of
feedback and engagement we've seen to applications so far - your
comments and suggestions are providing a strong level of assurance
around grant applications and ensuring their alignment with Linux
Australia's values. Thank you for your time and insights.


Council has been discussing several other grant requests with
prospective applicants, and more are expected.

Kind regards,
Kathy

-- 
Kathy Reid
President
Linux Australia

0418 130 636

president at linux.org.au
http://linux.org.au

Linux Australia Inc
GPO Box 4788
Sydney NSW 2001
Australia

ABN 56 987 117 479 

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From russell at coker.com.au  Tue Apr  4 12:39:23 2017
From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker)
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2017 12:39:23 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in
	undergraduate Computer Science,
	Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the
	University of Newcastle
In-Reply-To: <26C3308D-5297-451C-ACB6-AE836840FAE1@newcastle.edu.au>
References: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
 <201704040035.56223.russell@coker.com.au>
 <26C3308D-5297-451C-ACB6-AE836840FAE1@newcastle.edu.au>
Message-ID: <201704041239.23804.russell@coker.com.au>

On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 07:20:10 AM Mark Wallis wrote:
> > On 4 Apr 2017, at 12:35 am, Russell Coker <russell at coker.com.au> wrote:
> > 
> > I think it's good to have more Linux inclusion in university courses. 
> > But I am concerned about paying for material of a limited scope.
> 
> From that perspective, it would seem a sensible approach to partner with
> one of the larger open Universities and generate brand new course content
> to teach about FOSS. I believe there are a number of courses that are

True, but AFAIK they haven't applied.

> > But you could release new slides that are added to existing lecture
> > material, it wouldn't make a complete presentation, but it would be a
> > good start for someone who wanted to develop something similar.  If you
> > released the new slides that showed how to do things with Linux while
> > keeping the old slides showing how to do things with Windows secret that
> > would achieve the aims of Linux Australia.
> 
> My only concern with this approach is the disruption to the flow of the
> course content. If students have to go ?seek out? the alternate content
> then that could affect adoption rates, where if the alternate content is

No, you would provide a single source for the content that students use, as 
well as a second source for the open parts of it that others can use.

> > In the past I released some diagrams for demonstrating concepts that I
> > was lecturing about under a free license.  Some people included those
> > diagrams in their own lectures so it seemed to do some good.
> 
> We will be more than happy to search out and include those diagrams to
> reduce our workload :-)

https://etbe.coker.com.au/2007/04/11/presentations-about-se-linux/

Here are some of my diagrams if you are planning to lecture about SE Linux.

-- 
My Main Blog         http://etbe.coker.com.au/
My Documents Blog    http://doc.coker.com.au/

From mark.wallis at newcastle.edu.au  Tue Apr  4 12:43:29 2017
From: mark.wallis at newcastle.edu.au (Mark Wallis)
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2017 02:43:29 +0000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in
 undergraduate Computer Science,
 Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University of
 Newcastle
In-Reply-To: <201704041239.23804.russell@coker.com.au>
References: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
 <201704040035.56223.russell@coker.com.au>
 <26C3308D-5297-451C-ACB6-AE836840FAE1@newcastle.edu.au>
 <201704041239.23804.russell@coker.com.au>
Message-ID: <4369CC55-148F-4F78-89CC-577568D3F38E@newcastle.edu.au>

Hi Russell

> On 4 Apr 2017, at 12:39 pm, Russell Coker <russell at coker.com.au> wrote:
> 
> No, you would provide a single source for the content that students use, as 
> well as a second source for the open parts of it that others can use.

True. We can embed the content we generate into the standard student course material, but then also make essentially a ?copy? of what we generate also publicly available via Youtube for the videos, or a website for the other content. I?m happy to commit to that approach as it will meet student expectations of having all the content in one place, while also meeting community expectations that whatever we generate is available in an open manner.

> https://etbe.coker.com.au/2007/04/11/presentations-about-se-linux/

Thanks !

Regards,
Mark.
===============================
Dr. Mark Wallis (Associate Lecturer)
 
School of Electrical Engineering and Computing
Faculty of Engineering and Built Environment
The University of Newcastle, Callaghan, 2308, NSW
AUSTRALIA
 
Webpage:
https://www.newcastle.edu.au/profile/mark-wallis

From pierr.chen at gmail.com  Tue Apr  4 13:16:00 2017
From: pierr.chen at gmail.com (Bin Chen)
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2017 13:16:00 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in
 undergraduate Computer Science,
 Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University of
 Newcastle
In-Reply-To: <CB80C10A-2BE8-4D14-84A7-BBFE4686FE23@newcastle.edu.au>
References: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
 <007601d2ac25$d2e7f4f0$78b7ded0$@adam.com.au>
 <CB80C10A-2BE8-4D14-84A7-BBFE4686FE23@newcastle.edu.au>
Message-ID: <CACO5U_fDO9Uo64erGqE8OWuJ4F2ssz=kKZDvpA0aokCkrdCU5Q@mail.gmail.com>

Mark,

On 3 April 2017 at 13:25, Mark Wallis <mark.wallis at newcastle.edu.au> wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> > On 3 Apr 2017, at 12:55 pm, David Lloyd <lloy0076 at adam.com.au> wrote:
> >
> > What do you want to do?
>
> To summarise the project aim, we are looking to update course material for
> our Comp Sci/IT/Soft Eng courses to ensure that we aren?t only providing
> students closed-source options.
>
> Perhaps a couple of examples would help clarify further.
>
> 1. workshops where we only provide steps that work on the Windows
> platform. The grant would pay an undergraduate student to work with me to
> ensure that an alternate workshop is create for students that want to
> complete that work under Linux.
>
> 2. assignments where we ask students to draw diagrams using software only
> available on Windows - for example UML diagrams. We would research and
> provide documentation showing students some FOSS alternates to that
> software.
>

fwiw, I have used visual paradgim [1] a *lot*. It is cross platform and the
community version is free.

For sequence diagram you can you use this [2]. The good things is can
write, instead of draw it,  the diagram, so the diagram can be version
controlled.

[1] https://www.visual-paradigm.com/
[2] https://www.websequencediagrams.com/


>
> 3 course such as our Operating Systems course provides a lot of theory,
> but not a lot of practical demonstration. This grant would pay for an
> undergrad to work with me to present a case study of how some of that
> theory is implemented in the Linux kernel.
>

Awesome!


>
> I hope that helps clarify.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Regards,
> Mark.
> ===============================
> Dr. Mark Wallis (Associate Lecturer)
>
> School of Electrical Engineering and Computing
> Faculty of Engineering and Built Environment
> The University of Newcastle, Callaghan, 2308, NSW
> AUSTRALIA
>
> Webpage:
> https://www.newcastle.edu.au/profile/mark-wallis
> _______________________________________________
> linux-aus mailing list
> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au
> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus
>



-- 
Chen Bin
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From jamezpolley at gmail.com  Tue Apr  4 14:14:40 2017
From: jamezpolley at gmail.com (James Polley)
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2017 14:14:40 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in
 undergraduate Computer Science,
 Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University of
 Newcastle
In-Reply-To: <C8BF1C3E-FDCD-4BA1-9017-613D3A20E721@newcastle.edu.au>
References: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
 <CAA+GJgT_BHgt+cjzks-NSwrPi7Ocm+6i9QdyUPaJPCvEZ7GQ6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <C8BF1C3E-FDCD-4BA1-9017-613D3A20E721@newcastle.edu.au>
Message-ID: <CAA+GJgTA4=THgvFCQTSizRoxxw1FPMxQ5BWD-8yKwHs-ayx22Q@mail.gmail.com>

To follow up on this, I'm tentatively in favor.

As Russell and others have pointed out, it would be financially unviable to
use this exact model for every course for every university in the country.
Even as a one-off grant, this is consuming one-fifth of the grant pool for
the year.

If the grant were solely aimed at producing material for Uni of Newcastle
students my support would be marginal at best - it would fall into the
"doesn't seem great, but if no-one else has better ideas for the money I
guess it's okay" category. I understand that the intent is for as much of
the material as possible to be made public; but without firm details on how
much content that is, I feel that I have to assume it's going to be a
fairly small amount of material of limited use (I'd love to be proven wrong
:) Even so, getting a small amount of material to a limited audience is
better than no material to no audience, which is what happens when we don't
give out grants.

What makes me more inclined to be in favour of this grant is the follow-up
study. I would hope that the results of that study either show us that (A)
this wasn't effective, let's not do it again, or (B) this was effective,
let's see if we can secure more funding to do more of this; either way,
we'll have learned something.

If it's possible, I'd be in favor of making the funding conditional on
obtaining approval to have the review results published; but if timing
constraints make that impossible I'd settle for getting as much of an
indication as possible about whether the results can be published.

On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Mark Wallis <mark.wallis at newcastle.edu.au>
wrote:

> Hi James
>
> Thanks for your feedback !
>
> > On 3 Apr 2017, at 2:07 pm, James Polley <jamezpolley at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > * Are the current course materials accessible to me (as a non-UoN
> student) online? I ask this for two reasons; one is that if they are, I?d
> like to take a look at them to get more of an idea of what materials would
> be produced by this grant. But secondly, I ask because I?ve often found
> that publicly accessible course materials and procedures from universities,
> once they get indexed by search engines, become helpful to a much wider
> range of people than the students they?re aimed at. I?m wondering if the
> new materials produced here would be publicly readable even if they can?t
> be copied; and I?m using the accessibility of the current materials as a
> proxy for that question.
>
> I?m afraid not. UoN does not currently promote a policy of making their
> course material publicly available. As for the content I propose to release
> under a CC license, I intend to host that content outside of the standard
> UoN course tools and then link students to it. For example, we may upload
> the videos we record to YouTube, and then just link students to that
> content. That way - we ensure the material is publicly available.
>
> > * Are you aware of any similar research that has already been done along
> the lines of your proposed Project Review/Success survey? I?m taking it for
> granted that you the method you have proposed (focus group, review
> material, short questionnaire) is sound; I?m specifically wondering if
> you?re aware of anyone who has already attempted something similar to this
> process and has obtained similar data.
>
> We have based this approach on our existing course review processes.
> Courses taught at UoN always go through student review process at the end
> of the semester where we ask the students to complete a short questionnaire
> that gives them the opportunity to provide us feedback on how we can
> improve the course content. I intend to essentially re-use that process to
> have students who have previously completed the courses provide feedback on
> how much better they thought the course would be if the updated/new content
> existed. That?s the plan anyway - I?ll admit that this may alter as the
> grant progresses as we may need to go through the UoN Ethics committee if
> we wish to collect such data and publish it.
>
> Regards,
> Mark.
> ===============================
> Dr. Mark Wallis (Associate Lecturer)
>
> School of Electrical Engineering and Computing
> Faculty of Engineering and Built Environment
> The University of Newcastle, Callaghan, 2308, NSW
> AUSTRALIA
>
> Webpage:
> https://www.newcastle.edu.au/profile/mark-wallis
> _______________________________________________
> linux-aus mailing list
> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au
> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus
>
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From mark.wallis at newcastle.edu.au  Tue Apr  4 15:02:31 2017
From: mark.wallis at newcastle.edu.au (Mark Wallis)
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2017 05:02:31 +0000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in
 undergraduate Computer Science,
 Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University of
 Newcastle
In-Reply-To: <CAA+GJgTA4=THgvFCQTSizRoxxw1FPMxQ5BWD-8yKwHs-ayx22Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
 <CAA+GJgT_BHgt+cjzks-NSwrPi7Ocm+6i9QdyUPaJPCvEZ7GQ6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <C8BF1C3E-FDCD-4BA1-9017-613D3A20E721@newcastle.edu.au>
 <CAA+GJgTA4=THgvFCQTSizRoxxw1FPMxQ5BWD-8yKwHs-ayx22Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DBB94781-6D7C-4686-BAD2-9F7C3E52D1D6@newcastle.edu.au>

Hi James.

> On 4 Apr 2017, at 2:14 pm, James Polley <jamezpolley at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I understand that the intent is for as much of the material as possible to be made public; but without firm details on how much content that is, I feel that I have to assume it's going to be a fairly small amount of material of limited use (I'd love to be proven wrong :) 

I would love to prove you wrong as well :-) Unfortunately, I won?t have a clear indication as to the volume of content we will be able to generate until we complete the review phase of the existing course material. In the interest of transparency, if the grant does not get accepted by UoN then I?ll most likely attempt to seek funding for at least the investigation phase via other channels in order to put together a stronger case to LA, but I imagine the funding will have all been spent by that stage and that will lose us a year.

> What makes me more inclined to be in favour of this grant is the follow-up study. I would hope that the results of that study either show us that (A) this wasn't effective, let's not do it again, or (B) this was effective, let's see if we can secure more funding to do more of this; either way, we'll have learned something.

That is the tact I take with all my research. We try and instil into our students that a bad result set is better than an empty one. If the output from the project is a finding that UoN CompSci/SoftEng/IT students just don?t care that we are only promoting closed-source paths than so be it. I think that would be useful information to have as a community so we can take a step back and ponder why that is.

> If it's possible, I'd be in favor of making the funding conditional on obtaining approval to have the review results published; but if timing constraints make that impossible I'd settle for getting as much of an indication as possible about whether the results can be published.

Ethics approval here at UoN can generally take a couple of months and will require the investigation into the existing content to be completed first so we can define the scale of the surveys/etc. 

As always, thank you for the feedback. Conversations like these really help us bridge the research / industry gap.

Regards,
Mark.
===============================
Dr. Mark Wallis (Associate Lecturer)

School of Electrical Engineering and Computing
Faculty of Engineering and Built Environment
The University of Newcastle, Callaghan, 2308, NSW
AUSTRALIA

Webpage:
https://www.newcastle.edu.au/profile/mark-wallis


From russell at coker.com.au  Tue Apr  4 17:05:35 2017
From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker)
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2017 17:05:35 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in
	undergraduate Computer Science,
	Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the
	University of Newcastle
In-Reply-To: <CACO5U_fDO9Uo64erGqE8OWuJ4F2ssz=kKZDvpA0aokCkrdCU5Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
 <CB80C10A-2BE8-4D14-84A7-BBFE4686FE23@newcastle.edu.au>
 <CACO5U_fDO9Uo64erGqE8OWuJ4F2ssz=kKZDvpA0aokCkrdCU5Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201704041705.35881.russell@coker.com.au>

On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 01:16:00 PM Bin Chen wrote:
> > 2. assignments where we ask students to draw diagrams using software only
> > available on Windows - for example UML diagrams. We would research and
> > provide documentation showing students some FOSS alternates to that
> > software.
> 
> fwiw, I have used visual paradgim [1] a *lot*. It is cross platform and the
> community version is free.

It's a closed-source program that is quite expensive for the full version 
($2000).  I don't think that LA grant money should go towards anything related 
to running proprietary software on Linux.

> For sequence diagram you can you use this [2]. The good things is can
> write, instead of draw it,  the diagram, so the diagram can be version
> controlled.
> 
> [1] https://www.visual-paradigm.com/
> [2] https://www.websequencediagrams.com/

Again that's a proprietary program.

The Debian package "dia" has fulfilled all my diagram needs, but I don't do 
that much with diagrams.  Does anyone have suggestions for other free diagram 
programs?

-- 
My Main Blog         http://etbe.coker.com.au/
My Documents Blog    http://doc.coker.com.au/

From russell at coker.com.au  Tue Apr  4 17:05:35 2017
From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker)
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2017 17:05:35 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in
	undergraduate Computer Science,
	Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the
	University of Newcastle
In-Reply-To: <CACO5U_fDO9Uo64erGqE8OWuJ4F2ssz=kKZDvpA0aokCkrdCU5Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
 <CB80C10A-2BE8-4D14-84A7-BBFE4686FE23@newcastle.edu.au>
 <CACO5U_fDO9Uo64erGqE8OWuJ4F2ssz=kKZDvpA0aokCkrdCU5Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201704041705.35881.russell@coker.com.au>

On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 01:16:00 PM Bin Chen wrote:
> > 2. assignments where we ask students to draw diagrams using software only
> > available on Windows - for example UML diagrams. We would research and
> > provide documentation showing students some FOSS alternates to that
> > software.
> 
> fwiw, I have used visual paradgim [1] a *lot*. It is cross platform and the
> community version is free.

It's a closed-source program that is quite expensive for the full version 
($2000).  I don't think that LA grant money should go towards anything related 
to running proprietary software on Linux.

> For sequence diagram you can you use this [2]. The good things is can
> write, instead of draw it,  the diagram, so the diagram can be version
> controlled.
> 
> [1] https://www.visual-paradigm.com/
> [2] https://www.websequencediagrams.com/

Again that's a proprietary program.

The Debian package "dia" has fulfilled all my diagram needs, but I don't do 
that much with diagrams.  Does anyone have suggestions for other free diagram 
programs?

-- 
My Main Blog         http://etbe.coker.com.au/
My Documents Blog    http://doc.coker.com.au/

From paul at gear.dyndns.org  Tue Apr  4 17:55:37 2017
From: paul at gear.dyndns.org (Paul Gear)
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2017 17:55:37 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in
 undergraduate Computer Science,
 Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University of
 Newcastle
In-Reply-To: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
References: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
Message-ID: <74b33833-6331-c440-9362-003c2f592d34@gear.dyndns.org>

On 03/04/17 12:36, Mark Wallis wrote:
> .. 
>
> *Project Name*: Promotion of FOSS in undergraduate Computer Science,
> Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the
> University of Newcastle
>
> ...
>
> There is currently a low level of FOSS software promotion within the
> course material used to teach these degrees. Worked examples,
> workshops and tutorial material is strongly Microsoft Windows focused,
> primarily due to this being the operating system installed in all
> computer labs at the university. The effect is that students feel less
> inclined to explore FOSS in UON courses such as Programming, Operating
> Systems, Compiler Design and Computer Networks.
>
> ...
>
> The primary aim is to promote FOSS earlier in undergraduate degree?s
> [sic] to ensure that students graduate with an increased knowledge of
> the FOSS environment.
>

Whilst there are many legitimate questions about the details of this
proposal, I'd like to mention that I think the aims of this project are
amongst the most important things Linux Australia can do, whether as
part of a grant or not.  My son started an undergraduate course in IT
this year, and he (being a Linux user) was amazed at how few students
and staff were familiar with Free Software.

Helping undergrad students to engage with FLOSS and providing support
for those who use & develop it are, IMO, essential for the future of
this organisation, and I would love to see us find a way to support
Mark's proposal in a way which aligns with our values.

Paul

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From michael at hybr.id.au  Tue Apr  4 17:58:19 2017
From: michael at hybr.id.au (Michael Van Delft)
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2017 15:58:19 +0800
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in
 undergraduate Computer Science,
 Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University of
 Newcastle
In-Reply-To: <201704041705.35881.russell@coker.com.au>
References: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
 <CB80C10A-2BE8-4D14-84A7-BBFE4686FE23@newcastle.edu.au>
 <CACO5U_fDO9Uo64erGqE8OWuJ4F2ssz=kKZDvpA0aokCkrdCU5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <201704041705.35881.russell@coker.com.au>
Message-ID: <CAJ0HW+cNFSH=zEyhzUxkxHcN8X3kyzsaqxgotSU6ehXG9nVEog@mail.gmail.com>

> Does anyone have suggestions for other free diagram programs?

At the risk of taking this thread off topic, https://www.draw.io/ is a
great web based diagram tool that GPLv3
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From michael at hybr.id.au  Tue Apr  4 17:58:19 2017
From: michael at hybr.id.au (Michael Van Delft)
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2017 15:58:19 +0800
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in
 undergraduate Computer Science,
 Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University of
 Newcastle
In-Reply-To: <201704041705.35881.russell@coker.com.au>
References: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
 <CB80C10A-2BE8-4D14-84A7-BBFE4686FE23@newcastle.edu.au>
 <CACO5U_fDO9Uo64erGqE8OWuJ4F2ssz=kKZDvpA0aokCkrdCU5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <201704041705.35881.russell@coker.com.au>
Message-ID: <CAJ0HW+cNFSH=zEyhzUxkxHcN8X3kyzsaqxgotSU6ehXG9nVEog@mail.gmail.com>

> Does anyone have suggestions for other free diagram programs?

At the risk of taking this thread off topic, https://www.draw.io/ is a
great web based diagram tool that GPLv3
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From kathy at kathyreid.id.au  Tue Apr  4 18:19:38 2017
From: kathy at kathyreid.id.au (Kathy Reid)
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2017 18:19:38 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in
 undergraduate Computer Science,
 Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University of
 Newcastle
In-Reply-To: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
References: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
Message-ID: <41d59ca7-a11d-e99a-3d3c-7d2a6db736b8@kathyreid.id.au>

Taking my 'Pres' hat off for a moment, I'd like to offer some insights
from a University perspective, having spent 16 years working in one.


There are many demands on a lecturer's time; firstly being split between
teaching and research often means that there is precious little time to
update course material. If a proprietary company such as Cisco or
Microsoft makes this easier by providing teaching materials, or indeed,
entire syllabi, then this save precious time. Add on incentives, or
bonuses, or 'industry partnerships', and partnering with a proprietary
company is understandably attractive for a time-poor, resource-thin
faculty.

Secondly, it's hard to teach something if you're not fluent in it
yourself - and again, the proprietary companies have an edge. Ensure the
students know Platform X, rather than (Open Source) Platform Y, and they
in time become professionals and teachers themselves. But where does one
find the time to upskill? Particularly if the documentation or training
that accompanies open source products is not as polished as their
proprietary counterparts.

Thirdly, there is much talk in Universities of 'aligning and partnering
with industry' - there are of course legitimate reasons underpinning
this - such as the need to ensure graduates have the skills that future
employers need, and aligning skills and attributes acquired at
university to the needs of the workforce. How does one 'align and
partner' with open source when the landscape is so fragmented?

At a sector level, instead of collaborating, many of the Universities
are forced to compete in an era of 'student driven demand' - dollars go
where the students go. IT enrolments are waning across the board, for
many reasons, making offering IT courses unattractive to Universities -
because the student-driven demand system means if students don't want to
study IT, IT is not generating revenue for the University. This is why
teaching materials are often held under restrictive copyrights; to
release them is essentially giving them to the competition. It's not
right - I know - but it's a response to the structure that's in place.


So, while I haven't advocated a position either for or against this
grant (it would be inappropriate for me to do so), I hope this is a 
useful backgrounder on some of the issues of open source teaching in
Universities.

Kind regards,
Kathy




From lloy0076 at adam.com.au  Tue Apr  4 18:19:34 2017
From: lloy0076 at adam.com.au (David Lloyd)
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2017 04:19:34 -0400
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in
	undergraduate Computer Science,
	Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the
	University of Newcastle
In-Reply-To: <CACO5U_fDO9Uo64erGqE8OWuJ4F2ssz=kKZDvpA0aokCkrdCU5Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
 <007601d2ac25$d2e7f4f0$78b7ded0$@adam.com.au>
 <CB80C10A-2BE8-4D14-84A7-BBFE4686FE23@newcastle.edu.au>
 <CACO5U_fDO9Uo64erGqE8OWuJ4F2ssz=kKZDvpA0aokCkrdCU5Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <01ce01d2ad1c$33c62980$9b527c80$@adam.com.au>

 

Hi All,

 

 

I see no defined issue with the aim of the project ? my apologies for not being able to decipher it initially; it just didn?t leap out at me.

 

I guess the question for me leads to, would it be appropriate to fund it fully? Partially? Work with the requestor at committee level to improve the likelihood of the membership approving the project?

 

I think many of the members have expressed how they might like any concerns met (including even what type of drawing program to use!). I think Mark?s been more than willing to answer any concerns and within his own sphere of influence seems willing to help promote LA?s goals.

 

I?d be happy to leave this to the committee to either approve, disapprove or recommend another type of action.

 

 

 

DSL

 

 

From: linux-aus [mailto:linux-aus-bounces at lists.linux.org.au] On Behalf Of Bin Chen
Sent: Monday, 3 April 2017 11:16 PM
To: Mark Wallis <mark.wallis at newcastle.edu.au>
Cc: linux-aus at linux.org.au
Subject: Re: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in undergraduate Computer Science, Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University of Newcastle

 

Mark,

 

On 3 April 2017 at 13:25, Mark Wallis <mark.wallis at newcastle.edu.au <mailto:mark.wallis at newcastle.edu.au> > wrote:

Hi David,

> On 3 Apr 2017, at 12:55 pm, David Lloyd <lloy0076 at adam.com.au <mailto:lloy0076 at adam.com.au> > wrote:
>
> What do you want to do?

To summarise the project aim, we are looking to update course material for our Comp Sci/IT/Soft Eng courses to ensure that we aren?t only providing students closed-source options.

Perhaps a couple of examples would help clarify further.

1. workshops where we only provide steps that work on the Windows platform. The grant would pay an undergraduate student to work with me to ensure that an alternate workshop is create for students that want to complete that work under Linux.

2. assignments where we ask students to draw diagrams using software only available on Windows - for example UML diagrams. We would research and provide documentation showing students some FOSS alternates to that software.

 

fwiw, I have used visual paradgim [1] a *lot*. It is cross platform and the community version is free. 

 

For sequence diagram you can you use this [2]. The good things is can write, instead of draw it,  the diagram, so the diagram can be version controlled. 

 

[1] https://www.visual-paradigm.com/

[2] https://www.websequencediagrams.com/

 


3 course such as our Operating Systems course provides a lot of theory, but not a lot of practical demonstration. This grant would pay for an undergrad to work with me to present a case study of how some of that theory is implemented in the Linux kernel.

 

Awesome!

 


I hope that helps clarify.

Kind Regards,

Regards,
Mark.
===============================
Dr. Mark Wallis (Associate Lecturer)

School of Electrical Engineering and Computing
Faculty of Engineering and Built Environment
The University of Newcastle, Callaghan, 2308, NSW
AUSTRALIA

Webpage:
https://www.newcastle.edu.au/profile/mark-wallis

_______________________________________________
linux-aus mailing list
linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au <mailto:linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au> 
http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus





 

-- 

Chen Bin 

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From andrew at donnellan.id.au  Tue Apr  4 18:26:19 2017
From: andrew at donnellan.id.au (Andrew Donnellan)
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2017 18:26:19 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in
 undergraduate Computer Science,
 Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University of
 Newcastle
In-Reply-To: <F6B1967C-A986-433D-BF5B-5BA655F9EB68@newcastle.edu.au>
References: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
 <CALn+=Jo4+3Kk2n4th57-pRQsaJaC9uHbAMNGzF8f8afkBruMSQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <F6B1967C-A986-433D-BF5B-5BA655F9EB68@newcastle.edu.au>
Message-ID: <CALn+=Jp-A1YcJ1_wtqe0ndgLoqN9TSPisN_4BLDVYJWghXnVaQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 3 April 2017 at 14:38, Mark Wallis <mark.wallis at newcastle.edu.au> wrote:
> Thank you for your feedback Andrew.
>
>> On 3 Apr 2017, at 2:20 pm, Andrew Donnellan <andrew at donnellan.id.au> wrote:
>>
>> Any chance of the deliverable also including a report on the success
>> of the overall process + views of course academics involved? I think
>> that would be useful for anyone attempting a similar project at other
>> institutions.
>
> Absolutely. One of the final deliverables is a ?final written report? that will summarise the project outputs and provide our views on its success. We will then ask the wider LA community for their views on the success of the project and where we could have done better. I believe this will be valuable for any other institutions in the future that might want to tackle something similar.

Sounds good!

I fully support this grant request, and I believe the funding
requested is appropriate.


Andrew

From pierr.chen at gmail.com  Wed Apr  5 09:57:53 2017
From: pierr.chen at gmail.com (Bin Chen)
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2017 09:57:53 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in
 undergraduate Computer Science,
 Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University of
 Newcastle
In-Reply-To: <41d59ca7-a11d-e99a-3d3c-7d2a6db736b8@kathyreid.id.au>
References: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
 <41d59ca7-a11d-e99a-3d3c-7d2a6db736b8@kathyreid.id.au>
Message-ID: <CACO5U_dOjLT1Q7Jdotttxs2sv8dchO9K7b43tkji0v0BKmjaYQ@mail.gmail.com>

Kathy,

Thanks for sharing the insights regarding teaching open source in
University.


On 4 April 2017 at 18:19, Kathy Reid <kathy at kathyreid.id.au> wrote:

> Taking my 'Pres' hat off for a moment, I'd like to offer some insights
> from a University perspective, having spent 16 years working in one.
>
>
> There are many demands on a lecturer's time; firstly being split between
> teaching and research often means that there is precious little time to
> update course material. If a proprietary company such as Cisco or
> Microsoft makes this easier by providing teaching materials, or indeed,
> entire syllabi, then this save precious time. Add on incentives, or
> bonuses, or 'industry partnerships', and partnering with a proprietary
> company is understandably attractive for a time-poor, resource-thin
> faculty.
>
> Secondly, it's hard to teach something if you're not fluent in it
> yourself - and again, the proprietary companies have an edge.


I may mis-read this. But open source projects/products actually have an
edge over proprietary software in lots of areas, if not all, such Linux,
Android, Chromium. And lots of proprietary products are actually built upon
open source projects.


> Ensure the
> students know Platform X, rather than (Open Source) Platform Y, and they
> in time become professionals and teachers themselves. But where does one
> find the time to upskill? Particularly if the documentation or training
> that accompanies open source products is not as polished as their
> proprietary counterparts.
>

This maybe true. But the the most valuable things open source is the
source. It is open and you can read whenever you want. The source is the
most accurate document you can ever get. Or put it another way, you/I will
never really understand what the document is saying until you/I see the
code.

btw: Android's doc is actually quite good nowadays, especially the platform
level doc -  you can't get it anywhere else.


>
> Thirdly, there is much talk in Universities of 'aligning and partnering
> with industry' - there are of course legitimate reasons underpinning
> this - such as the need to ensure graduates have the skills that future
> employers need, and aligning skills and attributes acquired at
> university to the needs of the workforce. How does one 'align and
> partner' with open source when the landscape is so fragmented?
>

I don' think we necessarily need a "parnter" to teach a open source.

Once you have a partner, you will need to teach what the partner want to
teach. It may become a training for partner's product/offering (which is
excellent as well).

An alternative is to use open source to teach computer science fundamental.
A case study: everything taught in MIT's computer security class [1] use
open source projects.

[1]
https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-858-computer-systems-security-fall-2014/

Just my 2 cents.


>
> At a sector level, instead of collaborating, many of the Universities
> are forced to compete in an era of 'student driven demand' - dollars go
> where the students go. IT enrolments are waning across the board, for
> many reasons, making offering IT courses unattractive to Universities -
> because the student-driven demand system means if students don't want to
> study IT, IT is not generating revenue for the University. This is why
> teaching materials are often held under restrictive copyrights; to
> release them is essentially giving them to the competition. It's not
> right - I know - but it's a response to the structure that's in place.
>
>
> So, while I haven't advocated a position either for or against this
> grant (it would be inappropriate for me to do so), I hope this is a
> useful backgrounder on some of the issues of open source teaching in
> Universities.
>
> Kind regards,
> Kathy
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> linux-aus mailing list
> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au
> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus
>



-- 
Chen Bin
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From craige at mcwhirter.com.au  Sun Apr  9 22:05:42 2017
From: craige at mcwhirter.com.au (Craige McWhirter)
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2017 22:05:42 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in
 undergraduate Computer Science,
 Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University of
 Newcastle
In-Reply-To: <74b33833-6331-c440-9362-003c2f592d34@gear.dyndns.org>
References: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
 <74b33833-6331-c440-9362-003c2f592d34@gear.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20170409120542.qtk6vmxezbg6dovs@rosewood.mcwhirter.io>

On Tue, Apr 04, 2017 at 17:55:37 +1000, Paul Gear wrote:

>    Whilst there are many legitimate questions about the details of this
>    proposal, I'd like to mention that I think the aims of this project are
>    amongst the most important things Linux Australia can do, whether as part
>    of a grant or not.? My son started an undergraduate course in IT this
>    year, and he (being a Linux user) was amazed at how few students and staff
>    were familiar with Free Software.
>
>    Helping undergrad students to engage with FLOSS and providing support for
>    those who use & develop it are, IMO, essential for the future of this
>    organisation, and I would love to see us find a way to support Mark's
>    proposal in a way which aligns with our values.

While coming in late to this discussion, I felt it worthwhile to echo Paul's
comments above. I could not agree more. Well said.

--
Craige McWhirter
M: +61 4685 91819
W: https://mcwhirter.com.au/
GNUSocial: https://social.mcwhirter.io/craige
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From craige at mcwhirter.com.au  Sun Apr  9 22:13:39 2017
From: craige at mcwhirter.com.au (Craige McWhirter)
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2017 22:13:39 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in
 undergraduate Computer Science,
 Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University of
 Newcastle
In-Reply-To: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
References: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
Message-ID: <20170409121339.6x3lv2ccubg3mlho@rosewood.mcwhirter.io>

On Mon, Apr 03, 2017 at 02:36:11 +0000, Mark Wallis wrote:
>    Hello everyone.

Hello Mark.

>    Project Name: Promotion of FOSS in undergraduate Computer Science,
>    Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University
>    of Newcastle

Thank you for what I consider an excellent proposal that addresses an
increasing sore point.

Being a sysadmin by habit and trade, I cannot help but consider ongoing
maintenance of the materials that are produced by the project and wonder what
thoughts you might have on the matter.

Would maintenance of the materials be minor tweaks made as part of "business as
usual" or would you envisage that further grants my be required at $INTERVAL to
keep materials current?

Thanks!

--
Craige McWhirter
M: +61 4685 91819
W: https://mcwhirter.com.au/
GNUSocial: https://social.mcwhirter.io/craige
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From mark.wallis at newcastle.edu.au  Mon Apr 10 10:01:20 2017
From: mark.wallis at newcastle.edu.au (Mark Wallis)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2017 00:01:20 +0000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in
 undergraduate Computer Science,
 Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University of
 Newcastle
In-Reply-To: <20170409121339.6x3lv2ccubg3mlho@rosewood.mcwhirter.io>
References: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
 <20170409121339.6x3lv2ccubg3mlho@rosewood.mcwhirter.io>
Message-ID: <39B715D9-C4A5-4385-BF2A-180373AE662C@newcastle.edu.au>

Good morning Craige

> Being a sysadmin by habit and trade, I cannot help but consider ongoing
> maintenance of the materials that are produced by the project and wonder what
> thoughts you might have on the matter.
> 
> Would maintenance of the materials be minor tweaks made as part of "business as
> usual" or would you envisage that further grants my be required at $INTERVAL to
> keep materials current?

I expect it to be BAU. Each lecturer at UoN has a mandate to review all content from the previous year?s running of the course and ?update? it before the new teaching semester starts. If the job to update it is too large then there is generally funding available within the school to hire a student to assist with the work.

Out of interest, if I was trying to address this particular problem for an individual course then that is actually the approach I would use - approach the lecturer and then use school funding to hire a student. With this grant though I?m trying to address the issue across at least the first 2 years worth of core subjects of three degree?s - so the scale is a little different, hence why I?m approaching LA for funding. I don?t expect the job to be of this scale once we clear the first hurdle with this funding.

Thanks for the interest :-)

Regards,
Mark.
===============================
Dr. Mark Wallis (Associate Lecturer)

School of Electrical Engineering and Computing
Faculty of Engineering and Built Environment
The University of Newcastle, Callaghan, 2308, NSW
AUSTRALIA

Webpage:
https://www.newcastle.edu.au/profile/mark-wallis

From craige at mcwhirter.com.au  Mon Apr 17 18:48:22 2017
From: craige at mcwhirter.com.au (Craige McWhirter)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 18:48:22 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in
 undergraduate Computer Science,
 Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University of
 Newcastle
In-Reply-To: <39B715D9-C4A5-4385-BF2A-180373AE662C@newcastle.edu.au>
References: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
 <20170409121339.6x3lv2ccubg3mlho@rosewood.mcwhirter.io>
 <39B715D9-C4A5-4385-BF2A-180373AE662C@newcastle.edu.au>
Message-ID: <20170417084822.pd2r5oxuxkk5csen@rosewood.mcwhirter.io>

On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 00:01:20 +0000, Mark Wallis wrote:
> Good morning Craige
>
> > Being a sysadmin by habit and trade, I cannot help but consider ongoing
> > maintenance of the materials that are produced by the project and wonder what
> > thoughts you might have on the matter.
> >
> > Would maintenance of the materials be minor tweaks made as part of "business as
> > usual" or would you envisage that further grants my be required at $INTERVAL to
> > keep materials current?
>
> I expect it to be BAU. Each lecturer at UoN has a mandate to review all
> content from the previous year?s running of the course and ?update? it before
> the new teaching semester starts. If the job to update it is too large then
> there is generally funding available within the school to hire a student to
> assist with the work.
>
> Out of interest, if I was trying to address this particular problem for an
> individual course then that is actually the approach I would use - approach
> the lecturer and then use school funding to hire a student. With this grant
> though I?m trying to address the issue across at least the first 2 years
> worth of core subjects of three degree?s - so the scale is a little
> different, hence why I?m approaching LA for funding. I don?t expect the job
> to be of this scale once we clear the first hurdle with this funding.
>
> Thanks for the interest :-)

Thanks for the response.

Apologies for my tardy acknowledgement, I've been away on leave.

--
Craige McWhirter
M: +61 4685 91819
W: https://mcwhirter.com.au/
GNUSocial: https://social.mcwhirter.io/craige
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From robert.manietta at gmail.com  Tue Apr 18 12:42:47 2017
From: robert.manietta at gmail.com (Robert Manietta)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 12:42:47 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Request 2017
Message-ID: <CAAOvAEXwg8RqXidn7zTOVKVHf3DqxK8wAZZ9CCOC+FXmxqGfjg@mail.gmail.com>

Good Afternoon All,

Please see our grant application for constructive comment and review.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0h7_VT0etAMUTlFU2dEZnUyVVU

Regards

Robert Manietta  |  Cause Leader  IT&T & Digital Fabrication
HS Ipswich



*Please consider the environment before printing this email.*



This message may contain confidential information of the author and
affiliated companies. If you are not the intended recipient please

(1) do not disclose, copy, distribute or use this information,

(2) advise the sender by return e-mail and

(3) delete all copies from your computer. Your cooperation is greatly
appreciated.
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From andrew at donnellan.id.au  Tue Apr 18 13:16:06 2017
From: andrew at donnellan.id.au (Andrew Donnellan)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 13:16:06 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Request 2017
In-Reply-To: <CAAOvAEXwg8RqXidn7zTOVKVHf3DqxK8wAZZ9CCOC+FXmxqGfjg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAOvAEXwg8RqXidn7zTOVKVHf3DqxK8wAZZ9CCOC+FXmxqGfjg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALn+=JrYcVEXjWe1j7wvTU3i9cXVVECr5_8iTOWzaXVQoO4wqA@mail.gmail.com>

On 18 April 2017 at 12:42, Robert Manietta <robert.manietta at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Good Afternoon All,
>
> Please see our grant application for constructive comment and review.
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0h7_VT0etAMUTlFU2dEZnUyVVU
>
>

For reference, the home page of HS Ipswich can be found at
http://www.hsipswich.org/


Andrew

-- 
Andrew Donnellan
http://andrew.donnellan.id.au         andrew at donnellan.id.au
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From Robert.Manietta at hsipswich.org.au  Tue Apr 18 09:26:07 2017
From: Robert.Manietta at hsipswich.org.au (Robert Manietta)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 23:26:07 +0000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application 2017
In-Reply-To: <SY3PR01MB0250FF2682664CC87A0F171ACD060@SY3PR01MB0250.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SY3PR01MB0250FF2682664CC87A0F171ACD060@SY3PR01MB0250.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <SY3PR01MB02509EB4D3F3AD932316EBE8CD060@SY3PR01MB0250.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>


Good Morning All,


Please see our grant application for constructive comment and review.


Regards


Robert Manietta  |  Cause Leader  IT&T & Digital Fabrication

HS Ipswich
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From russell at coker.com.au  Tue Apr 18 16:56:02 2017
From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 16:56:02 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] LA list errors
Message-ID: <201704181656.02643.russell@coker.com.au>

I've attached an error from an attempted Linux Australia list delivery, it's 
one of many.

Gmail doesn't use the l= flag when DKIM signing messages, so the hash of the 
body is computed over the entire body including the list footer.  This doesn't 
match and the DKIM check fails.  Any recipient who does DKIM checks will 
reject such mail, if the checks are strict it will be rejected outright, if 
they are added to a SA score then they will be rejected sometimes.

Even when l= is used or you turn off the list footer and Subject munging there 
is no guarantee that Mailman will refrain from munging the messages.  
Sometimes it changes ASCII messages to MIME encoded and it also never 
preserves headers, it parses them and regenerates new headers based on the 
parsing.

With the version of Mailman used for that list you can edit 
"/etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py" to have the directive "REMOVE_DKIM_HEADERS = Yes", 
that will remove all headers and solve the problems for senders that don't use 
DMARC or ADSP.

In the web based configuration for Mailman there is a "dmarc_moderation_action" 
setting that can munge the From field on messages with a DMARC policy.  But 
that doesn't solve things for ADSP messages or messages that don't use DMARC 
or ADSP.

If you use the "from_is_list" setting in the web based configuration for the 
list then all mail will have a From field as done on the Tresys list which 
shows who the message is from as well as the fact that it came From a list 
server.  This combined with REMOVE_DKIM_HEADERS will allow DKIM signed mail 
sent to the list to go through correctly.

https://wiki.debian.org/OpenDKIM

Here is the Debian Wiki page about installing OpenDKIM.  It needs additions 
for MTAs other than Postfix and list servers other than Mailman.

https://wiki.list.org/DEV/DMARC
https://wiki.list.org/DEV/DKIM

Here are the Mailman wiki entries about DMARC and DKIM.


PS  If you reply to this message and you use GMAIL, Yahoo, Hotmail, or any of 
the other providers that use DKIM then make sure you CC me.  The list will 
munge your message, the DKIM signature will be broken, and my MTA will reject 
the copy of your message that came through the list.

-- 
My Main Blog         http://etbe.coker.com.au/
My Documents Blog    http://doc.coker.com.au/
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Apr 18 12:46:51 smtp postfix/smtpd[12111]: 63ABFECF5: client=mailhost.linux.org.au[192.55.98.181]                                                                                                                      
Apr 18 12:46:51 smtp postfix/cleanup[12694]: 63ABFECF5: message-id=<CAAOvAEXwg8RqXidn7zTOVKVHf3DqxK8wAZZ9CCOC+FXmxqGfjg at mail.gmail.com>                                                                                
Apr 18 12:46:51 smtp opendkim[10146]: 63ABFECF5: s=20161025 d=gmail.com SSL error:04091068:rsa routines:int_rsa_verify:bad signature                                                                                   
Apr 18 12:46:51 smtp opendkim[10146]: 63ABFECF5: bad signature data                                                                                                                                                    
Apr 18 12:46:51 smtp postfix/cleanup[12694]: 63ABFECF5: milter-reject: END-OF-MESSAGE from mailhost.linux.org.au[192.55.98.181]: 5.7.0 bad DKIM signature data; from=<linux-aus-bounces at lists.linux.org.au> to=<abc at coker.com.au> proto=ESMTP helo=<mailhost.linux.org.au>

From a.nielsen at shikadi.net  Tue Apr 18 18:33:59 2017
From: a.nielsen at shikadi.net (Adam Nielsen)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 18:33:59 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] LA list errors
In-Reply-To: <201704181656.02643.russell@coker.com.au>
References: <201704181656.02643.russell@coker.com.au>
Message-ID: <20170418183359.6152b92d@teln.shikadi.net>

> PS  If you reply to this message and you use GMAIL, Yahoo, Hotmail,
> or any of the other providers that use DKIM then make sure you CC
> me.  The list will munge your message, the DKIM signature will be
> broken, and my MTA will reject the copy of your message that came
> through the list.

Thanks for the summary of the issues - I have wanted to investigate
this for some time to see if there's a solution but never had the
chance.

I have run into so many problems with DKIM and mailing list software
though that I have basically given up using DKIM to reject e-mail.  Half
the spam I get is correctly DKIM signed anyway so it doesn't really do a
lot for me.

I've worked around the problem by whitelisting certain mailing lists I
am interested in.  In my case I let SpamAssassin do the DKIM checks so
I can add a rule to drop the spam score down quite a bit if the message
comes through a known mailing list, which still allows it to be flagged
as spam if there are other rules that match besides the DKIM ones.

Cheers,
Adam.

From david.t.bell91 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 18 19:05:01 2017
From: david.t.bell91 at gmail.com (David Bell)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 19:05:01 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] LA list errors
In-Reply-To: <20170418183359.6152b92d@teln.shikadi.net>
References: <201704181656.02643.russell@coker.com.au>
 <20170418183359.6152b92d@teln.shikadi.net>
Message-ID: <CAABKjOByQ_FC=hmTU-uBXcfKAE7ExrCv-Fz9gmHSy6UDK6ypfA@mail.gmail.com>

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the fact thay Gmail users didn't
receive the original email in this thread (and only that email, I've never
noticed other missed messages) suggest the issue might be with the original
sender's configuration?

Cheers,
David

On 18 Apr. 2017 18:34, "Adam Nielsen" <a.nielsen at shikadi.net> wrote:

> > PS  If you reply to this message and you use GMAIL, Yahoo, Hotmail,
> > or any of the other providers that use DKIM then make sure you CC
> > me.  The list will munge your message, the DKIM signature will be
> > broken, and my MTA will reject the copy of your message that came
> > through the list.
>
> Thanks for the summary of the issues - I have wanted to investigate
> this for some time to see if there's a solution but never had the
> chance.
>
> I have run into so many problems with DKIM and mailing list software
> though that I have basically given up using DKIM to reject e-mail.  Half
> the spam I get is correctly DKIM signed anyway so it doesn't really do a
> lot for me.
>
> I've worked around the problem by whitelisting certain mailing lists I
> am interested in.  In my case I let SpamAssassin do the DKIM checks so
> I can add a rule to drop the spam score down quite a bit if the message
> comes through a known mailing list, which still allows it to be flagged
> as spam if there are other rules that match besides the DKIM ones.
>
> Cheers,
> Adam.
> _______________________________________________
> linux-aus mailing list
> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au
> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus
>
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From russell at coker.com.au  Tue Apr 18 19:12:44 2017
From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 19:12:44 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] LA list errors
In-Reply-To: <CAABKjOByQ_FC=hmTU-uBXcfKAE7ExrCv-Fz9gmHSy6UDK6ypfA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <201704181656.02643.russell@coker.com.au>
 <20170418183359.6152b92d@teln.shikadi.net>
 <CAABKjOByQ_FC=hmTU-uBXcfKAE7ExrCv-Fz9gmHSy6UDK6ypfA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201704181912.44739.russell@coker.com.au>

On Tue, 18 Apr 2017 07:05:01 PM David Bell wrote:
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the fact thay Gmail users didn't
> receive the original email in this thread (and only that email, I've never
> noticed other missed messages) suggest the issue might be with the original
> sender's configuration?

No.  Please read the links in my original message and also do some background 
reading on DKIM.  The problem is with the list server.  It is easy to fix.  It 
has been fixed on other list servers including the LCA chat list that was run 
with Linux Australia resources.

The people who run this list have fixed the problem on the LCA chat list.

-- 
My Main Blog         http://etbe.coker.com.au/
My Documents Blog    http://doc.coker.com.au/

From russell at coker.com.au  Tue Apr 18 19:23:36 2017
From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 19:23:36 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] LA list errors
In-Reply-To: <20170418183359.6152b92d@teln.shikadi.net>
References: <201704181656.02643.russell@coker.com.au>
 <20170418183359.6152b92d@teln.shikadi.net>
Message-ID: <201704181923.36485.russell@coker.com.au>

On Tue, 18 Apr 2017 06:33:59 PM Adam Nielsen wrote:
> > PS  If you reply to this message and you use GMAIL, Yahoo, Hotmail,
> > or any of the other providers that use DKIM then make sure you CC
> > me.  The list will munge your message, the DKIM signature will be
> > broken, and my MTA will reject the copy of your message that came
> > through the list.
> 
> Thanks for the summary of the issues - I have wanted to investigate
> this for some time to see if there's a solution but never had the
> chance.

Well there is a solution and it has been working with the LUV lists for over a 
year.  The LUV lists use Mailman just like this list.

> I have run into so many problems with DKIM and mailing list software
> though that I have basically given up using DKIM to reject e-mail.  Half
> the spam I get is correctly DKIM signed anyway so it doesn't really do a
> lot for me.

If you read all the Wiki pages etc and try to set it up from first principles 
and documentation then you will have many problems with DKIM and Mailman.  If 
you do what I suggested in my first message then it takes about 5 minutes to 
get it all fixed.  Change 1 line in a config file, restart the daemon, and then 
change 1 entry in the web based config for the list.

> I've worked around the problem by whitelisting certain mailing lists I
> am interested in.  In my case I let SpamAssassin do the DKIM checks so
> I can add a rule to drop the spam score down quite a bit if the message
> comes through a known mailing list, which still allows it to be flagged
> as spam if there are other rules that match besides the DKIM ones.

Sounds nice.  Could you publish the configuration in a blog post or write it up 
in a Wiki somewhere?

-- 
My Main Blog         http://etbe.coker.com.au/
My Documents Blog    http://doc.coker.com.au/

From david.t.bell91 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 18 19:42:15 2017
From: david.t.bell91 at gmail.com (David Bell)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 19:42:15 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] LA list errors
In-Reply-To: <201704181912.44739.russell@coker.com.au>
References: <201704181656.02643.russell@coker.com.au>
 <20170418183359.6152b92d@teln.shikadi.net>
 <CAABKjOByQ_FC=hmTU-uBXcfKAE7ExrCv-Fz9gmHSy6UDK6ypfA@mail.gmail.com>
 <201704181912.44739.russell@coker.com.au>
Message-ID: <CAABKjOC50SVjBH-Nf=YYE-0X+qB6aHkyV8QSBiTpxrRRNtUnaQ@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry, I didn't actually receive the original email as mentioned.

The LCA lists are actually administered by the teams (I know this, because
I administered the list for LCA2016, but I do not administer the lists for
LA).

I think it's? highly optimistic that you expect all other systems adhere to
all the standards for SMTP correctly, as per the various RFCs, and I wish
you luck on this endeavour. Because I deal with a lot of weird mail
systems, and none of yhe standards are sacred.

On 18 Apr. 2017 19:12, "Russell Coker" <russell at coker.com.au> wrote:

> On Tue, 18 Apr 2017 07:05:01 PM David Bell wrote:
> > Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the fact thay Gmail users didn't
> > receive the original email in this thread (and only that email, I've
> never
> > noticed other missed messages) suggest the issue might be with the
> original
> > sender's configuration?
>
> No.  Please read the links in my original message and also do some
> background
> reading on DKIM.  The problem is with the list server.  It is easy to
> fix.  It
> has been fixed on other list servers including the LCA chat list that was
> run
> with Linux Australia resources.
>
> The people who run this list have fixed the problem on the LCA chat list.
>
> --
> My Main Blog         http://etbe.coker.com.au/
> My Documents Blog    http://doc.coker.com.au/
>
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From russell at coker.com.au  Tue Apr 18 19:51:10 2017
From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 19:51:10 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] LA list errors
In-Reply-To: <201704181923.36485.russell@coker.com.au>
References: <201704181656.02643.russell@coker.com.au>
 <20170418183359.6152b92d@teln.shikadi.net>
 <201704181923.36485.russell@coker.com.au>
Message-ID: <201704181951.11048.russell@coker.com.au>

On Tue, 18 Apr 2017 07:23:36 PM Russell Coker wrote:
> you do what I suggested in my first message then it takes about 5 minutes
> to  get it all fixed.  Change 1 line in a config file, restart the daemon,
> and then change 1 entry in the web based config for the list.

Changing 1 entry for each list can be tiring if you have lots of lists.  Some 
shell code like the following should do it, but I haven't tested so don't 
deploy this without testing.

for n in lista listb listc ; do
  config_list -o /tmp/$n $n
  sed -e "s/from_is_list = 0/from_is_list = 1/" /tmp/$n
  config_list -i /tmp/$n $n
done

-- 
My Main Blog         http://etbe.coker.com.au/
My Documents Blog    http://doc.coker.com.au/

From russell at coker.com.au  Tue Apr 18 20:01:36 2017
From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 20:01:36 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] LA list errors
In-Reply-To: <CAABKjOC50SVjBH-Nf=YYE-0X+qB6aHkyV8QSBiTpxrRRNtUnaQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <201704181656.02643.russell@coker.com.au>
 <201704181912.44739.russell@coker.com.au>
 <CAABKjOC50SVjBH-Nf=YYE-0X+qB6aHkyV8QSBiTpxrRRNtUnaQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201704182001.36740.russell@coker.com.au>

On Tue, 18 Apr 2017 07:42:15 PM David Bell wrote:
> Sorry, I didn't actually receive the original email as mentioned.

This is the problem that needs to be fixed.

> The LCA lists are actually administered by the teams (I know this, because
> I administered the list for LCA2016, but I do not administer the lists for
> LA).

Which team administers this list and how do we get them to fix it?

> I think it's? highly optimistic that you expect all other systems adhere to
> all the standards for SMTP correctly, as per the various RFCs, and I wish
> you luck on this endeavour. Because I deal with a lot of weird mail
> systems, and none of yhe standards are sacred.

There is no reason why the LA server should be one of the weird systems.  I 
don't think it's optimistic to expect that the responsible people will fix 
their problem.  I have got them to fix other problems with the LA servers like 
the one that stopped people using SPF from sending mail to the LA council.

At the same time as sending the first message on this topic I sent an email to 
an NSA employee about getting their list server (which also runs Mailman) 
fixed.  It will be interesting to see if a large and beurocratic organisation 
can fix their mail server faster than LA.

If it doesn't work this time I'll just wait a year and start the discussion 
again.

> On 18 Apr. 2017 19:12, "Russell Coker" <russell at coker.com.au> wrote:
> > On Tue, 18 Apr 2017 07:05:01 PM David Bell wrote:
> > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the fact thay Gmail users didn't
> > > receive the original email in this thread (and only that email, I've
> > 
> > never
> > 
> > > noticed other missed messages) suggest the issue might be with the
> > 
> > original
> > 
> > > sender's configuration?
> > 
> > No.  Please read the links in my original message and also do some
> > background
> > reading on DKIM.  The problem is with the list server.  It is easy to
> > fix.  It
> > has been fixed on other list servers including the LCA chat list that was
> > run
> > with Linux Australia resources.
> > 
> > The people who run this list have fixed the problem on the LCA chat list.
> > 
> > --
> > My Main Blog         http://etbe.coker.com.au/
> > My Documents Blog    http://doc.coker.com.au/

-- 
My Main Blog         http://etbe.coker.com.au/
My Documents Blog    http://doc.coker.com.au/

From andrew at donnellan.id.au  Tue Apr 18 20:33:53 2017
From: andrew at donnellan.id.au (Andrew Donnellan)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 20:33:53 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] LA list errors
In-Reply-To: <CAABKjOByQ_FC=hmTU-uBXcfKAE7ExrCv-Fz9gmHSy6UDK6ypfA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <201704181656.02643.russell@coker.com.au>
 <20170418183359.6152b92d@teln.shikadi.net>
 <CAABKjOByQ_FC=hmTU-uBXcfKAE7ExrCv-Fz9gmHSy6UDK6ypfA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALn+=JqQF1Ydexkse7ng6Cn_d0KEP3-n9WgKyueJLesA0pHQ_Q@mail.gmail.com>

On 18 April 2017 at 19:05, David Bell <david.t.bell91 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the fact thay Gmail users didn't
> receive the original email in this thread (and only that email, I've never
> noticed other missed messages) suggest the issue might be with the original
> sender's configuration?

You'll find that Gmail spam-filters any email coming via the Linux-aus
list from a domain with a DMARC policy specifying quarantine or
reject. So far on this list, I've seen Russell (coker.com.au) as well
as Andrew Bartlett (samba.org) being hit by this. This is definitely
not the first time this issue has been raised on Linux-aus and I have
definitely seen other messages being spam filtered due to this.

IMHO, yes, this does need to be fixed on the list servers. DKIM and
DMARC have been standardised for a while now and it's time that list
servers caught up.


Andrew

From a.nielsen at shikadi.net  Tue Apr 18 23:23:17 2017
From: a.nielsen at shikadi.net (Adam Nielsen)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 23:23:17 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application 2017 - TP-Link PoE switches
In-Reply-To: <SY3PR01MB02509EB4D3F3AD932316EBE8CD060@SY3PR01MB0250.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SY3PR01MB0250FF2682664CC87A0F171ACD060@SY3PR01MB0250.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <SY3PR01MB02509EB4D3F3AD932316EBE8CD060@SY3PR01MB0250.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <20170418232317.3cbcedee@gik.teln.shikadi.net>

Hi Robert,

> Please see our grant application for constructive comment and review.

This might not be relevant for your purposes, but are you aware that
the TP-Link TL-SG1008P switch you are proposing is a non-isolated PoE
switch?

This means that any device it powers cannot be connected to any other
earthed device, or it will short out the switch's power supply.  The
reason is that (no doubt for cost cutting measures), any PoE devices
connected to this switch have their negative supply (GND) connected to
-48VDC with respect to earth, rather than the more usual direct
connection to earth itself.

The end result of this is that, should you power your Pi via PoE, all
the connector shields on the Pi are sitting at -48VDC.  So when you
(for example) plug in a HDMI cable connected to a TV, the 0V shield on
the cable gets connected to -48VDC on the Pi, short circuiting the
brick powering the TP-Link switch.

I had this exact problem and connecting a HDMI cable to the Pi produces
a spark and shuts off the switch, although the switch does reboot once
the cable is removed again.  Although I didn't leave it connected for
long enough to see if the power supply exploded or caught fire...

If you will only ever be powering PoE devices that do not plug into any
other powered device (e.g. VoIP phones, IP cameras, etc.) then you can
probably get away with it, but I am a bit wary of my TP-Link switch now
after this experience.  I have to remember that any PoE device
connected to this switch absolutely cannot have certain things plugged
into it - HDMI monitors, powered USB hard drives, headphone cable to
an amplifier (48 volts on an amplifier's audio input, ouch!)

I would recommend looking at eBay for a second hand Cisco switch
instead, which is what I ended up getting to replace the TP-Link when
I eventually needed more than eight ports.  You can get a 48-port PoE
switch for $16 more than one TP-Link unit if you are willing to settle
for 100Mbps on all switch ports, or if you want gigabit then a 48-port
Cisco is ~$7 less than the three TP-Link 8-port switches in your
proposal - not bad for double the capacity.

I was a bit fearful of using a Cisco switch, thinking I'd have to take
a course to figure out how to use it, but setting it up is one of the
easiest things I've ever done.  Installing Linux is way harder.  It
doesn't actually need any configuration at all if you want to use it
like an unmanaged switch.  I love how the configuration is just one big
text file, which you pretty much just copy onto the device and it
immediately starts functioning exactly as described.  OpenWRT and the
other router distros could learn a thing or two from that!

Anyway, I just thought I had better point out one of the limitations
with the TP-Link in case it affects what you were intending to do with
it.

Cheers,
Adam.

From a.nielsen at shikadi.net  Tue Apr 18 23:46:26 2017
From: a.nielsen at shikadi.net (Adam Nielsen)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 23:46:26 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] LA list errors
In-Reply-To: <201704181923.36485.russell@coker.com.au>
References: <201704181656.02643.russell@coker.com.au>
 <20170418183359.6152b92d@teln.shikadi.net>
 <201704181923.36485.russell@coker.com.au>
Message-ID: <20170418234626.417c0251@gik.teln.shikadi.net>

> If you read all the Wiki pages etc and try to set it up from first
> principles and documentation then you will have many problems with
> DKIM and Mailman.  If you do what I suggested in my first message
> then it takes about 5 minutes to get it all fixed.  Change 1 line in
> a config file, restart the daemon, and then change 1 entry in the web
> based config for the list.

Sorry the problems I was thinking of were more with other people's
lists, over which I don't have control.  Because DKIM meant I was
rejecting so many messages that others were sending to the lists, my
subscriptions quickly got disabled by Mailman's automatic bounce
processing as it thought the frequent bounces meant something was wrong
with my e-mail address.

In the past I didn't know what solution to offer (as I mentioned I
never investigated fully) so now that you have a solution for Mailman,
perhaps this is worth revisiting...

> > I've worked around the problem by whitelisting certain mailing lists I
> > am interested in.  In my case I let SpamAssassin do the DKIM checks so
> > I can add a rule to drop the spam score down quite a bit if the message
> > comes through a known mailing list, which still allows it to be flagged
> > as spam if there are other rules that match besides the DKIM ones.  
> 
> Sounds nice.  Could you publish the configuration in a blog post or
> write it up in a Wiki somewhere?

It's not really fancy enough for that.  Just a default SpamAssassin
install, linked to the MTA per the docs.  I have left the
T_DKIM_INVALID rule at the default level, and added a new rule for this
mailing list which is not very foolproof but it works, and no spam has
exploited it yet:

header LOCAL_LINUX_AUS       Sender =~ /linux-aus-bounces\@lists\.linux\.org\.au/
score LOCAL_LINUX_AUS        -5.0
describe LOCAL_LINUX_AUS     Linux Australia mailing list

By way of an example, this is what my SpamAssassin instance said for the first
message you posted to the list in this thread.  Despite it failing the DKIM test
and your domain recommending it be discarded, it ended up being classified as
'definitely not spam':

 Content analysis details:   (-3.5 points, 3.0 required)
  pts rule name              description
 ---- ---------------------- --------------------------------------------------
 -2.3 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED      RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, medium
                              trust
                             [192.55.98.181 listed in list.dnswl.org]
 -5.0 LOCAL_LINUX_AUS        Linux Australia mailing list
  1.8 DKIM_ADSP_DISCARD      No valid author signature, domain signs all mail
                             and suggests discarding the rest
  0.0 T_HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS From and EnvelopeFrom 2nd level mail
                             domains are different
 -0.5 RP_MATCHES_RCVD        Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain
  1.0 DKIM_SIGNED            Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid
  1.5 T_DKIM_INVALID         DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid

Cheers,
Adam.

From robert.manietta at gmail.com  Wed Apr 19 06:12:56 2017
From: robert.manietta at gmail.com (Robert Manietta)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 06:12:56 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application 2017 - TP-Link PoE switches
In-Reply-To: <20170418232317.3cbcedee@gik.teln.shikadi.net>
References: <SY3PR01MB0250FF2682664CC87A0F171ACD060@SY3PR01MB0250.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <SY3PR01MB02509EB4D3F3AD932316EBE8CD060@SY3PR01MB0250.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <20170418232317.3cbcedee@gik.teln.shikadi.net>
Message-ID: <CAAOvAEXBfu2PBh1S4RJFRib68NuirGBq6x5SuyVF_Wb0EofuEQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Adam,

Thank you for your comments, We were aware of this.

That being said it is something we will need to ensure we have noted, so no
one damages other equipment.

Regards

Robert Manietta

On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 11:23 PM, Adam Nielsen <a.nielsen at shikadi.net>
wrote:

> Hi Robert,
>
> > Please see our grant application for constructive comment and review.
>
> This might not be relevant for your purposes, but are you aware that
> the TP-Link TL-SG1008P switch you are proposing is a non-isolated PoE
> switch?
>
> This means that any device it powers cannot be connected to any other
> earthed device, or it will short out the switch's power supply.  The
> reason is that (no doubt for cost cutting measures), any PoE devices
> connected to this switch have their negative supply (GND) connected to
> -48VDC with respect to earth, rather than the more usual direct
> connection to earth itself.
>
> The end result of this is that, should you power your Pi via PoE, all
> the connector shields on the Pi are sitting at -48VDC.  So when you
> (for example) plug in a HDMI cable connected to a TV, the 0V shield on
> the cable gets connected to -48VDC on the Pi, short circuiting the
> brick powering the TP-Link switch.
>
> I had this exact problem and connecting a HDMI cable to the Pi produces
> a spark and shuts off the switch, although the switch does reboot once
> the cable is removed again.  Although I didn't leave it connected for
> long enough to see if the power supply exploded or caught fire...
>
> If you will only ever be powering PoE devices that do not plug into any
> other powered device (e.g. VoIP phones, IP cameras, etc.) then you can
> probably get away with it, but I am a bit wary of my TP-Link switch now
> after this experience.  I have to remember that any PoE device
> connected to this switch absolutely cannot have certain things plugged
> into it - HDMI monitors, powered USB hard drives, headphone cable to
> an amplifier (48 volts on an amplifier's audio input, ouch!)
>
> I would recommend looking at eBay for a second hand Cisco switch
> instead, which is what I ended up getting to replace the TP-Link when
> I eventually needed more than eight ports.  You can get a 48-port PoE
> switch for $16 more than one TP-Link unit if you are willing to settle
> for 100Mbps on all switch ports, or if you want gigabit then a 48-port
> Cisco is ~$7 less than the three TP-Link 8-port switches in your
> proposal - not bad for double the capacity.
>
> I was a bit fearful of using a Cisco switch, thinking I'd have to take
> a course to figure out how to use it, but setting it up is one of the
> easiest things I've ever done.  Installing Linux is way harder.  It
> doesn't actually need any configuration at all if you want to use it
> like an unmanaged switch.  I love how the configuration is just one big
> text file, which you pretty much just copy onto the device and it
> immediately starts functioning exactly as described.  OpenWRT and the
> other router distros could learn a thing or two from that!
>
> Anyway, I just thought I had better point out one of the limitations
> with the TP-Link in case it affects what you were intending to do with
> it.
>
> Cheers,
> Adam.
>



-- 

*Regards*



*Robert Manietta*



*Please consider the environment before printing this email.*



This message may contain confidential information of the author and
affiliated companies. If you are not the intended recipient please

(1) do not disclose, copy, distribute or use this information,

(2) advise the sender by return e-mail and

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From web at polynate.net  Wed Apr 19 10:25:21 2017
From: web at polynate.net (Nathan Bailey)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 10:25:21 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application 2017
In-Reply-To: <SY3PR01MB02509EB4D3F3AD932316EBE8CD060@SY3PR01MB0250.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SY3PR01MB0250FF2682664CC87A0F171ACD060@SY3PR01MB0250.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <SY3PR01MB02509EB4D3F3AD932316EBE8CD060@SY3PR01MB0250.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAKwoNTsn4QVZL+TdTTbNnZ1YXKjw4CNOu4fLQ5UyiL9a8r=5ig@mail.gmail.com>

Hi LA,
 Is there a policy about organisational structures or equipment title for
grants?

For example, most non-profits have a requirement in their constitution
that, if they are wound up, they cannot disburse funds to members and must
instead allocate all remaining monies and assets to an organisation with
similar objectives.

I think it would be good for LA to require a statement to this effect where
it is purchasing assets as part of a grant, ie. that, should the
organisation cease to conduct the proposed activity or should the
organisation fold, the assets will either be returned to LA or donated to
another organisation with similar objectives.

Robert has put together a well-considered proposal but I do wonder what
happens to the equipment once the current effort ends (understanding also
that most IT equipment has a short shelf-life anyway).
-N

On 18 April 2017 at 09:26, Robert Manietta <Robert.Manietta at hsipswich.org.au
> wrote:

>
> Good Morning All,
>
>
> Please see our grant application for constructive comment and review.
>
>
> Regards
>
>
> Robert Manietta  |  Cause Leader  IT&T & Digital Fabrication
>
> HS Ipswich
>
> _______________________________________________
> linux-aus mailing list
> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au
> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus
>
>
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From mithro at mithis.com  Wed Apr 19 11:30:58 2017
From: mithro at mithis.com (Tim Ansell)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 11:30:58 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application 2017
In-Reply-To: <SY3PR01MB02509EB4D3F3AD932316EBE8CD060@SY3PR01MB0250.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SY3PR01MB0250FF2682664CC87A0F171ACD060@SY3PR01MB0250.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <SY3PR01MB02509EB4D3F3AD932316EBE8CD060@SY3PR01MB0250.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAHLUNMzm4nS1s2Wj0rnBVi1_tjELtyNYdmgoOmKwtddvxuMT6g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Robert,

Is HS Ipswich - "Hacker Space Ipswich"? I see no information in the
application about who "HS Ipswich Inc" is, who is involved in the group
(apart from the two people listed in the application), what the general aim
of the group is, etc. Would you be able to add some context around the
group?

Thanks

Tim 'mithro' Ansell



On 18 April 2017 at 09:26, Robert Manietta <Robert.Manietta at hsipswich.org.au
> wrote:

>
> Good Morning All,
>
>
> Please see our grant application for constructive comment and review.
>
>
> Regards
>
>
> Robert Manietta  |  Cause Leader  IT&T & Digital Fabrication
>
> HS Ipswich
>
> _______________________________________________
> linux-aus mailing list
> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au
> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus
>
>
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From andrew at donnellan.id.au  Wed Apr 19 12:00:12 2017
From: andrew at donnellan.id.au (Andrew Donnellan)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 12:00:12 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application 2017
In-Reply-To: <CAHLUNMzm4nS1s2Wj0rnBVi1_tjELtyNYdmgoOmKwtddvxuMT6g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SY3PR01MB0250FF2682664CC87A0F171ACD060@SY3PR01MB0250.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <SY3PR01MB02509EB4D3F3AD932316EBE8CD060@SY3PR01MB0250.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAHLUNMzm4nS1s2Wj0rnBVi1_tjELtyNYdmgoOmKwtddvxuMT6g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALn+=JrUZRJVNPy87kxQ+352vpAo_CR4g1nF=g5DSgrayZ54gQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 19 April 2017 at 11:30, Tim Ansell <mithro at mithis.com> wrote:
> Hi Robert,
>
> Is HS Ipswich - "Hacker Space Ipswich"? I see no information in the
> application about who "HS Ipswich Inc" is, who is involved in the group
> (apart from the two people listed in the application), what the general aim
> of the group is, etc. Would you be able to add some context around the
> group?

http://www.hsipswich.org/ may be of use.

>
> Thanks
>
> Tim 'mithro' Ansell
>
>
>
> On 18 April 2017 at 09:26, Robert Manietta
> <Robert.Manietta at hsipswich.org.au> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Good Morning All,
>>
>>
>> Please see our grant application for constructive comment and review.
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>> Robert Manietta  |  Cause Leader  IT&T & Digital Fabrication
>>
>> HS Ipswich
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> linux-aus mailing list
>> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au
>> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> linux-aus mailing list
> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au
> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus
>



-- 
Andrew Donnellan
http://andrew.donnellan.id.au         andrew at donnellan.id.au

From president at linux.org.au  Wed Apr 19 15:50:25 2017
From: president at linux.org.au (Linux Australia President)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 15:50:25 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Stemformatics application for the Linux Australia
 Grants Scheme
In-Reply-To: <CACSt7qkd9VpxcCtqbqG2csQO4eAwWr-BGsu5gKXmrcfFGFg6ww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACSt7qmi+5B+Da7j7XPNZ8miZG_M+=n7K9gKd6+tQaUdaEUjyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5005519.zjfqnDTL4Y@russell.coker.com.au>
 <CACSt7qkd9VpxcCtqbqG2csQO4eAwWr-BGsu5gKXmrcfFGFg6ww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dbe36d96-1ac6-a85f-3179-d9b0babbcdff@linux.org.au>

Hi everyone,

This is a courtesy note to indicate that Linux Australia Council
considered this Grant Application at Council Meeting 13th April.

We discussed this Grant Application, but we are undecided on whether to
grant it,  and would like to seek further information around the dataset
licensing and platform licensing, specifically the actual licenses that
will be applied.

Rowland, are you able to indicate this information?

Kind regards,

Kathy


On 01/04/17 09:05, Rowland Mosbergen wrote:
> Hi Russell,
>
> That question about dataset licensing is very good one that I have not
> thought of before.  Going forward I will do some research about where
> we are getting our data from and their licensing and choose a data
> license for our processed data and make it explicit on the website.
>
> All software will be put into a public bitbucket account alongside our
> current Stemformatics software.
>
> I can also see your point about /"Is there a risk that access to the
> curated data needed for the //application might be removed at some
> future time?"/. The processed data would be in the tens of TBs so
> would not be able to fit in github/bitbucket. This data will be
> treated the same as other research data as it will be hosted on NeCTAR
> / RDS services. The chances of that data being removed without
> oversight in the future would be greatly reduced  compared to hosting
> it on a commercial platform.
>
> Thanks again for your input Russell, I hope that I have answered your
> questions.
>
> Regards,
>
> Rowland
>
> ------------
>                     
> Rowland Mosbergen | Business Manager, Stemformatics
> Wells Laboratory | Centre for Stem Cell Systems
> Department of Anatomy and Neuroscience | Faculty of Medicine,
> Dentistry and Health Sciences
>
> Room 1.36, Level 1, Kenneth Myer Building
> The University of Melbourne, Victoria 3010 Australia
> T: +61 3 8344 6623 | E: rowland at stemformatics.org
> <mailto:rowland at stemformatics.org>
> W: www.stemformatics.org <http://www.stemformatics.org>  | Skype:
> rowland.stemformatics
>
> id:image001.jpg at 01D20A8D.3D4A4630
>
>  
>
> This email and any attachments may contain personal information or
>  information that is otherwise confidential or the subject of
> copyright. Any use, disclosure or copying of any part of it is
> prohibited. The University does not warrant that this email or any
> attachments are free from viruses or defects. Please check any
> attachments for viruses and defects before opening them. If this email
> is received in error please delete it and notify us by return email.
>
>  
>
> This email and any attachments may contain personal information or
>  information that is otherwise confidential or the subject of
> copyright. Any use, disclosure or copying of any part of it is
> prohibited. The University does not warrant that this email or any
> attachments are free from viruses or defects. Please check any
> attachments for viruses and defects before opening them. If this email
> is received in error please delete it and notify us by return email.
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 9:37 PM, Russell Coker <russell at coker.com.au
> <mailto:russell at coker.com.au>> wrote:
>
>     On Wednesday, 29 March 2017 5:46:12 PM AEDT Rowland Mosbergen wrote:
>     > Dear Linux Australia Council members and community,
>     >
>     > I would like to make a grant application for the Linux Australia
>     Grants
>     > Scheme on behalf of Stemformatics.
>     >
>     > You can view the application as a pdf (attached) or a link (below):
>     >
>     https://docs.google.com/document/d/15Hjv6EC6GA2A6_DQcOjv7zqubt96nBaqoV7YbeUN
>     <https://docs.google.com/document/d/15Hjv6EC6GA2A6_DQcOjv7zqubt96nBaqoV7YbeUN>
>     > CJg/edit?usp=sharing
>     >
>     > I only recently realised that I need to be a member of Linux
>     Australia to
>     > quality for this grant. I did apply on the 27th of March 2017 to
>     fulfil
>     > this criteria.
>     >
>     > Please let me know if any extra information is needed for this
>     application.
>
>     I think this is a very worthy project and the amount of money
>     requested seems
>     reasonable given the expected return.  But I have some concerns about
>     licensing and source access.
>
>     The PDF states that you will "create all of these under an open
>     source license
>     (Apache License, Version 2.0)".  What about the license of the
>     datasets that
>     you are using?  It's implied that you are getting them from other
>     organisations, do they have licenses that are compatible or are
>     you receiving
>     a license grant from those organisations that permits
>     redistributing the
>     bundle under the Apache license?  I expect that you will have
>     sorted this out
>     somehow, but I would like it made clear.
>
>     For the software that is produced, will you put it in a public
>     repository like
>     Github?  How big is the data?  Can the data fit in github or some
>     other public
>     repository?  Is there a risk that access to the curated data
>     needed for the
>     application might be removed at some future time?
>
>     Finally if this grant application is approved I suggest that we
>     make a further
>     offer of travel expenses if one of the developers of this project
>     is accepted
>     as a speaker at an LCA miniconf.  The general practice is that
>     speakers at the
>     main conference may be offered travel expenses from the LCA budget
>     but not for
>     miniconf speakers.  I think that we should make it a standard
>     practice that a
>     miniconf speaker who is speaking about work performed under an LA
>     grant should
>     be offered a further grant towards travel expenses from anywhere
>     in Australia
>     or NZ.
>
>     --
>     My Main Blog         http://etbe.coker.com.au/
>     My Documents Blog    http://doc.coker.com.au/
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> linux-aus mailing list
> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au
> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus

-- 
Kathy Reid
President
Linux Australia

0418 130 636

president at linux.org.au
http://linux.org.au

Linux Australia Inc
GPO Box 4788
Sydney NSW 2001
Australia

ABN 56 987 117 479 

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From president at linux.org.au  Wed Apr 19 16:01:18 2017
From: president at linux.org.au (Linux Australia President)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 16:01:18 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application - A grant to Moe Menshed (about
 to start)
In-Reply-To: <d4286be1-52e9-ea04-64a7-879da091d4d8@kathyreid.id.au>
References: <CAM0Cvf=AcQLb9f=9yXSBgLy65zveZD=KZ1e3YzqKdN+CL571uw@mail.gmail.com>
 <d4286be1-52e9-ea04-64a7-879da091d4d8@kathyreid.id.au>
Message-ID: <c76503fe-a8ae-3024-ed85-6d0ec30f69e4@linux.org.au>

Hi everyone,

Linux Australia considered this Grant Application at Council Meeting
13th April 2017 and is delighted to approve this Grant Application:

MOTION by Sae Ra Germaine that Linux Australia approves this grant at
the sum of $1000. It would be greatly appreciated if we could receive
the lesson plans for the lessons that are delivered so they can be
reused or repurposed for other similar groups.

Robert - please let us know the best way to work with the Moe Menshed to
acquit these funds.

Kind regards,

Kathy


On 24/03/17 10:04, Kathy Reid wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm forwarding this Grant Application on behalf of Robert Palmer
> (CC'd) - feedback on this Grant Application from the community is now
> open for two weeks.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Kathy
>
>
>
>
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> Subject: 	[LACTTE] A grant to Moe Menshed (about to start)
> Date: 	Fri, 17 Mar 2017 11:08:20 +1100
> From: 	Robert Palmer <rpalmer47 at gmail.com>
> To: 	council at linux.org.au
>
>
>
> Dear Linux Council,
>   Moe Menshed is just starting up.  I was a member of the Menshed in
> Wagga Wagga but was hit by a car when riding a bicycle, I was knocked
> unconscious for a week and broke my right leg.  I was flown to Sydney
> and then to Melbourne.  I came to Moe because I have some familly in
> the area.
>   I have met someone who is part of an attempt to start a Menshed in Moe.
>   His name is Collin Wootton, tel 03 5127 3693.  I understand that
> they have a building chosen but not much installed.  In Wagga Wagga
> the Menshed had a very extensive building with much very expensive
> fitting and turning machinery that was very competently run by a group
> of old men.  They also had a computer room which had more users than
> the workshop.  I would like the Moe Menshed to start up with a
> computer room.  For that to happen we need a few computer experts
> preferably, I hope with enthusiasm for and knowledge of Linux as well
> as Windows. 
>   I have met a young bloke in Moe whose knowledge of Linux is much
> greater than mine. his name is Luke and he teaches mostly bored
> housewives in a few classes.  I am surprised to find someone in Moe
> with more knowledge of Linux than I have.  He also is much better,
> than I am, at getting information from the Internet and has a good
> knowledge of modern computers which I for one, lack badly.  He teaches
> in Moe Neighbourhood House in Elizabeth st.
>   If he was in the Menshed when it is starting up and answering
> questions, it would be a good thing.  Many people have older computers
> which will not run Windows 10 but will run Linux, eg Mint, Mate or
> Ubuntu.  Rather than spend about $1000 on a new computer they would do
> better to install Linux.  He would be able to tell them how to do this. 
>   The computer room would need a Router (Modem) with connections for
> at least four computers and a telephone for the Menshed
> administration.  I don't know what is being done about this.  Collin
> Wootton 03 5127 3693 should be able to tell you this.
>   I do not know what teachers are payed but I would think that if he
> got $100 for two hour lessons for about ten weeks, it would be very
> helpful.
> Yours Robert Palmer at rpalmer47 at gmail.com <mailto:rpalmer47 at gmail.com>
>  
>  
>
>
> -- 
> Robert Palmer
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> linux-aus mailing list
> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au
> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus

-- 
Kathy Reid
President
Linux Australia

0418 130 636

president at linux.org.au
http://linux.org.au

Linux Australia Inc
GPO Box 4788
Sydney NSW 2001
Australia

ABN 56 987 117 479 

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From president at linux.org.au  Wed Apr 19 16:04:33 2017
From: president at linux.org.au (Linux Australia President)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 16:04:33 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Grant Application: Promotion of FOSS in
 undergraduate Computer Science,
 Information Technology and Software Engineering degrees at the University of
 Newcastle
In-Reply-To: <39B715D9-C4A5-4385-BF2A-180373AE662C@newcastle.edu.au>
References: <640DE4BF-ECAC-491F-A061-CC9C7BF3B3C7@newcastle.edu.au>
 <20170409121339.6x3lv2ccubg3mlho@rosewood.mcwhirter.io>
 <39B715D9-C4A5-4385-BF2A-180373AE662C@newcastle.edu.au>
Message-ID: <8d3f5770-e862-6b07-b3e7-2ac03995c320@linux.org.au>

Hi everyone,

This is a courtesy note to indicate that feedback on this Grant
Application closed on 17th April, and Council is due to discuss it at
Council meeting 30th April.

Thank you to all community members who have provided feedback.

Kind regards,

Kathy


On 10/04/17 10:01, Mark Wallis wrote:
> Good morning Craige
>
>> Being a sysadmin by habit and trade, I cannot help but consider ongoing
>> maintenance of the materials that are produced by the project and wonder what
>> thoughts you might have on the matter.
>>
>> Would maintenance of the materials be minor tweaks made as part of "business as
>> usual" or would you envisage that further grants my be required at $INTERVAL to
>> keep materials current?
> I expect it to be BAU. Each lecturer at UoN has a mandate to review all content from the previous year?s running of the course and ?update? it before the new teaching semester starts. If the job to update it is too large then there is generally funding available within the school to hire a student to assist with the work.
>
> Out of interest, if I was trying to address this particular problem for an individual course then that is actually the approach I would use - approach the lecturer and then use school funding to hire a student. With this grant though I?m trying to address the issue across at least the first 2 years worth of core subjects of three degree?s - so the scale is a little different, hence why I?m approaching LA for funding. I don?t expect the job to be of this scale once we clear the first hurdle with this funding.
>
> Thanks for the interest :-)
>
> Regards,
> Mark.
> ===============================
> Dr. Mark Wallis (Associate Lecturer)
>
> School of Electrical Engineering and Computing
> Faculty of Engineering and Built Environment
> The University of Newcastle, Callaghan, 2308, NSW
> AUSTRALIA
>
> Webpage:
> https://www.newcastle.edu.au/profile/mark-wallis
> _______________________________________________
> linux-aus mailing list
> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au
> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus

-- 
Kathy Reid
President
Linux Australia

0418 130 636

president at linux.org.au
http://linux.org.au

Linux Australia Inc
GPO Box 4788
Sydney NSW 2001
Australia

ABN 56 987 117 479 


From rowland at stemformatics.org  Wed Apr 19 16:15:10 2017
From: rowland at stemformatics.org (Rowland Mosbergen)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 16:15:10 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Stemformatics application for the Linux Australia
 Grants Scheme
In-Reply-To: <dbe36d96-1ac6-a85f-3179-d9b0babbcdff@linux.org.au>
References: <CACSt7qmi+5B+Da7j7XPNZ8miZG_M+=n7K9gKd6+tQaUdaEUjyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5005519.zjfqnDTL4Y@russell.coker.com.au>
 <CACSt7qkd9VpxcCtqbqG2csQO4eAwWr-BGsu5gKXmrcfFGFg6ww@mail.gmail.com>
 <dbe36d96-1ac6-a85f-3179-d9b0babbcdff@linux.org.au>
Message-ID: <CACSt7q=_tTp6mDRxukr0sQA0P_5Gfwdi3CV3vZRw8bvtnixu2Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Kathy,

I can confirm that for the datasets we will be using the CC BY-SA 4.0
license:
*https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/
<https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/>*

I can also confirm that for the code we will be using the Apache 2.0
license:
http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0

I would like to add that we are considering moving our code licensing from
an Apache 2.0 license to a GNU AGPLv3 or GNU GPLv3.  This may impact on
this particular piece of code in the near future.

Regards,

Rowland

------------

Rowland Mosbergen | Business Manager, Stemformatics
Wells Laboratory | Centre for Stem Cell Systems
Department of Anatomy and Neuroscience | Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry and
Health Sciences

Room 1.36, Level 1, Kenneth Myer Building
The University of Melbourne, Victoria 3010 Australia
T: +61 3 8344 6623 | E: rowland at stemformatics.org
W: www.stemformatics.org  | Skype: rowland.stemformatics

[image: id:image001.jpg at 01D20A8D.3D4A4630]



This email and any attachments may contain personal information or
 information that is otherwise confidential or the subject of copyright.
Any use, disclosure or copying of any part of it is prohibited. The
University does not warrant that this email or any attachments are free
from viruses or defects. Please check any attachments for viruses and
defects before opening them. If this email is received in error please
delete it and notify us by return email.



This email and any attachments may contain personal information or
 information that is otherwise confidential or the subject of copyright.
Any use, disclosure or copying of any part of it is prohibited. The
University does not warrant that this email or any attachments are free
from viruses or defects. Please check any attachments for viruses and
defects before opening them. If this email is received in error please
delete it and notify us by return email.

On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 3:50 PM, Linux Australia President <
president at linux.org.au> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> This is a courtesy note to indicate that Linux Australia Council
> considered this Grant Application at Council Meeting 13th April.
>
> We discussed this Grant Application, but we are undecided on whether to
> grant it,  and would like to seek further information around the dataset
> licensing and platform licensing, specifically the actual licenses that
> will be applied.
>
> Rowland, are you able to indicate this information?
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Kathy
>
> On 01/04/17 09:05, Rowland Mosbergen wrote:
>
> Hi Russell,
>
> That question about dataset licensing is very good one that I have not
> thought of before.  Going forward I will do some research about where we
> are getting our data from and their licensing and choose a data license for
> our processed data and make it explicit on the website.
>
> All software will be put into a public bitbucket account alongside our
> current Stemformatics software.
>
> I can also see your point about *"Is there a risk that access to the
> curated data needed for the **application might be removed at some future
> time?"*. The processed data would be in the tens of TBs so would not be
> able to fit in github/bitbucket. This data will be treated the same as
> other research data as it will be hosted on NeCTAR / RDS services. The
> chances of that data being removed without oversight in the future would be
> greatly reduced  compared to hosting it on a commercial platform.
>
> Thanks again for your input Russell, I hope that I have answered your
> questions.
>
> Regards,
>
> Rowland
>
> ------------
>
> Rowland Mosbergen | Business Manager, Stemformatics
> Wells Laboratory | Centre for Stem Cell Systems
> Department of Anatomy and Neuroscience | Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry
> and Health Sciences
>
> Room 1.36, Level 1, Kenneth Myer Building
> The University of Melbourne, Victoria 3010 Australia
> T: +61 3 8344 6623 | E: rowland at stemformatics.org
> W: www.stemformatics.org  | Skype: rowland.stemformatics
>
> [image: id:image001.jpg at 01D20A8D.3D4A4630]
>
>
>
> This email and any attachments may contain personal information or
>  information that is otherwise confidential or the subject of copyright.
> Any use, disclosure or copying of any part of it is prohibited. The
> University does not warrant that this email or any attachments are free
> from viruses or defects. Please check any attachments for viruses and
> defects before opening them. If this email is received in error please
> delete it and notify us by return email.
>
>
>
> This email and any attachments may contain personal information or
>  information that is otherwise confidential or the subject of copyright.
> Any use, disclosure or copying of any part of it is prohibited. The
> University does not warrant that this email or any attachments are free
> from viruses or defects. Please check any attachments for viruses and
> defects before opening them. If this email is received in error please
> delete it and notify us by return email.
>
> On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 9:37 PM, Russell Coker <russell at coker.com.au>
> wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, 29 March 2017 5:46:12 PM AEDT Rowland Mosbergen wrote:
>> > Dear Linux Australia Council members and community,
>> >
>> > I would like to make a grant application for the Linux Australia Grants
>> > Scheme on behalf of Stemformatics.
>> >
>> > You can view the application as a pdf (attached) or a link (below):
>> > https://docs.google.com/document/d/15Hjv6EC6GA2A6_DQcOjv7zqu
>> bt96nBaqoV7YbeUN
>> > CJg/edit?usp=sharing
>> >
>> > I only recently realised that I need to be a member of Linux Australia
>> to
>> > quality for this grant. I did apply on the 27th of March 2017 to fulfil
>> > this criteria.
>> >
>> > Please let me know if any extra information is needed for this
>> application.
>>
>> I think this is a very worthy project and the amount of money requested
>> seems
>> reasonable given the expected return.  But I have some concerns about
>> licensing and source access.
>>
>> The PDF states that you will "create all of these under an open source
>> license
>> (Apache License, Version 2.0)".  What about the license of the datasets
>> that
>> you are using?  It's implied that you are getting them from other
>> organisations, do they have licenses that are compatible or are you
>> receiving
>> a license grant from those organisations that permits redistributing the
>> bundle under the Apache license?  I expect that you will have sorted this
>> out
>> somehow, but I would like it made clear.
>>
>> For the software that is produced, will you put it in a public repository
>> like
>> Github?  How big is the data?  Can the data fit in github or some other
>> public
>> repository?  Is there a risk that access to the curated data needed for
>> the
>> application might be removed at some future time?
>>
>> Finally if this grant application is approved I suggest that we make a
>> further
>> offer of travel expenses if one of the developers of this project is
>> accepted
>> as a speaker at an LCA miniconf.  The general practice is that speakers
>> at the
>> main conference may be offered travel expenses from the LCA budget but
>> not for
>> miniconf speakers.  I think that we should make it a standard practice
>> that a
>> miniconf speaker who is speaking about work performed under an LA grant
>> should
>> be offered a further grant towards travel expenses from anywhere in
>> Australia
>> or NZ.
>>
>> --
>> My Main Blog         http://etbe.coker.com.au/
>> My Documents Blog    http://doc.coker.com.au/
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> linux-aus mailing listlinux-aus at lists.linux.org.auhttp://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus
>
>
> --
> Kathy Reid
> President
> Linux Australia
>
> 0418 130 636
> president at linux.org.auhttp://linux.org.au
>
> Linux Australia Inc
> GPO Box 4788
> Sydney NSW 2001
> Australia
>
> ABN 56 987 117 479
>
>
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From cfp at ruxcon.org.au  Thu Apr 20 10:42:52 2017
From: cfp at ruxcon.org.au (cfp at ruxcon.org.au)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 10:42:52 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Ruxcon 2017 Call For Presentations
Message-ID: <20170420004252.03203158039@ruxcon.org.au>

Ruxcon 2017 Call For Presentations
Melbourne, Australia, October 21-22
CQ Function Centre

http://www.ruxcon.org.au

The Ruxcon team is pleased to announce the first round of Call For Presentations for Ruxcon 2017.

This year the conference will take place over the weekend of the 21st and 22nd of October at the CQ Function Centre, Melbourne, Australia.

The deadline for submissions is the 30th of June, 2017.


.[x]. About Ruxcon .[x]. 

Ruxcon is ia premier technical computer security conference in the Australia. The conference aims to bring together the individual talents of the best and brightest security folk in the region, through live presentations, activities and demonstrations.

The conference is held over two days in a relaxed atmosphere, allowing attendees to enjoy themselves whilst networking within the community and expanding their knowledge of security.

Live presentations and activities will cover a full range of defensive and offensive security topics, varying from previously unpublished research to required reading for the security community. 


.[x]. Important Dates .[x].

 June 30 - Call For Presentations Close
 October 18-20 - Ruxcon Training
 October 21-22 - Ruxcon Conference


.[x]. Topic Scope .[x].

 o Topics of interest include, but are not limited to:
 o Mobile Device Security
 o Virtualization, Hypervisor, and Cloud Security
 o Malware Analysis
 o Reverse Engineering
 o Exploitation Techniques
 o Rootkit Development
 o Code Analysis
 o Forensics and Anti-Forensics
 o Embedded Device Security
 o Web Application Security
 o Network Traffic Analysis
 o Wireless Network Security
 o Cryptography and Cryptanalysis
 o Social Engineering
 o Law Enforcement Activities
 o Telecommunications Security (SS7, 3G/4G, GSM, VOIP, etc)


.[x]. Submission Guidelines .[x].

In order for us to process your submission we require the following information:

 1. Presentation title
 2. Detailed summary of your presentation material
 3. Name/Nickname
 4. Mobile phone number
 5. Brief personal biography
 6. Description of any demonstrations involved in the presentation
 7. Information on where the presentation material has or will be presented before Ruxcon

 To submit a presentation please use our submission form: https://goo.gl/75WhtZ

* As a general guideline, Ruxcon presentations are between 45 and 60 minutes, including question time. 
 

.[x]. Contact .[x].

 o Email: presentations at ruxcon.org.au
 o Twitter: @ruxcon
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From gabor at cryptoaustralia.org.au  Thu Apr 20 16:43:17 2017
From: gabor at cryptoaustralia.org.au (Gabor Szathmari)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 16:43:17 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] =?utf-8?q?Grant_application=3A_Setting_up_and_operati?=
 =?utf-8?q?ng_a_=E2=80=98Mastodon=E2=80=99_node_for_the_Australian_online_?=
 =?utf-8?q?community?=
Message-ID: <53C85607-A026-4753-94E7-21B574FB2A67@cryptoaustralia.org.au>

Dear Linux Australia members,

Please find my grant application enclosed. Should you have any questions, please let me know.

Download link: https://web.tresorit.com/l#uY3rHF1zUIWldQ0i6c4GiQ

Regards,
Gabor Szathmari
President, CryptoAUSTRALIA

e: gabor at cryptoaustralia.org.au
m: +61 402 401 424
w: https://cryptoaustralia.org.au
pgp: 0326 DE9F DA20 A691 438B  A58D 2B82 69F2 1A8C CB7A
keybase: https://keybase.io/gszathmari

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From president at linux.org.au  Fri Apr 21 12:09:48 2017
From: president at linux.org.au (Linux Australia President)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 12:09:48 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Update on a few Linux Australia activities
Message-ID: <767482ae-767d-dbdf-d2cb-c1808f1ce6e0@linux.org.au>

Hi everyone,

Hope this note finds you all well, and as we head into another long
weekend, please do stay that way.

As always, we're committed to keeping our membership up to date on Linux
Aus Council activities, both in the interests of transparency and
openness, but also to keep touching base with our membership and
ensuring our activities are in line with what you, our membership, would
like us to be doing.


        VALA Tech Camp, Melbourne, July 2017

Linux Australia is partnering with VALA to provide a $2500 Diversity
Scholarship to VALA Tech Camp, to be held in Melbourne in July. The
event has a strong open technologies focus for the Library sector. The
Scholarship will be focussed on under-represented cohorts such as
Indigenous and rural and regional practitioners. We're working through
the specific wording, and more details will be available shortly. Linux
Australia will also be helping to deliver some content around open APIs
on the day, and we've reached out to the Melbourne Python community -
who have responded brilliantly - to deliver some introductory Python
content.  I'd like to thank Hugh Rundle and Lesley Ryall at VALA for
their professionalism and desire to help libraries and technology
intersect.

https://portal.vala.org.au/page-18116


        Discussions with Internet Australia, IT Professionals
        Association and Telecommunications Society regarding 'what
        happens after NBN'

Led by George Fong from Internet Australia, several organisations have
met recently to discuss what happens after the NBN rollout. I will not
insult your intelligence by recapping those issues here, other than to
say that some critical thinking at a national policy level is required
to understand how Australia's digital infrastructure will be shaped
beyond 2020. Linux Australia is delighted to be working with our
colleagues across the Australian technology landscape to drive some of
these conversations, and I'd like to flag that a more formal
announcement is being prepared. As always, your comment and feedback
will be actively sought.


        Linux Australia Grants Programme

The Council, after considering community feedback, has recently awarded
a $1000 grant to Moe Men's shed, who are in early stages of development,
to deliver some introductory open source information. We have also
considered a grant from Stemformatics at the University of Melbourne
(more info requested and provided, now for discussion at Council) and
University of Newcastle to deliver open source information in the
curriculum (tabled for discussion April 30th). Another Grant Application
has recently been received from CryptoAustralia to set up a Mastodon
node for the Australian community.

As always, we appreciate the community's feedback into these
Applications to ensure their alignment with our values.

More Grant Applications are expected in the coming weeks.

https://linux.org.au/projects/grants


        Partnering with WordCamp to help facilitate WordPress related
        activities in Australia

These discussions have been incredibly fruitful and have now progressed
to WordCamp and Linux Australia working on a draft Memorandum of
Understanding to frame the partnership. The draft MoU is being
socialised between the two organisations and further updates will be
provided. If anyone from our community would like to be involved in this
piece, please do let me know.


        linux.conf.au 2018 Ghosts in Sydney

Ghosts was held in Sydney in early April, and I'd like to thank firstly
the LCA2018 team, headed by Bruce Crawley and James Polley, and our
incredible Ghosts and assurance team - Michael Davies, Steve Walsh,
Cherie Ellis, Josh Stewart, Hugh Blemings, David Bell and Katie
McLaughlin. An LCA2019 representative from $super_secret_city was also
in attendance to assist with transition and continuity. Ghosts is an
important activity both to impart useful knowledge and tips, and to
provide Linux Australia with a level of assurance about the readiness of
the team to execute our flagship event. LCA2018 passed with flying
colours, and is on track to deliver an incredible experience.

You can follow the conference on Facebook at

https://www.facebook.com/linuxconferenceaustralia/

and on Twitter at

https://twitter.com/linuxconfau


        JoomlaDay Australia Sydney 17-18th June

Tickets are now available for JoomDay Day Australia in Sydney

http://joomladay.org.au/

Huge thanks to Tim Plummer for his incredible organisation work.

Follow along on Twitter @JoomlaDayAU


        WordCamp Brisbane July 22-23

Preparations are well under way for WordCamp Brisbane, and tickets are
now available at

https://2017.brisbane.wordcamp.org/tickets/

Huge thanks to the organising team - Dion Hulse, Ricky Blacker, Cameron
Jones, Hannah Malcolm, Peter Bui and Robert Wilde.

Follow along on Twitter @wordcampbne


        Pycon AU Melbourne August 3-8

The CfP for Pycon AU is now open!

https://2017.pycon-au.org/

Get submitting!


        Rebranding

Council has been hard at work on a Rebranding Brief, which will help
support the transition to a new Membership Platform and web presence.
We're currently revising the Brief before seeking quotes. If anyone
would like to be involved in this process please do let me know.


        Facebook page

Linux Australia now has our own Facebook page at

https://www.facebook.com/LinuxAustralia/


As always, your feedback, comments, suggestions and constructive
criticism is warmly welcomed.

With kind regards,
Kathy



-- 
Kathy Reid
President
Linux Australia

0418 130 636

president at linux.org.au
http://linux.org.au

Linux Australia Inc
GPO Box 4788
Sydney NSW 2001
Australia

ABN 56 987 117 479 

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From paul.j.fenwick at gmail.com  Mon Apr 24 03:17:37 2017
From: paul.j.fenwick at gmail.com (Paul Fenwick)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 17:17:37 +0000
Subject: [Linux-aus] [Grant Application] Comprehensive Kerbal Archive Network
Message-ID: <CA+6jtDJbOH200LRiziKxq8mrusiLPcY9xO0Huo5trmJUx9zWWg@mail.gmail.com>

G?day Linux Australia council and members,

In August 2014 I founded the Comprehensive Kerbal Archive Network (KSP-CKAN
<https://github.com/KSP-CKAN/CKAN>), a modifications (mod) manager for the
popular Kerbal Space Program game by Squad. Inspired by the Debian
packaging system, my goal was to create a system that would allow players
to easily install mods and keep them up-to-date, supported by rich metadata
so players could be assured they were getting the right packages for their
system, including dependency management and upgrade paths.

My not so secret mission was to inspire a new generation to be excited
about space exploration and research.

By creating a cross-platform (Mac/Linux/Windows), open-source (MIT) client
and associated metadata (CC-0), the project has been a resounding success.
We?ve attracted over 300 contributors, brought delight to well over 120,000
users, indexed thousands of mods, and measure our success in decades of
human joy delivered per month.

Most of the mods we index are also free and open source, and we handle the
automatic preservation of these in conjunction with the Internet Archive.
The KSP-CKAN is especially important for people using Kerbal Space Program
for planning and simulating real space travel, using the Realism Overhaul
stack. This provides an exact simulation of the solar system, authentic
hardware, and faithfully modelled aerodynamics. We?ve had NASA employees
personally devote their time to improving both the KSP-CKAN and associated
systems.

As we do not track our users, it?s hard to *directly* measure our project
success in terms of mods delivered, but we can use the number of client
downloads and user contributions as a proxy. Since early 2016 we?ve
routinely had over 100,000 downloads with each significant release, and
over the last month <https://github.com/KSP-CKAN/NetKAN/pulse/monthly>
we?ve had dozens of contributors working on our metadata and code.

For the last two years, AWS have been kind enough to sponsor our compute
costs, which are primarily used for the automated indexing of mods.
However, that sponsorship has recently expired, and due to a change in
contacts at AWS we?ve been unsuccessful at getting it reviewed.

While I?ve stepped down as mission director, I?m still the legal entity
responsible for hosting costs, and I'm very much supportive of the project
and its goals. We're extremely fortunate to have Leon Wright as our prime
infrastructure person. Leon is active in PLUG and the Perth open source
community, has been instrumental in handling the video processing
<http://www.techman83.me/programming/2014/01/20/eventstreamr.html> of past
LCAs, and has kept our systems running for years.

Our expenses are very modest; about $30 USD/month covers all our hosting
and compute costs. Because the amount is so small, we?re hoping to have
them covered by a single sponsor rather than via crowd-funding, as this
keeps our administrative overheads to a minimum.

To help us while we find another infrastructure sponsor, I?d like to apply
for a Linux Australia grant to secure the KSP-CKAN?s hosting for another
year. If at all possible, I would like to request the grant be paid in
arrears (after the costs have been incurrred), and only for the actual
costs of hosting. This both reduces our administrative work, and means
we're not asking LA for more funding than we genuinely need.

If we find an infrastructure sponsor before the end of the grant period,
then we?ll only be asking for funding up until the changeover date. Of
course, we welcome any LA member or organisation that wishes to cover our
entire infrastructure costs for a year or more, but we'll cast our net more
widely if need be.

For this grant application, I?d like to request a maximum of $600 USD ($800
AUD) over the twelve months ending 30th April 2018 to help with our
infrastructure. This is more than our projected expenses ($360 USD / $500
AUD) simply so we have some breathing space.

As mentioned, we?ll only be seeking reimbursement for costs actually
incurred.

Many thanks again for your consideration, and I look forward to answering
any questions you may have.

Paul Fenwick
Founder, Comprehensive Kerbal Archive Network
?
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From craige at mcwhirter.com.au  Mon Apr 24 08:41:10 2017
From: craige at mcwhirter.com.au (Craige McWhirter)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 08:41:10 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] [Grant Application] Comprehensive Kerbal Archive
 Network
In-Reply-To: <CA+6jtDJbOH200LRiziKxq8mrusiLPcY9xO0Huo5trmJUx9zWWg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+6jtDJbOH200LRiziKxq8mrusiLPcY9xO0Huo5trmJUx9zWWg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20170423224110.7gr3ueehld7ziqqp@rosewood.mcwhirter.io>

G'day Paul! I been keeping track of CKAN and love what you've done there. Great
work :-)

My question and I may have missed it in your email, is what are your actual
infrastructure requirements?

The costs seem reasonable but it would be good to also know what those costs
are providing. It would also help others know what they needed to provide if
they wanted to do some hosting for you.

Thanks!

On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 17:17:37 +0000, Paul Fenwick wrote:
>    G?day Linux Australia council and members,
>
>    In August 2014 I founded the Comprehensive Kerbal Archive Network
>    ([1]KSP-CKAN), a modifications (mod) manager for the popular Kerbal Space
>    Program game by Squad. Inspired by the Debian packaging system, my goal
>    was to create a system that would allow players to easily install mods and
>    keep them up-to-date, supported by rich metadata so players could be
>    assured they were getting the right packages for their system, including
>    dependency management and upgrade paths.
>
>    My not so secret mission was to inspire a new generation to be excited
>    about space exploration and research.
>
>    By creating a cross-platform (Mac/Linux/Windows), open-source (MIT) client
>    and associated metadata (CC-0), the project has been a resounding success.
>    We?ve attracted over 300 contributors, brought delight to well over
>    120,000 users, indexed thousands of mods, and measure our success in
>    decades of human joy delivered per month.
>
>    Most of the mods we index are also free and open source, and we handle the
>    automatic preservation of these in conjunction with the Internet Archive.
>    The KSP-CKAN is especially important for people using Kerbal Space Program
>    for planning and simulating real space travel, using the Realism Overhaul
>    stack. This provides an exact simulation of the solar system, authentic
>    hardware, and faithfully modelled aerodynamics. We?ve had NASA employees
>    personally devote their time to improving both the KSP-CKAN and associated
>    systems.
>
>    As we do not track our users, it?s hard to directly measure our project
>    success in terms of mods delivered, but we can use the number of client
>    downloads and user contributions as a proxy. Since early 2016 we?ve
>    routinely had over 100,000 downloads with each significant release, and
>    over the [2]last month we?ve had dozens of contributors working on our
>    metadata and code.
>
>    For the last two years, AWS have been kind enough to sponsor our compute
>    costs, which are primarily used for the automated indexing of mods.
>    However, that sponsorship has recently expired, and due to a change in
>    contacts at AWS we?ve been unsuccessful at getting it reviewed.
>
>    While I?ve stepped down as mission director, I?m still the legal entity
>    responsible for hosting costs, and I'm very much supportive of the project
>    and its goals. We're extremely fortunate to have Leon Wright as our prime
>    infrastructure person. Leon is active in PLUG and the Perth open source
>    community, has been instrumental in [3]handling the video processing of
>    past LCAs, and has kept our systems running for years.
>
>    Our expenses are very modest; about $30 USD/month covers all our hosting
>    and compute costs. Because the amount is so small, we?re hoping to have
>    them covered by a single sponsor rather than via crowd-funding, as this
>    keeps our administrative overheads to a minimum.
>
>    To help us while we find another infrastructure sponsor, I?d like to apply
>    for a Linux Australia grant to secure the KSP-CKAN?s hosting for another
>    year. If at all possible, I would like to request the grant be paid in
>    arrears (after the costs have been incurrred), and only for the actual
>    costs of hosting. This both reduces our administrative work, and means
>    we're not asking LA for more funding than we genuinely need.
>
>    If we find an infrastructure sponsor before the end of the grant period,
>    then we?ll only be asking for funding up until the changeover date. Of
>    course, we welcome any LA member or organisation that wishes to cover our
>    entire infrastructure costs for a year or more, but we'll cast our net
>    more widely if need be.
>
>    For this grant application, I?d like to request a maximum of $600 USD
>    ($800 AUD) over the twelve months ending 30th April 2018 to help with our
>    infrastructure. This is more than our projected expenses ($360 USD / $500
>    AUD) simply so we have some breathing space.
>
>    As mentioned, we?ll only be seeking reimbursement for costs actually
>    incurred.
>
>    Many thanks again for your consideration, and I look forward to answering
>    any questions you may have.
>
>    Paul Fenwick
>    Founder, Comprehensive Kerbal Archive Network
>
>    ?
>
> References
>
>    Visible links
>    1. https://github.com/KSP-CKAN/CKAN
>    2. https://github.com/KSP-CKAN/NetKAN/pulse/monthly
>    3. http://www.techman83.me/programming/2014/01/20/eventstreamr.html

> _______________________________________________
> linux-aus mailing list
> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au
> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus


--
Craige McWhirter
M: +61 4685 91819
W: https://mcwhirter.com.au/
GNUSocial: https://social.mcwhirter.io/craige
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From techman83 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 25 13:12:02 2017
From: techman83 at gmail.com (Leon Wright)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 11:12:02 +0800
Subject: [Linux-aus] [Grant Application] Comprehensive Kerbal Archive
	Network
In-Reply-To: <20170423224110.7gr3ueehld7ziqqp@rosewood.mcwhirter.io>
References: <CA+6jtDJbOH200LRiziKxq8mrusiLPcY9xO0Huo5trmJUx9zWWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170423224110.7gr3ueehld7ziqqp@rosewood.mcwhirter.io>
Message-ID: <CAGHRBmSBRp_Zu-Y=QxaZLJcat0oYegKk0h5o-S7DL7j7LuJpzQ@mail.gmail.com>

G'day Craige,

On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 6:41 AM, Craige McWhirter <craige at mcwhirter.com.au>
wrote:

> My question and I may have missed it in your email, is what are your actual
> infrastructure requirements?
>

The infrastructure is deliberately light, the short breakdown is:

   1. Continuous Integration tests for Metadata via a Jenkins Instance
   - https://ci.ksp-ckan.org/
   2. Automated mod indexing and mirroring instance
   - https://github.com/KSP-CKAN/NetKAN-bot
   - http://status.ksp-ckan.org/
   - https://archive.org/details/kspckanmods
   3. Some minor DNS/S3/SES + traffic costs

Leon Wright
Infrastructure Lead, Comprehensive Kerbal Archive Network
--
DRM 'manages access' in the same way that jail 'manages freedom.'
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From mithro at mithis.com  Wed Apr 26 12:33:36 2017
From: mithro at mithis.com (Tim Ansell)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2017 12:33:36 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] [Grant Application] Comprehensive Kerbal Archive
	Network
In-Reply-To: <CAGHRBmSBRp_Zu-Y=QxaZLJcat0oYegKk0h5o-S7DL7j7LuJpzQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+6jtDJbOH200LRiziKxq8mrusiLPcY9xO0Huo5trmJUx9zWWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170423224110.7gr3ueehld7ziqqp@rosewood.mcwhirter.io>
 <CAGHRBmSBRp_Zu-Y=QxaZLJcat0oYegKk0h5o-S7DL7j7LuJpzQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHLUNMyGPSzbCKcqwBz7Tk5ZuKVAraFmmn=w1dKrD=sLLk3sxA@mail.gmail.com>

I have never played Kerbal Space Program but watched way to many videos of
the program. I do support this grant proposal and think it should probably
be funded due to the modest costs but do have a couple of questions.

I want to confirm that while ckan is open source, Kerbal Space Program
itself is a closed source program made by a commercial developer? ckan
itself is currently not useful without purchasing KSP? The commercial
developer is also not able to cover the required hosting?

Would having *more* funds/compute resources then currently avaliable
improve things in any way? (IE Increase developer productivity, allow more
advanced features, etc)? Are you requesting the bare minimum, the current
usage, or with some plan for growth?

Thanks for all your awesome work!

Tim 'mithro' Ansell


On 25 April 2017 at 13:12, Leon Wright <techman83 at gmail.com> wrote:

> G'day Craige,
>
> On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 6:41 AM, Craige McWhirter <craige at mcwhirter.com.au
> > wrote:
>
>> My question and I may have missed it in your email, is what are your
>> actual
>> infrastructure requirements?
>>
>
> The infrastructure is deliberately light, the short breakdown is:
>
>    1. Continuous Integration tests for Metadata via a Jenkins Instance
>    - https://ci.ksp-ckan.org/
>    2. Automated mod indexing and mirroring instance
>    - https://github.com/KSP-CKAN/NetKAN-bot
>    - http://status.ksp-ckan.org/
>    - https://archive.org/details/kspckanmods
>    3. Some minor DNS/S3/SES + traffic costs
>
> Leon Wright
> Infrastructure Lead, Comprehensive Kerbal Archive Network
> --
> DRM 'manages access' in the same way that jail 'manages freedom.'
>
> _______________________________________________
> linux-aus mailing list
> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au
> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus
>
>
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From paul.j.fenwick at gmail.com  Wed Apr 26 15:28:57 2017
From: paul.j.fenwick at gmail.com (Paul Fenwick)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2017 05:28:57 +0000
Subject: [Linux-aus] [Grant Application] Comprehensive Kerbal Archive
	Network
In-Reply-To: <CAHLUNMyGPSzbCKcqwBz7Tk5ZuKVAraFmmn=w1dKrD=sLLk3sxA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+6jtDJbOH200LRiziKxq8mrusiLPcY9xO0Huo5trmJUx9zWWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170423224110.7gr3ueehld7ziqqp@rosewood.mcwhirter.io>
 <CAGHRBmSBRp_Zu-Y=QxaZLJcat0oYegKk0h5o-S7DL7j7LuJpzQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHLUNMyGPSzbCKcqwBz7Tk5ZuKVAraFmmn=w1dKrD=sLLk3sxA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+6jtDLJNq4oBH0CQsiYz-+63UVwRjCTR-HAcOJpzieFPCE5Hg@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Tim!

I want to confirm that while ckan is open source, Kerbal Space Program
itself is a closed source program made by a commercial developer? ckan
itself is currently not useful without purchasing KSP? The commercial
developer is also not able to cover the required hosting?

KSP is indeed a closed source, commercial program, made by Squad. You would
think it would be easy to ask them to cover our hosting costs, but it turns
out things are pretty complicated. Squad have Curse as their Official Mod
Partner, and it wouldn?t surprise me if there?s an exclusive contract
associated with this. When you fire up the game, there?s an ?Add-ons and
Mods? link, and it takes you to Curse.

That ends up making it more complicated for Squad to be seen as endorsing
anyone other than Curse for mods, and funding falls pretty hard into the
endorsement category.

On our end, there?s a lot to be said for having independence. While the
sort of funding we?re asking for is unlikely to be a big influencer, we?re
able to work pretty hard in the interests of our users.

Would having *more* funds/compute resources then currently avaliable
improve things in any way? (IE Increase developer productivity, allow more
advanced features, etc)? Are you requesting the bare minimum, the current
usage, or with some plan for growth?

This request is specifically for infrastructure, and we?re asking for
funding that provides a modest capacity for growth in case we need it. Leon
may correct me if I?m wrong, but our status page
<http://status.ksp-ckan.org/> shows that we?re able to do a full mod
indexing every two hours. If we doubled our compute expenses I?m sure we
could halve that, and while that would be great for players who want to
install a mod in the same hour it?s released, adding lots of cycles gives
diminishing returns overall. In other words, we?re not starving for
resources.

There?s a whole other discussion about funding developers and new features.
but that?s not what we?re asking for with this grant. :)

~ Paul
?
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From techman83 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 26 19:16:05 2017
From: techman83 at gmail.com (Leon Wright)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2017 17:16:05 +0800
Subject: [Linux-aus] [Grant Application] Comprehensive Kerbal Archive
	Network
In-Reply-To: <CA+6jtDLJNq4oBH0CQsiYz-+63UVwRjCTR-HAcOJpzieFPCE5Hg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+6jtDJbOH200LRiziKxq8mrusiLPcY9xO0Huo5trmJUx9zWWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170423224110.7gr3ueehld7ziqqp@rosewood.mcwhirter.io>
 <CAGHRBmSBRp_Zu-Y=QxaZLJcat0oYegKk0h5o-S7DL7j7LuJpzQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHLUNMyGPSzbCKcqwBz7Tk5ZuKVAraFmmn=w1dKrD=sLLk3sxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+6jtDLJNq4oBH0CQsiYz-+63UVwRjCTR-HAcOJpzieFPCE5Hg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGHRBmSgX1-JH1vHkt0ENpeyAJW65_XzSLG1T+OEwRd5FQCyTQ@mail.gmail.com>

Tim,

On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Paul Fenwick <paul.j.fenwick at gmail.com>
wrote:

> This request is specifically for infrastructure, and we?re asking for
> funding that provides a modest capacity for growth in case we need it. Leon
> may correct me if I?m wrong, but our status page
> <http://status.ksp-ckan.org/> shows that we?re able to do a full mod
> indexing every two hours. If we doubled our compute expenses I?m sure we
> could halve that, and while that would be great for players who want to
> install a mod in the same hour it?s released, adding lots of cycles gives
> diminishing returns overall. In other words, we?re not starving for
> resources.
>
Increasing resources could make scheduled runs happen more frequently, but
one of the bigger hosting sites utilises our webhooks to inflate meta data
on-demand and there is some experimental support for GitHub integration but
no frontend to tie it all together.

I'd love to see more integration of the webhooks and do full indexing less
frequently, but below :-)


> There?s a whole other discussion about funding developers and new
> features. but that?s not what we?re asking for with this grant. :)
>
Leon


--
DRM 'manages access' in the same way that jail 'manages freedom.'
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From president at linux.org.au  Thu Apr 27 17:44:18 2017
From: president at linux.org.au (Linux Australia President)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 17:44:18 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Announcing the Beyond 2020 Alliance - driving a new
 conversation about Australia's digital infrastructure post-2020
Message-ID: <26b03163-706c-9a47-8a72-f821f3a8cac9@linux.org.au>

Dear Colleagues,

As flagged in our last email, Linux Australia has been in discussions
with Internet Australia, Telecommunications Association and the IT
Professionals Association to drive a new conversation with the
Australian public regarding the shape of Australia's digital
infrastructure post-2020. Driven by George Fong's excellent leadership,
we have collaborated to form the Beyond 2020 Alliance.

The background, aims, purpose, constituency and nature of the Alliance
are outlined in the attached.

We warmly welcome your feedback, comments and constructive criticism.

Barring significant feedback to the contrary, this alliance will be made
public tomorrow afternoon via media outlets.

With kind regards,

Kathy Reid


-- 
Kathy Reid
President
Linux Australia

0418 130 636

president at linux.org.au
http://linux.org.au

Linux Australia Inc
GPO Box 4788
Sydney NSW 2001
Australia

ABN 56 987 117 479 

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From markwalkom at gmail.com  Thu Apr 27 19:00:49 2017
From: markwalkom at gmail.com (Mark Walkom)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 19:00:49 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] [Announce] Announcing the Beyond 2020 Alliance -
 driving a new conversation about Australia's digital infrastructure
 post-2020
In-Reply-To: <26b03163-706c-9a47-8a72-f821f3a8cac9@linux.org.au>
References: <26b03163-706c-9a47-8a72-f821f3a8cac9@linux.org.au>
Message-ID: <CAEYi1X80MVSF9NzfH4id6yKbOox4iswTWv4V9bHFmOZU6dKgaA@mail.gmail.com>

This is beyond awesome.

Nice work to all involved!

On 27 April 2017 at 17:44, Linux Australia President <president at linux.org.au
> wrote:

> Dear Colleagues,
>
> As flagged in our last email, Linux Australia has been in discussions
> with Internet Australia, Telecommunications Association and the IT
> Professionals Association to drive a new conversation with the
> Australian public regarding the shape of Australia's digital
> infrastructure post-2020. Driven by George Fong's excellent leadership,
> we have collaborated to form the Beyond 2020 Alliance.
>
> The background, aims, purpose, constituency and nature of the Alliance
> are outlined in the attached.
>
> We warmly welcome your feedback, comments and constructive criticism.
>
> Barring significant feedback to the contrary, this alliance will be made
> public tomorrow afternoon via media outlets.
>
> With kind regards,
>
> Kathy Reid
>
>
> --
> Kathy Reid
> President
> Linux Australia
>
> 0418 130 636
>
> president at linux.org.au
> http://linux.org.au
>
> Linux Australia Inc
> GPO Box 4788
> Sydney NSW 2001
> Australia
>
> ABN 56 987 117 479
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> announce mailing list
> announce at lists.linux.org.au
> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/announce
>
>
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From pia.waugh at gmail.com  Fri Apr 28 04:20:13 2017
From: pia.waugh at gmail.com (Pia Waugh)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 06:20:13 +1200
Subject: [Linux-aus] [Announce] Announcing the Beyond 2020 Alliance -
 driving a new conversation about Australia's digital infrastructure
 post-2020
In-Reply-To: <26b03163-706c-9a47-8a72-f821f3a8cac9@linux.org.au>
References: <26b03163-706c-9a47-8a72-f821f3a8cac9@linux.org.au>
Message-ID: <CABSmA+DFZ_q-6c8p_5gnr-ZEEd5uABPfcDfE5HkdTwD=i4Wx_g@mail.gmail.com>

This is a great idea, imho. A great way to provide a voice of expertise and
sanity regarding tech and society to government (political and public
service) and I could see it being quite helpful both to inform and respond
to law  and policy makers Looking forward to seeing how it goes. Happy to
contribute where useful. Nice work!

Cheers,
Pia
On 27 Apr 2017 20:08, "Linux Australia President" <president at linux.org.au>
wrote:

> Dear Colleagues,
>
> As flagged in our last email, Linux Australia has been in discussions
> with Internet Australia, Telecommunications Association and the IT
> Professionals Association to drive a new conversation with the
> Australian public regarding the shape of Australia's digital
> infrastructure post-2020. Driven by George Fong's excellent leadership,
> we have collaborated to form the Beyond 2020 Alliance.
>
> The background, aims, purpose, constituency and nature of the Alliance
> are outlined in the attached.
>
> We warmly welcome your feedback, comments and constructive criticism.
>
> Barring significant feedback to the contrary, this alliance will be made
> public tomorrow afternoon via media outlets.
>
> With kind regards,
>
> Kathy Reid
>
>
> --
> Kathy Reid
> President
> Linux Australia
>
> 0418 130 636
>
> president at linux.org.au
> http://linux.org.au
>
> Linux Australia Inc
> GPO Box 4788
> Sydney NSW 2001
> Australia
>
> ABN 56 987 117 479
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> announce mailing list
> announce at lists.linux.org.au
> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/announce
>
>
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From jwoithe at just42.net  Fri Apr 28 09:48:04 2017
From: jwoithe at just42.net (Jonathan Woithe)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 09:18:04 +0930
Subject: [Linux-aus] Announcing the Beyond 2020 Alliance - driving a new
 conversation about Australia's digital infrastructure post-2020
In-Reply-To: <26b03163-706c-9a47-8a72-f821f3a8cac9@linux.org.au>
References: <26b03163-706c-9a47-8a72-f821f3a8cac9@linux.org.au>
Message-ID: <20170427234804.GA15531@marvin.atrad.com.au>

On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 05:44:18PM +1000, Linux Australia President wrote:
> As flagged in our last email, Linux Australia has been in discussions
> with Internet Australia, Telecommunications Association and the IT
> Professionals Association to drive a new conversation with the
> Australian public regarding the shape of Australia's digital
> infrastructure post-2020. Driven by George Fong's excellent leadership,
> we have collaborated to form the Beyond 2020 Alliance.
> 
> The background, aims, purpose, constituency and nature of the Alliance
> are outlined in the attached.

This seems to be a good idea from where I sit.  We are presently seeing the
less than ideal result when important technical topics are politicised. 
Having a body to promote reasoned discussion free from arbitrary,
non-technical ideologies can only be a good thing.

I commend all involved in this initiative.

Regards
  jonathan

From insydneyjames at gmail.com  Thu Apr 27 23:44:15 2017
From: insydneyjames at gmail.com (James Litten)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 23:44:15 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] [Announce] Announcing the Beyond 2020 Alliance -
 driving a new conversation about Australia's digital infrastructure
 post-2020
In-Reply-To: <26b03163-706c-9a47-8a72-f821f3a8cac9@linux.org.au>
References: <26b03163-706c-9a47-8a72-f821f3a8cac9@linux.org.au>
Message-ID: <CAAq9YQodCWrBpjw3VXmNkae9FJgg=pT0UG=QEMzO9=d_cyV+dw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello All,

I would have thought the Universities and other Research groups would be
closer to the technologies of the future.

What do each of the organisations think about the NBN ?
I have heard and read very little from these organisations.

There are larger and smaller groups of ICT professionals that are not
represented.

What digital outcomes needed will the Beyond 2020 Alliance support?

Regards

James.




On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 5:44 PM, Linux Australia President <
president at linux.org.au> wrote:

> Dear Colleagues,
>
> As flagged in our last email, Linux Australia has been in discussions
> with Internet Australia, Telecommunications Association and the IT
> Professionals Association to drive a new conversation with the
> Australian public regarding the shape of Australia's digital
> infrastructure post-2020. Driven by George Fong's excellent leadership,
> we have collaborated to form the Beyond 2020 Alliance.
>
> The background, aims, purpose, constituency and nature of the Alliance
> are outlined in the attached.
>
> We warmly welcome your feedback, comments and constructive criticism.
>
> Barring significant feedback to the contrary, this alliance will be made
> public tomorrow afternoon via media outlets.
>
> With kind regards,
>
> Kathy Reid
>
>
> --
> Kathy Reid
> President
> Linux Australia
>
> 0418 130 636
>
> president at linux.org.au
> http://linux.org.au
>
> Linux Australia Inc
> GPO Box 4788
> Sydney NSW 2001
> Australia
>
> ABN 56 987 117 479
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> announce mailing list
> announce at lists.linux.org.au
> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/announce
>
>
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From regcoutts at ozemail.com.au  Thu Apr 27 23:55:22 2017
From: regcoutts at ozemail.com.au (Reg Coutts)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 23:25:22 +0930
Subject: [Linux-aus] [Announce] Announcing the Beyond 2020 Alliance -
 driving a new conversation about Australia's digital infrastructure
 post-2020
In-Reply-To: <CAAq9YQodCWrBpjw3VXmNkae9FJgg=pT0UG=QEMzO9=d_cyV+dw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <26b03163-706c-9a47-8a72-f821f3a8cac9@linux.org.au>
 <CAAq9YQodCWrBpjw3VXmNkae9FJgg=pT0UG=QEMzO9=d_cyV+dw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D5282D29.EC307%regcoutts@ozemail.com.au>

James

Being ?closer? to the technologies of the future does not assure objectivity
or understanding of the interplay between ?technologies? and social
acceptance or economics.

Re other ICT groups I agree (e.g. ACS) but don?t get going!

A focus on outcomes is important but for who in society is equally
important.

As they say ?let the debate begin!?.

Regards
Reg Coutts
Director and President
http://telsoc.org <http://telsoc.org/>
Telecommunications Association Inc
ABN 34 732 327 053

regcoutts at ozemail.com.au
0414 477 766


From:  James Litten <insydneyjames at gmail.com>
Date:  Thursday, 27 April 2017 at 11:14 pm
To:  <president at linux.org.au>
Cc:  <announce at lists.linux.org.au>, council <council at linux.org.au>,
<linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au>, Penny Fraser <penny.fraser at telsoc.org>, Tim
Herring <tim.herring at telsoc.org>, "." <regcoutts at ozemail.com.au>, George
Fong <george.fong at internet.org.au>, ITPA President <president at itpa.org.au>
Subject:  Re: [Announce] Announcing the Beyond 2020 Alliance - driving a new
conversation about Australia's digital infrastructure post-2020

Hello All,

I would have thought the Universities and other Research groups would be
closer to the technologies of the future.

What do each of the organisations think about the NBN ?
I have heard and read very little from these organisations.

There are larger and smaller groups of ICT professionals that are not
represented.

What digital outcomes needed will the Beyond 2020 Alliance support?

Regards

James.




On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 5:44 PM, Linux Australia President
<president at linux.org.au> wrote:
> Dear Colleagues,
> 
> As flagged in our last email, Linux Australia has been in discussions
> with Internet Australia, Telecommunications Association and the IT
> Professionals Association to drive a new conversation with the
> Australian public regarding the shape of Australia's digital
> infrastructure post-2020. Driven by George Fong's excellent leadership,
> we have collaborated to form the Beyond 2020 Alliance.
> 
> The background, aims, purpose, constituency and nature of the Alliance
> are outlined in the attached.
> 
> We warmly welcome your feedback, comments and constructive criticism.
> 
> Barring significant feedback to the contrary, this alliance will be made
> public tomorrow afternoon via media outlets.
> 
> With kind regards,
> 
> Kathy Reid
> 
> 
> --
> Kathy Reid
> President
> Linux Australia
> 
> 0418 130 636
> 
> president at linux.org.au
> http://linux.org.au
> 
> Linux Australia Inc
> GPO Box 4788
> Sydney NSW 2001
> Australia
> 
> ABN 56 987 117 479
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> announce mailing list
> announce at lists.linux.org.au
> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/announce
> 



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From tleeuwenburg at gmail.com  Sat Apr 29 19:29:09 2017
From: tleeuwenburg at gmail.com (Tennessee Leeuwenburg)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2017 19:29:09 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] PyCon AU 2017 - CFP Deadline 7th May
Message-ID: <CADhgxgdLo3=GvFBCP_H6TdT_ab5dF4WUe4FpgpVoxr1JMjJECQ@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings,

PyCon AU 2017?s Call for Proposal deadline - Sunday 7th May - is fast
approaching. We need your submissions now!

There are a few key pieces of information to be aware of in preparing your
submission.

Child Care

PyCon AU 2017 is absolutely delighted to be offering child care for the
first time:  https://2017.pycon-au.org/about/child-care/. Child care will
be offered on the specialist track and main conference days (Friday 4
August, Saturday 5 August and Sunday 6 August).

More details will be forthcoming. However, if you are considering
submitting a talk to the Call for Proposals and need to know more about
child care, you can contact us at contact at pycon-au.org.

Call for Proposals - page has been updated

Our Call for Proposals (CFP) page has been updated with many small
clarifications and updates over the last few weeks. To ensure you have all
the latest info, please review: https://2017.pycon-au.org/program/cfp/

Proposal Tips, Advice and Examples

In previous years, we have had numerous requests for more information
containing advice about what makes for a good proposal submission and real
examples from good submissions. This year we have published two such
articles:

https://2017.pycon-au.org/program/proposal-tips/tips-writing-great-proposal/

https://2017.pycon-au.org/program/proposal-tips/proposal-tips-part-two/

If You Would Like Feedback On Your Proposal

We have also provided information should you wish to request feedback on
your talk proposal prior to the CFP close. This information is available on
our CFP page (https://2017.pycon-au.org/program/cfp/). If you scroll down,
information about obtaining feedback is located towards the bottom of the
CFP page.

If you have any questions, queries or comments, we?d love you to get in
touch. Please don?t hesitate to contact us via program at pycon-au.org.

Kind Regards,

Tennessee Leeuwenburg

PyCon AU 2017 Program Chair

________________________________________________________________________________________

Our sponsorship team has asked us to remind you that putting up a
conference like ours costs money. Please consider asking whether your
organisation would be interested in contributing to running PyCon
Australia. The program committee and sponsorship committee are separate and
make separate decisions, but the warm fuzzy feelings are shared all around.
More details are available at https://2017.pycon-au.org/sponsorship.pdf
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