From a.nielsen at shikadi.net Sat Apr 2 14:58:00 2016 From: a.nielsen at shikadi.net (Adam Nielsen) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 13:58:00 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Census data risks - retention and correlation of records In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160402135800.0d3284e3@korath.teln.shikadi.net> > > Your responses are completely anonymous. Unlike say, an upcoming > > nationwide census. But that's a different topic ;-) > > Is this something we should respond to, in our broader role? It's not > really an 'open' issue, it's kind of the opposite of data freedom in a > sense, but it is about data privacy... It's freedom in the sense that I'm free to keep my code and identity private if I choose to, but apparently I'm not free to keep my personal information private if the ABS come knocking. I'm sure people wouldn't be so keen on free software if part of that freedom meant you were free to have the full name and home address of every person who ever contributed to a project. Not that this is all that new, I didn't know the ABS could compel you to share all your personal information either, and now that I know this, I'm much less happy about the whole census in general. > I am quite unhappy about (a) the change in policy and (b) the lack of > consultation in the change. > > For those who are unaware - the ABS now intend to retain your personal > information (previously destroyed) *and* correlate it with other data. Thanks for the links, I didn't realise this change had taken place either. Now I'm not so keen on answering the August census honestly, in protest. Maybe this year instead of everyone putting Jedi Knight as their religion, we could all write "Private" and skip as many questions as possible. There is already some expectation of widespread civil disobedience because of this change, and perhaps this is the only way to get the message across. The fact that the ABS could still literally knock on your door and require you to share this info along with the bank statements and other paperwork to prove its correctness still doesn't sit easy with me though. I would have no problem at all if there was a choice involved, but as soon as it becomes mandatory I have a big problem with it. > An ABS census hack would be the most comprehensive identity theft of all > time... I wonder how we can make that happen...? Part of me would love to see all that data go public to prove that no system is perfect and anyone who thinks so is a fool, but the fallout from it would be disastrous. > It is just too risky to provide key personal information on every single > Australian in a database that could be exploited by staff or hackers, and > there really is no good reason to do so. The ABS should return to their > previous policy of destroying personal identifying data and only retaining > census data itself. The only good that could come of it is making identity theft easier to clean up after. It can be a headache now trying to prove you weren't the one who applied for that credit card, but if every second person has had their identity stolen then that process might at least become easier! Cheers, Adam. From lloy0076 at adam.com.au Sun Apr 3 18:43:30 2016 From: lloy0076 at adam.com.au (David Lloyd) Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 18:13:30 +0930 Subject: [Linux-aus] Census data risks - retention and correlation of records In-Reply-To: <20160402135800.0d3284e3@korath.teln.shikadi.net> References: <20160402135800.0d3284e3@korath.teln.shikadi.net> Message-ID: <000a01d18d84$e751c3f0$b5f54bd0$@adam.com.au> The ABS can and does knock on people's doors and DOES sue people who don't give it information already; nothing particularly new about that. And anyone who thinks they don't already keep the data is probably living in a fairy tale world that involves drugs I don't usually take. They're just trying to avoid getting embarrassed by an Australian version of Edward Snowden. Or that white haired person holed up in an embassy in the UK. > -----Original Message----- > From: linux-aus [mailto:linux-aus-bounces at lists.linux.org.au] On Behalf > Of Adam Nielsen > Sent: Saturday, 2 April 2016 2:28 PM > To: linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > Subject: Re: [Linux-aus] Census data risks - retention and correlation of > records > > > > Your responses are completely anonymous. Unlike say, an upcoming > > > nationwide census. But that's a different topic ;-) > > > > Is this something we should respond to, in our broader role? It's not > > really an 'open' issue, it's kind of the opposite of data freedom in a > > sense, but it is about data privacy... > > It's freedom in the sense that I'm free to keep my code and identity > private if I choose to, but apparently I'm not free to keep my personal > information private if the ABS come knocking. I'm sure people wouldn't > be so keen on free software if part of that freedom meant you were > free to have the full name and home address of every person who ever > contributed to a project. > > Not that this is all that new, I didn't know the ABS could compel you to > share all your personal information either, and now that I know this, I'm > much less happy about the whole census in general. > of-privacy/story-e6frg6z6-1226240259101> > > > I am quite unhappy about (a) the change in policy and (b) the lack of > > consultation in the change. > > > > For those who are unaware - the ABS now intend to retain your > personal > > information (previously destroyed) *and* correlate it with other data. > > Thanks for the links, I didn't realise this change had taken place either. > Now I'm not so keen on answering the August census honestly, in > protest. > > Maybe this year instead of everyone putting Jedi Knight as their religion, > we could all write "Private" and skip as many questions as possible. > There is already some expectation of widespread civil disobedience > because of this change, and perhaps this is the only way to get the > message across. > > The fact that the ABS could still literally knock on your door and require > you to share this info along with the bank statements and other > paperwork to prove its correctness still doesn't sit easy with me though. > I would have no problem at all if there was a choice involved, but as soon > as it becomes mandatory I have a big problem with it. > > > An ABS census hack would be the most comprehensive identity theft > of > > all time... > > I wonder how we can make that happen...? Part of me would love to > see all that data go public to prove that no system is perfect and anyone > who thinks so is a fool, but the fallout from it would be disastrous. > > > It is just too risky to provide key personal information on every > > single Australian in a database that could be exploited by staff or > > hackers, and there really is no good reason to do so. The ABS should > > return to their previous policy of destroying personal identifying > > data and only retaining census data itself. > > The only good that could come of it is making identity theft easier to > clean up after. It can be a headache now trying to prove you weren't the > one who applied for that credit card, but if every second person has had > their identity stolen then that process might at least become easier! > > Cheers, > Adam. > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus From andrew at sericyb.com.au Sun Apr 3 18:57:47 2016 From: andrew at sericyb.com.au (Andrew Pam) Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 18:57:47 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Census data risks - retention and correlation of records In-Reply-To: <000a01d18d84$e751c3f0$b5f54bd0$@adam.com.au> References: <20160402135800.0d3284e3@korath.teln.shikadi.net> <000a01d18d84$e751c3f0$b5f54bd0$@adam.com.au> Message-ID: <5700DB0B.7050601@sericyb.com.au> On 03/04/16 18:43, David Lloyd wrote: > The ABS can and does knock on people's doors and DOES sue people who > don't give it information already; nothing particularly new about that. Apparently although everyone is required to fill in their census form, there's no law requiring people to give their correct name. You can fill it in as "John Doe" or even "Anonymous". Regards, Andrew From andrew at donnellan.id.au Sun Apr 3 21:01:33 2016 From: andrew at donnellan.id.au (Andrew Donnellan) Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 21:01:33 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Census data risks - retention and correlation of records In-Reply-To: <5700DB0B.7050601@sericyb.com.au> References: <20160402135800.0d3284e3@korath.teln.shikadi.net> <000a01d18d84$e751c3f0$b5f54bd0$@adam.com.au> <5700DB0B.7050601@sericyb.com.au> Message-ID: On 3 Apr 2016 19:03, "Andrew Pam" wrote: > > On 03/04/16 18:43, David Lloyd wrote: > > The ABS can and does knock on people's doors and DOES sue people who > > don't give it information already; nothing particularly new about that. > > Apparently although everyone is required to fill in their census form, > there's no law requiring people to give their correct name. You can > fill it in as "John Doe" or even "Anonymous". IANAL, but I think section 15 of the Census and Statistics Act 1905 would beg to differ. Andrew > > Regards, > Andrew > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From a.nielsen at shikadi.net Sun Apr 3 21:09:00 2016 From: a.nielsen at shikadi.net (Adam Nielsen) Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 21:09:00 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Census data risks - retention and correlation of records In-Reply-To: <5700DB0B.7050601@sericyb.com.au> References: <20160402135800.0d3284e3@korath.teln.shikadi.net> <000a01d18d84$e751c3f0$b5f54bd0$@adam.com.au> <5700DB0B.7050601@sericyb.com.au> Message-ID: <20160403210900.5989cbfa@korath.teln.shikadi.net> > Apparently although everyone is required to fill in their census form, > there's no law requiring people to give their correct name. You can > fill it in as "John Doe" or even "Anonymous". They'll have your address though from the unique ID listed on the census form, so now they can just cross reference that with any of the other government data sets (rates, medicare, etc.) to find out your real name. Plus if you are one of the lucky 5% selected for the special interview, you'll have to provide proof that your name really is John Doe... Cheers, Adam. From kathy at kathyreid.id.au Sun Apr 3 21:19:51 2016 From: kathy at kathyreid.id.au (Kathy Reid) Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 21:19:51 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Census data risks - retention and correlation of records In-Reply-To: <20160403210900.5989cbfa@korath.teln.shikadi.net> References: <20160402135800.0d3284e3@korath.teln.shikadi.net> <000a01d18d84$e751c3f0$b5f54bd0$@adam.com.au> <5700DB0B.7050601@sericyb.com.au> <20160403210900.5989cbfa@korath.teln.shikadi.net> Message-ID: <5700FC57.6040000@kathyreid.id.au> Trying to tie together a few different thoughts here and identify what role Linux Australia may play here; - If someone is willing to pick up the task and invest the time, LA could write to the ABS, specifically to the Australian Statistician, to articulate the concerns that the community holds about the retention and data correlation practices being exercised currently. - LA could reach out to like-minded organisations (such as, for example, Electronic Frontiers Australia) and lend in-kind (or material, if needed) support if a clear campaign or key messages were being articulated. - Or, we could simply use this list as a forum for informed debate without taken any concrete action. As always, the Council is guided by the broader community in our actions, and we'd appreciate your thoughts and feedback on this issue. Kind regards, Kathy From j-conversations at decisions-and-designs.com.au Mon Apr 4 05:01:04 2016 From: j-conversations at decisions-and-designs.com.au (SparkPeople Exercise of the Day) Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 22:01:04 +0300 Subject: [Linux-aus] Fw: new important message Message-ID: <00000b98b328$49bcfc06$c4044296$@decisions-and-designs.com.au> Hello! New message, please read SparkPeople Exercise of the Day -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lloy0076 at adam.com.au Mon Apr 4 13:25:18 2016 From: lloy0076 at adam.com.au (David Lloyd) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 12:55:18 +0930 Subject: [Linux-aus] Census data risks - retention and correlation of records In-Reply-To: References: <20160402135800.0d3284e3@korath.teln.shikadi.net> <000a01d18d84$e751c3f0$b5f54bd0$@adam.com.au> <5700DB0B.7050601@sericyb.com.au> Message-ID: <003301d18e21$9d482130$d7d86390$@adam.com.au> You?re not meant to tell outright fibs on it ? although exactly how one would prove that I?m a [insert a somewhat common religion ? and not spaghetti monster isn?t common enough, let?s try one of the christianities or even Islamic] I am or am not is up for grabs. From: linux-aus [mailto:linux-aus-bounces at lists.linux.org.au] On Behalf Of Andrew Donnellan Sent: Sunday, 3 April 2016 8:32 PM To: Andrew Pam Cc: linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au; David Lloyd Subject: Re: [Linux-aus] Census data risks - retention and correlation of records On 3 Apr 2016 19:03, "Andrew Pam" > wrote: > > On 03/04/16 18:43, David Lloyd wrote: > > The ABS can and does knock on people's doors and DOES sue people who > > don't give it information already; nothing particularly new about that. > > Apparently although everyone is required to fill in their census form, > there's no law requiring people to give their correct name. You can > fill it in as "John Doe" or even "Anonymous". IANAL, but I think section 15 of the Census and Statistics Act 1905 would beg to differ. Andrew > > Regards, > Andrew > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lists at fukawi2.nl Mon Apr 4 15:48:24 2016 From: lists at fukawi2.nl (Phillip Smith) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 15:48:24 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Census data risks - retention and correlation of records In-Reply-To: <003301d18e21$9d482130$d7d86390$@adam.com.au> References: <20160402135800.0d3284e3@korath.teln.shikadi.net> <000a01d18d84$e751c3f0$b5f54bd0$@adam.com.au> <5700DB0B.7050601@sericyb.com.au> <003301d18e21$9d482130$d7d86390$@adam.com.au> Message-ID: > > Apparently although everyone is required to fill in their census form, > > there's no law requiring people to give their correct name. You can > > fill it in as "John Doe" or even "Anonymous". > > IANAL, but I think section 15 of the Census and Statistics Act 1905 would beg to differ. I had a brief read through it this morning and while IANAL either, it seems the only way to (legally) get out of it is if your religious beliefs prevent it, AND you have to be able to provide evidence as such. Section 14.3: > (3) Subsection (1) does not apply in relation to a person?s failure to answer a question, or to supply particulars, relating to the person?s religious beliefs. > Note: A defendant bears an evidential burden in relation to the matter in subsection (3) (see subsection 13.3(3) of the Criminal Code). While I am firmly against the census being mandatory, and specifically the changes regarding the retention of identifiable information, I'm not sure if it falls under the responsibility of LA to lead such an objection. Although I would not oppose LA lending support to another organization more targetted towards this end (eg, EFA) From thatpixguy at gmail.com Mon Apr 4 16:37:11 2016 From: thatpixguy at gmail.com (Steven Pickles) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 16:07:11 +0930 Subject: [Linux-aus] Census data risks - retention and correlation of records In-Reply-To: References: <20160402135800.0d3284e3@korath.teln.shikadi.net> <000a01d18d84$e751c3f0$b5f54bd0$@adam.com.au> <5700DB0B.7050601@sericyb.com.au> <003301d18e21$9d482130$d7d86390$@adam.com.au> Message-ID: The EFA has a page about this, including options for not participating. The most feasible one is just not being in a residence on census night. https://www.efa.org.au/privacy/census-2016/ pix On 4 Apr 2016 3:20 pm, "Phillip Smith" wrote: > > > Apparently although everyone is required to fill in their census form, > > > there's no law requiring people to give their correct name. You can > > > fill it in as "John Doe" or even "Anonymous". > > > > IANAL, but I think section 15 of the Census and Statistics Act 1905 > would beg to differ. > > I had a brief read through it this morning and while IANAL either, it > seems the only way to (legally) get out of it is if your religious > beliefs prevent it, AND you have to be able to provide evidence as > such. Section 14.3: > > > (3) Subsection (1) does not apply in relation to a person?s failure to > answer a question, or to supply particulars, relating to the person?s > religious beliefs. > > Note: A defendant bears an evidential burden in relation to the matter > in subsection (3) (see subsection 13.3(3) of the Criminal Code). > > > While I am firmly against the census being mandatory, and specifically > the changes regarding the retention of identifiable information, I'm > not sure if it falls under the responsibility of LA to lead such an > objection. Although I would not oppose LA lending support to another > organization more targetted towards this end (eg, EFA) > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From neill at ingenious.com.au Mon Apr 4 17:20:55 2016 From: neill at ingenious.com.au (Neill Cox) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 17:20:55 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Census data risks - retention and correlation of records In-Reply-To: References: <20160402135800.0d3284e3@korath.teln.shikadi.net> <000a01d18d84$e751c3f0$b5f54bd0$@adam.com.au> <5700DB0B.7050601@sericyb.com.au> <003301d18e21$9d482130$d7d86390$@adam.com.au> Message-ID: IANAS (I am not a statistician) but, The ABS has a web page addressing privacy concerns: http://www.abs.gov.au/websitedbs/censushome.nsf/home/privacy?opendocument&navpos=130 My understanding is that the census has always collected names and addresses and always kept those on the paper records. Given that they're moving to online data collection this change seems inevitable. The change here is that the ABS is now storing the names and addresses online and making that data available to researchers in anonymised forms. The ABS are good at anonymising data and very careful about releasing even tabular data that might be used to identify people. If the population of a category in a table is small enough that individuals can be identified they won't release the data. The question about religion is optional and always has been. If you don't want to answer leave it blank. I had thought that the paper forms were made available to genealogical researchers after 99 years, but this is apparently opt-in. The Census and Statistics Act 1905 requires that raw census data is not shared. Frankly of all the agencies / businesses that might leak my data the ABS is pretty much at the bottom of my list. I can think of many other agencies (e.g. the ATO, the department of Health, motor vehicle registries) that already collect my name, address and date of birth as part of their normal business. I used to work at the ABS in 80s and they took data protection very seriously. They are not a government department but a statutory authority and they also take their independence very seriously. Personally, I don't have a problem with the Census and I'm much more concerned with how much advertising companies (I'm looking at you Google) know about me. Cheers, Neill On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 4:37 PM, Steven Pickles wrote: > The EFA has a page about this, including options for not participating. > The most feasible one is just not being in a residence on census night. > > https://www.efa.org.au/privacy/census-2016/ > > pix > On 4 Apr 2016 3:20 pm, "Phillip Smith" wrote: > >> > > Apparently although everyone is required to fill in their census form, >> > > there's no law requiring people to give their correct name. You can >> > > fill it in as "John Doe" or even "Anonymous". >> > >> > IANAL, but I think section 15 of the Census and Statistics Act 1905 >> would beg to differ. >> >> I had a brief read through it this morning and while IANAL either, it >> seems the only way to (legally) get out of it is if your religious >> beliefs prevent it, AND you have to be able to provide evidence as >> such. Section 14.3: >> >> > (3) Subsection (1) does not apply in relation to a person?s failure to >> answer a question, or to supply particulars, relating to the person?s >> religious beliefs. >> > Note: A defendant bears an evidential burden in relation to the matter >> in subsection (3) (see subsection 13.3(3) of the Criminal Code). >> >> >> While I am firmly against the census being mandatory, and specifically >> the changes regarding the retention of identifiable information, I'm >> not sure if it falls under the responsibility of LA to lead such an >> objection. Although I would not oppose LA lending support to another >> organization more targetted towards this end (eg, EFA) >> _______________________________________________ >> linux-aus mailing list >> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au >> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus >> > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > -- Neill Cox Ingenious Software -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdt at gdt.id.au Tue Apr 5 15:02:16 2016 From: gdt at gdt.id.au (Glen Turner) Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2016 14:32:16 +0930 Subject: [Linux-aus] Census data risks - retention and correlation of records In-Reply-To: References: <20160402135800.0d3284e3@korath.teln.shikadi.net> <000a01d18d84$e751c3f0$b5f54bd0$@adam.com.au> <5700DB0B.7050601@sericyb.com.au> <003301d18e21$9d482130$d7d86390$@adam.com.au> Message-ID: <1459832536.3786.48.camel@gdt.id.au> Neill Cox wrote: > IANAS (I am not a statistician) Hi Neill I was :-) ?I did a degree in CompSci, Math and Economics. I worked for the Australian Bureau of Statistics from 1988 for about a decade. During that time I worked on a population census (and a heap of other things). > My understanding is that the census has always collected names and > addresses and always kept those on the paper records. Correct, but only because you used the word "collected". Names and addresses were not retained beyond the end of census input processing (data entry, editing, follow up of outliers). Names and addresses were on tear-off sheets on the front of the form. Once we were happy there was no follow-up required then that page was torn off and shredded. From that point onwards there was no way to get from the form to an individual (well, induction from the answers given, but you get my point). > Given that they're moving to online data collection this change > seems inevitable. Disagree. Just as a page can be thrown away once it is no longer required, a database column can be dropped once it is no longer required. You can arrange it so that backups containing the deleted data are destroyed. > The change here is that the ABS is now storing the names and > addresses online and making that data available to researchers in > anonymised forms. The ABS are good at anonymising data and very > careful about releasing even tabular data that might be used to > identify people.? If the population of a category in a table is small > enough that individuals can be identified they won't release the > data. You only have the Bureau's word that this is what they will do in the future. If the government alters the Census and Statistics Act then the data is still there for the Bureau or others to do whatever they are then allowed. This isn't a "pie in the sky' issue. Consider that the NSDAP was founded in 1920 and had totalitarian control of Germany by 1938. The population census forms were used to identify people of Jewish heritage for killing. ?You could have very well argued in 1920 that legislation 'prevented' this use of Germany's population census; but 18 years later you would find that the law was no prevention at all. What would have prevented this use would be not archiving names and addresses. > The question about religion is optional and always has been. If you > don't want to answer leave it blank. I'd answer "Jedi" instead. The question is a complete farce, roughly equivalent to asking people's allegiance to a football team with the claim that it can be used to size stadiums. The ABS deserves to have the nature of the question represented in the resulting statistics (not that they do, they've declared "jedi" an outlier, which is an abuse of that statistical term. But the fact they've had to lie not be embarrassed shows what happens when surveys ask the unanswerable). > Frankly of all the agencies / businesses that might leak my data the > ABS is pretty much at the bottom of my list. You write as if large leaks are difficult for individuals to do. The entire census data will fit onto one USB. ABS employees have been motivated by financial gain to leak economic data, there's nothing special about census data which prevents other staff also breaking the law. Computing has made population data worth a fortune (all those current names, addressses, birthdates: no one's credit card would be safe). It's to the staff's credit that leaks are rare. But there's no need to increase the danger to the common person from such a leak. ? > I used to work at the ABS in 80s and they took data protection very > seriously.??They are not a government department but a statutory > authority and they also take their independence very seriously. Have you read what Bill McLennan and other people with ideals from the 1980s have written? ?The current ABS staff can't speak out. They are relying on former staff to uphold those values which we lived when working at the ABS in the 1980s. http://www.afr.com/news/economy/abs-slammed-for-breach-of-trust-over-intrusive-2016-census-data-matching-plan-20160309-gnebci Best wishes, glen From sjh at svana.org Tue Apr 5 15:35:45 2016 From: sjh at svana.org (Steven Hanley) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 15:35:45 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Census data risks - retention and correlation of records In-Reply-To: <1459832536.3786.48.camel@gdt.id.au> References: <20160402135800.0d3284e3@korath.teln.shikadi.net> <000a01d18d84$e751c3f0$b5f54bd0$@adam.com.au> <5700DB0B.7050601@sericyb.com.au> <003301d18e21$9d482130$d7d86390$@adam.com.au> <1459832536.3786.48.camel@gdt.id.au> Message-ID: <20160405053544.GW11851@svana.org> On Tue, Apr 05, 2016 at 02:32:16PM +0930, Glen Turner wrote: > Neill Cox wrote: > > IANAS (I am not a statistician) > > Hi Neill > > I was :-) ?I did a degree in CompSci, Math and Economics. I worked for > the Australian Bureau of Statistics from 1988 for about a decade. > During that time I worked on a population census (and a heap of other > things). > > > My understanding is that the census has always collected names and > > addresses and always kept those on the paper records. > > Correct, but only because you used the word "collected". Names and > addresses were not retained beyond the end of census input processing > (data entry, editing, follow up of outliers). > > Names and addresses were on tear-off sheets on the front of the form. > Once we were happy there was no follow-up required then that page was > torn off and shredded. From that point onwards there was no way to get > from the form to an individual (well, induction from the answers given, > but you get my point). > > > Given that they're moving to online data collection this change > > seems inevitable. > > Disagree. Just as a page can be thrown away once it is no longer > required, a database column can be dropped once it is no longer > required. You can arrange it so that backups containing the deleted > data are destroyed. I agree, until this census the data was anonymoized once they no longer needed the identity attached. This time it is not opt out. >From my understanding if you are not at home or in a dwelling where census data is ccollected on August 9th you do not need to fill it in. This is the first time ever I have been tempted to ensure I am camping in the wilderness [0] somewhere on Tuesday August 9th so as not to be in the census data as there is no option to opt out of them keeping the identifying information. See You Steve [0] not in internet connectiviy range so no online filling in of the census can happen either. -- Steven Hanley sjh at svana.org http://svana.org/sjh/diary what good is a poker face, when you've got an open hand i was supposed to be cool about this, yeah i remember cool was the plan tried to keep it all under wraps, but the wraps kept going slack Worthy - Not A Pretty Girl - Ani From mike.carden at gmail.com Tue Apr 5 16:10:07 2016 From: mike.carden at gmail.com (Mike Carden) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 16:10:07 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Census data risks - retention and correlation of records In-Reply-To: <20160405053544.GW11851@svana.org> References: <20160402135800.0d3284e3@korath.teln.shikadi.net> <000a01d18d84$e751c3f0$b5f54bd0$@adam.com.au> <5700DB0B.7050601@sericyb.com.au> <003301d18e21$9d482130$d7d86390$@adam.com.au> <1459832536.3786.48.camel@gdt.id.au> <20160405053544.GW11851@svana.org> Message-ID: This is the first time ever I have been tempted to ensure I am camping in > the wilderness [0] somewhere on Tuesday August 9th so as not to be in the > census > data as there is no option to opt out of them keeping the identifying > information. May I suggest that you camp somewhere in north Queensland. Local or Mountains camping on August 9 is likely to render your Brass Monkey incomplete. -- MC -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From neill at ingenious.com.au Tue Apr 5 16:31:55 2016 From: neill at ingenious.com.au (Neill Cox) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 16:31:55 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Census data risks - retention and correlation of records In-Reply-To: <1459832536.3786.48.camel@gdt.id.au> References: <20160402135800.0d3284e3@korath.teln.shikadi.net> <000a01d18d84$e751c3f0$b5f54bd0$@adam.com.au> <5700DB0B.7050601@sericyb.com.au> <003301d18e21$9d482130$d7d86390$@adam.com.au> <1459832536.3786.48.camel@gdt.id.au> Message-ID: Glen, Fair points and I'm now somewhat more concerned :-) I guess my mistake was trusting that the ABS I remember working at still exists. It's a shame because the census is actually an important tool for planning government services. Unfortunately the linked article is behind a paywall. Cheers, Neill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michael at hybr.id.au Tue Apr 5 16:50:45 2016 From: michael at hybr.id.au (Michael Van Delft) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 14:50:45 +0800 Subject: [Linux-aus] Census data risks - retention and correlation of records In-Reply-To: References: <20160402135800.0d3284e3@korath.teln.shikadi.net> <000a01d18d84$e751c3f0$b5f54bd0$@adam.com.au> <5700DB0B.7050601@sericyb.com.au> <003301d18e21$9d482130$d7d86390$@adam.com.au> <1459832536.3786.48.camel@gdt.id.au> Message-ID: > Unfortunately the linked article is behind a paywall. For those irritated by the AFR paywall, if you're using Firefox the "Read View" is your friend. (In the address bar on the right next to refresh) From eyal at eyal.emu.id.au Tue Apr 5 17:04:24 2016 From: eyal at eyal.emu.id.au (Eyal Lebedinsky) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 17:04:24 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Census data risks - retention and correlation of records In-Reply-To: References: <20160402135800.0d3284e3@korath.teln.shikadi.net> <000a01d18d84$e751c3f0$b5f54bd0$@adam.com.au> <5700DB0B.7050601@sericyb.com.au> <003301d18e21$9d482130$d7d86390$@adam.com.au> <1459832536.3786.48.camel@gdt.id.au> Message-ID: <57036378.2050700@eyal.emu.id.au> On 05/04/16 16:31, Neill Cox wrote: > Glen, > > Fair points and I'm now somewhat more concerned :-) > > I guess my mistake was trusting that the ABS I remember working at still exists. > > It's a shame because the census is actually an important tool for planning government services. > > Unfortunately the linked article is behind a paywall. I had no problem accessing the article. Maybe AFR decide to open this door... > Cheers, > Neill -- Eyal Lebedinsky (eyal at eyal.emu.id.au) From jwoithe at just42.net Tue Apr 5 17:16:37 2016 From: jwoithe at just42.net (Jonathan Woithe) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 16:46:37 +0930 Subject: [Linux-aus] Census data risks - retention and correlation of records In-Reply-To: <57036378.2050700@eyal.emu.id.au> References: <000a01d18d84$e751c3f0$b5f54bd0$@adam.com.au> <5700DB0B.7050601@sericyb.com.au> <003301d18e21$9d482130$d7d86390$@adam.com.au> <1459832536.3786.48.camel@gdt.id.au> <57036378.2050700@eyal.emu.id.au> Message-ID: <20160405071636.GK5048@marvin.atrad.com.au> On Tue, Apr 05, 2016 at 05:04:24PM +1000, Eyal Lebedinsky wrote: > On 05/04/16 16:31, Neill Cox wrote: > >Unfortunately the linked article is behind a paywall. > > I had no problem accessing the article. Maybe AFR decide to open this > door... I vaguely recall reading somewhere that the Fairfax paywall permitted a small number of Fairfax articles (taken across all their publications) to be viewed within a sliding time window before the paywall kicked in. This may explain why some people can read the article while others can't. Regards jonathan From mike.carden at gmail.com Tue Apr 5 17:39:56 2016 From: mike.carden at gmail.com (Mike Carden) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 17:39:56 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Census data risks - retention and correlation of records In-Reply-To: <20160405071636.GK5048@marvin.atrad.com.au> References: <000a01d18d84$e751c3f0$b5f54bd0$@adam.com.au> <5700DB0B.7050601@sericyb.com.au> <003301d18e21$9d482130$d7d86390$@adam.com.au> <1459832536.3786.48.camel@gdt.id.au> <57036378.2050700@eyal.emu.id.au> <20160405071636.GK5048@marvin.atrad.com.au> Message-ID: LOL. At least ten years ago and very likely more, dead-tree newspapers ceased to employ actual journalists (aka, people who both read and write) then ceased to employ editors to make sure that they published actual sentences. Their paper pulp immediately became compost. I cannot begin to imagine why *anybody* would give a Tinker's Cuss for a printed-on-paper-bum-wiiper these days. -- MC On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 5:16 PM, Jonathan Woithe wrote: > On Tue, Apr 05, 2016 at 05:04:24PM +1000, Eyal Lebedinsky wrote: > > On 05/04/16 16:31, Neill Cox wrote: > > >Unfortunately the linked article is behind a paywall. > > > > I had no problem accessing the article. Maybe AFR decide to open this > > door... > > I vaguely recall reading somewhere that the Fairfax paywall permitted a > small number of Fairfax articles (taken across all their publications) to > be > viewed within a sliding time window before the paywall kicked in. This may > explain why some people can read the article while others can't. > > Regards > jonathan > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thatpixguy at gmail.com Tue Apr 5 17:44:38 2016 From: thatpixguy at gmail.com (Steven Pickles) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 17:14:38 +0930 Subject: [Linux-aus] Census data risks - retention and correlation of records In-Reply-To: <20160405071636.GK5048@marvin.atrad.com.au> References: <000a01d18d84$e751c3f0$b5f54bd0$@adam.com.au> <5700DB0B.7050601@sericyb.com.au> <003301d18e21$9d482130$d7d86390$@adam.com.au> <1459832536.3786.48.camel@gdt.id.au> <57036378.2050700@eyal.emu.id.au> <20160405071636.GK5048@marvin.atrad.com.au> Message-ID: You can get around the paywall by disabling Javascript (not as simple as it used to be) or by looking at the Google cache of the article: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:7DTUGCnjMVUJ:www.afr.com/news/economy/abs-slammed-for-breach-of-trust-over-intrusive-2016-census-data-matching-plan-20160309-gnebci+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au pix On 5 April 2016 at 16:46, Jonathan Woithe wrote: > On Tue, Apr 05, 2016 at 05:04:24PM +1000, Eyal Lebedinsky wrote: > > On 05/04/16 16:31, Neill Cox wrote: > > >Unfortunately the linked article is behind a paywall. > > > > I had no problem accessing the article. Maybe AFR decide to open this > > door... > > I vaguely recall reading somewhere that the Fairfax paywall permitted a > small number of Fairfax articles (taken across all their publications) to > be > viewed within a sliding time window before the paywall kicked in. This may > explain why some people can read the article while others can't. > > Regards > jonathan > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lists at ebourne.me.uk Tue Apr 5 17:58:25 2016 From: lists at ebourne.me.uk (lists at ebourne.me.uk) Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2016 16:58:25 +0900 Subject: [Linux-aus] Census data risks - retention and correlation of records In-Reply-To: References: <000a01d18d84$e751c3f0$b5f54bd0$@adam.com.au> <5700DB0B.7050601@sericyb.com.au> <003301d18e21$9d482130$d7d86390$@adam.com.au> <1459832536.3786.48.camel@gdt.id.au> <57036378.2050700@eyal.emu.id.au> <20160405071636.GK5048@marvin.atrad.com.au> Message-ID: <1459843105.7878.1@panicin.ebourne.me.uk> I refreshed the page and then pressed ESC while the page was reloading. This solved the problem very easily. Luckily the internet in Australia is so comically bad that you have plenty of time to stop the page before the javascript is run. [Thanks to Michael for the tip on the firefox reader mode, that is a nice neat solution.] Cheers, Martin On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 5:14 PM, Steven Pickles wrote: > You can get around the paywall by disabling Javascript (not as simple > as it used to be) or by looking at the Google cache of the article: > > http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:7DTUGCnjMVUJ:www.afr.com/news/economy/abs-slammed-for-breach-of-trust-over-intrusive-2016-census-data-matching-plan-20160309-gnebci+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au > > pix > > On 5 April 2016 at 16:46, Jonathan Woithe wrote: >> On Tue, Apr 05, 2016 at 05:04:24PM +1000, Eyal Lebedinsky wrote: >> > On 05/04/16 16:31, Neill Cox wrote: >> > >Unfortunately the linked article is behind a paywall. >> > >> > I had no problem accessing the article. Maybe AFR decide to open >> this >> > door... >> >> I vaguely recall reading somewhere that the Fairfax paywall >> permitted a >> small number of Fairfax articles (taken across all their >> publications) to be >> viewed within a sliding time window before the paywall kicked in. >> This may >> explain why some people can read the article while others can't. >> >> Regards >> jonathan >> _______________________________________________ >> linux-aus mailing list >> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au >> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kathy at kathyreid.id.au Wed Apr 6 20:44:14 2016 From: kathy at kathyreid.id.au (Kathy Reid) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 20:44:14 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Linux Australia Membership Team - Website Survey March 2016 In-Reply-To: <56FA21DC.8030502@kathyreid.id.au> References: <56FA21DC.8030502@kathyreid.id.au> Message-ID: <5704E87E.1020704@kathyreid.id.au> A big thank you to all who have responded so far. A note to say this is your final chance to provide us with feedback :-) Kind regards, Kathy On 29/03/16 17:34, Kathy Reid wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > In the Membership Team's last update [0], we provided a summary of the > actions taken so far to progress analysis and identification of a > suitable platform to transition MemberDB, and the existing > linux.org.au website to. As part of these activities, we'd like to > gather more information about how people use the linux.org.au website > so we can be user-centric in our approach to designing a new Linux > Australia website, and ensure it meets users' needs. > > We're now requesting that you take 5 minutes out of your busy day > (it's only 5 minutes - promise!) and let us know how you use > linux.org.au, what's working with it and what can be improved; > http://opinahq.com/app/c/67076 > > Your responses are completely anonymous. Unlike say, an upcoming > nationwide census. But that's a different topic ;-) > > As always your questions, comments and feedback are warmly welcomed, > With kind regards, > > Kathy Reid, Sae Ra Germaine, Cameron Tudball, Luke John, Joel Addison, > Michael Cordover, Neill Cox > The Membership Team > > > [0] http://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2016-March/022626.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brianna.laugher at gmail.com Sun Apr 10 14:50:18 2016 From: brianna.laugher at gmail.com (Brianna Laugher) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 14:50:18 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] PyCon Australia 2016 Call for Proposals now open Message-ID: *PyCon Australia 2016 is pleased to announce that its Call for Proposals is now open! See** https://2016.pycon-au.org/cfp* * for all the details, or read on.* Proposals are being accepted for the main conference weekend, and for the preceding specialist tracks: DjangoCon AU; the Python in Education seminar; the Science & Data miniconf; and the Internet-of-Things miniconf. The conference this year will be held from Friday 12th August to Tuesday 16th August. Miniconfs and special events are on Friday followed by the main conference on Saturday and Sunday. The final two days are developer sprints. Important Dates Proposal submission deadline: Sunday, 8th May Proposal acceptance: Sunday, 29th May PyCon Australia attracts professional developers from all walks of life, including industry, government, and science, as well as enthusiast and student developers. We?re looking for proposals for presentations and tutorials on any aspect of Python programming, at all skill levels from novice to advanced. Presentation subjects may range from reports on open source, academic or commercial projects; or even tutorials and case studies. If a presentation is interesting and useful to the Python community, it will be considered for inclusion in the program. We're especially interested in short presentations that will teach conference-goers something new and useful. Can you show attendees how to use a module? Explore a Python language feature? Package an application? For more information, please visit https://2016.pycon-au.org/cfp. Thanks very much to all prospective speakers from the program committee -- we really appreciate it! === About PyCon Australia === PyCon Australia is the national conference for the Python programming community. The seventh PyCon Australia will be held on August 12-16 2016 in Melbourne, bringing together professional, student and enthusiast developers with a love for programming in Python. PyCon Australia informs the country?s developers with presentations by experts and core developers of Python, as well as the libraries and frameworks that they rely on. To find out more about PyCon Australia 2016, visit our website at http://pycon-au.org, follow us at @pyconau or e-mail us at contact at pycon-au.org. PyCon Australia is presented by Linux Australia (www.linux.org.au) and acknowledges the support of our Platinum Sponsors, DevDemand.co and IRESS; and our Gold sponsors, Google Australia and Optiver. For full details of our sponsors, see our website. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh at blemings.org Thu Apr 14 17:11:33 2016 From: hugh at blemings.org (Hugh Blemings) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 17:11:33 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] TPP Submission on behalf of Linux Australia Message-ID: <570F42A5.507@blemings.org> Dear Linux-Aus, I am pleased to advise that last month I submitted a response to the Australian Government in relation to the Senate Committee on the TPP on behalf of Linux Australia. Our submission, along with the others received by the Committee are now visible online [1] I am grateful for the tireless efforts of Josh Stewart on the preparation of this and to Kim Weatherall for her assistance with research and discussion. My thanks also to Council, past and present for their review and of course the broader LA community for your input. Kind Regards, Hugh [1] The Linux Australia submission is #128 as listed here http://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Joint/Treaties/9_February_2016/Submissions The following deep link -should- take you directly to the PDF http://www.aph.gov.au/DocumentStore.ashx?id=38187468-9761-4e05-84f1-281ba68e65a8&subId=410396 -- Hugh Blemings, President, Linux Australia From a.nielsen at shikadi.net Fri Apr 15 21:11:24 2016 From: a.nielsen at shikadi.net (Adam Nielsen) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 21:11:24 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] TPP Submission on behalf of Linux Australia In-Reply-To: <570F42A5.507@blemings.org> References: <570F42A5.507@blemings.org> Message-ID: <20160415211124.295fb383@korath.teln.shikadi.net> Hi Hugh, > I am pleased to advise that last month I submitted a response to the > Australian Government in relation to the Senate Committee on the TPP on > behalf of Linux Australia. Thank you for your effort submitting this on our behalf. I am very grateful that you have taken the time to do this, as I think it is extremely important for us to make our voice heard. I always wish I had more time to do things like this myself, so I really appreciate the work that you and everyone else have put into this response. I know it is not always easy to fit things like this in with all your other commitments. > I am grateful for the tireless efforts of Josh Stewart on the > preparation of this and to Kim Weatherall for her assistance with > research and discussion. Thank you both as well! I thought the submission was very well put together. Cheers, Adam. From kathy at kathyreid.id.au Sat Apr 23 11:51:11 2016 From: kathy at kathyreid.id.au (Kathy Reid) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 11:51:11 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Membership Team update - results of recent survey and key insights Message-ID: <571AD50F.5060200@kathyreid.id.au> Dear colleagues, Further to the Membership Team's previous communication on this issue [1], we are now pleased to provide results of the Membership Team Website Survey. The survey provides actionable insights that will help guide and shape where we take the Linux Australia website and membership platform. Again, we'd like to underscore our appreciation for your time in completing the survey - it is appreciated. --- The Membership Team Website Survey 2016 opened on 27th March and was available until 22nd April. There were 55 responses. The overall data are presented in this Gist; https://gist.github.com/luke-john/41210193b20fd852f998ba52d7fae804 The survey was primarily promoted to Linux Australia members and Linux User Group (LUG) members, and this is reflected in the survey responses. >From the survey, it's very clear the most Linux Australia members who visit the website do so very infrequently. This is likely due to the site not featuring content that members want prominently, such as upcoming events. A key goal of the Membership Platform and website redevelopment project is to provide content that members are looking for, thus increasing the frequency at which Linux Australia members view the site. RECOMMENDATION: That content desired by LA and LUG members (as indicated by this survey) is prioritised on the new site. The survey indicated that respondents overwhelmingly view the site from their desktop device. This is likely to be caused by both 'push' and 'pull' factors. The current Linux Australia site is not responsively designed, meaning that it doesn't render well on mobile devices. This is no fault of the original designers; responsive design as a practice has only emerged over the last 3-4 years, long after the current Linux Australia site was developed. Moreover, the context in which users view the Linux Australia site may mean that it's more likely to be viewed from a desktop device. The survey also indicated that a large cohort of users wanted to view the site on their mobile device, however did not want to use a separate application to interact with Linux Australia content. RECOMMENDATION: That the new Membership Platform and website use responsive design [2], which works well on desktop resolutions but which is also easily viewable on mobile devices. RECOMMENDATION: That having a separate Linux Australia mobile app is ruled as out of scope. The task assessment in the survey indicated that the most key needs for information were around upcoming opensource events, information and news from around the Linux Australia community, information on Linux User Groups, and updates from Linux Australia Council, projects and jobs information. RECOMMENDATION: These content types should be prioritised in the design of the new website, and displayed prominently. Qualitative feedback on the survey indicated a number of positive aspects of the current site which should be replicated in the new websites, including the fast load time, the 'clean' layout of the site, the common login with the current membership system, and having upcoming events on the front page. RECOMMENDATION: That these features and benefits are replicated in the new site build. Qualitative feedback also indicated a number of areas which could be improved, including the type and currency of available content, poor navigation and content findability, lack of responsive design, lack of social media integration and the jarring experience in moving between MemberDB and the LA website. RECOMMENDATION: That these shortcomings are addressed in the new site build. What are our next steps? The Membership Team's next steps are likely to be; - moving to identify and evaluate candidate platforms for the new Membership site and LA website - in parallel, starting to build wireframes of the new design which can then be iterated based on user feedback - in parallel, starting to build out a new information architecture and concomitant content, ready for insertion into a new platform. As always, we welcome your feedback, comments and questions, and warmly welcome contributions from any one who may be willing and capable to assist with the above. // /[/ Kathy Reid, Sae Ra Germaine, Cameron Tudball, Luke John, Joel Addison, Michael Cordover, Neill Cox The Membership Team [1] http://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2016-March/022627.html [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsive_web_design -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul at gear.dyndns.org Sun Apr 24 14:01:36 2016 From: paul at gear.dyndns.org (Paul Gear) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 14:01:36 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Membership Team update - results of recent survey and key insights In-Reply-To: <571AD50F.5060200@kathyreid.id.au> References: <571AD50F.5060200@kathyreid.id.au> Message-ID: <571C4520.1080000@gear.dyndns.org> On 23/04/16 11:51, Kathy Reid wrote: > ... > The Membership Team Website Survey 2016 opened on 27th March and was > available until 22nd April. There were 55 responses. > ... > From the survey, it's very clear the most Linux Australia members who > visit the website do so very infrequently. This is likely due to the > site not featuring content that members want prominently, such as > upcoming events. A key goal of the Membership Platform and website > redevelopment project is to provide content that members are looking > for, thus increasing the frequency at which Linux Australia members > view the site. Hi Kathy & team, Firstly, thanks for your efforts on the survey. Secondly, this may have been covered elsewhere, so please point me at that elsewhere if it has. There is a significant preconception at work here which doesn't seem to have been discussed on the list (at least not that I can recall). The preconception is: increasing the number of hits on the Linux Australia web site is an important goal. (Or perhaps more accurately: increasing the frequency at which members use the site.) The purpose of my email is to question whether that is an important goal, and, if the answer is affirmative, understand and quantify/qualify why. My main reason for questioning this is: I don't like seeing good people invest substantial effort on a commendable project and then feel frustrated when they didn't make the impact they had hoped. We're a volunteer organisation, and I value the time that all our volunteers contribute. Here are a few questions to flesh out what I'm getting at: * What end does increasing the frequency of member views on the site serve? * Would the content provided by a new LA web site fill a gap that is not already well-served by other sites? * If so, what sort of content would that be? * Would this be sufficiently appealing/useful to members to increase the frequency of their visits? * Are there other ways to engage LA members which might be more effective/efficient in terms of money, time, and effort? * What does member engagement of a successful software freedom lobbying/support organisation look like? Speaking for myself, there are a few reasons why I don't visit the site regularly: 1. LCA and elections only happen once a year, and I know the general time of year when that will happen, so I don't really need the site much between February & September (...ish). 2. There's no obvious RSS feed - at least, there's no reference to "feed", "atom", or "rss" on the front page. 3. I already have too much information coming into my life, through email, IRC, RSS, Twitter, etc., and if it were just general Linux news and aggregation of people's blogs, I probably wouldn't find a reason to add the site to my list of monitored feeds. I'm a busy person, employed by a Linux company with a broad reach, and reasonably well-informed about the industry. From my perspective, it takes a fairly special web site to get me to come back regularly. Thinking about various other organisations which I support (financially or otherwise), endorse, or appreciate, I don't visit their web sites very much at all, and I don't necessarily see this as a big problem. Fixing #2 is probably the only one which would increase the frequency at which I visit the site, and it may not do so for very long. If creating a new web site is something our volunteers want to do anyway, then go for it! But I think there may be other possibilities we should be exploring (at least in parallel) given the investment which this effort will require. Paul -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kathy at kathyreid.id.au Sun Apr 24 17:12:43 2016 From: kathy at kathyreid.id.au (Kathy Reid) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 17:12:43 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Membership Team update - results of recent survey and key insights In-Reply-To: <571C4520.1080000@gear.dyndns.org> References: <571AD50F.5060200@kathyreid.id.au> <571C4520.1080000@gear.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <571C71EB.8020001@kathyreid.id.au> Thanks Paul, really appreciate you taking the time to provide feedback. > > There is a significant preconception at work here which doesn't seem > to have been discussed on the list (at least not that I can recall). > The preconception is: increasing the number of hits on the Linux > Australia web site is an important goal. (Or perhaps more accurately: > increasing the frequency at which members use the site.) The purpose > of my email is to question whether that is an important goal, and, if > the answer is affirmative, understand and quantify/qualify why. Sure, it's a fair question. Increasing the frequency of visits, or the 'stickiness' of visits to linux.org.au is not a goal in an of itself. However, it's part of a broader goal to increase engagement with the organisation - across all our digital channels, events and touchpoints. That engagement encompasses elements as broad as; - greater engagement through our Twitter channel - @linuxaustralia - to grow recognition and understanding of LA's events and activities - greater engagement through our mailing lists - such as this one - to ensure that the views and voices of our members are heard - greater engagement through the linux.org.au website - again to grow recognition of what we do, and encourage others to be involved, but also promote things like Grants, and provide information on open source. - greater engagement on platforms such as IRC > My main reason for questioning this is: I don't like seeing good > people invest substantial effort on a commendable project and then > feel frustrated when they didn't make the impact they had hoped. > We're a volunteer organisation, and I value the time that all our > volunteers contribute. > Agreed. We have limited resources - let's apply them effectively. > Here are a few questions to flesh out what I'm getting at: > > * What end does increasing the frequency of member views on the site > serve? > * Would the content provided by a new LA web site fill a gap that is > not already well-served by other sites? > * If so, what sort of content would that be? > * Would this be sufficiently appealing/useful to members to increase > the frequency of their visits? > * Are there other ways to engage LA members which might be more > effective/efficient in terms of money, time, and effort? > * What does member engagement of a successful software freedom > lobbying/support organisation look like? > So, I think I've answered some of this broadly above, but I would like to tackle the content questions. Part of the recent survey was intended to highlight what specific content our members wanted to see on the new linux.org.au site. In short, yes, there is content that the LA site needs to provide (or aggregate) that is not provided on other sites, for instance information on up and coming open source events, information on the activities of LA and information on LUGs. I can't answer whether this content would be appealing to members - but the survey was intended to help provide guidance on what content would be valued. The question around whether there are other ways to engage LA members that might be more effective is a good one. At the end of the day though, our web presence is really a central hub for directing interested parties to the right touchpoint - whether that be social media, to a LUG, to the mailing lists and so on - so it should be effective. In measuring member engagement, I see two primary metrics - quantity and quality. Quantity deals with the number of members engaged - followers, visits to the web page, subscribers to mailing lists and so on. Quality is very different and speaks to the depth, or action taken with engagement, such as the number of people debating a thread, or the number of people signing up for an event. Read more of this here - http://www.demandmetric.com/content/customer-engagement-maturity-model > Speaking for myself, there are a few reasons why I don't visit the > site regularly: > > 1. LCA and elections only happen once a year, and I know the general > time of year when that will happen, so I don't really need the > site much between February & September (...ish). > 2. There's no obvious RSS feed - at least, there's no reference to > "feed", "atom", or "rss" on the front page. > 3. I already have too much information coming into my life, through > email, IRC, RSS, Twitter, etc., and if it were just general Linux > news and aggregation of people's blogs, I probably wouldn't find a > reason to add the site to my list of monitored feeds. I'm a busy > person, employed by a Linux company with a broad reach, and > reasonably well-informed about the industry. From my perspective, > it takes a fairly special web site to get me to come back > regularly. Thinking about various other organisations which I > support (financially or otherwise), endorse, or appreciate, I > don't visit their web sites very much at all, and I don't > necessarily see this as a big problem. > > Fixing #2 is probably the only one which would increase the frequency > at which I visit the site, and it may not do so for very long. > > If creating a new web site is something our volunteers want to do > anyway, then go for it! But I think there may be other possibilities > we should be exploring (at least in parallel) given the investment > which this effort will require. > With respect, you're probably not the sort of person we're trying to reach with the website. You're already actively engaged, knowledgeable about Linux - and a Linux Australia member who knows about LCAs, knows about Council elections and when they're held. The website helps to address the pipeline issue we have by making more people aware of Linux Australia, our events, our projects, and the benefits of free membership. In user experience design, we'd refer to this as 'personas' - understanding different segments of your user base in order to provide the right information to them at the right time. Our website probably needs to be tailored to the 'prospective member' persona - the sort of person who's interested in LA but isn't sure where to start. Again, really appreciate your feedback - I think it will help to focus our efforts. Kind regards, Kathy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ac at main.me Sun Apr 24 17:09:50 2016 From: ac at main.me (ac) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 09:09:50 +0200 Subject: [Linux-aus] Spam :: Linux Device Message-ID: <20160424081223.CDF6564E5@mailhost.linux.org.au> Hello, I notice that this list and the LUV lists still have the odd spam getting through bayes, rbl's, etc. I have developed a new type of anti spam tech based on old tech (dev by Paul Vixie) I am calling it a "neuron network rbl" - no, it is not yet on google and yes, it is new - You and a handful of other people know more about it than anyone else on the planet. Two things: Firstly I am looking to find someone in AU to work with? Can anyone help/suggest/advise? - The devices can be leased/rented at an affordable rate by anyone with mail server and other models of the devices offer also screening mail servers (sits in front of your production mail server --> like an email firewall (see ascii at end of post) Secondly I would like to contribute to help stop the obvious last mile spam on the Linux lists... again two options... If the committee could discuss and let me know? :: So, I have a production device that I can offer the lists to use, which will help to control last mile spam, the actual costs are just the costs of a vps and I have no problem carrying that myself for a few months as a cheap but reliable vps costs $4.5 per month or if the admin(s) sends me the lists ipv4 facing MX you can simply use the spamid.net - rbl(s) - (implimentation is similar to the spamcop.net rbl) and then I can volunteer to maintain a devolved neuron for the lists? Some more background: - The more neurons in your network, the greater the effect (similar to the effect of resolver amplification and bot tech, but with the obvious non focus on the network this specific tech is non amplified - actually with no resolver amplification technology, just in case someone out there worries about that, the basic/small versions uses an almost vanilla bind9, iptables, etc) The complete separation of the vps offers an additional layer of security as it is simply added as an rbl in exim/postfix/ms-exchange/etc and managed through a web interface - easy peasy - all my tech is completely devolved (I learned this from 25+ years of spam research and spammers/cyber criminals - so, to attack the tech you have to attack everyone and everything - but the anti spam net itself works similar to a huge strongly encrypted botnet, but unlike zeus et al, control is neural devolutus (rolling and ongoing, not devolved as it still reads forward even though it is done) Of course as I continue dev on the neuron network it is also becoming more sophisticated and in a year or so it will also be able to offer predictive strikes and some really seriously cool other features :) andre -- Internet --> Your email server < -- > your neuron / neural network Or Internet --> Your neural neuron --> Your email server -- Yes, neurons are re-useable - they can be used for many things - squid, bgp, etc etc and yes, resolver tech works on other network layers... and yes, resolver amplification tech has national security / military implications - for countries... more specifically when combined with other tech. From russell at coker.com.au Sun Apr 24 19:52:12 2016 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 19:52:12 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Spam :: Linux Device In-Reply-To: <20160424081223.CDF6564E5@mailhost.linux.org.au> References: <20160424081223.CDF6564E5@mailhost.linux.org.au> Message-ID: <201604241952.12486.russell@coker.com.au> On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 05:09:50 PM ac wrote: > I notice that this list and the LUV lists still have the odd spam > getting through bayes, rbl's, etc. The spam that went to this list only got through because there are no SPF checks on the list server. The domain jamespurser.com.au has a SPF record with a -all entry so spam forging James' address would be stopped if we had SPF checks. The spam that went to the luv-announce list went through because either Lev has his address approved for mail to go through without moderation or because a moderator mistakenly approved a spam message. I'm trying to chase that up with the committee now. In either case that problem will be fixed. I think that new experiments in anti-spam measures are a good thing and I encourage your work in this regard. But with regard to the current list spam problems I think it's best to solve it at the server end. I will personally solve the LUV problem. The problem with this list could be solved with a SPF check, we just need the LA council to discuss whether they should do SPF checks. I encourage anyone who wants that to ask the council to discuss the matter at the next meeting. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From ac at main.me Mon Apr 25 01:54:31 2016 From: ac at main.me (ac) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 17:54:31 +0200 Subject: [Linux-aus] Spam :: Linux Device In-Reply-To: <201604241952.12486.russell@coker.com.au> References: <20160424081223.CDF6564E5@mailhost.linux.org.au> <201604241952.12486.russell@coker.com.au> Message-ID: <20160424155359.04D2D65A1@mailhost.linux.org.au> On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 19:52:12 +1000 Russell Coker wrote: > I think that new experiments in anti-spam measures are a good thing > and I encourage your work in this regard. But with regard to the > current list spam problems I think it's best to solve it at the > server end. I will personally solve the LUV problem. The problem my offer is at the server end - practically it is just two things: adding dnsrbl.russell.linux.org.au to dns zone file and to add the new dnsbl.russell.linux.org.au to main.cf - smtpd_client_restrictions (on postfix at russell.linux.org.au at 192.55.98.188) the moderators will have less spam to filter/approve manually - makes life easier in the long term and also gives russell.linux.org.au complete control - and that is for all the lists - all at the same time :) > with this list could be solved with a SPF check, we just need the LA > council to discuss whether they should do SPF checks. I encourage Enforcing SPF in a world where not everyone has yet adopted SPF is dramatic and the ultimate argument against strict SPF: most domains anyway still have ~all - which simply means that as a measure SPF is just another tool and not the tool. Even gmail.com :: dig TXT @ _spf.google.com. 299 IN TXT "v=spf1 include:_netblocks.google.com include:_netblocks2.google.com include:_netblocks3.google.com ~all" Maybe a combination of spf and dkim - or seriously look at my post again, it is very cool and empowering to control your own last mile... Anyway, do you know of any partners that I can work with in AU or anyone that may be interested in new tech - new products, etc ? thanks Russel :) andre From noel.butler at ausics.net Mon Apr 25 10:33:42 2016 From: noel.butler at ausics.net (Noel Butler) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 10:33:42 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Spam :: Linux Device In-Reply-To: <201604241952.12486.russell@coker.com.au> References: <20160424081223.CDF6564E5@mailhost.linux.org.au> <201604241952.12486.russell@coker.com.au> Message-ID: <04341078cc5d4db6ce80e12b74502459@ausics.net> On 24/04/2016 19:52, Russell Coker wrote: > On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 05:09:50 PM ac wrote: >> I notice that this list and the LUV lists still have the odd spam >> getting through bayes, rbl's, etc. > > The spam that went to this list only got through because there are no > SPF > checks on the list server. The domain jamespurser.com.au has a SPF > record > with a -all entry so spam forging James' address would be stopped if we > had > SPF checks. > > The spam that went to the luv-announce list went through because either > Lev > has his address approved for mail to go through without moderation or > because > a moderator mistakenly approved a spam message. I'm trying to chase > that up > with the committee now. In either case that problem will be fixed. > > I think that new experiments in anti-spam measures are a good thing and > I > encourage your work in this regard. But with regard to the current > list spam > problems I think it's best to solve it at the server end. I will > personally > solve the LUV problem. The problem with this list could be solved with > a SPF > check, we just need the LA council to discuss whether they should do > SPF > checks. I encourage anyone who wants that to ask the council to > discuss the > matter at the next meeting. SPF Checks should be enforced, I'm amazed they are not. Secondly, ac's email itself reeks of spam. Every "appliance" vendor thinks their device (based on dnsbl and SA probably like the other ripp offs) will save the world, yet here we are in 2016 with the same shitstorm of spam to deal with daily - thankfully, any half decent configured mail servers with a few DNSBL's and spamassassin will stop 99% of spam - always worked for me, privately, and commercially. -- If you have the urge to reply to all rather than reply to list, you best first read http://members.ausics.net/qwerty/ From kathy at kathyreid.id.au Mon Apr 25 12:28:02 2016 From: kathy at kathyreid.id.au (Kathy Reid) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 12:28:02 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Event Checklist for Linux Australia events Message-ID: <571D80B2.8030501@kathyreid.id.au> Hi everyone, You're receiving this email as you're either on the Linux Australia general mailing list, or you're currently on an event subcommittee for a Linux Australia event. The Council often receives inquiries along the lines of 'what do I have to do to run a Linux Australia event?'. Well, we're super excited that you asked, because now we have a markdown list of what to expect. Yay lists! It's almost like an agenda :-) https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/blob/master/event-checklist.md The Event Checklist doesn't replace our Subcommittee Policy [1], but does provide a handy list of things to consider to plan your event, your subcommittee and the administrative structure of running your event under the Linux Australia umbrella. Think of the policy as the 'what' and the Event Checklist as the 'how'. Furthermore, it assists Council (whose membership changes from year to year) in ensuring an understanding of any action items that need to be undertaken by the Linux Australia Council. As always, your feedback, suggestions and comments are warmly welcomed. A huge thanks to Tony Breeds, Joshua Hesketh and the current Council for their input and feedback on this Checklist - hugely appreciated. With kind regards, Kathy Reid [1] https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/blob/master/subcommittee_policy_v2.md From ac at main.me Mon Apr 25 15:01:22 2016 From: ac at main.me (ac) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 07:01:22 +0200 Subject: [Linux-aus] Spam :: Linux Device In-Reply-To: <04341078cc5d4db6ce80e12b74502459@ausics.net> References: <20160424081223.CDF6564E5@mailhost.linux.org.au> <201604241952.12486.russell@coker.com.au> <04341078cc5d4db6ce80e12b74502459@ausics.net> Message-ID: <20160425050046.E7AE665BA@mailhost.linux.org.au> On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 10:33:42 +1000 Noel Butler wrote: > On 24/04/2016 19:52, Russell Coker wrote: > > On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 05:09:50 PM ac wrote: > >> I notice that this list and the LUV lists still have the odd spam > >> getting through bayes, rbl's, etc. > > The spam that went to this list only got through because there are > > no SPF > > checks on the list server. The domain jamespurser.com.au has a SPF > > record > > SPF Checks should be enforced, I'm amazed they are not. > maybe you will maybe become less amazed when you spend a minute and learn more about how it works? Strict SPF enforcement is only as good as SPF records themselves I would venture a guess that the rest of the spam to the AU lists are stopped by the good work of moderators. Which workload I offered to reduce. > > Secondly, ac's email itself reeks of spam. > Every "appliance" vendor thinks their device (based on dnsbl and SA > probably like the other ripp offs) will save the world, yet here we glad you use the word "probably" - the truth is that there is not a single line of SA OSS code in my solution (or that of any dnsbl - it is all original 100% and from scratch - it is also new tech - so to call it an dnsbl - is simply so that you will understand roughly what it is) , so probably was a good word choice :) > are in 2016 with the same shitstorm of spam to deal with daily - > thankfully, any half decent configured mail servers with a few > DNSBL's and spamassassin will stop 99% of spam - always worked for > me, privately, and commercially. > which is why i am doing what i am doing. You do not know this? (it seems?) but sorbs and some other rbl's are literally at war with each other. over 50 of gmail.com servers are in some rbl's and this has caused many hassles the past two weeks. It does not help that yahoo is being target attacked by criminals and that microsoft and google is starting to control the email space (as in monopoly) - there are many other problems and the very rbl's that you now so strongly rely on, you may wake up one morning and find out that they all do not work and if you think now that there is a "shitstorm" switch off your rbls for exactly 5 minutes - and see the result... would it not be better for you to have your own data and be in total control yourself? I do not know you Noel, but I am somewhat the same as you, I can also be a rude troll at times and i also have strong opinions about things. I over react and I am emotional and passionate about things but I guess you are also right there are so many people that repackage linux like for example iptables firewalls or squid proxy devices, but Noel, good for them! they are promoting selling Linux, instead of being negative around their "devices" and calling them ripoff's - consider that Apple uses BSD code - so does Microsoft - try to be more tolerant Noel, I have written a lot of open source GPL licensed code (I think at last count over 100 000 lines in total - without white space) - which so many people are using and I am sure to have such strong opinions you must have also written over 100 000 lines of open source code and given it to the world. Unlike you, did you write a lot of the code for SA? - I do not use SA, so I do apologise if you feel so strongly about the re-distribution of your GPL licensed code. do not think that people are ripping off my code when they use it. I gave it to the world - some of my code I have also licensed BSD, because I feel that people should be able to take my code and even build closed products ontop or with it. Freedom Noel, freedom for people to do as they wish. - Is why I write so much open source code, libraries, filters, converters, etc. But I also need to earn a living, so I do also need to make money, I do apologize if you think I am a spammer for asking on a Linux list for anyone who may have ideas for me to work with me on Linux products in Australia. And If you think I am a spammer for offering that the list server use one of my new devices, at no cost, my intention was not to spam or to do much other than solve a problem and to find a partner. If it is the general list consensus that I am spamming this list? Please tell me so that I may adjust my behavior for Australia From a.nielsen at shikadi.net Mon Apr 25 19:05:09 2016 From: a.nielsen at shikadi.net (Adam Nielsen) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 19:05:09 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Spam :: Linux Device In-Reply-To: <20160425050046.E7AE665BA@mailhost.linux.org.au> References: <20160424081223.CDF6564E5@mailhost.linux.org.au> <201604241952.12486.russell@coker.com.au> <04341078cc5d4db6ce80e12b74502459@ausics.net> <20160425050046.E7AE665BA@mailhost.linux.org.au> Message-ID: <20160425190509.36ad81bb@korath.teln.shikadi.net> > And If you think I am a spammer for offering that the list > server use one of my new devices, at no cost, my intention was not to > spam or to do much other than solve a problem and to find a partner. Try to see it from our point of view. We get an e-mail from a mysterious person who has a magical device that will solve all our problems, but there is little information about how it works, and all we have to do is plug it into some critical e-mail infrastructure and all our problems will go away! Plus Paul Vixie has something to do with it! Surely we all trust him. If that's not suspicious enough, the offer comes from a person with no surname and no website, the explanation about the problems that will be solved involves a lot of hand waving and not much detail, and the person claims to have written over 100,000 lines of GPL code yet doesn't even post a few links to any code repositories so we can see it? It's not so much that you are spamming us, it's that your proposal sounds very suspicious. Hopefully this is not your intention, but realistically you won't get taken seriously - here or anywhere else - unless you can back up some of your claims with proof, and clearly explain how your solution differs from all the others. Don't forget you are also posting to a list of people who live and breathe open source software, so if they can't see the software that's running on your device then they will have already lost interest. This list is also not moderated, so the tiny amount of spam we do get just goes to show how well the existing solutions work when they are set up properly :-) Cheers, Adam. From ac at main.me Mon Apr 25 20:17:34 2016 From: ac at main.me (ac) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 12:17:34 +0200 Subject: [Linux-aus] Spam :: Linux Device In-Reply-To: <20160425190509.36ad81bb@korath.teln.shikadi.net> References: <20160424081223.CDF6564E5@mailhost.linux.org.au> <201604241952.12486.russell@coker.com.au> <04341078cc5d4db6ce80e12b74502459@ausics.net> <20160425050046.E7AE665BA@mailhost.linux.org.au> <20160425190509.36ad81bb@korath.teln.shikadi.net> Message-ID: <20160425101702.D3DED657C@mailhost.linux.org.au> On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 19:05:09 +1000 Adam Nielsen wrote: > > And If you think I am a spammer for offering that the list > > server use one of my new devices, at no cost, my intention was not > > to spam or to do much other than solve a problem and to find a > > partner. > Try to see it from our point of view. We get an e-mail from a > mysterious person who has a magical device that will solve all our > problems, but there is little information about how it works, and all > we have to do is plug it into some critical e-mail infrastructure and > all our problems will go away! Plus Paul Vixie has something to do > with it! Surely we all trust him. > whahahaha, okay, I understand! I did post some details, but obviously I suck at communications :) Okay, here is the basics of what I made and how it works, please shout if there is still much mud - maybe off list? As to the issue of credibility, I need an aussie partner, that can work with me, people need to try, see and experience - simply telling someone that you can exchange a cow for five beans that will eventually get you a golden goose, is kinda hectic - without actually seeing Plus we are probably all spam punch drunk, I received my fist spam from Compuserv in 1988 - telling me that I should convert my bbs users to dialup :) and since then (up to now) things have not become a whole lot better, like Noel said, there are a myriad of "services" promising lotsa things... - and in 2016 - spam is still a problem Noel is an ultimate example - for me to win him over he will actually have to be using the bloody thing while watching his logs - he may even want to compile his own bind9 and then still also install non required things like spamassasin hehehehe :) At the end of it though, my tech is a game changer and even if people do not use what I have - Spam is dead. And in a few years we will all be on this system I now have as people will simply copy what I have done and this is how it will work... I am a few years ahead though and by the time they start competing I will have ai and some other toys :) more info so that maybe it makes more somewhat more sense: the systems are linked together, in clusters, so, for example your neuron/system would give you full control over your own mail server / mail servers - as your mail server would query your own system so, you can remove / add your own blocks and ultimately control what you receive or do not receive - your system is linked to a cluster (like a cell) of other systems and the main cluster or main cell is linked to a group of other cluster controllers or cell controllers So, you feed into your own system (by simply either forwarding a spam email (or users you allow forwarding a spam email to your cluster) and you can also manage your blocks from a mobile/smartphone/web and you receive unblock requests from your own system - you can override the cluster blocks as wel las the system blocks (which is basically the equiv of a standard dnsbl) All of the above works automagically or manually - up to the user / mail server admin and obviously ALL the data is available on the system (as in the entire blocklists system, cluster and your own - this give you full and ultimate control over what your last mile looks like - all of our spam is not the same - Lets say I can convince the Australian Government to setup a cluster for Australia You do not have to join that cluster but if you do, you can add your device into the cluster and whatever is blocked for the entire country of Australia automagically becomes blocked for you - unless you of course do not agree with specific blocks and then you simply remove them from your device - their could even be multi cluster groups for example - dynamic clusters, cybercrime clusters, phish, etc etc Similarly, Sorbs or Cisco / Google could offer same devices (maybe they will simply do it in their own cloud / apps/ etc) this will allow you to still use whatever rbl - but also plug in your own control - not so sure if the multinationals will give you all the data though... as this is what seems to be "value" in the new economy. I believe in openness though ,so all data is shared everywhere and it is users choices if they want to use data or which / how much / what data they want to use and what not... so, with the data being the gold I have to work the other way around for my money/income model to work - maybe I should also work in reverse and rather give out the systems and keep control over the data? - but philosophically - i think that having your own data just by yourself is better privacy - better control and more independence - for example you have your data - there is no vendor lock in - vendor lock in is a biggie - lets say you are paying google right now to 'filter your spam' if you stop paying google you have no data and you have then to pay someone else... - currently even open source advocates are using rbl's but they have no data and they simply "trust" and they have no data and no system... so, people need to think about what I am saying and why it is important to work the other way around (and still eat) - as they have a lot more freedom and are mobile (no lock in) - or not - maybe an Aussie partner will feel that we have to work the other way around *sigh* i know spam, real well, email real well, technology real well - that is science - is easy - the hard stuff is the philosophy / business stuff - what is the best for the world? and with regards to my identity, I think anyone that cares enough (has fu) can use whois, google etc and websites, etc for au needs to be made - and if I am to work with an Aussie, the name/brands etc may/could change - and this whole thing is not so much about me as it is basically finding someone to pitch the au plan to and then to offer to help the list - but you are of course right - i am wrong... you guys do not know me and I have never been to any of your meetings and am only part of this community as a year or so ago I decided to exit my birth country and investigate moving to au and I guess if I were you I would not trust me either, so thank you for pointing all that out to me, I actually do understand and appreciate it Adam :) best way forward for me is to try to find an Aussie to work with and as my future is uncertain - I am not even that sure about anything at the moment (except that my tech really works well :) ) andre > If that's not suspicious enough, the offer comes from a person with no > surname and no website, the explanation about the problems that will > be solved involves a lot of hand waving and not much detail, and the > person claims to have written over 100,000 lines of GPL code yet > doesn't even post a few links to any code repositories so we can see > it? > > It's not so much that you are spamming us, it's that your proposal > sounds very suspicious. Hopefully this is not your intention, but > realistically you won't get taken seriously - here or anywhere else - > unless you can back up some of your claims with proof, and clearly > explain how your solution differs from all the others. > > Don't forget you are also posting to a list of people who live and > breathe open source software, so if they can't see the software that's > running on your device then they will have already lost interest. > > This list is also not moderated, so the tiny amount of spam we do get > just goes to show how well the existing solutions work when they are > set up properly :-) > > Cheers, > Adam. > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus From lloy0076 at adam.com.au Mon Apr 25 20:41:25 2016 From: lloy0076 at adam.com.au (David Lloyd) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 20:11:25 +0930 Subject: [Linux-aus] Spam :: Linux Device In-Reply-To: <20160425101702.D3DED657C@mailhost.linux.org.au> References: <20160424081223.CDF6564E5@mailhost.linux.org.au> <201604241952.12486.russell@coker.com.au> <04341078cc5d4db6ce80e12b74502459@ausics.net> <20160425050046.E7AE665BA@mailhost.linux.org.au> <20160425190509.36ad81bb@korath.teln.shikadi.net> <20160425101702.D3DED657C@mailhost.linux.org.au> Message-ID: <065601d19edf$0539ba60$0fad2f20$@adam.com.au> Hi Andre, > At the end of it though, my tech is a game changer and even if people do > not use what I have - Spam is dead. And in a few years we will all be on > this system I now have as people will simply copy what I have done and > this is how it will work... I am a few years ahead though and by the time > they start competing I will have ai and some other toys :) Did you even read a word of what Noel said? > more info so that maybe it makes more somewhat more sense: > > the systems are linked together, in clusters, so, for example your > neuron/system would give you full control over your own mail server / > mail servers - as your mail server would query your own system so, you > can remove / add your own blocks and ultimately control what you > receive or do not receive - your system is linked to a cluster (like a cell) of > other systems and the main cluster or main cell is linked to a group of > other cluster controllers or cell controllers > > So, you feed into your own system (by simply either forwarding a spam > email (or users you allow forwarding a spam email to your cluster) and > you can also manage your blocks from a mobile/smartphone/web and > you receive unblock requests from your own system - you can override > the cluster blocks as wel las the system blocks (which is basically the > equiv of a standard dnsbl) > > All of the above works automagically or manually - up to the user / mail > server admin and obviously ALL the data is available on the system (as in > the entire blocklists system, cluster and your own - this give you full and > ultimate control over what your last mile looks like - all of our spam is not > the same - So, yeah, SpamAssassin becomes distributed. > and with regards to my identity, I think anyone that cares enough (has > fu) can use whois, google etc and websites, etc for au needs to be made > - and if I am to work with an Aussie, the name/brands etc may/could > change - and this whole thing is not so much about me as it is basically > finding someone to pitch the au plan to and then to offer to help the list - > but you are of course right - i am wrong... you guys do not know me and I > have never been to any of your meetings and am only part of this > community as a year or so ago I decided to exit my birth country and > investigate moving to au and I guess if I were you I would not trust me > either, so thank you for pointing all that out to me, I actually do > understand and appreciate it Adam :) I am so sorry that you are under the circumstances that you are. > best way forward for me is to try to find an Aussie to work with and as > my future is uncertain - I am not even that sure about anything at the > moment (except that my tech really works well :) ) Spammer 101: vague details, lofty ideals, then an appeal to one's emotions. DSL -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ac at main.me Mon Apr 25 21:04:42 2016 From: ac at main.me (ac) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 13:04:42 +0200 Subject: [Linux-aus] Spam :: Linux Device In-Reply-To: <065601d19edf$0539ba60$0fad2f20$@adam.com.au> References: <20160424081223.CDF6564E5@mailhost.linux.org.au> <201604241952.12486.russell@coker.com.au> <04341078cc5d4db6ce80e12b74502459@ausics.net> <20160425050046.E7AE665BA@mailhost.linux.org.au> <20160425190509.36ad81bb@korath.teln.shikadi.net> <20160425101702.D3DED657C@mailhost.linux.org.au> <065601d19edf$0539ba60$0fad2f20$@adam.com.au> Message-ID: <20160425110403.E63B76554@mailhost.linux.org.au> Dude, seriously, you should rather top post... You posted: (i think?) that i did not read what Noel said? (i did) that I am redistributing spam assassin (i am not - i do not use it) that I am an amateur spammer :) spammer 101 is vague details and appeals to emotion? any linux techie with some experience can read / understand what i am saying instead of a vague accusation - why do you not say exactly what is vague to you so I can explain it better ? did i miss anything? - for sanity - please rather top post :) On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 20:11:25 +0930 "David Lloyd" wrote: > Hi Andre, > > At the end of it though, my tech is a game changer and even if > > people > do > > not use what I have - Spam is dead. And in a few years we will all > > be > on > > this system I now have as people will simply copy what I have done > > and > > this is how it will work... I am a few years ahead though and by the > time > > they start competing I will have ai and some other toys :) > Did you even read a word of what Noel said? > > more info so that maybe it makes more somewhat more sense: > > the systems are linked together, in clusters, so, for example your > > neuron/system would give you full control over your own mail > > server / > > mail servers - as your mail server would query your own system so, > > you > > can remove / add your own blocks and ultimately control what you > > receive or do not receive - your system is linked to a cluster > > (like a > cell) of > > other systems and the main cluster or main cell is linked to a group > of > > other cluster controllers or cell controllers > > So, you feed into your own system (by simply either forwarding a > > spam > > email (or users you allow forwarding a spam email to your cluster) > > and > > you can also manage your blocks from a mobile/smartphone/web and > > you receive unblock requests from your own system - you can override > > the cluster blocks as wel las the system blocks (which is basically > the > > equiv of a standard dnsbl) > > All of the above works automagically or manually - up to the user / > mail > > server admin and obviously ALL the data is available on the system > > (as > in > > the entire blocklists system, cluster and your own - this give you > full and > > ultimate control over what your last mile looks like - all of our > > spam > is not > > the same - > So, yeah, SpamAssassin becomes distributed. > > and with regards to my identity, I think anyone that cares enough > > (has > > fu) can use whois, google etc and websites, etc for au needs to be > made > > - and if I am to work with an Aussie, the name/brands etc may/could > > change - and this whole thing is not so much about me as it is > basically > > finding someone to pitch the au plan to and then to offer to help > > the > list - > > but you are of course right - i am wrong... you guys do not know me > and I > > have never been to any of your meetings and am only part of this > > community as a year or so ago I decided to exit my birth country and > > investigate moving to au and I guess if I were you I would not trust > me > > either, so thank you for pointing all that out to me, I actually do > > understand and appreciate it Adam :) > I am so sorry that you are under the circumstances that you are. > > best way forward for me is to try to find an Aussie to work with and > as > > my future is uncertain - I am not even that sure about anything at > > the > > moment (except that my tech really works well :) ) > Spammer 101: vague details, lofty ideals, then an appeal to one's > emotions. > DSL > From lloy0076 at adam.com.au Mon Apr 25 21:14:59 2016 From: lloy0076 at adam.com.au (David Lloyd) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 20:44:59 +0930 Subject: [Linux-aus] Spam :: Linux Device In-Reply-To: <20160425110403.E63B76554@mailhost.linux.org.au> References: <20160424081223.CDF6564E5@mailhost.linux.org.au> <201604241952.12486.russell@coker.com.au> <04341078cc5d4db6ce80e12b74502459@ausics.net> <20160425050046.E7AE665BA@mailhost.linux.org.au> <20160425190509.36ad81bb@korath.teln.shikadi.net> <20160425101702.D3DED657C@mailhost.linux.org.au> <065601d19edf$0539ba60$0fad2f20$@adam.com.au> <20160425110403.E63B76554@mailhost.linux.org.au> Message-ID: <06a401d19ee3$b51a9cc0$1f4fd640$@adam.com.au> Well, > Dude, seriously, you should rather top post... Really? No. > You posted: (i think?) > > that i did not read what Noel said? (i did) My apologies - to be more precise, then, comprehend. > that I am redistributing spam assassin (i am not - i do not use it) > that I am an amateur spammer :) You're describing a product which sounds very like it. > spammer 101 is vague details and appeals to emotion? No, it implies you don't know what you're talking about; you haven't really proved me wrong. > any linux techie with some experience can read / understand what i am > saying instead of a vague accusation - why do you not say exactly what is > vague to you so I can explain it better ? Others have done so already - why would I bother to do so myself when you clearly don't comprehend what they've said to you? DSL From ac at main.me Mon Apr 25 21:40:22 2016 From: ac at main.me (ac) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 13:40:22 +0200 Subject: [Linux-aus] Spam :: Linux Device In-Reply-To: <06a401d19ee3$b51a9cc0$1f4fd640$@adam.com.au> References: <20160424081223.CDF6564E5@mailhost.linux.org.au> <201604241952.12486.russell@coker.com.au> <04341078cc5d4db6ce80e12b74502459@ausics.net> <20160425050046.E7AE665BA@mailhost.linux.org.au> <20160425190509.36ad81bb@korath.teln.shikadi.net> <20160425101702.D3DED657C@mailhost.linux.org.au> <065601d19edf$0539ba60$0fad2f20$@adam.com.au> <20160425110403.E63B76554@mailhost.linux.org.au> <06a401d19ee3$b51a9cc0$1f4fd640$@adam.com.au> Message-ID: <20160425113949.026B1658D@mailhost.linux.org.au> On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 20:44:59 +0930 "David Lloyd" wrote: > Well, > > Dude, seriously, you should rather top post... > Really? No. > > You posted: (i think?) > > that i did not read what Noel said? (i did) > My apologies - to be more precise, then, comprehend. > in which way then? you simply saying that hardly explains anything... (or makes it so) I do understand that you believe that, but lets move from belief to fact? So, simply say what it is that is not understood/comprehended. > > that I am redistributing spam assassin (i am not - i do not use it) > > that I am an amateur spammer :) > You're describing a product which sounds very like it. > no, actually not. see, so you can learn something even from a vague amateur spammer :) SA works by 'judging' an actual received spam - and a dnsbl rejects spam before your email server receives it as the sender is blacklisted (or accepts email on a whitelist basis - my system does that for ipv6) there are various dnsbl https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_DNS_blacklists SA https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+spamassasin&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 > > spammer 101 is vague details and appeals to emotion? > No, it implies you don't know what you're talking about; you haven't > really proved me wrong. > really? > > any linux techie with some experience can read / understand what i > > am saying instead of a vague accusation - why do you not say > > exactly what > is > > vague to you so I can explain it better ? > Others have done so already - why would I bother to do so myself when > you clearly don't comprehend what they've said to you? > not sure what to say to all that. I guess, the best answer is that my subject is not belief or emotion or anything vague :) - it is science you either are an expert in your field - or you are just an expert - everyone these days is an expert Maybe spend the time and re-read everything that I have written and then if you like I can teach/help/explain something to you - but be exact in what you do not understand as the subjects are rather involved and many on the list probably know the basics already As this is a Linux list - with many many programmers and well skilled Linux sysadmins - I am very sure we can all quickly figure out what is what :) > DSL > > From chris at adebenham.com Mon Apr 25 22:17:04 2016 From: chris at adebenham.com (Chris Debenham) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 22:17:04 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Spam :: Linux Device In-Reply-To: References: <20160424081223.CDF6564E5@mailhost.linux.org.au> <201604241952.12486.russell@coker.com.au> <04341078cc5d4db6ce80e12b74502459@ausics.net> <20160425050046.E7AE665BA@mailhost.linux.org.au> <20160425190509.36ad81bb@korath.teln.shikadi.net> <20160425101702.D3DED657C@mailhost.linux.org.au> <065601d19edf$0539ba60$0fad2f20$@adam.com.au> <20160425110403.E63B76554@mailhost.linux.org.au> <06a401d19ee3$b51a9cc0$1f4fd640$@adam.com.au> <20160425113949.026B1658D@mailhost.linux.org.au> Message-ID: Andre, Perhaps if you wish to be taken seriously you should introduce yourself more fully. Explain who you are, what your technical background is, links to source you have written /contributed to, things like that. By showing a background in related development it would lend credence to your words. -- Please excuse my brevity as this email was sent from my microwave On 25 Apr 2016 9:40 PM, "ac" wrote: On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 20:44:59 +0930 "David Lloyd" wrote: > Well, > > Dude, seriously, you should rather top post... > Really? No. > > You posted: (i think?) > > that i did not read what Noel said? (i did) > My apologies - to be more precise, then, comprehend. > in which way then? you simply saying that hardly explains anything... (or makes it so) I do understand that you believe that, but lets move from belief to fact? So, simply say what it is that is not understood/comprehended. > > that I am redistributing spam assassin (i am not - i do not use it) > > that I am an amateur spammer :) > You're describing a product which sounds very like it. > no, actually not. see, so you can learn something even from a vague amateur spammer :) SA works by 'judging' an actual received spam - and a dnsbl rejects spam before your email server receives it as the sender is blacklisted (or accepts email on a whitelist basis - my system does that for ipv6) there are various dnsbl https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_DNS_blacklists SA https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+spamassasin&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 > > spammer 101 is vague details and appeals to emotion? > No, it implies you don't know what you're talking about; you haven't > really proved me wrong. > really? > > any linux techie with some experience can read / understand what i > > am saying instead of a vague accusation - why do you not say > > exactly what > is > > vague to you so I can explain it better ? > Others have done so already - why would I bother to do so myself when > you clearly don't comprehend what they've said to you? > not sure what to say to all that. I guess, the best answer is that my subject is not belief or emotion or anything vague :) - it is science you either are an expert in your field - or you are just an expert - everyone these days is an expert Maybe spend the time and re-read everything that I have written and then if you like I can teach/help/explain something to you - but be exact in what you do not understand as the subjects are rather involved and many on the list probably know the basics already As this is a Linux list - with many many programmers and well skilled Linux sysadmins - I am very sure we can all quickly figure out what is what :) > DSL > > _______________________________________________ linux-aus mailing list linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ac at main.me Mon Apr 25 23:13:54 2016 From: ac at main.me (ac) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 15:13:54 +0200 Subject: [Linux-aus] Spam :: Linux Device In-Reply-To: References: <20160424081223.CDF6564E5@mailhost.linux.org.au> <201604241952.12486.russell@coker.com.au> <04341078cc5d4db6ce80e12b74502459@ausics.net> <20160425050046.E7AE665BA@mailhost.linux.org.au> <20160425190509.36ad81bb@korath.teln.shikadi.net> <20160425101702.D3DED657C@mailhost.linux.org.au> <065601d19edf$0539ba60$0fad2f20$@adam.com.au> <20160425110403.E63B76554@mailhost.linux.org.au> <06a401d19ee3$b51a9cc0$1f4fd640$@adam.com.au> <20160425113949.026B1658D@mailhost.linux.org.au> Message-ID: <20160425131317.493E16587@mailhost.linux.org.au> On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 22:17:04 +1000 Chris Debenham wrote: > Andre, > Perhaps if you wish to be taken seriously you should introduce > yourself more fully. > Explain who you are, what your technical background is, links to > source you have written /contributed to, things like that. > By showing a background in related development it would lend credence > to your words. > > -- Please excuse my brevity as this email was sent from my microwave bleh, maybe I should have done that before I typed so much... from what i typed my skill/tech background should be clear to my peers and I am not happy about being called a spammer, twice. The second time around even an amateur spammer, whahahahaha I think that I have wasted enough of the lists bandwidth - If anyone is keen on chatting with me about working together, please mail me off list otherwise I do apologize for wasting your bits -- your brevity is cool, i like your microwave, mine only makes popcorn, still trying to teach it to mail... > On 25 Apr 2016 9:40 PM, "ac" wrote: > > On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 20:44:59 +0930 > "David Lloyd" wrote: > > Well, > > > Dude, seriously, you should rather top post... > > Really? No. > > > You posted: (i think?) > > > that i did not read what Noel said? (i did) > > My apologies - to be more precise, then, comprehend. > > > in which way then? you simply saying that hardly explains anything... > (or makes it so) I do understand that you believe that, but lets move > from belief to fact? So, simply say what it is that is not > understood/comprehended. > > > > that I am redistributing spam assassin (i am not - i do not use > > > it) that I am an amateur spammer :) > > You're describing a product which sounds very like it. > > > no, actually not. see, so you can learn something > > even from a vague amateur spammer :) > > SA works by 'judging' an actual received spam - and a dnsbl rejects > spam before your email server receives it as the sender is blacklisted > (or accepts email on a whitelist basis - my system does that for ipv6) > > there are various dnsbl > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_DNS_blacklists > > SA > https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+spamassasin&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 > > > > spammer 101 is vague details and appeals to emotion? > > No, it implies you don't know what you're talking about; you haven't > > really proved me wrong. > > > > really? > > > > any linux techie with some experience can read / understand what i > > > am saying instead of a vague accusation - why do you not say > > > exactly what > > is > > > vague to you so I can explain it better ? > > Others have done so already - why would I bother to do so myself > > when you clearly don't comprehend what they've said to you? > > > > not sure what to say to all that. I guess, the best answer is that my > subject is not belief or emotion or anything vague :) - it is science > > you either are an expert in your field - or you are just an expert - > everyone these days is an expert > > Maybe spend the time and re-read everything that I have written and > then if you like I can teach/help/explain something to you - but be > exact in what you do not understand as the subjects are rather > involved and many on the list probably know the basics already > > As this is a Linux list - with many many programmers and well skilled > Linux sysadmins - I am very sure we can all quickly figure out what is > what :) > > > > > > > > > > > > DSL > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus From lloy0076 at adam.com.au Mon Apr 25 23:29:45 2016 From: lloy0076 at adam.com.au (David Lloyd) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 22:59:45 +0930 Subject: [Linux-aus] Spam :: Linux Device In-Reply-To: <20160425113949.026B1658D@mailhost.linux.org.au> References: <20160424081223.CDF6564E5@mailhost.linux.org.au> <201604241952.12486.russell@coker.com.au> <04341078cc5d4db6ce80e12b74502459@ausics.net> <20160425050046.E7AE665BA@mailhost.linux.org.au> <20160425190509.36ad81bb@korath.teln.shikadi.net> <20160425101702.D3DED657C@mailhost.linux.org.au> <065601d19edf$0539ba60$0fad2f20$@adam.com.au> <20160425110403.E63B76554@mailhost.linux.org.au> <06a401d19ee3$b51a9cc0$1f4fd640$@adam.com.au> <20160425113949.026B1658D@mailhost.linux.org.au> Message-ID: <06b301d19ef6$88bc24b0$9a346e10$@adam.com.au> Aye, > As this is a Linux list - with many many programmers and well skilled Linux > sysadmins - I am very sure we can all quickly figure out what is what :) And you sound like a spammer...you could just show us the source (on gitub or bitbucket or even sourceforge that old workhorse) of what you'fe done...but...that's too hard. Apparently. DSL From russell at coker.com.au Mon Apr 25 23:49:54 2016 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 23:49:54 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Spam :: Linux Device In-Reply-To: References: <20160424081223.CDF6564E5@mailhost.linux.org.au> Message-ID: <201604252349.54579.russell@coker.com.au> On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 10:17:04 PM Chris Debenham wrote: > -- Please excuse my brevity as this email was sent from my microwave https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ot4_jVFXxUU It's apparently possible to send mail from inside a microwave according to the above video. But sending mail via Wifi works better than via 3G. https://greatscottgadgets.com/hackrf/ The above URL has information on the Hack RF One which is featured in the video. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From lloy0076 at adam.com.au Tue Apr 26 00:33:48 2016 From: lloy0076 at adam.com.au (David Lloyd) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 00:03:48 +0930 Subject: [Linux-aus] off list :: Re: Spam :: Linux Device References: <20160424081223.CDF6564E5@mailhost.linux.org.au> <201604241952.12486.russell@coker.com.au> <04341078cc5d4db6ce80e12b74502459@ausics.net> <20160425050046.E7AE665BA@mailhost.linux.org.au> <20160425190509.36ad81bb@korath.teln.shikadi.net> <20160425101702.D3DED657C@mailhost.linux.org.au> <065601d19edf$0539ba60$0fad2f20$@adam.com.au> <20160425110403.E63B76554@mailhost.linux.org.au> <06a401d19ee3$b51a9cc0$1f4fd640$@adam.com.au> <20160425113949.026B1658D@mailhost.linux.org.au> <06b301d19ef6$88bc24b0$9a346e10$@adam.com.au> Message-ID: <000701d19eff$7b7d8dd0$7278a970$@adam.com.au> And you are acting like a bully yourself, in silent; really must you? > -----Original Message----- > From: ac [mailto:ac at main.me] > Sent: Monday, 25 April 2016 11:13 PM > To: David Lloyd > Subject: off list :: Re: [Linux-aus] Spam :: Linux Device > > > David, you should invest the time to read before you choose to insult > people, you are quite ignorant and very rude. - and that in public. > > Not only do you speak utter rubbish but you do not even know what you > are saying > > Did nobody in the past try to help you to be a better person? or do > people generally just keep quiet when you insult them or try to bully > them? > > If you are at all a decent person, you are welcome to tell me what you > want to know - off list - and i will try to help / explain / teach > > up to you. > > > On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 22:59:45 +0930 > "David Lloyd" wrote: > > > > > Aye, > > > As this is a Linux list - with many many programmers and well > > > skilled > > Linux > > > sysadmins - I am very sure we can all quickly figure out what is > > > what > > :) > > And you sound like a spammer...you could just show us the source (on > > gitub or bitbucket or even sourceforge that old workhorse) of what > > you'fe done...but...that's too hard. Apparently. > > DSL > > > > From lloy0076 at adam.com.au Tue Apr 26 01:07:23 2016 From: lloy0076 at adam.com.au (David Lloyd) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 00:37:23 +0930 Subject: [Linux-aus] off list :: Re: Spam :: Linux Device References: <20160424081223.CDF6564E5@mailhost.linux.org.au> <201604241952.12486.russell@coker.com.au> <04341078cc5d4db6ce80e12b74502459@ausics.net> <20160425050046.E7AE665BA@mailhost.linux.org.au> <20160425190509.36ad81bb@korath.teln.shikadi.net> <20160425101702.D3DED657C@mailhost.linux.org.au> <065601d19edf$0539ba60$0fad2f20$@adam.com.au> <20160425110403.E63B76554@mailhost.linux.org.au> <06a401d19ee3$b51a9cc0$1f4fd640$@adam.com.au> <20160425113949.026B1658D@mailhost.linux.org.au> <06b301d19ef6$88bc24b0$9a346e10$@adam.com.au> <000701d19eff$7b7d8dd0$7278a970$@adam.com.au> Message-ID: <000a01d19f04$2c7c6350$857529f0$@adam.com.au> Are you really the person who developed Acounting 1-2-3 ? Why don't you have one of their e-mail addresses? > -----Original Message----- > From: ac [mailto:ac at main.me] > Sent: Tuesday, 26 April 2016 12:24 AM > To: David Lloyd > Subject: Re: off list :: Re: [Linux-aus] Spam :: Linux Device > > On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 00:03:48 +0930 > "David Lloyd" wrote: > > > > And you are acting like a bully yourself, in silent; really must you? > > > Just on definitions: > > firstly, sending an email to a linux list about requiring a linux partner > about a linux device, cannot be spam - spam is unsolicited email > > So: No Spam! > > secondly, I already pointed out, in public, that you were wrong > technically. > > which you did not acknowledge, simply went on to tell me that i sound > like a spammer... bully much?? > > regarding source code of what i have made in the past, does it matter? > > I said 100 000 lines? > > Here is 450 000 lines of source code in GPL from me: > https://github.com/andrecoetzee?tab=repositories > > there are three other accounting systems based on Accounting-123 > alone as I stopped dev in 2009... > > I have similar repositories on sourceforge and I made the first South > Africa Linux distro, Impi Linux - in which I had shares with mark > Shuttleworth, which added the USB automounting code to the Linux > kernel > > I have coded on Postgre and on many projects - from around 1997 > > so, added all up sofar - over 1 000 000 lines of source code in GPL - and I > just said 100 000 - so I have over 1 million lines of GPL and BSD licensed > source code. so what? > > Does it really matter? I am not important - it is not about me or what I > have or have not done > > this is about new technology. - why are you so RUDE??? > > What have I ever done to you??? > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: ac [mailto:ac at main.me] > > > Sent: Monday, 25 April 2016 11:13 PM > > > To: David Lloyd > > > Subject: off list :: Re: [Linux-aus] Spam :: Linux Device > > > > > > > > > David, you should invest the time to read before you choose to > > > insult people, you are quite ignorant and very rude. - and that in > > > public. > > > > > > Not only do you speak utter rubbish but you do not even know what > > > you are saying > > > > > > Did nobody in the past try to help you to be a better person? or do > > > people generally just keep quiet when you insult them or try to > > > bully them? > > > > > > If you are at all a decent person, you are welcome to tell me what > > > you want to know - off list - and i will try to help / explain / > > > teach > > > > > > up to you. > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 22:59:45 +0930 > > > "David Lloyd" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Aye, > > > > > As this is a Linux list - with many many programmers and well > > > > > skilled > > > > Linux > > > > > sysadmins - I am very sure we can all quickly figure out what is > > > > > what > > > > :) > > > > And you sound like a spammer...you could just show us the source > > > > (on gitub or bitbucket or even sourceforge that old workhorse) of > > > > what you'fe done...but...that's too hard. Apparently. > > > > DSL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From nate at polynate.net Mon Apr 25 16:27:00 2016 From: nate at polynate.net (Nathan Bailey) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 16:27:00 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Membership Team update - results of recent survey and key insights In-Reply-To: <571C71EB.8020001@kathyreid.id.au> References: <571AD50F.5060200@kathyreid.id.au> <571C4520.1080000@gear.dyndns.org> <571C71EB.8020001@kathyreid.id.au> Message-ID: As a person who completed the survey and shares similar concerns to Paul, the below insight is the most meaningful part of your answer for me Kathy. However, most of the people who completed the survey are probably not in the 'prospective member' persona, so I'm not sure we've got the right data for the below yet? I'm sure there are good ways to get it though (eg. reach out to some CS departments or even some of the more tech savvy high schools). Keep up the good work, Nathan On 24 April 2016 at 17:12, Kathy Reid wrote: > With respect, you're probably not the sort of person we're trying to reach > with the website. You're already actively engaged, knowledgeable about > Linux - and a Linux Australia member who knows about LCAs, knows about > Council elections and when they're held. The website helps to address the > pipeline issue we have by making more people aware of Linux Australia, our > events, our projects, and the benefits of free membership. In user > experience design, we'd refer to this as 'personas' - understanding > different segments of your user base in order to provide the right > information to them at the right time. Our website probably needs to be > tailored to the 'prospective member' persona - the sort of person who's > interested in LA but isn't sure where to start. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From josh at nitrotech.org Tue Apr 26 07:12:25 2016 From: josh at nitrotech.org (Joshua Hesketh) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 16:12:25 -0500 Subject: [Linux-aus] Event Checklist for Linux Australia events In-Reply-To: <571D80B2.8030501@kathyreid.id.au> References: <571D80B2.8030501@kathyreid.id.au> Message-ID: <571E8839.2080402@nitrotech.org> This is a really great supplement to the subcommittee policy and a great resource for anybody looking to organise an event with LA. Thank you very much for your hard work on this Kathy & Council :-) Cheers, Josh On 24/04/16 21:28, Kathy Reid wrote: > Hi everyone, > > You're receiving this email as you're either on the Linux Australia > general mailing list, or you're currently on an event subcommittee for > a Linux Australia event. > > The Council often receives inquiries along the lines of 'what do I > have to do to run a Linux Australia event?'. Well, we're super excited > that you asked, because now we have a markdown list of what to expect. > Yay lists! It's almost like an agenda :-) > > https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/blob/master/event-checklist.md > > > The Event Checklist doesn't replace our Subcommittee Policy [1], but > does provide a handy list of things to consider to plan your event, > your subcommittee and the administrative structure of running your > event under the Linux Australia umbrella. Think of the policy as the > 'what' and the Event Checklist as the 'how'. > > Furthermore, it assists Council (whose membership changes from year to > year) in ensuring an understanding of any action items that need to be > undertaken by the Linux Australia Council. > > As always, your feedback, suggestions and comments are warmly welcomed. > > A huge thanks to Tony Breeds, Joshua Hesketh and the current Council > for their input and feedback on this Checklist - hugely appreciated. > > With kind regards, > Kathy Reid > > > [1] > https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/blob/master/subcommittee_policy_v2.md > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From chris at adebenham.com Tue Apr 26 13:11:55 2016 From: chris at adebenham.com (Chris Debenham) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 13:11:55 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Spam :: Linux Device In-Reply-To: <20160425131317.493E16587@mailhost.linux.org.au> References: <20160424081223.CDF6564E5@mailhost.linux.org.au> <201604241952.12486.russell@coker.com.au> <04341078cc5d4db6ce80e12b74502459@ausics.net> <20160425050046.E7AE665BA@mailhost.linux.org.au> <20160425190509.36ad81bb@korath.teln.shikadi.net> <20160425101702.D3DED657C@mailhost.linux.org.au> <065601d19edf$0539ba60$0fad2f20$@adam.com.au> <20160425110403.E63B76554@mailhost.linux.org.au> <06a401d19ee3$b51a9cc0$1f4fd640$@adam.com.au> <20160425113949.026B1658D@mailhost.linux.org.au> <20160425131317.493E16587@mailhost.linux.org.au> Message-ID: I'm afraid that nothing you presented makes clear your skill/tech background - or even what your name is. That you haven't even answered these questions when directly asked erodes any good-will you may have had. I had hoped to give you the benefit of the doubt (assuming english as second language) but your avoidance of even basic questions and inability to provide anything backing your words leads me to no longer hold out hope for that. Please remember that you are talking to a group of people who hold linux and open source as greatly important. There are a large number of people with high technical skills and so would expect interactions on such a core topic (email privacy, control and handling is very important) to be done at such a level as to dissuade any fears. If you ever decide to come forward with a proper proposal then people may indeed be interested (maybe not for linux australia lists - but perhaps others) - but based on what you have provided (or not provided) so far - the level of evidence would need to be greatly increased before anyone is likely to be interested. Regards, Chris On 25 April 2016 at 23:13, ac wrote: > On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 22:17:04 +1000 > Chris Debenham wrote: > > Andre, > > Perhaps if you wish to be taken seriously you should introduce > > yourself more fully. > > Explain who you are, what your technical background is, links to > > source you have written /contributed to, things like that. > > By showing a background in related development it would lend credence > > to your words. > > > > -- Please excuse my brevity as this email was sent from my microwave > > bleh, maybe I should have done that before I typed so much... from what > i typed my skill/tech background should be clear to my peers and I am > not happy about being called a spammer, twice. The second time around > even an amateur spammer, whahahahaha > > I think that I have wasted enough of the lists bandwidth - If anyone is > keen on chatting with me about working together, please mail me off list > > otherwise I do apologize for wasting your bits > > -- > your brevity is cool, i like your microwave, mine only makes popcorn, > still trying to teach it to mail... > > > > > > > > > > On 25 Apr 2016 9:40 PM, "ac" wrote: > > > > On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 20:44:59 +0930 > > "David Lloyd" wrote: > > > Well, > > > > Dude, seriously, you should rather top post... > > > Really? No. > > > > You posted: (i think?) > > > > that i did not read what Noel said? (i did) > > > My apologies - to be more precise, then, comprehend. > > > > > in which way then? you simply saying that hardly explains anything... > > (or makes it so) I do understand that you believe that, but lets move > > from belief to fact? So, simply say what it is that is not > > understood/comprehended. > > > > > > that I am redistributing spam assassin (i am not - i do not use > > > > it) that I am an amateur spammer :) > > > You're describing a product which sounds very like it. > > > > > no, actually not. see, so you can learn something > > > > even from a vague amateur spammer :) > > > > SA works by 'judging' an actual received spam - and a dnsbl rejects > > spam before your email server receives it as the sender is blacklisted > > (or accepts email on a whitelist basis - my system does that for ipv6) > > > > there are various dnsbl > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_DNS_blacklists > > > > SA > > https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+spamassasin&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 > > > > > > spammer 101 is vague details and appeals to emotion? > > > No, it implies you don't know what you're talking about; you haven't > > > really proved me wrong. > > > > > > > really? > > > > > > any linux techie with some experience can read / understand what i > > > > am saying instead of a vague accusation - why do you not say > > > > exactly what > > > is > > > > vague to you so I can explain it better ? > > > Others have done so already - why would I bother to do so myself > > > when you clearly don't comprehend what they've said to you? > > > > > > > not sure what to say to all that. I guess, the best answer is that my > > subject is not belief or emotion or anything vague :) - it is science > > > > you either are an expert in your field - or you are just an expert - > > everyone these days is an expert > > > > Maybe spend the time and re-read everything that I have written and > > then if you like I can teach/help/explain something to you - but be > > exact in what you do not understand as the subjects are rather > > involved and many on the list probably know the basics already > > > > As this is a Linux list - with many many programmers and well skilled > > Linux sysadmins - I am very sure we can all quickly figure out what is > > what :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DSL > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > linux-aus mailing list > > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From xrobau at gmail.com Tue Apr 26 13:25:10 2016 From: xrobau at gmail.com (Rob Thomas) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 13:25:10 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Spam :: Linux Device In-Reply-To: References: <20160424081223.CDF6564E5@mailhost.linux.org.au> <201604241952.12486.russell@coker.com.au> <04341078cc5d4db6ce80e12b74502459@ausics.net> <20160425050046.E7AE665BA@mailhost.linux.org.au> <20160425190509.36ad81bb@korath.teln.shikadi.net> <20160425101702.D3DED657C@mailhost.linux.org.au> <065601d19edf$0539ba60$0fad2f20$@adam.com.au> <20160425110403.E63B76554@mailhost.linux.org.au> <06a401d19ee3$b51a9cc0$1f4fd640$@adam.com.au> <20160425113949.026B1658D@mailhost.linux.org.au> <20160425131317.493E16587@mailhost.linux.org.au> Message-ID: As an interested bystander, something that ac may not realise is that the first thing that pops into MY mind when I see that (and possibly a few other people) is that they're referring to 'Anonymous Coward', which is used on Slashdot when someone does not wish to identify themselves. That may not be a deliberate choice on ac's behalf, but maybe that's why their vague comments and lack of actual information may be rubbing people the wrong way. --Rob On 26 April 2016 at 13:11, Chris Debenham wrote: > I'm afraid that nothing you presented makes clear your skill/tech > background - or even what your name is. > That you haven't even answered these questions when directly asked erodes > any good-will you may have had. > I had hoped to give you the benefit of the doubt (assuming english as > second language) but your avoidance of even basic questions and inability > to provide anything backing your words leads me to no longer hold out hope > for that. > Please remember that you are talking to a group of people who hold linux > and open source as greatly important. There are a large number of people > with high technical skills and so would expect interactions on such a core > topic (email privacy, control and handling is very important) to be done at > such a level as to dissuade any fears. > If you ever decide to come forward with a proper proposal then people may > indeed be interested (maybe not for linux australia lists - but perhaps > others) - but based on what you have provided (or not provided) so far - > the level of evidence would need to be greatly increased before anyone is > likely to be interested. > > Regards, > Chris > > > On 25 April 2016 at 23:13, ac wrote: > >> On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 22:17:04 +1000 >> Chris Debenham wrote: >> > Andre, >> > Perhaps if you wish to be taken seriously you should introduce >> > yourself more fully. >> > Explain who you are, what your technical background is, links to >> > source you have written /contributed to, things like that. >> > By showing a background in related development it would lend credence >> > to your words. >> > >> > -- Please excuse my brevity as this email was sent from my microwave >> >> bleh, maybe I should have done that before I typed so much... from what >> i typed my skill/tech background should be clear to my peers and I am >> not happy about being called a spammer, twice. The second time around >> even an amateur spammer, whahahahaha >> >> I think that I have wasted enough of the lists bandwidth - If anyone is >> keen on chatting with me about working together, please mail me off list >> >> otherwise I do apologize for wasting your bits >> >> -- >> your brevity is cool, i like your microwave, mine only makes popcorn, >> still trying to teach it to mail... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > On 25 Apr 2016 9:40 PM, "ac" wrote: >> > >> > On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 20:44:59 +0930 >> > "David Lloyd" wrote: >> > > Well, >> > > > Dude, seriously, you should rather top post... >> > > Really? No. >> > > > You posted: (i think?) >> > > > that i did not read what Noel said? (i did) >> > > My apologies - to be more precise, then, comprehend. >> > > >> > in which way then? you simply saying that hardly explains anything... >> > (or makes it so) I do understand that you believe that, but lets move >> > from belief to fact? So, simply say what it is that is not >> > understood/comprehended. >> > >> > > > that I am redistributing spam assassin (i am not - i do not use >> > > > it) that I am an amateur spammer :) >> > > You're describing a product which sounds very like it. >> > > >> > no, actually not. see, so you can learn something >> > >> > even from a vague amateur spammer :) >> > >> > SA works by 'judging' an actual received spam - and a dnsbl rejects >> > spam before your email server receives it as the sender is blacklisted >> > (or accepts email on a whitelist basis - my system does that for ipv6) >> > >> > there are various dnsbl >> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_DNS_blacklists >> > >> > SA >> > https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+spamassasin&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 >> > >> > > > spammer 101 is vague details and appeals to emotion? >> > > No, it implies you don't know what you're talking about; you haven't >> > > really proved me wrong. >> > > >> > >> > really? >> > >> > > > any linux techie with some experience can read / understand what i >> > > > am saying instead of a vague accusation - why do you not say >> > > > exactly what >> > > is >> > > > vague to you so I can explain it better ? >> > > Others have done so already - why would I bother to do so myself >> > > when you clearly don't comprehend what they've said to you? >> > > >> > >> > not sure what to say to all that. I guess, the best answer is that my >> > subject is not belief or emotion or anything vague :) - it is science >> > >> > you either are an expert in your field - or you are just an expert - >> > everyone these days is an expert >> > >> > Maybe spend the time and re-read everything that I have written and >> > then if you like I can teach/help/explain something to you - but be >> > exact in what you do not understand as the subjects are rather >> > involved and many on the list probably know the basics already >> > >> > As this is a Linux list - with many many programmers and well skilled >> > Linux sysadmins - I am very sure we can all quickly figure out what is >> > what :) >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > DSL >> > > >> > > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > linux-aus mailing list >> > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au >> > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus >> >> _______________________________________________ >> linux-aus mailing list >> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au >> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus >> > > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ac at main.me Tue Apr 26 15:09:27 2016 From: ac at main.me (ac) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 07:09:27 +0200 Subject: [Linux-aus] Spam :: Linux Device In-Reply-To: References: <20160424081223.CDF6564E5@mailhost.linux.org.au> <201604241952.12486.russell@coker.com.au> <04341078cc5d4db6ce80e12b74502459@ausics.net> <20160425050046.E7AE665BA@mailhost.linux.org.au> <20160425190509.36ad81bb@korath.teln.shikadi.net> <20160425101702.D3DED657C@mailhost.linux.org.au> <065601d19edf$0539ba60$0fad2f20$@adam.com.au> <20160425110403.E63B76554@mailhost.linux.org.au> <06a401d19ee3$b51a9cc0$1f4fd640$@adam.com.au> <20160425113949.026B1658D@mailhost.linux.org.au> <20160425131317.493E16587@mailhost.linux.org.au> Message-ID: <20160426050853.B9CF36559@mailhost.linux.org.au> Thank you for taking the time to help me Rob & Chris, here is what I should have posted: Hello, my name is Andre I have developed new Linux based spam technology and I am interested in bringing it to Australia. The reason I am posting to this mailing list is that the technology is built on Linux and I am keen on finding an Australian Linux partner to work with on this project. I am also offering that the list could use this Linux technology, at no cost, and as it functions external (no software to install) to servers and is controlled by the server(s) administrator, the risks to critical infrastructure is mitigated as it could be switched on/off instantaneously. If the risk is still considered to be too high, as I have no track record or credibility and you risk investing/wasting your time, we could revisit this proposal if, or after, I find someone to work with. I do not yet have an AU brand name or any other information as this is not a proposal or sales pitch for my technology, but simply a request for any interested party to contact me off list so that we can discuss the technology and I could demonstrate the workings thereof to such interested party(ies) Should I not find an Australian party, no worries, I will start the venture in a different country and then bring it to Australia at a later time. Thank you for taking the time to read my request and have a nice day Andre On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 13:25:10 +1000 Rob Thomas wrote: > As an interested bystander, something that ac may not realise is that > the first thing that pops into MY mind when I see that (and possibly > a few other people) is that they're referring to 'Anonymous Coward', > which is used on Slashdot when someone does not wish to identify > themselves. > > That may not be a deliberate choice on ac's behalf, but maybe that's > why their vague comments and lack of actual information may be > rubbing people the wrong way. > > --Rob > > > > On 26 April 2016 at 13:11, Chris Debenham wrote: > > > I'm afraid that nothing you presented makes clear your skill/tech > > background - or even what your name is. > > That you haven't even answered these questions when directly asked > > erodes any good-will you may have had. > > I had hoped to give you the benefit of the doubt (assuming english > > as second language) but your avoidance of even basic questions and > > inability to provide anything backing your words leads me to no > > longer hold out hope for that. > > Please remember that you are talking to a group of people who hold > > linux and open source as greatly important. There are a large > > number of people with high technical skills and so would expect > > interactions on such a core topic (email privacy, control and > > handling is very important) to be done at such a level as to > > dissuade any fears. If you ever decide to come forward with a > > proper proposal then people may indeed be interested (maybe not for > > linux australia lists - but perhaps others) - but based on what you > > have provided (or not provided) so far - the level of evidence > > would need to be greatly increased before anyone is likely to be > > interested. > > > > Regards, > > Chris > > > > > > On 25 April 2016 at 23:13, ac wrote: > > > >> On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 22:17:04 +1000 > >> Chris Debenham wrote: > >> > Andre, > >> > Perhaps if you wish to be taken seriously you should introduce > >> > yourself more fully. > >> > Explain who you are, what your technical background is, links to > >> > source you have written /contributed to, things like that. > >> > By showing a background in related development it would lend > >> > credence to your words. > >> > > >> > -- Please excuse my brevity as this email was sent from my > >> > microwave > >> > >> bleh, maybe I should have done that before I typed so much... from > >> what i typed my skill/tech background should be clear to my peers > >> and I am not happy about being called a spammer, twice. The second > >> time around even an amateur spammer, whahahahaha > >> > >> I think that I have wasted enough of the lists bandwidth - If > >> anyone is keen on chatting with me about working together, please > >> mail me off list > >> > >> otherwise I do apologize for wasting your bits > >> > >> -- > >> your brevity is cool, i like your microwave, mine only makes > >> popcorn, still trying to teach it to mail... > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On 25 Apr 2016 9:40 PM, "ac" wrote: > >> > > >> > On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 20:44:59 +0930 > >> > "David Lloyd" wrote: > >> > > Well, > >> > > > Dude, seriously, you should rather top post... > >> > > Really? No. > >> > > > You posted: (i think?) > >> > > > that i did not read what Noel said? (i did) > >> > > My apologies - to be more precise, then, comprehend. > >> > > > >> > in which way then? you simply saying that hardly explains > >> > anything... (or makes it so) I do understand that you believe > >> > that, but lets move from belief to fact? So, simply say what it > >> > is that is not understood/comprehended. > >> > > >> > > > that I am redistributing spam assassin (i am not - i do not > >> > > > use it) that I am an amateur spammer :) > >> > > You're describing a product which sounds very like it. > >> > > > >> > no, actually not. see, so you can learn something > >> > > >> > even from a vague amateur spammer :) > >> > > >> > SA works by 'judging' an actual received spam - and a dnsbl > >> > rejects spam before your email server receives it as the sender > >> > is blacklisted (or accepts email on a whitelist basis - my > >> > system does that for ipv6) > >> > > >> > there are various dnsbl > >> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_DNS_blacklists > >> > > >> > SA > >> > https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+spamassasin&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 > >> > > >> > > > spammer 101 is vague details and appeals to emotion? > >> > > No, it implies you don't know what you're talking about; you > >> > > haven't really proved me wrong. > >> > > > >> > > >> > really? > >> > > >> > > > any linux techie with some experience can read / understand > >> > > > what i am saying instead of a vague accusation - why do you > >> > > > not say exactly what > >> > > is > >> > > > vague to you so I can explain it better ? > >> > > Others have done so already - why would I bother to do so > >> > > myself when you clearly don't comprehend what they've said to > >> > > you? > >> > > > >> > > >> > not sure what to say to all that. I guess, the best answer is > >> > that my subject is not belief or emotion or anything vague :) - > >> > it is science > >> > > >> > you either are an expert in your field - or you are just an > >> > expert - everyone these days is an expert > >> > > >> > Maybe spend the time and re-read everything that I have written > >> > and then if you like I can teach/help/explain something to you - > >> > but be exact in what you do not understand as the subjects are > >> > rather involved and many on the list probably know the basics > >> > already > >> > > >> > As this is a Linux list - with many many programmers and well > >> > skilled Linux sysadmins - I am very sure we can all quickly > >> > figure out what is what :) > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > DSL > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > linux-aus mailing list > >> > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > >> > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> linux-aus mailing list > >> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > >> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > linux-aus mailing list > > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > > > From chris at adebenham.com Tue Apr 26 15:15:19 2016 From: chris at adebenham.com (Chris Debenham) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 15:15:19 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Spam :: Linux Device In-Reply-To: <571ef80d.110d1c0a.5e46.ffff8520SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> References: <20160424081223.CDF6564E5@mailhost.linux.org.au> <201604241952.12486.russell@coker.com.au> <04341078cc5d4db6ce80e12b74502459@ausics.net> <20160425050046.E7AE665BA@mailhost.linux.org.au> <20160425190509.36ad81bb@korath.teln.shikadi.net> <20160425101702.D3DED657C@mailhost.linux.org.au> <065601d19edf$0539ba60$0fad2f20$@adam.com.au> <20160425110403.E63B76554@mailhost.linux.org.au> <06a401d19ee3$b51a9cc0$1f4fd640$@adam.com.au> <20160425113949.026B1658D@mailhost.linux.org.au> <20160425131317.493E16587@mailhost.linux.org.au> <571ef80d.110d1c0a.5e46.ffff8520SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Andre, you still have not responded to any of my concerns. The most basic things are a name, a website, pointers to some relevant source code contributions etc. The only things I could find relating to you online were not encouraging to say the least but I can only assume that you are a different person than the Andre Coetzee that I found reference to online (of who I could find no evidence of code contributions beyond some php code from a few years ago) On 26 April 2016 at 15:09, ac wrote: > > Thank you for taking the time to help me Rob & Chris, here is what I > should have posted: > > Hello, my name is Andre > > I have developed new Linux based spam technology and I am interested in > bringing it to Australia. > > The reason I am posting to this mailing list is that the technology is > built on Linux and I am keen on finding an Australian Linux partner to > work with on this project. > > I am also offering that the list could use this Linux technology, at no > cost, and as it functions external (no software to install) to servers > and is controlled by the server(s) administrator, the risks to critical > infrastructure is mitigated as it could be switched on/off > instantaneously. > > If the risk is still considered to be too high, as I have no track > record or credibility and you risk investing/wasting your time, we > could revisit this proposal if, or after, I find someone to work with. > > I do not yet have an AU brand name or any other information as this is > not a proposal or sales pitch for my technology, but simply a request > for any interested party to contact me off list so that we can discuss > the technology and I could demonstrate the workings thereof to such > interested party(ies) > > Should I not find an Australian party, no worries, I will start the > venture in a different country and then bring it to Australia at a > later time. > > Thank you for taking the time to read my request and have a nice day > > Andre > > > > > On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 13:25:10 +1000 > Rob Thomas wrote: > > > As an interested bystander, something that ac may not realise is that > > the first thing that pops into MY mind when I see that (and possibly > > a few other people) is that they're referring to 'Anonymous Coward', > > which is used on Slashdot when someone does not wish to identify > > themselves. > > > > That may not be a deliberate choice on ac's behalf, but maybe that's > > why their vague comments and lack of actual information may be > > rubbing people the wrong way. > > > > --Rob > > > > > > > > On 26 April 2016 at 13:11, Chris Debenham wrote: > > > > > I'm afraid that nothing you presented makes clear your skill/tech > > > background - or even what your name is. > > > That you haven't even answered these questions when directly asked > > > erodes any good-will you may have had. > > > I had hoped to give you the benefit of the doubt (assuming english > > > as second language) but your avoidance of even basic questions and > > > inability to provide anything backing your words leads me to no > > > longer hold out hope for that. > > > Please remember that you are talking to a group of people who hold > > > linux and open source as greatly important. There are a large > > > number of people with high technical skills and so would expect > > > interactions on such a core topic (email privacy, control and > > > handling is very important) to be done at such a level as to > > > dissuade any fears. If you ever decide to come forward with a > > > proper proposal then people may indeed be interested (maybe not for > > > linux australia lists - but perhaps others) - but based on what you > > > have provided (or not provided) so far - the level of evidence > > > would need to be greatly increased before anyone is likely to be > > > interested. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > On 25 April 2016 at 23:13, ac wrote: > > > > > >> On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 22:17:04 +1000 > > >> Chris Debenham wrote: > > >> > Andre, > > >> > Perhaps if you wish to be taken seriously you should introduce > > >> > yourself more fully. > > >> > Explain who you are, what your technical background is, links to > > >> > source you have written /contributed to, things like that. > > >> > By showing a background in related development it would lend > > >> > credence to your words. > > >> > > > >> > -- Please excuse my brevity as this email was sent from my > > >> > microwave > > >> > > >> bleh, maybe I should have done that before I typed so much... from > > >> what i typed my skill/tech background should be clear to my peers > > >> and I am not happy about being called a spammer, twice. The second > > >> time around even an amateur spammer, whahahahaha > > >> > > >> I think that I have wasted enough of the lists bandwidth - If > > >> anyone is keen on chatting with me about working together, please > > >> mail me off list > > >> > > >> otherwise I do apologize for wasting your bits > > >> > > >> -- > > >> your brevity is cool, i like your microwave, mine only makes > > >> popcorn, still trying to teach it to mail... > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > On 25 Apr 2016 9:40 PM, "ac" wrote: > > >> > > > >> > On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 20:44:59 +0930 > > >> > "David Lloyd" wrote: > > >> > > Well, > > >> > > > Dude, seriously, you should rather top post... > > >> > > Really? No. > > >> > > > You posted: (i think?) > > >> > > > that i did not read what Noel said? (i did) > > >> > > My apologies - to be more precise, then, comprehend. > > >> > > > > >> > in which way then? you simply saying that hardly explains > > >> > anything... (or makes it so) I do understand that you believe > > >> > that, but lets move from belief to fact? So, simply say what it > > >> > is that is not understood/comprehended. > > >> > > > >> > > > that I am redistributing spam assassin (i am not - i do not > > >> > > > use it) that I am an amateur spammer :) > > >> > > You're describing a product which sounds very like it. > > >> > > > > >> > no, actually not. see, so you can learn something > > >> > > > >> > even from a vague amateur spammer :) > > >> > > > >> > SA works by 'judging' an actual received spam - and a dnsbl > > >> > rejects spam before your email server receives it as the sender > > >> > is blacklisted (or accepts email on a whitelist basis - my > > >> > system does that for ipv6) > > >> > > > >> > there are various dnsbl > > >> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_DNS_blacklists > > >> > > > >> > SA > > >> > > https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+spamassasin&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 > > >> > > > >> > > > spammer 101 is vague details and appeals to emotion? > > >> > > No, it implies you don't know what you're talking about; you > > >> > > haven't really proved me wrong. > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > really? > > >> > > > >> > > > any linux techie with some experience can read / understand > > >> > > > what i am saying instead of a vague accusation - why do you > > >> > > > not say exactly what > > >> > > is > > >> > > > vague to you so I can explain it better ? > > >> > > Others have done so already - why would I bother to do so > > >> > > myself when you clearly don't comprehend what they've said to > > >> > > you? > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > not sure what to say to all that. I guess, the best answer is > > >> > that my subject is not belief or emotion or anything vague :) - > > >> > it is science > > >> > > > >> > you either are an expert in your field - or you are just an > > >> > expert - everyone these days is an expert > > >> > > > >> > Maybe spend the time and re-read everything that I have written > > >> > and then if you like I can teach/help/explain something to you - > > >> > but be exact in what you do not understand as the subjects are > > >> > rather involved and many on the list probably know the basics > > >> > already > > >> > > > >> > As this is a Linux list - with many many programmers and well > > >> > skilled Linux sysadmins - I am very sure we can all quickly > > >> > figure out what is what :) > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > DSL > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> > linux-aus mailing list > > >> > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > > >> > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> linux-aus mailing list > > >> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > > >> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > >> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > linux-aus mailing list > > > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > > > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noel.butler at ausics.net Tue Apr 26 15:21:00 2016 From: noel.butler at ausics.net (Noel Butler) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 15:21:00 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Spam :: Linux Device In-Reply-To: <20160425050046.E7AE665BA@mailhost.linux.org.au> References: <20160424081223.CDF6564E5@mailhost.linux.org.au> <201604241952.12486.russell@coker.com.au> <04341078cc5d4db6ce80e12b74502459@ausics.net> <20160425050046.E7AE665BA@mailhost.linux.org.au> Message-ID: <691f1b1491ecb9ad1562c02d30dc7041@ausics.net> On 25/04/2016 15:01, ac wrote: > On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 10:33:42 +1000 > Noel Butler wrote: >> On 24/04/2016 19:52, Russell Coker wrote: >> > On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 05:09:50 PM ac wrote: >> >> I notice that this list and the LUV lists still have the odd spam >> >> getting through bayes, rbl's, etc. >> > The spam that went to this list only got through because there are >> > no SPF >> > checks on the list server. The domain jamespurser.com.au has a SPF >> > record > >> >> SPF Checks should be enforced, I'm amazed they are not. >> > > maybe you will maybe become less amazed when you spend a minute and > learn more about how it works? > maybe you should do some research on who your responding to, I've run ISP mail systems for over 20 years and understand SPF rather well. > Strict SPF enforcement is only as good as SPF records themselves > We certainly agree there > I would venture a guess that the rest of the spam to the AU lists are > stopped by the good work of moderators. Only moderators know the answer to that one :) > > Which workload I offered to reduce. at a cost... > >> >> Secondly, ac's email itself reeks of spam. >> Every "appliance" vendor thinks their device (based on dnsbl and SA >> probably like the other ripp offs) will save the world, yet here we > > glad you use the word "probably" - the truth is that there is not a > single line of SA OSS code in my solution (or that of any dnsbl - it > is all original 100% and from scratch - it is also new tech - so > to call it an dnsbl - is simply so that you will understand roughly > what it is) , so probably was a good word choice :) I'm confused, you think people here reconise and identify rbl's as all encompassing spam fighting? oh dear.... > >> are in 2016 with the same shitstorm of spam to deal with daily - >> thankfully, any half decent configured mail servers with a few >> DNSBL's and spamassassin will stop 99% of spam - always worked for >> me, privately, and commercially. >> > which is why i am doing what i am doing. You do not know this? (it > seems?) but sorbs and some other rbl's are literally at war with each > other. over 50 of gmail.com servers are in some rbl's and this has Why would I not know this? Everyone knows certain DNSBL's are trying to out chest beat each other - its been going on for a very very long time. I've blocked gmail at times too for short periods of time, its enough top get a lot of people pissed off enough to complain to google to get their act together, love or hate Microsoft, one thing I can always say is they deal with spam complaints - unlike google, there are many who disagree with spamhaus's approach that gmail are too big to block - pigs.. if you send a myriad of trash my way you're out, and I don't care who you are :) > caused many hassles the past two weeks. It does not help that yahoo is problems that could be resolved if tehy had people deal with spammers :) > being target attacked by criminals and that microsoft and google is > starting to control the email space (as in monopoly) - there are many > other problems > > and the very rbl's that you now so strongly rely on, > > you may wake up one morning and find out that they all do not work Not likely to happen, but now your starting your salesman speech > and if you think now that there is a "shitstorm" switch off your rbls > > for exactly 5 minutes - and see the result... > > would it not be better for you to have your own data and be in total > control yourself? yep. salesman mode :) so about here I switch off. From ac at main.me Tue Apr 26 15:49:25 2016 From: ac at main.me (ac) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 07:49:25 +0200 Subject: [Linux-aus] Spam :: Linux Device In-Reply-To: References: <20160424081223.CDF6564E5@mailhost.linux.org.au> <04341078cc5d4db6ce80e12b74502459@ausics.net> <20160425050046.E7AE665BA@mailhost.linux.org.au> <20160425190509.36ad81bb@korath.teln.shikadi.net> <20160425101702.D3DED657C@mailhost.linux.org.au> <065601d19edf$0539ba60$0fad2f20$@adam.com.au> <20160425110403.E63B76554@mailhost.linux.org.au> <06a401d19ee3$b51a9cc0$1f4fd640$@adam.com.au> <20160425113949.026B1658D@mailhost.linux.org.au> <20160425131317.493E16587@mailhost.linux.org.au> <571ef80d.110d1c0a.5e46.ffff8520SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20160426054848.38A6A6592@mailhost.linux.org.au> Chris, Why do you insist that I address your/my/anyone's concerns in public? And with regards websites, brand names, etc. as I did clearly say originally and again in my revision - I do not yet have any of that. - please read the revision again, for clarity. Why is it relevant or why does it matter what open source projects I personally have contributed to? Are you demanding and insisting on that information because i reacted to someone on this list insinuating that I "rip off" other people's work? Please explain or educate and help me understand the Linux Australia community better: Someone posted on this list that people who redistribute spamassassin are STEALING/THEFT (rip off) someone else's work. Nobody - except myself, reacted to that So, Linux Australia considers someone who sells a Linux DVD as a thief? I find some people's reactions very combative (and rude) I honestly do not know why. It cannot be because you do not have my home address and it cannot be because I am unwilling to tell you something - there is no onus on me to give any information on a public list. Anyway, I withdraw my request and I do honestly apologize for wasting the lists time. This will be my last reply on this - even if someone were to call me a monkey :) So have fun, insult me some more, demand more things as "proof" and good luck with that. On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 15:15:19 +1000 Chris Debenham wrote: > Andre, you still have not responded to any of my concerns. > The most basic things are a name, a website, pointers to some relevant > source code contributions etc. > The only things I could find relating to you online were not > encouraging to say the least but I can only assume that you are a > different person than the Andre Coetzee that I found reference to > online (of who I could find no evidence of code contributions beyond > some php code from a few years ago) > > On 26 April 2016 at 15:09, ac wrote: > > > > > Thank you for taking the time to help me Rob & Chris, here is what I > > should have posted: > > > > Hello, my name is Andre > > > > I have developed new Linux based spam technology and I am > > interested in bringing it to Australia. > > > > The reason I am posting to this mailing list is that the technology > > is built on Linux and I am keen on finding an Australian Linux > > partner to work with on this project. > > > > I am also offering that the list could use this Linux technology, > > at no cost, and as it functions external (no software to install) > > to servers and is controlled by the server(s) administrator, the > > risks to critical infrastructure is mitigated as it could be > > switched on/off instantaneously. > > > > If the risk is still considered to be too high, as I have no track > > record or credibility and you risk investing/wasting your time, we > > could revisit this proposal if, or after, I find someone to work > > with. > > > > I do not yet have an AU brand name or any other information as this > > is not a proposal or sales pitch for my technology, but simply a > > request for any interested party to contact me off list so that we > > can discuss the technology and I could demonstrate the workings > > thereof to such interested party(ies) > > > > Should I not find an Australian party, no worries, I will start the > > venture in a different country and then bring it to Australia at a > > later time. > > > > Thank you for taking the time to read my request and have a nice day > > > > Andre > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 13:25:10 +1000 > > Rob Thomas wrote: > > > > > As an interested bystander, something that ac may not realise is > > > that the first thing that pops into MY mind when I see that (and > > > possibly a few other people) is that they're referring to > > > 'Anonymous Coward', which is used on Slashdot when someone does > > > not wish to identify themselves. > > > > > > That may not be a deliberate choice on ac's behalf, but maybe > > > that's why their vague comments and lack of actual information > > > may be rubbing people the wrong way. > > > > > > --Rob > > > > > > > > > > > > On 26 April 2016 at 13:11, Chris Debenham > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I'm afraid that nothing you presented makes clear your > > > > skill/tech background - or even what your name is. > > > > That you haven't even answered these questions when directly > > > > asked erodes any good-will you may have had. > > > > I had hoped to give you the benefit of the doubt (assuming > > > > english as second language) but your avoidance of even basic > > > > questions and inability to provide anything backing your words > > > > leads me to no longer hold out hope for that. > > > > Please remember that you are talking to a group of people who > > > > hold linux and open source as greatly important. There are a > > > > large number of people with high technical skills and so would > > > > expect interactions on such a core topic (email privacy, > > > > control and handling is very important) to be done at such a > > > > level as to dissuade any fears. If you ever decide to come > > > > forward with a proper proposal then people may indeed be > > > > interested (maybe not for linux australia lists - but perhaps > > > > others) - but based on what you have provided (or not provided) > > > > so far - the level of evidence would need to be greatly > > > > increased before anyone is likely to be interested. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > On 25 April 2016 at 23:13, ac wrote: > > > > > > > >> On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 22:17:04 +1000 > > > >> Chris Debenham wrote: > > > >> > Andre, > > > >> > Perhaps if you wish to be taken seriously you should > > > >> > introduce yourself more fully. > > > >> > Explain who you are, what your technical background is, > > > >> > links to source you have written /contributed to, things > > > >> > like that. By showing a background in related development it > > > >> > would lend credence to your words. > > > >> > > > > >> > -- Please excuse my brevity as this email was sent from my > > > >> > microwave > > > >> > > > >> bleh, maybe I should have done that before I typed so much... > > > >> from what i typed my skill/tech background should be clear to > > > >> my peers and I am not happy about being called a spammer, > > > >> twice. The second time around even an amateur spammer, > > > >> whahahahaha > > > >> > > > >> I think that I have wasted enough of the lists bandwidth - If > > > >> anyone is keen on chatting with me about working together, > > > >> please mail me off list > > > >> > > > >> otherwise I do apologize for wasting your bits > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> your brevity is cool, i like your microwave, mine only makes > > > >> popcorn, still trying to teach it to mail... > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > On 25 Apr 2016 9:40 PM, "ac" wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> > On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 20:44:59 +0930 > > > >> > "David Lloyd" wrote: > > > >> > > Well, > > > >> > > > Dude, seriously, you should rather top post... > > > >> > > Really? No. > > > >> > > > You posted: (i think?) > > > >> > > > that i did not read what Noel said? (i did) > > > >> > > My apologies - to be more precise, then, comprehend. > > > >> > > > > > >> > in which way then? you simply saying that hardly explains > > > >> > anything... (or makes it so) I do understand that you believe > > > >> > that, but lets move from belief to fact? So, simply say what > > > >> > it is that is not understood/comprehended. > > > >> > > > > >> > > > that I am redistributing spam assassin (i am not - i do > > > >> > > > not use it) that I am an amateur spammer :) > > > >> > > You're describing a product which sounds very like it. > > > >> > > > > > >> > no, actually not. see, so you can learn something > > > >> > > > > >> > even from a vague amateur spammer :) > > > >> > > > > >> > SA works by 'judging' an actual received spam - and a dnsbl > > > >> > rejects spam before your email server receives it as the > > > >> > sender is blacklisted (or accepts email on a whitelist basis > > > >> > - my system does that for ipv6) > > > >> > > > > >> > there are various dnsbl > > > >> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_DNS_blacklists > > > >> > > > > >> > SA > > > >> > > > https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+spamassasin&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 > > > >> > > > > >> > > > spammer 101 is vague details and appeals to emotion? > > > >> > > No, it implies you don't know what you're talking about; > > > >> > > you haven't really proved me wrong. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > really? > > > >> > > > > >> > > > any linux techie with some experience can read / > > > >> > > > understand what i am saying instead of a vague > > > >> > > > accusation - why do you not say exactly what > > > >> > > is > > > >> > > > vague to you so I can explain it better ? > > > >> > > Others have done so already - why would I bother to do so > > > >> > > myself when you clearly don't comprehend what they've said > > > >> > > to you? > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > not sure what to say to all that. I guess, the best answer is > > > >> > that my subject is not belief or emotion or anything > > > >> > vague :) - it is science > > > >> > > > > >> > you either are an expert in your field - or you are just an > > > >> > expert - everyone these days is an expert > > > >> > > > > >> > Maybe spend the time and re-read everything that I have > > > >> > written and then if you like I can teach/help/explain > > > >> > something to you - but be exact in what you do not > > > >> > understand as the subjects are rather involved and many on > > > >> > the list probably know the basics already > > > >> > > > > >> > As this is a Linux list - with many many programmers and well > > > >> > skilled Linux sysadmins - I am very sure we can all quickly > > > >> > figure out what is what :) > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > DSL > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > > >> > linux-aus mailing list > > > >> > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > > > >> > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> linux-aus mailing list > > > >> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > > > >> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > linux-aus mailing list > > > > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > > > > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > > > > > > > > > > > From chris at adebenham.com Tue Apr 26 15:53:15 2016 From: chris at adebenham.com (Chris Debenham) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 15:53:15 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Spam :: Linux Device In-Reply-To: <571f016b.02afc20a.93cb3.5174SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> References: <20160424081223.CDF6564E5@mailhost.linux.org.au> <04341078cc5d4db6ce80e12b74502459@ausics.net> <20160425050046.E7AE665BA@mailhost.linux.org.au> <20160425190509.36ad81bb@korath.teln.shikadi.net> <20160425101702.D3DED657C@mailhost.linux.org.au> <065601d19edf$0539ba60$0fad2f20$@adam.com.au> <20160425110403.E63B76554@mailhost.linux.org.au> <06a401d19ee3$b51a9cc0$1f4fd640$@adam.com.au> <20160425113949.026B1658D@mailhost.linux.org.au> <20160425131317.493E16587@mailhost.linux.org.au> <571ef80d.110d1c0a.5e46.ffff8520SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> <571f016b.02afc20a.93cb3.5174SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> Message-ID: ...and I'm out. On 26 April 2016 at 15:49, ac wrote: > > Chris, > > Why do you insist that I address your/my/anyone's concerns in public? > > And with regards websites, brand names, etc. as I did clearly say > originally and again in my revision - I do not yet have any of that. - > please read the revision again, for clarity. > > Why is it relevant or why does it matter what open source projects I > personally have contributed to? > Are you demanding and insisting on that information because i reacted > to someone on this list insinuating that I "rip off" other people's > work? > > Please explain or educate and help me understand the Linux Australia > community better: > > Someone posted on this list that people who redistribute spamassassin > are STEALING/THEFT (rip off) someone else's work. > > Nobody - except myself, reacted to that > > So, Linux Australia considers someone who sells a Linux DVD as a thief? > > I find some people's reactions very combative (and rude) I honestly do > not know why. It cannot be because you do not have my home address and > it cannot be because I am unwilling to tell you something - there is no > onus on me to give any information on a public list. > > Anyway, I withdraw my request and I do honestly apologize for wasting > the lists time. This will be my last reply on this - even if someone > were to call me a monkey :) > > So have fun, insult me some more, demand more things as "proof" and > good luck with that. > > On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 15:15:19 +1000 > Chris Debenham wrote: > > Andre, you still have not responded to any of my concerns. > > The most basic things are a name, a website, pointers to some relevant > > source code contributions etc. > > The only things I could find relating to you online were not > > encouraging to say the least but I can only assume that you are a > > different person than the Andre Coetzee that I found reference to > > online (of who I could find no evidence of code contributions beyond > > some php code from a few years ago) > > > > On 26 April 2016 at 15:09, ac wrote: > > > > > > > > Thank you for taking the time to help me Rob & Chris, here is what I > > > should have posted: > > > > > > Hello, my name is Andre > > > > > > I have developed new Linux based spam technology and I am > > > interested in bringing it to Australia. > > > > > > The reason I am posting to this mailing list is that the technology > > > is built on Linux and I am keen on finding an Australian Linux > > > partner to work with on this project. > > > > > > I am also offering that the list could use this Linux technology, > > > at no cost, and as it functions external (no software to install) > > > to servers and is controlled by the server(s) administrator, the > > > risks to critical infrastructure is mitigated as it could be > > > switched on/off instantaneously. > > > > > > If the risk is still considered to be too high, as I have no track > > > record or credibility and you risk investing/wasting your time, we > > > could revisit this proposal if, or after, I find someone to work > > > with. > > > > > > I do not yet have an AU brand name or any other information as this > > > is not a proposal or sales pitch for my technology, but simply a > > > request for any interested party to contact me off list so that we > > > can discuss the technology and I could demonstrate the workings > > > thereof to such interested party(ies) > > > > > > Should I not find an Australian party, no worries, I will start the > > > venture in a different country and then bring it to Australia at a > > > later time. > > > > > > Thank you for taking the time to read my request and have a nice day > > > > > > Andre > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 13:25:10 +1000 > > > Rob Thomas wrote: > > > > > > > As an interested bystander, something that ac may not realise is > > > > that the first thing that pops into MY mind when I see that (and > > > > possibly a few other people) is that they're referring to > > > > 'Anonymous Coward', which is used on Slashdot when someone does > > > > not wish to identify themselves. > > > > > > > > That may not be a deliberate choice on ac's behalf, but maybe > > > > that's why their vague comments and lack of actual information > > > > may be rubbing people the wrong way. > > > > > > > > --Rob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 26 April 2016 at 13:11, Chris Debenham > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I'm afraid that nothing you presented makes clear your > > > > > skill/tech background - or even what your name is. > > > > > That you haven't even answered these questions when directly > > > > > asked erodes any good-will you may have had. > > > > > I had hoped to give you the benefit of the doubt (assuming > > > > > english as second language) but your avoidance of even basic > > > > > questions and inability to provide anything backing your words > > > > > leads me to no longer hold out hope for that. > > > > > Please remember that you are talking to a group of people who > > > > > hold linux and open source as greatly important. There are a > > > > > large number of people with high technical skills and so would > > > > > expect interactions on such a core topic (email privacy, > > > > > control and handling is very important) to be done at such a > > > > > level as to dissuade any fears. If you ever decide to come > > > > > forward with a proper proposal then people may indeed be > > > > > interested (maybe not for linux australia lists - but perhaps > > > > > others) - but based on what you have provided (or not provided) > > > > > so far - the level of evidence would need to be greatly > > > > > increased before anyone is likely to be interested. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 25 April 2016 at 23:13, ac wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 22:17:04 +1000 > > > > >> Chris Debenham wrote: > > > > >> > Andre, > > > > >> > Perhaps if you wish to be taken seriously you should > > > > >> > introduce yourself more fully. > > > > >> > Explain who you are, what your technical background is, > > > > >> > links to source you have written /contributed to, things > > > > >> > like that. By showing a background in related development it > > > > >> > would lend credence to your words. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > -- Please excuse my brevity as this email was sent from my > > > > >> > microwave > > > > >> > > > > >> bleh, maybe I should have done that before I typed so much... > > > > >> from what i typed my skill/tech background should be clear to > > > > >> my peers and I am not happy about being called a spammer, > > > > >> twice. The second time around even an amateur spammer, > > > > >> whahahahaha > > > > >> > > > > >> I think that I have wasted enough of the lists bandwidth - If > > > > >> anyone is keen on chatting with me about working together, > > > > >> please mail me off list > > > > >> > > > > >> otherwise I do apologize for wasting your bits > > > > >> > > > > >> -- > > > > >> your brevity is cool, i like your microwave, mine only makes > > > > >> popcorn, still trying to teach it to mail... > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > On 25 Apr 2016 9:40 PM, "ac" wrote: > > > > >> > > > > > >> > On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 20:44:59 +0930 > > > > >> > "David Lloyd" wrote: > > > > >> > > Well, > > > > >> > > > Dude, seriously, you should rather top post... > > > > >> > > Really? No. > > > > >> > > > You posted: (i think?) > > > > >> > > > that i did not read what Noel said? (i did) > > > > >> > > My apologies - to be more precise, then, comprehend. > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > in which way then? you simply saying that hardly explains > > > > >> > anything... (or makes it so) I do understand that you believe > > > > >> > that, but lets move from belief to fact? So, simply say what > > > > >> > it is that is not understood/comprehended. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > that I am redistributing spam assassin (i am not - i do > > > > >> > > > not use it) that I am an amateur spammer :) > > > > >> > > You're describing a product which sounds very like it. > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > no, actually not. see, so you can learn something > > > > >> > > > > > >> > even from a vague amateur spammer :) > > > > >> > > > > > >> > SA works by 'judging' an actual received spam - and a dnsbl > > > > >> > rejects spam before your email server receives it as the > > > > >> > sender is blacklisted (or accepts email on a whitelist basis > > > > >> > - my system does that for ipv6) > > > > >> > > > > > >> > there are various dnsbl > > > > >> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_DNS_blacklists > > > > >> > > > > > >> > SA > > > > >> > > > > https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+spamassasin&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > spammer 101 is vague details and appeals to emotion? > > > > >> > > No, it implies you don't know what you're talking about; > > > > >> > > you haven't really proved me wrong. > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > really? > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > any linux techie with some experience can read / > > > > >> > > > understand what i am saying instead of a vague > > > > >> > > > accusation - why do you not say exactly what > > > > >> > > is > > > > >> > > > vague to you so I can explain it better ? > > > > >> > > Others have done so already - why would I bother to do so > > > > >> > > myself when you clearly don't comprehend what they've said > > > > >> > > to you? > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > not sure what to say to all that. I guess, the best answer is > > > > >> > that my subject is not belief or emotion or anything > > > > >> > vague :) - it is science > > > > >> > > > > > >> > you either are an expert in your field - or you are just an > > > > >> > expert - everyone these days is an expert > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Maybe spend the time and re-read everything that I have > > > > >> > written and then if you like I can teach/help/explain > > > > >> > something to you - but be exact in what you do not > > > > >> > understand as the subjects are rather involved and many on > > > > >> > the list probably know the basics already > > > > >> > > > > > >> > As this is a Linux list - with many many programmers and well > > > > >> > skilled Linux sysadmins - I am very sure we can all quickly > > > > >> > figure out what is what :) > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > DSL > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > > > >> > linux-aus mailing list > > > > >> > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > > > > >> > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > > > >> > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > >> linux-aus mailing list > > > > >> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > > > > >> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > linux-aus mailing list > > > > > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > > > > > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mattcen at gmail.com Tue Apr 26 16:01:27 2016 From: mattcen at gmail.com (Matthew Cengia) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 16:01:27 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Spam :: Linux Device In-Reply-To: <20160426054848.38A6A6592@mailhost.linux.org.au> References: <20160425113949.026B1658D@mailhost.linux.org.au> <20160425131317.493E16587@mailhost.linux.org.au> <571ef80d.110d1c0a.5e46.ffff8520SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> <20160426054848.38A6A6592@mailhost.linux.org.au> Message-ID: <20160426060126.GC20637@owen.cengia.id.au> On 2016-04-26 07:49, ac wrote: > > Chris, > > Why do you insist that I address your/my/anyone's concerns in public? Because this is a community-driven organisation, so it benefits everyone here to read your responses to Chris' queries, since they are pertinent to whether or not we consider you proposed solution viable. Transparency in this sort of scenario is a good thing, and these sorts of discussions should not happen behind closed doors. If they are, then I'm skeptical as to why that needs to be the case: what is there to hide? [...] > Why is it relevant or why does it matter what open source projects I > personally have contributed to? [...] For my own part, I would want this information to determine some level of credibility. From where I sit, you have given a textual and unclear technical description of your solution, and little else, then seem to expect us to accept a black-box system whose internal workings we can't verify for ourselves by viewing the source code or similar, and asking us to trust that system enough to send information about our email into it, not knowing whether that information will be going anywhere else. For the most part, all we have from you is your word that you've done this research, written that code, contributed to such-and-such a project, and are working on a revolutionary black-box solution to solve all the world's spam problems; forgive me if I'm suspicious that it seems a bit too good to be true, and prefer not to trust you to see any part of my emails, even if it's just the sender/recipient domains/addresses. [...] -- Regards, Matthew Cengia -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 966 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From russell at coker.com.au Tue Apr 26 22:04:41 2016 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 22:04:41 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Spam :: Linux Device In-Reply-To: <20160426060126.GC20637@owen.cengia.id.au> References: <20160425113949.026B1658D@mailhost.linux.org.au> <20160426054848.38A6A6592@mailhost.linux.org.au> <20160426060126.GC20637@owen.cengia.id.au> Message-ID: <201604262204.41661.russell@coker.com.au> On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 04:01:27 PM Matthew Cengia wrote: > Because this is a community-driven organisation, so it benefits everyone > here to read your responses to Chris' queries, since they are pertinent > to whether or not we consider you proposed solution viable. in regard to the issue of whether Linux Australia could use his proposed anti- spam system, the answer is obviously "no". For YEARS we had a problem where mail to the committee would be bounced if the sender had a SPF record with "-all", this was well known but not fixed. Also we have had ongoing issues of spam to the list that could be fixed by SPF checks. Both these problems are much easier to solve than implementing a newly developed anti-spam system. In terms of developing software to improve lists I have a design for a system that would significantly improve things. Have a list server that will create a new mailing list and automatically subscribe everyone who posted to a particular thread (based on email threading AND subject matching). Then all messages to the main list which match the thread in question get redirected to the new list and people who post such messages geet subscribed to the new list. That would allow people who want to keep on discussing an issue to do so for as long as they like without filling the inboxes of people who aren't interested. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ From kathy at kathyreid.id.au Tue Apr 26 23:59:21 2016 From: kathy at kathyreid.id.au (Kathy Reid) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 23:59:21 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Productivity commission public inquiry into Data Availability and Use Message-ID: <571F7439.1000705@kathyreid.id.au> Some of the open data and open government practitioners on this list may be interested in making a submission to this inquiry; http://www.pc.gov.au/inquiries/current/data-access/issues Kind regards, Kathy From kathy at kathyreid.id.au Thu Apr 28 07:21:56 2016 From: kathy at kathyreid.id.au (Kathy Reid) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 07:21:56 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Membership Team - linux.org.au site wireframes - Level 0 Message-ID: <57212D74.5040209@kathyreid.id.au> Hi everyone, The Membership Team has progressed a little further based on the results of the recent survey, and we now have for comment and feedback an initial wireframe of the landing page (Level 0) in desktop and mobile view. We'd really appreciate your thoughts and feedback. Some of the internal feedback has been; - do we want a featured job on the home page, and what happens if there isn't a featured job? - are there any elements missing which should be on the Level 0 page? The wireframes are done in Pencil - http://pencil.evolus.vn/ - and originals are in a public GitHub repo - https://github.com/KathyReid/LA-sitedesign-2016 Your feedback will help inform wireframing of the lower level pages (Level 1, 2 and so on). In parallel we will continue with platform identification and selection. Kind regards, Kathy Reid, Sae Ra Germaine, Cameron Tudball, Luke John, Joel Addison, Michael Cordover, Neill Cox The Membership Team -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: la-site-redesign-wireframes-25April16.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 72390 bytes Desc: not available URL: From josh at nitrotech.org Thu Apr 28 07:48:22 2016 From: josh at nitrotech.org (Joshua Hesketh) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 16:48:22 -0500 Subject: [Linux-aus] Membership Team - linux.org.au site wireframes - Level 0 In-Reply-To: <57212D74.5040209@kathyreid.id.au> References: <57212D74.5040209@kathyreid.id.au> Message-ID: <572133A6.2070200@nitrotech.org> Nice mock up :-) On 27/04/16 16:21, Kathy Reid wrote: > Hi everyone, > > The Membership Team has progressed a little further based on the > results of the recent survey, and we now have for comment and feedback > an initial wireframe of the landing page (Level 0) in desktop and > mobile view. We'd really appreciate your thoughts and feedback. > > Some of the internal feedback has been; > > - do we want a featured job on the home page, and what happens if > there isn't a featured job? I'm not sure we need to put links to actual jobs on the home page. A link to the jobs page is important (as it's a popular part of the site) but it'd be unfair to feature some jobs more than others. Due to the erratic rate they come in having the most recent ones would be uneven. We could rotate through them, but we also don't remove jobs ever (unless by request). Instead employers just advertise when the position close. I don't think we gain anything from having them listed on the home page to make it worth it. > - are there any elements missing which should be on the Level 0 page? Projects. Not sure if we want to revive this section, but getting exposure to things like zookeepr, registrasion, tim's videos or other projects important or supported to LA could be cool. It'd also be nice to have things like grant requests, follow ups and progress reports etc. CHeers, Josh > > The wireframes are done in Pencil - http://pencil.evolus.vn/ - and > originals are in a public GitHub repo - > https://github.com/KathyReid/LA-sitedesign-2016 > > Your feedback will help inform wireframing of the lower level pages > (Level 1, 2 and so on). In parallel we will continue with platform > identification and selection. > > Kind regards, > > Kathy Reid, Sae Ra Germaine, Cameron Tudball, Luke John, Joel Addison, > Michael Cordover, Neill Cox > The Membership Team > > > > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From web at polynate.net Thu Apr 28 08:54:50 2016 From: web at polynate.net (Nathan Bailey) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 08:54:50 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Membership Team - linux.org.au site wireframes - Level 0 Message-ID: On 28 April 2016 at 07:48, Joshua Hesketh wrote: > I'm not sure we need to put links to actual jobs on the home page. A link > to the jobs page is important (as it's a popular part of the site) but it'd > be unfair to feature some jobs more than others. Due to the erratic rate > they come in having the most recent ones would be uneven. We could rotate > through them, but we also don't remove jobs ever (unless by request). > Instead employers just advertise when the position close. I don't think we > gain anything from having them listed on the home page to make it worth it. > You could rotate jobs that are less than one month old? It does raise the question of what to display if there are none <1 month old though. Projects. > > Not sure if we want to revive this section, but getting exposure to things > like zookeepr, registrasion, tim's videos or other projects important or > supported to LA could be cool. It'd also be nice to have things like grant > requests, follow ups and progress reports etc. > I *really* like the idea of updates on grant requests and LA-affiliated projects. Where grant requests have resulted in something with some longevity, it would be cool to get updated reports too, if the grantees were willing ("Here's what's happening six months later"). For events, we could have a 1-2 minute video of testimonials from attendees, "I'm glad I came to Drupal AU, it's really helped me see how to do X better." This would be some indigenous content that would actually support/drive LA's brand. -N -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tleeuwenburg at gmail.com Thu Apr 28 09:04:16 2016 From: tleeuwenburg at gmail.com (Tennessee Leeuwenburg) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 09:04:16 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Membership Team - linux.org.au site wireframes - Level 0 In-Reply-To: <57212D74.5040209@kathyreid.id.au> References: <57212D74.5040209@kathyreid.id.au> Message-ID: Hi Kathy, I think this looks absolutely fantastic in terms of bringing the most relevant content onto the front page. I'm no designer, so I won't comment on the aesthetics. The only thing which I personally think should be given top billing is something about the organisation's policies.Things like the code of conduct, and any other documents/publications such as submissions to government etc. Regards, -Tennessee On 28 April 2016 at 07:21, Kathy Reid wrote: > Hi everyone, > > The Membership Team has progressed a little further based on the results > of the recent survey, and we now have for comment and feedback an initial > wireframe of the landing page (Level 0) in desktop and mobile view. We'd > really appreciate your thoughts and feedback. > > Some of the internal feedback has been; > > - do we want a featured job on the home page, and what happens if there > isn't a featured job? > - are there any elements missing which should be on the Level 0 page? > > The wireframes are done in Pencil - http://pencil.evolus.vn/ - and > originals are in a public GitHub repo - > https://github.com/KathyReid/LA-sitedesign-2016 > > Your feedback will help inform wireframing of the lower level pages (Level > 1, 2 and so on). In parallel we will continue with platform identification > and selection. > > Kind regards, > > Kathy Reid, Sae Ra Germaine, Cameron Tudball, Luke John, Joel Addison, > Michael Cordover, Neill Cox > The Membership Team > > > > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus > > -- -------------------------------------------------- Tennessee Leeuwenburg http://myownhat.blogspot.com/ "Don't believe everything you think" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From secretary at linux.org.au Thu Apr 28 23:13:48 2016 From: secretary at linux.org.au (Linux Australia Secretary) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 23:13:48 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Recent Linux Australia website issues - VPAC Closure Message-ID: <57220C8C.3000004@linux.org.au> Dear Linux Australia Colleagues, In line with our values of openness and transparency, we'd like to communicate recent developments regarding the recent VPAC/V3 Alliance closure [^1]. The closure has had some impacts to Linux Australia?s infrastructure, and we'd like to describe what they are, what we're doing about them, and what you might observe. ### Background In November 2015, Linux Australia was made aware of the announcement of the closure of the Victorian based eResearch co-operative 'V3 Alliance'. Two of Linux Australia's servers at the time were hosted by the Victorian Partnership for Advanced Computing (VPAC), a member of the co-operative. Linux Australia contacted VPAC, who indicated that funding existed for VPAC to continue to operate through to 30 June 2016. Following discussions between the Linux Australia Council and the Admin team, the Admin team was authorised to locate new hosting for these servers as a matter of priority. Discussions were started with a department within a university located within Victoria to seek hosting space and support as a matter of urgency. In early December, contacts at VPAC in December advised Linux Australia that as the majority of staff had moved onto other organisations, VPAC would now be auspiced by the University that had hosted their offices and equipment rooms, effective 1 January 2016. As a result the pace of negotiations increased, this was however subsequently postponed due to impending Christmas and New Year holiday periods. The Admin team ensured the servers located at VPAC were clearly marked with identifying information, and backups of the devices continued. New equipment was purchased to facilitate the rapid deployment of new hardware once a hosting agreement could be negotiated. In March 2016, the conversations regarding hosting were restarted, and planning began for a staged and managed migration away from the old hardware to the new server hardware when the equipment had a new home. #### April 19 2016 At 3pm, the Admin team received notifications from the monitoring system that the two servers at VPAC, and the virtual machines that run on them, were no longer reachable. As the VPAC website was also offline, the Admin team advised Council that it was highly likely the servers had been powered off. Through conversations with previous staff of VPAC, it was confirmed the site was in a decommissioning process, and the number for the contractor decommissioning the room was obtained. The contractor was notified of the equipment in the room, and negotiations began for its recovery. The contractor worked with the project manager from the hosting institution, and an agreement was reached to permit the servers to be brought back online for 2 hours the following morning. It was immediately identified with the loss of these servers that the functional email accounts, such as hostmaster, council and domain admin, were offline until service could be restored. The Admin team subsequently undertook the following steps; - Council was updated on the status of the servers - Backups of the servers hosted at VPAC were analysed, and a number of files were found to be missing from backups due to permissions on the host server. - Several of the files found to be missing were ones required to update the root DNS glue for the linux.org.au and linux.conf.au domains. Replacement codes were requested with the expectation these would be delivered the next morning when the servers came online. - Plans were made to change the delegation of the two domains, however, due to the nature of change requests on the linux.conf.au domain, the Admin team reached out to Jo Lim, our contact at AUDA to determine the best alternate method to change the delegation should it be needed. - New VMs were prepared on LA servers in Canberra to take over the roles previously provided by the servers in Melbourne. #### April 20 2016 At 8.30am, the Admin team were notified the servers were back online, and backup jobs were started to recover the missing files. Once these were complete, entire directory trees on both servers were compressed and copied to a remote server. While these jobs were running, a DNS server was stood up and configured with the zone files from the previous DNS server hosted in Victoria. The codes required for DNS glue changes were also recovered at this time. The last files were recovered from the servers at 11.05am, and the equipment was powered down by the contractors and removed from the racks. Backups of the Linux Australia wed, DNS and mail systems were prioritised over other sites, which meant that the LCA2010 and LCA2012 sites were not backed up from their host servers before power was removed. Around 2pm, the replacement DNS server was ready, and root glue for the dns server 'russell.linux.org.au' was changed with the registrar. Once this was live, the secondary DNS was updated around 3.30pm to pull from the new server, and DNS was returned for the linux.org.au and linux.conf.au domain. Whilst plans had been well underway to migrate the @linux.org.au email to a new system, the Admin team proposed, and Council wholeheartedly agreed, that the risk at this point was too high, and the legacy configuration would be stood up on a new VM. The Admin team focussed their work on this service for the remainder of the night. #### April 21 2016 The legacy mail server was bought online at 10.30am, and the majority of normal mail flow returned. The logs were monitored and issues were resolved as they were identified. Around 6pm the Admin team started to restore the community and LUG websites from backups, however following discussion within the team, the decision was made to postpone this work to give team members a break and prevent burnout or critical mistakes from occurring, and also to deal with personal matters that required their attention.. Linux Australia reached out to our friends at AARNet to recover the servers from the Datacentre on our behalf at the same time they recovered their equipment. #### April 22 2016 Work re-commenced on the recovery of websites, continues at this time. The Linux Australia blog aggregation site ?planet.linux.org.au? is managed by a different team than the Admin team, and they will work on returning this functionality over the coming week. AARNet notified the Admin team that the servers have been recovered, and plans are underway to have the equipment shipped to the Admin team so that a final backup can be taken ### Current situation - April 28 2016 During Wednesday 20th April you may have observed the following symptoms; - Slow or non-delivery of email to some Linux Australia mailing lists - Slow or non-delivery of email to Linux Australia email addresses (ie president at linux.org.au) - Sporadic outages of Linux Australia web based properties such as www.linux.org.au, www.linux.conf.au and MemberDB. At the time of writing, the current status of infrastructure is as follows; - DNS services have been restored onto new infrastructure. - DNS secondary services, kindly provided by Andrew Pollock, have now been updated and are retrieving records correctly - linux.org.au is resolving and online - linux.conf.au is resolving and online - Non-core sites such as some Linux Australia hosted LUG sites, Linux Australia Planet, radio and hosted sites etc are offline as their respective backends are still in the process of being restored. ### How was this allowed to occur? Whilst Linux Australia had undertaken all possible means to ensure the equipment was identified as belonging to the organisation, ownership was mistakenly attributed to a Victorian linux users group, who also had equipment hosted in the room. The room was decommissioned at 9 weeks ahead of the last shutdown date given, which meant that migration works had not yet been completed. ### Was any data lost? It is too early to determine this, however once the servers have been received by the Admin team, a complete analysis of the servers will be undertaken and an update given to Council. Was any personal data leaked? Linux Australia believe the chain of ownership (VPAC to HPC Contractor to AARNet to LA) has protected any personal information held on the servers. ### Why does this keep happening to Linux Australia? Linux Australia has previously relied on the good-will of the community or commercial organisations to host the server infrastructure. These agreements are often non-binding, and, in some previous situations, have been revoked at short notice following a change in business ownership. Starting in 2012, hosting agreements were prepared for new servers that ensures Linux Australia receives plenty of advance notice, and also outlines a clear communication path for any changes to the hosting situation. All new LA servers are clearly marked with the organisational details, as well as at least 2 contact numbers should an issue arise. ### What can I do to help LA? Linux Australia servers are currently hosted at sites connected to the AARNet network, as these sites are connected onto a high speed white space network, and transfers between these sites are considered to be unmetered. If you work at a higher-education institution that is connected to the AARNet network, and are open to hosting several rack-units of equipment and have IP space available, please contact the Council. ### Planned future actions The Admin Team, with Council's approval, is not going to migrate mail to the new system immediately. Instead, a new server environment has been built to host the legacy mail configuration, and the migration planning has been picked up from where it was left. Linux Australia has long pursued a strategy of controlling our own virtual machines and the underlying hardware. This approach gives us the ability to resolve hardware issues much faster than a hosting company. It also provides greater flexibility for scheduling maintenance. Linux Australia has usually partnered with Universities for hosting, given that transfers on the AARNet network are un-metered, reducing the cost of data transfers. Our current needs are for 2RU of rack space, a /28 block of IP space (14 usable addresses) without filtering, and a large amount of data transfer. The Admin Team is currently liaising with some Universities located in Victoria to identify if it's possible for them to host the Linux Australia server equipment. Council and Admin Team will review alternative options for hosting in due course to ensure alignment with Linux Australia's ongoing needs in this space. Any transition will be well planned. ### Feedback As always, we warmly welcome your comments, queries and feedback. [^1]: https://www.google.com/url?q=https://web.archive.org/web/20160307103442/http:// www.vpac.org/node/1318&sa=D&ust=1461163795106000&usg= AFQjCNF5_J9jLDEGY0pyFjZ4tllU6uweXg Kind Regards, Sae Ra -- Sae Ra Germaine Secretary Linux Australia secretary at linux.org.au http://linux.org.au Linux Australia Inc GPO Box 4788 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia ABN 56 987 117 479 From andrew at donnellan.id.au Fri Apr 29 14:39:35 2016 From: andrew at donnellan.id.au (Andrew Donnellan) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 14:39:35 +1000 Subject: [Linux-aus] Productivity Commission Draft Report into Intellectual Property Arrangements Message-ID: The Productivity Commission has just released its draft report into Australia's intellectual property system. http://www.pc.gov.au/inquiries/current/intellectual-property#draft Public submissions to be taken into consideration for the final report (to be published in August) are due by Friday 3 June. Of particular note - they recommend abolishing software and business methods patents, introducing a "fair use" system and working to significantly shorten the term of copyright. I notice OSIA and Kim Weatherall, among others, are quoted a few times :) -- Andrew Donnellan http://andrew.donnellan.id.au andrew at donnellan.id.au From tom at eastman.net.nz Fri Apr 29 16:12:21 2016 From: tom at eastman.net.nz (Tom Eastman) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:12:21 +1200 Subject: [Linux-aus] Spam :: Linux Device In-Reply-To: <20160424081223.CDF6564E5@mailhost.linux.org.au> References: <20160424081223.CDF6564E5@mailhost.linux.org.au> Message-ID: <5722FB45.30205@eastman.net.nz> I'm sorry to have missed out on this strange little episode. The second I saw the original email, I was reminded of the Slashdot Spam-Solution Form Letter (below) I thought I'd have a go at filling it out, but frankly, there weren't any actual details for me to make an assessment. This 'joke' email has existed in one form or another since at least 2002, probably longer. Andre, if you are still reading: the fact that this form response even exists should give you a hint as to why the community reacts with scepticism and cynicism towards strangers proposing vague solutions to entrenched problems. Yours very sincerely, Tom > Your post advocates a > > ( ) technical ( ) legislative ( ) market-based ( ) vigilante > > approach to fighting spam. Your idea will not work. Here is why it won't work. (One or more of the following may apply to your particular idea, and it may have other flaws which used to vary from state to state before a bad federal law was passed.) > > ( ) Spammers can easily use it to harvest email addresses > ( ) Mailing lists and other legitimate email uses would be affected > ( ) No one will be able to find the guy or collect the money > ( ) It is defenseless against brute force attacks > ( ) It will stop spam for two weeks and then we'll be stuck with it > ( ) Users of email will not put up with it > ( ) Microsoft will not put up with it > ( ) The police will not put up with it > ( ) Requires too much cooperation from spammers > ( ) Requires immediate total cooperation from everybody at once > ( ) Many email users cannot afford to lose business or alienate potential employers > ( ) Spammers don't care about invalid addresses in their lists > ( ) Anyone could anonymously destroy anyone else's career or business > > Specifically, your plan fails to account for > > ( ) Laws expressly prohibiting it > ( ) Lack of centrally controlling authority for email > ( ) Open relays in foreign countries > ( ) Ease of searching tiny alphanumeric address space of all email addresses > ( ) Asshats > ( ) Jurisdictional problems > ( ) Unpopularity of weird new taxes > ( ) Public reluctance to accept weird new forms of money > ( ) Huge existing software investment in SMTP > ( ) Susceptibility of protocols other than SMTP to attack > ( ) Willingness of users to install OS patches received by email > ( ) Armies of worm riddled broadband-connected Windows boxes > ( ) Eternal arms race involved in all filtering approaches > ( ) Extreme profitability of spam > ( ) Joe jobs and/or identity theft > ( ) Technically illiterate politicians > ( ) Extreme stupidity on the part of people who do business with spammers > ( ) Dishonesty on the part of spammers themselves > ( ) Bandwidth costs that are unaffected by client filtering > ( ) Outlook > > and the following philosophical objections may also apply: > > ( ) Ideas similar to yours are easy to come up with, yet none have ever > been shown practical > ( ) Any scheme based on opt-out is unacceptable > ( ) SMTP headers should not be the subject of legislation > ( ) Blacklists suck > ( ) Whitelists suck > ( ) We should be able to talk about Viagra without being censored > ( ) Countermeasures should not involve wire fraud or credit card fraud > ( ) Countermeasures should not involve sabotage of public networks > ( ) Countermeasures must work if phased in gradually > ( ) Sending email should be free > ( ) Why should we have to trust you and your servers? > ( ) Incompatiblity with open source or open source licenses > ( ) Feel-good measures do nothing to solve the problem > ( ) Temporary/one-time email addresses are cumbersome > ( ) I don't want the government reading my email > ( ) Killing them that way is not slow and painful enough > > Furthermore, this is what I think about you: > > ( ) Sorry dude, but I don't think it would work. > ( ) This is a stupid idea, and you're a stupid person for suggesting it. > ( ) Nice try, assh0le! I'm going to find out where you live and burn your > house down! From email at lukejohn.me Fri Apr 29 18:48:21 2016 From: email at lukejohn.me (Luke John) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 16:48:21 +0800 Subject: [Linux-aus] TPP Submission on behalf of Linux Australia In-Reply-To: <20160415211124.295fb383@korath.teln.shikadi.net> References: <570F42A5.507@blemings.org> <20160415211124.295fb383@korath.teln.shikadi.net> Message-ID: Thank you very much for putting this excellent submission together. On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 7:11 PM, Adam Nielsen wrote: > Hi Hugh, > >> I am pleased to advise that last month I submitted a response to the >> Australian Government in relation to the Senate Committee on the TPP on >> behalf of Linux Australia. > > Thank you for your effort submitting this on our behalf. I am very > grateful that you have taken the time to do this, as I think it is > extremely important for us to make our voice heard. > > I always wish I had more time to do things like this myself, so I > really appreciate the work that you and everyone else have put into > this response. I know it is not always easy to fit things like this in > with all your other commitments. > >> I am grateful for the tireless efforts of Josh Stewart on the >> preparation of this and to Kim Weatherall for her assistance with >> research and discussion. > > Thank you both as well! I thought the submission was very well put > together. > > Cheers, > Adam. > _______________________________________________ > linux-aus mailing list > linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus