Re: [Linux-aus] Vista v. Linux Movie

[Nigel Cunningham <nigel@nigel.suspend2.net>]

Hi.

On Tue, 2007-02-06 at 15:52 +1100, Brent Wallis wrote:
> Gidday
> 
> On 2/6/07, Paul Wayper <paul.wayper@anu.edu.au> wrote:
> > 1) It costs nothing to install and use.
> No. That is incorrect. Cost is not just money. I believe that this is
> a very wrong thing to try and promote. Linux is NOT free as in
> beer....I avoid the "F" word at all costs.

It's true that cost is not just money; it's time to learn the technology
and so on. But Linux is free as in beer - you and I don't have to pay
anything to obtain the right to use it.

> > 2) You get a huge bunch of software to use for free, as well as the
> > operating system.  (Apple's iLife and Windows' supplied software are but
> > a tiny patch on what we offer.)
> > 3) You can give it away to friends and family to use.
> > 4) You get industry-standard, time-test, proven firewall and security
> > software.
> No be careful. I have seen many a poorly configured FW using IPTABLES.
> I have made part of my living out of fixing them up!

Right. But the default is at least generally to be secure, and the fixup
jobs are due to people trying unsuccessfully to customise things.

> > 5) You get provably faster security updates and less time vulnerable to
> > attacks.
> This is a very big plus to promote!!
> 
> 
> > 6) You get proven data security and (a certain amount of) freedom from
> > vendor lock-in.
> No NOT proven data security...no no no. It is only as good as the
> person installing and admining. FOSS so far looks like it has a more
> robust model to protect from these things but the jury is and should
> always be out on these matters....

But to start with (as said above), you do get proven data security and
freedom from vendor lock in. Just as is the case with M$, you can then
go and shoot yourself in the foot. But that doesn't negate the argument
Paul is making.

> Sorry...this also flys out the window given the SUSE/MS deal...there
> is lockin coming out of that that will make us think the old lockin
> was easy to deal with...

I disagree. I think the jury is out on the SuSe/MS deal at the moment.
Long term there's at least a reasonable probability that it will prove
to be irrelevant to lock-in issues.

> > There are probably others.  And I have no problem with having ads which
> > don't put a totally consistent, 'everyone must sing from the same
> > hymnbook' face on what Linux offers.  Human beings are diverse; we learn
> > and experience in different ways, we find different things attractive
> > and interesting.  One of the Linux and FLOSS community's greatest
> > strengths is our diversity of approach.  This should come across in our
> > presentation.  A hundred people making videos on why they personally
> > like Linux will 'win more hearts' (IMO) than a single
> > glossy-but-soulless consistant, conformant approach.
> Unfortunately this is not the case. Instead, it presents a shattered
> "wabble of woudy webels" to lay people...instead of what you think it
> presents. Old marketing maxim:
> Perception in 9/10 of the Truth!

Shouldn't that be: "Perception is 9/10 of what is needed to get a sale"?
There is certainly something to be said for standardisation and
consistent presentation. But there's also something to be said for
showing the ability to customise and tune to your preferences.

> > > 2. We live in a world where our target audience mostly don't read
> > > newspapers and their TV screen time is far and away out done by their
> > > Internet screen time.
> >
> > Nonsense.  We aren't going after the wireheads who are glued to their
> > computers all day.
> Woa...if you could point to some evidence that supports this I am all ears.
> I have 3 children aged 13 to 20....I guarantee you that they and their
> peers spend less than 1 hr a day in front of TV....all and every set
> of demographics that has come across my desk in the last 3 years
> supports this trend 1000 percent (I can;t release as they are
> proprietary studies...but a simple Google search on the matter brings
> up plenty of supporting evidence...try "The Long Tail"
> Rule 2 in marketing: ...make sure you identify the majority trends,
> and understand that they may not be what YOU think!

I don't care about whether they're glued to electronics or not, or about
whether they're in the majority or the minority. Irrespective of how
often they use their computer or what they use it for, don't we want all
people everywhere to know that Linux can meet their computing needs for
security, flexibility, reliability, ease of use, range of applications
and so on.

> >We're going after the people who use computers (at
> > home and/or work) and also watch TV, read newspapers, see billboards and
> > hear radio programmes.  Indeed, I would argue that to advertise only on
> > the internet is to miss a lot of people who (IMO) need to learn about
> > the benefits that FLOSS can provide.
> No. The stats do not bear this out.

Use any and all means that are suitable.

> An example of the sort of "attitude" I mean is
> > > partially  represented by this IPod add on Youtube:
> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JJZiZHVovU
> > > (apologies to any blonds on the list...:-) )
> > That, to me, is a typical Apple ad.  What's it saying?  Who knows!  It
> > certainly isn't saying anything good about how easy it is to understand
> > what an iPod is doing.  To me it's fairly crass and sexist.  Even if you
> > wanted to buy into a lifestyle inhabited by hip-looking
> > twenty-somethings, why all of a sudden is an iPod part of that (and one
> > that you can mistake for a home pregnancy kit, it would seem)?  The ad
> > certainly doesn't help you there.
> Once again, the majority of the target audience for this ad would
> disagree with you!....
> Sure its crass ....but it is very very popular and represents a
> lifestyle choice..
> Its target audience should be the same as ours....

But at the end of the ad, what do you remember? I remember that it was a
blonde joke. I'm no more likely to buy an ithingy (see, I'm not even
sure what the name of it is!). Ads can be memorable and funny and so on,
but at the end of the day, if you don't remember what they're trying to
say - or sell - they're useless. As a preacher, I have to apply this to
my illustrations and examples all the time.

> > I would argue that building the expectation of a style of life, and
> > creating the need for a product as part of fitting in with that
> > expectation, is such a 90's marketing tool.  People have wised up to it
> > - people recognise that trick and discard it.  It's overplayed,
> > overdone, and there's too much competition for it to be effective now.
> Rule 3 in marketing:
> Collective populations have short memories... Whilst you and I may be
> wise to the tricks, they remain the same, just dressed differently!
> You speak of advertising 90s style...the reality is that its been the
> same since time started...since the first "Neanderthal Saturday
> Morning Flea Market"...only the things being sold and the delivery
> methods have changed...:-)
> 
> > But what _is_ working is viral memes, subversive stuff that sees the
> > underdog win, and seeing 'the truth' behind the corporate gloss.
> I have to disagree very strongly here...the underdog winning...etc has
> never won me business....ever... and only serves to alienate potential
> clients. When we interview in the place I am working at the moment,
> any potential candidate that brings these types of arguments up as
> valid support for Linux is never called back, no matter how great a
> tech they may be.... Please understand that this technique is only a
> very small part of what got us this far but it will not, under any
> circumstance hold water going forward. You will chase your potential
> clients away if you promote as such. The "underdog nonsense" was old
> in 2001 and even older now. Linux is already in big corporates...it
> aint subversive any more...:-) MS use the "underdog" card to belittle
> Linux and FOSS in the marketplace...don;t help them keep doing it!
> 
> Marketing Rule 4: People like to be part of something and will always
> fall on the side of majority opinion and taste.
> 
> That rule is played over and over and over by politicians and it works
> for them now in the same way it did 500 years ago...the trick is to
> get the general population to feel good about a move.

If that 'Marketing Rule' was true, none of us would be using or working
on Linux or working on minority projects (like Suspend2).

Hmm. This whole reply seems very negative. Sorry about that, but I
really disagree with some of the things you've written.

Regards,

Nigel