Re: [Linux-aus] Representation

[Leon Brooks <leon@cyberknights.com.au>]

On Tuesday 04 February 2003 03:21 pm, Anthony Towns wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 02:32:21PM +0800, Leon Brooks wrote:
>>>> The professional organisations also need Australia-wide
>>>> representation, to deal with Australia-wide corporations (as do the
>>>> LUGs for dealing with Feds as well as State gummints)

> Well, what you said was "the LUGs / need Australia-wide representation
> to deal with / State gummints".

Not quite. The State LUGs deal with state governments. In order to deal 
effectively with the Feds as well, they need Oz-wide representation.

> It seems like you're saying we don't need Australia-wide
> representation for dealing with the States in general, just to clean up
> whatever mess has been created in Canberra.

>From a State LUG's perspective, yes. And that latter is no mean task. (-:

>> Is LA any different? If you want an ivory tower, you'll have to bring the
>> ivory.

> I don't know. I see a lot of "we want to insulate ourselves from the LUGs"

Actually, it's "we don't want to *interfere* with the LUGs".

> and "we want to go talk to the politicians in Canberra and the vendors and
> wear ties and dress up like important people";

You're blending two separate concepts. On the suit-and-tie front, SLPWA and 
fellow travellers will occasionally have use for speaking through LA to 
suit-and-tie Feds (or Oz-wide corporations) who won't deal at less than an 
Oz-wide level, and won't respect you very much unless your tie cost more than 
the entire outfit I wore to LCA (shoes included) and goes with your suit.

As a separate concept, not a suit or tie in sight except possibly on the 
opposite side of a desk, the LUGs will occasionally have issues with Federal 
policy and legislation, and the person at the other side of the desk will 
still not be interested in talking to State bodies.

Finally, there will be times when it's handy to weild the entire Australian 
Linux community as a single heterogenous political weapon.

> together, that seems like
> it has a fair chance of making LA end up different, even if it isn't yet.

Well, _I_ think it needs to be different anyway, and Spice gave that concept 
his official blessing right here on this list, and a lot of the stuff Anand 
has done is aimed at that, and Pia seems to be working on that, four opinions 
so far, I think you might be on to something... (-:

> This is largely in contradiction to the charter statement ``Linux
> Australia will work with User Groups, Clubs and other Linux organisations
> as a peer.'' Linux Australia simply isn't a peer to the LUGs in the
> obvious sense -- it has no chance of developing any local flavour because
> it's _not_ local; and it can't really do anything directly with people
> because there are just too many people, spread too widely for that to
> work. What it can do is work with the LUGs to achieve its goals, but it
> has to be at least partly subordinate to the LUGs for that to make any
> real sense at all.

Good point.

>>> I assume someone'll call me delusional if cross-over between Linux
>>> hackers and Linux suits is really a no-no, but it seems like a good
>>> idea to me.

>> If both sides are prepared for an event like that, fine. Day-to-day, it
>> will work for a minority of each, but not for a mjority of each
>> community.

> That seems pretty much the definition of a SIG to me; and if most people
> are part of the PLUG community already anyway then that's perfectly great.

That's effectively what SLPWA is, but run differently to PLUG so that it can 
do appropriate things like have stands at business conferences, or charge 
what would to an unemployed member be outrageous fees, but which are still 
trivial compared to (say) an ACM corporate membership fee.

Cheers; Leon

-- 
http://cyberknights.com.au/     Modern tools; traditional dedication
http://plug.linux.org.au/       Member, Perth Linux User Group
http://slpwa.asn.au/            Committee Member, Linux Professionals WA
http://linux.org.au/            Committee Member, Linux Australia
http://linux.org.au/~leonb/lca2003/  THE Oz Linux Technical Conf:
                                excellent event, photos here!