[Computerbank] Re: [cai-sa] Teen Challenge -Network

[Daniel Stone]

De-workifying myself now ...

On Mon, Mar 31, 2003 at 11:38:45AM +0930, Peter Gossner scrawled:
> That fantastic ... um why not ...?  Or have I heard all this before..

Because it's not easy to use; I, as someone who's been using computers
for 9 years, and worked on a desktop environment, struggled to configure
GNOME to do what I want.

> In my opinion both are valid choices though I come down on the side of
> Gnome2 ..

Yet you go on to tell us all how KDE is the devilspawn, and will eat our
children.

> This is totally my own and probably bent opinion but KDE not only sucks
> it's positively evil, just a free version of windows.

Haw. You haven't backed your argument at all, just made a childish
assertion without any proof. It's also not a "free version of windows"
in any way. We co-ordinate extensively with GNOME and other
capital-F-Free desktop projects, all our file formats are open, as is
all of our source code - nothing is proprietary (more than I can say
for, oh, Ximian).

If you would care to back your assertions up, then maybe I might bother
continuing this debate further, but at this childish, ad-hominem-like
rate, it's not.

> If you like that sort of thing well great go for it .. thats your
> problem. 
> To indoctrinate clean minds with that idiom should be , and in my
> opinion, is a crime against choice, intelligence and diversity. I like
> to use my computer not see how much RAM I can afford / fit in  my ageing
> mother board.

See below - it's usable with a couple of minor tweaks. I agree that its
out of the box configuration isn't the best, by a long shot. It doesn't
make it "evil" and "suck[y]".

As I say below, too, I believe in *educating* people about
desktop/application *fundamentals*, not just teaching them how one
particular product works. That's never the answer, ever.

> NOTE : I think they both suck .
> 
> Gnome 2 sucks somewhat less . 
> It uses XML for most things has multiple paths for development  etc
> etc... i18N.

KDE uses XML where appropriate, and plain text when not (KOffice
documents are XML). KDE had i18n a couple of years before GNOME, too.

> At least it leaves your system alone, runs faster and gives you real
> choices. 

How does KDE intefere with your system? I've done side-by-side testing
of KDE and GNOME on a few boxes, and they come out equal if you bother
to tweak anything at all. I was using KDE on a P100 with 32mb of RAM for
quite some time, and it was perfectly usable.

> It also has a future. If you learn Gnome you can learn any desktop.
> .. Still RAM is cheap processor speeds are high, support bad code I
> don't care, just make sure they learn to fish beyond going to the Mall.
> To totally bend a metaphore)

I agree that teaching them Windows methodologies is bad, and that
*educating* them with desktops, is a good thing. My current setup looks
and feels *nothing* like Windows, especially with I play with slicKer.
If you'd spent more than 30 seconds in the KDE Control Centre, you'd
realise that it's actually *far* more customisable than GNOME, and the
whole Windows thing is yet another myth propagated by the same
KDE-bashing crowd who believe it's evil because Qt was, at some point,
not GPLed (ironically, Ximian now claim KDE sucks *because* it's GPLed,
so you can't do propreitary apps on it, and have paid off show
organizers to prevent KDE people from speaking in previously arranged
timeslots, and get more GNOME people in. Oh well).

> Gee one day with DSL and I get all grumpy :)

It's showing.

-- 
Daniel Stone 	     <daniel at raging.dropbear.id.au>             <dstone at kde.org>
Developer - http://kopete.kde.org, http://www.kde.org
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