<!DOCTYPE html><html><head><title></title><style type="text/css">p.MsoNormal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style></head><body><p class="p1" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;font-stretch:normal;font-size:17px;line-height:normal;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;-webkit-text-size-adjust:auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width:0px;text-decoration-line:none;"><span class="s1" style="font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;"><span class="font" style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody;"><span class="size" style="font-size:17px;">I confess that, having read this thread up and down, I am not certain what you are attempting to achieve with your queries.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>You’re likely within your rights to ask these questions, but I doubt the result is going to be that LCA runs in 2023. It is more likely to be taking time and attention away from the conference that *is* trying to run, not to mention a significant amount of emotional labour on behalf of many people reading this list.</span></span></span><br></p><p class="p2" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;font-stretch:normal;font-size:17px;line-height:normal;min-height:22px;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;-webkit-text-size-adjust:auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width:0px;text-decoration-line:none;"><br></p><p class="p1" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;font-stretch:normal;font-size:17px;line-height:normal;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;-webkit-text-size-adjust:auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width:0px;text-decoration-line:none;"><span class="s1" style="font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;"><span class="font" style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody;"><span class="size" style="font-size:17px;">Changes are not always easy to deal with, it’s true. I know many of us were looking forward to a conference to get together with our communities after a long and weird couple of years, and probably expected it would be LCA. As a member of the community, I’m just as pleased for EO to take that space as LCA, and I’m really glad that there are folks in the community who still have the energy to put an event together in their spare time.</span></span></span><br></p><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>On Sun, 23 Oct 2022, at 8:20 AM, Marcus Herstik via linux-aus wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite" id="qt" style=""><div dir="ltr"><div>Hi Kathy,<br></div><div><br></div><div>Thanks for the information. <br></div><div><br></div><div><div><br></div><div dir="ltr"><blockquote type="cite">On 22 Oct 2022, at 12:00 pm, Kathy Reid via linux-aus <linux-aus@lists.linux.org.au> wrote:<br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p>I'd like to address your proposals from a constitutional
perspective. <br></p></div></blockquote><div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);">What do you propose if Council, or one member, does not do as the Constitution states must be done?<br></div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);">On the 17th at 9:30am I made a request of the Secretary (via email to secretary@linux.org.au as I was advised to use) for specific information, under the constitution.<br></div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);">As of Friday no response has been received, nor has there been a reply or any indication that they are working on it. <br></div></div><div>I will leave you (and everyone else) to consider if Friday was the 5th business day. <br></div></div><div><div>I look forward to reporting soon whether I receive it. <br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p><br></p><p>you can only make change if you're able to know the
structures through which power is wielded.<br></p></div></blockquote><div>And if they choose to respond. <br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p>Moreover, the Council
is now in the busiest period of their working year,<br></p></div></blockquote><div>They chose to put on a new event, so that is their choice and the members do not need to make exceptions for their choice. <br></div><div>If they couldn’t deal with it and there is a conflict of time (or interests) their position on the LA Council comes first, with regards to LA and OE. <br></div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p>and is dealing
with a significant additional workload as a result of these
discussions<br></p></div></blockquote><div>I fail to see how it is “significant” besides reading some emails. They don’t respond to each email, nor do they have to. <br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p>3. Assigning primacy to Linux Conference Australia in the mission
statement, statement of values or other guiding principles of the
organisation<br></p></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p>There is nothing constitutionally to stop the LA Council from
assigning primacy to a particular event, purpose or activity in
the guiding principles of the organisation. <br></p></div></blockquote><div>And there is nothing to stop the LA Council from entering a penguin in a dog show. (Except getting the penguin.) <br></div></div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p><br></p><p>However, you may wish to consider whether LCA actually does have
primacy in the way that Linux Australia currently operates. For
example, in terms of gross revenue, LCA over the last two
reporting periods accounted for about only a third of Linux
Australia's profit.<br></p></div></blockquote><div>That’s a significant amount. <br></div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p>I've taken the liberty of visualising this in
this quick and dirty spreadsheet: <br></p><p><a class="qt-moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZHfmUTpvxZJSYigyBTCtNlEhG0t7g9mtF5NxR7kapfg/edit?usp=sharing">https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZHfmUTpvxZJSYigyBTCtNlEhG0t7g9mtF5NxR7kapfg/edit?usp=sharing</a><br></p><p>This may have changed given the pandemic - and will likely change
with PyConAU, which is a significant revenue contribution, not
running in 2022.<br></p></div></blockquote><div>Can you go back five years rather than 2 years?<br></div><div>Also, to further murky your point we must consider, as an association and not a profit driven business, does the fact that it makes a profit drive primacy? <br></div><div><br></div><div>LCA is the largest income AND expense. <br></div><div>In 2021 it produced ~$117k and cost $78k (50% being AV/network equipment). <br></div><div>So while it is (barely) <span style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);">the </span>largest contributor it is also the largest event by expense and still turns a significant profit. <br></div><div>That makes it a rather significant undertaking and one LA was created for, as you state further down. <br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p>But my point is valid - LCA does not have
financial primacy. It's a significant event - absolutely - it's
the largest single contributor to revenue.<br></p></div></blockquote><div>I find it hard to parse this statement. <br></div><div>Single largest contributor but not of primacy. <br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p>But it's far from the
only one. Does this ascribe it primacy? I don't think so. <br></p></div></blockquote><div>So what will OE be if it is replacing LCA as the largest financial contributor in 2023?<br></div><div>The <span style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);">single </span>largest contributor but not of primacy?<br></div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p><br></p><p>LA was founded to auspice LCA, certainly.<br></p></div></blockquote><div>Well that seems weird - it was founded for the LCA. <br></div><div>A patron is there to shepherd, guide and promote, but in this case it’s not of primacy. <br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p>But over time, like
with most organisations, it has adapted and diversified. Time and
again history shows us that survival equates to adaptability. <br></p><p><br></p></div></blockquote><div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);">Adapt or die huh?<br></div></div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br></div><div>So LA was founded to “auspice” the LCA and by this definition the LA council has failed as they did not “auspice” it for 2023 - they replaced it. <br></div><div>Nor have they “auspiced” LCA 2024 because they are too busy. <br></div><div>Seems like maybe the LA Council is there to run OE. <br></div><div><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);">So was LCA dying? <br></div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);">One could ask is LA dying instead. <br></div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p><br></p><p>4. Special General Meetings <br></p><p>The constitutional arrangements for SGMs are outlined in S(25) of
the constitution,<br></p><p>In practice, SGMs have been used to propose constitutional
amendments. <br></p></div></blockquote><div>And they can be used for other things. <br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p><br></p><p>I don't know what Linux Australia's current membership # are, and
the Secretary will be able to advise if requested.<br></p></div></blockquote><div>And they have 5 business days to reply. <br></div><div>But what if they don’t reply? <br></div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p>5. Updating Membership details <br></p><p>Marcus Herstik previously identified an issue with the Membership
login to <a class="qt-moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://linux.org.au">https://linux.org.au</a> - thank you Marcus for identifying
this. This has now been resolved (with many thanks to Neill Cox
and Steve Walsh). <br></p></div></blockquote><div>Thanks. <br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p>The Register of Members is dealt with in S(7) of the
Constitution, and the Members module within CiviCRM on the website
provides compliance with these requirements. <br></p><p><br></p></div></blockquote><div>Pity the Council does not operate by the rules except for when they are using it as a shield. <br></div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p><br></p><p>Regards, <br></p><p>Kathy Reid <br></p><p><br></p><p>[0] <a class="qt-moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/associations-and-co-operatives/associations/starting-an-association/model-constitution">https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/associations-and-co-operatives/associations/starting-an-association/model-constitution</a><br></p><p>[1] <a class="qt-moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://linux.org.au/about-us/values/">https://linux.org.au/about-us/values/</a><br></p><p>[2] <a class="qt-moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://linux.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/annual-report-2022-combined-hires.pdf">https://linux.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/annual-report-2022-combined-hires.pdf</a><br></p><p><br></p><p><br></p><div class="qt-moz-cite-prefix">On 21/10/2022 1:07 pm, Craige McWhirter
via linux-aus wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:20221021020718.y7b7lh2rm3tjx7aq@dionach"><pre class="qt-moz-quote-pre">On Thu, Oct 13, 2022 at 18:39:19 +1100, Tim Serong via linux-aus wrote:
<br></pre><blockquote type="cite"><pre class="qt-moz-quote-pre">On 13/10/22 10:29, Craige McWhirter wrote:
<br></pre><blockquote type="cite"><pre class="qt-moz-quote-pre">[...]
This no longer looks like a community event but rather a hollow vessel for
sponsors.
<br></pre></blockquote><pre class="qt-moz-quote-pre">Really Craige? REALLY? I honestly can't believe you'd even *think* LA
would be involved in something like that, let alone put it in print.
<br></pre></blockquote><pre class="qt-moz-quote-pre">Hey Tim :-)
"Looks" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in my quote above.
At the time of writing I had a single announcement and a website (that I went
through) both of which showed no trace of community involvement you'd expect
but here was conference that is LCA in format but uses a diferent name.
<br></pre><blockquote type="cite"><pre class="qt-moz-quote-pre">As for the rest of your comments, I'm pretty sure they're largely
addressed by Russell Stuart's subsequent email (thanks Russell, BTW).
<br></pre></blockquote><pre class="qt-moz-quote-pre">Yes, largely although not completely. Stuart's response was excellent. Thanks
Stuart :-)
As other commentators have mentioned, there are significant issues around
transparency, process and other things.
My current take is that some members of the council admirably stepped into the
"no LCA" breach with a line of thought that looks a like "what if LCA but named
OE?"
The LA constitution has no mission statement because it's assumed by the
community that we know what that mission is. I'll take these notes from the
website:
"facilitates internationally-renowned events including linux.conf.au -
Australasia’s grassroots Free and Open Source Software Conference."
"facilitates the organisation of linux.conf.au, a premier international Linux
conference, in a different Australasian city each year."
"undertakes to operate at all times in an open, transparent and democratic
manner<a class="qt-moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://linux.org.au/about-us/That'sprettymuchthereasonLAexists,it'sthe1jobwehave.Someofthecouncilhavetechnicallyfulfilledthatassumedmissionbutcalleditsomethingelse.ThisfeelsprettyclosetoSGMterritorytome.ThattheoverlapbetweenLCAandOEshouldhavebeenaddressedatthecouncillevelbutwasn'tisofconcerntome.">"
https://linux.org.au/about-us/
That's pretty much the reason LA exists, it's the 1 job we have.
Some of the council have technically fulfilled that assumed mission but called
it something else.
This feels pretty close to SGM territory to me.
That the overlap between LCA and OE should have been addressed at the council
level but wasn't is of concern to me. "</a>This is LCA, just call it that".
At the very least we should consider adopting a mission statement - as over the
last 6 years or so it's become an increasingly obvious the membership and
subsequent councils (including myself and councils I've served on) are not
entirely clear on LA's purpose.
That's why we find ourselves in this position.
A mission statement will at least laser our focus in on whether we are
"Linux Australia" or "Conference Australia".
A suggested mission statement could read something like:
"Linux Australia facilitates the internationally-renowned conference -
linux.conf.au - Australasia’s première grassroots Free and Open Source Software
Conference in an open, transparent and democratic manner.
Linux Australia also facilitates conferences that share the common values of Free
and Open Source Software"
Such a mission statement makes it clear what we do and what our priorities are:
LCA first, others as a nice bi-product of LCA's success.
It also makes it clear that "OE" should have been named LCA or rejected because
it is LCA by another name and as such would represent a conflict of interest.
--
Craige McWhirter
Signal: +61 4685 91819
Matrix: @craige:mcwhirter.io
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