<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Wingdings;
panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoListParagraph, li.MsoListParagraph, div.MsoListParagraph
{mso-style-priority:34;
margin-top:0cm;
margin-right:0cm;
margin-bottom:0cm;
margin-left:36.0pt;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
p.msonormal0, li.msonormal0, div.msonormal0
{mso-style-name:msonormal;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0cm;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0cm;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
span.im
{mso-style-name:im;}
span.hoenzb
{mso-style-name:hoenzb;}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
mso-fareast-language:EN-US;}
@page WordSection1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
/* List Definitions */
@list l0
{mso-list-id:66076509;
mso-list-type:hybrid;
mso-list-template-ids:1013342262 201916417 201916419 201916421 201916417 201916419 201916421 201916417 201916419 201916421;}
@list l0:level1
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l0:level2
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
@list l0:level3
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level4
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l0:level5
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
@list l0:level6
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level7
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l0:level8
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
@list l0:level9
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
ol
{margin-bottom:0cm;}
ul
{margin-bottom:0cm;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-AU link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>For my two cents, it’s important to evaluate:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Would the grant further the constitutional aim of Linux Australia Inc and if so, how?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Would the grant be in line with the policies as set by Linux Australia (usually by the committee in consultation with its members)?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Obviously, Linux Australia Inc is an organisation committed to gender equality, and one aware that in the Australian context it is not difficult to argue that there are structural, cultural and other reasons why women are not as represented as men even though women in Australia are, as expected, approximately 50% of the population [1].<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>In the sense that the grant could, as I understand it, it would be difficult to claim that a grant to “provide a safe computing environment running open source software in the community” is against the organisation’s constitutional aims and I don’t think anyone is arguing that.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Whether granting this grant on the basis that the association maintain a “pretense [sic] of men only” fits in with the policies seems the major issue. Given the summary of the research project from Beyond Blue (source URL in quote below) – i.e. that such an organisation might “help men regain a purpose in life, enhance self-esteem”, I don’t feel this is outside of the organisation’s goal – nor is it against its stated policies.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>That said, a lot of valid concerns (and other chatter) has been had over this matter and I am but one opinion amongst many esteemed friends.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>DSL<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>[1] Statistics, statisticians and liars!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> linux-aus [mailto:linux-aus-bounces@lists.linux.org.au] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Brent Wallis<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, 27 March 2017 4:21 AM<br><b>To:</b> Linux Australia Mailing List <linux-aus@lists.linux.org.au><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Linux-aus] Fwd: Re: Grant Application - A grant to Moe Menshed (about to start)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://www.beyondblue.org.au/about-us/research-projects/research-projects/men-s-sheds-in-australia">https://www.beyondblue.org.au/about-us/research-projects/research-projects/men-s-sheds-in-australia</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 4:21 PM, Russell Coker <<a href="mailto:russell@coker.com.au" target="_blank">russell@coker.com.au</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Robert asked me to forward this message to the list as he isn't aware of how<br>to use lists. I've removed the phone number, I'll provide it privately to<br>anyone who has a good reason to call him.<br><br>---------- Forwarded Message ----------<br><br>Subject: Re: [Linux-aus] Grant Application - A grant to Moe Menshed (about to<br>start)<br>Date: Sunday, 26 March 2017, 8:55:43 AM AEDT<br>From: Robert Palmer <<a href="mailto:rpalmer47@gmail.com">rpalmer47@gmail.com</a>><br>To: <a href="mailto:russell@coker.com.au">russell@coker.com.au</a><br><br>Dear Russell,<br> The reason that it is called a menshed is so that wives left at home do<br>not worry that their husband is seeing another woman. In Wagga Wagga<br>Menshed one or two women actually had official position and were an asset.<br>I find that a few women do improve the character of the club. In the same<br>way, having a computer room and section changes the character of the club<br>otherwise ex-tradesmen overwhelmingly predominate. I am not an<br>ex-tradesman and have an odd background for this organisation. I started<br>bee-keeping in Wagga Wagga Menshed; this was not in the character of the<br>organisation. It is, I think, rather important to keep the pretense of men<br>only but it is better if it is not the reality.<br> Talk to Collin Wooton on Tel ******** to get a more valid picture of<br>Moe Menshed values<br>Yours faithfully Robert Palmer<br><br><span class=im>On 25 March 2017 at 18:40, Russell Coker <<a href="mailto:russell@coker.com.au">russell@coker.com.au</a>> wrote:</span><br><br><span class=im>> Robert, we are having ongoing discussions about your application for a</span><br><span class=im>> menshed</span><br><span class=im>> grant. Robyn says that in Adelaide the mensheds don't exclude women. To</span><br><span class=im>> clarify the issue please briefly explain what you are doing to make your</span><br><span class=im>> menshed welcoming to women and non-binary people.</span><br><span class=im>></span><br><span class=im>> On Saturday, 25 March 2017 5:04:47 PM AEDT Noel Butler wrote:</span><br><span class=im>> > On 25/03/2017 07:10, Paul Wayper wrote:</span><br><span class=im>> > > On 24/03/17 16:36, Kathy Reid wrote:</span><br><span class=im>> > >> Let's called it a BIKE-shed, because this is exactly what this is.</span><br><span class=im>> > ></span><br><span class=im>> > > I disagree. I fully agree with Russell - if it's open to all people,</span><br><span class=im>> call</span><br><span class=im>> > > it a shed or a hackerspace or whatever. I would not like to see Linux</span><br><span class=im>> > > Australia--</span><br><span class=im>> > Mens Shed is their Australia wide legal name, they are everywhere, I've</span><br><span class=im>> > helped out a couple local ones myself when they needed some telco work</span><br><span class=im>> > done, so your argument on what they call themselves is pointless, they</span><br><span class=im>> > also aren't just a bunch of old blokes, there's teenagers as young as 16</span><br><span class=im>> > involved.</span><br><span class=im>> ></span><br><span class=im>> > > I would not like to see Linux Australia putting money toward something</span><br><span class=im>> > > where women were excluded</span><br><span class=im>> > So you objected a few years back when LA gave to the womens only thingy?</span><br><span class=im>> > Dont recall your name saying as much.</span><br><span class=im>> ></span><br><span class=im>> > All forms of gender/sex discrimination is wrong, but when you do, you</span><br><span class=im>> > cant play favorites, all sides are to be treated and considered without</span><br><span class=im>> > the "gender only" consideration - unless you want to appear before the</span><br><span class=im>> > federal court to explain your actions if a rejection is challenged :)</span><br><span class=im>></span><br><span class=im>> <a href="https://linux.conf.au/attend/code-of-conduct/" target="_blank">https://linux.conf.au/attend/code-of-conduct/</a></span><br><span class=im>></span><br><span class=im>> The CoC used for LA events refers to "unwarranted exclusion from</span><br><span class=im>> conference or</span><br><span class=im>> related events based on age, gender, sexual orientation". So having a</span><br><span class=im>> women-</span><br><span class=im>> only event to address problems with the exclusion of women in many areas of</span><br><span class=im>> technology is acceptable. But having a men-only technology event would be</span><br><span class=im>> unwarranted.</span><br><span class=im>></span><br><span class=im>> --</span><br><span class=im>> My Main Blog <a href="http://etbe.coker.com.au/" target="_blank">http://etbe.coker.com.au/</a></span><br><span class=im>> My Documents Blog <a href="http://doc.coker.com.au/" target="_blank">http://doc.coker.com.au/</a></span><br><span class=im>></span><br><span class=im>></span><br><br><br><span class=hoenzb><span style='color:#888888'>--</span></span><span style='color:#888888'><br><span class=hoenzb>Robert Palmer</span><br><br><span class=hoenzb>-----------------------------------------</span><br></span><span class=im>--</span><br><span class=im>My Main Blog <a href="http://etbe.coker.com.au/" target="_blank">http://etbe.coker.com.au/</a></span><br><span class=im>My Documents Blog <a href="http://doc.coker.com.au/" target="_blank">http://doc.coker.com.au/</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>linux-aus mailing list<br><a href="mailto:linux-aus@lists.linux.org.au">linux-aus@lists.linux.org.au</a><br><a href="http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus" target="_blank">http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html>