<div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Mar 25, 2017 at 6:40 PM, Russell Coker <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:russell@coker.com.au" target="_blank">russell@coker.com.au</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">Robert, we are having ongoing discussions about your application for a menshed<br>
grant. Robyn says that in Adelaide the mensheds don't exclude women. To<br>
clarify the issue please briefly explain what you are doing to make your<br>
menshed welcoming to women and non-binary people.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I don’t believe this request to Robert is warranted. </div><div><br></div><div>The section of the CoC[0] Russell quoted refers to “unwarranted exclusion from a conference or related events”.</div><div><br></div><div>Firstly: this is not a conference, nor a related event, so I’m not sure why this would apply.</div><div><br></div><div>Secondly: assuming that it does apply, the wording still refers to “unwarranted exclusion”. Robert has been asked to defend the “exclusion” part, but the “unwarranted” part seems to have been ignored. Beyond Blue commissioned a detailed study[2] on Mens Sheds in 2013 and found that they “are in an important position to be able to impact priority health group”; and that “Shed membership positively impacts on the experience of mental health and well-being.”</div><div><br></div><div>So: this is not a conference, nor a related event. Rather than exclusion, there is a focus particular priority health group, and that focus seems to have been shown to be warranted. </div><div><br></div><div>The Code of Conduct also asks all Linux Australia members to adopt the principles in LA Statement of Values[3], which says in part: “We value the creation, support and maintenance of community around open technologies.” To me this request seems like it could certainly lead to the “creation … of community around open technologies”. I’d like to see some more thought given to how that community could be supported and maintained; but given the small size of the grant request (and the lack of competition for the funds) I’m personally happy to see that answered after the community has been created.</div><div><br></div><div>I think the original grant request here is suboptimal - I would prefer to see us working together with ITShare or ComputerBank on a coordinated approach, where perhaps we provide funding, they provide hardware, and the Mens Shed provides a venue and training. I don’t know precisely what Robyn had in mind, but I commend her for stepping up and offering to work on a more effective way for the funding to be used. </div><div><br></div><div>In summary: I read this as a request to lend support to a proven non-exclusionary intervention targeting a priority health group, which has the potential to support the creation of a community around open technologies. Given the size of the request and the lack of competition, I support the grant - especially if Robyn or other volunteers are able to work on ways to make the funding more effective and to make it more likely that such a community is created.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>[0] The CoC quoted here was actually specific to LCA2017 and definitely not relevant here; but it’s based on the actual LA code of conduct[1], which does contain the same language.</div><div>[1] <a href="https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/blob/master/code_of_conduct.md">https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/blob/master/code_of_conduct.md</a></div><div>[2] <a href="https://www.beyondblue.org.au/docs/default-source/research-project-files/bw0208.pdf?sfvrsn=2">https://www.beyondblue.org.au/docs/default-source/research-project-files/bw0208.pdf?sfvrsn=2</a></div><div>[3] <a href="https://linux.org.au/values">https://linux.org.au/values</a></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><div class="gmail-h5"><br>
On Saturday, 25 March 2017 5:04:47 PM AEDT Noel Butler wrote:<br>
> On 25/03/2017 07:10, Paul Wayper wrote:<br>
> > On 24/03/17 16:36, Kathy Reid wrote:<br>
> >> Let's called it a BIKE-shed, because this is exactly what this is.<br>
> ><br>
> > I disagree. I fully agree with Russell - if it's open to all people, call<br>
> > it a shed or a hackerspace or whatever. I would not like to see Linux<br>
> > Australia--<br>
> Mens Shed is their Australia wide legal name, they are everywhere, I've<br>
> helped out a couple local ones myself when they needed some telco work<br>
> done, so your argument on what they call themselves is pointless, they<br>
> also aren't just a bunch of old blokes, there's teenagers as young as 16<br>
> involved.<br>
><br>
> > I would not like to see Linux Australia putting money toward something<br>
> > where women were excluded<br>
> So you objected a few years back when LA gave to the womens only thingy?<br>
> Dont recall your name saying as much.<br>
><br>
> All forms of gender/sex discrimination is wrong, but when you do, you<br>
> cant play favorites, all sides are to be treated and considered without<br>
> the "gender only" consideration - unless you want to appear before the<br>
> federal court to explain your actions if a rejection is challenged :)<br>
<br>
</div></div><a href="https://linux.conf.au/attend/code-of-conduct/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://linux.conf.au/attend/<wbr>code-of-conduct/</a><br>
<br>
The CoC used for LA events refers to "unwarranted exclusion from conference or<br>
related events based on age, gender, sexual orientation". So having a women-<br>
only event to address problems with the exclusion of women in many areas of<br>
technology is acceptable. But having a men-only technology event would be<br>
unwarranted.<br>
<span class="gmail-im gmail-HOEnZb"><br>
--<br>
My Main Blog <a href="http://etbe.coker.com.au/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://etbe.coker.com.au/</a><br>
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