<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div>> Luke, I'm sure this won't
meet your exceedingly narrow terms of reference for 'acceptable'
evidence, but for others playing along at home...<br><br></div><div>The way Paul wrote his message, he justified it with "This, and much much worse, has happened to women in IT."<br></div><div>That is wrong. Morally incorrect.<br>
</div><div><br>It's as wrong as claiming that racism against Muslims is okay in Germany because "This and much much worse happened to Jews in Germany".<br><br> <b>It just doesn't cut it.</b><br><br></div>
</div>> Yes, I know. You call BS on 'anecdotal evidence'.<br><br><br>Feminism<i><u><b> LOVES </b></u></i>anecdotal evidence, it allows them to easily and simply make things that happen barely ever to a small subset of a handful of women
sound like they happen all the time to all women.<br><br>It's good for the <i>victim</i> image, the one that feminists love to use when they're not playing the empowered card.<br></div><div><br>If
you go read the<a href="http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/feminism"> feminism tag</a> on tumblr and the like and spend a good
hour there, you'd start to think that any woman who steps outside for
even half a second will get assaulted, whistled at and harassed all while being denied an abortion & contraceptive whilst being oppressed by some random straight white man. <br><br><a href="https://gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/85a91f2b9c2a93b99dd19621d7e0e33a/tumblr_mff0i7zxYS1rtcur5o1_500.jpg"><span id="goog_1211635572"></span><span id="goog_1211635573"></span>Which ends up with weird things like this happening;</a> Because<i> maybe</i> those bad things just doesn't happen as often as they like to say.<br>
</div><div><br><div><div><div>
<div class="gmail_extra">> I note from previous rants that you're also not too keen on engaging
with actual research papers with actual data in them, preferring to
dismiss them as being biased (without bothering to present countering
evidence) because they support the argument being made, to wit:<br><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">I was linked to FinallyFeminism and GeekWikia. These are not "actual research papers with actual data in them" these are blogs/wikis written by Feminists. Not once in this entire two threads have i been linked to an actual research paper. <br>
<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><i>Research Paper <br>Academic publishing describes the subfield of publishing which
distributes academic research and scholarship. Most academic work is
published in journal article, book or thesis form.</i><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br>> I note from previous rants <br><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">Previous rants? In these two mailing list threads or somewhere else?<br>
<br>>Yes, because everyone cites information that contradicts the argument
they're making in the hope of proving their case, right? *eyeroll*<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br>It's not information, you don't cite blog and wiki posts, you cite what they cite, the research (if those websites do cite research at all). If somebody pointed me to some real data i'd accept it, not some anecdotal post on a feminist blog made just for ad revenue.<span><font color="#888888"> (looking at you, Jezebel.)<br>
<br></font></span></div><div class="gmail_extra"><span><font color="#888888">I also want to note that not one result in the first 5 pages was about a woman being harassed on a Mailing List.<br><br>> So for those playing along at home<br>
<br>Score: 0.</font></span><br><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">However, I don't think Linux-Aus is the best place for this discussion about feminism to continue. <br></div><div class="gmail_extra">Regards,<br></div>
<div class="gmail_extra">Luke</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 12:28 AM, Jessica Smith <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jessica@itgrrl.com" target="_blank">jessica@itgrrl.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 9:20 PM, Luke Martinez <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:me@luke.asia" target="_blank">me@luke.asia</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div>>This, and much much worse, has happened<br>
to women in IT. <br><br></div>Show me one instance of a woman being publicly shamed because she has a different opinion about policy on a IT Mailing List. Most mailing lists are public & have records so i'm sure you can show me... oh.. you can't?<br>
<br></div>This faux anecdotal evidence BS is just that, BS. THIS is what has happened, it's not justifiable just because you can come up with some fairyland situation in which a woman is publicly shamed for having a different opinion on a policy.<br>
<br></div>Seriously. "oh but in my imagination im SUUUUUREEE its happened to women toooo" is horrible justifcation.<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br><br></div></div><div>Luke, I'm sure this won't meet your exceedingly narrow terms of reference for 'acceptable' evidence, but for others playing along at home...<br>
<br><a href="http://lmgtfy.com/?q=harassment+of+women+in+computing" target="_blank">http://lmgtfy.com/?q=harassment+of+women+in+computing</a><br><br></div><div>As before, a few minutes on your search engine of choice will yield many reports of incidents that demonstrate that yes, indeed, it is exceedingly common for women to be targeted routinely with extreme responses for the multiple crimes of being female, having opinions, and daring to share them online.<br>
<br></div><div>Yes, I know. You call BS on 'anecdotal evidence'. I note from previous rants that you're also not too keen on engaging with actual research papers with actual data in them, preferring to dismiss them as being biased (without bothering to present countering evidence) because they support the argument being made, to wit:<div>
<br>
<br><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote">the closest thing to evidence that was being cited was the _clearly_
biased finallyfeminism and geek feminism wikia. (Yea... of course
websites that are pro-your-opinion are going to say things that are
pro-your-opinion... That's a given.)</blockquote><br></div>Yes, because everyone cites information that contradicts the argument they're making in the hope of proving their case, right? *eyeroll*<span><font color="#888888"><br>
</font></span></div><span><font color="#888888"><div><br></div>
<div><br></div></font></span><div><span><font color="#888888">Jessica<br></font></span><br></div><div>P.S. Just writing this and preparing to hit send, I have a knot in my stomach in anticipation of the possibility of a dumping of disproportionate vitriol in response. In this instance I choose to "feel the fear and do it anyway", because all too often silencing tactics work. If you've never had that anxiety-making feeling when about to fire off a fairly innocuous email, consider yourself lucky. (Or, as those pesky feminists would say, "privileged".) ;-)<br>
<br><br></div></div></div></div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div style="text-align:center"><br></div><div style="text-align:center">Luke Martinez<br><font size="1">me@luke<font size="1">.asia</font></font></div>
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