<div dir="ltr">Hi Paul,<div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 11:02 AM, Paul Gear <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:paul@gear.dyndns.org" target="_blank">paul@gear.dyndns.org</a>></span> wrote:</div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="im"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">I think this thread has already more than sufficiently demonstrated that</span><br>
</div>
not only trolls have a say in LCA, and I'm sure the member survey that<br>
was recently released will indicate the same.<br>
<br>
In the meantime, I appeal to everyone: stop feeding the trolls. They<br>
require oxygen to survive; starve them of this. David is sitting back<br>
right now laughing that we were all silly enough to take the bait.<br>
Don't give him that satisfaction.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Actually, I think this has turned into a mostly-productive discussion. I'm heartened to see support from listmembers of the non-female persuasion. Just knowing that there are people within a group who are in favour of promoting inclusiveness goes a long way towards bringing about that inclusiveness.</div>
<div><br></div><div>And I'm not convinced that labelling David a troll is even appropriate. Trolls state positions that they don't believe just for the lulz. If someone's posting opinions that they actually hold (even if they try to present it as a "devil's advocate" position), they're not trolling, they're stating their beliefs. Calling that trolling is both incorrect and giving an undeserved free pass.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Regardless of David's true intentions in lobbing this grenade onto the list, the outcome is rapidly becoming a positive one for those who disagree with his stated position. The majority of posts have been supporting of promoting inclusiveness, and being supporting of ways in which we can address imbalance. Quite a few men have chimed in with supporting posts. A few have dropped their own outrage onto the list - but that's also useful: it helps me to identify who I don't really want to hang out with at tech events. :-)</div>
<div><br></div><div>If David really was trolling, he's not engendered much in the way of outraged backlash or rage-quitting. Replies have been for the most part overwhelmingly calm and considered.</div><div><br></div>
<div>If David's intention was actually to spark off a useful debate of the dramatic under-representation of women in tech fields with a clumsy, ham-fisted devil's advocate post, then: mission accomplished.</div><div>
<br></div><div>Either way, I'm calling it a win.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">P.S. I say this as someone not entirely unsympathetic to the views<br>
presumably held by the trolls (or a more moderate version thereof). But<br>
trolling is the wrong way to go about it.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>I appreciate that you're prepared to (sort-of) state your own vested interest in shutting down the discussion. It helps people to make assessments about whether that's a good thing or not.</div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div><br></div><div>Jessica</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div>