<html><head></head><body><p dir="ltr">Honestly this isn't something that I would have posted even though it did have at the very top a tongue in cheek claim it's a sensitive topic regardless of gender. </p>
<p dir="ltr">Ok breathe! now let's just leave it alone and should more of this crap start appearing on this list I too would be unsubscribing as I'm not interested in this type of crap! </p>
<p dir="ltr">Just my 2 cents worth and I won't be adding to this any further... </p>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">linux-aus-request@lists.linux.org.au wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<pre class="k9mail">Send linux-aus mailing list submissions to<br /> linux-aus@lists.linux.org.au<br /><br />To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br /> <a href="http://lists.linux.org.au/listinfo/linux-aus">http://lists.linux.org.au/listinfo/linux-aus</a><br />or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br /> linux-aus-request@lists.linux.org.au<br /><br />You can reach the person managing the list at<br /> linux-aus-owner@lists.linux.org.au<br /><br />When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br />than "Re: Contents of linux-aus digest..."<br /></pre><p style="margin-top: 2.5em; margin-bottom: 1em; border-bottom: 1px solid #000"></p><pre class="k9mail">Today's Topics:<br /><br /> 1. Special support for women (David Newall)<br /> 2. Re: Special support for women (Donna Benjamin)<br /> 3. Re: Special support for women (Donna Benjamin)<br /> 4. Re: Special support for women (Luke Martinez)<br /> 5. Re: Special
support for women (Luke Martinez)<br /></pre><p style="margin-top: 2.5em; margin-bottom: 1em; border-bottom: 1px solid #000"></p><table style="border: 0"><tbody><tr><th style="text-align: left; vertical-align: top;">From:</th><td>David Newall <davidn davidnewall.com="davidnewall.com"></davidn></td></tr><tr><th style="text-align: left; vertical-align: top;">To:</th><td>linux-aus <linux-aus lists.linux.org.au="lists.linux.org.au"></linux-aus></td></tr><tr><th style="text-align: left; vertical-align: top;">Sent:</th><td>Tue Oct 29 23:21:44 GMT+11:00 2013</td></tr><tr><th style="text-align: left; vertical-align: top;">Subject:</th><td>[Linux-aus] Special support for women</td></tr></tbody></table><pre class="k9mail">(:-P (tongue in cheek)<br /><br />Apparently we need special programmes to address an imbalance between <br />the sexes; in politics, employment, management and elsewhere, this is <br />widely accepted as appropriate. Linux Australia is not immune to this; <br />we give
opportunities and support to females. This puts an elephant in <br />the corner: women gain opportunities at the expense of more capable (or <br />more needy) men. This undermines their credibility; it raises reasonable <br />doubts about their competence. Are they there from merit or merely to <br />make up the numbers?<br /><br />Maggie Thatcher was never PM to improve numbers; she was destined to be <br />leader of UK; she earned the role. Affirmative action needed no part in <br />her glory. She was the best candidate. Yet I think she must have <br />struggled to overcome doubt. (Arguably she was better because of the <br />doubt, but that's for another day.)<br /><br />I say merit is blind to sex; it shines from inner strength. I say <br />special programmes damage the interests they purport to serve. How can <br />someone be taken seriously if there was obligation to give a women the <br />place? We do them naught but disservice by gifting favours that are <br
/>intrinsically merited. We do naught but disservice by filling seats <br />with lesser competence.<br /><br />We see ourselves as a meritocracy; for sake of honesty and transparency, <br />our special programmes for women should candidly admit patronage of <br />incompetence over political correctness. Let's cancel our "women in IT" <br />programmes and replace them with programmes that reward "incompetent <br />women in IT," or at least to widen eligibility to include hamsters and <br />fish. That way, competent women, of which we have plenty, can leave no <br />doubt that they won prestige merely on shining ability.<br /><br />Chew, swallow, digest.<br /><br /><br /></pre><p style="margin-top: 2.5em; margin-bottom: 1em; border-bottom: 1px solid #000"></p><table style="border: 0"><tbody><tr><th style="text-align: left; vertical-align: top;">From:</th><td>Donna Benjamin <donna kattekrab.net="kattekrab.net"></donna></td></tr><tr><th style="text-align: left; vertical-align:
top;">To:</th><td>David Newall <davidn davidnewall.com="davidnewall.com">, linux-aus <linux-aus lists.linux.org.au="lists.linux.org.au"></linux-aus></davidn></td></tr><tr><th style="text-align: left; vertical-align: top;">Sent:</th><td>Wed Oct 30 07:27:25 GMT+11:00 2013</td></tr><tr><th style="text-align: left; vertical-align: top;">Subject:</th><td>Re: [Linux-aus] Special support for women</td></tr></tbody></table>Wow.<br />
<br />
I'd unsubscribed from the LA list and only recently rejoined.<br />
<br />
I'm kinda stunned to read this, and tempted just to unsubscribe again but also ask how I actually resign my membership.<br />
<br />
Except... David, I suspect your view is extreme and not widely held.<br />
<br />
Affirmative action in communities that are unbalanced attempts to address the systemic issues that lead to that imbalance.<br />
<br />
You seem to assume women are inferior and are getting special treatment.<br />
<br />
Special treatment like being paid less? Or not hired in case she becomes pregnant? Or being assumed to be at a meetup or conference as someone's girlfriend...<br />
<br />
Or... I don't know.<br />
<br />
I probably just shouldn't reply.<br />
<br />
But this pile of crap shouldn't pass unchecked either.<br /><br /><div class="gmail_quote">David Newall <davidn@davidnewall.com> wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<pre class="k9mail">(:-P (tongue in cheek)<br /><br />Apparently we need special programmes to address an imbalance between <br />the sexes; in politics, employment, management and elsewhere, this is <br />widely accepted as appropriate. Linux Australia is not immune to this; <br />we give opportunities and support to females. This puts an elephant in <br />the corner: women gain opportunities at the expense of more capable (or <br />more needy) men. This undermines their credibility; it raises reasonable <br />doubts about their competence. Are they there from merit or merely to <br />make up the numbers?<br /><br />Maggie Thatcher was never PM to improve numbers; she was destined to be <br />leader of UK; she earned the role. Affirmative action needed no part in <br />her glory. She was the best candidate. Yet I think she must have <br />struggled to overcome doubt. (Arguably she was better because of the <br />doubt, but that's for another day.)<br /><br />I say m
erit is
blind to sex; it shines from inner strength. I say <br />special programmes damage the interests they purport to serve. How can <br />someone be taken seriously if there was obligation to give a women the <br />place? We do them naught but disservice by gifting favours that are <br />intrinsically merited. We do naught but disservice by filling seats <br />with lesser competence.<br /><br />We see ourselves as a meritocracy; for sake of honesty and transparency, <br />our special programmes for women should candidly admit patronage of <br />incompetence over political correctness. Let's cancel our "women in IT" <br />programmes and replace them with programmes that reward "incompetent <br />women in IT," or at least to widen eligibility to include hamsters and <br />fish. That way, competent women, of which we have plenty, can leave no <br />doubt that they won prestige merely on shining ability.<br /><br />Chew, swallow, digest.<br /><br /><hr /><br />linux-aus mailing
list<br />linux-aus@lists.linux.org.au<br /><a href="http://lists.linux.org.au/listinfo/linux-aus">http://lists.linux.org.au/listinfo/linux-aus</a><br /></pre></blockquote></div><br /></blockquote></div><br>
-- <br>
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