True - that is a good point. ;)<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2009/8/27 <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:linux-aus-request@lists.linux.org.au">linux-aus-request@lists.linux.org.au</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
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<br>Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: Drupal story on Computerworld (Jeremy Visser)<br>
2. Re: [Osia-discuss] Tax office - Open Source policy<br>
(Stuart Guthrie)<br>
3. Re: Drupal story on Computerworld (Jeremy Visser)<br>
4. Re: Drupal story on Computerworld (Bret Busby)<br>
5. Re: [Osia-discuss] Tax office - Open Source policy (Daniel Mons)<br>
6. Re: Drupal story on Computerworld (Dahna McConnachie)<br>
7. Re: Drupal story on Computerworld (Jonathan Oxer)<br>
<br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Jeremy Visser <<a href="mailto:jeremy@visser.name">jeremy@visser.name</a>><br>To: Dahna McConnachie <<a href="mailto:dahna.mcconnachie@gmail.com">dahna.mcconnachie@gmail.com</a>><br>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 21:11:00 +1000<br>Subject: Re: [Linux-aus] Drupal story on Computerworld<br>Just one comment: you spelled WordPress as "Wordpress", not "WordPress".<br>
<br>
Not sure if you have the opportunity to correct the article after it is<br>
published, but the WordPress folks would really appreciate you doing so,<br>
as they are quite pedantic about the spelling. :)<br>
<br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Stuart Guthrie <<a href="mailto:stuart@polonious.com.au">stuart@polonious.com.au</a>><br>To: Open Source Industry Australia <<a href="mailto:osia-discuss@lists.osia.net.au">osia-discuss@lists.osia.net.au</a>>, <a href="mailto:linux-aus@lists.linux.org.au">linux-aus@lists.linux.org.au</a><br>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 21:19:32 +1000 (EST)<br>Subject: Re: [Linux-aus] [Osia-discuss] Tax office - Open Source policy<br><div><div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Hi Ron<br><br>Thanks for including the list on this, I think there is a better response than this one on it's way from the committee but this is just my two cents.<br>
<br>Obviously it would be better for the ATO to use an open and published standard such as ODF (Open Document Format). There are many products that support this standard and it can be read and written on all major operating systems including Linux, OSX, OpenSolaris and Windows.<br>
<br>Any customer needing access to read/write with the tax office can download at least one implementation of this standard for free from <a href="http://www.openoffice.org" target="_blank">http://www.openoffice.org</a>.<br>
<br>The issue of long-term viability of the documents is a point that also should be considered. There are numerous articles including this:<br><br><a href="http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documents/selecting_file_formats.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documents/selecting_file_formats.pdf</a><br>
<a href="http://www.interpares.org/display_file.cfm?doc=ip2_file_formats%28complete%29.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.interpares.org/display_file.cfm?doc=ip2_file_formats(complete).pdf</a><br><br>A whole chunk from Aust. Fed Govt National Library:<br>
<br><a href="http://www.nla.gov.au/padi/topics/612.html" target="_blank">http://www.nla.gov.au/padi/topics/612.html</a><br><br>Most of the articles from these institutions outline the importance of open, defined standards to make long term storage possible. I would have thought that this would be an important consideration for communications with the tax office.<br>
<br>Example: How would the ATO go retrieving and reading a document in AMIPRO or WORD PERFECT 2.0 format? Neither I believe had open defined standards. I'm imagining the same problem in 10 years for MS office from the mid-90's. The software would not be around and it would get increasingly hard to read.<br>
<br>This may not cut it however. The second best (but still bad) compromise is that everyone uses the halfway house of PDF to communicate. In 99.9% of all cases, the communication is one-way and there is not expected to be editing of the document at the other end. PDF is mostly documented and many tools can read/write it's formats. While it's not as good as ODF, it's a sort of 'standard' with many tools able to read/write it.<br>
<br>I think it's probably an acceptable compromise. For now.<br><br>Finally, the option of just using WORD is unacceptable to low income people unless the government wants to promote software piracy. No person should be forced to break the law because they are required to respond to the ATO using a product that they cannot afford and therefore must steal. Surely an open, free and ubiquitous alternative is preferrable.<br>
<br>HTH<br><br><br>Stuart<br><br>----- "Ron Skeoch" <<a href="mailto:skeoro@muli.com.au" target="_blank">skeoro@muli.com.au</a>> wrote:
<br>> Hi all<br>> As a member of Tax office SDGC (Software developers Consultative Group).<br>> I have been pushing to ensure that all tax office communications<br>> (particularly web site and technical documentation) is compliant with W3C<br>
> Muli are working to ensure that SBR (Standard Business Reporting)<br>> is able to be implemented using Open Platforms & tools.<br>> <br>> There has been a movement to revert to allowing Microsoft word<br>
> as an allowable communication medium.<br>> <br>> I have requested this position be reversed.<br>> As a result of discussions the Tax office has published a policy,<br>> <br>> > <a href="http://www.ato.gov.au/corporate/content.asp?doc=/content/48886.htm" target="_blank">http://www.ato.gov.au/corporate/content.asp?doc=/content/48886.htm</a><br>
> This policy is to be discussed at our next meeting<br>> Any thoughts and/or feedback would be gratefully received<br>> so I can present a stronger well rounded view.<br>> <br>> Regards<br>> <br>> <br>
<br>-- <br>Best regards<br><br>Stuart Guthrie<br>Director<br>Polonious Pty Ltd<br>(w) <a href="http://www.polonious.com.au" target="_blank">http://www.polonious.com.au</a><br>(m) 0403 470 123<br>Polonious Support Numbers:<br>
Sydney: +61-2-9007-9842<br>Chicago: +1-312-239-0639<br>Fax: +61-2-9475-0843<br><br>This above all: to thine ownself be true,<br>And it must follow, as the night the day,<br>Thou canst not then be false to any man.<br>
</div></div><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Jeremy Visser <<a href="mailto:jeremy@visser.name">jeremy@visser.name</a>><br>To: Bret Busby <<a href="mailto:bret@busby.net">bret@busby.net</a>><br>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 21:33:53 +1000<br>Subject: Re: [Linux-aus] Drupal story on Computerworld<br>On Tue, 2009-08-25 at 17:42 +0800, Bret Busby wrote:<br>
> With this discussion of Drupal, as Ekiga is apparently in the process<br>
> of switching to Drupal, does anyone have any idea as to how the switch<br>
> may affect Ekiga?<br>
<br>
Bret, you also wrote the following on the ekiga-list mailing list on the<br>
23rd of August. There were actually three replies to your post, but you<br>
must have missed them.<br>
<br>
On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:16:58 +0800, Bret Busby wrote:<br>
> What is drupal?<br>
><br>
> Is it software that will replace ekiga?<br>
><br>
> Does it mean that ekiga is to come to an end?<br>
<br>
Drupal is simply a content management system (CMS), that is, a web<br>
application (or basically a bunch of PHP scripts) that they can install<br>
on their site to allow them to better manage their website.<br>
<br>
Ref: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/cnpepe" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/cnpepe</a> (You'll see that Drupal is search result<br>
#4.)<br>
<br>
Drupal is what will run the Ekiga.net website. It is completely<br>
unrelated to the Ekiga software itself.<br>
<br>
What you said is akin to saying "Dairy Farmers is upgrading their<br>
website. I wonder if the milk will taste any different!"<br>
<br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Bret Busby <<a href="mailto:bret@busby.net">bret@busby.net</a>><br>To: Linux Australia List <<a href="mailto:linux-aus@lists.linux.org.au">linux-aus@lists.linux.org.au</a>><br>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 23:45:14 +0800 (WST)<br>Subject: Re: [Linux-aus] Drupal story on Computerworld<br>On Wed, 26 Aug 2009, Jeremy Visser wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 21:33:53 +1000<br>
From: Jeremy Visser <<a href="mailto:jeremy@visser.name" target="_blank">jeremy@visser.name</a>><br>
To: Bret Busby <<a href="mailto:bret@busby.net" target="_blank">bret@busby.net</a>><br>
Cc: Linux Australia List <<a href="mailto:linux-aus@lists.linux.org.au" target="_blank">linux-aus@lists.linux.org.au</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Linux-aus] Drupal story on Computerworld<br>
<br>
On Tue, 2009-08-25 at 17:42 +0800, Bret Busby wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
With this discussion of Drupal, as Ekiga is apparently in the process<br>
of switching to Drupal, does anyone have any idea as to how the switch<br>
may affect Ekiga?<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Bret, you also wrote the following on the ekiga-list mailing list on the<br>
23rd of August. There were actually three replies to your post, but you<br>
must have missed them.<br>
<br>
On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:16:58 +0800, Bret Busby wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
What is drupal?<br>
<br>
Is it software that will replace ekiga?<br>
<br>
Does it mean that ekiga is to come to an end?<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Drupal is simply a content management system (CMS), that is, a web<br>
application (or basically a bunch of PHP scripts) that they can install<br>
on their site to allow them to better manage their website.<br>
<br>
Ref: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/cnpepe" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/cnpepe</a> (You'll see that Drupal is search result<br>
#4.)<br>
<br>
Drupal is what will run the Ekiga.net website. It is completely<br>
unrelated to the Ekiga software itself.<br>
<br>
What you said is akin to saying "Dairy Farmers is upgrading their<br>
website. I wonder if the milk will taste any different!"<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I understood, from the response on the Ekiga mailing list, that Drupal was to be replacing the GUI of Ekiga; that it would be the new interface for the software, rather than the interface on the website the provides the information about the software.<br>
<br>
The question that I asked, is significantly different to how you construed it.<br>
<br>
It is easy to ridicule people for the sake of ridiculing them, rather than seeking to understand the problem, and trying thence to come up with a helpful and constructive solution.<br>
<br>
"Damnant quod non intelligunt" - "They condemn what they do not understand".<br>
<br>
--<br>
Bret Busby<br>
Armadale<br>
West Australia<br>
..............<br>
<br>
"So once you do know what the question actually is,<br>
you'll know what the answer means."<br>
- Deep Thought,<br>
Chapter 28 of Book 1 of<br>
"The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:<br>
A Trilogy In Four Parts",<br>
written by Douglas Adams,<br>
published by Pan Books, 1992<br>
<br>
....................................................<br>
<br>
<br>
<br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Daniel Mons <<a href="mailto:daniel.mons@iinet.net.au">daniel.mons@iinet.net.au</a>><br>To: Stuart Guthrie <<a href="mailto:stuart@polonious.com.au">stuart@polonious.com.au</a>><br>
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 08:36:50 +1000<br>Subject: Re: [Linux-aus] [Osia-discuss] Tax office - Open Source policy<br>Is there anything wrong with plain text? The NSA still seem to think<br>
it's good enough for them. Or is it necessary for people to be able to<br>
choose unreadable fonts and underline things in order to do their job?<br>
<br>
-Dan<br>
<br>
PS: This email was sent in plain text. "Client software" available for<br>
just about anything that takes voltage.<br>
<br>
PPS: I've not had much sleep. Excuse the sarcasm.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Stuart Guthrie wrote:<br>
> Obviously it would be better for the ATO to use an open and published<br>
> standard such as ODF (Open Document Format). There are many products<br>
> that support this standard and it can be read and written on all major<br>
> operating systems including Linux, OSX, OpenSolaris and Windows.<br>
><br>
> ----- "Ron Skeoch" <<a href="mailto:skeoro@muli.com.au">skeoro@muli.com.au</a>> wrote:<br>
>> There has been a movement to revert to allowing Microsoft word<br>
>> as an allowable communication medium.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Dahna McConnachie <<a href="mailto:dahna.mcconnachie@gmail.com">dahna.mcconnachie@gmail.com</a>><br>To: Jeremy Visser <<a href="mailto:jeremy@visser.name">jeremy@visser.name</a>><br>
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 09:12:54 +1000<br>Subject: Re: [Linux-aus] Drupal story on Computerworld<br>Thanks for your comment Jeremy. I will pass it on and see if Computerworld want to change it. I think that it used to be their house style to avoid branding influenced typography, but perhaps that policy has changed. <br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2009/8/26 Jeremy Visser <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jeremy@visser.name" target="_blank">jeremy@visser.name</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Just one comment: you spelled WordPress as "Wordpress", not "WordPress".<br>
<br>
Not sure if you have the opportunity to correct the article after it is<br>
published, but the WordPress folks would really appreciate you doing so,<br>
as they are quite pedantic about the spelling. :)<br>
</blockquote></div><br>
<br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Jonathan Oxer <<a href="mailto:jon@ivt.com.au">jon@ivt.com.au</a>><br>To: linux-aus <<a href="mailto:linux-aus@lists.linux.org.au">linux-aus@lists.linux.org.au</a>><br>
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 09:32:20 +1000<br>Subject: Re: [Linux-aus] Drupal story on Computerworld<br>On Thu, 2009-08-27 at 09:12 +1000, Dahna McConnachie wrote:<br>
> Thanks for your comment Jeremy. I will pass it on and see if<br>
> Computerworld want to change it. I think that it used to be their<br>
> house style to avoid branding influenced typography, but perhaps that<br>
> policy has changed.<br>
<br>
So I assume then that whenever Computerworld report on the iPhone they<br>
have to spell it as Iphone?<br>
<br>
Cheers :-)<br>
--<br>
Jonathan Oxer<br>
Ph +61 4 3851 6600<br>
Geek My Ride! <<a href="http://www.geekmyride.org/" target="_blank">http://www.geekmyride.org/</a>><br>
<br>
<br>
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