[Linux-aus] Grant Application - A grant to Moe Menshed (about to start)

[Paul Wayper]

On 25/03/17 18:04, Noel Butler wrote:
> On 25/03/2017 07:10, Paul Wayper wrote:
> 
>> On 24/03/17 16:36, Kathy Reid wrote:
>>> Let's called it a BIKE-shed, because this is exactly what this is.
>>
>> I disagree.  I fully agree with Russell - if it's open to all people, call it
>> a shed or a hackerspace or whatever.  I would not like to see Linux Australia--
>>
>>
>>
> Mens Shed is their Australia wide legal name, they are everywhere, I've helped
> out a couple local ones myself when they needed some telco work done, so your
> argument on what they call themselves is pointless, they also aren't just a
> bunch of old blokes, there's teenagers as young as 16 involved.
> 
> 
>> I would not like to see Linux Australia putting money toward something where
>> women were excluded
>>
> So you objected a few years back when LA gave to the womens only thingy? Dont
> recall your name saying as much.

I think you need to learn the difference between positive and negative
discrimination.

> All forms of gender/sex discrimination is wrong, but when you do, you cant
> play favorites, all sides are to be treated and considered without the "gender
> only" consideration - unless you want to appear  before the federal court to
> explain your actions if a rejection is challenged :)

Oh, please, stop the amateur dramatics.

I'm a member of the ACT Woodcraft Guild.  This is a club that's about 80% male
membership (at a guess).  Why?  Because historically men were the ones given
access to training in woodworking (at school), and so were given more chance
to develop an interest in woodworking.  We don't have 'men' in the title, and
the Guild charter says nothing about gender.  But we have a bias toward men
because that's the history of manual crafts.

We now have about 40% or more women coming along to the wood turning, thanks
to a couple of dedicated women who have been keen and enthusiastic and
bringing their friends along.  We're continuing to see more women of all ages
come along.  It's also about 70% retiree membership, and that's slowly being
pushed down as the shed is available on more evenings and weekends for more
activities (as we expand).

The ACTWG hasn't done any "positive discrimination" sessions where the shed is
set aside for women and men are asked to not attend those sessions.  But I've
been in other woodcraft groups and I've seen those sessions, and they're
great.  I'd fully encourage those sessions - not least because there are still
some misogynist guys around in the ACTWG whose behaviour is never actionable
but is sometimes enough to put women off.

OTOH nearby the ACTWG is the Woden Men's Shed.  A friend has been to it, and
said it's basically 100% retired old white men complaining about how they're
being left behind, making sexist jokes, and not doing much.

Until we get to the stage where sexist behaviour is a thing of the past, I'm
prepared to see positive discrimination for people who aren't given a fair go.

So as Russell has said, I'd like at least to hear from the Moe Menshed group
itself on its policy around women members.  I don't care what their current
membership proportions are, I'm only interested in their policy.

HTH,

Paul