From mithro at mithis.com  Sun Feb  1 02:05:16 2015
From: mithro at mithis.com (Tim Ansell)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2015 02:05:16 +1100
Subject: [Linux-aus] MemberDB is a great short term solution,
 but we need a broader rethink
In-Reply-To: <8761braapc.fsf@flamingspork.com>
References: <54B86BDC.4090801@kathyreid.id.au>
 <8761braapc.fsf@flamingspork.com>
Message-ID: <CAHLUNMzREnZkhBsHM7FnmuuvqGSYW0tcQyyCNfieiYr4uhq3xg@mail.gmail.com>

Reusing existing FOSS software sounds like a great idea. I think MemberDB
has shown LA doesn't really have the current manpower to maintain our own
solution (and that manpower is probably better spent on improving other
areas anyway). With something like CiviCRM we get a bunch of new useful
features without having to dedicate the extra effort to actually writing
them. It also has the added benefit that If we added "online preferential
voting" to something like CiviCRM, then others can start using our more
enlightened form of voting too :)

Tim 'mithro' Ansell



On 28 January 2015 at 13:41, Stewart Smith <stewart at flamingspork.com> wrote:

> Kathy Reid <kathy at kathyreid.id.au> writes:
> > First of all, many thanks to Mikal for starting this conversation, and
> > to those who've volunteered to make MemberDB better.
> >
> > While this is a great short term solution, I think we should (in
> > parallel) discuss and debate a MemberDB replacement, likely something
> > like CiviCRM. This is a bit more work and effort, but I think would have
> > good long term returns, and address the pressing need for targeted
> > member communications.
>
> The big thing that was never covered by any other system was online
> preferential voting.
>
> --
> Stewart Smith
>
> _______________________________________________
> linux-aus mailing list
> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au
> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus
>
>
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From mithro at mithis.com  Sun Feb  1 02:11:21 2015
From: mithro at mithis.com (Tim Ansell)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2015 02:11:21 +1100
Subject: [Linux-aus] MemberDB is a great short term solution,
 but we need a broader rethink
In-Reply-To: <87386vaa7g.fsf@flamingspork.com>
References: <54B86BDC.4090801@kathyreid.id.au>
 <CADpi2oLP9kR8tVaiYY8VJCrEkvv_J3S5eC+e8oyBbdg44mRVQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <87386vaa7g.fsf@flamingspork.com>
Message-ID: <CAHLUNMzUvwgZdoGU0BpbBV5m9V1ARsVh6GDPPZNJXf37JonHWg@mail.gmail.com>

As Stewart mentioned, rewriting from scratch takes a lot of extra effort
and I don't think LA has the resources for that type of task. There is a
lot more to a conference management system then it first seems like. Plus
anything which deals with billing gets complicated fast (writing a billing
system seems to be a right of passage for become a real "grumpy old
programmer" :).

If people really do want to replace ZooKeepr (which I'm not sure is
*actually* the case) its worth checking out Symposion used by PyCon US and
other conferences (http://eldarion.com/symposion/) and contributing to
that. The big problem with Symposion is that it has been highly North
America focused and hence probably missing things needed by an Australian
conference.

Tim 'mithro' Ansell


On 28 January 2015 at 13:52, Stewart Smith <stewart at flamingspork.com> wrote:

> Michael Cordover <la at mjec.net> writes:
> > On 16 January 2015 at 14:39, Kathy Reid <kathy at kathyreid.id.au> wrote:
> >> While this is a great short term solution, I think we should (in
> parallel)
> >> discuss and debate a MemberDB replacement, likely something like
> CiviCRM.
> >> This is a bit more work and effort, but I think would have good long
> term
> >> returns, and address the pressing need for targeted member
> communications.
> >
> > On this, I think it would be useful to do some project scoping - not
> > just around membership, but around all of the web-based systems we are
> > thining of upgrading. I know there's also been talk of a zookeepr
> > upgrade/rewrite. There are also probably other needs we should be
> > considering: other LA events, potential lobbying/other LA activities,
> > grants, Mailman 3 integration, Hurd compatibility etc etc etc.
> >
> > The first step here would be wishlisting *everything*, and then
> > scoping it down into actual projects, then commencing work. Strategic
> > planning, yo.
>
> The important thing to keep in mind is that this is all volunteer
> work. Zookeepr has been by volunteers from 2007 to get to where it is
> today.
>
> It would be a big judgement call to do a rewrite rather than incremental
> change - a lot of effort goes into getting all the basics again,
> something that occured about 3 times before we used Zookeepr for the
> second time.
>
> --
> Stewart Smith
>
> _______________________________________________
> linux-aus mailing list
> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au
> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus
>
>
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From mithro at mithis.com  Sun Feb  1 02:38:13 2015
From: mithro at mithis.com (Tim Ansell)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2015 02:38:13 +1100
Subject: [Linux-aus] MemberDB is a great short term solution,
 but we need a broader rethink
In-Reply-To: <CAHLUNMzUvwgZdoGU0BpbBV5m9V1ARsVh6GDPPZNJXf37JonHWg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54B86BDC.4090801@kathyreid.id.au>
 <CADpi2oLP9kR8tVaiYY8VJCrEkvv_J3S5eC+e8oyBbdg44mRVQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <87386vaa7g.fsf@flamingspork.com>
 <CAHLUNMzUvwgZdoGU0BpbBV5m9V1ARsVh6GDPPZNJXf37JonHWg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHLUNMwZ+nYKqeEvs91wBV=sGD6GOGxpKdNVbW-GNd2e-7+1VQ@mail.gmail.com>

Just getting through backlog of emails and discovered that AJ had also
suggested two other alternatives to ZooKeepr in another thread (I'm
excluding the third non-FOSS option).

For completeness, the list of FOSS conference management systems which
*might* be alternatives for ZooKeepr are;

 * http://eldarion.com/symposion/ - used by PyCon US, ApacheCon
 * https://launchpad.net/summit - used by Canonical, Linaro, DebConf
 * http://pentabarf.org/Main_Page - (formerly?) used by CCC, FOSDEM, DebConf

Before LCA should even consider changing, someone actually needs to do the
legwork to find out all of the following;
 * if the systems have the features needed by LCA (or other LA conferences)
and how much effort would be needed to add the missing features,
 * if the projects are under active development (and how does that
development compare to ZooKeepr),
 * if the projects are in any better state than Zookeepr
 * are there any experts we can lean on when we need XXX changes 5 minutes
before LCA starts,

I'm **not** volunteering to do that.

Tim 'mithro' Ansell

On 1 February 2015 at 02:11, Tim Ansell <mithro at mithis.com> wrote:

> As Stewart mentioned, rewriting from scratch takes a lot of extra effort
> and I don't think LA has the resources for that type of task. There is a
> lot more to a conference management system then it first seems like. Plus
> anything which deals with billing gets complicated fast (writing a billing
> system seems to be a right of passage for become a real "grumpy old
> programmer" :).
>
> If people really do want to replace ZooKeepr (which I'm not sure is
> *actually* the case) its worth checking out Symposion used by PyCon US and
> other conferences (http://eldarion.com/symposion/) and contributing to
> that. The big problem with Symposion is that it has been highly North
> America focused and hence probably missing things needed by an Australian
> conference.
>
> Tim 'mithro' Ansell
>
>
> On 28 January 2015 at 13:52, Stewart Smith <stewart at flamingspork.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Michael Cordover <la at mjec.net> writes:
>> > On 16 January 2015 at 14:39, Kathy Reid <kathy at kathyreid.id.au> wrote:
>> >> While this is a great short term solution, I think we should (in
>> parallel)
>> >> discuss and debate a MemberDB replacement, likely something like
>> CiviCRM.
>> >> This is a bit more work and effort, but I think would have good long
>> term
>> >> returns, and address the pressing need for targeted member
>> communications.
>> >
>> > On this, I think it would be useful to do some project scoping - not
>> > just around membership, but around all of the web-based systems we are
>> > thining of upgrading. I know there's also been talk of a zookeepr
>> > upgrade/rewrite. There are also probably other needs we should be
>> > considering: other LA events, potential lobbying/other LA activities,
>> > grants, Mailman 3 integration, Hurd compatibility etc etc etc.
>> >
>> > The first step here would be wishlisting *everything*, and then
>> > scoping it down into actual projects, then commencing work. Strategic
>> > planning, yo.
>>
>> The important thing to keep in mind is that this is all volunteer
>> work. Zookeepr has been by volunteers from 2007 to get to where it is
>> today.
>>
>> It would be a big judgement call to do a rewrite rather than incremental
>> change - a lot of effort goes into getting all the basics again,
>> something that occured about 3 times before we used Zookeepr for the
>> second time.
>>
>> --
>> Stewart Smith
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> linux-aus mailing list
>> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au
>> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus
>>
>>
>
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From mithro at mithis.com  Sun Feb  1 02:55:25 2015
From: mithro at mithis.com (Tim Ansell)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2015 02:55:25 +1100
Subject: [Linux-aus] The case for an established product to replace
	MemberDB
In-Reply-To: <54C07B69.1010607@kathyreid.id.au>
References: <54C07B69.1010607@kathyreid.id.au>
Message-ID: <CAHLUNMx=beKtJro=YxZDvPFgS-BdY5LdY47tzsfZRuqS92DKZg@mail.gmail.com>

In Josh's president report he mentions in the "Membership platform" section;

The Council, thanks to the hard work of Kathy Reid, has put together a list
> of requirements of a membership platform and will be looking for volunteers
> to help with shifting to a new system.


Could the "list of requirements" be shared with the list? (Or could I have
a link to them if they have been shared previous and I've missed them.)

Thanks!

Tim


On 22 January 2015 at 15:24, Kathy Reid <kathy at kathyreid.id.au> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> There's been some excellent debate here about the future of MemberDB, and
> whether a mature product - possibly CiviCRM, but not necessarily - should
> be favoured over a collection of lower level utilities.
> I'd like to make the case for an established product.
>
> Maintability and supportability
>
> While less mature tools and utilities may do the job - and do the job well
> - and even do *exactly* the job we want them to do, they fall down when it
> comes to maintenance and supportability. We have a small team of people who
> work on ZooKeepr - which is an integral part of running linux.conf.au -
> and both getting new people up to speed and willing to commit unpaid time
> to maintenance is difficult. We all have day jobs/lives/other commitments.
>
> If we were to go down the road of a mature product, then the support
> ecosystem would be one of the selection criteria. If necessary, we could
> buy in the skills to maintain and support the product, and *documentation*
> for the product is likely going to also be more comprehensive, lowering the
> barrier to entry of those who may wish to volunteer time to maintain it.
>
>
> Alignment with values
>
> Linux Australia supports open communities and open technologies, and
> contributes to the open source industry and ecosystem in Australia and New
> Zealand. I feel that it's actually a closer alignment to our values to
> support and adopt an existing mature product - even if we need to pay to do
> so - than to build another tool which will likely entropy over time - as
> MemberDB has.
>
>
> Feature set and applicability
>
> If LA were to adopt a mature tool, the feature set is likely to be much
> richer - even if we don't use all of it. There will likely be use cases we
> hadn't though of as the organisation evolves and our remit changes - and to
> have a mature product established is likely to give us more flexibility. A
> mature toolset is also likely to have wider applicability to the LUGs who
> are Subcommittees of Linux Australia - and therefore entitled to leverage
> LA's infrastructure.
>
>
> Cost of ownership
>
> This argument is somewhat contentious. A mature product may have an
> initial cost - for purchase, or installation consultancy -and for ongoing
> maintenance and upgrades, depending if it's hosted on LA servers or hosted
> somewhere in the cloud. However, the TCO of a non-mature product comes from
> the loss of productivity in being able to do all the things we'd like to do
> with a Membership system, and possibly the competing technologies it would
> be written in. For instance, linux.org.au is on Drupal. The people
> administering it - Web Team, Council etc - are going to be the same people
> who use the tools and utilities. Let's make it easy for the people who
> volunteer their time to Linux Australia to do what they need to do, rather
> than having to switch between multiple systems.
>
>
> Legal compliance
>
> Linux Australia is incorporated under the Incorporations Act of NSW, and
> administered by the NSW Office of Fair Trading. There are a number of
> requirements this legal framework places upon LA - which are generally very
> reasonable. They include the ability to do good reporting on membership,
> and ensure currency of membership. A mature product is both more likely to
> allow us to achieve compliance, and further - and distinctly - demonstrate
> that we are compliant.
>
>
> I warmly welcome further discussion around this point.
>
> Kind regards,
> Kathy
>
>
>
>
> --
> --
>
> Kathy Reid
> kathy at kathyreid.id.au
> 0418 130 636
> @kathyreid
>
> _______________________________________________
> linux-aus mailing list
> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au
> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus
>
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From kathy at kathyreid.id.au  Sun Feb  1 16:02:11 2015
From: kathy at kathyreid.id.au (Kathy Reid)
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2015 16:02:11 +1100
Subject: [Linux-aus] The case for an established product to replace
	MemberDB
In-Reply-To: <CAHLUNMx=beKtJro=YxZDvPFgS-BdY5LdY47tzsfZRuqS92DKZg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54C07B69.1010607@kathyreid.id.au>
 <CAHLUNMx=beKtJro=YxZDvPFgS-BdY5LdY47tzsfZRuqS92DKZg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54CDB353.5000403@kathyreid.id.au>

Hiya Tim,
Great suggestion - 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tyTA3Fj5J9XL2D7UTIxw46smXGrLM5J-fI4g6GxK9hM/edit?usp=sharing

Bare bones at the moment, but as with all these things, it's a starting 
point.

Best,
Kathy


On 1/02/2015 2:55 AM, Tim Ansell wrote:
> In Josh's president report he mentions in the "Membership platform" 
> section;
>
>     The Council, thanks to the hard work of Kathy Reid, has put
>     together a list of requirements of a membership platform and will
>     be looking for volunteers to help with shifting to a new system.
>
>
> Could the "list of requirements" be shared with the list? (Or could I 
> have a link to them if they have been shared previous and I've missed 
> them.)
>
> Thanks!
>
> Tim
>
>
> On 22 January 2015 at 15:24, Kathy Reid <kathy at kathyreid.id.au 
> <mailto:kathy at kathyreid.id.au>> wrote:
>
>     Hi everyone,
>
>     There's been some excellent debate here about the future of
>     MemberDB, and whether a mature product - possibly CiviCRM, but not
>     necessarily - should be favoured over a collection of lower level
>     utilities.
>     I'd like to make the case for an established product.
>
>     Maintability and supportability
>
>     While less mature tools and utilities may do the job - and do the
>     job well - and even do *exactly* the job we want them to do, they
>     fall down when it comes to maintenance and supportability. We have
>     a small team of people who work on ZooKeepr - which is an integral
>     part of running linux.conf.au <http://linux.conf.au> - and both
>     getting new people up to speed and willing to commit unpaid time
>     to maintenance is difficult. We all have day jobs/lives/other
>     commitments.
>
>     If we were to go down the road of a mature product, then the
>     support ecosystem would be one of the selection criteria. If
>     necessary, we could buy in the skills to maintain and support the
>     product, and *documentation* for the product is likely going to
>     also be more comprehensive, lowering the barrier to entry of those
>     who may wish to volunteer time to maintain it.
>
>
>     Alignment with values
>
>     Linux Australia supports open communities and open technologies,
>     and contributes to the open source industry and ecosystem in
>     Australia and New Zealand. I feel that it's actually a closer
>     alignment to our values to support and adopt an existing mature
>     product - even if we need to pay to do so - than to build another
>     tool which will likely entropy over time - as MemberDB has.
>
>
>     Feature set and applicability
>
>     If LA were to adopt a mature tool, the feature set is likely to be
>     much richer - even if we don't use all of it. There will likely be
>     use cases we hadn't though of as the organisation evolves and our
>     remit changes - and to have a mature product established is likely
>     to give us more flexibility. A mature toolset is also likely to
>     have wider applicability to the LUGs who are Subcommittees of
>     Linux Australia - and therefore entitled to leverage LA's
>     infrastructure.
>
>
>     Cost of ownership
>
>     This argument is somewhat contentious. A mature product may have
>     an initial cost - for purchase, or installation consultancy -and
>     for ongoing maintenance and upgrades, depending if it's hosted on
>     LA servers or hosted somewhere in the cloud. However, the TCO of a
>     non-mature product comes from the loss of productivity in being
>     able to do all the things we'd like to do with a Membership
>     system, and possibly the competing technologies it would be
>     written in. For instance, linux.org.au <http://linux.org.au> is on
>     Drupal. The people administering it - Web Team, Council etc - are
>     going to be the same people who use the tools and utilities. Let's
>     make it easy for the people who volunteer their time to Linux
>     Australia to do what they need to do, rather than having to switch
>     between multiple systems.
>
>
>     Legal compliance
>
>     Linux Australia is incorporated under the Incorporations Act of
>     NSW, and administered by the NSW Office of Fair Trading. There are
>     a number of requirements this legal framework places upon LA -
>     which are generally very reasonable. They include the ability to
>     do good reporting on membership, and ensure currency of
>     membership. A mature product is both more likely to allow us to
>     achieve compliance, and further - and distinctly - demonstrate
>     that we are compliant.
>
>
>     I warmly welcome further discussion around this point.
>
>     Kind regards,
>     Kathy
>
>
>
>
>     -- 
>     --
>
>     Kathy Reid
>     kathy at kathyreid.id.au <mailto:kathy at kathyreid.id.au>
>     0418 130 636 <tel:0418%20130%20636>
>     @kathyreid
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     linux-aus mailing list
>     linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au <mailto:linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au>
>     http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus
>
>

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From jayvdb at gmail.com  Sun Feb  1 18:17:10 2015
From: jayvdb at gmail.com (John Mark Vandenberg)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2015 14:17:10 +0700
Subject: [Linux-aus] MemberDB is a great short term solution,
 but we need a broader rethink
In-Reply-To: <CAD87AHVMCZYvhhTZi-98Az1eJPktVkKK7Y7dKLse6qVrjsSboQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54B86BDC.4090801@kathyreid.id.au>
 <CADpi2oLP9kR8tVaiYY8VJCrEkvv_J3S5eC+e8oyBbdg44mRVQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1421377640.4028.11.camel@colmiga.org>
 <CAA+GJgS6UaurP7NxRUzBfjRzOx_3N+y=bZv4u6PBDSq2WWCtzw@mail.gmail.com>
 <54BCCE5B.7090009@nitrotech.org>
 <CACd9AG8aUeRdfL2orCf1cYjEg9AGwM4uhz3Sq9QqhmekAfzMVA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD87AHVMCZYvhhTZi-98Az1eJPktVkKK7Y7dKLse6qVrjsSboQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO9U_Z66Xrmu1W=6M+-yKA0oaJvzaQa_-nL5sgKBW4teeSFhJQ@mail.gmail.com>

If a python rewrite is on the cards, please let me know.

-- 
John Vandenberg

From kathy at kathyreid.id.au  Sun Feb  1 19:09:29 2015
From: kathy at kathyreid.id.au (Kathy Reid)
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2015 19:09:29 +1100
Subject: [Linux-aus] MemberDB is a great short term solution,
 but we need a broader rethink
In-Reply-To: <CAHLUNMwZ+nYKqeEvs91wBV=sGD6GOGxpKdNVbW-GNd2e-7+1VQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54B86BDC.4090801@kathyreid.id.au>
 <CADpi2oLP9kR8tVaiYY8VJCrEkvv_J3S5eC+e8oyBbdg44mRVQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <87386vaa7g.fsf@flamingspork.com>
 <CAHLUNMzUvwgZdoGU0BpbBV5m9V1ARsVh6GDPPZNJXf37JonHWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHLUNMwZ+nYKqeEvs91wBV=sGD6GOGxpKdNVbW-GNd2e-7+1VQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54CDDF39.1040708@kathyreid.id.au>

Thanks Tim for the roundup.

I think our first step here should be identifying, then consolidating 
and (with Council's input of course), prioritising and weighting the 
requirements. While the most prominent requirements are likely going to 
be around managing memberships for Linux Australia, if we think forward 
to where LA might be in five years, this will also give rise to 
requirements for things like event handling and possibly tracking things 
like policy submissions.

Then, we should rate each contender against weighted requirements to see 
what the best candidates are.

Does this sound like a good way forward?

Kind regards,
Kathy


On 1/02/2015 2:38 AM, Tim Ansell wrote:
> Just getting through backlog of emails and discovered that AJ had also 
> suggested two other alternatives to ZooKeepr in another thread (I'm 
> excluding the third non-FOSS option).
>
> For completeness, the list of FOSS conference management systems which 
> *might* be alternatives for ZooKeepr are;
>
>  * http://eldarion.com/symposion/ - used by PyCon US, ApacheCon
>  * https://launchpad.net/summit - used by Canonical, Linaro, DebConf
>  * http://pentabarf.org/Main_Page - (formerly?) used by CCC, 
> FOSDEM, DebConf
>
> Before LCA should even consider changing, someone actually needs to do 
> the legwork to find out all of the following;
>  * if the systems have the features needed by LCA (or other LA 
> conferences) and how much effort would be needed to add the missing 
> features,
>  * if the projects are under active development (and how does that 
> development compare to ZooKeepr),
>  * if the projects are in any better state than Zookeepr
>  * are there any experts we can lean on when we need XXX changes 5 
> minutes before LCA starts,
>
> I'm **not** volunteering to do that.
>
> Tim 'mithro' Ansell
>
> On 1 February 2015 at 02:11, Tim Ansell <mithro at mithis.com 
> <mailto:mithro at mithis.com>> wrote:
>
>     As Stewart mentioned, rewriting from scratch takes a lot of extra
>     effort and I don't think LA has the resources for that type of
>     task. There is a lot more to a conference management system then
>     it first seems like. Plus anything which deals with billing gets
>     complicated fast (writing a billing system seems to be a right of
>     passage for become a real "grumpy old programmer" :).
>
>     If people really do want to replace ZooKeepr (which I'm not sure
>     is *actually* the case) its worth checking out Symposion used by
>     PyCon US and other conferences (http://eldarion.com/symposion/)
>     and contributing to that. The big problem with Symposion is that
>     it has been highly North America focused and hence probably
>     missing things needed by an Australian conference.
>
>     Tim 'mithro' Ansell
>
>
>     On 28 January 2015 at 13:52, Stewart Smith
>     <stewart at flamingspork.com <mailto:stewart at flamingspork.com>> wrote:
>
>         Michael Cordover <la at mjec.net <mailto:la at mjec.net>> writes:
>         > On 16 January 2015 at 14:39, Kathy Reid
>         <kathy at kathyreid.id.au <mailto:kathy at kathyreid.id.au>> wrote:
>         >> While this is a great short term solution, I think we
>         should (in parallel)
>         >> discuss and debate a MemberDB replacement, likely something
>         like CiviCRM.
>         >> This is a bit more work and effort, but I think would have
>         good long term
>         >> returns, and address the pressing need for targeted member
>         communications.
>         >
>         > On this, I think it would be useful to do some project
>         scoping - not
>         > just around membership, but around all of the web-based
>         systems we are
>         > thining of upgrading. I know there's also been talk of a
>         zookeepr
>         > upgrade/rewrite. There are also probably other needs we
>         should be
>         > considering: other LA events, potential lobbying/other LA
>         activities,
>         > grants, Mailman 3 integration, Hurd compatibility etc etc etc.
>         >
>         > The first step here would be wishlisting *everything*, and then
>         > scoping it down into actual projects, then commencing work.
>         Strategic
>         > planning, yo.
>
>         The important thing to keep in mind is that this is all volunteer
>         work. Zookeepr has been by volunteers from 2007 to get to
>         where it is
>         today.
>
>         It would be a big judgement call to do a rewrite rather than
>         incremental
>         change - a lot of effort goes into getting all the basics again,
>         something that occured about 3 times before we used Zookeepr
>         for the
>         second time.
>
>         --
>         Stewart Smith
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         linux-aus mailing list
>         linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au <mailto:linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au>
>         http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus
>
>
>

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From mikal at stillhq.com  Mon Feb  2 10:48:25 2015
From: mikal at stillhq.com (Michael Still)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2015 10:48:25 +1100
Subject: [Linux-aus] Proposing a membership subcommittee
In-Reply-To: <87y4on8vgj.fsf@flamingspork.com>
References: <CAEd1pt743r9xcnPQdL++3Gjn68_XYnB_kZx_kn1Kar1=31C8Ug@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD87AHVpa=DYDJqz6XvFJ6=u_PHMrM24c_kJwGKUwUHbpswbXA@mail.gmail.com>
 <87y4on8vgj.fsf@flamingspork.com>
Message-ID: <CAEd1pt4QkunXTR3Hw5LQx4vF2PJFuTce1acVA5vC8-UwfYsWQA@mail.gmail.com>

Ok, so hi.

I just came back to a business trip to discover I am drowing in
memberdb threads. That's exciting, because its way better than no one
caring enough to even reply to email. Give me a couple of days to
digest the various emails, and then let's try for a quick IRC meeting
of interested parties to come up with a plan.

Michael

On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 1:55 PM, Stewart Smith <stewart at flamingspork.com> wrote:
> Neill Cox <neill at ingenious.com.au> writes:
>> I am definitely interested in modernising memberdb.
>>
>> At this point I have a proof of concept that:
>>
>> - Uses the current database schema
>> - Exposes a REST API via a flask/sqlalchemy
>> - Provides a UI built on AngularJS and bootstrap
>>
>> It's very early but looks like it should work.
>>
>> There's lots still to do though and I'm keen to talk to anyone else
>> interested in being involved.
>>
>> I'd also like to thank Stewart Smith for all of his work on the current
>> memberdb, it's nice to have a sane design to start from!
>
> This all sounds awesome, and exactly the direction that things should go
> in. The MemberDB code is not-exactly-best-practice of a dozen years ago,
> so there's an awful lot that can be improved. Considering the tricky bit
> is actually just the voting, it's quite likely that redoing the rest of
> it in a modern framework would be excellent and not too hard.
>
> Probably a bunch better than all the manual PHP from way back when.
>
> --
> Stewart Smith



-- 
Rackspace Australia

From josh at nitrotech.org  Mon Feb  2 17:46:24 2015
From: josh at nitrotech.org (Joshua Hesketh)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2015 17:46:24 +1100
Subject: [Linux-aus] MemberDB is a great short term solution,
 but we need a broader rethink
In-Reply-To: <CAO9U_Z66Xrmu1W=6M+-yKA0oaJvzaQa_-nL5sgKBW4teeSFhJQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54B86BDC.4090801@kathyreid.id.au>
 <CADpi2oLP9kR8tVaiYY8VJCrEkvv_J3S5eC+e8oyBbdg44mRVQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1421377640.4028.11.camel@colmiga.org>
 <CAA+GJgS6UaurP7NxRUzBfjRzOx_3N+y=bZv4u6PBDSq2WWCtzw@mail.gmail.com>
 <54BCCE5B.7090009@nitrotech.org>
 <CACd9AG8aUeRdfL2orCf1cYjEg9AGwM4uhz3Sq9QqhmekAfzMVA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD87AHVMCZYvhhTZi-98Az1eJPktVkKK7Y7dKLse6qVrjsSboQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAO9U_Z66Xrmu1W=6M+-yKA0oaJvzaQa_-nL5sgKBW4teeSFhJQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54CF1D40.6030304@nitrotech.org>

A python re-write for memberdb is indeed on the cards. Neill, who has
volunteered to help, has started working on a proof of concept.

However, as highlighted in these discussions there may be reason to use
an existing solution which may or may not be python. I'm sure the
volunteers who have offered to help here will be taking all these into
account.

Any reason you ask? Are you able to help out?

Cheers,
Josh

On 01/02/15 18:17, John Mark Vandenberg wrote:
> If a python rewrite is on the cards, please let me know.
>


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From donna at cc.com.au  Mon Feb  9 16:40:40 2015
From: donna at cc.com.au (Donna Benjamin)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2015 16:40:40 +1100
Subject: [Linux-aus] DrupalSouth - not long now - 5-7 March in Melbourne
Message-ID: <1423460440.8328.11.camel@gin.mel.cc.com.au>

Hi all,

Less than a month to go until DrupalSouth now.

As it is a Linux Australia event, I invite you all to check out our
program and come along, or perhaps forward to colleagues you know who'd
be interested.

https://melbourne2015.drupal.org.au/program/schedule 

We've got a couple of fantastic keynote speakers, 2 full days of
sessions and a hands on Sprint Saturday to sit down and hack.

Tix are on sale on the website.

https://melbourne2015.drupal.org.au/conference/tickets

-- 
Donna Benjamin

Drupal South Melbourne 2015
5-7 March 2015 - Melbourne Convention and Exhibition Centre
http://melbourne2015.drupal.org.au 


From secretary at linux.org.au  Mon Feb  9 20:03:18 2015
From: secretary at linux.org.au (Linux Australia Secretary)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2015 20:03:18 +1100
Subject: [Linux-aus] Minutes of Council Meeting 7th January 2015
Message-ID: <54D877D6.5040301@linux.org.au>

Good Evening everyone,

Please find below the minutes for the Linux Australia Council Meeting 
held on the 7th of January prior to the AGM.

As always feedback and comments are warmly welcomed.

Kind Regards

Sae Ra


-------


    1. Meeting overview and key information


      Present

Ms. Kathy Reid, Mr. Francois Marier, Mr. Joshua Hesketh, Ms. Sae Ra 
Germaine (Minutes), Mr. Christopher Neugebauer


      Apologies

Mr. Hugh Blemmings, Mr. Josh Stewart


Meeting opened by Joshua Hesketh  at 1949hrs and quorum was achieved


      Key Stats

Stats not recorded this fortnight


      MOTIONthat the previous minutes of 17 December are correct


      Moved by Joshua Hesketh


      Seconded by Kathy Reid


      Carried unanimously


    2. Log of correspondence


      Motions moved on list


Nil motions moved on list this fortnight


      General correspondence

  *

    Council elections and nominations update
    Voting is in progress - to discuss any comms needed to encourage voting

  *

    Conflicts of interest in election nominations
    Discussions for the 2015 council to decide in regards to policy.
    MOTIONby KATHY REID that LA Council 2015 may wish to consider
    implementing a policy for declarations of conflict.
    SECONDEDby JOSHUA HESKETH
    CARRIEDunanimously

  *

    Annual General Meeting (AGM) update
    ACTION: Kathy to do draft AGM with office bearer reports to come in
    due course
    In Progress
    ACTION: Kathy to note Josh Stewart and Sae Ra Germaine as apologies

  *

    Office bearer reports and financial audit
    Treasurer and President reports are in progress
    Audit is in progress with the accountants
    UPDATE: Joshua?s Presidents? report has been completed and sent out
    to the list.
    ACTION: Francois to complete Treasurer?s report and Audit
    ACTION:Audit to be signed after the AGM and sent to accountants.

  *

    Request to house LinuxSA hosting on Linux Australia servers from
    DAVID LLOYD
    ACTION: Kathy to make contact with David to acknowledge request
    ACTION: Joshua to shoulder tap the admin team and see what?s possible
    ACTION: Joshua to communicate with DAVID LLOYD and discuss outcome
    UPDATE: All communication has been completed, Admin team will do
    what they can then follow up once hardware is upgraded.


3. Review of action items from previous meetings

  *

    ACTION: Joshua to communicate with GEMMA ROSE DUBLAN regarding grant
    request
    Completed

  *

    Discussions with Rusty Wrench team around announcing nominations
    In progress
    ACTION: Need to ensure that Wrench will be in Auckland for awarding
    Joshua will take the action
    Completed

  *

    ACTION: Joshua Hesketh to seek closure reports on closed events,
    being DrupalGov, JoomlaDay Sydney, WordCampSydney
    UPDATE: WordCampSydney are still to order Speakers? Gifts.

  *

    ACTION in progress with Admin team for 3 year spending plan for
    hardware replacement

  *

    ACTION with Josh Hesketh to ensure 3 year server support package in
    progress
    Actions are in progress with Admin Team
    UPDATE: Generally in progress.

  *

    Discussion of YouTube assets raised by KATHY REID based on
    discussions with TIM ANSELL
    ACTION: Josh Stewart to work through with Tim Ansell in due course
    In progress, Josh has been working with LCA2015 team on this too.
    Awaiting access to servers to continue, but generally in progress
    UPDATE: Access to YouTube accounts sorted, and metadata for missing
    4 LCA years has been found (2010, 2011, 2013, 2009), test uploads
    have been successful.
    Huge thanks are extended to LEON WRIGHT for his enormous efforts here.
    UPDATE: 2009 and 2010 have been uploaded, and now scrapers are being
    written for 2007 and 2008.
    UPDATE: In Progress


  *

    ACTION: brand/logo policy needs to go on backburner
    UPDATE: President?s report touches on this.


  *

    ACTION: We need to set up a VM to enable continuous delivery for
    conferences.
    ACTION: Joshua to discuss with LCA2016 process for managing ZooKeepr
    UPDATE: In progress with admin team. LCA2016 are aware.
    UPDATE: We want to be smarter about how we do continuous integration
    with ZooKeepr, there is some discussion and work to be done here
    between Geelong LCA2016 team, Admin Team and Joshua. Dependent on
    Geelong deployment timeframes.
    Update: Discussion completed.

  *

    ACTION: Kathy to use @linuxaustralia account to retweet @linuxconfau
    announcements
    UPDATE: In progress


    4. Items for discussion

     1.

        LCA2015 update
        Sales are progressing well.  5 Days to go!


     2.

        LCA2016 update
        Presentation has been completed.


     3.

        LCA2017 update
        Announcement to be made at LCA2015
        ACTION: Joshua to announce on the closing ceremony of LCA2015

     4.

        PyCon AU update
        Site visits have been completed and to be announced.

     5.

        Drupal South
        ACTION: Joshua to touch base with DONNA BENJAMIN

     6.

        Drupal Gov
        Wrapped up

     7.

        DrupalCampSydney
        Wrapped up

     8.

        WordCampSydney
        Some financials to wrap up, Speakers? Gifts in progress
        ACTION: To be picked up after LCA2015


    5. Items for noting
    Nil items for noting.


    6. Other business

  *

    Transfer of $AUD to $NZD given the falling $AUD
    For discussion of implications and a decision
    Noted.  No further action required. Cashflow is adequate.

  *

    Do we still need a Risk Register? Should we put some focus on it?
    ACTION: Kathy to update Risk Register and bring back to Council for
    review
    No update since last meeting
    Noted: For new 2015 council to consider.

  *

    Financial year closed

    IN PROGRESS: Francois to work with Auditor to sign off 2013/2014
    accounts

TO NOTE: Office Bearers to start thinking about Office Bearer reports 
for the AGM


  *

    Communication from Maggie from Wuhan Deepin Technology Co., Ltd.
    regarding hosting of the Deepin Distribution.

    To be considered by the Admin/Mirror Team
    ACTION: Kathy to respond and advise that this has been forwarded to
    the Admin team and will be considered after our busy period
    (linux.conf.au) has been completed.


7. In camera

Nil items were discussed in camera


Meeting Closed at 2011hrs

-- 

Sae Ra Germaine
Secretary
Linux Australia

secretary at linux.org.au
http://linux.org.au

Linux Australia Inc
GPO Box 4788
Sydney NSW 2001
Australia

ABN 56 987 117 479

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From a.nielsen at shikadi.net  Tue Feb 17 20:54:34 2015
From: a.nielsen at shikadi.net (Adam Nielsen)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:54:34 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] SBS on Demand under Linux
Message-ID: <20150217195434.19c4a96d@korath.teln.shikadi.net>

Hi all,

Has anyone figured out how to get SBS on Demand working under Linux,
without needing to install Flash?  With all the security issues it has
I really don't want to install it, and it doesn't look like they
support HTML5, so it seems as if there's no way to use it under Linux.

Has anyone found a way to do this?

Thanks,
Adam.

From bob.hepple at gmail.com  Tue Feb 17 21:10:54 2015
From: bob.hepple at gmail.com (Bob Hepple)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:10:54 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] SBS on Demand under Linux
In-Reply-To: <20150217195434.19c4a96d@korath.teln.shikadi.net>
References: <20150217195434.19c4a96d@korath.teln.shikadi.net>
Message-ID: <CAHzpm2gEBfconE88ftpA8saO0zMLZux7JGTmMP2GPgiWNvPHhA@mail.gmail.com>

I had it working briefly with chrome which includes a version of flash IIRC.

It stopped working last time I looked but maybe I just need an
upgrade. That was Centos-6


Cheers

On 17 February 2015 at 19:54, Adam Nielsen <a.nielsen at shikadi.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Has anyone figured out how to get SBS on Demand working under Linux,
> without needing to install Flash?  With all the security issues it has
> I really don't want to install it, and it doesn't look like they
> support HTML5, so it seems as if there's no way to use it under Linux.
>
> Has anyone found a way to do this?
>
> Thanks,
> Adam.
> _______________________________________________
> linux-aus mailing list
> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au
> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus

From bpa at iss.net.au  Tue Feb 17 21:16:30 2015
From: bpa at iss.net.au (Brenda Aynsley)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:46:30 +1030
Subject: [Linux-aus] SBS on Demand under Linux
In-Reply-To: <20150217195434.19c4a96d@korath.teln.shikadi.net>
References: <20150217195434.19c4a96d@korath.teln.shikadi.net>
Message-ID: <54E314FE.4020203@iss.net.au>

On 17/02/15 20:24, Adam Nielsen wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Has anyone figured out how to get SBS on Demand working under Linux,
> without needing to install Flash?  With all the security issues it has
> I really don't want to install it, and it doesn't look like they
> support HTML5, so it seems as if there's no way to use it under Linux.
>
> Has anyone found a way to do this?

it appears to work without anything to be done except open it in 
chromium 
http://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/video/392104003638/Mad-Men-The-Other-Woman

at least in ubuntu 14.04

cheers
brenda


-- 
Brenda Aynsley OAM, FACS CP, ACS Honorary Life Member
ACS President 2014 & 2015
Chair IFIP International Professional Practice Partnership (IP3) 2011-15

ACS Partnering for Success

Mobile:+61(0)412 662 988 || Phone:+61(0)8 7127 0107
Skype/Yahoo/Twitter: baynsley
Mobile when I am out of Australia: +372 5408 0036

From ben at stumbles.id.au  Tue Feb 17 21:41:25 2015
From: ben at stumbles.id.au (Ben Sturmfels)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 21:41:25 +1100
Subject: [Linux-aus] SBS on Demand under Linux
In-Reply-To: <20150217195434.19c4a96d@korath.teln.shikadi.net>
References: <20150217195434.19c4a96d@korath.teln.shikadi.net>
Message-ID: <54E31AD5.7010809@stumbles.id.au>

On 17/02/15 20:54, Adam Nielsen wrote:

> Has anyone figured out how to get SBS on Demand working under Linux,
> without needing to install Flash?  With all the security issues it has
> I really don't want to install it, and it doesn't look like they
> support HTML5, so it seems as if there's no way to use it under Linux.

Hi Adam,

I had no luck with Gnash or Lightspark, but was able to play movies
directly with VLC with a bit of messing around.

Open up the HTML source for the video you're interested in and search
for "releaseUrls". Just below this you'll see a parameter 'html': '[URL]'.

[URL] refers to an SMIL file, which is the meta-data that a video player
can use to play the file - where to download the various versions,
subtitles etc. In theory you should just be able open that file in Totem
or similar.

For me, Totem didn't support the video codec though, so I got only
audio. That might vary between movies. VLC didn't want to open the SMIL
file directly, but worked fine if I opened the SMIL file in a text
editor and copied the [URL] from  <video src="[URL]" into VLC's "open
location".

Definitely not user friendly, but not too much work for an hour or so of
entertainment. And much respect to you for not installing Adobe Flash. :)

Regards,
Ben

-- 
Ben Sturmfels

Sturm
www.sturm.com.au
(03) 9024 2467



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From aj at erisian.com.au  Wed Feb 18 10:17:48 2015
From: aj at erisian.com.au (Anthony Towns)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 09:17:48 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] Proposing a membership subcommittee
In-Reply-To: <CAEd1pt4QkunXTR3Hw5LQx4vF2PJFuTce1acVA5vC8-UwfYsWQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEd1pt743r9xcnPQdL++3Gjn68_XYnB_kZx_kn1Kar1=31C8Ug@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD87AHVpa=DYDJqz6XvFJ6=u_PHMrM24c_kJwGKUwUHbpswbXA@mail.gmail.com>
 <87y4on8vgj.fsf@flamingspork.com>
 <CAEd1pt4QkunXTR3Hw5LQx4vF2PJFuTce1acVA5vC8-UwfYsWQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJS_LCVc+5mBr13JRFNh+FUnH-iJXDrxSB71BrRvBkzkK6GRVA@mail.gmail.com>

On 2 February 2015 at 09:48, Michael Still <mikal at stillhq.com> wrote:

> Ok, so hi.
>
> I just came back to a business trip to discover I am drowing in
> memberdb threads. That's exciting, because its way better than no one
> caring enough to even reply to email. Give me a couple of days to
> digest the various emails, and then let's try for a quick IRC meeting
> of interested parties to come up with a plan.


?Did that happen already??



>
> Michael
>
> On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 1:55 PM, Stewart Smith <stewart at flamingspork.com>
> wrote:
> > Neill Cox <neill at ingenious.com.au> writes:
> >> I am definitely interested in modernising memberdb.
> >>
> >> At this point I have a proof of concept that:
> >>
> >> - Uses the current database schema
> >> - Exposes a REST API via a flask/sqlalchemy
> >> - Provides a UI built on AngularJS and bootstrap
> >>
> >> It's very early but looks like it should work.
> >>
> >> There's lots still to do though and I'm keen to talk to anyone else
> >> interested in being involved.
> >>
> >> I'd also like to thank Stewart Smith for all of his work on the current
> >> memberdb, it's nice to have a sane design to start from!
> >
> > This all sounds awesome, and exactly the direction that things should go
> > in. The MemberDB code is not-exactly-best-practice of a dozen years ago,
> > so there's an awful lot that can be improved. Considering the tricky bit
> > is actually just the voting, it's quite likely that redoing the rest of
> > it in a modern framework would be excellent and not too hard.
> >
> > Probably a bunch better than all the manual PHP from way back when.
> >
> > --
> > Stewart Smith
>
>
>
> --
> Rackspace Australia
> _______________________________________________
> linux-aus mailing list
> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au
> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus
>



-- 
Anthony Towns <aj at erisian.com.au>
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From a.nielsen at shikadi.net  Wed Feb 18 18:29:35 2015
From: a.nielsen at shikadi.net (Adam Nielsen)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 17:29:35 +1000
Subject: [Linux-aus] SBS on Demand under Linux
In-Reply-To: <54E31AD5.7010809@stumbles.id.au>
References: <20150217195434.19c4a96d@korath.teln.shikadi.net>
 <54E31AD5.7010809@stumbles.id.au>
Message-ID: <20150218172935.4d6c7652@korath.teln.shikadi.net>

> Open up the HTML source for the video you're interested in and search
> for "releaseUrls". Just below this you'll see a parameter 'html':
> '[URL]'.
> 
> [URL] refers to an SMIL file, which is the meta-data that a video
> player can use to play the file - where to download the various
> versions, subtitles etc. In theory you should just be able open that
> file in Totem or similar.
> 
> For me, Totem didn't support the video codec though, so I got only
> audio. That might vary between movies. VLC didn't want to open the
> SMIL file directly, but worked fine if I opened the SMIL file in a
> text editor and copied the [URL] from  <video src="[URL]" into VLC's
> "open location".

Thanks for the suggestion!  This worked perfectly for me.  That URL
downloads an .m3u playlist which mplayer is able to play without any
problems, even allowing me to seek back and forth as well.  There's a
small glitch every five minutes or so as it jumps to the next file in
the playlist but otherwise it works really well!

It's not quite standard definition (360p) but it is good enough to
catch something I missed because I didn't know it was on.  At least as
a consolation for the low quality you don't get shown ads which is a
fair trade IMHO.

> Definitely not user friendly, but not too much work for an hour or so
> of entertainment. And much respect to you for not installing Adobe
> Flash. :)

Haha thanks :-)  Yes for occasional use it's not too bad at all!  Many
thanks for the info.

Thanks Bob and Brenda for the suggestions too.  Unfortunately I've
never had much success with Chromium, it's a bit too bare-bones for
me!  Good to know it's there as a fallback though if Ben's method ever
stops working.

Cheers,
Adam.