[Linux-aus] Victim Impact Statement

[David Bell]

> It's as wrong as claiming that racism against Muslims is okay in Germany
because "This and much much worse happened to Jews in Germany".

Godwin.
/thread

Almost 75 emails in total later... Now can we let this one rest?
On 06/11/2013 1:31 am, "Luke Martinez" <me at luke.asia> wrote:

> Luke, I'm sure this won't meet your exceedingly narrow terms of reference
for 'acceptable' evidence, but for others playing along at home...

The way Paul wrote his message, he justified it with "This, and much much
worse, has happened to women in IT."
That is wrong. Morally incorrect.

It's as wrong as claiming that racism against Muslims is okay in Germany
because "This and much much worse happened to Jews in Germany".

 *It just doesn't cut it.*

> Yes, I know. You call BS on 'anecdotal evidence'.


Feminism* LOVES *anecdotal evidence, it allows them to easily and simply
make things that happen barely ever to a small subset of a handful of women
sound like they happen all the time to all women.

It's good for the *victim* image, the one that feminists love to use when
they're not playing the empowered card.

If you go read the feminism tag <http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/feminism> on
tumblr and the like and spend a good hour there, you'd start to think that
any woman who steps outside for even half a second will get assaulted,
whistled at and harassed all while being denied an abortion & contraceptive
whilst being oppressed by some random straight white man.

Which ends up with weird things like this
happening;<https://gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/85a91f2b9c2a93b99dd19621d7e0e33a/tumblr_mff0i7zxYS1rtcur5o1_500.jpg>Because*
maybe* those bad things just doesn't happen as often as they like to say.

> I note from previous rants that you're also not too keen on engaging with
actual research papers with actual data in them, preferring to dismiss them
as being biased (without bothering to present countering evidence) because
they support the argument being made, to wit:

I was linked to FinallyFeminism and GeekWikia. These are not "actual
research papers with actual data in them" these are blogs/wikis written by
Feminists. Not once in this entire two threads have i been linked to an
actual research paper.


*Research Paper Academic publishing describes the subfield of publishing
which distributes academic research and scholarship. Most academic work is
published in journal article, book or thesis form.*

> I note from previous rants

Previous rants? In these two mailing list threads or somewhere else?


>Yes, because everyone cites information that contradicts the argument
they're making in the hope of proving their case, right? *eyeroll*

It's not information, you don't cite blog and wiki posts, you cite what
they cite, the research (if those websites do cite research at all). If
somebody pointed me to some real data i'd accept it, not some anecdotal
post on a feminist blog made just for ad revenue. (looking at you, Jezebel.)

I also want to note that not one result in the first 5 pages was about a
woman being harassed on a Mailing List.

> So for those playing along at home

Score: 0.

However, I don't think Linux-Aus is the best place for this discussion
about feminism to continue.
Regards,
Luke


On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 12:28 AM, Jessica Smith <jessica at itgrrl.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 9:20 PM, Luke Martinez <me at luke.asia> wrote:
>
> >This, and much much worse, has happened
>> to women in IT.
>>
>> Show me one instance of a woman being publicly shamed because she has a
>> different opinion about policy on a IT Mailing List.  Most mailing lists
>> are public & have records so i'm sure you can show me... oh.. you can't?
>>
>> This faux anecdotal evidence BS is just that, BS. THIS is what has
>> happened, it's not justifiable just because you can come up with some
>> fairyland situation in which a woman is publicly shamed for having a
>> different opinion on a policy.
>>
>> Seriously.  "oh but in my imagination im SUUUUUREEE its happened to women
>> toooo" is horrible justifcation.
>>
>
>
> Luke, I'm sure this won't meet your exceedingly narrow terms of reference
> for 'acceptable' evidence, but for others playing along at home...
>
> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=harassment+of+women+in+computing
>
> As before, a few minutes on your search engine of choice will yield many
> reports of incidents that demonstrate that yes, indeed, it is exceedingly
> common for women to be targeted routinely with extreme responses for the
> multiple crimes of being female, having opinions, and daring to share them
> online.
>
> Yes, I know. You call BS on 'anecdotal evidence'. I note from previous
> rants that you're also not too keen on engaging with actual research papers
> with actual data in them, preferring to dismiss them as being biased
> (without bothering to present countering evidence) because they support the
> argument being made, to wit:
>
>
> the closest thing to evidence that was being cited was the _clearly_
>> biased finallyfeminism and geek feminism wikia. (Yea... of course websites
>> that are pro-your-opinion are going to say things that are
>> pro-your-opinion... That's a given.)
>
>
> Yes, because everyone cites information that contradicts the argument
> they're making in the hope of proving their case, right? *eyeroll*
>
>
> Jessica
>
> P.S. Just writing this and preparing to hit send, I have a knot in my
> stomach in anticipation of the possibility of a dumping of disproportionate
> vitriol in response. In this instance I choose to "feel the fear and do it
> anyway", because all too often silencing tactics work. If you've never had
> that anxiety-making feeling when about to fire off a fairly innocuous
> email, consider yourself lucky. (Or, as those pesky feminists would say,
> "privileged".)   ;-)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> linux-aus mailing list
> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au
> http://lists.linux.org.au/listinfo/linux-aus
>
>


-- 

Luke Martinez
me at luke.asia

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