[Linux-aus] Minutes of Council Meeting Face to Face, 2nd-3rd March 2013
Kathy Reid
kathy at kathyreid.id.au
Sun Mar 10 21:18:33 EST 2013
Hi Kylie,
Many thanks for such a comprehensive report.
Because the report was submitted on 4th March, we didn't receive it in
time to discuss at face to face and will instead discuss at our Council
teleconf on Thursday night.
Kind regards,
K.
On 10/03/2013 6:16 PM, Kylie Willison wrote:
> Hi Kathy
> Just wondering if my Regional Delegates Program report was tabled.
>
> Thanks, Kylie
>
>
> On 10/03/2013 4:59 PM, Kathy Reid wrote:
>> Hi everyone,
>> Please find below the minutes of the Council Face to Face meeting held
>> last weekend,
>> Kind regards,
>> Kathy
>>
>>
>> Minutes - Linux Australia Council Face to Face
>>
>> 2nd-3rd March 2013, Quest Docklands, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
>>
>> Meeting opened 0950hrs 2nd March
>>
>> Present: Mr Joshua ‘El Presidenté’ Hesketh, Mr Hugh Blemings, Mr
>> François Marier, Ms Kathy Reid, Mr Clinton Roy, Ms Bianca Gibson, Mr
>> Josh Stewart
>> All Council members were present and quorum was achieved.
>>
>> For clarity, Mr Joshua Hesketh is referred to as El Presidenté.
>> It was noted that this was against his will. El Presidenté’s wishes were
>> overriden by majority of the Council.
>>
>>
>> Action item summary
>>
>> * ACTION: Whitelist the members for the council email list so that we
>> don’t have to spend time moderating the Council email list
>> * ACTION: Kathy to get in contact with James Iseppi to figure out how
>> we get the LCA signup sheets into MemberDB.
>> * ACTION: We would like for subcommittees to have a spiel on their
>> website for people UPDATE from Kathy: This was around the
>> Subcommittees having something on their website to promote Linux
>> Australia membership - for instance where say WordCamp runs, we
>> want
>> WordCamp to have a link for people to sign up for Linux Australia
>> membership.
>> * ACTION: Kathy to check the constitution and make a decision and
>> approve foreign members if required.
>> ACTION COMPLETE - The constitution does not prevent foreign
>> citizens
>> being members of LA.
>> * ACTION: MemberDB needs to handle expired members. On the expiry
>> email that goes out, make it VERY CLEAR that it won’t remove people
>> from mailing lists, and tell people how to remove themselves.
>> * ACTION: MemberDB needs functionality for emailing members
>> * ACTION: We need someone to do announcing/posting to lists
>> * ACTION: Kathy to chat with Peter Lieverdink and James Polley to
>> identify way forward for making amendments to MemberDB to
>> facilitate
>> the expiry process
>> * ACTION: El Presidenté to import information into mailman from
>> MemberDB or vice versa. This action is postponed until members
>> renew
>> their membership to avoid annoying people.
>> * ACTION: MemberDB changes required to automate things. Until we have
>> that functionality in MemberDB, ensure all new members are added to
>> the announce mailing list manually.
>> * ACTION: Kathy to add the manual workaround to process documentation
>> * ACTION: Get a CSV export from Zookeepr from web team James
>> Iseppi to
>> add to announce mailing list.
>> * ACTION: Someone to add a statement to the mailing list subscription
>> page around proper conduct on the mailing lists.
>> http://lists.linux.org.au/listinfo
>> * ACTION: All Council members to become more familiar with the
>> constitution https://www.linux.org.au/constitution
>> * ACTION: Clinton to finish AGM Minutes
>> * ACTION: Once the AGM Minutes are finalised, someone to work with
>> John Ferlito and Terry to submit to office of fair trading
>> * ACTION: Someone to ensure Ghosts is being organised, currently with
>> LCA2014 Perth team
>> * ACTION: Set dates for the linux.conf.au 2015 bid process and
>> execute
>> the bid process by end of March. Now’s the time to start asking
>> questions and start reviewing, shortlisting and selecting.
>> * ACTION: El Presidenté to update the email that is sent to
>> Subcommittees regarding reporting to advise that the information is
>> made public on the Linux Australia webpage.
>> * ACTION: Follow up expressions of interest with potential
>> subcommittees to get them to formalise their actions and possibly
>> submit formal subcommittee formation requests.
>> * ACTION: Clinton to let LCA2014 know that it would be a good idea to
>> have a ZooKeepr keeperer.
>> * ACTION: El Presidenté to send credit card forms to Westpac
>> * ACTION: Kathy to organise business cards for Council members
>> * ACTION: Clinton to review previous grant request submissions to get
>> a better feel for which requests were approved and which ones were
>> denied to identify trends.
>> * ACTION: Francois to reimburse Leon Brooks for opensource.org.au
>> * ACTION: Steven Walsh to delegate this domain to linux.org.au
>> * ACTION: Josh and Francois to communicate with the Sydney Joomla
>> group and request a budget, and clarify that Linux Australia events
>> keeps the profit from events that are run under Linux Australia’s
>> auspices.
>> * ACTION: Josh and Francois are to request a budget from Tim Plummer
>> and the Sydney Joomla Day team
>> * ACTION: El Presidenté to chase monitoring mailing list for Alistair
>> Irvine
>> * ACTION: Clinton to speak with Shaun Nyquist to gather more details
>> about Shaun’s Vietnam travel grant request.
>> * ACTION: Mail needs to be redirected to Kathy. Kathy to send John
>> Ferlito her address.
>> * ACTION: Kathy to talk to Peter to sort out MemberDB initial
>> email so
>> it points to the right website for members to change their
>> password.
>> * ACTION: Kathy to talk to Peter about Google Analytics
>> * ACTION: Website refresh and hackfest. Will this be high value?
>> Defer
>> until we know what other action items are on our list.
>> * ACTION: Kathy to upload the Stakeholder Mapping drawing
>> * ACTION: The Media and Communications Subcommittee Charter needs to
>> be reviewed by Council, then the interested parties should propose
>> to Council to form the Media and Communications Subcommittee
>> * ACTION: Set up mailing list for Media and Communications
>> Subcommittee. Clinton to be the point of contact, Kathy to be on
>> the
>> mail list also
>> * ACTION: Get photos of Council Members
>> * ACTION: Photos of Council Members to go up on web page
>> http://linux.org.au/council
>> * ACTION: We need an FAQ for dealing with journalists and put it on
>> the website
>> * ACTION: We need to build a stakeholder picture of journalists to
>> get
>> a better picture of what they do, which area they work in. Would
>> this be a good thing to outsource to a PR company?
>> * ACTION: We need to understand what the community reads - there is a
>> touchpoint here with the upcoming member survey. What do members of
>> the open source community actually read. What do our prospective
>> members read?
>> * ACTION: Kathy to set up list of journalist and media contacts
>> * ACTION: Clinton to create a list of LUGs/tech mailing lists
>>
>>
>>
>> El Presidenté welcomed delegates and opened the meeting.
>>
>>
>> 1. Confirm accuracy of previous minutes of meeting 14 Feb 2013
>>
>> Moved as correct by El Presidenté, seconded Bianca, passed unanimously
>>
>>
>> 2. Review of previous action items
>>
>>
>> Moderation of requests to ctte at linux.org.au
>>
>> ACTION: Whitelist the members so that we don’t have to spend time
>> moderating the Council email list
>>
>>
>> Document travel agency details
>>
>> UPDATE: Documented on wiki, complete
>>
>>
>> 3. Items for discussion
>>
>>
>> Round table with blue sky vision thinking for Linux Australia
>>
>> The vision and activities the Council want to be working on this year
>> include;
>>
>> * Becoming more than just Linux and being the organisation that
>> represents open technology
>> * Becoming more involved in lobbying the government on open
>> technology
>> issues
>> * Supporting user groups and facilitating development and growth
>> there
>> * Extending the grants program and doing better outreach in this
>> space
>> * Enabling user groups and people to do cool things
>> * Making Linux Australia more relevant to people who are not
>> currently
>> members - and extending our reach beyond our current community
>> * Encouraging outreach to younger people and universities to get
>> people interested in Linux Australia who might not otherwise
>> want to
>> be involved. This also involves supporting other organisations that
>> are doing cool stuff, and including officially endorsing some
>> efforts by other organisations.
>> * Increasing our public profile and public voice - and be consulted
>> more on open technology issues.
>> * Fight against software patents and TPPA
>> * Better representing member needs - including running a member
>> survey
>> * Better defining the member lifecycle and targeting action at
>> different points in the lifecycle
>> * Run excellent conferences, but make sure the conferences don’t
>> conflict.
>> * We want to do better communication with stakeholders and the
>> stakeholder environment
>>
>>
>> The Council discussed the particular skills and attributes they bring to
>> the table and the roles they would like to play within the team.
>>
>>
>> SWOT Analysis
>>
>> Council undertook a SWOT analysis of strengths, weaknesses,
>> opportunities and threats to help guide and prioritise actions for the
>> year.
>>
>>
>> Memberships
>>
>> Discussion was held around how new members are approved.
>> ACTION: Kathy to get in contact with James Iseppi to figure out how we
>> get the LCA signup sheets into MemberDB.
>> ACTION: Subcommittees to have a spiel on their website for people
>> Discussion was held around whether people who are not Australian
>> citizens can be members of Linux Australia?
>> ACTION: Kathy to check the constitution and make a decision and approve
>> foreign members if required
>>
>> Discussion was held around cleaning up MemberDB. Points raised included
>> the lack of consistency between mailing lists and MemberDB, and
>> downsides of expiring members such as a reduced membership base.
>>
>> DECISION: It was decided that MemberDB would be cleaned up this year by
>> running an expiry process.
>>
>>
>> Membership tiers
>>
>> Discussion was held around whether Linux Australia needs different
>> membership tiers, possibly with paid memberships. There is no current
>> financial imperative to do this. Council was also mindful that if people
>> pay money to be a member of Linux Australia they will have higher
>> service expectations. The key reason for paid memberships would be to
>> allow people who want to make more of a contribution to be able to do
>> so. General consensus that paid membership tiers are not required at
>> this stage.
>>
>> MOTIONmoved by El Presidenté that we;
>> 1. Have a single free membership tier
>> 2. That memberships are expired/renewed annually via an online mechanism
>> before 1st October in accordance with Clause 4(e) of the Constitution
>> Seconded by François, carried unanimously
>>
>> It was noted that we need to ensure that we make memberships ‘inactive’
>> rather than removing them entirely in case membership data is completely
>> lost. Are there privacy principles that need to be upheld. This may need
>> to be researched in more depth. It was noted that this will require some
>> MemberDB changes.
>>
>> ACTION: MemberDB needs to handle expired members. On the expiry email
>> that goes out, make it VERY CLEAR that it won’t remove people from
>> mailing lists, and tell people how to remove themselves.
>> ACTION: MemberDB needs functionality for emailing members
>> ACTION: We need someone to do announcing/posting to lists
>> ACTION: Kathy to chat with Peter Lieverdink and James Polley to identify
>> way forward
>>
>>
>> Mailing lists
>>
>> It was agreed that there should be more correlation between MemberDB and
>> the mailing list. Any new member gets subscribed to la-announce - they
>> can unsubscribe and still be a member of LA. We need to ensure everyone
>> is a member to start with and then can unsubscribe if they want to be.
>> We discussed whether we should just have an la-members mailing list
>> which is consistent with MemberDB, but this created more overhead.
>>
>> It was agreed that we need a method to contact all members that is not
>> mailman dependent, and that we need to audit the mailing list and ensure
>> that every current member in MemberDB is on the announce mailing list,
>> and ensure that all new members are subscribed to the announce mailing
>> list, and that members may unsubscribe from mailing lists.
>>
>> ACTION: El Presidenté to import information from mailman to MemberDB or
>> vice versa
>> ACTION: MemberDB changes required to automate things. Until we have that
>> functionality in MemberDB, ensure all new members are added to the
>> announce mailing list annually
>> ACTION: Kathy to add the manual workaround to process documentation
>> ACTION: Get a CSV export from Zookeepr from web team James Iseppi to add
>> to announce mailing list.
>>
>> Council discussed mailing list policy, and whether we need a brief
>> statement on the mailing list subscription page to state we have the
>> ability to remove posts or ban members if content is inappropriate.
>> ACTION: Someone to add a statement to the mailing list subscription page
>> around this.
>> http://lists.linux.org.au/listinfo
>>
>> Council decided that we would wait until after membership expiry/renewal
>> before auditing the membership of the email list. It was noted that
>> privacy requirements are better for opt in than opt out - if people are
>> interested they will opt in. People who aren’t interested won’t know
>> about it.
>>
>>
>> Constitution
>>
>> Discussion was held on what value it adds to change it. A number of pros
>> and cons were debated, and it was decided to leave it ‘as is’ at the
>> moment.
>>
>> ACTION: All Council members to become more familiar with the
>> constitution
>> https://www.linux.org.au/constitution
>>
>>
>> AGM Minutes
>>
>> In progress.
>> ACTION: Clinton to finish AGM Minutes, work with John Ferlito and Terry
>> to submit to office of fair trading
>>
>>
>> linux.conf.au
>>
>>
>> LCA2013
>>
>>
>> Debrief is being planned for late March, getting dates is difficult.
>> Financial position is unknown at this time and will be confirmed during
>> debrief. Final accounts are not settled as yet. Discussions regarding
>> the venue - staff costs on top of the hall hire for ushering due to
>> legal requirements. B&G accommodation costs need to be sorted.
>>
>>
>> LCA2014
>>
>>
>> Ghosts will be held around the 27th April. Coming along nicely. Working
>> with venue around dates. Clinton will be the liaison, and other Ghosts
>> will be in attendance.
>>
>>
>> LCA2015
>>
>>
>> Expressions of interest have been received already, even without the
>> call for Expressions of Interest going out.
>>
>> ACTION: Set dates for the linux.conf.au 2015 bid process and execute the
>> bid process by end of March. Now’s the time to start asking questions
>> and start reviewing, shortlisting and selecting.
>>
>>
>> Subcommittees
>>
>>
>> Admin team
>>
>> Admin team report filed in November. Admin team don’t need to report too
>> often. Hosting agreement under negotiation.
>>
>>
>> linux.conf.au
>>
>> Last report by 2013 filed in July, good to get an update from them at
>> Ghosts
>>
>>
>> Newcastle LUG
>>
>> Filed a report in September. No activity to report.
>>
>>
>> Mirror team
>>
>> Michael Still is leaving the Mirror Team. Council noted his excellent
>> contributions to date. Under control at the moment, team can do a call
>> for participation if required. Next report end of May.
>>
>>
>> PyconAu
>>
>> Reporting set to bimonthly. Planning going well for 2013.
>>
>>
>> Webteam
>>
>> Last report March 2012, next report due March 2013.
>>
>>
>> WordCampMelbourne
>>
>> Reporting set to bimonthly.
>>
>>
>> Retired subcommittees
>>
>> Council reviewed a number of retired subcommittees. Discussion held
>> around putting in previous subcommittees to Drupal, and whether to put
>> old ones in so we have a historical record. Discussion around who is
>> responsible for checking reports. Council is happy for events to run as
>> Subcommittees.
>>
>> Discussion around multiple bids for the same event. Process is generally
>> if you want to run one, check in with the LA Council, so that we know
>> about it and can determine objectively.
>> Another way to do this is to have an Events Subcommittee made up of
>> Ghosts of previous events to provide advice to Council. Designed to
>> produce successful conference - and say advise on who should run the
>> next conference. Do we have a subcommittee that parents subcommittees -
>> ie all of them. As long as it was understood that they are
>> recommendations and that Council could override. Have we reached the
>> point where we actually need this? Council decided this was not yet
>> required.
>>
>>
>> Subcommittee budgeting
>>
>> Discussion around budgeting to break even on a per-person basis without
>> sponsorship, and then as sponsors come on board add in extra schwag and
>> benefits for the event. This should be a key principle of funding
>> events. PyconAu has been very good in valuing exactly different
>> sponsorship deals.
>>
>>
>> Subcommittee process
>>
>> Subcommittee policy is documented at
>> https://www.linux.org.au/policies/sub-committee
>> Discussion around whether we have any issues with current Subcommittee
>> process, and tracking activities of subcommittee. Discussion around the
>> reports from Subcommittee and whether we’re still happy for them to go
>> straight to the Linux Australia home page.
>>
>> Feed of subcommittee reports is at;
>> http://linux.org.au/subcommittees/reports/feed
>>
>> ACTION: El Presidenté to update the email that is sent to Subcommittees
>> regarding reporting to advise that the information is made public on the
>> Linux Australia webpage.
>>
>>
>> Review of potential subcommittees
>>
>> ACTION: Follow up expressions of interest with potential subcommittees
>> to get them to formalise their actions and possibly submit formal
>> subcommittee formation requests.
>>
>> ACTION: Let LCA2014 know that it would be a good idea to have a ZooKeepr
>> keeperer.
>>
>>
>> Insurance
>>
>> Insurance definitely covers subcommittees
>>
>>
>> Budget, banks, finance and treasury
>>
>> Council was informed of the expenses policy
>> http://linux.org.au/policies/expense
>>
>> Expense claims should be logged with Treasurer, Francois.
>>
>> Although LA is in a strong financial position, it’s going to be a tight
>> year financially. No specific action is required currently to address
>> this, we just need to be aware of this when deliberating financial
>> decisions. We have sufficient reserves currently without curtailing
>> grants or other expenditures.
>>
>>
>> Credit cards
>>
>>
>> * Francois needs one
>> * Kathy needs one
>>
>>
>> ACTION: El presidenté to send the credit card forms to Westpac
>>
>>
>> Sponsorships, donations and grants
>>
>> General feeling to prefer grants over donations - so that there is a
>> return on the investment. Discussion around outreach around getting more
>> donation requests - something simple like just having business cards
>> available so that you can provide contact details when say you’re at a
>> conference.
>>
>> ACTION: To organise business cards for Council members
>>
>> Discussion held around whether we should we review previous grants?
>> There is a grants page on the site at;
>> http://linux.org.au/projects/grants. Council also discussed whether we
>> should focus on more grants this year due to our strong financial
>> position.
>>
>> ACTION: Clinton to review previous travel and study submissions to get a
>> better feel for which requests were approved and which ones were denied
>> to identify trends.
>>
>>
>> Documentation and processes
>>
>> ACTION: Mail needs to be redirected to Kathy. Kathy to send John Ferlito
>> her address.
>>
>> Utbox - fax to email - provided free
>> Council noted their thanks to Utbox for provision of this service.
>>
>> ACTION: Kathy to talk to Peter to sort out MemberDB initial email so it
>> points to the right website for members to change their password.
>>
>>
>> Outreach
>>
>> DECISION: Regarding Eventifier - each event to make own decision, we
>> will not provide as an umbrella service.
>>
>> ACTION: Kathy to talk to Peter about Google Analytics
>> ACTION: Website refresh and hackfest. Will this be high value? Defer
>> until we know what other action items are on our list.
>>
>>
>> Evangelism
>>
>> Discussion around what activities we want to do here. We shouldn’t aim
>> to do a million things. We can publish on the mailing lists about what
>> we do and cross-pollinate things.
>>
>>
>> Stakeholder mapping
>>
>> The Council mapped key stakeholders in and around the community in terms
>> of importance and influence and prioritised according to the amount of
>> effort that should be spent engaging the stakeholders. We prioritised
>> the effort that should be spent engaging various stakeholders based on
>> influence and importance.
>> ACTION: Kathy to upload the Stakeholder Mapping drawing to Council
>> docs area
>>
>>
>> Media and Communications Subcommittee
>>
>> Discussion around the Media and Communications Subcommittee Charter and
>> how this Subcommittee adds value to Council. They could assist in
>> writing promotional material. We would need to ensure the integrity of
>> communications sent out in our name. We discussed whether the
>> Subcommittee could produce a newsletter each month and maintain a list
>> of journalist and user group contacts. Council could then fill the gaps
>>
>> ACTION: The Charter needs to be reviewed by Council, then the interested
>> parties should propose to Council to form the Media and Communications
>> Subcommittee
>>
>> ACTION: Set up mailing list for Media and Communications Subcommittee.
>> Clinton to be the point of contact, Kathy to be on the mail list also
>>
>> Council welcomed Brianna Laugher as the contact for the Media and
>> Communications Subcommittee. We discussed having a monthly newsletter.
>> Expectations of the Media and Communications Subcommittee were
>> discussed, noting the amount of work that could possibly be involved,
>> and needing to constrain this.
>>
>> The draft charter for the Media SubCommittee was reviewed.
>> http://wiki.linux.org.au/Roles_and_things
>>
>> Council discussed the role of Media SubCommittee
>>
>> * Newsletter
>> * Press releases
>> * Maintaining a list of journalists
>> * Maintaining a list of mailing lists
>> * Maintaining a list of Calls for Papers
>> * Sourcing feedback from the community
>> * Assisting with Social Media - Twitter, Facebook.
>>
>>
>> Council discussed some of the the things that could be in the Newsletter
>>
>> * Calls for Papers
>> * Upcoming events
>> * Highlights of blogs and social media posts
>> * LUG of the month
>> * Podcast of the month
>> * Links to the minutes
>> * Links to videos of confs
>> * Highlight community member / interview
>> * NO CLIPART!
>>
>>
>> MOTION: Kathy moved that the Media and Communications Subcommittee be
>> instantiated based on the current charter. Seconded by Bianca, passed
>> unanimously.
>>
>> ACTION: El Presidenté to give Brianna access to the Media Portal on
>> the Wiki
>> ACTION: El Presidenté to set up reporting for the Media and
>> Communications Subcommittee on Drupal
>> ACTION: Kathy to set up list of journalist and media contacts
>> ACTION: Clinton to create a list of LUGs/tech mailing lists
>>
>>
>> 4. Review of correspondence
>>
>>
>> opensource.org.au (Leon Brooks)
>>
>> ACTION: Francois to reimburse Leon Brooks
>> ACTION: Steven Walsh to delegate this domain to linux.org.au
>>
>>
>> AV Co-ordinators report
>>
>> Report was thorough. El Presidenté has thanked Paul for his report. No
>> further action required on this matter.
>>
>>
>> Subcommittee request for Sydney Joomla Group from Tim Plummer
>>
>> Request was approved in principle, some further information is required
>> to progress.
>> ACTION: Josh and Francois to communicate with the Sydney Joomla group
>> and request a budget, and clarify that Linux Australia events keeps the
>> profit from events that are run under Linux Australia’s auspices.
>> ACTION: Josh and Francois are to request a budget from Tim Plummer
>> and team
>>
>>
>> Request for monitoring mailing list from Alistair Irvine
>>
>> Request for mailing list approved
>> ACTION: El Presidenté to chase monitoring mailing list for Alistair
>> Irvine
>>
>>
>> Request for Vietnam Open Source Training from Shaun Nyquist
>>
>> Grants policy requires that members have two weeks to provide feedback.
>> DECISION: Council will defer decision until members have had an
>> opportunity to provide feedback in line with Grants policy. Decision to
>> be made at next teleconf.
>> ACTION: Clinton to speak with Shaun Nyquist to gather more details about
>> the request
>>
>>
>> Sponsorship request from BarCampMelbourne from Ben Dechrai
>>
>> Request withdrawn, no further action required.
>>
>>
>> 5. Media training
>>
>>
>> Council welcomed Brad Howarth as the Media Trainer for the day. Brad
>> provided his very accomplished career background in technology
>> journalism. Brad is driven by wanting to help people become interesting
>> storytellers, so helps people articulate technology stories and the
>> passion behind them. He has a very strong media training background.
>>
>> http://au.linkedin.com/in/bhowarth
>>
>> Council received a presentation from Brad around how to deal with the
>> Media, advice for working with journalists, and participated in mock
>> interview training. Consensus this was good value.
>>
>> ACTION: Get photos of Council Members
>> ACTION: Photos of Council Members to go up on web page
>> http://linux.org.au/council
>> ACTION: We need an FAQ for dealing with journalists and put it on the
>> website
>> ACTION: We need to build a stakeholder picture of journalists to get a
>> better picture of what they do, which area they work in. Would this be a
>> good thing to outsource to a PR company?
>> ACTION: We need to understand what the community reads - there is a
>> touchpoint here with the upcoming member survey. What do members of the
>> open source community actually read. What do our prospective members
>> read?
>>
>>
>> 6. Deferred
>>
>> * Awards
>> * Member survey
>> * Member services
>>
>>
>> MEETING CLOSED 1730hrs 3rd March
>> NEXT MEETING via teleconference Thursday 15th March 1945hrs
>>
>>
>> 7. Matters discussed in camera
>>
>> Five matters were discussed in camera, and cannot be made public at this
>> time due to the need for privacy and confidentiality.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> linux-aus mailing list
>> linux-aus at lists.linux.org.au
>> http://lists.linux.org.au/listinfo/linux-aus
>>
>
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