[Linux-aus] Political Recognition for Technology in Australia - was Re: Seeking feedback - EFA Citizens Not Suspects campaign

[Scott Ferguson]

On 30/06/13 10:21, Russell Coker wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Jun 2013, Russell Stuart <russell-linuxaus at stuart.id.au> wrote:
>> On Fri, 2013-06-28 at 17:24 +1000, Russell Coker wrote:
<snipped>

>>> The majority of the urban Australian population don't see any need for
>>> the type of net access that people on this list want and won't pay any
>>> extra for it.
>>
>> Did you pull that little factoid from the air?  I don't see how you
>> could know what the majority of the urban Australian population want.  I
>> don't.  I do know from polling most of them say they want the NBN, but
>> that's not the same thing.
> 
> A significant portion of the urban population are quite happy with ADSL or 
> cable net access.  If they are forced to switch to the NBN that doesn't equate 
> to choosing to pay more for the NBN.  There's also a significant number of 
> people who just don't need to transfer a lot of data.  People who just read 
> email and do casual web browsing.

Don't watch movies and listen to the radio *only* over internet? (not
everyone gets great reception - or wants a house full of devices).
Don't have home automation and security?
Childless and no friends, so don't do a lot of video VOIP calls, and
aren't inundated daily with emails with lots of thoughtlessly large
images attached of their grand and great grand children?
Run multiple devices e.g. laptop/netbook/desktops and phones, and pads -
all of which download not insignificant amounts of data?
Travel and take large amounts of high resolution video and images - all
of which moves across that home connection at some point?
I "suspect" the majority of 70+ year olds I know, who all do all of the
above are *not* outliers. And my experience is that they have no desire
to sign up for a Kogan plan (little phones with touch screens aren't fun
for the elderly).

I could point out the needs of those on farms much further from towns
(than I), and their families, or the towns that bleed young people
because there is no decent internet upon which to build local business.
Even if you ignore the business, *educational*, and, social needs of
places other than the heart of Melbourne or Sydney - not having decent
internet throughout Australia *costs* the taxpayer money. Disclaimer -
those are my opinions, others may believe everyone should either live in
a large city or move to mines in the NT because to do otherwise is an
unsupportable indulgence.

NOTE: farmers want *much* more internet than city folk. And we don't
give a toss about gun control issues either. Try speaking to help desk
operators at any given ISP for a more realistic picture of what people want.

> 
> I don't think

...

> that the *majority of the population do any significant porn* 
> *downloads or torrent transfers*.

I live less than 5km from the GPO in the *capital* of this country.
I *cannot* get ADSL.
I *cannot* get reliable 3G (av. latency is >300ms).
I'm definitely not unique.

I do not download porn.  But I 'would' say that wouldn't I...
I do use bittorrent.  But I don't use it for breaching US copyright
laws. Just git, GNU/Linux, and other non-illegal, non-pornographic
material. Insinuating that anyone wanting large volumes of always on,
low latency, high bandwidth internet is a thieving degenerate does your
argument no favours.

If I spent all my time around fast food outlets I 'might' believe
Australia was solely populated by the obese, ignorant, racially bigoted,
misogynistic, cognitively and socially impaired, and greedy... and I'd
be wrong. It's easy to make the same emotionally biased mistake about
internet consumption. The majority of consumption != the consumption of
the majority, or have any relationship to what people would consume *if*
they had free choice.

Oh, and I run a business, and part of those needs includes a local
Debian mirror... but mostly, like many - my usage is limited by what's
available. Certainly I know of many who would move further away from the
city if they could get the bandwidth. And many who do live further away
and would start home based business - if they could get (affordable)
bandwidth.

I suspect most of us prefer the idea of fibre, but instead of debating
the management of it's implementation we've been suckered into a
pointless debate about fibre over wire, based on pie in the sky
estimates.  For my 2c one plan has management with a track record I
wouldn't trust to steal garbage, and I don't know who'll manage the
alternative.


<snipped>


Regards, Scott Ferguson