[Linux-aus] Re: [Osia-discuss] Re: ATO - Software Compatibility

Sat Feb 4 06:45:02 UTC 2006

Can you run the software under GCJ?

andrew

On 2/3/06, Alex Ferrara <alex at receptiveit.com.au> wrote:
> Not sure if you guys know about this, but the ATO have submitted
> instructions on getting their java based CSI working under linux, and it
> is really easy. As a business owner, I can now do anything I need using
> the business portal native under linux. You can look at
> http://itmaze.com.au/articles/ato/ for a good document on that.
>
> I am pretty sure that the ECI is written in java, but was written for
> MS-JAVA, and therefore not compatible with sun java. Since MS-JAVA is no
> longer distributable, there must be something in the pipeline to write
> this using some standard.
>
> As far as the e-tax software, it works fine under wine. The trick is to
> install IE under wine so it can actually submit a completed return.
>
> aF
>
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > On Thu, Nov 17, 2005 at 11:03:43PM +1030, David Lloyd wrote:
> >
> >
> >>>When asked...
> >>>"Do you believe that the Australian Taxation Office's Windows-Only
> >>>policy is a roadblock to the adoption of open source in Australia?"
> >>>72% of respondents to OSIA's industry survey said Yes.
> >>
> >>Yeah, and any competent statistician would be able throw that statistic
> >>out the window. That's beside the point.
> >
> >
> > ???
> >
> > Are you suggesting that 72% of respondents *didn't* say Yes?
> >
> >
> >
> >>What does your company do? Clearly it's not development or you wouldn't
> >>make such bizarre statements as "I doubt it would cost the ATO much to
> >>provide a linux ECI client".
> >>
> >>How about:
> >>
> >> * testing time
> >> * regression testing time
> >> * project management
> >> * extra support (considering there's six trillion linuxes vs 3 Windows
> >>   and 1-2 OS X)
> >
> >
> > I think that, in general, if Linux users trusted the ATO to give us a fair
> > go and make an honest attempt at writing a Linux compatible client, we'd
> > be satisfied with support for one distro only (Red Hat probably), or even
> > no support at all.
> >
> > "We've done our best, here it is, now you're on your own" would be
> > satisfactory to many people if we thought that ATO really had done their
> > best and not just cobbled together a broken piece of junk so they can
> > claim they tried.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>Not to mention that others have pointed out that it is possible to write
> >>Java code which is specific to a particular platform or platforms.
> >
> >
> > With sufficient time, ingenuity and expense, it is possible to create a
> > grey-lead pencil that will only write if held at precisely thirty degrees
> > from the horizontal.
> >
> > I suggest the question is not "Is it possible to write platform-specific
> > Java code?" but "How hard is it to write platform-independent Java code
> > compared to platform-dependent code?", and according to my Java
> > developers, the answer to that question is "Not especially hard".
> >
> > That's not to say that we will get anywhere by publically telling the ATO
> > their developers (or more likely, sub-contractors) are a bunch of luser
> > Windows weenies who can't write decent code and aren't using best
> > practice. Even if it is true.
> >
> > But we are free to think it among ourselves. Especially if it is true
> > *wink*
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>I have a product written in RealBasic which in theory should be portable
> >>to Windows (it's an OS X product). Yeah, it displays but it certainly
> >>doesn't do ANYTHING it's meant to do...
> >
> >
> > But it does do *something* it is meant to do: it is meant to display, and
> > it does that.
> >
> > But seriously, is there relevance to that factoid? We all know that a
> > sufficiently bad developer can write platform-dependent code even with a
> > platform-independent language, and some languages that claim to be
> > platform agnostic are actually not.
> >
> > The question isn't whether or not it is feasible to expect your RB app to
> > work under Windows -- without knowing what the app does, that is
> > impossible to answer -- but whether it is feasible to expect the ATO's EDI
> > Client to work cross-platform. Nothing I've seen suggests to me that it
> > isn't feasible.
> >
> >
> >
> >>So let's drop the "It's easy part" and start to give them a reason to
> >>help us. Putting it bluntly it would be EASIER FOR THE ATO TO NOT
> >>COLLECT TAXES AT ALL (think of the money they'd save not having to
> >>process tax returns); they've said it's not easy so let's just accept
> >>the fact it's not.
> >
> >
> > But in fact they do have a Linux version, which they trialled, and they
> > were innundated with folks wanting to trial it. That demonstrates both
> > demand and supply.
> >
> >
> >
> >>Noone who programs cross platform ANYTHING says it is easy, so why are
> >>we presuming this ECI (garbage) is?
> >
> >
> > That depends on what you mean by "easy", and what your software does. I've
> > written dozens of Python scripts that will run on any platform which has
> > Python. That's not the same thing, I understand that, but you've got to
> > learn not to make sweeping generalisations around here :-)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>Concentrate on what the ATO thinks is the main concern: THEY DON'T HAVE
> >>A KNOWN MARKET FOR IT. Whether or not it is "easy" to port or not is
> >>beside the point - that's not addressing their concerns.
> >
> >
> > That's a good point. There are a number of ways of doing that.
> >
> > Firstly, the ATO has inertia on their side. Even though they have a
> > (partially/mostly) working Linux client, they won't want to do anything
> > with it unless they know there is demand. Lots of demand.
> >
> > We need to politely tell them we want to use it, and then we want to
> > actually use it.
> >
> > Secondly, we want to make them understand that the average Linux user has
> > a far higher level of technical expertise than they are used to. They will
> > not be getting terribly many calls asking "Where is the any key?". That's
> > both good and bad, because it means fewer support calls but the ones that
> > come in won't be fixed by the usual "restart, reboot, reinstall". But in
> > our favour, Linux users are more likely to provide good quality
> > information to the ATO, making bugs easier to track down.
> >
> > Thirdly, there is another option. It probably isn't one bureaucrats will
> > like, but you never know... we, by which I mean some group of volunteers,
> > could potentially volunteer to support the Linux EDI client for the ATO.
> > Of course they are subcontracting out the client already, but only the
> > Windows and Mac versions. We could take on the burden of technical support
> > for a nominal fee during a trial period, because _we_want_a_Linux_client_
> > and that's the only way to get it.
> >
> > That's the rub: is there anyone here who wants a Linux EDI client badly
> > enough to support it themselves?
> >
> > Question: will the Windows client run under WINE?
> >
> > Ultimately, we want the ATO to stop treating Linux users as third-class
> > citizens. That's a chicken-and-egg problem: they won't take us seriously
> > until we're significantly in their radar, and we won't be in their radar
> > until they take us seriously.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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Andrew Donnellan
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http://ajdlinux.blogspot.com
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