From conz@cyber.com.au Mon Jul 14 11:21:03 2003 Received: from plum.cyber.com.au (plum.cyber.com.au [203.7.155.24]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.12.9/8.12.9/Debian-3) with ESMTP id h6E3KXoi028710 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:21:02 +0800 Received: from vanilla.office.cyber.com.au (vanilla.office.cyber.com.au [192.168.155.226]) by plum.cyber.com.au (8.8.6/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA10056 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:20:33 +1000 (EST) Received: by vanilla.office.cyber.com.au (Postfix, from userid 1001) id CC45057BADD; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:20:32 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:20:32 +1000 From: Con Zymaris To: enterprise-linux@lists.linux.org.au Message-ID: <20030714032032.GB3534@cyber.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Subject: [Enterprise-linux] Linux users rate stability over TCO Sender: enterprise-linux-admin@lists.linux.org.au Errors-To: enterprise-linux-admin@lists.linux.org.au X-BeenThere: enterprise-linux@lists.linux.org.au X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Greetings list. let's get some action happening on here, shall we? http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,6749366%5E15306%5E%5Enbv%5E,00.html MICROSOFT'S attempts to convince enterprises that Linux will prove more costly to manage are falling on deaf ears, a new survey has found. Enterprise Linux users are far more enamoured of its reliability than its ability to lower total cost of ownership (TCO), the poll of enterprise customers by Computer Associates concluded. -- _____________________________________________________________________________ Con Zymaris Level 4, 10 Queen St, Melbourne 03 9621 2377 Cybersource: Unix/Linux, TCP/IP and Web App. Development www.cyber.com.au From paul@gear.dyndns.org Tue Jul 15 04:41:35 2003 Received: from gear01.gear.dyndns.org (CPE-203-45-172-117.qld.bigpond.net.au [203.45.172.117]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.12.9/8.12.9/Debian-3) with ESMTP id h6EKeroi009617 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 04:41:34 +0800 Received: from gear.dyndns.org (enoch.gear.dyndns.org [10.199.1.7]) by gear01.gear.dyndns.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h6EKekB13518 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 06:40:46 +1000 Message-ID: <3F131546.1090704@gear.dyndns.org> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 06:40:38 +1000 From: Paul Gear User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20030225 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: enterprise-linux@lists.linux.org.au Subject: Re: [Enterprise-linux] Linux users rate stability over TCO References: <20030714032032.GB3534@cyber.com.au> In-Reply-To: <20030714032032.GB3534@cyber.com.au> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.71.0.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig7F9D38213FA6FB00F7F82C4B" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) Sender: enterprise-linux-admin@lists.linux.org.au Errors-To: enterprise-linux-admin@lists.linux.org.au X-BeenThere: enterprise-linux@lists.linux.org.au X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig7F9D38213FA6FB00F7F82C4B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Con Zymaris wrote: > Greetings list. > > let's get some action happening on here, shall we? Why not? ... > http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,6749366%5E15306%5E%5Enbv%5E,00.html > > MICROSOFT'S attempts to convince enterprises that Linux will prove more > costly to manage are falling on deaf ears, a new survey has found. > > Enterprise Linux users are far more enamoured of its reliability than its > ability to lower total cost of ownership (TCO), the poll of enterprise > customers by Computer Associates concluded. Very interesting article. Personally, i value my freedom more than reliability or TCO, but TCO is certainly less important than many factors. -- Paul http://paulgear.webhop.net --------------enig7F9D38213FA6FB00F7F82C4B Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/ExVO0yv0OWRYqWwRAnlvAJ42MjSYuf18B1ZLaykI0ObYzBzcFwCaAzjj gyJ8ornVrw/+tSpKbni6Yq8= =Q187 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig7F9D38213FA6FB00F7F82C4B-- From conz@cyber.com.au Wed Jul 16 09:54:38 2003 Received: from plum.cyber.com.au (plum.cyber.com.au [203.7.155.24]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.12.9/8.12.9/Debian-3) with ESMTP id h6G1s3oi003959 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:54:38 +0800 Received: from vanilla.office.cyber.com.au (vanilla.office.cyber.com.au [192.168.155.226]) by plum.cyber.com.au (8.8.6/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA25449; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:53:55 +1000 (EST) Received: by vanilla.office.cyber.com.au (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 9CF4F57BADD; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:53:54 +1000 (EST) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:53:54 +1000 From: Con Zymaris To: Paul Gear Cc: enterprise-linux@lists.linux.org.au Subject: Re: [Enterprise-linux] Linux users rate stability over TCO Message-ID: <20030716015354.GW26076@cyber.com.au> References: <20030714032032.GB3534@cyber.com.au> <3F131546.1090704@gear.dyndns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3F131546.1090704@gear.dyndns.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: enterprise-linux-admin@lists.linux.org.au Errors-To: enterprise-linux-admin@lists.linux.org.au X-BeenThere: enterprise-linux@lists.linux.org.au X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: On Tue, Jul 15, 2003 at 06:40:38AM +1000, Paul Gear wrote: > Con Zymaris wrote: > > Greetings list. > > > > let's get some action happening on here, shall we? > > Why not? ... > > > http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,6749366%5E15306%5E%5Enbv%5E,00.html > > > > MICROSOFT'S attempts to convince enterprises that Linux will prove more > > costly to manage are falling on deaf ears, a new survey has found. > > > > Enterprise Linux users are far more enamoured of its reliability than its > > ability to lower total cost of ownership (TCO), the poll of enterprise > > customers by Computer Associates concluded. > > Very interesting article. Personally, i value my freedom more than > reliability or TCO, but TCO is certainly less important than many factors. indeed. But we need to 'translate' our concept of freedom into something more easily recognisable and digestable by business and corporates. -- _____________________________________________________________________________ Con Zymaris Level 4, 10 Queen St, Melbourne 03 9621 2377 Cybersource: Unix/Linux, TCP/IP and Web App. Development www.cyber.com.au From conz@cyber.com.au Wed Jul 16 15:14:06 2003 Received: from plum.cyber.com.au (plum.cyber.com.au [203.7.155.24]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.12.9/8.12.9/Debian-3) with ESMTP id h6G7Deoi006465 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:14:06 +0800 Received: from vanilla.office.cyber.com.au (vanilla.office.cyber.com.au [192.168.155.226]) by plum.cyber.com.au (8.8.6/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA28220 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:13:40 +1000 (EST) Received: by vanilla.office.cyber.com.au (Postfix, from userid 1001) id BF12957BADD; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:13:39 +1000 (EST) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:13:39 +1000 From: Con Zymaris To: enterprise-linux@lists.linux.org.au Message-ID: <20030716071339.GA13815@cyber.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Subject: [Enterprise-linux] News clippsings Sender: enterprise-linux-admin@lists.linux.org.au Errors-To: enterprise-linux-admin@lists.linux.org.au X-BeenThere: enterprise-linux@lists.linux.org.au X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Morton: The Linux kernel is no place for 'self-expressive fancy' http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php?id=1546887162&fp=16&fpid=0 Linus on SCO, Microsoft http://www.itnews.com.au/storycontent.cfm?ID=8&Art_ID=12405 Linux founder Linus Torvalds and various executives spoke out on the future of Linux, ongoing litigation with the SCO Group and dealings with Microsoft at a mini Linux conference in Vegas. Summit to focus on next Linux kernel http://www.itnews.com.au/storycontent.cfm?ID=10&Art_ID=12411 With the Linux kernel 2.6 reaching production phase, technical priorities for the next Linux kernel will be the topic of discussion at a summit next week. -- _____________________________________________________________________________ Con Zymaris Level 4, 10 Queen St, Melbourne 03 9621 2377 Cybersource: Unix/Linux, TCP/IP and Web App. Development www.cyber.com.au From conz@cyber.com.au Thu Jul 17 08:15:41 2003 Received: from plum.cyber.com.au (plum.cyber.com.au [203.7.155.24]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.12.9/8.12.9/Debian-3) with ESMTP id h6H0F8oi018454 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:15:41 +0800 Received: from vanilla.office.cyber.com.au (vanilla.office.cyber.com.au [192.168.155.226]) by plum.cyber.com.au (8.8.6/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA03347; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:14:35 +1000 (EST) Received: by vanilla.office.cyber.com.au (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 3508A57BADD; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:14:35 +1000 (EST) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:14:35 +1000 From: Con Zymaris To: linux-aus@linux.org.au Cc: enterprise-linux@lists.linux.org.au, osv-list@lists.osv.org.au Message-ID: <20030717001435.GC26076@cyber.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Subject: [Enterprise-linux] National Open Source Industry Cluster Sender: enterprise-linux-admin@lists.linux.org.au Errors-To: enterprise-linux-admin@lists.linux.org.au X-BeenThere: enterprise-linux@lists.linux.org.au X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: [please note cross-posting...] Members on OSV's list have proposed and have started discussing the possibility of a national open source industry body. I'd like to raise this with the members of this forum for opinion solicitation and response. Specifically, what we have considered can be distilled into the following core points of what such an organisation would do: 1) Focus primarily on thefor-profit aspects of Open Source. (We do not need, nor do we want to cross-over existing boundaries of organisations such as the state LUGs, Linux Australia, AUUG, SAGE-AU etc.) 2) Focus on business, government and educational sector adoption of FOSS 3) Focus on boosting member firms' ability to compete in the wider IT industry. (Most industry-cluster members are businesses.) 4) Act as a national co-ordinator for the various existing and forthcoming state-based Open Source industry clusters. What we _don't_ want such an organisation to do: 1) Act as a technically-oriented user group or guild. This work is done well by the aforementioned organisations. 2) Be seen to be a technically-oriented user group or club. 3) Be Linux-specific. As an example, OSV has many members which are pro-BSD, pro-Perl, Zope etc, whilst not using Linux per se. There are probably other do's and don'ts, but we can debate these. As for membership, I suspect this putative group may draw members primarily from the existing and forthcoming state-based FOSS industry clusters. Perhaps each state-based group could nominate a few people to help maintain and co-ordinate this national group. Anyways, for those who don't know me, I like things nice and informal, thus this nice and informal proposal. If enough people think this is a worthwhile and needed entity that can actually add real value above and beyond the structures which already exist, step forward. If you see danger ahead with this path, state your reasons. Leon, perhaps you can relay this to the appropriate SLPWA forum for further comments. -- _____________________________________________________________________________ Con Zymaris Level 4, 10 Queen St, Melbourne 03 9621 2377 Cybersource: Unix/Linux, TCP/IP and Web App. Development www.cyber.com.au From conz@cyber.com.au Thu Jul 17 08:51:20 2003 Received: from plum.cyber.com.au (plum.cyber.com.au [203.7.155.24]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.12.9/8.12.9/Debian-3) with ESMTP id h6H0oooi022655 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:51:19 +0800 Received: from vanilla.office.cyber.com.au (vanilla.office.cyber.com.au [192.168.155.226]) by plum.cyber.com.au (8.8.6/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA03617 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:50:50 +1000 (EST) Received: by vanilla.office.cyber.com.au (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 0CFA557BADD; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:50:50 +1000 (EST) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:50:49 +1000 From: Con Zymaris To: enterprise-linux@lists.linux.org.au Message-ID: <20030717005049.GE26075@cyber.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Subject: [Enterprise-linux] Useful whitepaper site Sender: enterprise-linux-admin@lists.linux.org.au Errors-To: enterprise-linux-admin@lists.linux.org.au X-BeenThere: enterprise-linux@lists.linux.org.au X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/filters/itdtoolkit/0,15209,6024299,00.html#two Linux Toolkit - Make the case for Open Source - Prepare for deployment - Support Linux after rollout -- _____________________________________________________________________________ Con Zymaris Level 4, 10 Queen St, Melbourne 03 9621 2377 Cybersource: Unix/Linux, TCP/IP and Web App. Development www.cyber.com.au From aj@azure.humbug.org.au Thu Jul 17 18:43:08 2003 Received: from azure (mail@azure.erisian.com.au [64.235.236.133]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.12.9/8.12.9/Debian-3) with ESMTP id h6HAgZoi021757 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:43:07 +0800 Received: from aj by azure with local-bsmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19d6Da-0006Kq-02 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 20:42:34 +1000 Received: from aj by cyan with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 19d3mC-0005Xz-00; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:06:08 +1000 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:06:08 +1000 To: linux-aus@linux.org.au, enterprise-linux@lists.linux.org.au, osv-list@lists.osv.org.au Message-ID: <20030717080608.GA21262@azure.humbug.org.au> Mail-Followup-To: linux-aus@linux.org.au, enterprise-linux@lists.linux.org.au, osv-list@lists.osv.org.au References: <20030717001435.GC26076@cyber.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="gKMricLos+KVdGMg" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030717001435.GC26076@cyber.com.au> Organisation: Lacking X-PGP: http://azure.humbug.org.au/~aj/aj_key.asc X-No-CC: Don't Cc me to mailing list posts unless you really have to Mail-Copies-To: nobody User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i From: Anthony Towns Subject: [Enterprise-linux] Re: [Linux-aus] National Open Source Industry Cluster Sender: enterprise-linux-admin@lists.linux.org.au Errors-To: enterprise-linux-admin@lists.linux.org.au X-BeenThere: enterprise-linux@lists.linux.org.au X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: --gKMricLos+KVdGMg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 10:14:35AM +1000, Con Zymaris wrote: > [please note cross-posting...] [cross posted right back at ya] > Specifically, what we have considered can be distilled into the following= =20 > core points of what such an organisation would do: > 1) Focus primarily on thefor-profit aspects of Open Source. (We do not= =20 > need, nor do we want to cross-over existing boundaries of organisations= =20 > such as the state LUGs, Linux Australia, AUUG, SAGE-AU etc.) > 2) Focus on business, government and educational sector adoption of FOSS > 3) Focus on boosting member firms' ability to compete in the wider IT=20 > industry. (Most industry-cluster members are businesses.) > 4) Act as a national co-ordinator for the various existing and=20 > forthcoming state-based Open Source industry clusters. > There are probably other do's and don'ts, but we can debate these. Sounds fair. What activities do you see the organisation doing? Organising vendor-agnostic advertising programs? Maybe having a newsletter or conference or similar focussed on non-technical open source issues (issues like management, and advertising, licensing, fitting in with the community without going non-profit, accounting, etc)? Holding a tradeshow? Providing sample contracts and licenses and other legal advice for hiring programmers to work on free software, or to work on proprietary software without getting in the way of them doing free software hacking at home? Having regular meetings and talks in capital cities? Something els= e? I presume union-esque things (like providing assistance to hackers who're getting screwed over by their employee) are out of scope (the members will = be the businesses doing the screwing over, no?). Is there some particular list we should shift the discussion to? Cheers, aj --=20 Anthony Towns I don't speak for anyone save myself. GPG signed mail preferred. ``Is this some kind of psych test? Am I getting paid for this?'' --gKMricLos+KVdGMg Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iQCVAwUBPxZY8ORRvX9xctrtAQEvKQP9FOA8bFoJ8Y1XHS2BEw09p/7Zo5muq4Ao xvTFCXcYeTVJ47hTcyQEtF3FAd9CDyKmwy8N60dIYhnFU4RDQ5BWpbyaz6euGvP3 9ajx8122z6oE/CUO0cfSzDDjD6wgIDwozomfjqI3hXwAYOMGCpd9kosphtlHRbN9 OuERnYcr15U= =o0Bn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --gKMricLos+KVdGMg-- From lloy0076@adam.com.au Thu Jul 17 19:20:22 2003 Received: from postit.adam.com.au (postit.adam.com.au [203.2.124.173]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.12.9/8.12.9/Debian-3) with ESMTP id h6HBJnoi025792 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:20:22 +0800 Received: from lightning.adam.com.au (lightning.adam.com.au [203.2.124.20]) by postit.adam.com.au (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h6HBKR5X095288 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 20:50:27 +0930 (CST) Received: (qmail 81484 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2003 11:19:49 -0000 Received: from 202-136-96-110.ip.adam.com.au (HELO mordor.middlearth.net.au) (202.136.96.110) by eden.adam.com.au with SMTP; 17 Jul 2003 11:19:49 -0000 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 20:58:49 +0930 From: David Lloyd To: Con Zymaris Cc: linux-aus@linux.org.au, enterprise-linux@lists.linux.org.au, osv-list@lists.osv.org.au Message-Id: <20030717205849.0ca17abc.lloy0076@adam.com.au> In-Reply-To: <20030717001435.GC26076@cyber.com.au> References: <20030717001435.GC26076@cyber.com.au> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.2 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Enterprise-linux] Re: [Linux-aus] National Open Source Industry Cluster Sender: enterprise-linux-admin@lists.linux.org.au Errors-To: enterprise-linux-admin@lists.linux.org.au X-BeenThere: enterprise-linux@lists.linux.org.au X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Such an organisation would be useful to have; you've already identified that there's no need to create another L.A. or AUUG which would be my only concern. DSL -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/Fohxmk7m2JX6ki4RAnxAAJ9Jt+3tJKJSoEhK6UKGVp7HJBipxgCfeYQA 1/OZ7qQKkIohuv8Fn4b+rJE= =f/VX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From conz@cyber.com.au Fri Jul 18 03:40:51 2003 Received: from plum.cyber.com.au (plum.cyber.com.au [203.7.155.24]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.12.9/8.12.9/Debian-3) with ESMTP id h6HJeFoi014212 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 03:40:50 +0800 Received: from vanilla.office.cyber.com.au (vanilla.office.cyber.com.au [192.168.155.226]) by plum.cyber.com.au (8.8.6/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA10640 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 05:40:15 +1000 (EST) Received: by vanilla.office.cyber.com.au (Postfix, from userid 1001) id EE5A157BADD; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 05:40:13 +1000 (EST) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 05:40:13 +1000 From: Con Zymaris To: enterprise-linux@lists.linux.org.au Message-ID: <20030717194013.GD2118@cyber.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Subject: [Enterprise-linux] Linux to Overtake Unix, Leapfrog Windows, Analyst Says Sender: enterprise-linux-admin@lists.linux.org.au Errors-To: enterprise-linux-admin@lists.linux.org.au X-BeenThere: enterprise-linux@lists.linux.org.au X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Bill Claybrook, author of the study (www.aberdeen.com), said the main reasons for this movement are price and performance. "Linux servers on industry-standard Intel- and AMD-based architectures are much less expensive than RISC/Unix servers and offer significant price/performance advantages," between 10 and 40 times, he said. http://sdtimes.com/news/082/story4.htm -- _____________________________________________________________________________ Con Zymaris Level 4, 10 Queen St, Melbourne 03 9621 2377 Cybersource: Unix/Linux, TCP/IP and Web App. Development www.cyber.com.au From raymond@humbug.org.au Fri Jul 18 09:19:03 2003 Received: from diadora.client.uq.net.au (uq-nosferatu.client.uq.net.au [203.101.254.51]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.12.9/8.12.9/Debian-3) with ESMTP id h6I1ISoi017840 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:19:02 +0800 Received: from diadora.client.uq.net.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by diadora.client.uq.net.au (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.4) with SMTP id h6I1Hre4004038; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 11:17:53 +1000 Received: from 202.92.75.130 (SquirrelMail authenticated user raymond) by diadora.client.uq.net.au with HTTP; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 11:17:53 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <59934.202.92.75.130.1058491073.squirrel@diadora.client.uq.net.au> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 11:17:53 +1000 (EST) From: "Raymond Smith" To: , , In-Reply-To: <20030717080608.GA21262@azure.humbug.org.au> References: <20030717001435.GC26076@cyber.com.au> <20030717080608.GA21262@azure.humbug.org.au> X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.6) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [Enterprise-linux] Re: [Linux-aus] National Open Source Industry Cluster Sender: enterprise-linux-admin@lists.linux.org.au Errors-To: enterprise-linux-admin@lists.linux.org.au X-BeenThere: enterprise-linux@lists.linux.org.au X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Anthony Towns said: > I presume union-esque things (like providing assistance to hackers > who're getting screwed over by their employee) are out of scope (the > members will be the businesses doing the screwing over, no?). And there already exists a real union for these kinds of things: APESMA / ITPA (http://www.apesma.asn.au/). Cheers, Raymond -- raymond@humbug.org.au From conz@cyber.com.au Mon Jul 21 08:30:27 2003 Received: from plum.cyber.com.au (plum.cyber.com.au [203.7.155.24]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.12.9/8.12.9/Debian-3) with ESMTP id h6L0Txoi014297 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 08:30:26 +0800 Received: from vanilla.office.cyber.com.au (vanilla.office.cyber.com.au [192.168.155.226]) by plum.cyber.com.au (8.8.6/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA00279; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:29:25 +1000 (EST) Received: by vanilla.office.cyber.com.au (Postfix, from userid 1001) id D643157BADD; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:29:24 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:29:24 +1000 From: Con Zymaris To: linux-aus@linux.org.au Cc: enterprise-linux@lists.linux.org.au Message-ID: <20030721002924.GF26075@cyber.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Subject: [Enterprise-linux] Gartner & NOIE Sender: enterprise-linux-admin@lists.linux.org.au Errors-To: enterprise-linux-admin@lists.linux.org.au X-BeenThere: enterprise-linux@lists.linux.org.au X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: http://www.noie.gov.au/projects/egovernment/Better_Infrastructure/OSS/Other_events.htm OPEN Source software has emerged as a stunning agent of change for enterprise technology today. It will be considered as a viable contender for at least one-third of all large-scale projects by the end of next year. -- _____________________________________________________________________________ Con Zymaris Level 4, 10 Queen St, Melbourne 03 9621 2377 Cybersource: Unix/Linux, TCP/IP and Web App. Development www.cyber.com.au From lesbell@lesbell.com.au Mon Jul 21 08:53:14 2003 Received: from bifrost.lesbell.com.au (ffps.lesbell.com.au [203.35.202.155]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.12.9/8.12.9/Debian-3) with ESMTP id h6L0qeoi016796 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 08:53:14 +0800 Subject: Re: [Enterprise-linux] Gartner & NOIE To: Con Zymaris Cc: enterprise-linux@lists.linux.org.au, linux-aus@linux.org.au X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.5 September 22, 2000 Message-ID: From: "Les Bell" Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:52:33 +1000 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on Bifrost/Les Bell and Associates Pty Ltd(Release 5.0.6a |January 17, 2001) at 21/07/2003 10:53:02 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: enterprise-linux-admin@lists.linux.org.au Errors-To: enterprise-linux-admin@lists.linux.org.au X-BeenThere: enterprise-linux@lists.linux.org.au X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: It's amazing how quickly Gartner pick up on these new trends, isn't it? Best, --- Les Bell, RHCE, CISSP [http://www.lesbell.com.au] From conz@cyber.com.au Mon Jul 21 08:56:37 2003 Received: from plum.cyber.com.au (plum.cyber.com.au [203.7.155.24]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.12.9/8.12.9/Debian-3) with ESMTP id h6L0u6oi017194 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 08:56:37 +0800 Received: from vanilla.office.cyber.com.au (vanilla.office.cyber.com.au [192.168.155.226]) by plum.cyber.com.au (8.8.6/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA00458; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:55:32 +1000 (EST) Received: by vanilla.office.cyber.com.au (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 4A6AE57BADF; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:55:32 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:55:32 +1000 From: Con Zymaris To: Les Bell Cc: enterprise-linux@lists.linux.org.au, linux-aus@linux.org.au Subject: Re: [Enterprise-linux] Gartner & NOIE Message-ID: <20030721005532.GX26076@cyber.com.au> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: enterprise-linux-admin@lists.linux.org.au Errors-To: enterprise-linux-admin@lists.linux.org.au X-BeenThere: enterprise-linux@lists.linux.org.au X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: On Mon, Jul 21, 2003 at 10:52:33AM +1000, Les Bell wrote: > > It's amazing how quickly Gartner pick up on these new trends, isn't it? Ahh Les, you cynic you! ;-)) -- _____________________________________________________________________________ Con Zymaris Level 4, 10 Queen St, Melbourne 03 9621 2377 Cybersource: Unix/Linux, TCP/IP and Web App. Development www.cyber.com.au From leon@cyberknights.com.au Mon Jul 21 10:33:02 2003 Received: from home.dy.cyberknights.com.au (adsl-202-89-169-112.arach.net.au [202.89.169.112]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.12.9/8.12.9/Debian-3) with ESMTP id h6L2WOoi027824 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:33:01 +0800 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by home.dy.cyberknights.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2A1213CD5; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:33:16 +0800 (WST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by home.dy.cyberknights.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CBC613CD5; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:33:15 +0800 (WST) From: Leon Brooks Organization: CyberKnights - modern tools, traditional dedication To: Con Zymaris Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:33:15 +0800 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20030721013717.GH26075@cyber.com.au> In-Reply-To: <20030721013717.GH26075@cyber.com.au> Cc: members@lists.slpwa.asn.au, Linux Australia , enterprise-linux@lists.linux.org.au, osv-list@lists.osv.org.au MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307211033.15029.leon@cyberknights.com.au> X-Scanned-By: AMaViS under virus-immune Mandrake Linux on Leon's workstation Subject: [Enterprise-linux] Re: National Open Source Industry Cluster Sender: enterprise-linux-admin@lists.linux.org.au Errors-To: enterprise-linux-admin@lists.linux.org.au X-BeenThere: enterprise-linux@lists.linux.org.au X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Good morning, Con! I forwarded a copy of your message to the SLPWA members list as per your request, and they are here CC'ed. You will need to join to post there, or rely on the moderator's punctuality and goodwill; it's MajorDomo at the moment but might be MailMan later. I don't know that we need to cross-post *everything* to all lists, I feel inclined to run the conversation between Committees and only crowd the other lists with the interesting details and/or regular updates. On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:37, Con Zymaris wrote: > also, perhaps we might use opensource.org.au as the platform for > such a group. Thoughts? LA would *probably* be in that (my personal hatless opinion, not ex cathedra on behalf of LA or anything), provided you kept prominent links to LA, AUUG and os.o on the front page. Our "urgentest" purposes in acquiring the domain at the time was to keep it out of `enemy' hands and to secure an appropriate common ground for LA and AUUG. Having an independent purpose for it coincides with my ideas about what it should be doing. SLPWA matches your specs except for two items, and both of those choices were taken deliberately. The items in question are `4)' from the first list and '3)' from the second. We chose other than '4)' - Act as a national co-ordinator - Because SLPWA expressly decided to aim to be a State level organisation (a matter of reach, but if not that then because each State's procurement operates differently and SLPWA's focus is business). We chose other than the second '3)' - (not) Be Linux-specific - because Linux is a more widely recognised totem for open source in action than open source itself is, and because in practice each of our businesses leans heavily on Linux. We have discovered through experience with PLUG that this move is reasonably well understood by *BSD people (modulo one zealot whom I can think of). So what would you call such an org? Simply `Open Source Australia' (OSA)? Or something more interesting like `Australian Open Source in Science, Industry and Education' (AOSSIE) and let the `Politics' remain implied)? Cheers; Leon -- http://cyberknights.com.au/ Modern tools; traditional dedication http://plug.linux.org.au/ Committee Member, Perth Linux User Group http://slpwa.asn.au/ Committee Member, Linux Professionals WA http://linux.org.au/ Committee Member, Linux Australia